Help ! I would like to get started and need some help.

I like the Starfish car I watched some you-tube on it, that's what I would like to work towards..

Thanks for the help.

Hemi Harvester -- As Autoxcuda said, get to some events and mingle, read the rule books, etc..also... there;'s some good vintage magazines on the market.

Up in the Chicago area, you may want to hook up with Brian Garcia (aka "roadracecuda" here on Moparts)... he runs his 67 BCuda fastback Gurney-ized car in "Vintage Historic" GT-1/TransAm class through the Midwest Council of Sports Car Clubs... www.mcscc.org He will probably run the wknd of Oct 4/5, 2014, at the Joliet Autobahn... see my current post offering a Mopar get-together there for HSAX and W2W racing. Plan to come if you can!

I agree with others that you need to very clearly define what constitutes the racing you want to do before proceeding. The wide variability of different groups is no doubt why you see a large range of rules that seem confusing. Once you get to the track, look around at the cars in use, and see what the rule overview is, then you can make more informed decisions about what direction you want to proceed in.

One obstacle we've hit in a lot of "Vintage" racing series is that the car has to have a legitimate racing pedigree. While our cars look the part, they are usually asked to run in exhibition or unlimited classes. For true "Vintage" racing, that is done by the collectors who like to use their cars for what they were built for. You could always become good buddies with the Petty's or Knupp's and they can miraculously "find" you one of their old cars.

Dan, Maybe that was your experience or impression, but lots of options for vehicles without a racing past. Yes there are a few organizations specifically for vintage race cars. For anyone starting from scratch, key is to develop within the rules targetted and you'll be fine.

For example, see Dave's post in this thread about
building a 1966 Trans/Am car where he updates the info I had posted.
Dave's Zebra Dart does not have a racing history.
Ritz's Team Starfish does not have a racing history.
Ott/Hagstrom 'cuda does not have a road racing history AFAIK.
The Benson's Dart and Barracuda do not have a racing history. They do run in an SCCA Open Class mostly because they prefer running radial tires. Remember you got to be having fun, or why do it.

There are other forms of high speed competition as well. Beckman runs vintage (european) rallies with his Ralleycuda (it does not have a racing history). These are sanctioned by FIA. Jess Neal's 'cuda has most fame for taking the vintage class 1st place at Pike's Peak the year Hot Rod magazine went along for the ride. Hill climbs are often sanctioned by smaller clubs in combination with bigger organizations. So the rules and classes at say Pikes Pike are different than say at Durayea or Giant's Dispair.

In addition to what Mitch and Steve wrote about going to events and clubs, look for websites and pages rather than vids. This is where you're more likely to find specifics about clubs, rules and people to contact.

If at the end it all looks too pricey, good places to begine are to find or start a 24 hours of Lemons team on one hand, or go autocrossing for a while with an old mopar. Several people have done both as ways of developing their cars, their driving, and their wheel to wheel skills.

Events I was specifically referring to were true "Vintage" events, not just a class called Vintage for old cars.
-Coronado Speed Festival
-Pikes Peak
-Rolex Monterey Motorsports Reunion

Coronado and Monterey are true vintage events, but Pikes Peak is written as a Vintage class for old cars in their general competition rules. However, they are also underwritten by Rocky Mtn Vintage Racing, which has very specific breakdowns of classifications for Vintage Historic (cars with documented racing history) and Continuation Car (period correct, new builds of cars represented in historic classes) and all cars are expected to be built to the General Competition Regulations rules for the time period they are representative of.

Jess Neal's Cuda ran in display classes when running at RMVR events due to his rack and pinion steering that was outside the intent of the RMVR GCR requirements, but ran in the regular Vintage class on The Peak.

IMO, the Vintage class on The Peak is in danger of disappearing under the weight of factory sponsored cars of the Time Attack class. The Hillclimb Committee has instituted a requirement of a minimum of six cars in the class for it to be considered for race day next year. This year there were only 4 vintage cars registered, so it is entirely possible that if next year is a repeat, the Vintage class will be gone and the few competitors that show up will run in Exhibition.

I'm sure it is unintended, but that comes across as very condescending toward SVRA, HRG and all those that compete under their sanctions. It also doesn't make sense. As Tony just explained, Pike's Peak is not a vintage event. They have had, on and off, a vintage class. I think Mapes and Ritz are great examples that apply directly to the goal HemiHarvester has stated.

edit:added ref to Tony's post for clarity

I have raced various cars with numerous Vintage organzations at a national level and every organization has their own idiosycracies. However, I can say with certainty that exclusivity for cars with documented racing history is with a few exceptions a thing of the past. Pikes Peak changed their vintage policies two years ago which is a damn shame becuase after the success that Jess Neal had with his 71 Cuda there was a contingent of us that were planning an assault on Pikes Peak in 2016 for the 100th anniversary. Larger events may require you to request an invitation, but they rarely will flat out refuse a car if it hasn't raced for 30 years. It is always a plus if it has, but not a requirement. What is more important is that it is built to the spirit of the rules at the time. If you show up running rack and pinion, an aluminum block, six piston calipers etc. that's not going to fly. But if your car is clean and well prepped, the overwhelming majority of organizations need the entries and have backed off their older policies of requiring documented history. The financial downturn, the increased competition from other sanctioning bodies, and quite frankly the 'Barret Jackson Affect' of skyrocketing car values have all been factors in the gentrification of vintage fields. I mention the latter because I can tell you for a fact that the majority of cobras and GT40s running vintage events are continuations because a lot of guys just won't risk a seven figure car on the track anymore. This is not at all limited to the Ford camp. Organizations had to choose betweeen allowing clones or watch their grids shrink. I am speaking from both a racer and organization stanpoint as I have done both.

Back to the issue at hand - yes, please! Build another Barracuda vintage racer so I have someone else to play with. With the exception of a couple times when one of the orginal Trans Am cars has been at Road America, I am pretty much the only mopar at any midwest vintage race. There was a guy in Michigan campaining a duster last season but he seems to have dropped off the face of the earth. The only real mandated requirements for racing will be of the safety nature - roll cage, harness, seat, etc. The rest of the car prep is really up to you. If you are just starting out I'd say you are going the right way - start with light prep. Money/time is better spent leaning to drive a reliable but perhaps underprepared car than trying to build the perfect beast before you drive. Take it from someone that did it the wrong way. You can always develop the car as you go. I will PM you my contact information - feel free to give me a call or shoot me an email with questions. If you are able to make the drive to the Chicagoland area at some point I can show you some basics to get you going.

Brian - 67 Barracuda Vintage Racer

So this thread kind of died out but I am going down this road now. I have a "Pro-touring" car now and want to get it to a point where I can start doing HPDE's, track days, and eventually become associated with a sanctioning body of racing. Up for sale is everything "Pro-touring". I came to realize the "Pro-touring" cars are really just pretend race cars and I went down the wrong road for a long time. If you guys know anyone who wants to buy a 19"/18" wheel and tire combo let me know.

My plan is to sell my suspension, wheels/tires, Pro-charger, 5 speed, and possibly the Dana in favor of more reliable and durable components. What I need to do is re-cam the engine, get higher CR pistons, 4 speed or close ratio 5 speed, make it safe, and get some realistic tire sizes on the car. I need a little guidance on

I know this doesn't all have to happen at once to go have fun but that is my intended end state. My order of business is pulling the engine and doing what is necessary to it. It is a solid engine with not a lot of miles and it's all forged internals make a great staring point for the power plant. I need a little guidance on cam profiles and ideal compression ratio for the intended purpose.

The wheels and tires cost an obscene amount of money but at this point, if I can get out of them what it takes to get into some Minilites and tires than I'm fine with that. I have a cage builder lined up and I'm trying to find out what the specs need to be before we start on that. SCCA GCR is pretty simple but my intended use is not Auto-X. I have no idea what other GCR's I should be looking at. I guess I need to find out what sanctioning body I will be associated with and look at their GCR to determine their req.'s for the cage, right? Or, is there a standard of cage which can be built that exceeds all other standards? Couldn't I just build a chromoly 10 pt cage and be blessed by any sanctioning body?

So, after cage, tires, and building a high RPM N/A engine get me into the action? All the other stuff is second priority from what I'm understanding. I intend to replace the other components but to get going, are these the items needing attention first?

I have so many other questions about things like the virtues of an 8.75 rear vs the S-60, will my current suspension be allowed for display classes, ...? I don't really have a hard on to run in Vintage class but are there sanctioning bodies that won't let me run at all with a coilover suspension?

Finding a mentor, so to speak, would be great. I'm not really looking for someone to tell me how much worse Alter-K-tion suspensions are than stock, or how 6 piston Wilwood calipers dust boots are going to fail. Like I said, a lot of that stuff is planned to be replaced. I just want someone to help me arrive at a starting point to get on the track.

A few general comments from a beginner.

For HPDE, HSAX and track days you may like to have a cage but not required. The cage is required for wheel to wheel in general.

As far as wheels and tires, there are some dedicated track tires in 15 and 16" but very limited selection and not much of anything in an ultra high performance road tire (eg 200 TW). With the right tires, your current 18/19 wheels may be fine if they are not too heavy, especially if you want tires that work for both road and track.

On the engine, are you starting with AL heads? If so compression in the low 10's should be safe for sustained hard running and a cam in the range of 230-240 intake duration @.050. The engine deserves its own thread with more detailed info. For handling duty, keeping the oil under control is important. I just changed to a Milodon road race pan for this reason.

If your 5 speed transmission has the long OD (~71 ratio) it will functionally be a 4 speed at the track and that should be fine as long as rear ratio is dialed in. I wouldn't see need to change it.

In terms of rear axle, an 8.75 will have adequate strength and be a little lighter... but I would not make changing it a priority. Not a big gain IMO.

Not sure about your suspension and brakes. There are plenty of threads on setting up T bar/rear leaf if that's the way you go. On a medium or larger track, the brakes will get quite a workout with multiple laps. Cobra style 13" discs in the front and 11.7" discs in the rear gets it done for me (after I burned up the rear drums).

I guess there are lots of ways to get started. I went to an all day driving school sponsored by the NSSCC (club). I guess I drove well enough that they invited me back. I followed that by another full day. HPDE in the AM and 8 timed HSAX runs in the PM. Loads of fun.

Your car would be a shoe-in for SCCA CAM-T and Optima events. You dont have rules at track days either.

Key thing here is you need to do some hard defining of what sanctioning body racing you plan on getting to before you just start unloading all your parts. HPDE, track days and time trial types of racing are much looser with rules, if they even have any. Where rules do exist, such as NASA time trials, the type and level of the modification will alter your classification, so they still aren't particularly tight.

If you are considering sanctioned racing in a door to door environment, then you can throw away all vestiges of having a street car and simply build it as a racer. In that case, it may actually be easier and money ahead to pick up a Dynacorn Challenger shell and build it to what ever spec you chosen organization has rather than sell off, modify, and cut up your current car.

Pro touring maybe pretend race cars, but they are still a long, long way from being real race cars. The range of diversity between the different sanctioning bodies and their differing classes means there really is no one size fits all set up you can easily pursue. You will need to pick one, maybe two, and go after it.

As pointed out earlier in this thread, spending time at the track, talking to the guys in your chosen class before you start selling off parts and making your changes is the first order of business.

Similar to go_fish and the OP, I'm a complete rookie but very interested in track racing, so I am very grateful for this thread and all the information contained in the responses.

Last year was my first, nervous, introduction to the scene and I attended club-sponsored track days. A local mechanic/racer kind of 'recruited' me and he's become a mentor. He is very helpful, as are every other driver I've met so far.

What I wanted to share with go-fish, was that for the club track day, they had a well-written checklist of their tech inspection points, plus personal safety gear requirements. I got the list in advance, it was easy to understand and not hard or costly to comply with. That was all my car and I needed to get on the track (plus the $299 fee for the day).

2016 will be my second season of track "racing". I will attend more of the same; solid well-organized club events with a decent tech inspection, where you practice on the track, then race against the clock, no passing except on the straights (I guess this is what you call HDPE).

Following advice from others, instead of plunging into my car for improved performance, I've really just focused on myself as a driver. Cheaper, less labor intensive, more track time. The car works well, and I attend time trial track days, so I compete against myself, see what improvements I can gain.

I am making a few small careful incremental improvements to the car, but (hopefully) my improving skill will give me the most gains. Most importantly the car hasn't broken and I am having a blast.

It will be fun to keep lurking here, see how things develop for go_fish and you all.
Cheers,
- Art

Thanks Art! I think that is what I am going to do as well. I talked to Dan which helped me dial in exactly what I want to do. My main thing would be to just have fun driving spiritedly on a track, not necessarily going wheel to wheel. Against the clock is what I would be happy with. Are you able to take a passenger/navigator?

Yes, a passenger/navigator was OK - but they had to meet the same requirements as any other track day driver: Sign up, pay the full fee, have a SNELL 2015 helmet, wear non-synethtic cotton clothing and sign the waivers. It had to do with insurance.

On the plus side, this means the passenger/guest/navigator can drive the car too.

So I asked another driver with a cool car if I could ride with him. And he drove his car while I took video of him, then we swapped places and he took video of me.

Here's the YouTube clip I uploaded from the day (non-Mopar content). Super fun.

https://youtu.be/X-Q6PYQJMkk

Cheers!
- Art