Has anyone had Hotchkis work on their car?

I'm about to take my Satellite to Hotchkis for some suspension & steering analysis and upgrades. I was wondering if anyone else had brought their car into Hotchkis for work like this.

I'm looking forward to getting my car back into Autocross mode!

Jim

My Dart is there right now. They seem good to work with and want only the best for your vehicle. They're easy to communicate with as well.

Nope, no one

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post1592870

If I had the bux they'd be having my Cuda.

And don't forget Tomswheels Valiant!

But its always great to meet folks face to face and take care of their cars. We are all car guys and love to have the opportunity to make customers cars into the vehicles of their dreams!

Saw your Satellite over at North Hollywood Auto and saw the stuff you went through.

I didn't give me a good impression of those headman shorty headers at all. That was a mess.

And something with the clocking on the long pitman arm?

Jim, what is the milage you are putting on that car per year?

That facility is in North Carolina. The one JF and Muu are talking about is in Santa Fe Springs, California.

Both facilities are top notch. I put in a lot of hours at both

Steve,

I'm not putting many miles on the car at all. Probably less than 6,000 miles a year.

The headers you saw (if you saw the new ones) were the same part # that I've had on there since 2006. The older headers had reached end of life so I got a new set, same kind. Those headers had fit the car and its low ride height very well for almost a decade!

But something happened with the car's suspension about 12-18 months ago and it's gradually gotten worse and worse. The ride height is messed up and it pulls to the right.

In the past 6 months here's what new: Headers, Firm Feel stage 3 box, Pitman & Idler arms, and LCA bushings.

We'll see what Hotchkis has to say.

Jim

Oh - regarding the clocking on the pitman arm, here's what I think happened:

Firm Feel's own fast-ratio pitmans aren't keyed, so when they assembled the Stage 3 box I received, I don't think they looked too closely at how the output shaft was aligned. I had an older fast ratio pitman that was keyed, and when it was installed it was off by about 15 degrees, preventing the toe-in to be set properly. Rather than fight it I bought a new pitman from Firm Feel.

I still have my other fast ratio pitman arm, and it's in good shape. Maybe someone can get some use out of it.

Jim

I was not impressed thatthe headereds we severerly cracked and had cracked before and repaired. And it did not look like there was hitting contact at the headpipe to the ground.

TTI or Thorely don't do that without major impacts. I scrap hit my tti's a lot and have no issues.

And the head pipe flange was in a totally different location. That cost you a bunch of money/labor to redo the headpipes.

But those Headman shorties were the only thing out there in 2006 . And you had no idea they changed/no quality control on the headpipe flange.

What part number headers are you using?

What's the expected lifespan of headers? I've never expected much from a set. Close to a decade seemed about right.

I did not realize that they changed the location of the pipe like that! I thought the mismatch was due to other factors.

FYI:

The part number of the headers is: HED-78506

Update: Hotchkis has the car and will be installing the following:

Upper Control Arms
Steering Rods (apparently these are recommended with the new UCAs)
Adjustable Strut Rods
Shocks

I look forward to driving a nice handling car again!

I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Jim

Did you see my Dart there?

No, I didn't see the Dart, at least I don't recall. I was in and out of the garage area pretty quickly. Most of the time was talking to Rob in sales about the work to be done.

Jim

Is that the Dart they advertised for sale on Craiglist? I thought $850 was pretty cheap even by SoCal standards.

If they're going to flip it, at least make some real bucks on it! $900!

So any progress pics ?

Pics: I'm not close enough to stop by and take any. I wonder if I can ask them to take a few.

We will get some up at the end of the week. From what I can tell (I'm not at the shop this week but I have access to the media drive) at a minimum the front suspension is installed.

Dan - thank you.

I got the call from Hotchkis today that the car is done, and according to them it's handling 100% better! I can't wait to drive the thing. Probably pick it up later this week.

Also - I'd like to say thank you to Rob & Corey at Hotchkis for really taking the time to understand what the car needed and address its specific problems. They explained everything clearly over the phone and did not rush me when I was asking questions. That level of customer support is rare and appreciated.

Jim

Not sure why you are questioning Hotchkis? The work that has shown with a couple of the documented build is top notch. The guys can fabricate as well as weld. I'd be comfortable with them working on my car. Now - If they only would open a midwest location - we'd be talking!

Not sure why you are questioning Hotchkis? The work that has shown with a couple of the documented builds is top notch. The guys can fabricate as well as weld. I'd be comfortable with them working on my car. Now - If they only would open a midwest location - we'd be talking!

I'll be there tomorrow afternoon. My engine is being dropped off tomorrow and I'm dropping off my new door trim.

They are doing general repair and cosmetic stuff for you too?

Very little. They may get my windows addressed (play/misalignment on the driver side) and stick the trim on.

Got back about an hour ago from dropping off my trim piece. I talked with Rob and Corry again and they're great people. Corry, who does most of the work on the cars, is very knowledgeable and really cares for safety and quality.

JF_Moparts... Your car is ready for pick up.

Another good shot...

Oh, and JF...my buddy runs the same wheels on his Ute.
(You can just see it in the background in this pic)

(In 20" though...they come from TWG who we deal with)

MuuMuu what headers are those?

TTI small block shorties.

Getting excited Samy!

Me too! I need to get some more time in autocrossing though.

Is it done yet?

Is it done yet?

Is it done yet?

I'm wondering the same thing.

It's done, and it's much, much better. The front end feels so planted and when I go over a bump I'm not losing my fillings like before.

However, my car still has some issues that are preventing me from really evaluating the suspension. The steering feel is uneven and I'm not sure why - steering column, steering box, idler/pitman? The idler, pitman, and steering box are all brand new (within last 6 months). I need to sort those out before I give the car a work out. These problems are driving me crazy.

Jim

Did you make a shock change? From what to what?

At one time your car didn't have that uneven steering feel?

Oh - here's what Hotchkis upgraded:

- The Upper Control Arms (from older Magnum tubulars)
- Steering Arms (replaced tie rod ends)
- Adjustable Strut Rods (replaced stock)
- Hotchkis/Fox Front Shocks (I forget what I had in there before but they were nothing special)

The uneven steering feel is new and I don't know what to attribute it to. Before the steering was pulling hard to the right, but aside from that the resistance felt uniform, lock to lock. I am assuming that Hotchkis absolutely knows what they are doing. Therefore, perhaps in fixing the alignment and suspension it's made the remaining "weakest links" more apparent? I just started the car and turned the steering wheel lock to lock a few times and it felt like the idler was hitting the exhaust, but looking underneath it appears to be clearing it. When I turn the steering wheel it sounds like something in the steering column is rubbing on something.

Corey at Hotchkis did say that a bushing in my steering column is worn and he suggested getting a new/rebuilt column. He also said he had to remove my steering wheel and remount it to get it properly centered.

Jim

Did you have someone turn the steering wheel while you looked under the car at the idler ?

And maybe jack up the front so the wheels are off the ground and cycle the steering back and forth again and see what you feel.

You could pull the column and try spinning it around then and see how it feels on it's own, along with grabbing a tire and swinging it left to right with the steering column attached and off to see if you feel anything different. Try and maybe narrow things down some ?

Not yet. With my schedule it's almost impossible for me to do something like that. Aside from bringing it to a mechanic, I have no means to properly lift it and evaluate. I just went out and took some pictures, though. Just found out that I have to post them elsewhere before I can link them here.

You can link them here, it's easy!

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post1799584

Oh, and jacking it up and supporting it with jack stands would do the trick to just cycle things back and forth..

But understand how when things are busy time gets time. (In another month I'll be non stop loading containers again too, luckily I have time like now to do stuff )

Thanks!

Here is the pass side.

Driver's side closeup

Are those metal shavings in the last pic all over the place?

Two of the exhaust clearance. Not great pics but the best I could get with the car on the ground.

I hadn't noticed that. That was the driver's side. I'll have to check it out.

If they are, I wouldn't be too impressed with the workmanship if they left it like that after working on it....

Just a little thing that would bug me as an attention to detail/cleaning up a job after being done.

And sorta looks like there is exhaust clearance...little hard to say for sure. Laying on the ground while someone turns the steering from lock to lock would help too..

I took it for a drive.

First of all, the car drives really nicely. Smooth and very balanced when I was doing a little slalom. It brakes better! I guess the better suspension is allowing the wheels and brakes to do their job better.

At higher speeds it really holds the road nicely.

However, here are the issues I noticed:

1. At low speeds if I turn the wheel 1/2 turn to the right, the wheel gets stuck and will not budge towards a return to center on its own.

2. At low speeds if I turn the wheel 1/2 turn to the left, it drags and reluctantly returns to center.

3. Throughout the lock to lock, there are points where it "sticks" and points where it moves easily. The major sticking points seem to be 1/2 turn in either direction.

I took a video of the car making a right turn (one turn of the steering wheel). I released the wheel to let it center on its own. It turns back a little at first, then it jumps about 1/4 of a turn, and then it gets stuck at the 1/2 point where I had to grab the wheel or else I would have hit the curb.

Of course it doesn't help that I'm leaking exhaust and probably getting CO poisoning while I'm driving. Ahh, old cars!

I had a similar problem with my 69 Barracuda steering arm hitting my Dougs Headers. Very disconcerting, same problems you described. Finally switched it to stock manifolds...

Trying to embed a video:

I am surprised that Corey said to remount the steering wheel to recenter it. Stock Mopar steering wheel/column shaft have a master spline setup and if the wheel isn't centered the tie rods are misadjusted. IOW, you cannot remount the steering wheel to center it.

Glad they have a functioning tech center, their parts to customer process is in some cases "crappy". Ordered 1.5" billet swaybar bushing kit for my front swaybar in November and just got another "postponed" letter from Car ID that it will be another week. I think Milodon was quicker....

It sounds like something in your steering box.
The hydraulic system makes the same power turning left as it does when turning right. It's enough assist to overcome anything sticking in the column.

I need to get the exhaust sorted out and confirm there are no clearance issues. I might just move this to a new thread because we're outside the realm of anything Hotchkis related.

I appreciate the advice so far from all - thanks.

ps - I REALLY hope it's not the box. That's a new unit from Firm Feel and it's not easy to remove & reinstall that thing.

How much caster if any?

The caster is set to +5 degrees.

It may not help, but....
Awhile back after I changed my K member, I reinstalled the steering column and it was slightly out of whack. The outer collar at the firewall and the inner sleeve on the shaft were not centered. The outer shaft was rubbing against the outer collar/firewall plate. This made the steering feel more labored than it should but didn't prevent the steering wheel from returning to center.

Is the center link on correctly? I have heard of them being installed backwards and still fitting, but the geometry gets wacky in turns.

[quote=Frankenduster]It may not help, but....
Awhile back after I changed my K member, I reinstalled the steering column and it was slightly out of whack. The outer collar at the firewall and the inner sleeve on the shaft were not centered. The outer shaft was rubbing against the outer collar/firewall plate. This made the steering feel more labored than it should but didn't prevent the steering wheel from returning to center.

Check this ^ out, I had the same thing happen to me once.

Hotchkis sent me a nice pic of the car at their garage:

If it's not the exhaust I will check that out. The exhaust is leaking now, so I need to get that addressed anyway.

Thanks.

Say, do you know I'd those will clear a fast ratio arms from FFI ? I'm looking to put headers on my 1972 charger 340 and want to upgrade the steering abit?

I think they want to try it, but as far as I know, they won't.