no talk of Tim's Valiant being for sale here

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I'd say it is one (if not THE) the fastest street Mopar on an road course with stock type chassis and bolt on locations.

Over the Green Brick or Hotchkis Challenger (lower HP, no cage).

IMHO, Consulier's 74 Dart Sports would/could be the car that could take it. Much more extensive/$$$ cage/chassis foundation.

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I feel like, if possible, this could be a moparts challenge? Kind of like Optima's but have a bunch of moparts people meet up and race.

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Don't worry Steve, it's coming to a good home

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Nope! Gonna keep it and drive it! But I will be getting rid of a Duster soon to pay for it.

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Nope! Gonna keep it and drive it! But I will be getting rid of a Duster soon to pay for it.

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Sweet! That's what I would have done.

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Do you have a Passon 5 speed? If so, that is what the car needs to really be a dual threat. Have Doctor Diff change the 2.94 rear gears over to something in the upper 3's, add the Passon 5 speed and that car becomes a fire breather.

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Do you have a Passon 5 speed? If so, that is what the car needs to really be a dual threat. Have Doctor Diff change the 2.94 rear gears over to something in the upper 3's, add the Passon 5 speed and that car becomes a fire breather.

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Yes, I could certainly do that. Ironically I also have a brand new 3.91 center section from Dr. Diff right now and as of today, have not installed the Passon unit in the Duster (was planned this week). I could easily toss in the stock 3 speed and leave the Duster more OEM.

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Do it! Do it! Do it!

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WOW He's taking a blood bath on that. I've modeled my build after that car- the B engine withstanding. It's gotta be a tough decision to sell after putting all that work into it.

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Nope! Gonna keep it and drive it! But I will be getting rid of a Duster soon to pay for it.

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I must have missed it, but....
Why the fire sale? Is there some measure of desperation to force such a quick sale at this price?

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Not the Duster Im building, the driver 340 4 speed car.

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Mark Williams 3.75" is $1034. http://markwilliams.com/driveshafts.aspx

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Looks like I'll be digging out the wallet again

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Yes, that one. It's in to have the 340 side stripes and rear panel stripes added right now.

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Yea it's kind of ironic "Mr. Numbers Matching Guy" is selling his only 100% #s car and buying a race car. Those who know me well know that as much as I love O.E. cars, I've been a racer forever too


See ya on the track!

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Very cool

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Yea it's kind of ironic "Mr. Numbers Matching Guy" is selling his only 100% #s car and buying a race car. Those who know me well know that as much as I love O.E. cars, I've been a racer forever too


See ya on the track!

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Well having driven a much lesser but similar car in Lemons racing I can assure you, I am already addicted

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Yea it's kind of ironic "Mr. Numbers Matching Guy" is selling his only 100% #s car and buying a race car. Those who know me well know that as much as I love O.E. cars, I've been a racer forever too


See ya on the track!

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It's eventually going to need paint, what do you guys think of the factory color red but in a satin finish as opposed to gloss?

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We didn't scale the car last time it was in my shop. Last notes I have were from 2010 when it was 3200 lbs and 55/45 distribution. The numbers should be better now since we removed weight and moved weight back. We started to get more aggressive on any weight that was in front of the CG but there is still a lot of weight that can come off the car. Just takes money and time.

A glass hood with a built in scoop would solve a number of issues. Probably need a cowl hood but a TA hood might work at 150+ mph. Not very many guys road race vintage Mopar muscle at 150 mph so not a lot of data out there on what works.

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Do you think a scooped hood would create more aero drag than advantages (if any) from: Cowl hood or air from factory cowl box or existing radiator support air?

Old nascar guys never ran scoops. Very little ran bulged hoods. The mid 70's Chargers did, but I wonder if that was just to get the rest of the hood lower/angled down for aero.

I think you could get aero advantage from blocking off the grille thats not directly in front of radiator. Like with a black sheet aluminum on backside of grille. Might still cool at speed. Experiment by adding blockage until gets hot.

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It's eventually going to need paint, what do you guys think of the factory color red but in a satin finish as opposed to gloss?

...

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Well I'm not against original patina but the partial trim bothers me, it would all have to be either removed or be complete. I also like a car to be one color and while it's mostly original paint it's been painted doors forward and the reds don't match so I think I'd want to deal with that as well. I am not looking to make it a show pony, just a bit cleaner.

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Now I see the trim and paint difference. You'd probably be bugged with my Dart. You always do have an attention to detail.

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You'd probably be bugged with my Dart.

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Nope, not a bit, who am I to be bugged by YOUR car? To each his own, it's all good

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Well I'm not against original patina but the partial trim bothers me, it would all have to be either removed or be complete. I also like a car to be one color and while it's mostly original paint it's been painted doors forward and the reds don't match so I think I'd want to deal with that as well. I am not looking to make it a show pony, just make it a bit cleaner.

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I think it wouldn't be too expensive or hard to find to complete the side trim for time being.

Yea, the trim and colors.... But could make it even more enjoyable and satisfying out at a track day passing some incredible shiny cars. They way it looks now, just makes you want to cheer for it. How could you not root for that car?

When AndyF would post a picture album link to a PIR track day it was hysterical. A 20x10 block of thumnail pictures... and whammo... there's the Valiant. It's sooo much different than everything else.

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Good point Steve, that's a great pic

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I don't. Tim finished up the fabrication at his shop so I didn't get any final pictures. It looks great though, very clean, very strong and very simple.

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Sure I can bring it to the Spokane show as long as all goes as predicted upon it's arrival.

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I figured asking you to bring it to the show was better than asking if I could stop by and look at it.

Just in case you weren't aware, the Spokane show is an evening show because the swap meet does one during the day. You are welcome to bring the car to the show at the swap meet and sit under the trees at my Dad's booth if you wanted. My buddy (Kevin) that lives a block from you and myself will be there all day and I expect he will bring his Duster (mine is still dead). Kevin and I usually work the swap meet booth and then run out to the show afterwards. Just an FYI.

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Just in case you weren't aware, the Spokane show is an evening show because the swap meet does one during the day.

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It's out on Sprague at the New Life Church (one block east of University). Registration opens at 4:00 and judging is from 6:00 to 7:30.

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2 blocks from my house

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The K-frame is modified. A tube runs thru the front of the K-frame and then the anti-sway bar fits in the tube. The anti-sway bar has splines on each end which drive the arms.

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The K-frame was also modified to clear the Milodon road race pan. The SB road race pan is fairly wide and it wasn't possible to drop the engine in from above unless the K-frame was modified.

Even after all of the modifications we still had trouble dropping the engine into place. I have a bridge crane in my shop so engine installs are usually a 15 minute job but not this one! Tim almost got the whiz wheel out but we finally got everything to fit. I'd recommend a few mods the next time the engine comes out though.

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We used a 2x3 steel tube then machined up some aluminum bushings for the end. I don't know where the pictures are, I took some during construction but I can't find them. Must be on a different computer.

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if your thinking of a satin finish you might want to look into plasti-dip. way cheaper than a paint job, and some of the effects they do are incredible. there is this guy on you-tube DYC (dipyourcar.com) that has all kinds of videos.

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Great looking ride pauly v.100, what are your build details?

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Well it's official! Tim just dropped off the car(great guy!), man this thing is a little beast! Just went for a quick test drive and filled it with gas.

I can't wait to put it on a track, it's WAAAAAY too much for the street that's for sure!

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Curious on your perspective of speed on this one Scott.....is this your first experience with stroker kit in any of the Mopar engines, LA, B, RB?

Once you experience a stroker engine you will never want to go back to stock configuration....atleast for anything that you want to have fun with....if its a numbers matching show poodle that is just washed and waxed....well that is for the older folks that like to nap during the day.

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Get me a cold

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No cold here. Just some warm old stale Uncle Buck's from the '80s that I used on my dog's coat right after washing him for the dog shows.

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it's WAAAAAY too much for the street that's for sure!

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It would be fun to run our cars together, we can work out a plan down the road but I'm open to it, me, you, Steve, and maybe some other A-body guys could have a little shootout, that would be a hoot!

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Congratulations on the purchase again! I say you hold off on any changes and spend all your money on track time and tires/pads. No paint, no gears, no OD tranny. None of that will make it faster on the track.

And one day I'd love to run our cars together. Andy's car has always been the benchmark in my mind. Maybe at AutoXcuda's track day in Cali in a year or two? Or another event? Steve- how much track time should one expect at y'all's road course track day?

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At Spring Fling Speed Festival we run from 8am to 5pm the Thursday before Spring Fling. There is a ton of track time and only two run groups. There's only about 30 cars and it's a big track. Here's some pics and info from this years past event: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1

In the afternoon you can run in about any run group. So if you wish, you could run almost constant from 1pm to 5pm. You and/or the car will need more breaks than the track availability.


The red Valiant has run at Spring Fling Speed Festival before in 2007. Seriously fast. That is where a water pump belt slipped off resulting in a blown head gasket... IIRC, that situation directly log-rolled into the 427 motor build.

The red Valiant at SFSF 2007...

the Crossfire drove from Alberta Canada. The orange Challenger from Phoenix. The blue 68 Barracuda is now owned by Boydsdodge in Canada (he comes down most the time)...





Real 1969 Winston Cup Nascar Hemi Daytona.





Scott here is a link to pictures from that day you might be interested in: http://www.mrmopar.com/SpringFling2007/WillowSprings/

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Cool thanks Steve! What was the engine combo like before the 427 build?

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Ok so stock stroke? Man this thing will be a different animal with this stroker. I just took it for a short rip around the neighborhood, little sucker is sure fun to drive!

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not just stock stroke, but less heads, less cam relatively, it had 4 piston viper brakes then...

Bob Reed drive it in 2007 and really liked it. He said you can really tell that is has a cage on it. And his personal opinion was that his own 1968 Barracuda was about maxed out chassis-wise without having the roll cage that Tim's Valliant had.

The E-Max Challenger does not have a cage. Seems to do well on track, but really no direct comparison. And Hotchkis is building a new car with with Kevin Wesley...just happens to have an even more extensive roll cage/chassis than the red 68 Valiant.

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Ok so stock stroke? Man this thing will be a different animal with this stroker. I just took it for a short rip around the neighborhood, little sucker is sure fun to drive!

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Congrats on getting a car that is far beyond most on the road, not just old Mopars. Here's a couple of pics from the 07 Speed Fest.

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Is Kevin Westly the guy with the 70 Satellite taxicab looking autocross car?

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That full boogie Dart Hotchkiss is doing will be hard to beat by any of us, but then again, with as much work and $ as it has in it you may as well resurrect a retired NASCAR!

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I wouldn't count out the Valiant against that Dart, but I wouldn't bet against the Dart either! Having a stiff strong chassis is paramount to fine tuning the other components of a race car, takes out a lot of variables. The modern Hemi drivetrain, fuel injection, electric steering, etc. will make that Dart easier to drive smoothly, which usually equals speed. At any rate, we'll eventually find out when we get the chance to flog them at the same event.

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That full boogie Dart Hotchkiss is doing will be hard to beat by any of us, but then again, with as much work and $ as it has in it you may as well resurrect a retired NASCAR!

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Kevin- when will your dart sport be done? How bout it, you in for an A body shootout?

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I don't think it would be appropriate to have an A Body shootout without the car that inspired just about all of us.

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100%

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I have a feeling a lot more trick and expensive parts are going to end up on that Dart. We are just seeing the basic chassis get built. I think/hope the idea is to take on those six figure plus Pro Touring cars at the Optima Challenge type events.

I notice there hasn't been any update pictures recently. Maybe saving them for a magazine spread. Can't blame them.

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Nope... nothing trick and nothing expensive. You have to remember, I'm cheap and I honestly do not like working on my cars. It has to be simple, or I lose interest real quick.

No big magazine spread planned, but I'm sure it will end up in one of them at some point. No updates because there really hasn't been much to post. Plus that's all up to the PR guys to sort out for Hotchkis.

It will run Optima, but not because that is what the car was built for. It's going to get killed on the design and judging portion. That will be a side show to it's true intention. The car is being built to be run at events like Pikes Peak, Targa Newfoundland, tarmac rallies and even smooth gravel rallies at some point.

Definitely won't see Optima this year because my plan this year is to see how close to the top 5 I can get at an event with my daily driver SRT8 Core. I base lined it a couple weeks ago at Road America as it rolled off the showroom floor with stock pads, stock alignment and the stock Goodyears.

Here are top 15 road course results with me mixed in to the over 3k class. I was running in Exhibition technically since I skipped the Road Rally and Design segments.



If I can get within 2-3 seconds of the DSE Camaro (2nd fastest in Vegas last year) with my daily driver, I will consider that a win. I'm making a couple changes before the next event, but not touching the engine. All bolt on's and no gutting the car or anything like that.

To put the Challenger times in perspective with the Dart... It will be the same engine with more power (tune with headers and no Cats), 1,250 lbs less weight and more tire. Yes, it's not the same chassis, but the Satellite and Challenger are pretty much equal right now, so I don't think the chassis will be a limiting factor really on the Dart.

To put the Challenger times in perspective with an A Body on the same track... it's currently 12 seconds a lap faster than Eric W's Duster was in 2013. My stock 5.7 Challenger last year went 1:52.8 which was 8 seconds a lap faster.

To put this post back in relation to a shoot out (and no, I'm not trying to stir the pot with this comment)... as you can see by the times, it's not always about the car, or how much money you spend.

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Any idea on ETA for the completion of Rick's green brick? I agree, the brick needs to be there.

And any idea on your cars estimated completion date?

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Kevin, your car is scheduled to be done next month or August 2015?

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Best bet is to pick an event like OUSCA or a Musclecar challenge event that coincides with one of those tracks like RA, Mid-Ohio, Joliet Autobahn etc. That way the track rental is covered and the media coverage is free lol. Also is this a shootout of car AND driver or car against car? If its car against car, Kevin is gonna be busy and would probably require steak dinner.

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A little bit OT, but what is the first gear in Scott/Tim's Valiant?

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... and crushing some Camaroes at the same time is always fun.

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Man... I wish my Dart was fast.

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It is. Going downhill backwards when the brakes don't work.

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Rick isn't going to bring the brick to SoCal. He's in NY, Kevin is in MI, Peter Bergman is in NY, Scott is in WA, and I'm in TX. I'm sure there are more guys with track experience that want in, but right now the bias is to the NE.

Kevin- what big tracks can we get a full day rental on for a reasonable rate? Mid America is $3500 single day on Mondays and Tuesdays from 8AM-5PM. That's probably a middle of the road fee (some on Texas are $1500, others in US are 5 figures).

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I think we have brutalized Scott's thread enough.

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No worries, it's not my thread anyway

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Thanks Scott, you took the smart path and bought one somebody already put work into, I would have been much smarter to do that as opposed to starting from scratch, but as it sits now mine is just a Hotchkis TVS/ fox adjustable shock setup with 18x10s all around. 320 HP crate 360, Aluminum a833 od, Borgeson box, 73 late A Discs front/ford 8.8 traction lock disc rear. Spending the rest of this year trying to win my local CAM SCCA class and getting out to as many track days as possible. Obviously way down on HP compared to my competition, so working on weight and driving!

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No problem, I'll start a new thread so we can all carry on. I drove the Valiant on a 10 mile jaunt down the freeway and back, it'll be easy to get into trouble in this thing. Hitting the onramp and going through the gears is an A-ticket ride for sure and with the 2.94 rear gear and gobs of power it just pulls forever when you get on it. Coming back I hit some slow moving traffic and it was 92 degrees out so overheating was on my mind for a while but it never got over 205 and cooled right down to 180 after we got moving again.

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Stop and go freeway traffic for 10 miles and just over 200 isnt bad IMO. cools to 180 almost immediately once moving again.

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I posted a pic of the Spokane track earlier in this thread

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Why so hot my engine makes a lot more power and in GA heat runs solid 183 standing still and will cool down to 170

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I saw somewhere above a mention that the Green Brick was an inspiration. Thanks for that, it was meant to be exactly that, to prove that brains and clever engineering (mostly Chrysler's) can level the playing field vs. bucks and stupidity (read: Chevies).

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I'm also a long time fan of the Green Brick since it's original inception, definitely one of my all time "Hero Cars" and THE reason I bought the red car, it's the closest thing I've seen that I've had a chance to buy and could afford, I plan on doing a lot of learning in this little car


*I'm in to run track day at Spokane Raceway this Friday July 11th! I'm stoked! It'll be my first chance to really see what it can do

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Coming back I hit some slow moving traffic and it was 92 degrees out so overheating was on my mind for a while.

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We are, usually, on the west side, but we do have 90s now and then, and once in a great while a 100 degree day or 2. Couple years ago it got up to 102 or 103 for a day. Didn't even bother me for some reason. Most every year on the east side it'll get into the 100s.

The other day I had to turn on a fan, but then that day I was cutting with a plasma cutter, grinding, and welding in the middle of the day/afternoon to fix the tire tool. Then taking a tire off a rim, flipping it, and putting it back on the rim. Not what I'm used to in the heat.

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In Spokane, today through Saturday:

Hi:96°Lo:61°
Hi:92°Lo:62°
Hi:97°Lo:65°
Hi:99°Lo:64°
Hi:99°Lo:68°

Having lived in Florida I can say that this little heat wave we are experiencing is a MUCH more comfortable "dry heat" than you guys living back east of the Rockies
with all the humidity.

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Still hot

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Stock dash with added gauges, stock steering column. original door panels and floor. No carpet, no headliner, no back seat, aftermarket buckets. Could make it look showroom stock in weekend.

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Yes, Its a 2 component system: A Scott and a fire extinguisher

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I saw somewhere above a mention that the Green Brick was an inspiration. Thanks for that, it was meant to be exactly that, to prove that brains and clever engineering (mostly Chrysler's) can level the playing field vs. bucks and stupidity (read: Chevies).

Rick

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I too have been greatly inspired by the Brick. I have even kept articles back to when it was street raced by some guy name Joe or something.

Glad to hear it is being updated. Can't wait to see what you are doing.

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*I'm in to run track day at Spokane Raceway this Friday July 11th! I'm stoked! It'll be my first chance to really see what it can do

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Dang, wish I could make it work to be there and see it. I work less than a mile or two from the track, but will be at the fairgrounds working the swap meet.

Any chance for either the swap meet show or the Mopar show in the evening on Saturday?

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Well I made it to track day! What a freaking blast! Took the Valiant to Spokane County Raceway and put it through the paces. I drove it the (20 miles) or so to the track and back home, some of the looks the other drivers gave me were priceless (most of whom trailered theirs).
....

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So you still want to bother painting it?

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After a few warm up laps I pushed it harder and harder until I was eventually comfortably pacing with the Viper.

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I keep calling the car "Tim's Valiant"

I vote to have it named the Red Brick!

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...

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In Chicago it would be "Da Brick"
France "Le Brick"

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no LE LEs here!!!

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Crap. Missed out on this one. Do you mind sharing what you paid for it? CL ad is expired. The first time I saw this car, I wanted it. Missed my chance. Sigh.

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Well I have a video...It sucks because it was a last minute job with my hand held camera velcro'd to the dash and my chip didn't have much recording time left on it but it's a small window into what track day was like. I only made about 10 laps to check the car and the track out, next time will be a bit more serious.

Youtube Linky

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Well I have a video...It sucks because it was a last minute job with my hand held camera velcro'd to the dash and my chip didn't have much recording time left on it but it's a small window into what track day was like. I only made about 10 laps to check the car and the track out, next time will be a bit more serious.

Youtube Linky

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Nope, 4 speed and 2.94's as delivered. It actually runs pretty darn well just like it is, I was loosing traction exiting the slower corners (worn tires were a factor).

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Man that would be cool! Not sure I can make it though. Ironically Ill be in Portland Tues/Weds this week.

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I am sure there are qualified drivers here that might offer to drive said car at a discount rate and are not yet on the TSA "do not fly" list.

And just to be clear, I might be on the list.

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Im no super star race car drovet thats for sure, especially on a track Ive only been around a few times in a car Im not yet totally familiar/comfortable in......But that'll change with practice. We'll see about this weekend, its a longshot. Yes the torque is Very handy!

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Now I am really curious how my car will do it has more power more transmission and gear better front to rear ratio and lighter

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Well I have had it at road Atlanta and I have way past 160mph and suspension is still mopar most of it lol

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Torsion bars have been gone a long time

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Race me then I will tell

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3,100lbs 50.7% front 49% rear 630hp at 6800 540 tq at 5100
275 front 315 rear viper 6spd 3.89 gear

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Looks like a different car with stripes!

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