Moparts
Building a curvy car
Posted By: joshking440
Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 12:39 PM
Whats the absolute best suspension for the mopar?
67-74 A Body
Is it Alterkation and Street Lynx rear or leafs and Hotchkis components
The car will make 800+ hp with a paired small turbos
Posted By: 340duster340
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 01:32 PM
what is your budget? and does it have to be bolt on stuff?
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 02:06 PM
It does not have to be bolt on.
I have full fabrication capabilities at my disposal, but.... The car is completely painted.... So my first choice is bolt on or mostly bolt on.
I dont have a budget because I dont know what it should cost.
Posted By: Skeptic
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 02:26 PM
The Street Lynx is not a bolt in, but the 4-link/triangulated 4-link coilover design is better than the buggy springs. For the front I's stick with the stock design, either Hotchkis or Firm Feel. There are plenty of threads on the Alter-K and similar style conversions, lots of mud slinging but I've never read about anyone that was unhappy about Bill's stuff that HAD it in their car. By the time you get the top end brakes on it you are getting to $6300 and it still has Mustang II spindles.
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 04:01 PM
Quote:
Whats the absolute best suspension for the mopar?
67-74 A Body
Is it Alterkation and Street Lynx rear or leafs and Hotchkis components
The car will make 800+ hp with a paired small turbos
Tough question to answer satisfactorily based on just this information. More relevent info would be track types, race types, sanctioning body rules, etc. "Best" largely becomes dependant upon those three conditions rather than body style or horsepower levels.
With a pair of turbos, I'd assume it is an open track day exercise with no governing body or rules restrictions, therefore anything is possible. Do you plan on tuning the suspension or just bolting it on and hitting the tarmac?
Bolt on stock replacement stuff that refines the OEM design can be put together for around $2500-3500 complete on both ends. Stepping up to lightweight frame members, coil overs, or air spring arrangements with multi adjustable shocks will start around $4500-5000 per end of the car.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 05:28 PM
Quote:
Whats the absolute best suspension for the mopar?
...
Very open ended question.
Would be like someone calling Indy and just asking one and only one thing, "What is the absolute best motor for my Mopar?"
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 05:47 PM
No Sanctioning body, no real plans.
I want a car I can drive from Indy to Vegas at 200mph if I want to.
Ride good handle good do donuts good.... just an all around real fun car
Posted By: Viol8r
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 06:19 PM
Quote:
No Sanctioning body, no real plans.
I want a car I can drive from Indy to Vegas at 200mph if I want to.
Ride good handle good do donuts good.... just an all around real fun car
Give us an idea of your current knowledge on how to build cars so we know where to take this. Building what you are describing would be breaking some new ground in the Mopar world. It is very difficult to build an efficient handling car with a twin turbo 800 HP combination on an older chassis platform.
Sounds fun though.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 06:31 PM
Quote:
Quote:
No Sanctioning body, no real plans.
I want a car I can drive from Indy to Vegas at 200mph if I want to.
Ride good handle good do donuts good.... just an all around real fun car
Give us an idea of your current knowledge on how to build cars so we know where to take this. Building what you are describing would be breaking some new ground in the Mopar world. ...
Breaking ground by taking that comment literal to driving 1000+ miles at 200 mph or just runing up to 200 mph at points like Siver State Classic type stuff?? While having an all around car. By that, I agree.
But, I don't know how to interpet that comment myself.
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 06:52 PM
The stock suspension will work pretty well up to about 150-160 mph. The biggest issue is that you run out of suspension travel when you lower the car. The car needs to be lower for aero as well as CG and looks, but the torsion bar setup doesn't have much room once you lower it.
Other than that issue, the double wishbone torsion bar front and the short front leaf rear suspension is a good combo. Good enough that TA and NASCAR used it for a long time.
Tim's Valiant has about all the tricks necessary for high speed track days. Eberg's Brick doesn't have quite so many tricks but it stills hauls the mail. I'm not aware of any A-body with tons of tricks that works better than either Tim's car or Eberg's, but they could exist. I certainly don't know about every A-body Mopar in the country!
Here is one article on Tim's car. There are several more in Mopar Muscle. Just go to the MM website and search on my name.
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techa...ep/viewall.html
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 07:12 PM
Well leaves are out with that kind of power so figure on a Street Lynx tri 4 bar type or an Art Morrison watts/3 link would the cats ass IMO. Some big T-bars,swaybar, Hotchkis Fox shocks or Ridetech adjustables up front. Which A body? Tire selection isnt the same across the board for all A bodies so that is another thing to figure in. I have 275 front and 335 rear tires on my 72 Dart and think a 285 could fit in the front with some steering limiting.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 07:54 PM
Quote:
The stock suspension will work pretty well up to about 150-160 mph. The biggest issue is that you run out of suspension travel when you lower the car. The car needs to be lower for aero as well as CG and looks, but the torsion bar setup doesn't have much room once you lower it.
Other than that issue, the double wishbone torsion bar front and the short front leaf rear suspension is a good combo. Good enough that TA and NASCAR used it for a long time.
Tim's Valiant has about all the tricks necessary for high speed track days. Eberg's Brick doesn't have quite so many tricks but it stills hauls the mail. I'm not aware of any A-body with tons of tricks that works better than either Tim's car or Eberg's, but they could exist. I certainly don't know about every A-body Mopar in the country!
Here is one article on Tim's car. There are several more in Mopar Muscle. Just go to the MM website and search on my name.
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techa...ep/viewall.html
Although in my experiance, off the shelf full length headers will be the limit of lowering on the street before the suspension. TTI and Dougs included.
Posted By: Skeptic
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 08:27 PM
Quote:
No Sanctioning body, no real plans.
I want a car I can drive from Indy to Vegas at 200mph if I want to.
Ride good handle good do donuts good.... just an all around real fun car
With that in mind you may as well talk to a chassis builder that is building NASCAR cars and build a full frame car. Tim's car certainly "an all around real fun car" but he would have to comment about driving it @ 200 on the street, though I have my doubts about the areo on any old car short of a Superbird. There was someone that built a 2nd gen Barracuda for a high speed run and ended up changing the nose completely- ended up looking like a late Firebird. It was in the usual car rags a few years ago. The classic a-body noses are too high for good areo.
Posted By: Skeptic
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 08:31 PM
Quote:
...although in my experience, off the shelf full length headers will be the limit of lowering on the street before the suspension. TTI and Dougs included.
With a pair of hairdryers, full length headers won't be a problem, though getting all that plumbing in an a-body will be another issue.
Posted By: 67autocross
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 08:51 PM
These guys have lots of 800-1000 hp car running around.
http://schwartzperformance.com/chassis/
Posted By: Mopar Mitch
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 10:56 PM
Josh -- Are you considering modifying your current twin-turbo Duster (?) for improved hwy driving, road course events, Canon Ball, etc? Or else, starting with an all new base car?... (You already know how to stuff twin turbos into an A-body with a BB engine... O/D trans will be a must.) A/C would be nice to have..;<)).. especially if driving out to Vegas from Indy... perhaps for MATS?... oh yeh, just also plan on the California Spring Fling to do their hi-speed road course event!!!
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 10:57 PM
Quote:
Quote:
...although in my experience, off the shelf full length headers will be the limit of lowering on the street before the suspension. TTI and Dougs included.
With a pair of hairdryers, full length headers won't be a problem, though getting all that plumbing in an a-body will be another issue.
Forgot about that. Good point.
Just hope he doesn't have any plumbing lower than the plane of the bottom of the K-member 
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/07/13 11:58 PM
My other car I built
So I'm not scared of anything as far as building it.
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 12:01 AM
This what I'm thinking kinda
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 12:05 AM
This is what I'm starting with
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 12:06 AM
I think I will call it "Formula X"
Posted By: jcc
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 12:11 AM
If not changing your underwear every mile or or more importantly surviving to share your experience, IMO you will be spending as much time on aero tweaks to get the car under control as you spend on the motor and suspension. A full scale wind tunnel will prevent twisting up a lot metal for a road mannered 200 mph car. And at this level your nearing the expertise found on this site, but heck, have at it.
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 01:09 AM
Sweet looking rides you posted.
I'll be honest, when you mentioned 800hp twin turbo I thought "internet wannabe".
I'm happy to admit I am wrong. As for budget, it appears that you do things right and it costs what it costs. If so you have options hackers like me do not.
I look forward to this build's progress.
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 01:43 AM
Well I can only take the credit for the dumb ideas I have and driving myself crazy try to pay for these things.
My 2 best friends are Joe Fitzpatrick head fabricator at Don Schumacher Racing and Mike Roth of Mr2Performance race cars so I'm kinda luck. And I work at Indy Cylinder Head.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 02:54 AM
Quote:
This is what I'm starting with
Is it minitubbed?
In the front, you could fit 275/40/17 or 275/35/18 with about 5.5" backspacing. But you will have to roll/bent/cut the front bottom fender for clearance. IMHO even a little wider tire if top lipped rolled and top fender bracket pushed out.
But since it's allready painted, that might not be an option to you?
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 03:21 AM
Quote:
No Sanctioning body, no real plans.
I want a car I can drive from Indy to Vegas at 200mph if I want to.
Ride good handle good do donuts good.... just an all around real fun car
Well shoot, all you really need is some big fat tires, massive brakes, Fox shocks, and wrist thick sway bars. You're set, hit it!
In all seriousness though, you might want a Morrison Max G full frame conversion for simplicity. They even have them for A bodies. With all that big block weight on the nose, You'll need to converse with these guys, and your buddies maybe, about the correct roll couple percentages to keep things manageable so the shiny side stays up.
200 mph, hmm, maybe for a split second on a run but not for any duration in a stock body Cuda. If your willing to cut and mod the bod, maybe then you could sustain it.
Posted By: amxautox
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 03:35 AM
Quote:
Quote:
No Sanctioning body, no real plans.
I want a car I can drive from Indy to Vegas at 200mph if I want to.
Ride good handle good do donuts good.... just an all around real fun car
Well shoot, all you really need is some big fat tires, massive brakes, Fox shocks, and wrist thick sway bars. You're set, hit it!
In all seriousness though, you might want a Morrison Max G full frame conversion for simplicity. They even have them for A bodies. With all that big block weight on the nose, You'll need to converse with these guys, and your buddies maybe, about the correct roll couple percentages to keep things manageable so the shiny side stays up.
200 mph, hmm, maybe for a split second on a run but not for any duration in a stock body Cuda. If your willing to cut and mod the bod, maybe then you could sustain it.
Like this?
Posted By: amxautox
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 03:36 AM
Posted By: jcc
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 03:40 AM
Quote:
200 mph, hmm, maybe for a split second on a run but not for any duration in a stock body Cuda. If your willing to cut and mod the bod, maybe then you could sustain it.
IMO At 200mph that body shape will generate so much lift in the rear there will be no way to put down 800hp to get to 200mph, unless going downhill, of course if we add big wings/spoilers, he'll need a heavier RB to hold the front end down, or go to a ground hugging front splitter, but then car is no longer streetable as OP desired, and have a lot more then 800hp to push all the wing added drag, and tires don't really matter until he's ready to turn or brake. Wasn't this whole topic covered in a recent mopar mag with a full blown cup car, which has little if anything in common with this fastback brick? 
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 03:51 AM
I guess I didn't know how literal you road race guys were.
200mph was just an expression.
The 800hp is for 60mph rolling burnouts.
If it will run 170 or so I'll be happy....until I get passed by a vette or something
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 03:55 AM
So I called Bill Reilly and bought his front and rear units today.
I ordered them minus shocks and ordered santhuffs for it.
I also ordered a aluminum gen 3 Hemi block 6.4 heads and a Winberg crank
That will be it for a while.
Brakes and wheels and tires are next.
How big can I get under this with out cutting it up. 325 or so? Rearend width can change
Posted By: jcc
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 04:20 AM
Quote:
I guess I didn't know how literal you road race guys were.
200mph was just an expression.
The 800hp is for 60mph rolling burnouts.
If it will run 170 or so I'll be happy....until I get passed by a vette or something
Now we are making progress.
And if a vette passes you when doing 170, I would quote Sean Connery speaking to Harrison Ford in the 3rd Indiana Jones movie, "let it go, Jr."
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 04:31 AM
Mini tub and 335s shouldnt be a stretch with stock frame rails. 18x12 wheels are pretty much flush with that tires sidewall.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 04:35 AM
Quote:
...
How big can I get under this with out cutting it up. 325 or so? Rearend width can change
Up front, it depends on how much backspacing with what diameter rim you can use on a Reily front end.
I could barely fit a 245/50/15 tire with 15x8 rims 4.5" backspace on my 68 Barracuda with stock front fenders. Those are 27.8" diameter. Equal in diameter to a 245/40/17.
IIRC, the RMS front end moves the rotor face outward. So you have to ask Bill how much more outward it is from a 1973-76 big bolt pattern disk brake setup (what I had).
My pure guess is you'll need something around a 6.0" backspace 17x8" rim with 245/40/17 tire. Just an initial guess. You need to get spec from Bill.
In the rear, is it allready minitubbed? Are you againsted mini tubbing it?
In the rear without touching anything you can fit a 275 back there.
Posted By: Viol8r
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 07:58 AM
OK, so you know what you are doing!!
You will be fine. Enjoy the build, it should be a something else! You may struggle to find forward bite with all that HP, but you may just have to ease into it off the corners...
My buddy is building a '67 Notchback Cuda with an EFI 360 and Hotchkis suspension. Viper brakes all the way around. A little tamer then your build but a good all around car. I will show him the pics of your car, he will be envious.
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 12:33 PM
The car will utilize an AEM Infinity efi set up with wheel speed sensors (traction control) so I think that will help my forward movement. I just have to figure out how to quickly turn it off when I don't want it.
Also the seats are a big concern of mine. I'm not going to do a flashy modern interior. It's going to utilize all the stock stuff. Dash and carpet gauge cluster and everything else. But I'm not sold on putting new car interior in these older cars. Is there a bucket that will keep you in place but doesn't look to fast and furious.
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 04:21 PM
Quote:
Like this?
Uhh, hardly.
Quote:
IMO At 200mph that body shape will generate so much lift in the rear there will be no way to put down 800hp to get to 200mph, unless going downhill, of course if we add big wings/spoilers, he'll need a heavier RB to hold the front end down,
Thats why I said "maybe" for a split second. SS/AH cars are at 150+ in stock bodies and a flat rear spoiler. With some mild alterations you could push on to 200, for a brief instant. I never said you would necessarily walk away from such a run... But if you want to sustain it, then things will certainly get more radical and probably end up looking more like a Pro Mod type of body.
Quote:
I guess I didn't know how literal you road race guys were.
200mph was just an expression.
The 800hp is for 60mph rolling burnouts.
If it will run 170 or so I'll be happy....until I get passed by a vette or something
Lets put it into a context you may be familiar with...I call up Indy on the phone and say I want a 500 inch mill that will make 1000 horsepower under 10,000 rpm for an hour at a time without boost. It must live on pump gas and idle smooth enough to drive on the street. My budget is $25k. What would your answer be? The request is pushing the limits, but possible. You likely would ask me for variables on what I may be willing to compromise on, fuel, price, power, where can I give a little to make things work. You threw out a similar type of request wrapped up in a chassis package. Should the response be literal or laughable?
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 05:20 PM
Quote:
...
Also the seats are a big concern of mine. I'm not going to do a flashy modern interior. It's going to utilize all the stock stuff. Dash and carpet gauge cluster and everything else. But I'm not sold on putting new car interior in these older cars. Is there a bucket that will keep you in place but doesn't look to fast and furious.
Scat Procar Rally.
I have older Elite in full vinyl in mine right now. They are nice, but the full vinyl is slipery and they have less side bolstering on the seat back than a Rally model. A cloth insert would hold me in the seat much better and be more comfortable cruising on a hot day.
Posted By: Mopar Mitch
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/08/13 10:57 PM
I' suggest seat selection should be made by actually sitting in a few different seats and determined what fits and feels suitable/comfortable to your own body size .... trade shows typically offer manufacturer's display units, or even at car shows. What fits one person doesn't fit another, etc. I shopped for a couple years before making a decision... did that twice (once for a true "competition" race seat, the later for more everyday type performance seat. Most of the factory seats from our cars just don't offer sufficient lateral support.
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/09/13 01:39 AM
I was only being a little boisterous about the top speed thing.
I understand the variables you are speaking of. I just am trying to get the options on the table to understand.
Do you guys as a group prefer power steering or manual?
Posted By: jcc
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/09/13 01:54 AM
Speaking only for myself, big tires in front PS a must under 70 mph for aggressive driving, over, manual can work, but I would still choose PS. At 800 Hp only downside is routing, hoses, belts, with turbos, etc.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/09/13 03:47 AM
Quote:
Do you guys as a group prefer power steering or manual?
How about power steering that responds and feels like a fast ratio manual setup?
Thats my preference anyway.
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/09/13 01:17 PM
Does that exist?
Posted By: Nate K
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/09/13 01:58 PM
This is the only thing I can think of that would give you manual feel with power steering.
http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0018/s0001/FR40105If you want a nice driving car I think it will need power steering. I run 245/17 with 7degrees of caster and the factory power requires more effort. If you are planning a smaller steering wheel and sticky tires power would be a must for me.
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/09/13 02:04 PM
Flaming river box feels great for road race type driving and it is super comfortable at 120+ but I plan to do some parking lot stuff and with a manual trans it will handicap me so a Borgeson from Peter is next.
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/09/13 03:24 PM
My option is a power rack or manual rack as I'm going alterkation.
This is the stance I am looking for... Not so much the wheel choice though.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/09/13 03:47 PM
Quote:
My option is a power rack or manual rack as I'm going alterkation.
This is the stance I am looking for... Not so much the wheel choice though.
Power rack.
This guy ran at the Silver State Classic in Nevada about 12 years back. He had mechanica issues so he DNF but the car looked mostly right for flat out running on a paved highway.
There's a HUGE difference between a sustained 160mph build and a 200+ build. The word "stock" gets less and less accurate the faster you go.
Rear
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/09/13 05:03 PM
Quote:
There's a HUGE difference between a sustained 160mph build and a 200+ build. The word "stock" gets less and less accurate the faster you go.
He said the 200 mph was not to be taken as a literal comment.
The Dart is nothing but a 68 Dart body skin hung on a full tube Circle Track chassis with a Mopar motor. Basically a kit car. But not an old Mopar "kit car", those actually had Mopar like suspension.
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/09/13 05:06 PM
well that dart looks like it would be tons of fun to drive...
but not for very long or very slow i imagine
Quote:
He said the 200 mph was not to be taken as a literal comment.
The Dart is nothing but a 68 Dart body skin hung on a full tube Circle Track chassis with a Mopar motor. Basically a kit car. But not an old Mopar "kit car", those actually had Mopar like suspension.
Obviously...
I'm interrested in this thread because like Josh, I'd like to do a full suspension build on my own (currently stock) Duster, although mine will be a bolt on only combo and hence, will it be performance limited due to the lack of chassis rigidity, etc. a welded frame connected, roll caged, etc. car can offer, not to mention tire clearance issues with stock wheel wells. That said I am aware of most current offerings and am still not sold on any one companies package as the "end all" of bolt in suspension improvement kits. Basically you have Firm Feel, Hotchkis, or the most recent entrant, Q1A. I'm going to hold onto my wallet until I learn more about all of them.
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/09/13 08:05 PM
Well I hope to get this thing done pretty quickly.
It's 4 weeks until my alterkation stuff is ready.
Then the assembly will start.
I have to find a Trans by then too. I'm thinking t56 son of tranzilla
Posted By: abodyjoe
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/09/13 11:33 PM
Go with the power rack. You'll love it.
I had the manual rack first. It was great but once I went to the power rack I would never even consider the manual rack again. Power is so much nicer
Posted By: 67Charger
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/10/13 01:00 AM
I've run this thing in the Silver State Classic at over 140 and she gets quite light on the front... This is the beginning of a no-mod-to-the-body add on air dam to scrape some of the air out from under the car.
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Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/10/13 01:41 AM
That is badass ^^^^^^ I have thought of adding some kind of air extractors at the rear of the hood. What peoples thoughts? Seems you need air through the radiator but why keep it trapped in the engine compartment?
Posted By: jcc
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/10/13 01:56 AM
My thoughts, the only real low pressure area on a hood at speed is,in your case roughly about where the radiator cap is, not an easy area to vent, additionally, there likely is no high pressure area under the hood to begin with that needs extracting. At speed radiator airflow needs are somewhat reduced anyway, so blocking off some of the grille intake is a plus. 67charger is on the right path, for bang for buck, however his rear end now is going to get lighter by what ever increase in front end downforce he achieves, It never ends.
Posted By: 67Charger
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/10/13 05:19 AM
The rear will eventually be getting about a 3" kicker right at the end of the trunk lid. I have enough gap between the trunk lid and the quarters to get some uprights snaked though there.
This car will likely top out in the 150 class with a max allowable speed of 165. I have enough engine to pull higher speeds, but the cage requirements start getting really invasive for a full interior weekend cruiser. Not to mention the requisite brake system upgrades beyond what I'm already running. Anything faster will be in a dedicated car.
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/11/13 12:14 AM
The car may get a small trick carbon fiber wing and wicker bill if I can do it tastefully
Posted By: dodgeboy11
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/11/13 01:37 AM
Quote:
In all seriousness though, you might want a Morrison Max G full frame conversion for simplicity. They even have them for A bodies. With all that big block weight on the nose, You'll need to converse with these guys, and your buddies maybe, about the correct roll couple percentages to keep things manageable so the shiny side stays up.
200 mph, hmm, maybe for a split second on a run but not for any duration in a stock body Cuda. If your willing to cut and mod the bod, maybe then you could sustain it.
These guys seem to do ok with a fairly stock bodied camaro.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEDeorDvrsE
Notice I say stock bodied, I believe it has a cup car underneath the skin, but it still has to overcome the aerodynamics of a '69 camaro. I personally think this car is one of the baddest on earth, even if it is a chevy.
Posted By: krautrock
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/13/13 09:30 PM
damn, that charger is awesome.
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/13/13 10:53 PM
Quote:
These guys seem to do ok with a fairly stock bodied camaro.
Yup, and there are any number of stock bodied NMCA cars that touch 200 routinely as well in aerodynamics bricks like '57 chevys. Its entirely possible. To do it at a sustatined speed on the stock platform is another story entirely.
Posted By: dodgeboy11
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/14/13 01:54 AM
Quote:
Quote:
These guys seem to do ok with a fairly stock bodied camaro.
Yup, and there are any number of stock bodied NMCA cars that touch 200 routinely as well in aerodynamics bricks like '57 chevys. Its entirely possible. To do it at a sustatined speed on the stock platform is another story entirely.
Quite right. I missed all the talk about stock chassis and all that. I know that camaro is camaro in body only, I. Should know better than to comment when I haven't seen all the previous comments.
Posted By: 74yellowduster
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/14/13 07:12 PM
Quote:
That is badass ^^^^^^ I have thought of adding some kind of air extractors at the rear of the hood. What peoples thoughts? Seems you need air through the radiator but why keep it trapped in the engine compartment?
i had an old '68 dart 340. at 140mph the front floated, it felt like you were driving on a cloud. i had good shocks, so it was either the aerodynamics or the tires. or both. at that time i had BFG radial t/a's. i think they are rated for 88mph or something. at very high speeds they are not "stiff enough". you will definitely want rims/tires that have a good design for very high speeds. they will help control the float, along with a proper suspension setup and some aero setup. but dont underestimate the importance of the best rubber you can get under her. whatever tires you decide upon, imagine spinning them at a very high rpm...
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/15/13 03:48 AM
That yellow Dart is killer.
Posted By: 67Charger
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/15/13 05:20 AM
Quote:
Quote:
That is badass ^^^^^^ I have thought of adding some kind of air extractors at the rear of the hood. What peoples thoughts? Seems you need air through the radiator but why keep it trapped in the engine compartment?
i had an old '68 dart 340. at 140mph the front floated, it felt like you were driving on a cloud. i had good shocks, so it was either the aerodynamics or the tires. or both. at that time i had BFG radial t/a's. i think they are rated for 88mph or something. at very high speeds they are not "stiff enough". you will definitely want rims/tires that have a good design for very high speeds. they will help control the float, along with a proper suspension setup and some aero setup. but dont underestimate the importance of the best rubber you can get under her. whatever tires you decide upon, imagine spinning them at a very high rpm...
Yup, I was thinking drunk elephant on ice skates, but cloud works. The wheels are spinning in the neighborhood of 2000+ rpm. I run Bilsteins and good Goodyear -45 series W-rated tires on 17" wheels. The rubber and shocks are in order. Definitely air control is my biggest priority for this next run in May.
Posted By: PHJ426
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/17/13 12:53 AM
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Well I hope to get this thing done pretty quickly.
It's 4 weeks until my alterkation stuff is ready.
Then the assembly will start.
I have to find a Trans by then too. I'm thinking t56 son of tranzilla
Josh will you be running the car in the AutoCross at Monster Mopar this year?
Posted By: Billy B Bad
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/17/13 03:58 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Well I hope to get this thing done pretty quickly.
It's 4 weeks until my alterkation stuff is ready.
Then the assembly will start.
I have to find a Trans by then too. I'm thinking t56 son of tranzilla
Josh will you be running the car in the AutoCross at Monster Mopar this year?
If he does I HAVE to be there
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/18/13 12:01 PM
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In all seriousness though, you might want a Morrison Max G full frame conversion for simplicity. They even have them for A bodies. With all that big block weight on the nose, You'll need to converse with these guys, and your buddies maybe, about the correct roll couple percentages to keep things manageable so the shiny side stays up.
200 mph, hmm, maybe for a split second on a run but not for any duration in a stock body Cuda. If your willing to cut and mod the bod, maybe then you could sustain it.
These guys seem to do ok with a fairly stock bodied camaro.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEDeorDvrsE
Notice I say stock bodied, I believe it has a cup car underneath the skin, but it still has to overcome the aerodynamics of a '69 camaro. I personally think this car is one of the baddest on earth, even if it is a chevy.
BADDEST musclecar on the planet. No contest. And i really hate red first-gen Camaros...
I've had Big Red pics on my wall since i first read about it in the 80's. Its what my Challenger wants to be when it grows up.
On topic. I think the envelope has yet to be really pushed with a Mopar. I think we can go faster than the speeds hinted at in here without resorting to those hideous body mods that make a cool looking classic Mopar look like some 16 year old sideways hat kid started modding it from an import mag. It will take some serious detail work, serious tuning, an extremely uncompromising attitude, and ov course... a whole lotta money.
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/18/13 01:08 PM
Didn't Peter Klutt build a twin turbo v10 powered Cuda to outrun an Enzo? It had tasteful body mods but failed by a couple mph.
Posted By: PHJ426
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/19/13 12:15 AM
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Didn't Peter Klutt build a twin turbo v10 powered Cuda to outrun an Enzo? It had tasteful body mods but failed by a couple mph.
http://thegarageblog.com/garage/the-super-cuda-tops-200-and-the-enzo-tops-it/
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/20/13 12:57 AM
Well I called and switched to a power rack today. I may need to find the worlds tiniest power steering pump
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/20/13 02:12 AM
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/20/13 05:42 AM
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I plan to use one of these little sweethearts...... http://i.ebayimg.com/t/New-Racing-Power-...m!Pw~~60_12.JPG
You can get them from the circle track supply places with remote reservoirs to get you even more room.
Posted By: 74yellowduster
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/20/13 01:42 PM
for what it's worth, mopars own the records in the nevada open road competition.
http://www.sscc.us/records.aspxthe current record holder, Jim Peruto, averaged 217mph over the length of the course, in an '06 charger. the previous record holder was a chrysler lebaron that averaged 207mph driven by Chuck Schafer & Gary Bockman
Posted By: mopardamo
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/20/13 09:08 PM
True but that charger is a Busch/Nationwide car if I remember correctly. Dedicated race machine.
Damon
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/20/13 11:45 PM
I ordered brakes today
12.9" 6 piston wilwoods for the front
12.9" 4 piston wilwoods for the rear
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/21/13 07:49 PM
Yeeeeesssssssss!!!!!!
Posted By: dangina
Re: Building a curvy car - 03/21/13 08:20 PM
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I've run this thing in the Silver State Classic at over 140 and she gets quite light on the front... This is the beginning of a no-mod-to-the-body add on air dam to scrape some of the air out from under the car.
I love the look! are you gonna add a rear wing for downforce?
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/20/13 04:00 PM
Here are a few update Pictures
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/20/13 04:02 PM
And
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/20/13 04:03 PM
Another
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/20/13 04:04 PM
Special thanks to Jeff Allison Motorsports for making this thing such a sweet ride.
Hope to have it done by summer.
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/20/13 04:05 PM
Heads for the engine
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/20/13 04:07 PM
Seats.
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/20/13 04:15 PM
Tub done
Posted By: EchoSixMike
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/20/13 04:24 PM
How about some under body aero, like with the old Group C/ GTP stuff? At the least a diffuser, combined with a rear wing tuned to provide low vacuum at said diffuser can buy significant DF. Know any SCCA CSR/DSR guys to lay some carbon fiber? S/F....Ken M
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/20/13 04:42 PM
Very cool looking build.
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/20/13 04:50 PM
Looks super!
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/20/13 05:03 PM
Anyone have any pictures of examples?
carbon isnt a problem for Jeff...just need to see one
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/20/13 05:48 PM
What are the plans for fuel cell? Are you you.g to incorporate the factory filler? How much the cell hangs down will dictate the design of a rear diffuser. My tank setup definitely makes putting one on a challenge.
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/20/13 06:14 PM
I bought one from Hot Rod City Garage. It has an Aeromotive Eliminator Pump in the tank set up for 1400hp
Its pretty boxy but mounts flat to the bottom of the floor and hangs 2" lower than a stock tank
Posted By: EchoSixMike
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/21/13 12:18 AM
Just google image "race car diffuser"
Or go to Lemans Corner website and look at all the great old Group C stuff for undercar ground effects. S/F....Ken M
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/21/13 05:47 AM
Mostly because the bottom of that car doesn't really look like the bottom of an old mopar so I thought asking for some pictures would net me one on a old car. But I will go search those keywords.
Posted By: EchoSixMike
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/21/13 05:44 PM
Josh, while not, IMO, bleeding edge technology, this just isn't stuff Joe Average does with an automobile.
IOW, you're on your own making it work, since I'm assuming you don't have access to a wind tunnel.
Conceptually, what you're doing is speeding up, and hence lowering the pressure of, air travelling under the car. This creates downforce. You can get multiple tons of DF this way. The GTP/Group C cars were blowing up tires and destroying suspension components from the loads they were putting on them. Upwards of 6000lbs of DF, plus car weight at 180mph.
You not going to be able to get that. But what you should be able to get, combined with air control at the front of the car, is enough to maintain traction instead of turning the car into an aeroplane. S/F....Ken M
Posted By: AlexP
Re: Building a curvy car - 11/21/13 07:00 PM
Whats the hemi build going to be like?
800 hp with FI on that motor will be a breeze!
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Building a curvy car - 12/05/13 07:47 PM
Its going to be an all aluminum Thitek Headed twin turbo with a Rossler 4L80e Automatic behind it.
