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Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion?

Posted By: mymcodebee

Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/09/18 08:04 PM

We are ordering a hellcat engine for the Charger in a couple weeks. Just getting other stuff lined up too.

Appears magnum force is pretty backup on there suspension parts. 8weeks from what I hear.

But my main question is the trans option. I am new to these conversions so what is our trans option.

Are people really paying $8K for a 6 speed trans!!
I know this is not a cheap project but was hoping the trans option was going to be a little more reasonable..
Thanks for any help.
Posted By: ric3xrt

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/09/18 10:10 PM

T-56 is about the only thing that will hold up, the TKO 600 needs some help
Liberty Gear magnum XL 6060 (t56 for some of the old timers) starts @ 3550
Rockland Gear T-56/Tranzilla Magnum , not sure what price they are now, the last one I bought was bought for 2016 Hellcat that burned down( fire sale I guess you could call it) paid $1600 for it.

as for 8k, for a trans, if that's what they'll pay then yeah, I know I won't pay that much , hit Ebay there's always a T-56 or Magnum in the 2-3k price range
Posted By: mymcodebee

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/10/18 02:41 AM

Thanks for the info. That sounds much more reasonable!!
Posted By: mymcodebee

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/10/18 02:54 AM

So something like this? This a GM piece. Is there a specific application I need to search for?

Attached picture IMG_1265.JPG
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/10/18 03:15 AM

T56 Magnum is the Hot Rod version of the TR6060. The TR6060 is OEM for Viper, Hellcat, ZR1. The Magnum/TR6060 is stronger than the older T56.

I run a T56 Magnum behind my 3gen Hemi 'Cuda. I bought my setup from pilot bearing to driveshaft from Silver Sport Transmissions.

Attached picture IMG_3011.JPG
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/10/18 03:24 AM

The GM close ratio version TUET11009 is the one I use on my Gen 3. I also use the T56 to small block Quicktime Bellhousing 8074. The pricing went up a lot since I bought mine in 2013! $3200 for trans and $730 for bellhousing.
Posted By: WO23Coronet

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/10/18 05:48 AM

Would the Passon 855 be an option? I think it has a pretty high rating
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/10/18 06:20 AM

Originally Posted By WO23Coronet
Would the Passon 855 be an option? I think it has a pretty high rating


Should work, there are 833s behind Gen3s out there. Just better not be in a hurry to get it...
Posted By: Silver70

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/10/18 07:21 PM

I picked up a viper t56 for project. Rated to 650trq, the new t56 magnums are rated to 700. But for what I paid, I could buy 3 new magnums. They are actually good for a lot more power as long as your not running slicks and dumping the clutch.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/10/18 09:48 PM

Originally Posted By Silver70
I picked up a viper t56 for project. Rated to 650trq, the new t56 magnums are rated to 700. But for what I paid, I could buy 3 new magnums. They are actually good for a lot more power as long as your not running slicks and dumping the clutch.



That works if you know where the trans came from. I didn’t want a used supercar transmission that could have had slicks and plenty of clutch dumping. I know what I’m working with by using a brand new trans.
Posted By: savoy64

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/11/18 10:18 PM

i have a friend that road races with a amc 401 with a richmond 5 speed----he says that if you are at a race and you see a group of drivers standing around talking----one of them is asking if someone has a t56 core-----and these are guys that put the big dollars into their trannys when they race....
Posted By: Silver70

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/12/18 02:04 AM

Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda
Originally Posted By Silver70
I picked up a viper t56 for project. Rated to 650trq, the new t56 magnums are rated to 700. But for what I paid, I could buy 3 new magnums. They are actually good for a lot more power as long as your not running slicks and dumping the clutch.



That works if you know where the trans came from. I didn’t want a used supercar transmission that could have had slicks and plenty of clutch dumping. I know what I’m working with by using a brand new trans.


With that logic, then why didn't you buy a new mopar built crate hemi? I can have this viper t56 built up and still have less into it than a new t56 magnum. Same way I go about engines... rather build my own and know what I have exactly.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/12/18 02:12 AM

Originally Posted By Silver70
Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda
Originally Posted By Silver70
I picked up a viper t56 for project. Rated to 650trq, the new t56 magnums are rated to 700. But for what I paid, I could buy 3 new magnums. They are actually good for a lot more power as long as your not running slicks and dumping the clutch.



That works if you know where the trans came from. I didn’t want a used supercar transmission that could have had slicks and plenty of clutch dumping. I know what I’m working with by using a brand new trans.


With that logic, then why didn't you buy a new mopar built crate hemi? I can have this viper t56 built up and still have less into it than a new t56 magnum. Same way I go about engines... rather build my own and know what I have exactly.


The reman 5.7L Hemi was free, it was merely disassembled for a time study. So no, I didn't buy a new crate to replace a reman engine with 0 miles on it, but I appreciate your concern.
Posted By: Silver70

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/12/18 03:05 AM

Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda
Originally Posted By Silver70
Originally Posted By GoodysGotaCuda
Originally Posted By Silver70
I picked up a viper t56 for project. Rated to 650trq, the new t56 magnums are rated to 700. But for what I paid, I could buy 3 new magnums. They are actually good for a lot more power as long as your not running slicks and dumping the clutch.



That works if you know where the trans came from. I didn’t want a used supercar transmission that could have had slicks and plenty of clutch dumping. I know what I’m working with by using a brand new trans.


With that logic, then why didn't you buy a new mopar built crate hemi? I can have this viper t56 built up and still have less into it than a new t56 magnum. Same way I go about engines... rather build my own and know what I have exactly.


The reman 5.7L Hemi was free, it was merely disassembled for a time study. So no, I didn't buy a new crate to replace a reman engine with 0 miles on it, but I appreciate your concern.


So you paid 3k plus for a trans that will handle twice the power your reman hemi makes? Guess if you get things for free then might as well blow $ on other things you don't really need. Some of us actual pay for our own parts.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/12/18 03:37 AM

Originally Posted By Silver70


So you paid 3k plus for a trans that will handle twice the power your reman hemi makes? Guess if you get things for free then might as well blow $ on other things you don't really need. Some of us actual pay for our own parts.



Yep. thumbs
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/12/18 07:04 AM

Im with Goody on buying a new trans. I respect everyone on a budget and all of that but I just prefer to buy new parts. Brand new stuff gives me piece of mind as reliability is more important to me than horsepower. There is a reason why used stuff is for sale, mostly with an unknown sketchy history. Time is important to me too as it sucks to have the car down waiting for a part. With new parts you just slap it on and go. I actually regret not buying another T56 Magnum last year as it jumped up a couple hundred bucks. If and when my trans goes out I would just throw the new one in and be back on the track while the first trans would get rebuilt.
Posted By: Silver70

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/12/18 08:45 AM

Originally Posted By RylisPro
Im with Goody on buying a new trans. I respect everyone on a budget and all of that but I just prefer to buy new parts. Brand new stuff gives me piece of mind as reliability is more important to me than horsepower. There is a reason why used stuff is for sale, mostly with an unknown sketchy history. Time is important to me too as it sucks to have the car down waiting for a part. With new parts you just slap it on and go. I actually regret not buying another T56 Magnum last year as it jumped up a couple hundred bucks. If and when my trans goes out I would just throw the new one in and be back on the track while the first trans would get rebuilt.


So you'd rebuild the first one if it went out... Why not just buy another new one instead? Isn't that contradicting everything you just said?
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/12/18 08:57 AM

Originally Posted By Silver70
So you'd rebuild the first one if it went out... Why not just buy another new one instead? Isn't that contradicting everything you just said?

I did mention buying a second new trans.
The T56 Magnum currently in my car was brand new and I put all of the miles on it so I know its exact history. Will rebuild it with all new parts as well when the time comes and keep it as a spare. Totally different from buying a used trans from someone else.

Hell, I'll probably do the same thing with my engine, buy another brand new 426 aluminum crate and rebuild the current to keep around ready to go when needed.
Posted By: Silver70

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/12/18 09:07 AM

Originally Posted By RylisPro
The T56 Magnum currently in my car was brand new and I put all of the miles on it so I know its exact history. Will rebuild it with all new parts as well when the time comes and keep it as a spare. Totally different from buying a used trans from someone else.

Hell, I'll probably do the same thing with my engine, buy another brand new 426 aluminum crate and rebuild the current to keep around ready to go when needed.


Whats the difference if you buy a used one and put all new parts in even if it was owned by someone else. What does the history have to do with it if your replacing everything... Used is used!
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/12/18 09:41 AM

It means everything to me. I have no idea if the guy selling me a used trans had previously dropped it or not and it ends up having a cracked case? Why would you sell a used T56 Magnum anyways as they are great transmissions that anyone would want, unless there is something wrong with it and that person selling needed to get rid of it. Used parts work for you and thats awesome! More power to you as well as cash in your wallet. I just personally do not trust any used parts.

With a brand new trans, everything is 100% good which leaves no doubt. Parts also have a finite life span as well. Nothing raced and abused lasts forever.
Posted By: Silver70

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/12/18 09:49 AM

Originally Posted By RylisPro
It means everything to me. I have no idea if the guy selling me a used trans had previously dropped it or not? Why would you sell a used T56 Magnum anyways as they are great transmissions that anyone would want, unless there is something wrong with it and that person selling needed to get rid of it. Used parts work for you and thats aweome! More power to you as well as cash in your wallet. I just personally do not trust any used parts.

With a brand new trans, everything is 100% good which leaves no doubt. Parts also have a finite life span as well. Nothing raced and abused lasts forever.


Did you buy your cuda new? Are you sure it wasn't abused previously? laugh2 And btw, even new parts break.

If someone can afford 20k for a hellcat crate engine/harness, then they can afford a new t56 or a built one built beyond what they need. But a viper spec t56 meets the specs needed and most have under 10k miles on them. Bigger problem is the clutch/bellhousing. As quicktime bells designed to fit the earlier cars aren't big enough for a twin disc you would get in a new challenger.
Posted By: WO23Coronet

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/12/18 09:50 AM

If you want to argue for the sake of arguing I guess you have somewhat of a small point, but you're missing (likely on purpose for the sake of arguing) the (I'd say) general consensus of going with a part that you know the history of an rebuilding, vs shelling out big $$$ up front for a used transmission and then having to possibly rebuild it, and then discover that some clown was rugging it, banging it into gear and it now has a split case.
Posted By: Silver70

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/12/18 09:57 AM

Originally Posted By WO23Coronet
If you want to argue for the sake of arguing I guess you have somewhat of a small point, but you're missing (likely on purpose for the sake of arguing) the (I'd say) general consensus of going with a part that you know the history of an rebuilding, vs shelling out big $$$ up front for a used transmission and then having to possibly rebuild it, and then discover that some clown was rugging it, banging it into gear and it now has a split case.


If you look at my first post, you will see I just mentioned an option that would work. The op wanted a cheaper option than spending 8k for a 6 speed transmission. A viper spec t56 is rated for 650trq which is what a hellcrate crate engine makes.

How many people here have bought and used USED 4 speed transmissions... last I checked they don't make them new. You guys seem to be set on using all new stuff, but not everything can be bought new and I use used parts all the time.
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/12/18 10:29 AM

I agree with you on the cost savings on the used stuff no doubt. There is a time factor when you have to refurbish an old viper t56 though. Taking it apart getting things replaced takes time. Not doing so means that you have less reliability.

My Cuda is used but nearly all of the parts I have on it were brand new. One of the reasons why it runs great!
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/12/18 04:29 PM

Originally Posted By WO23Coronet
If you want to argue for the sake of arguing I guess you have somewhat of a small point, but you're missing (likely on purpose for the sake of arguing) the (I'd say) general consensus of going with a part that you know the history of an rebuilding, vs shelling out big $$$ up front for a used transmission and then having to possibly rebuild it, and then discover that some clown was rugging it, banging it into gear and it now has a split case.


beer
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/17/18 03:08 AM

I'm a Tremec Dealer now & can get Brand new T56 Magnum TUET11009's shipped to your door way less than the major online parts vendor. Give me a call for details and pricing!
Posted By: mymcodebee

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/22/18 05:46 PM

So we ordered the hellcat crate yesterday from our local dealer.
From what I understand it comes with a clutch setup..?
Does the setup work with the T56?
Posted By: mymcodebee

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/22/18 05:48 PM

PM sent.
Posted By: Silver70

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/22/18 06:14 PM

Hellcats use a tr6060, basically the same as a t56. You just need to see which bellhousing you'll need based on what trans you use and clutch size.
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/22/18 06:53 PM

PM replied!

Also if anyone wants a quote for T56 Magnums please email me at rylispro@gmail.com as I may not see my PM's as quick.

Just a heads up, I talked to Clay Reynolds at Tremec and he said that for now they will be making both close and wide ratio versions, but will eventually phase out the close ratio 0.80 5th and 0.63 6th TUET11009 & TUET11010 Magnums due to low demand.
Posted By: mymcodebee

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/22/18 08:19 PM

So we've decided on the T56. Will the supplied clutch work with a T56 and the proper bellhousing.
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/22/18 08:36 PM

Do you have a part number for the supplied clutch that you have? I will need to do some research to see if it will fit properly. The T56 Magnums do not come with a clutch or a bellhousing.

Quicktime has several bellhousings that will fit a Gen3. I have RM-8074 behind my car
Posted By: Silver70

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/22/18 10:34 PM

The hellcat crate will have the oem challnger twin disc. Not sure if quicktime makes a bellhousing that is large enough. I did come across this while looking for a bell that would work with a larger twin disc clutch:
http://bwoodyperformance.com/proddetail.php?prod=BBG-BH

The newer challenger have a tall flywheel, stepped, so could cause issues with the bellhousing quicktime offers because of the height of the assembly.
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/22/18 11:49 PM

Hey that info is good to know! Thanks!
I called Holley who owns Quicktime now. The tech checked over part numbers and didn't have one for a hellcat crate to a T56 Magnum. He did state that if need be, they can custom make a bellhousing for any application. Just a matter of paying for it!
Posted By: Silver70

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/23/18 12:51 AM

This is the clutch it will come with:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Mopar-HEMI-Hellcat-clutch-pressure-plate-flywheel-assembly-FREE-SHIPPING/372211748944?epid=871611046&hash=item56a98c9050:g:iuEAAOSwkvFadGiK&vxp=mtr

As you can see the flywheel is raised with a step the disc surface.

I think it would be easier/cheaper in the long run to run something like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Chrysler-Hemi-392-Hays-Billet-Aluminum-Flywheel/112699772891?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Then you can use an off the shelf quicktime designed for a gen 3 hemi and run a clutch like this or step up to the rtx for closer to 1000. This clutch usually runs around 750, but somehow this seller gets them cheaper and I bought one from this seller:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/67010003-HDC-10-5-TWIN-DISC-CLUTCH-UP-TO-800HP-GM-1-1-8-X-26-SPLINE-6913-07/192463847620?hash=item2ccfbd40c4:g:BZ0AAOSwnodajwBw

It would save modifying the firewall also as I don't think one made to run a stock hellcat clutch will clear the firewill pinch weld area... but but not like you don't already have to cut the floor for the t56
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/23/18 01:08 AM

I got a reply from Holley:

So if that is true, it would make sense as that is the taller of the Gen3 Quicktime bellhousings. I can also get good pricing on all of Quicktime's bells so just let me know!

Rm-8077 Gen3 to T56 height =6.465"
RM-8081 Gen3 to T56 height = 7.339"

Good info on the hellcat flywheel Silver70! Nice ebay price as well on the Mcleod 6913-07. Unfortunately I can't match his price.

My second T56 Magnum just came in as well and looks great!

Posted By: Silver70

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/23/18 02:59 AM

The issue with the rm8077 is the starter is on the right side and may interfere with the typical swap headers.
Posted By: Dart451

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/23/18 04:17 PM

I have a extra bell housing from a gen2 viper in the garage. Not sure if it works in this application but worth looking into.
Posted By: Silver70

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 02/24/18 12:22 AM

I looked into that and they don't bolt up... they say they are a small block with 2 added cylinders, but something is different on the pattern.
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Trans option for manual Hellcat conversion? - 03/16/18 04:59 PM

I saw this on sixpackgut's instagram. It is gsnider73's Dakota getting a Hellcat engine

I asked gsnider73 and he did confirm that the bellhousing he's using is an RM-8074. If anyone needs one let me know as I can get good pricing on all Quick Time bells.
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