Cuda Art Morrison Multilink Independent Rear Suspension??

Has anyone installed an Art Morrison multilink independent rear suspension into an E body (i.e. Cuda or Challenger)? I know these are not cheap, but all that I've read about them are that they ride great, handle gobs of power, and there aren't any noises that come from the rear end. My concern is how do they install in an E body and what is the process to a successful install?

I would like to hear the good, and the bad with anyone with any experience with Art Morrison's IRS.

Thank you,

Mark

I would say you would be better asking this question on one of the pro-touring sites, most of the posters in this section have stock based suspension systems.
If you don't mined what does a setup like that cost?

Art Morrison's stuff takes his frame rails.

From what I can tell It starts at 11,430 and that includes the rear frame clip, Suspension, S60 with gears, axels brakes.

Damon

Wasn't there another system like this out there? Heidts has one but there was another that I cannot remember the name.

http://www.schwartzperformance.com/chassis/

Heidit has one as well, a guy here has it in a notch back barracuda , I'm not sure if it's on the road yet.

I did a search and didn't find any topic concerning this IRS suspension, so I thought I'd ask and start a thread here.

From what I can tell, the Art Morrison IRS is a multilink design of their own. It uses GM spindles, but the rest of the design is based on 3 years of development by the team at AME. There's also the Strange Dana 60 center section, so this IRS can take some serious horsepower as we all know what kind of punishment the straight axle setup can take. I did call AME and I was told that with the Dana 60 center section and the GM based spindles, this IRS can handle 1,200 horsepower out of the box without twisting up the attachment links. AME also told me that yes, they recommend that their subframe is used as the stock E body frame rails are not made out of thick enough material to handle the power. O.K., that's scary right there. The Dana 60 center section is what caught my eye as I was not crazy about the Jaguar based Heidt's setup as I know they are not known for being able to handle huge horsepower, and from the little bit that I've read about them, they are pretty noisy because of all of the heim joints. In a race car that's O.K., in a street car, well, at least not in my street car. I also didn't want to consider installing a Ford 9" in my Mopar -- I just don't want to do it even though I know it's a good crown and pinion -- not a Ford hater or anything, I just want to keep the car as Mopar parts friendly as possible.

Price wise I'm not sure -- I think it starts at $11,500 and goes up from there. Yes, I know it's a lot of ching, and I know it's going to limit how many they sell for sure, but I was just wondering if anyone else out there has done such a thing or knows of someone who is installing these in an E body so I can know if it's a total hassle or really worth it? I can read all kinds of reviews about this in Hot Rod about installing them in Camaros and other GM rides, but all of these articles never say anything bad about any new product, and I was just wondering if I could get the real scoop on this piece. It sucks to reinvent the wheel if someone else has blazed a trail and knows the answers.

If anyone can help me out give a shout.

Not gonna find any users here, I am pretty sure. You might find someone that knows someone that has it though.

Funny thing is that if I had the $11.5k and lets say another $1k or so to install that IRS, I'm not sure that I would just from all the downtime of having my car in the shop again.
I was all about installing every aftermarket piece out there a few years ago but now, not so much.
Even if installed I would imagine the handling would improve greatly, I am not sure if the fun factor would increase?

Very nice piece though

tom's purple valiant looks like a better and better deal AS IS every day as threads like this pop up. only a few dollars separate the items, and the valiant comes with "no sweat equity" involved !

It's a amazing looking suspension system and if you are looking at competing at the top level of the pro-touring world it is problem almost mandatory at this stage. For me if it got to the point that I wanted to go that fast I would just buy a new GT 350 and leave my old cars at a reasonable level of performance.

At what point does such a modification produce "greatly improved" handling or ride is what I think a number of people would ask. Similarly, since it comes of regularly in this forum, what rule legality issues would such a huge change from stock create.

For real world feedback on such a conversion, ask the Camaro crowd over to protouring.com. No doubt several of them have already attacked such a conversion.

i know i should just buy that car, its so cool. great little ripper.

That suspension looks like a work of art by fabrication. I wonder what it does to overall weight and track times?

I personally would be more likely to spend my time and money on massaging the body for bigger rubber, aero improvements and HP.

It costs 12K so it must be awesome. And the 250 lbs it adds only makes the handle better to.

I would say the biggest downside is the added weight, besides the cost. I would also say while I have been pondering a mopar IRS set-up for years, I would say this one is likely one of the better designs compared to other vendors decades old Jag/vett iterations, IMO. The choice of a Dana 60 also IMO is odd, a viper does pretty well in handing situations with a much lighter/smaller alum dana 44. I would guess they might in future add to the center sections offered. The price point would serve them better if they could get it to the $8K range, again imo. It has been well received by the few using it on the PT scene that I can see, but not sure ithey plunked down $12K either.

I would say that suspension might add some weight, but I would guess at the most 50lbs over a dana 60 with leaf springs.
The price is $13800 ......I priced one out with the exchange rate to Canadian dollars, shipping, border duty and GST and it would cost me over $22000 Canadian to have that thing sitting in my garage.

Just do it, then! When will you have the opportunity again? That's what I told myself when I bought the Red Brick.

I was strongly debating it and considering making the plans when you did too. Lol.

My guess is a whole lot more, are you forgetting the frame clip needed for the IRS?

I would think that it would add weight in the right area though as most iron block cars are what a 60/40 split front/rear?
This IRS may just make it easier for a car to be 50/50.

Too bad it takes a lot of mass off the wallet as well haha!

I'm just guessing off the last dana 60 I moved still had the leaf springs and all the hangers, u bolts, shocks, ect attached to it. All that stuff must have weighed 300lbs, that IRS setup and associated mounting hardware can't be that much more. I could be wrong but I don't think I'm to far off.

An empty 60 housing weighs less than 70# I can ship them UPS and not pay the overweight fees

Well, if adding weight to the back to get 50/50 is all that you're concerned about fill the trunk with concrete.

Yeah, I know foolish, but putting a heavy rear suspension in to accomplish the same goal is about as foolish too. Now if the heavier rear suspension markedly improved the handling and ride, and that is the question at hand for an E body here, then go for it.

But less weight generally helps handling more than increasing weight.

I don't know where y'all are finding prices and weights, but the picture I see doesn't show brakes or shocks or springs, which will add to the weight. I also don't know why one would compare it to a stock Dana 60 setup either, not what I'd choose in a handler myself. In fact one could make a very cogent argument that the 8 3/4 is a better choice to ease gear changes for different type races and lighter in weight and most like more than strong enough for a handler.

I agree on all your above points on the AM IRS.

I was comparing it to a Dana 60 because the Art Morrison IRS uses a Dana 60 or strange 60 centre section.
8 3/4 rear ends are great for a decent horsepower street build but I think anyone looking at this IRS would be looking at putting some big power through it, as it is rated a 1300RWHP.

I don't usually equate 1300 hp with a handler or enough HP to frag an 8 3/4 for that matter, at least not in this forum. A blindspot perhaps. I dunno how much dead weight this unit might save over a normal Dana, but unsprung weight I can see.

Its sprung weight, and anybody that can put 1300hp to the pavement successfully in a handler is not on moparts, that is way beyond anything we can even dream about. Few if any chose an IRS for drag use, so that would not have been their market design target. A 9" or QC would have mt first choices if I was in their shoes. Strange.

Couldn't have put it better myself!

Interesting how the magazines almost never tell you about weight INCREASES from the latest gadget!!

Speaking to a few folks that have made the jump, from leafs to 3 link to the AM IRS; they have all said that the improved handling and stability were astronomical and that it was well worth the investment and done again, they'd skip the 3 link setup.

p.s. waiting on a text reply on chassis weight changes across the last 2 if not all 3.

How many of them have jumped from a Mopar rear suspension to IRS?

because comparing Ford/GM rear suspensions is moot.

Here is the message from the horses' mouth:
"The AM its added about 40 lbs over the 3 link with floater. I don't know about leaf vs 3 link, but the 3 link has less Unsprung weight. You can feel it even driving in a parking lot! Somewhere I have the 3 link weight. I think the leaf springs are 45 lbs each, most of it Unsprung."

So long and short, 40 lbs of sprung weight all in the rear. Not a bad bit and I'm thinking with the new Alloy housings hitting the market, maybe a few more lbs could be lost.

I don't really think the difference between GM/Ford Mopar makes a whole bit of difference, as the weight differences shouldn't be too more varied that the half dozen spring and rear options we all have. Everyone is going to be a bit different from 8.25's, 8.75's and Dana's. Not to mention 3 leaf packs, 7 leaf packs, etc.

I think he was suggesting the geometry of the mopar leaf system is better to begin with when compared to GM/Ford, not any weight issues. Furthermore, I suspect dialing in/adjustments with an IRS vs a 3 link, would find the 3 link much more adaptable. IRS IMO would shine best with unfortunately the more complicated and heat sensitive inboard brake set-up, not offered yet, as I can see. I would also guess some of the AM IRS weight gain could be mitigated because it is first a somewhat universal design, and therefore needs beef to be a solution for all, but I might be wrong.

yes. the geometry.

If your source is comparing the handling of a GM/Ford coil sprung 4 link setup then yeah I can see why they are impressed.

We also have to consider anyone spending big bucks on this type of setup will automatically say how great is is (smart they were). Bucks = happiness for many. We all work hard for our bucks. Now if an actual heavy hitter racer who had driven different setups in the same car would say WOW! what a setup, then it really holds some weight for me. So many times I see the average hot rodder wanna be say good things about their new toy. The more expensive the more they overstate. Just human reaction for many. I get it.

Bought a set of Fox 2.0 shocks with the resivours for my 2006 Ram 4x4 diesel. Hundreds of positive things on the net about ride improvements on road. Just installed them. The ride is super stiff. The tire leaves the road on small sharp bumps and sometimes the truck moves sideways. Scary. I have to pay attention at all times just in case. Great more stress in life:-( Can't wait to take them off and send them back.

NOT saying this is one of those things but i'm in my skeptical corner.

Damon

Who valved those Fox's?

Supposedly custom for Thuren.

Let some nitogen out of them.

Did you couple those with his coils? If not email him and tell him they suck, and let him make it right.

I did email him and he was responsive. He asked for picts which I haven't given him yet. My fault. Rained bad during the holiday break and I'm overload with work to do it during the daylight hours. It will get solved. Springs are the Thuren 2" soft ride. They were installed at the same time along with the Carli ball joints.

Also called Fox and they will do 1 re-valving for free!

I asked about letting out the nitrogen and they were not so hip? Don't know why? Should of asked more.

Damon

It needs to monitored equalized with a gauge so each pair is equal. I bet the rear is traping with stock overloads.

"We also have to consider anyone spending big bucks on this type of setup will automatically say how great is is (smart they were). Bucks = happiness for many." Coming from a guy from the "Show Me" State.

Two of the drivers are multi time SCCA National champs and competitively road race (and win) across the country. And the chassis' have evolved from leaf to 3 link and now IRS over the past 4 decades. I'm confident they know what they are doing.

Letting off some nitrogen often softens up the damping a bit and is something you can try without send the shocks in, but the service people at Fox would not tell you to do it as it is a bit bush league, re-valving is the proper way do it.

Realistically the Mopar (and particularly Hotchkis) leafs can do amazingly well up to a certain point of racing. Eventually if you want to compete at the highest level with the fastest competition, it's time to move up to a 3 link or even IRS. I haven't won the lottery, so no 16K rear suspension for me, but if you have the $$ and want the best, sure go for it. Just makes it all the sweeter when I can beat a guy(or gal) who bought one, while I'm still using the cheap stuff.

Bingo. The Hotchkis kit is better than most folks can drive it. The higher end stuff adds unneeded complexity and expense unless you are in that top tier of drivers competing at the highest levels.