Moparts

Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 10/20/12 06:17 PM

I am looking for the best bolt in suspension upgrades for my 71 Duster and so far I really like what I see in the Hotchkis product line. That said I'm a newbie when it comes to the latest greatest Mopar suspension upgrades, most of my experience has been with combining and modifying original factory parts (which are no slouch!) but realize that there have been some advancements in improved geometry and weight reduction that lead me to look to the aftermarket.

My biggest concern is choosing the right torsion bars, swaybars, and shocks. I've noticed that Hotchkis does not sell torsion bars, how can they call it a "Total Vehicle Suspension System" without including torsion bars? If they don't sell them, maybe they could at least reccomend the right diameter bars to use in combination with what they do sell? Maybe someone at Hotchkis can reply and explain this? I called thier tech person and quite frankly he wasn't much help.

Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 10/20/12 07:06 PM

Our kit is very well developed, but unfortunately the A-Body market hasn't come along as well as we had hoped, and have not seen enough demand to justify another supplier of torsion bars for the A-Bodies. That said, Firm Feel makes an outstanding product and we recommend anything between a 1" bar to a 1.18 bar, depending on application. Sorry to hear about your experience, but there are only a few "tech" guys at Hotchkis, but most of our sales staff really know what they are talking about and generally only have to turn to us for the REALLY tough stuff. That paired with SEMA just around the corner and the best people are SWAMPED. Not making excuses, just stating the facts. If you have any questions feel free to PM me and we can talk via e-mail or I can call you personally.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 10/20/12 07:26 PM

Sounds good Dan, thank you!
Posted By: dart4forte

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 10/25/12 05:54 AM

I'm running complete Firm Feel system in the Road Runner. I'm planning on stepping up to a larger sway bar install this winter. The only thing I didn't do was I chose not to box the lower control arm. I wanted to go with Hotchkis but at SEMA several years ago I stopped by their booth and they wouldn't give me the time of day and they didn't sell a total system for my 71. If Hotchkis sells the A body parts as a total system it's well worth the price. I went with Firm Feel because Hotchkis didn't have a total system for the 3rd gen B Body, I didn't care for their customer service and I decidee to buy from a NW dealer who I've had some history with. Dick did cut me a smokin deal on the shipping.
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 10/25/12 02:16 PM

For whaat it's worth, I'll be starting R&D on a 71 Charger after SEMA this year.
Posted By: dart4forte

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 10/25/12 06:24 PM

Quote:

For whaat it's worth, I'll be starting R&D on a 71 Charger after SEMA this year.




That would be great for us 3rd Gen B body owners.
Posted By: dart4forte

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 10/25/12 06:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

For whaat it's worth, I'll be starting R&D on a 71 Charger after SEMA this year.




That would be great for us 3rd Gen B body owners.



Would that R&D include the 73-74 with the isolated suspensions?
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 10/25/12 08:47 PM

I would assume that if you switched out the plate for non-isolated units, it would work, but don't hold me to that, I don't know any of the other dimensions.
Posted By: dart4forte

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 10/25/12 09:01 PM

Ok, just asking. I'll assume the R&D is going to focus on the 71-72 B. look forward to seeing your results.
Posted By: dart1962_440

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 10/25/12 09:58 PM

So it sounds like the 62-65 B-Body stuff is ready to go??
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 10/26/12 04:12 AM

Just about. Waiting on some prototype pieces back from engineering that I sent them. With the SEMA crunch, everything that isn't going to SEMA is on the back-burner. New Years for sure, I've got to update the database to give to the sales guys and we are a go.
Posted By: Darius

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 10/28/12 02:43 PM

About two years back I bought the TVS for my 69 Dart and it came with front and rear sway bars.....
How do you explain that Dan?????
By the way, I absolutely LOVE what that did for my Dart. The thing drives like a go-cart now. I will say this is NOT simply a "bolt on" upgrade. There was some welding involved for mount points and such, not a lot, but none the less it was required.
Here is the only pic I have at the moment but you can see the "massive" sway bar and that came with the kit I bought. It even has a "Hotchkis" sticker on it!

Sorry, I was obviously thinking "sway" bar and not "Torsion bar". Having said that, I DID get torsion bars with the TVS kit I bought!

Attached picture 7438294-IMG_1058(Small).jpg
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 10/28/12 03:11 PM

Quote:

About two years back I bought the TVS for my 69 Dart and it came with front and rear sway bars.....
How do you explain that Dan?????
By the way, I absolutely LOVE what that did for my Dart. The thing drives like a go-cart now. I will say this is NOT simply a "bolt on" upgrade. There was some welding involved for mount points and such, not a lot, but none the less it was required.
Here is the only pic I have at the moment but you can see the "massive" sway bar and that came with the kit I bought. It even has a "Hotchkis" sticker on it!



Glad you like it! Now get some sticky tires and it'll REALLY come alive!
Posted By: 340duster340

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 10/29/12 02:22 AM

Quote:

I am looking for the best bolt in suspension upgrades for my 71 Duster and so far I really like what I see in the Hotchkis product line. That said I'm a newbie when it comes to the latest greatest Mopar suspension upgrades, most of my experience has been with combining and modifying original factory parts (which are no slouch!) but realize that there have been some advancements in improved geometry and weight reduction that lead me to look to the aftermarket.

My biggest concern is choosing the right torsion bars, swaybars, and shocks. I've noticed that Hotchkis does not sell torsion bars, how can they call it a "Total Vehicle Suspension System" without including torsion bars? If they don't sell them, maybe they could at least reccomend the right diameter bars to use in combination with what they do sell? Maybe someone at Hotchkis can reply and explain this? I called thier tech person and quite frankly he wasn't much help.





i am surprised no body asked, what will you be using the car for? auto cross?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 10/29/12 04:22 AM

I'll be using it for a mix of things from drag racing, autocrossing, to road trips like the Hot Rod Power Tour. I also understand that there will be compromises when targeting a general use type vehicle build. I plan to have multiple setups for the various uses which will primarily involve tire & wheel combos and basic suspension adjustments. I am used to driving pretty hardcore vehicles so I'm not a wuss when it comes to creature comforts or ride quality, niether matter much to me, performance is king.
Posted By: cudaboy340

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 11/07/12 07:22 PM

I have the TVS kit on my '67 Belvedere. I ordered mine directly from Hotchkis and it DID come with T-Bars. Not sure if they are Hotchkis bars or if they sourced them from another supplier. This is a work in progress meaning I'm doing what I can when I have time and money BUT the car can't be taken off the road for too long or it will turn into a full-blown rebuild.

So far I've installed the entire TVS kit with Bilstein shocks but I have NOT installed the rear bar and the frame connectors aren't welded in yet (the holes in the frame connectors don't line up perfectly with the seat bolts and I want to address that before I weld anything). I'm also running 15" Torque Thusts with BFG Radial T/As - as Dan mentioned above, I need some sticky tires.

That being said, I love the way the car handles!!! It is a bit harsh on rough roads but it doesn't bother me since I still have the factory bench seat which provides about 4-6" of travel

We all know the '66-'67 B-Bodies have really low rear wheel wells and my car now sits so low that the wheel well actually covers part of the rim. My car looks a little "confused" right now. It mostly looks like an old hot rod as it wears most of its original paint (with lots of patina) and hot rod style wheels and tires. Then it has that super low stance...plus it's a '67 B-Body which isn't exactly swoopy.

The Hotchkis TVS kit was very complete and easy to install. I had to weld sway bar brackets on since my car didn't have a bar originally. I'm not sure if the Hotchkis bar bolts to the stock mounts if you have them.

I can't wait to get everything installed and get some REAL tires. Even with the BFGs I've been able to blow off a couple of modern cars when they try to follow me on the twisty mountain road that I live on

Ed
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 11/07/12 08:59 PM

Quote:

I have the TVS kit on my '67 Belvedere. I ordered mine directly from Hotchkis and it DID come with T-Bars. Not sure if they are Hotchkis bars or if they sourced them from another supplier. This is a work in progress meaning I'm doing what I can when I have time and money BUT the car can't be taken off the road for too long or it will turn into a full-blown rebuild.

So far I've installed the entire TVS kit with Bilstein shocks but I have NOT installed the rear bar and the frame connectors aren't welded in yet (the holes in the frame connectors don't line up perfectly with the seat bolts and I want to address that before I weld anything). I'm also running 15" Torque Thusts with BFG Radial T/As - as Dan mentioned above, I need some sticky tires.

That being said, I love the way the car handles!!! It is a bit harsh on rough roads but it doesn't bother me since I still have the factory bench seat which provides about 4-6" of travel

We all know the '66-'67 B-Bodies have really low rear wheel wells and my car now sits so low that the wheel well actually covers part of the rim. My car looks a little "confused" right now. It mostly looks like an old hot rod as it wears most of its original paint (with lots of patina) and hot rod style wheels and tires. Then it has that super low stance...plus it's a '67 B-Body which isn't exactly swoopy.

The Hotchkis TVS kit was very complete and easy to install. I had to weld sway bar brackets on since my car didn't have a bar originally. I'm not sure if the Hotchkis bar bolts to the stock mounts if you have them.

I can't wait to get everything installed and get some REAL tires. Even with the BFGs I've been able to blow off a couple of modern cars when they try to follow me on the twisty mountain road that I live on

Ed



Pictures or it didn't happen.
Posted By: 1964superstock

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 07/31/15 04:35 AM

Originally Posted By dart1962_440
So it sounds like the 62-65 B-Body stuff is ready to go??


Dan, what is the status of the Hotchkis 1962-1965 B-Body TVS kits? I have not heard much for a long time. Cool cars that could use some unique parts, especially frame connectors and leaf springs. Thanks.
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 07/31/15 06:02 PM

Tell me about it smile
I've done all my end from prototype R&D, it comes down to fitment checks. We need those makes and models at the shop for test fitting and verification. The basics all bolt up for the fronts, its spring rates/vehicle weights and Subframe connector fitment we need to the most. If you guys find cars willing to play, send them our way. If it is a Prototype or fitment, parts/install is cheap or free.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 07/31/15 11:02 PM

Do 62-65 B's take two unique spring front and rear segment lenght combinations?
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 08/01/15 07:10 PM

On the test fitments I've done, they share the same segment lengths as an A body.
Posted By: dart4forte

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 08/02/15 04:25 AM

Originally Posted By ScottSmith_Harms
I'll be using it for a mix of things from drag racing, autocrossing, to road trips like the Hot Rod Power Tour. I also understand that there will be compromises when targeting a general use type vehicle build. I plan to have multiple setups for the various uses which will primarily involve tire & wheel combos and basic suspension adjustments. I am used to driving pretty hardcore vehicles so I'm not a wuss when it comes to creature comforts or ride quality, niether matter much to me, performance is king.



Is this for the yellow Duster?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 08/02/15 03:36 PM

Quote:
Is this for the yellow Duster?


That was the initial idea, but no, not anymore. The yellow car staying all original. I do have another 71 I'm doing, it's going to be the guinea pig. I started this post quite a while back, I still haven't seen any torsion bars offered to make this "Total" vehicle system offering complete? Any updates?
Posted By: dart4forte

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 08/02/15 03:57 PM

Originally Posted By ScottSmith_Harms
Quote:
Is this for the yellow Duster?


That was the initial idea, but no, not anymore. The yellow car staying all original. I do have another 71 I'm doing, it's going to be the guinea pig. I started this post quite a while back, I still haven't seen any torsion bars offered to make this "Total" vehicle system offering complete? Any updates?


No real updates. The 68 is about 90% complete. It's been too hot to work on it so it's a little at a time. My last day at work was this past Friday so I'm officially retired. Now it's packing boxes for the move to Mesa.
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 08/02/15 06:57 PM

I have some of the parts of the TVS on my car and I live in Metro Detroit where there probably are the worst roads in the entire nation.

I have:
-Hotchkis UCAs
-Hotchkis F&R sway bars
-Poly LCA Bushings
-RMS Strut Rods (Hotchkis ones are close enough so I doubt it makes a difference for handling)
-Hotchkis Subframe connectors
-Hotchkis/Fox Racing Non-Adjustable Shocks
-Firm Feel 1.06 Torsion bars
-ESPO 6 leaf "340" Springs at stock ride height, offset shackles
-Borgenson "first design" steering box
-Currently 225-60-15 BFG G-Force Sports
-1.5 deg camber/ 3 deg caster (will add more caster in the future)

I have to say that unless you're on a really, really rough road it rides better with this setup than the more OE stuff I had before. It corners extremely flat, and feels very balanced, like a totally different car. I'm not sure I'd go over the 1.06 torsion bars unless you're only autocrossing or road racing. I keep my rear bar in the middle setting for now, probably the most neutral for the street.

I do not have the rod end steering links or the rear springs so I can't comment on those. I do experience some minor bump-steer, but not terrible, and I haven't had any decel wheelhop or anything with the rear springs (poly bushings), so I'm quite unsure how much performance would be gained there.

I have a set of 275-35-18 tires for it but just need to get the wheels modified and I'll be set to go there.
Posted By: 1964superstock

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 08/14/15 01:54 AM

Originally Posted By autoxcuda
Do 62-65 B's take two unique spring front and rear segment lenght combinations?


Here is a handy little chart from Mancini Racing with all the leaf spring dimensions. also a link for AR Engineering is attached for all new front hangers available. The leaf spring front section dimensions are shown for each style front hanger.

http://arengineering.com/home-page/spring-hangers/

Other differences for the frame connectors are the wheelbase changes in Dodges 116" for 1962, 119" for '63-'64, and 117" for '65. Plymouth stayed at 116 inches '62-'65.






Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis Total Vehicle System Questions - 08/14/15 03:55 AM

Very cool info! I'll have to make a copy of that for future R&D.
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