Posted By: MuuMuu101
Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/03/14 05:05 AM
I'm just curious what your preference is between a Manual and Power Steering box for autocrossing, road racing, or spirited driving.
Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties
Posted By: amxautox
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/03/14 05:10 AM
I have power steering with 12 to 1 ratio. A bit quick for the street and road racing, but great for the autocross.
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/03/14 06:22 AM
I had a 16.1 flaming river box on mine before the Borgeson. A road course would've been totally doable. Autox it would've be easy to get behind IMO. I had 275's on the front and it wasn't that bad at all.
Posted By: 71autoxr
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/03/14 07:21 AM
I didn't vote because it is a loaded question. If it is a multi purpose car I would vote for power steering. In this case multi purpose would be casual driving, along with occasional autocross, road race etc. If it were a dedicated, purpose built car I would choose manual for road race car, but probably still power for autocross. My Dart has 16:1 manual and it will never see anything more spirited than a city street, but I do love how it feels. The Challenger has fast ratio pitman, with a power box, and has done both autocross and track days. See if someone local will let you drive their car with a power/manual and see which one you like. I'll leave the keys for the Dart if you can make it to Phoenix!!!
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/03/14 07:45 AM
Quote:
I didn't vote because it is a loaded question. If it is a multi purpose car I would vote for power steering. In this case multi purpose would be casual driving, along with occasional autocross, road race etc. If it were a dedicated, purpose built car I would choose manual for road race car, but probably still power for autocross. My Dart has 16:1 manual and it will never see anything more spirited than a city street, but I do love how it feels. The Challenger has fast ratio pitman, with a power box, and has done both autocross and track days. See if someone local will let you drive their car with a power/manual and see which one you like. I'll leave the keys for the Dart if you can make it to Phoenix!!!
It's not a loaded question, I'm just curious what people think, although I've never driven a manual steering car. There's no right or wrong I'm looking for.
And I've seen your Dart before. We talked in person at Fall Fling 2 years ago. Hopefully I'll be able to get my Dart ready for the track day at the next Spring Fling. I'm still debating which way I want to go with my Dart after I get my car on the ground again. After next summer I'm not sure if I want to stick with all purpose vehicle or dedicated race car I can drive to the track.
Posted By: 71autoxr
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/03/14 05:27 PM
Quote:
And I've seen your Dart before. We talked in person at Fall Fling 2 years ago. Hopefully I'll be able to get my Dart ready for the track day at the next Spring Fling. I'm still debating which way I want to go with my Dart after I get my car on the ground again. After next summer I'm not sure if I want to stick with all purpose vehicle or dedicated race car I can drive to the track.
I remember. If you have the space and the tools and a column adapter you can always swap from one to the other if you are not happy the waynit is set up. The ratio in a manual box makes a world of difference. The offer to drive my dart is a outstanding offer. Besides, phoenix is really nice this time of year.
Posted By: jon01
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/03/14 05:43 PM
I'm going through the same questions...have the stock box rebuilt and add fast ratio arms or get a Firm Feel manual box with the faster ratio guts or a Flaming River box.
Leaning towards a FR box, cheaper (500 @ Speedway vs 675 for FF with column adapter) and a bolt in. Some say they are hard to steer at low speeds with bigger tires but it'd be worth it to have everything new.
Borgeson is off the radar at twice the price of a FR.
Leaning towards a FR box, cheaper (500 @ Speedway vs 675 for FF with column adapter) and a bolt in. Some say they are hard to steer at low speeds with bigger tires but it'd be worth it to have everything new.
Borgeson is off the radar at twice the price of a FR.
Posted By: goldduster318
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/03/14 11:43 PM
I have the borgeson box - love it. I do need to do the shimming to it as mine is a little off - but the driving experience is quite good.
Posted By: ahy
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/04/14 01:29 AM
I voted power... fairly fast ratio without excess effort in a multi purpose car. Experienced Auto X'ers also seem to mostly run power. The FF power box also has pretty good "feel".
Posted By: ntstlgl1970
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/04/14 03:21 AM
I have a FR manual box in mine and it's not bad unless you are trying to parallel park. 265 section tires on the front.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/04/14 02:53 PM
I'll be keeping a power box in mine.
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/04/14 05:00 PM
Quote:Quote:
And I've seen your Dart before. We talked in person at Fall Fling 2 years ago. Hopefully I'll be able to get my Dart ready for the track day at the next Spring Fling. I'm still debating which way I want to go with my Dart after I get my car on the ground again. After next summer I'm not sure if I want to stick with all purpose vehicle or dedicated race car I can drive to the track.
I remember. If you have the space and the tools and a column adapter you can always swap from one to the other if you are not happy the waynit is set up. The ratio in a manual box makes a world of difference. The offer to drive my dart is a outstanding offer. Besides, phoenix is really nice this time of year.
Thank you. I wouldn't be able to make a trip out there till late March or early April at the earliest. If I were to ever go manual I'd try getting a 16:1 ratio from Firm Feel or something.
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/04/14 05:22 PM
If the chassis weight is low enough to not fatigue the driver, manual steering is one less thing to fail. However, you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a modern car or racecar for that matter that doesn't have some sort of power assisted steering.
Posted By: jon01
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/04/14 05:51 PM
Sorry for the hijack MuuMuu but what would you consider low enough Dan?
This is going in my 68 Coronet wagon with a 512/TKO600. Already has your springs out back and some misc goodies up front. I have to go manual to run the Procharger…so hardly a light weight. 245 front tires.
This is going in my 68 Coronet wagon with a 512/TKO600. Already has your springs out back and some misc goodies up front. I have to go manual to run the Procharger…so hardly a light weight. 245 front tires.
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/04/14 05:55 PM
Automatic tranny? Manual steering
Manual tranny? Power steering
I would prefer manual tranny, manual steering, but when the going gets spirited the power steering is welcomed.
Manual tranny? Power steering
I would prefer manual tranny, manual steering, but when the going gets spirited the power steering is welcomed.
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/04/14 06:04 PM
Quote:
Sorry for the hijack MuuMuu but what would you consider low enough Dan?
This is going in my 68 Coronet wagon with a 512/TKO600. Already has your springs out back and some misc goodies up front. I have to go manual to run the Procharger…so hardly a light weight. 245 front tires.
I would suggest you look into something like what we are concocting for Kevin's Dart, so that your under hood space remains unaffected.
For example, My wife's dart at 3150 has manual steering and a 255 front tire. Quite a bit of low speed effort and the feedback can be a bit troublesome for her in tighter mid speed corners, as the caster begins to work, and the steering attempts to straighten on throttle input, steering effort increases drastically. I'm a pretty healthy guy, and event I have to be mindful of it.
In another point, a friends 2500lbs Falcon went through a "engineering overhaul" (he is an aerospace engineer). Being a gorilla of a guy, he figured 8:1 manual would be manageable; after one race he immediately went back to power assist. We all thought it was hilarious, he was WHIPPED and had massive blisters on his hands.
IMO, manual steering is good/great for lightweight, small tire cars (go-karts, Formula F/Vee). Anything bigger than that, and you should be looking to power assisted steering.
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/04/14 06:14 PM
Tim went thru the entire progression on his red Valiant. He started off with a stock manual box, switched to a fast ratio manual box, then finally ended up with PS.
With big tires up front, and a bunch of caster and camber dialed in for handling, the manual box is just too much work to drive on a regular basis.
With big tires up front, and a bunch of caster and camber dialed in for handling, the manual box is just too much work to drive on a regular basis.
Posted By: HUSTLESTUFF
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/06/14 10:41 AM
Posted By: cdoublejj
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/06/14 02:34 PM
this thread is a great read. i was watching,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8H1bFE_hyE
they mention 14:1 not being toooo touchy @ 3 turns lock to lock. does that mean 3 turns or really 6 turns? then again i'm sure that changes from car to car and setup to setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8H1bFE_hyE
they mention 14:1 not being toooo touchy @ 3 turns lock to lock. does that mean 3 turns or really 6 turns? then again i'm sure that changes from car to car and setup to setup.
Posted By: BigBlockMopar
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/06/14 03:29 PM
Lock-to-lock is the same in any car.
3 turns L-L is 1.5 turn from center either way.
3 turns L-L is 1.5 turn from center either way.
Posted By: Sxrxrnr
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/06/14 07:01 PM
Quote:
I have the borgeson box - love it. I do need to do the shimming to it as mine is a little off - but the driving experience is quite good.
What was the reason that you had to do a bit of shimming. Could you explain the process to do so. I am dealing with toe alignment issues since installing Borgeson and about to install a replacement unit to find if issues resolve.
If unsuccessful may too have to consider shimming.
Posted By: HUSTLESTUFF
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/07/14 07:47 AM
Here are some Mustang guys doing it for $200.
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mod-custom-forum/787114-best-200-mod-ever-eps-7.html
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mod-custom-forum/787114-best-200-mod-ever-eps-7.html
Posted By: dangina
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/07/14 10:01 PM
Quote:
Here are some Mustang guys doing it for $200.
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mod-custom-forum/787114-best-200-mod-ever-eps-7.html
cool write up!
Posted By: cdoublejj
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/07/14 10:10 PM
Quote:
Lock-to-lock is the same in any car.
3 turns L-L is 1.5 turn from center either way.
so i if want to go auto xing or canyon carving i might want fewer turns lock to lock? or just learn how to turn the steering wheel faster?
Posted By: jcc
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/07/14 11:41 PM
Quote:Quote:
Lock-to-lock is the same in any car.
3 turns L-L is 1.5 turn from center either way.
so i if want to go auto xing or canyon carving i might want fewer turns lock to lock? or just learn how to turn the steering wheel faster?
The second solution is for the few getting younger, then you have the correct answer.
Posted By: dangina
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/08/14 01:03 AM
cheap way is a smaller steering wheel
Posted By: Grizzly
Re: Power or Manual Steering Box Prefrance for the Twisties - 10/12/14 04:06 AM
Can't think of one single good reason to have manual steering.
I have it on one of the cars and it sucks big time. Can't wait to throw it in the scrap pile so they can make half a Nissan out of it.
I have it on one of the cars and it sucks big time. Can't wait to throw it in the scrap pile so they can make half a Nissan out of it.