Scrapping the Apache for the Eagle

Im switching back to the Eagle head. My delima was my Apache port only flowed 20 cfm more than my Eagles that Im running now but the chamber cc is 75 for apache vs 65 for the Eagle. I would lose a whole point of compression.

My next dilema was the Thiteks. I got to flow a set of Thiteks last saturday and they are awesome. On my bench they were within 1-3 cfm of their advertised numbers. But the way they reduce chamber volume is by milling the head. The chamber is 70cc and they mill it .030 to get it to 65. I would think if the valve is in the same location the that gets P to V clearance closer. And I want to try to get my chamber to around 60 or less if possible.

So tonight. All i had was a 45 stone that fit. So with one seat angle and opened the throat a little with a carbide burr. Flow went up 20cfm. Another 5 minutes of messing around got me almost another 10cfm. With the throat at 1.83 the head is flowing right what a stock apache does. Port sounds alot quieter also.

I figure with .020 mill it can give me a nice bump in comp and maybe even outflow the apache. The roof is different in the eagle and may turn out better

I think eagles are the best Hemi head out there. The chamber is magic.

It's great that Eagles are so capable. I figured you'd just get the Apache to 65cc and go. Don't you have a flat piston? Are you going for 13.5.1?

I am a little surprised by this, but the flow bench dont lie. Thanks for sharing

Im at 11-1. if I put the Apache on it would drop to 10. My thought is any hp increase in cfm would be lost with Comp. you would really need to deck the crap out of the apache head to get it down below 65cc.

if your starting fresh like Dustin did and plan for the 75cc chamber then your golden but my pistons were planned for Eagles. they are -13cc slight dish piston.

I had also contemplated getting the thitek porter head. But they have so much extra material I think to design your own port I thought it may take years for me to actually finish them.

so this is my plan of attack. also, when someone asks about the engine I can still say, its just 5.7 heads on a stroker shortblock

Post makes me glad I snagged the CNC Eagles for my build

How much do you want for your apache's ?

I plan to use the valves from mine. I planned on putting them on the shelf for maybe a build later down the road. one head is ported and one isn't

OK, Had to ask

next thing I want to try and big Thanks to Dustin for sending some banged up heads, is stuffing the 03-08 5.7 head with a 6.1 valve. I really think the original 5.7 heads can be an awesome high velocity head which I would think 320cfm around .6 is easily possible because I hit 312 opening the throat probably a little to far

You've got the complete right idea about velocity and the hemi. Small port heads make power.

PM gremlinsteve for more thoughts about that idea...he knows a thing or two about them. He had max ported first gen 5.7 heads on a 6.1 back in 2007.


Another friend made 490rwhp in 2009 with a callies 392 based 5.7, ported 6.1 intake, small headers and a 239/247 112 cam with a factory ECU. Heavy ported 5.7 heads with an oval exhaust port.

Thanks for the info Ray.
I know your bench and my friends are very close.
About your apaches. Could you weld up the chamber some to decrease volume?
Matt

I considered that. but its like bondo. you have to put a lot of weld in then take a lot out. Its not like a wedge head where you might add weld to one area. you might decide you want to weld up both sides of the chamber. Then pay to have it decked. your looking at piles of time and money. The apache intake valves are $60 each. expensive but you can probably get a solid stem replacement much cheaper and have someone fit them in an eagle head.

Here is a set of early 5.7 heads that I picked up over the weekend, they have new seats, cut for 2.100/1.550 valves, ports are huge (required pushrod sleeves) so I doubt that they still have high velocity. I plan to get have them flow tested locally as the claimed flow numbers seemed inflated to me, if they are suitable I will have chambers welded closed and use them.

That's an Eagle on the bench. The port on your early 5.7 is still much smaller. I spy Harlands

Yes you can, 2.14 and 2.18. After seeing the large seat/valve mod on my early 5.7 heads it makes me want to put larger seats in my eagle heads and put the 2.18 valves in them.

http://realstreetperformance.com/Product...40-12330-8.html

http://realstreetperformance.com/Product...80-12332-8.html

Yeah, the guy I bought them from sent them to harland to have them design adjustable rockers for a solid roller set up, they eventually gave up and sent them back to him with a hodge podge of parts and told him if he could make any of it work to let them know what he came up with lol

the 2.18 wont fit on the eagle seat. not even sure if the 2.14 will. it will be near the edge. the 2.18 would be a nice upgrade for the apache I bet. But you will need to plan your piston

I think you would need to change the seats not 100% sure.
Matt

I know 100 percent you have to change the seats to put a valve larger than 2.10 in the eagle heads.
Alex p.......that whole ultra high velocity, low flowing early 5.7 head was cobbled up by Craig at gtp. It has been proven wrong for years. If that were the case, the 6.4 Apache head would be a lot smaller. They went exactly the opposite direction for a reason. I'll trade velocity any day of the week for a properly designed larger csa head that flows 60cfm more. Take your "max ported early 5.7 head and throw it on a 426, then swap out for a set of thiteks with 2.20 vales and MUCH lower velocity numbers and the motor will make 70-80hp more with the thiteks

Im not really sure what your talking about. Who said they were putting the old smaller heads on a 426? and you comparing them to thiteks with a 2.20 valve.

High velocity works. Don't know who you are, what your relationship is with Craig or if you have any more experience than vendor shopping people for information and comparing notes but I'm happy with my small port Eagles. I'd be happy with a worked up set of early 5.7 heads too. No reason for me to own a thitek, ever.

I put my money on that gamble and I know what my expectations are.

I was referring to Alex p's talks about using gen 1 5.7 heads to make more power than larger heads. It's a idea that Craig at gtp swears by. He swears a set of gen1 5.7 heads will make way more power than bigger heads. His philosophy is velocity over flow and csa. Alex knows what I am talking about. If you read his post it will make more sense to you

I was working on and porting 5.7 and 6.1 heads before even gremlin Steve Alex. Steveo is a bright dude and a helluva guy. But The thought that a motor won't benefit from a larger better flowing port with a larger csa is silly. I only speak of what i personally know to be true from experience.

Sixpack.....bes did something similar to what you are talking about doing with their engine masters 417ci motor. 2.19 intake valves with new seats.....they actually sunk the intake valves a good bit to help with p to v. Wouldn't milling the head and sinking the valves on the apaches be a bit easier?

I just figured out who you are. You've said enough.

330 on Craig's bench, 310 through the Hilborn. I'll go find the printout if you'd like.



Send me some thiteks or apaches. I'll run em back to back with my early 5.7 heads and will report back the numbers.

Lol.....I actually would if I had a set of each not in use ......on my 423 a set of thiteks was worth 40 horsepower at the wheels over ported 6.1s with stock valves. The thiteks had 2.20s. I still love your duster.....One of these I will get to see that beast

That's impressive! The next time I blow a motor I'll be looking for a different set of heads.

What part of Texas are you in? Austin? We'll have to meet up and talk cars.

Hey brother, we have actually talked quite a few times before. I am here in Houston too. You were intrested in buying my 440" rotating assembly I had for sale for a while. I'll pm you number