Moparts
FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience .
Posted By: cjs69mope
FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 07/12/12 04:23 AM
I am just putting this info out there to find out if other people have had the same results as i have with two different styles of shocks that are popular and find there way on many of our mopars .
This is how this started I built a 69 Charger with a approx 600 hp stroker motor and wanted to make it as a more modern type G handling machine.
So i installed firm feel two steering box , firm feel tubular upper a arms , firm feel 1" sway bar kit , low profile 60 series tires on 17 " rims with KYB shocks . .94 torsion bars and xhd rear springs.
The car was never driven before this build so i had nothing to compare the ride and handling to.
I thought that the car handled great took high speed corners fairly well and felt very sure footed .
After reading about other people bad mouthing the Kyb's i switched to The Monroe gas matics. This is where i made a big mistake my car now handles like a old mush grandpa car and lost traction too on the launch.
FYI for all the bad mouthing out there about KYB's thay work on my car better than the Monroe's I will be switching them back this weekend !
I thought the Monroe's would have been better for traction but surprisingly not .
Hope this helps some one else save some time.
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 07/12/12 04:28 AM
I dont think anyone said KYBs didnt handle ok just ride like a creeper. I went from Monroes to Bilsteins and the ride is as good but the car is under control and predictable. I also went from .890 bars to 1.06 bars and from Oval track springs to Hotchkis at the same time and I was super suprised at no compromise is the ride whatsoever. My mother in law said my car was smoother than her older Lexus at 90mph on the interstate!
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 07/12/12 05:14 AM
The stiff gas action of the KYB shocks is making up for the stockish sized .94 T-bars (Hemi/440 is .92). Those shocks are basically air springs.
It sounds you prefer a stiffer suspension and I think you'd like bigger 1.00" torsion bars. Bilstein should still be an upgrade.
There is a bunch of personal preference going on here. I know of an A-body guy that put on very low profile tires (IIRC 225/40/17) with KYB's and didn't like the ride. So he put on Monroes and he liked it much better.
Posted By: Montclaire
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 07/12/12 03:08 PM
I hated KYBs and loved the Monroes. I felt the KYBs really limited my suspension travel and made the car feel numb, and it rode like a haycart. The Monroes, when combined with proper suspension, will give a nice ride and still be reponsive.
Posted By: jcc
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 07/12/12 03:54 PM
Quote:
The stiff gas action of the KYB shocks is making up for the stockish sized .94 T-bars (Hemi/440 is .92). Those shocks are basically air springs.
It sounds you prefer a stiffer suspension and I think you'd like bigger 1.00" torsion bars. Bilstein should still be an upgrade.
There is a bunch of personal preference going on here. I know of an A-body guy that put on very low profile tires (IIRC 225/40/17) with KYB's and didn't like the ride. So he put on Monroes and he liked it much better.
Posted By: bordin34
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 07/12/12 04:32 PM
I have KYBs on my 73 Charger with 1.06" tbars and they are pretty bad. They seem like they cant control the spring and ride way too firm. Unfortunately us late 3rd gen guys are stuck with no real front shock choices. I'm hoping to play around with some Konis or Bilsteins to adapt them to fit.
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 07/12/12 07:58 PM
Quote:
After reading about other people bad mouthing the Kyb's i switched to The Monroe gas matics. This is where i made a big mistake my car now handles like a old mush grandpa car and lost traction too on the launch.
FYI for all the bad mouthing out there about KYB's thay work on my car better than the Monroe's I will be switching them back this weekend !
I thought the Monroe's would have been better for traction but surprisingly not .
I'm sorry to hear you went to the expense and trouble of this exercise on hearsay. However, if you read through those threads closely you would have also found the opinions that while not suitable for a wide range of set ups, there are combinations that the KYBs will work okay with. It sounds like your combo was working well and you were happy with the ride provided by the KYBs. Fortunately, Monroes are not a bucket of money to buy, so you aren't out a huge amount. You might be able to swap meet them for $20-30 and recover some cash.
Quote:
Unfortunately us late 3rd gen guys are stuck with no real front shock choices. I'm hoping to play around with some Konis or Bilsteins to adapt them to fit.
Lok at the end of this thread for a suggested remedy to that scenario, if originality is not a big issue for you: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post7278830
Posted By: 5spdcuda
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 07/12/12 09:15 PM
IMO shocks have to be matched to the car. Just because a shock is the right size and has the appropriate mounts dosen't mean it will work well. Most of the common parts store shocks cover several different models and will physically fit. I had a good example of this early on with my'Cuda. I initially put KYB's on the car [ good price ], it was all but undriveable due to a lack of compliance. Best tires in the world won't work if they're off the pavement. I sold the KYB's [ really cheap ] to a friend with a big block '67 Charger. They worked fine for him. My'Cuda weighs in at 3,500 lbs. with a 1/2 tank of gas. His Charger weighs over 4,000 lbs. 'Cuda's also tend to be lighter at the back.
Posted By: jcc
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 07/13/12 09:56 PM
Well even a broken analog clock is at least right twice a day.
Posted By: ahy
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 07/14/12 12:03 AM
I've got the KYB's on an E. BB, 1" T bars, battery in trunk, 175 rear spring rate. Maybe I got lucky on the combo or have a hard rear end but I have to say they do fine. I don't doubt a properly matched set of Bilstiens or Konies would be an improvement but I'm in no hurry.
Posted By: patrick
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 07/16/12 12:50 PM
my experience was on an M body, where until very recently, there were no options for T-bar choices, being a bent bar car (firm feel recently came out with different sized bars, but like all their stuff, they ain't cheap)....I had upgraded to poly bushings in the front, and police spec rear springs, as well as a 1.125" front and 1" rear sway bars. the KYB's handled very good with my 255/50R17 tires, but it did ride like an oxcart, any small to moderate bump was harsh, nearly tooth-filling loosening harsh. I replaced with Monroe Sensa-tracs, not the cheap monroes, and the ride was MUCH more comfortable, with no loss in handling prowess...
Posted By: Rick_Ehrenberg
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 07/21/12 01:36 PM
Quote:
I have KYBs on my 73 Charger with 1.06" tbars and they are pretty bad. They seem like they cant control the spring and ride way too firm. Unfortunately us late 3rd gen guys are stuck with no real front shock choices. I'm hoping to play around with some Konis or Bilsteins to adapt them to fit.
Koni used to make shocks for that app. I had 'em, there was basically nothing else that even came CLOSE to working. Had to set 'em on 75% firm minimum to control the "heaving".
Rick
Posted By: Mopar Mitch
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/02/12 04:22 PM
I have the Koni RED adjustable shocks on my Challenger... set full-stiff front and have varied the adjustments at rear... full stiff is too much (lifts the inside rear tire)... 1/2 to 3/4 is better. I'm considering to eventually get the double-adjustables from QA1, maybe Strange, etc., and have them pressure set for my suspension.
Posted By: roadrunninMark
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/10/12 01:37 PM
Anyone try a sit of Gabriel Gaurdians? I need a new front pair of shocks and they seem to have better info then the Monroes. Plus I wouldn't have to paint them.
Posted By: jcc
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/10/12 03:35 PM
Quote:
, and have them pressure set for my suspension.
I have never heard
that before, care to explain?
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/10/12 04:01 PM
This is one worth watching on the relevance of shocks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD2Ah68xG9M
Posted By: 340duster340
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/11/12 02:09 PM
Quote:
Anyone try a sit of Gabriel Gaurdians? I need a new front pair of shocks and they seem to have better info then the Monroes. Plus I wouldn't have to paint them.
i have gabriels in my jeep. nice improvement over the worn out stock stuff. honestly their prices are great for a commuter car but havent tried them yet on a car that can actually handle.
Posted By: Mopar Mitch
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/11/12 06:51 PM
To have the schocks best matched for any car having a modified suspension (such as extremely stiff suspension), its best to request the shock manufacturer to re-valv the internal presures so to match the stiffness of the springs. Typically, the shocks are made to a predetermined internal pressure that would be acceptable to most average car's suspension stiffness. I've talked with different shock tech reps and they've all suggested that to best fit my suspension setup (very stiff) to have the internal pressure changed by the company. In other words, I wouldn't take an "off the shelf" shock if I wanted best results.
Posted By: jcc
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/11/12 07:01 PM
So IYO is that "pressure matching" within the scope of the members here on corners, or strictly a race type proposition, and this is the first time over the years I have seen it mentioned here. And this is a better solution then say off the shelf 2 way adjustable shocks? And the upcharge on a custom valved turned shock increases shock cost approx %??. It makes sense, but....
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/12/12 12:53 AM
I've not heard it called pressure matching before, but I believe most places refer to it as custom valving, and yes you can get it done fairly easy by most performance shock manufacturers. Call them up, talk to the tech guys about weights, rates, usage, and they can dial in what you want in any shock that is not bargain basement in price. In higher end shocks it is almost a necessity. Yes, it will cost a bit more, but how much more depends on the company and the shock package.
Is it better, it depends. It certainly means you don't need to dink around with adjustments. This can be good or bad depending on application and end user's technical exertise.
Posted By: Mopar Mitch
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/12/12 06:04 AM
As TC has just indicated, "custom valving" is the more correct term. Regardless if the shock is non-adjustable, or single or double adjustable, for the most serious effort in racing/competition, having them matched to your suspension and car is another advantage to add to your vehicle. So, when you're racing in the .001 of a second, on an autocross or road course competative event, everything matters. If your competitor who just beat you had his shocks re-valved to better suite his car, and you did not, you might consider doing so.
Posted By: astjp2
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/12/12 10:00 AM
Wouldn't double adjustable shocks negate the need for custom valved shocke? I am thinking of something like the QA1 TD901's and 501's...Tim
Posted By: brads70
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/12/12 01:58 PM
In circle track racing shock are dynoed when replacing, due to a crash etc... Off the shelf shocks are just not consistent enough to replace what you had. You often have to dyno several shocks to find one "close". ( rules dictate no take apart-rebuildable shocks)
What I find difficult to wade through is all the "marketing" hype, and glitz when looking for a shock manufacturer. They all are "the best shock"
Not any time soon but in the future I will be replacing the Bilstein RCD shocks I have now. So far with the reaserch I've been able to do these are getting my attention?
http://www.bilsteinus.com/products/circle-track-road-race/snsns-46mm-rebuildable-steel.html
Posted By: astjp2
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/12/12 09:30 PM
Who will you have dyno them? Is that Extra? The price looks good if they come dyno'd if not then they are getting expensive. Tim
Quote:
In circle track racing shock are dynoed when replacing, due to a crash etc... Off the shelf shocks are just not consistent enough to replace what you had. You often have to dyno several shocks to find one "close". ( rules dictate no take apart-rebuildable shocks)
What I find difficult to wade through is all the "marketing" hype, and glitz when looking for a shock manufacturer. They all are "the best shock"
Not any time soon but in the future I will be replacing the Bilstein RCD shocks I have now. So far with the reaserch I've been able to do these are getting my attention?
http://www.bilsteinus.com/products/circle-track-road-race/snsns-46mm-rebuildable-steel.html
Posted By: Mopar Mitch
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/13/12 04:32 AM
I know that QA1, as well as Strange, and also certain Koni specialist shops (as found in the SCCA Sports Car mgzn and related others)... will all revalve/rebuild the shocks... either new or old.. to better match your car and suspension setups. I'm cerain that Bilstein distributors can also have them done.
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/13/12 02:55 PM
Quote:
Wouldn't double adjustable shocks negate the need for custom valved shocke? I am thinking of something like the QA1 TD901's and 501's...Tim
Yes, but....
If you are actually racing, there are classes the expressly prohibit externally adjustable units. This means you need to be more particular about shock choices up front. In some instances, companies may offer the identical shock in 5 or 6 different valving combinations in a budget range shock to allow a wider selection. In higher end shocks, you may get a one time custom valving set up as part of the purchase price. These higher end shocks also tend to be rebuildable so it is entirely possible that while the entry price is very high, youmay never need to ever buy shcoks again for that vehicle.
Another potential drawback of double adjustables is that you need to keep meticulous notes of the set up, track conditions, and the shock settings to get them dialed in to such a degree to perform as well as a custom valved unit will right out of the box. This adjustability is great if you race in a variety of venues and conditions where you may need that little extra edge to find that additional .001 of a second to win.
If you are using double adjustables on a street cruiser with a set it and forget it approach, you are bringing a bazooka to a knife fight.
Posted By: jcc
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/13/12 05:51 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Wouldn't double adjustable shocks negate the need for custom valved shocke? I am thinking of something like the QA1 TD901's and 501's...Tim
Yes, but....
If you are using double adjustables on a street cruiser with a set it and forget it approach, you are bringing a bazooka to a knife fight.
1. I like those kinda odds
2. It really doesn't seem to me this is a heavily oriented race forum to begin with. A lot of helpful nformatin comes from racers, but i see little info here that would help serious racers. I am not trying to be negative in anyway, just sharing my
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/13/12 06:30 PM
True.
We all have to define our own level of "need" in what we buy.
Posted By: Rick_Ehrenberg
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/18/12 06:40 PM
Quote:
I have KYBs on my 73 Charger with 1.06" tbars and they are pretty bad. They seem like they cant control the spring and ride way too firm. Unfortunately us late 3rd gen guys are stuck with no real front shock choices. I'm hoping to play around with some Konis or Bilsteins to adapt them to fit.
Koni used to make these, in my experience, there's NOTHING else that will fit in the confines of a '73-79 B-body (front) and control the mush.
Incidentally, here's my shock "greatest hits" list, from best to worst:
Koni (NOT drag version)
Armstrong (NS1 as far as I know)
Bilstein
Gabriel 1-3/8" piston (NS1)
KYB
Monroe Gas-matic
Konis need to be set to at least 50% stiff to do the job. On the late B-bodies, make that 90% (front).
There's lots of new hi-tech shocks out there, some may be excellent. Most are too pricey for me, however.
Also, if you don't have the aluminum K-member "isolators" on your '73-up B, you are really missing out. he change is very dramatic -- becomes a "big Duster".
Rick
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 08/18/12 06:49 PM
Quote:
Koni used to make these, in my experience, there's NOTHING else that will fit in the confines of a '73-79 B-body (front) and control the mush.
Not in its stock form. However, if you make some slight mods to the lower control arm, you can fit a 1st gen camaro shock in there quite nicely.
Application of the appraoch in a mopar F body. Notice the bottom of the shock mounting strap on the bottom of the lower control arm:
Posted By: mcmopars
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 09/14/12 09:15 PM
i had kyb on the duster,i felt it was harsh riding.went to monroe and the ride was much softer.after a month i put the kyb shocks back on as the monroes felt mushy to me. the kyb are a stiffer shock but they made the car handle better.ill save the monroes for the newport
Posted By: Montclaire
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 09/15/12 12:58 AM
The Monroe's are fine on the street if your suspension is fine - worn out springs and bars are just that, worn out. The kybs do not make your car handle better, they just limit your suspension travel. Buy bars one stage above factory for your motor, and de-arched staggered hd springs and you will have a great street car.
Posted By: mcmopars
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 09/15/12 03:50 AM
Quote:
The Monroe's are fine on the street if your suspension is fine - worn out springs and bars are just that, worn out. The kybs do not make your car handle better, they just limit your suspension travel. Buy bars one stage above factory for your motor, and de-arched staggered hd springs and you will have a great street car.
my suspension is fine.firm feel tubular uca,ss springs,moog parts,96 bars,stage 2 steering box.the monroes in my opinion felt lazy,especially in higher speed corner situations.
Posted By: Montclaire
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 09/15/12 07:54 PM
And where, exactly, are you encountering high speed corner situations? If you are at, say, a sanctioned track, then no, monroes are not for you. But in any stretch of semi-legal operation on public roads, they should be all you need.
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 09/15/12 08:53 PM
I run KYB's on a 70 'Cuda, if I want a softer ride I'll buy a Buick.
Posted By: mcmopars
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 09/15/12 09:39 PM
Quote:
And where, exactly, are you encountering high speed corner situations? If you are at, say, a sanctioned track, then no, monroes are not for you. But in any stretch of semi-legal operation on public roads, they should be all you need.
well thats your opinion,i was not to impressed with the $10 shock.the kyb may be a bit stiff but that is how i set my car up.if you love the monroes well run em.im just saying i like the kyb better.the end.geeez
Posted By: roadrunninMark
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 09/17/12 06:22 PM
Has anyone tried Sachs shocks? I just they have these through Autozone as I ordered a set of Gabriels. For $10 more a shock I wonder if they are a better upgrade.
Posted By: Mopar Mitch
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 09/17/12 08:43 PM
I know a tech engineer working for Sachs... he was originally with Koni and he has spoken highly to me about the quality of Sachs, especially their hi-perf/racing dampers ("dampers" is the more proper word instead of "shocks" or shock absorbers.
Posted By: bordin34
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 09/17/12 09:55 PM
Sachs are great quality and consistent from shock to shock. They have been OEM on Porsche for probably 40 years.
Posted By: patrick
Re: FYI KYB VS Monroe gas shocks Experience . - 09/18/12 06:31 PM
Quote:
Sachs are great quality and consistent from shock to shock. They have been OEM on Porsche for probably 40 years.
OEM on my last bike (Moto Guzzi), and I think they are the OEM manufacturer on my '11 charger