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Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS

Posted By: Diplomatt

Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/28/12 04:23 AM

My Dad and I are in the middle of installing the Hotchkis TVS kit on his 70 Barracuda. It currently has 4 wheel drums on it though... We're looking to do a disc brake conversion kit on it with at least 11.25" brakes up front, and I was just wondering what everyone else here is running, and what works/doesn't work? Thanks for the help, and a big thanks to Hotchkis for their awesome service at Carlisle in July.
Posted By: Burkenator

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/28/12 12:28 PM

I am doing the same thing with my 70 Challenger. I went with Dr. Diff's 13" Cobra setup on the front. It is only partially installed so I cannot comment on how it drives/stops; but the kit is complete and looks well made/designed.
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/28/12 02:50 PM

Quote:

My Dad and I are in the middle of installing the Hotchkis TVS kit on his 70 Barracuda. It currently has 4 wheel drums on it though... We're looking to do a disc brake conversion kit on it with at least 11.25" brakes up front, and I was just wondering what everyone else here is running, and what works/doesn't work? Thanks for the help, and a big thanks to Hotchkis for their awesome service at Carlisle in July.




We are big fans of both the Wilwood and Baer set-ups for these cars.
Posted By: dickdale

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/28/12 03:49 PM

what your budget?
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/28/12 04:02 PM

Depends on your budget, how fast the car is going to be, and what size wheel you're willing to run.

I covered all of the available options in my B-body book. I'd suggest starting there since that is the latest information available.
Posted By: Diplomatt

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/28/12 08:37 PM

It's going to be running 18 inch wheels, with a 383, and we're not looking to go crazy with 6 piston calipers, since it's not going to be a full-on race car. We've been looking at Wilwood kits, we'll have to check out the others too.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/28/12 10:28 PM

The DoctorDiff SRT kit would be a good fit with 18 inch wheels. It is a better value than any of the Wilwood kits. The Baer T4 kit might also be a good fit for you. I covered all of those in the book so that is the easiest way to see all the kits side by side.
Posted By: dangina

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/28/12 11:57 PM

I'm running andyf's 13" viper kit is a decent price (although you source the calipers yourself) the wilwood from what I've read are not worth it unless you get the 13" disk 6 piston caliper setup, at least for the fronts...doctor diff also carries andy's kits i believe...
Posted By: fbernard

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/30/12 09:49 AM

I have 2 cars with Wilwood kits front and rear, so here are my thoughts on the subject.

I wanted to have matching front and rear calipers for aesthetic reasons, si I took a Wilwood rear kit to match the front. So did a friend of mine, and I ended up buying his car (no, I didn't do the same mistake twice )

If you want to convert the rear brakes, look into this first, and read around to find out if you want to retain the OEM tapered bearings or switch to Green Bearings... This has been covered on Moparts before.
In my experience, green bearings and road-racing don't mix. That rules out some of the kits on the market. Some people here might say the Green bearings are OK, but in the "Corners are best" section, I dare say they're not...

Depending on the diff you have, you may be able to fab a spacer to install between the axles, or you may not (with a Truetrac, you can).
Remove the center section and measure between the two axles for the spacer length.
Some diffs are not see-through, and you can't do this (or fab 2 spacers?)

You can also switch to longer axles .

It's much simpler to start by chosing a kit which works with tapered bearings. DrDiff has some (Cobra calipers with cable-operated E-brakes, I think)

If you install green bearings and take your car to a racetrack, the life expectancy of the bearings drops to around 20 minutes.
If you remove the inner seal from the green bearings, and don't drive too hard into corners, they'll live.

Oh, and the aluminum flanges on the Wilwood rear kit (which hold the inner drum parking brake) can bend. The parking brake is so weak it's barely noticeable.

If I had known all this before switching to discs, I would never have used a Wilwood setup on the rear.

For the front brakes, all I can say is that a 13" rotor, 6-piston caliper setup with 1.25" MC and hydroboost assist is great for both track and road use...
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/30/12 01:01 PM

Did the Wilwood aluminum backing plate bend in the center by the bearing, or out by the caliper?
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/30/12 03:12 PM

I usually suggest to retain stock 11x3 drums and tapered bearings for any car that is going to see more street than track miles. On our cars we replace the green bearings every 3-4 events due to excessive bearing wear and subsequent pad knock-back. there are a lot of band-aids to this system, but if you are going to reliably track and auto-cross a Mopar, look into a full floater!
Posted By: fbernard

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/30/12 05:45 PM

Quote:

Did the Wilwood aluminum backing plate bend in the center by the bearing, or out by the caliper?





The kit I have is the 7144, the bent part is the right flange (part 249-7117). If I remember correctly, it's bent in the middle, at the top, between the brake linings, right next to the e-cable hook. See attached pic

I suspect the cable might have done this if it was tightened too much. But that's only on one side.

Attached picture 7357298-bent_flange.jpg
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/30/12 09:17 PM

Too late for you, but the DoctorDiff rear disc kit is the way to go on a Mopar. It keeps the tapered axle bearing and it actually fits and works right out of the box. Some of the "big name" kits that I've worked with don't actually fit. And then the customer service is lousy to boot. Not much more than "you bought so you figure out how to make it fit".

Attached picture 7357554-cass.jpg
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/30/12 09:29 PM

Quote:

Too late for you, but the DoctorDiff rear disc kit is the way to go on a Mopar. It keeps the tapered axle bearing and it actually fits and works right out of the box. Some of the "big name" kits that I've worked with don't actually fit. And then the customer service is lousy to boot. Not much more than "you bought so you figure out how to make it fit".




That is an interesting adjustable sway bar there! Just out of curiosity, what happens to the tapered bearing when the inner wheel loads "pull" the tire away from the car in a turn? And how does that kit stop rotor movement and axle end play?
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/30/12 10:18 PM

Just set the end play up on the tight side of the factory specs and go have fun. It is as good as it gets without spending a ton of money.

Attached picture 7357645-DSC_4845(Large).JPG
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/30/12 11:39 PM

Quote:

Just set the end play up on the tight side of the factory specs and go have fun. It is as good as it gets without spending a ton of money.



I'll have to give it a shot on the new race car.
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/31/12 03:06 AM

I thought a slider caliper was the ticket with rear discs and adjustables? Fixed would definitely cause problems.
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/31/12 03:10 AM

Here is my Dr.Diff 14" setup. Very nice and the rotors are total overkill on a 3200lb. A body which is exactly what I want.

Attached picture 7357969-004.JPG
Posted By: Mopar Mitch

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/31/12 04:33 AM

With the DrDiff rear disc (smaller ones of ~10.5"?.. fitting 15" rims)... does the track width change at all from factory width? My concern is pushing the wheels out further towards the fenders as I've already nicely flushed the lips. Tapered bearings are the only way to go for cornering life expectancy.

Attached picture 7358098-Mitch'sChallenger-12.jpg
Posted By: pro451bee

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/31/12 05:07 AM

I used the Baer Iron Sport on my B Body,it appears identical to the Dr's kit , and the rotor hat is approximately the same thickness as the drum.Also the disk kit is way lighter too.

Attached picture 7358144-S6300682#2.JPG
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/31/12 05:08 AM

Track width is changed a small amount. The disc center is slightly thicker than the drum center. Maybe 0.100 inch per side?
Posted By: pro451bee

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/31/12 05:14 AM

Also,the factory tapered axle bearings worked perfectly with the Baer set up,neither can I detect any pad kick back on my B body.

Attached picture 7358162-S6300666#2.JPG
Posted By: fbernard

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/31/12 02:09 PM

Quote:

Too late for you




Considering I have a car with absolutely no E-brake or parking brake (could be worse, it's a stick car, I always park in gear), it may not be too late, I'll have to address this problem eventually. I've toyed with other ideas (retaining the Wilwood calipers, fabbing up brackets, getting rid of all the aluminum bracket/backing-plate/drum brake arrangement, and finding another parking brake solution (little mechanical calipers with small puck-like pads).
I have a feeling starting from scratch might be easier.

By the way, does anyone make a sort of spanner wrench for the bearing adjustment?
Posted By: Mopar Mitch

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/31/12 03:46 PM

Thanks Andy... every fraction of an inch matters for my setup.
Posted By: Mopar Mitch

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/31/12 03:59 PM

Thanks pro451 for the info on the Baer Iron Sport setup.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/31/12 04:34 PM

Ask DoctorDiff for an exact measurement on track width change. It isn't much but I'm pretty sure that the rotor center is slightly thicker than the drum center. If I had both parts laying here I could measure it for you but I don't have the parts on hand at the moment.
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 08/31/12 04:57 PM

Quote:

Thanks Andy... every fraction of an inch matters for my setup.




If it is that small amount (and going to make a difference), you could always have the mounting pads of the wheels cut that much to even things back up.

Usually enough meat on them to skim some off if needed.
Posted By: ahy

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 09/01/12 05:30 PM

I've got the Bear 13" "track" setup on the front and stock big drums on the rear. It stops very well. The front requires the later A/E body spindles. The Bear calipers have a smaller piston area than OE MOPAR so you need plenty of brake pressure. If using PB the 9" booster is marginal. A twin 8" or hydroboost is better. Getting front rear bias dialed in requires a prop valve and even better, smaller wheel cyinders on the rear + prop valve.
Posted By: pro451bee

Re: Drum to disc conversion on 70 E-Body with Hotchkis TVS - 09/01/12 07:15 PM

I also have the Baer Track on front and coupled with the 11.7 Iron Sport on the rear,my front and rear balance is dead nuts for this 3500 pound B body.I also am using a 1.03 alloy manual master set up and only a drum distribution block .

Attached picture 7360322-S6300681#2.JPG
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