Bagged cars and tires sizes

These are two unrelated questions, but I have been gone for a while from the hobby and appear to be pretty out of touch with the what's new out there.
Since I'm recently single again, I've been watching more car stuff on tv. All the shows are new to me, with the exception of maybe Overhaulin'. On one of the shows, it seems almost automatic and universal for them to bag the car. I know nothing about that. A quick look thru the posts, and I don't see much talk about bagging E's or B's and I wonder why. Does a bagged car handle better? How does it compare in price? How about the ride?

As for tires, the Chally needs a set. I have 7 and 8 inch by 17 torque thrusts, and never really cared for the smaller diameter tires I chose. IIRC, it's a 215/40 and 275/40. I'm thinking something closer to the stock size tire diameter with 17's would look better than my current set up. Is there a tried and true combo, say 225/45 x 255/45 that is a nice balance between bigger rims and tires that fit the cars era better? Looking for opinions on tire, pics would be cool too if you have them.

The air bag suspension is one way to go. Manufacturers supply these shows with their stuff to get exposure for their products. It may be good stuff, but do you ever see race cars on air bags?
There are many ways to improve the suspension for better handling. Some guys here have gone with replacement setups that use alternatives to torsion bars and leaf springs. These setups have their good and bad points. Keep in mind though that a well thought out and optimized stock based setup is very hard to beat. Firm Feel and Hotchkis offer all sorts of bolt-in replacement parts that may have your head spinning. Myself, I do prefer to keep my Mopar suspension style intact. I did reinforce several key stress points, add better shocks and anti-sway bars, etc. Still, looking at my setup, it still resembles a factory arrangement.

The stock suspension setup is really awesome when you add some components that are engineered to handle. It isn't necessary to start from scratch, and recently while watching Graveyard Cars I watched them put a Magnum Force coil-over setup in the car and Mark Worman proceeded to explain that the "stock" suspension setups were ponderous and didn't handle well, which simply isn't true if they are properly updated.

I am a huge fan of Hotchkis products for this purpose and have a lot of them on my 69 Satellite wagon. They have made an incredible difference in the car's handling. Firm Feel makes great stuff for this purpose too.

All of that being said, I would be really interested to see someone airbag an E Body or B Body and then accurately test it out and see how it performs relative to other suspension options.

Ridetech makes an airbag setup for E Bodies and B Bodies. Here is a link to their B Body Setups: http://www.ridetech.com/store/musclecars/?subcats=Y&features_hash=V298.V328

Comparatively, it isn't too badly priced, but I don't know how well it handles. Their Brand X cars seem to do quite well in autocross competition, but I'm not even sure if those run airbags or their coil overs.

What I can say is that airbag systems have come a long, long way since the 90s when minitrucks were using them and they were junky. My friend just airbagged his Audi A4 using a complete setup from Accuair and I am pretty impressed with it.

Matt Farah from The Smoking Tire YouTube channel recently did a feature on Accuair and their air suspension setups (incidentally using an Audi S4) and it is a good watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTrupjf-QFQ

I don't think airbags are for the faint of heart or light of wallet, but I would like to see someone try it on a Mopar.

Compared to improved stock systems, air bag suspension are considerably more expensive. However, they also have a great deal more capability other than simply dropping frame at a car show. Modern bag systems use controllers that allow all four corners of a car to be set independently of each other and be adjusted from the driver's seat to not only set ride height but spring and dampening rates as well. The bags are tough enough for use in industrial applications, so aggressive automotive use doesn't really hurt them at all.

The reason you don't see them in strictly enforced rule racing is because of the driver adjustability capability they have often oversteps allowed mods by many sanctioning bodies. They are used in unlimited type competitions like Optima Ultimate Street car, where rules are very open. They have demonstrated they are very capable suspension systems when, like any other system, they are set up optimally for the task at hand. However, they can be tuned without a physical change of components like other mechanical systems so they have the advantage of being able to quickly change to preset programs or custom set ups. Compare this to a system that requires you to crawl under the car to change a sway bar link point or click a knob on a shock and you can see why some value the remote adjustability. Like some performance mods, there are a % of users don't utilize them to their full capacity and simply use them because they are new and expensive.

Just my opinion but air bags are not reliable and when they go it's usually not a good spot. A buddy burned up a 40 ford coupe from a failure of the air bags it dropped to the ground and the car caught fire.

The only 'bagged' suspension mods I can recall are on GM coil spring drag cars. They'd add a rear air bag to one side to help with torque steer. I've seen bagged suspensions being installed on TV but have to wonder if they offer any sort of give or flex like a coil or leaf spring does. Sorts of reminds me of air shocks.

On a Mopar, the shock mount points are not designed to handle full suspension loads... short of a full custom cage or very heavy reinforcements I think the bags would want to twist and crack the frame. On a coil spring GM or Audi(?) different story.

Mopars dont need GM stuff to work good, if the bagged low look is all that matters just adjust the torsion bars down until you sit on the bump stops. A car needs to be able to be driven IMO not parked for a lawn chair gathering.

http://www.ridetech.com/garage/1973-dodge-challenger/

I would not hesitate to do airbags on a mopar, can't see why it could not be set up to ride and handle great. If you do go ahead with it post the install and how it works out for you.

Look deeper into how well that Challenger actually performed.

Even if that particular car did not perform great at some event air bag cars can be made handle very well. When I have some garage space it will be the next type of suspension system I want to try, I have always liked the idea of a car that you could drop down for racing and lift back up for the ride home on the poor roads we have here.
The headers on my 69 Valiant are less than 4" off the road and the car is still not as low as I would really like it, I can't see how changing from a torsion bar as the spring to an airbag with the same front end geometry would ruin the handling of the car.
I have a 68 Valiant that I'm going to build and I'm going to bag it when the time comes, I already have 3 torsion bar front end A bodies and really don't need to build another, I would love to see the original poster put one in a car and have some feed back on the system.

Putting the cars weight on the stock shock mounts is recipe for failure imo. Go for it, brace everything up and call Magnumforce.

I'm sure just about everybody who posts in this section is aware that you should not use the stock shock mounts to support the suspension, we only got about 6 replies into this thread before it was brought up again.
What would you like me to ask Magnum force? It's long distance from Canada to call and I don't have a phone plan.

As far as the stock shock mounts go we all know they are not designed to take the full load. But... basically you still use torsion bars to keep support the lower control arms and set them at the lowest stance. This way you always get some support from them. Still you need brace etc.

I'm in the process to bag my Challenger and do many other changes so will still take at least another year before it's done. It was a street / strip setup with a 725hp Hemi / 4-speed minitubbed etc. but as I want to enjoy it more on the street I'm changing to something (hopefully) more street friendly.

Still the same engine but with more modern roller cam to lower the rpm's
Add Efi
Tremec T56 magnum 6-speed manual with .5 6th gear ratio
18 and 20" rims with modern tires
14" bear brakes
Ridetech suspension for lower stance but capable of our sometimes bumpy roads
Isis wiring system
Etc.

Compared to some other brands it's not possible to really drop it on the street with ridetech. Guess the difference between lowest and highest stance is about 4" but it's nice to have some adjustement possibilities.

In short, stil have no idea on how it drives with bags lol

Ask Goody about his experience with Air Ride....

I think it can be made to work but the owner needs to know the pitfalls (mounting points mentioned) and ensuring enough clearance around the bag when the suspension/steering is cycled.

Having the car already minitubbed and rolling on relative big (29.5") rear tires (so axle sits high in the car) I already knew I had to change a lot. As in removing stock rear shock mounts, upgrading front shock mounts and altering the suspension mounting points in the rear. If I rememebr correct they (ridetech) wants 13" length of the shocks while in my situation I only had about 9"... lol

Meanwhile it sits all fine for now with correct lengths, geometry of the bars etc. A bit busy though under the car with those arms, dana, swaybar so have to figure something out exhaust wise later.

...on a car that was slammed together in 30 days and wasn't safely drivable when presented.

Using bags correctly is no different than using coil overs correctly. Tuning them is not radically different either, except you don't have to change the spring or click a knob every time you want a rate change. Will I ever use them, no, I'm too much of a cheapskate to fork over the money to convert. But they have evolved far beyond OTR trucks and low riders.