Moparts
Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO
Posted By: Devil
Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/26/13 04:31 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kASM04zuHlo&feature=share&list=PLBE43441C8510DC95Pretty good video with Elana. I can't wait til I can afford a Hotchkis setup for my Challenger... and get some tires.
Ryan
Posted By: amxautox
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/26/13 04:49 AM
Good vid. Now to see what size those goodins come in to fit the JunkYardDog on Torque Thrust D wheels.
Posted By: RylisPro
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/26/13 10:05 AM
I have been waiting for them to put the data out and the results were interesting. The RS-3's were a given to place so high, but beneath the Z2's?! Can't argue with hard numbers though... It does not look like the tires were heat cycled
I know that a few laps on an auto-x is not the same as a few hard laps around a track.
I'm still getting the Rivals
Posted By: Consulier
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/26/13 03:45 PM
Few things you don't see in the video is how much better the Dunlop is overall. It was truly amazing. It put the power down better than any other tire and was the easiest to drive fast. On top of that, you could actually use it in the rain. The Rival is worthless in the wet.
The Rival was heat cycled btw, you just don't see it in the results. Everything was run the first day for times. We chose the Rival for all the action shots on the second day. Still had data logging, it didn't pick up anything. Of all the tires, we actually spent the most time with the Rival trying to make it faster. Used it for tire pressure testing to demonstrate gains/loses based on pressures. Still nothing.
Yes, the Dunlop is that good. I believe the ZII is new this year just like the Rival, now they just need more sizes.
Hopefully some guys switch from the Nitto based on this test. It's just bad. Nothing good to say about it other than it was the cheapest.
Thanks,
Kevin Wesley
Posted By: PHJ426
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/26/13 04:03 PM
Since the Dunlop tested so well, hopefully they will see a market and start producing the larger tires.
Cool video!
Posted By: Tomswheels
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/26/13 05:11 PM
Thanks for the info Kevin!
Posted By: BergmanAutoCraft
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/26/13 10:56 PM
Where are the results? I searched the hotrod.com sight and didn't find it.
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/26/13 11:54 PM
Here.
Posted By: PHJ426
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/26/13 11:57 PM
That's cool how did you capture that frame from the video?
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/27/13 12:00 AM
I didnt, I stole it from another site that did.
Posted By: PHJ426
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/27/13 12:02 AM
Hopefully Dunlop makes these tires in the wider sizes soon.
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/27/13 12:48 AM
A glowing review for the Dunlops. Too bad they only come in import sizes. I'd almost be tempted to get some 255's (widest they make in 17) and put 'em on some stock 17x8" rims to sleeper-up my 96GT, but i dont think i could stand looking at them for too long... Too tiny.
The Rivals dont seem to be getting any love here, but if they're better than a KDW2 (they'd have to be, wouldn't they?) then thats more than enough for me. If the Dunlops came in real sizes i'd buy 'em instead though.
I'll actually be in the market for some brand new tires come spring... Been driving for over 20 years, NEVER had brand new tires...
Posted By: brads70
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/27/13 02:00 AM
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Hopefully Dunlop makes these tires in the wider sizes soon.
I'm planning on buying new rims and tires come spring! 
So far it's still the Falkens as far as sizing goes. 
Posted By: Mopar Mitch
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/27/13 06:28 AM
One thing buyers/competitors may want to consider is that some of the sanctioned race/autocross events have contingency awards offered to competitiors competing on their name-brand products, such as certain tire brands... that could sway your choices if you want to try to cash-in on winning (1st place always, as well as typically 2nd place and sometimes 3rd place). This is not to say that the best products always win... the nut-behind-the-wheel (aka "driver") still makes the biggest difference at each event on any day.
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/27/13 12:05 PM
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Hopefully some guys switch from the Nitto based on this test. It's just bad. Nothing good to say about it other than it was the cheapest.
I wonder if the Nittos would have done better had they been the same actual size ov the others. If they were all 285's, then the Nittos would have measured like a 265. They're always small. Maybe 305 Nittos against all those other 285's would have fared better? I dont want to sound apologist for Nitto though... I honestly wonder why anyone buys them.
Posted By: BergmanAutoCraft
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/27/13 01:35 PM
I like my Super Sports.
Posted By: Consulier
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/27/13 01:44 PM
They were all 275/35, but had a rather large difference in width across the brands.
Watch the video and you can see 5 or so sets stacked by the trailer. The Dunlop is by far the tallest stack, then Falken and down the line. BFG wasn't in the shot, but similar to the Dunlop. The Nitto is the smallest of the bunch and then it has those 2 massive tread voids around the middle of the tire. It's just that much less rubber it can put on the road and that is where the grip comes from. No tread, no chance.
One thing that I didn't expect to see as an issue was wheel hop. The Dunlop did the best at allowing you to use the brakes and it had the least amount wheel hop of them all. You would typically not hear anything about how well a tire controls wheel hop in any late model article. With our leaf spring cars, it's an important piece of the puzzle when making a selection.
There will be a lot more detail about the tires in the written article and online.
Thanks,
Kevin Wesley
Posted By: Consulier
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/27/13 02:08 PM
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I like my Super Sports.
What is it with the Michelin? People are loyal to that tire, but it was definitely outclassed by a lot of the others.
I'm loyal to Falken because they are supporting the project, but if I were buying my own tires it would definitely be the Dunlop. I've fought power on grip since putting the car together and I know now it's not anything with the car. The Falken simply won't put the power down and the Dunlop will.
Here's a bit of perspective if you lay it out in competition. I was 7th on the road course at Motorstate this year. A tire change would have quite clearly put me in the top 4, if not top 3. Sometimes change is good.
Thanks,
Kevin Wesley
Posted By: 67autocross
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/27/13 02:30 PM
Hey Kevin .. off topic a bit, you said in the video that you are running a RS 600 transmission in the car, how is it compared to the tremac?
Posted By: Blusmbl
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/27/13 03:36 PM
Great video, seeing real data from both times and the accelerometer is refreshing!
Dumb question though.... any idea why the Goodyear Eagle Supercar G2's weren't included? They are the OEM tire on the best of the best pony cars (GT500 SVT performance package, ZL1, etc), and it would have been interesting to see how they stack up.
And as an aside- Kevin, your Taxi is awesome.
Posted By: Consulier
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/27/13 06:48 PM
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Hey Kevin .. off topic a bit, you said in the video that you are running a RS 600 transmission in the car, how is it compared to the tremac?
I love the RS 600. It's been a great trans, shifts very well, fit without any problems. No complaints... and I paid for it too. So, I'm not just saying that because it was free. 
Posted By: Consulier
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/27/13 06:57 PM
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Dumb question though.... any idea why the Goodyear Eagle Supercar G2's weren't included? They are the OEM tire on the best of the best pony cars (GT500 SVT performance package, ZL1, etc), and it would have been interesting to see how they stack up.
And as an aside- Kevin, your Taxi is awesome.
I asked about a few tires, it was more limited by time than anything else. There were definitely some that I asked about and they told me it just wasn't even worth it because they weren't any good.
The Goodyear's were one that I would have liked to have seen in action. They are even more limited in size though than the Dunlop and the 275's are $100 a piece more than anything else tested. So, there were numerous reasons why some tires were not included.
I would like to see a 19"/20" tire test for the late model cars. The Goodyear would definitely be a good tire for that test.
Posted By: Viol8r
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/28/13 04:21 PM
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I like my Super Sports.
I tend to agree with this. I run the KDW2 and the Super Sports. I am all good with seeing this improved tire, but the sizes just are not there for our application so it unfornuately side steps about 80% of the real pro-touring community. If you go to a real event, you are going against guys with 300+ all the way around their car. But I also run a 19, so maybe this is not my place to talk.
I would definetly give this tire a look if we could see some more sizes.
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/28/13 05:01 PM
I would like to see some of these cars compete on the same tire. This may be a little bit of a thread derailment, but wouldnt it be cool to see all these high dollar mega cars all compete against the world with everyone on a 275? Just a brainstorm but I really think it could be a way for the Mopar suspension to show all of its naysayers that it does NOT suck. Talk about upsetting the apple cart....
Posted By: BergmanAutoCraft
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/28/13 05:28 PM
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I like my Super Sports.
What is it with the Michelin? People are loyal to that tire, but it was definitely outclassed by a lot of the others.
I'm loyal to Falken because they are supporting the project, but if I were buying my own tires it would definitely be the Dunlop. I've fought power on grip since putting the car together and I know now it's not anything with the car. The Falken simply won't put the power down and the Dunlop will.
Here's a bit of perspective if you lay it out in competition. I was 7th on the road course at Motorstate this year. A tire change would have quite clearly put me in the top 4, if not top 3. Sometimes change is good.
Thanks,
Kevin Wesley
I agree with the test results, but lets face it, nobody except a pro driver is really going to be able to tell the difference. I don't autocross, open track only, so I can't comment there.
That being said, there are so many other factors in choosing a quality tire besides splitting hairs on a closed course. There's ride quality, ease of balancing, treadlife and the longevity (cracking tread, sidewalls, drying out, etc. None of those things were considered in this test. The Michelins come in my size (255 40 18), ride great and quiet, perform well on the track (1:09 at Lime Rock), balance with minimal weight and will last a good long time without drying out.
Posted By: brads70
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/28/13 06:08 PM
What I don't understand is the sizing? Or lack there of? Is it just us in the Mopar crowd that use bigger sized tires? I've accepted the fact that no one makes "good" tires for 15" anymore... fine, so I'm prepared to go buy new rims in 17" or 18". Sure is frustrating when you research tires... find a "good one" then find out it's not available in the sizes you want? Is it that we are such a small segment that it's not feasible to make "musclecar" sizing compared to tuner cars? I've been watching for over a year now on the hype of the BFG Rival's and how great they are going to be , blah blah ....STILL a year later not sizing? Still seems to be for me Falkens are the only option? Some competition sure would be nice! Next thing will be, I bite the bullet, and buy the rims ,then a year or two down the road find the size I bought is no longer being made? Happened to me in the 15" Firestone Indy 500's
Posted By: dangina
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/28/13 06:44 PM
I was hoping that they were gonna run the michelin pilot sport AS3's. I'd like to take that tire out for a spin. Too bad you can't take tires out for a test drive to see how well they work on your car. I thought the hankooks and the nitto's would have done better, too bad that Dunlops aren't offered at discounttiredirect.com, its the only place i buy tires...
Posted By: Blusmbl
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/28/13 10:32 PM
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I asked about a few tires, it was more limited by time than anything else. There were definitely some that I asked about and they told me it just wasn't even worth it because they weren't any good.
The Goodyear's were one that I would have liked to have seen in action. They are even more limited in size though than the Dunlop and the 275's are $100 a piece more than anything else tested. So, there were numerous reasons why some tires were not included.
I would like to see a 19"/20" tire test for the late model cars. The Goodyear would definitely be a good tire for that test.
Makes sense, thank you. I didn't realize they were that much more expensive than everything else tested, but it certainly explains a lot!
Posted By: Mopar Mitch
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/28/13 11:23 PM
In review of the original intent of the Tire Rack's testing, they tested ONLY 200 tread wear tires. That magical "200" number is a more commonly accepted "class-spec" tire around most of the country... and some use a little lower number (~140 minimum). So, although many other tires/models could have been tested, they had to be "200" (not greater or less than 200). At that point in time, as may still be current today, I believe the most widely offered single "size" for likely useage on an autocross and/or road course event, say.. for "pony and/or muscle cars", was/is the 275-35-18... thus.. that was the "size" that qualified for being in the tests... I don't think any other tires of "200" tread wear were not included which offered that size of 275-35-18.
For those ppl super-serious about the fastest times on an autocross and/or road course event, there is the ultimate lowest tread wear ratings at "40" for very limited brands (and must be DOT listed) being Hoosier (A6 autocross, R6 road course), Kumho, Goodyear, BFG, and a trace of others. Typically, these super-soft/sticky tires will place the car into specific class/categories where such lower tread wear ratings are allowed (and still DOT listed).. and they DO make a big difference in lap times (although the driver still makes the final difference). These "40" tread wear tires don't last very long, but they grip like glue (and, "Yes officer, they are DOT legal!")... but not truly intended for street or hwy driving.
Take a look at the SCCA Solo National events, in particular the recent results.. they include tire brands on each car. Seek and find other similar "competition" events to see what other cars/drivers are running.
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/29/13 12:14 AM
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What I don't understand is the sizing? Or lack there of? Is it just us in the Mopar crowd that use bigger sized tires? I've accepted the fact that no one makes "good" tires for 15" anymore... fine, so I'm prepared to go buy new rims in 17" or 18". Sure is frustrating when you research tires... find a "good one" then find out it's not available in the sizes you want? Is it that we are such a small segment that it's not feasible to make "musclecar" sizing compared to tuner cars? I've been watching for over a year now on the hype of the BFG Rival's and how great they are going to be , blah blah ....STILL a year later not sizing? Still seems to be for me Falkens are the only option? Some competition sure would be nice! Next thing will be, I bite the bullet, and buy the rims ,then a year or two down the road find the size I bought is no longer being made? Happened to me in the 15" Firestone Indy 500's
I dont understand this? The Rivals come in pretty much any size we could need. BFG is usually better than most that way, though they seem to quickly pull some sizes as they go. They come in more sizes than the Falkens, which only go up to 315.
I do get the frustration though... you read all these reviews, and the best performers usually have the worst size range. For years Bridgestones were at the top ov Tire Rack's charts, but that company just wont make a really wide tire, ever.
Its not just old Mopars that want these tires... Its OEM spec on Vipers, for one, maybe other supercars too? Plus with all these super custom builds and 'pro-touring' (ugh) customs coming out every day, those 335's show up a lot more than you'd think they would. Maybe not EVERY model needs to come out in a 14" wide size, but i think the demand is there for a few more. Then again, i also think some killer Y or Z-rated 15's in muscle car sizes would sell too. MANY old car guys will never warm up to the no-sidewall look... and only go to 17's and 18's because they absolutely have to.
By the way, i was on Firestone site last night and they still list that 500 tire as a product. Still just an S-rated tire though.
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/29/13 01:01 AM
I like Toyo's. I wish Toyo would take their R888 or RA1 and stamp 200aa on the side. Toyo uses some kind of rubber in their tires that in my experience wears unbelievably. Used to run them on a diesel, 37/1350/17, and they have probably 40K on them and are still not wore out, which is unheard of for a M/T on a diesel pickup. The RA1's on the back of my Dart have been abused relentlessly for 2000 miles and just now have visual wear. This was with a BB/6spd. As far as my car goes I cant honestly give a comparison but the facts are facts. Nittos are supposed to made by Toyo but even if that is the case I would say the Nitto's must be made of the excess rubber they sweep up off the floor after making the Toyo's.
Posted By: BergmanAutoCraft
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/29/13 03:12 AM
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In review of the original intent of the Tire Rack's testing, they tested ONLY 200 tread wear tires. That magical "200" number is a more commonly accepted "class-spec" tire around most of the country... and some use a little lower number (~140 minimum). So, although many other tires/models could have been tested, they had to be "200" (not greater or less than 200). At that point in time, as may still be current today, I believe the most widely offered single "size" for likely useage on an autocross and/or road course event, say.. for "pony and/or muscle cars", was/is the 275-35-18... thus.. that was the "size" that qualified for being in the tests... I don't think any other tires of "200" tread wear were not included which offered that size of 275-35-18.
For those ppl super-serious about the fastest times on an autocross and/or road course event, there is the ultimate lowest tread wear ratings at "40" for very limited brands (and must be DOT listed) being Hoosier (A6 autocross, R6 road course), Kumho, Goodyear, BFG, and a trace of others. Typically, these super-soft/sticky tires will place the car into specific class/categories where such lower tread wear ratings are allowed (and still DOT listed).. and they DO make a big difference in lap times (although the driver still makes the final difference). These "40" tread wear tires don't last very long, but they grip like glue (and, "Yes officer, they are DOT legal!")... but not truly intended for street or hwy driving.
Take a look at the SCCA Solo National events, in particular the recent results.. they include tire brands on each car. Seek and find other similar "competition" events to see what other cars/drivers are running.
Super Sports are 300 tread wear.
Posted By: Consulier
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/29/13 03:27 AM
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If you go to a real event, you are going against guys with 300+ all the way around their car.
I don't know, I was at a few "real" events this year and the fast cars were all running 200's. The only notable running 300's is Popp and I believe he is on a Michelin deal.
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But I also run a 19, so maybe this is not my place to talk.
The Dunlop is available in 19 and runs large. Might be worth a look.
Posted By: Consulier
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/29/13 03:40 AM
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I agree with the test results, but lets face it, nobody except a pro driver is really going to be able to tell the difference.
I disagree.
If a tire has more grip, better feel, better braking limits, you will be faster. Will that non-pro be able to tell the difference between the two with just seat of the pants feedback? Probably not, that's experience. The only difference you will see is in lap time. They will be faster, they will have more confidence, but not necessarily know why.
Posted By: brads70
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/29/13 12:56 PM
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What I don't understand is the sizing? Or lack there of? Is it just us in the Mopar crowd that use bigger sized tires? I've accepted the fact that no one makes "good" tires for 15" anymore... fine, so I'm prepared to go buy new rims in 17" or 18". Sure is frustrating when you research tires... find a "good one" then find out it's not available in the sizes you want? Is it that we are such a small segment that it's not feasible to make "musclecar" sizing compared to tuner cars? I've been watching for over a year now on the hype of the BFG Rival's and how great they are going to be , blah blah ....STILL a year later not sizing? Still seems to be for me Falkens are the only option? Some competition sure would be nice! Next thing will be, I bite the bullet, and buy the rims ,then a year or two down the road find the size I bought is no longer being made? Happened to me in the 15" Firestone Indy 500's
I dont understand this? The Rivals come in pretty much any size we could need. BFG is usually better than most that way, though they seem to quickly pull some sizes as they go. They come in more sizes than the Falkens, which only go up to 315.
I do get the frustration though... you read all these reviews, and the best performers usually have the worst size range. For years Bridgestones were at the top ov Tire Rack's charts, but that company just wont make a really wide tire, ever.
Its not just old Mopars that want these tires... Its OEM spec on Vipers, for one, maybe other supercars too? Plus with all these super custom builds and 'pro-touring' (ugh) customs coming out every day, those 335's show up a lot more than you'd think they would. Maybe not EVERY model needs to come out in a 14" wide size, but i think the demand is there for a few more. Then again, i also think some killer Y or Z-rated 15's in muscle car sizes would sell too. MANY old car guys will never warm up to the no-sidewall look... and only go to 17's and 18's because they absolutely have to.
By the way, i was on Firestone site last night and they still list that 500 tire as a product. Still just an S-rated tire though.
I guess I'm one of those " old car guys?" I'm wanting a 27" (18" rim) rear tire 11.5-12" sec width. I know the rubber band look is best for handling but it's just not me. I still have to look at the car the other 90% of the time it's not on a track! 
I've never really been a fan of BFG's, I guess I'm jaded by the BFG T/A hockey pucks.
Yes your right, they still do sell firestone 500's but they are not available in raised white lettering like my previous tires. Not that it really matters at this point as I've decided on new rims and tires anyway, just my point is tire companies do not seem to keep the same tire around long. When you wear out or damage a tire your buying 4 instead of just one or two.
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/29/13 02:36 PM
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I guess I'm one of those " old car guys?" I'm wanting a 27" (18" rim) rear tire 11.5-12" sec width. I know the rubber band look is best for handling but it's just not me.
I hear ya. Its too bad there is not support in this area, but, ultimately, the OEMs will drive sizing the manufacturers make to a much greater degree than all of us combined. For this reason, I would look at fitting OEM sizes to my car if I was going to bigger diameter rims. This means 255, 275, or 335 as these were offered on many 'Stangs, Vettes and Vipers for many, many years. The tire guys will continue to make sizing for OEM applications long after custom "boutique" sizes fall by the wayside.
Posted By: Rapom65
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/29/13 06:17 PM
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the OEMs will drive sizing the manufacturers make to a much greater degree than all of us combined. For this reason, I would look at fitting OEM sizes to my car if I was going to bigger diameter rims.
Precisely. Like Brads70 I'm looking to make the move to 17s or 18s due to the lack of available good performing wide 15s. So 5 or 10 years down the road are we all going to have to switch to 19, 20 or even larger rims to get tires? There is a limit to what these old cars can take.
Posted By: Viol8r
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/29/13 10:22 PM
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If you go to a real event, you are going against guys with 300+ all the way around their car.
I don't know, I was at a few "real" events this year and the fast cars were all running 200's. The only notable running 300's is Popp and I believe he is on a Michelin deal.
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But I also run a 19, so maybe this is not my place to talk.
The Dunlop is available in 19 and runs large. Might be worth a look.
Sorry I was referring to the size not the compound.
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/30/13 02:11 AM
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the OEMs will drive sizing the manufacturers make to a much greater degree than all of us combined. For this reason, I would look at fitting OEM sizes to my car if I was going to bigger diameter rims.
Precisely. Like Brads70 I'm looking to make the move to 17s or 18s due to the lack of available good performing wide 15s. So 5 or 10 years down the road are we all going to have to switch to 19, 20 or even larger rims to get tires? There is a limit to what these old cars can take.
This is a very real concern. I was one ov the very first muscle car guys (that i saw/knew about anyways) that went to a 16" rim. I put some 16x8" Welds on my 72 Rallye Challenger years and years ago. I got a lot ov grief for that, but i didn't care... the thing stuck like glue. If i could get wider tires than 255/50/16 it would have looked pretty damn cool, as it was it didn't look that bad. I said then i'd never go 17" though. That would just look silly.
Now, decades later, here i am wishing they still made stuff in 17". You can still get a couple models in 315 or 335/17 size, but thats it. 3 years from now? maybe one. Pirelli P-Zero will always come in every size under the sun, but who cares? its not a great tire, and they cost $2700 each. I got into a lovely 'debate' with a well-known used tire guy here over the price ov some used Pirellis. The retard wanted almost $700 EACH... for his very used tires... that had been sitting for a decade in the pile. His argument was that his retail on them was $900+.
Anyways... 17" are now drying up, and 18" is the absolute upper outer limit for what looks good on an old car. Personally... i think 18"s are pushing it. Pretty soon all the customs will be using 19"s, 20"s... to take advantage ov the state ov the art tire tech, and most reasonable prices. What then? I wanted 17"s for my Challenger... but now i have to go 18" because i cant find much used in 17".
Its all relative i guess. Maybe those 50's hotrodders hated the look ov the G60's and N50's... which must have looked like rubber bands to them too. Maybe they said they'd NEVER put a 50-series on the ol' 32 3-window. One bonus though... if the aftermarket continues to embrace this hobby the way its doing, perhaps a new company will step up and fill this need? The more we get railroaded into the bigger and bigger diameters, the more the hobby may backlash, and a demand could truly arise.
Posted By: Skeptic
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/30/13 02:36 AM
It's good to see some through testing using a big Mopar, instead of a newer lighter car. I'd like to see the tires in a 255/50-17 or 255/45-18- ie 27" dia. For a driver car NVH is a factor as is wet handling and to a lesser extent, tread life. I'm not expecting super long life on my TW 260 Nitto Invos, but they are reported to be quiet and handle well wet and dry. I can accept a rumbly exhaust, but loud tires annoy me to no end. If I get the bug for autoX I'd probably get a set of dedicated tires for track only use.
Posted By: brads70
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/30/13 12:26 PM
So.... I sent DUNLOP a e-mail asking them if they have any plans on making the ZII in bigger sizes.295/40/18 Here is the reply...
"
From: goodyear_cr@goodyear.com on 10/29/2013 01:01 PM
Sent by: Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company Consumer Relations 728 1144 East
Market Street Akron, OH 44316 Voice #: 800.321.2136 Fax #:
330.796.6829
Mr. Richmond,
Thank you for contacting our web site and considering Dunlop for your
replacement tire needs. There currently are no plans to make the ZII in
this size, but, I will forward your email to Marketing for consideration.
Jennifer - Consumer Relations
"
I didn't know Dunlop was owned by Goodyear?
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/30/13 02:11 PM
Rivals it is then!
Posted By: tallzag
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/30/13 06:38 PM
Been using the star spec Dunlops in Lemons for years and they have always been fantastic tires. Lots of grip and the wear pretty good too. We usually get about a race and a half out of a set (average about 14 hours per race with a few 24's mixed in).
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/31/13 06:09 AM
What I like seeing is how well that 4-door B-body hugs the road. Holy crap!
If that's how a '70 Satellite handles with a TVS, I wonder how my Dart would handle with the proper tire sizes.
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/31/13 02:41 PM
Quote:
What I like seeing is how well that 4-door B-body hugs the road. Holy crap! If that's how a '70 Satellite handles with a TVS, I wonder how my Dart would handle with the proper tire sizes.
We spend a lot of time tuning our system, and are very happy with the results. A well balanced package can turn any 2 door or 4 door into a car that is an absolute riot to drive. An A body would be lighter and faster!
Posted By: B-Body Bull
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 10/31/13 04:59 PM
An old Plymouth can handle with the best of them.
Posted By: PHJ426
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/07/13 02:44 PM
Here is the 2012 Boss 302 stock with factory supplied Pirelli P Zero tires.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exM1CNsVimY
Posted By: 72440CUDA
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/08/13 03:19 AM
Quote:
Rivals it is then!
I noticed a lot of the Optima Ultimate Street cars at SEMA running the Rivals. 315's on 12" wide rims at all four corners 
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/08/13 04:33 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Rivals it is then!
I noticed a lot of the Optima Ultimate Street cars at SEMA running the Rivals. 315's on 12" wide rims at all four corners
Most of them were there because of the size and the fact they were probably free or cheap enough to make using another just $tupid. BFG knows where there bread is buttered....
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/08/13 04:42 AM
Quote:
An old Plymouth can handle with the best of them.
I owned a 38 Plymouth that couldn't handle with a shopping cart.
that old enough?
Posted By: B-Body Bull
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/08/13 03:09 PM
Quote:
Quote:
An old Plymouth can handle with the best of them.
I owned a 38 Plymouth that couldn't handle with a shopping cart.
that old enough?
http://api.ning.com/files/fU2NFG8xHHH2SL...5.jpg?width=721 replica model with dodge Hemi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxKzLkt3_D4 Says it is a 38 Plymouth near the end of the video.
http://www.cottonowens.com/images/Cotton_pics/70A.jpg
Posted By: Mopar Mitch
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/08/13 11:22 PM
Posted By: JimDiesel
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/09/13 06:18 PM
The 285/35/18 is only 25.9 inches in diameter.
They look too small on a B body imo.
I haven't found too many larger sizes for these tires.
It looks like the best bet would be either the:
BFG Rival 295/35/18 = 26.1 inch diameter
Falken 295/40/18 = 27.2 inch diameter
The Nittos come in 295/45/18 but didn't test well.
All thing being equal, for handling is a square setup is better than staggered?
Thoughts on if a 295/40/18 would fit on the front of a b body?
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/10/13 03:53 AM
Quote:
The 285/35/18 is only 25.9 inches in diameter.
They look too small on a B body imo.
I haven't found too many larger sizes for these tires.
It looks like the best bet would be either the:
BFG Rival 295/35/18 = 26.1 inch diameter
Falken 295/40/18 = 27.2 inch diameter
The Nittos come in 295/45/18 but didn't test well.
All thing being equal, for handling is a square setup is better than staggered?
Thoughts on if a 295/40/18 would fit on the front of a b body?
The Nitto 295 probably didn't test well because it was as wide as every other brands 265. Dont buy Nittos.
I would say that a square set-up would be superior. F1 aside, most truly extreme classes end up with square set-ups, as do most ov the really fast cars (actually fast cars, not just hyped ones) i've read about. Staggered i think is done either for the look/stance, or because most cars just have less space up front.
Never owned a pre-71 B-body, but again from what i've seen, a 285-295 will fit up front. You may want the shorter tire though, height/diameter is a space-eater just as much as width. I've seen 285/50 and 295/50 (equivalents) up front on a 68-70 B, and thats on a 15" rim, where backspace would be absolutely crucial. On an 18" rim you get quite a bit more leeway, on an E-body anyways. Cant see it being different. You may have to cut/bend some sheetmetal, or other mods to make it work, but the space is there.
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/10/13 05:40 AM
Quote:
The 285/35/18 is only 25.9 inches in diameter.
They look too small on a B body imo.
I haven't found too many larger sizes for these tires.
It looks like the best bet would be either the:
BFG Rival 295/35/18 = 26.1 inch diameter
Falken 295/40/18 = 27.2 inch diameter
The Nittos come in 295/45/18 but didn't test well.
All thing being equal, for handling is a square setup is better than staggered?
Thoughts on if a 295/40/18 would fit on the front of a b body?
Fitting 295/40/18 615K's on the front of my Road Runner now. I like a car squared up. And I prefer to not have the rears more than 20 aspect difference.
Posted By: RylisPro
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/10/13 01:04 PM
Would anyone know if 295/35-18 Rivals would fit in the front wheel wells of an Ebody 73 Cuda to be exact? I was planning to get 275/35-18 fronts and 295/35-18 in the Rivals but would rather do 295s all around
Thanks
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/10/13 04:29 PM
Sandgerg's Cuda has at least a 11" wide tire on the front of his AAR. Dan cool to see you going to that fatty on the front. Im in the middle of refinishing my engine compartment and while im doing it im going to minitub the front and notch the frame rails a little just in case.
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/10/13 04:40 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
An old Plymouth can handle with the best of them.
I owned a 38 Plymouth that couldn't handle with a shopping cart.
that old enough?
http://api.ning.com/files/fU2NFG8xHHH2SL...5.jpg?width=721
Two things, it's newer than a 38 and it's not real.
A 38 Plymouth pass car has a solid front axle with parallel leafs. Sits up nice and high. Its more of a truck than a car suspensionwise.
Now with lots of time and another suspension it could handle better.
Posted By: RylisPro
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/10/13 05:12 PM
Quote:
Sandgerg's Cuda has at least a 11" wide tire on the front of his AAR. Dan cool to see you going to that fatty on the front. Im in the middle of refinishing my engine compartment and while im doing it im going to minitub the front and notch the frame rails a little just in case.
Sandberg's Cuda also has fender flares. Sorry I wasn't specific. Can a 295 Rival fit a stock Ebody Cuda front fender without much modifications?
Thanks
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/10/13 07:14 PM
I cant say, I dont have an E-body. Do what I do, just get the tire you want to run and MAKE it work.
Posted By: PHJ426
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/10/13 08:11 PM
Get the tool to see what fits your car. Or to find out what you have to move to make it fit.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Percy%26%23039%3Bs/760/01201/10002/-1
Posted By: BigBlockMopar
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/10/13 10:45 PM
Just for S&G I once put 325/50/15 tires on the front of my '67 Newport.
Steamrolling around the corners... lol
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/11/13 12:04 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Sandgerg's Cuda has at least a 11" wide tire on the front of his AAR. Dan cool to see you going to that fatty on the front. Im in the middle of refinishing my engine compartment and while im doing it im going to minitub the front and notch the frame rails a little just in case.
Sandberg's Cuda also has fender flares. Sorry I wasn't specific. Can a 295 Rival fit a stock Ebody Cuda front fender without much modifications?
Thanks
A 'wide 295' will fit up front on a 70 Challenger. The Cuda should be the same, but DONT ASSUME (71 Charger allows a bigger tire than a 71 RR for instance, on EVERY corner). There will be mods, but no flares or hacked fenders. Should be able to do it 'invisibly'. I never got to check when i still had my 70 Cuda though.
Posted By: ahy
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/13/13 05:21 AM
"Can a wide 295 fit on an Ebody...". I think it depends on what you mean by fit. I am running 235/45/17 on the front of my '70 Challenger with factory "hemi style" rolled fenders. It "fits" in the sense I can remove Tbars and cycle the suspension through full left, right, jounce and rebound and still have "one thumb (my calibrated hand)" clearance with the frame rails and steel fender in extreme situations. Bigger would not fit by the same criteria. In fact the tire has clipped the aluminum wheel trim that is not made for the rolled or relieved fenders so it is close. How close is OK? Folks running wider rubber either flare the fenders or accept possibility of some rub I believe. In any case, max width requires close match of wheel backspace to the car.
Posted By: Mopar Mitch
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/13/13 08:07 AM
I don't think a 295 would fit unless its low profile (35-30) and diamter low, too, like with a 17-18 rim... and with a perfectly centered rim within the wheel well.. and mandatory folded and/or slightly flaired fender lips... all further pending the ride height setup (lowered, raised, etc).. assuming you want that "Cuda (or Chally) relatively low. I run 275-45-16 Hoosiers for racing/autocross, the rims are 16x10 (5" backspace.. extending out just a bit towards the fenders).. and the lips are rolled, pulled a little but still appear stock (my SCCA E/SP solo class does allow full fender flairs if desired). With the stiff suspension (1.24 TBs and Red Konis), the car doesn't lift or dive much at all.. and the tires never touch the lips front or rear (at least not for long moments).
A 275 wide tire is plenty... of course you can go and fit those 295 tires with some effort and appropriate mods... its up to you... heck, just go for 315 front and 335 rear.
I believe the 'Cuda e-body offers a slight bit less room front and rear vs the Challenger's tires space within the fenders.
Sorry.. you'll have to open the attachment to see my picture of 275-45-16 Hoosier race tires in front.
Posted By: Mopar Mitch
Re: Tire Testing with Hot Rod, Tire Rack and Hotchkis VIDEO - 11/13/13 08:12 AM
And see this attachment of the rear 275-45-16 tires.... sorry.. you have to open the attachment.
