2.94-3.23 gears and an 833

Posted By: AlexP

2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/27/14 06:57 PM

I'm trying to optimize my combo on a budget. I'm ready to swap my 6.1 hemi in, but I can't swing a 5 or 6 speed yet.

I've got several 8.75" chunks in 489 and 742 to swap to.

I'm going to be running a strong 6.1 hemi with a stock Sachs clutch and steel flywheel. I'll have more than enough torque to move my car.

Who here has run a 4 speed and 2.94-3.23 gears? I've got a 2.94 peg leg that I ran with a stock 440/727 and it was fine for the driving I do. (mostly highway) but now that I'm going to a new motor with my 4 speed, I'd like to take one step up in gearing.

I drive 18 miles to work and I'd like to get to the roadcourse eventually. Acceleration from a stop isn't a concern since it wont have a good tire any time soon.

Here is the info for Steff's motor...which will be very similar to my own. Torque wont be a problem.

Quote:

Motor Details: Stock Short Block, Modern Cylinder Head ported 6.1 Heads, 358/240cfm @ .650 lift, Stock 2.08/1.58 Hollow Stem Valves, PAC Springs & related parts, Stock Rockers, Trend Pushrods, 5/16 x .080 wall, Performance Werks Racing Custom Hydraulic Roller to work with stock piston (no valve reliefs): 224/228 @ .050, .620/.640 lift , 112CL +2 , Drag Pack Intake, Proform HP950 Carb, Milodon Pan & Windage Tray, Firecore Prototype Coil Packs, 1 3/4 primary x 30� long dyno headers, ATI Drag Pack Damper, Meziere Remote Water Pump.

Dyno pulls were from 4500 to 6500 rpms.

Torque curve is very nice, starting at 472 ft. lbs. at 4540 rpm, peaking at 487 ft. lbs at 5258 rpm, then tapering off to 450.5 at 6454 rpm

Horse Power started at 408.1hp @ 4540 rpm & steadily climbing to a peak of 556.5 hp @ 6441 rpm.

Posted By: Dans 68

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/27/14 07:33 PM

I have a 4-speed Charger with 3.23 gears. I'd go no lower than a 3.23 for all around driving and fun. If you have a highway cruiser 2.94 would surely work to help with the gas mileage, but not so much with the fun factor.

Dan

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/27/14 07:42 PM

What is your rear wheel diameter and size?

Posted By: AlexP

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/27/14 07:45 PM

Currently a 28" with my 2.94's. Its slow.

Will be going to a 26" with new wheels and tires.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/27/14 07:54 PM

What's the top speed that at end of straight for the track you want to go to? Same track as Ucoog? What was his top speed?

Posted By: AlexP

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/27/14 07:58 PM

Quote:

What's the top speed that at end of straight for the track you want to go to? Same track as Ucoog? What was his top speed?

I bet about 130 down the front straight. He is shifting to 5th on his TKO. He is at Texas World Speedway. We were actually there this weekend. He gave some seriously expensive cars a very, very hard time.

I'd like to try at least a half mile standing course. I hope that with a 6600rpm redline I could go deep into fourth and keep accelerating.

Posted By: AlexP

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/27/14 08:02 PM

I did the vexer calculator just now. My redline is 156 with 3.23's, 275/40-17 and 1:1 @ 6600 rpm

130 mph is 5500 rpm.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/27/14 08:05 PM

need to make decesion on what you want to focus on.

For track 3.23's would seems to be ok if motor good to 6400. But I think you need a more accurate idea of top speed.

For speed trial 2.94's.

Posted By: AndyF

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/27/14 08:57 PM

Tim's Valiant has 2.94 rear gears with a wide ratio 4 speed. Going all aluminum on the trans helped take a bunch of weight out.

Posted By: goldduster318

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/28/14 01:42 AM

I have a 340 with a 4-speed and 3.23 rear and it's fine. Just a little clutch slip at take off to make it smooth and everything else is fine.

My engine does make 400 lb-ft (gross) at 2800 rpm though. Pulls hard once you get to 2000 rpm.

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/28/14 03:56 AM

Ran an A833 with 2.94SG in my 87 Diplomat for years, just a 360 in front of it but I had no problems, 255/60-r15's. I'd imagine a 440 would have less problems.

Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/28/14 04:44 AM

Quote:

I'm trying to optimize my combo on a budget. I'm ready to swap my 6.1 hemi in, but I can't swing a 5 or 6 speed yet.

I've got several 8.75" chunks in 489 and 742 to swap to.

I'm going to be running a strong 6.1 hemi with a stock Sachs clutch and steel flywheel. I'll have more than enough torque to move my car.

Who here has run a 4 speed and 2.94-3.23 gears? I've got a 2.94 peg leg that I ran with a stock 440/727 and it was fine for the driving I do. (mostly highway) but now that I'm going to a new motor with my 4 speed, I'd like to take one step up in gearing.

I drive 18 miles to work and I'd like to get to the roadcourse eventually. Acceleration from a stop isn't a concern since it wont have a good tire any time soon.

Here is the info for Steff's motor...which will be very similar to my own. Torque wont be a problem.

Quote:

Motor Details: Stock Short Block, Modern Cylinder Head ported 6.1 Heads, 358/240cfm @ .650 lift, Stock 2.08/1.58 Hollow Stem Valves, PAC Springs & related parts, Stock Rockers, Trend Pushrods, 5/16 x .080 wall, Performance Werks Racing Custom Hydraulic Roller to work with stock piston (no valve reliefs): 224/228 @ .050, .620/.640 lift , 112CL +2 , Drag Pack Intake, Proform HP950 Carb, Milodon Pan & Windage Tray, Firecore Prototype Coil Packs, 1 3/4 primary x 30� long dyno headers, ATI Drag Pack Damper, Meziere Remote Water Pump.

Dyno pulls were from 4500 to 6500 rpms.

Torque curve is very nice, starting at 472 ft. lbs. at 4540 rpm, peaking at 487 ft. lbs at 5258 rpm, then tapering off to 450.5 at 6454 rpm

Horse Power started at 408.1hp @ 4540 rpm & steadily climbing to a peak of 556.5 hp @ 6441 rpm.

Here are my thoughts:
833 1st gear = 2.47:1
tko600 1st gear = 2.87:1
viper t56 = 2.66:1

Rule of thumb for a drag car (not accounting for tire diameter) is 10:1 to 11:1 final drive in first.
833 first gear:
4.10 gear: 10.1:1 (51 mph 1st @ 6600, 26.2-26.5 tire height)
3.55 gear: 8.9:1 (59 mph)
3.23 gear: 8:1 (65 mph)
2.94 gear: 7.26:1 (71.7 mph)
tko600 2nd gear (1.89:1):
3.60 gear: 6.8:1 (76 mph)
tko600 1st gear:
3.60 gear: 10.3:1 (50 mph at 6600 rpm)

If you want to know what a 2.94 gear feels like in 1st, come drive my car starting from second.

FYI: Passon 5 speed will have a 2.64 1st gear.
2.94 gear: 7.76
3.23 gear: 8.5
3.55 gear: 9.3

You probably recall I've been looking at swapping to a 3.00:1 gear and a .82 OD in my tko.
8.6:1 1st gear (60 mph 1st gear)

Remember we've discussed many 'supercars' allow for 0-60 mph tests in 1st gear.

IMHO, I would pick your rear gear based on 1st gear redline and top gear redline. find a medium and call it good. If you get an OD added in, consider your cruising rpm at 75 as well.

I say go 3.23 or 3.55, (or 3.31 dana 60), but not 2.94.

Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/28/14 04:48 AM

Quote:

Quote:

What's the top speed that at end of straight for the track you want to go to? Same track as Ucoog? What was his top speed?

I bet about 130 down the front straight. He is shifting to 5th on his TKO. He is at Texas World Speedway. We were actually there this weekend. He gave some seriously expensive cars a very, very hard time.

I'd like to try at least a half mile standing course. I hope that with a 6600rpm redline I could go deep into fourth and keep accelerating.

Thanks Alex!

I was short shifting the bone stock 6.1 hemi (for those who don't know, I blew my built motor at the Texas Mile). When I shifted into 5th (OD), the .64:1 OD didn't really do much for accelerating given the lack or aero. So 125-130 was probably about it on the straight.

C6 Z06 will do 145-150 max on that straight (Texas World Speedway). That's the fastest straight on a Texas road course to my knowledge (don't know about Texas Motor Speedway).

Posted By: goldduster318

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/28/14 04:56 AM

Quote:

Here are my thoughts:
833 1st gear = 2.47:1
tko600 1st gear = 2.87:1
viper t56 = 2.66:1

The A-833 could also be 2.66:1 1st. The A-body ones are and also I believe most others. IIRC, the T/As/AARs and some 70-up HP B/E cars have 2.47:1

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/28/14 06:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Here are my thoughts:
833 1st gear = 2.47:1
tko600 1st gear = 2.87:1
viper t56 = 2.66:1

The A-833 could also be 2.66:1 1st. The A-body ones are and also I believe most others. IIRC, the T/As/AARs and some 70-up HP B/E cars have 2.47:1

72 and up A-body 833's are 2.47 1st. And maybe sometime in 1971 too??? I think same goes for B/E bodies???

Posted By: AlexP

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/28/14 07:07 AM

My 1970 833 shows to be a 2.65 first.

Posted By: ThermoQuad

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/28/14 12:53 PM

I ran [on the road course and street] a 2.66 1st gear 4sp in my AAR with 3.23's before Passon came out with the hemi 4sp OD trans. Then I ran 3.55's.
26 inch tall tire

In the 1/4 mile the 833 4sp was quicker than the hemi 4 sp OD. The car ran low 12's with a trap speed that said 11.90's. With the OD trans 12.60-12.80 On the back straight at the Glen the mph was the same with less shifting with the OD trans. 833/4-3-2-3-4 vs hemi OD/4-3-4

Posted By: AlexP

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/29/14 03:49 PM

Could a 383/4 speed car have been geared with a 3.23?

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/29/14 06:22 PM

Quote:

Could a 383/4 speed car have been geared with a 3.23?

From the factory? Yes.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/30/14 12:40 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Could a 383/4 speed car have been geared with a 3.23?

From the factory? Yes.

That was pretty much the standard combo unless you special ordered something different.

Isn't there an 833 with a 3.09 first?

Kevin

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/30/14 01:47 AM

A833OD for sure, I think the 6 cylinder non-OD ones too.

Posted By: 71autoxr

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/30/14 06:59 AM

I have a light dart with a stock 340, 833od, and 2.76 rear gears. Has no problem hazing the tires, and puts out close to 20 mpg when cruising on the freeway. I admit that it takes a little getting use to 1st gear, but overall i love it. I have several center sections for a 8 3/4 and i havnt swapped it out yet. Ideally i think a 3:23 would be perfect for me. Once i hit the freeway and slip it into o.d. The car just idles right along pulling 70 mph with no problem.

Posted By: DGS

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/30/14 10:47 AM

I plan on swapping my TF727 for an A833. My combo is a mild build 440 and a 3.23 SG rear. I guess it was a good decision to take the 2.66 first gear vs. the 2.47 first.

I hope the 4-speed will be as much fun as I expect it to be.

Posted By: 71autoxr

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 01/30/14 08:13 PM

Quote:

I have a light dart with a stock 340, 833od, and 2.76 rear gears. Has no problem hazing the tires, and puts out close to 20 mpg when cruising on the freeway. I admit that it takes a little getting use to 1st gear, but overall i love it. I have several center sections for a 8 3/4 and i havnt swapped it out yet. Ideally i think a 3:23 would be perfect for me. Once i hit the freeway and slip it into o.d. The car just idles right along pulling 70 mph with no problem.

I should have added that this is just a street car and not the car I use for track days or the like.

Posted By: BergmanAutoCraft

Re: 2.94-3.23 gears and an 833 - 02/03/14 04:41 PM

I've been running 2.94s for years with a 26" tire. When I drag raced with the auto it ran 12.7@109. Now I run the 4 speed with a 3.09 first and 1:1 top gear. Works like a charm on the street and at road events -

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ6bb1rkaXjrCJgrhnUMzzQ