Moparts
Thumbs in or thumbs out?
Posted By: Kern Dog
Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 05/29/12 10:18 AM
I was curious...
Watching some in car stunt footage over the years, I have noticed that some stunt drivers make it a point to drive with their thumbs outside the steering wheel rim alongside their hands, while others wrap their thumbs inside.
Is this covered in stunt school? I try to remember to keep my thumbs in when drifting off road, and when hot-dogging the Charger. I've also seen rally drivers steer hand to hand instead of hand OVER hand. Its as if they "feed" the wheel from one hand to the other. The rally guys only have their hands on the shifter to shift , then it is back to 2 hands on the wheel.
I can see the benefits of keeping the thumbs in: If the wheel jerks, your thumbs are protected. The hand-to-hand steering style makes sense as well.
Any comments? Do you drive this way? Any other tips for us newbies? Surely the experienced autocrossers and road coarse guys can throw a few tips to the masses!
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 05/29/12 11:54 AM
On the street I'll drive both ways. When I was in a stock car, it was always thumbs outside the wheel. With all the contact in short track driving, it was not uncommon to have a circumstance that caused the steering wheel to rapidly rotate faster than you could keep up with or stop. Learned quickly after one instance of incidental contact that bruised my thumb pretty badly. For autcross, it would be less important. Any driving that tends towards minimized contact, wrapping your thumb around the wheel would be okay. But if you have the chance of something forcing the wheels to head in a drection you did not intend, it may be helpful to keep them outside the wheel.
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 05/29/12 01:07 PM
I was trained to keep thumbs "outside the wheel", palms up, hands at the bottom of the wheel, working together as you push and pull the wheel from one hand to the other. when negotiating a turn, your right hand stays between 3 and 6 o'clock, left hand stays between 6 and 9, always moving but alternating which one is gripping the wheel, while both are always right there on the wheel.
Why was I taught this way? because it keeps BOTH hands on the wheel at all times, and if you are involved in a collision, you still have your opposeable thumbs to...do whatever you need to. in the case of my training, it was operate your weapons. (high threat driver training for operating up-armored SUVs outside the wire in Afghanistan) or in a more realistic situation here at home, to render first aid to yourself and others after the crash.
if you wrap your thumbs around the wheel, it can be jerked violently during a crash and dislocate your thumbs, or a violent forward head-on collision could do the same thing as your hands are pushed forward towards the dash.
palms up, thumbs outside the wheel, your hand just pulls away from the wheel.
Posted By: amxautox
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 05/29/12 07:15 PM
thumbs laying alongside the rim of the wheel, not inside, not outside.
Of those 2 selection - outside is preferred so they don't get caught by the spokes and broken.
Posted By: MoparMarq
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 05/29/12 08:51 PM
Not that anybody here might hit a wall of rear end another vehicle, but aircraft accident investigators determine who was flying the plane at the time of the accident by whose thumbs are broken.
Thumbs-in breaks the thumb(s) on the flight control yoke horn at the time of impact.
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 05/29/12 09:13 PM
Every driving school i have been to it has been expressly taught that thumbs go no where near the inside of the wheel, for wxactly the before mentioned examples. Proper driving position should be elbows at 90* or less, hands at 9 and 3. Wheel is passed hand to hand, driving with the hands, not the shoulders.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/03/12 03:37 AM
Quote:
Every driving school i have been to it has been expressly taught that thumbs go no where near the inside of the wheel, for wxactly the before mentioned examples. Proper driving position should be elbows at 90* or less, hands at 9 and 3. Wheel is passed hand to hand, driving with the hands, not the shoulders.
Dan, while I completely agree with you,...I find it "funny" how this driver, driving a 64 Cheetah, known for being a handful of a car, drives the entire course, lap after lap with his thumbs locked around the rim of the wheel.....the driver is Mr Bob Bondurant... 
Posted By: moparpollack
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/03/12 04:23 AM
Yeah but what does he know?
Posted By: DARTH V8Я
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/03/12 04:50 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Every driving school i have been to it has been expressly taught that thumbs go no where near the inside of the wheel, for wxactly the before mentioned examples. Proper driving position should be elbows at 90* or less, hands at 9 and 3. Wheel is passed hand to hand, driving with the hands, not the shoulders.
Dan, while I completely agree with you,...I find it "funny" how this driver, driving a 64 Cheetah, known for being a handful of a car, drives the entire course, lap after lap with his thumbs locked around the rim of the wheel.....the driver is Mr Bob Bondurant...
Yep. Thats how I drive.. More interesting though, is that over the years, my gas peddle has gotten me out of more potential accidents then my brake peddle.. go figure.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/03/12 05:15 AM
Quote:
Yep. Thats how I drive.. More interesting though, is that over the years, my gas peddle has gotten me out of more potential accidents then my brake peddle.. go figure.
It irks me to see people use the brake pedal as their default accident avoidance regimen. Somehow, I instinctively developed a habit of quickly checking my perimeter for other cars, then steering around obstructions. I try to only brake when I am boxed in with no other choice.
Posted By: DARTH V8Я
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/03/12 05:25 AM
Holy wow did I butcher the spelling of the word "Pedal"
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/03/12 05:32 AM
I just noticed today that I am a thumbs out driver, which I guess is correct. But in my defense, my steering wheel is pretty thick and has pockets for my palms to sit in so that sets my fingers in a certain way.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/03/12 05:50 AM
Quote:
Holy wow did I butcher the spelling of the word "Pedal"
SEE how much better I have become? 
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/03/12 12:03 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Every driving school i have been to it has been expressly taught that thumbs go no where near the inside of the wheel, for wxactly the before mentioned examples. Proper driving position should be elbows at 90* or less, hands at 9 and 3. Wheel is passed hand to hand, driving with the hands, not the shoulders.
Dan, while I completely agree with you,...I find it "funny" how this driver, driving a 64 Cheetah, known for being a handful of a car, drives the entire course, lap after lap with his thumbs locked around the rim of the wheel.....the driver is Mr Bob Bondurant...
LOL.
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/03/12 03:02 PM
Quote:
Dan, while I completely agree with you,...I find it "funny" how this driver, driving a 64 Cheetah, known for being a handful of a car, drives the entire course, lap after lap with his thumbs locked around the rim of the wheel.....the driver is Mr Bob Bondurant...
However, if you watched the video, you'll also notice that he is on the track alone so the chance of incidental contact creating a situation that could damage his thumbs is pretty low. As I pointed out in my initial post, the need to drive with thumbs out may be dictated by the situation "at hand" if you will.
This is enough of a cencern that there are spokeless steering wheels out there. Coincidently, these are found primarily at oval track suppliers, not sports car parts houses, drag race supliers, or rood racer purveyers.
![Attached picture 7234012-91032730_T[1].jpg.jpg](https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/7234012-91032730_T[1].jpg.jpg "7234012-91032730_T[1].jpg.jpg")
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/03/12 07:56 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Dan, while I completely agree with you,...I find it "funny" how this driver, driving a 64 Cheetah, known for being a handful of a car, drives the entire course, lap after lap with his thumbs locked around the rim of the wheel.....the driver is Mr Bob Bondurant...
However, if you watched the video, you'll also notice that he is on the track alone so the chance of incidental contact creating a situation that could damage his thumbs is pretty low. As I pointed out in my initial post, the need to drive with thumbs out may be dictated by the situation "at hand" if you will.
This is enough of a cencern that there are spokeless steering wheels out there. Coincidently, these are found primarily at oval track suppliers, not sports car parts houses, drag race supliers, or rood racer purveyers.
Should be second nature to someone like Bondurant, regardless of the track conditions,....it's like someone saying they don't need a helmet to ride their motorcycle down to the corner store on early Sunday morning,...what could happen 
Posted By: jcc
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/03/12 08:39 PM
I run 9/16" TR or RMS cantilevered arms, my thumbs are stronger
Posted By: topside
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/03/12 09:27 PM
If there's an impact to the front end or front wheels, the steering wheel spokes are pretty good at breaking anything you stick in their way. Also, if you're gonna hit hard and there's no saving it, you don't want to brace against the wheel; it's hard on the wrists.
Shuffling the wheel is a preferred method by a lot of racers, others like hand-over-hand; for me, it depends on what I'm doing. On a road course, I tend to be 9:00-10:00/2:00-3:00, and rarely if ever a "death-grip"; I've heard it referred to as "soft hands". Much of the time I let the car straighten itself and let the wheel kind of pass through my hands, unless there's a tight sequence of corners/inputs.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/05/12 08:41 AM
In off-road racing, thumbs outside the steering wheel, because the tire may hit an object and jerk the steering wheel really quick, and you don'y want to break your thumbs. may also be a good idea with air bags.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/08/12 10:32 AM
I havent thrashed around off road in a while, but I'll have to remember to keep my thumbs in. On the street, I dont drive crazy enough to get that serious. I
did drive THIS car around
on the street 14 years ago wearing a helmet!
The looks on peoples faces were priceless!
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/08/12 10:58 AM
Quote:
Every driving school i have been to it has been expressly taught that thumbs go no where near the inside of the wheel, for wxactly the before mentioned examples. Proper driving position should be elbows at 90* or less, hands at 9 and 3. Wheel is passed hand to hand, driving with the hands, not the shoulders.
Yup. Thats exactly how i was taught.
Quote:
Dan, while I completely agree with you,...I find it "funny" how this driver, driving a 64 Cheetah, known for being a handful of a car, drives the entire course, lap after lap with his thumbs locked around the rim of the wheel.....the driver is Mr Bob Bondurant...
And it was by this guy. Haha
As for the thumbs breaking though... I've got the fix if you like to wrap your thumbs around the wheel when you drive/race... Just buy a cheap Grant steering wheel. I honestly think the spokes would snap on a thumbnail in an accident those things are so goddamn fragile...
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/08/12 11:02 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Yep. Thats how I drive.. More interesting though, is that over the years, my gas peddle has gotten me out of more potential accidents then my brake peddle.. go figure.
It irks me to see people use the brake pedal as their default accident avoidance regimen. Somehow, I instinctively developed a habit of quickly checking my perimeter for other cars, then steering around obstructions. I try to only brake when I am boxed in with no other choice.
Its not 'go figure'... its just good driving. Anyone i've ever driven with except my brother always got antsy because ov my reluctance to jam the brakes at any excuse. If i'm in a pinch i'll just go around, or through, and leave the idiots that cause the mess to figure out what just happened. It absolutely staggers my tech friends at how long the brakes last in my cars...
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/08/12 06:13 PM
I've been known to stab the gas and shoot the gap to avoid a crash. It's just a reaction really. I've never been in an accident, but have often thought "I shouldn't have done that, I should have let him hit me, so I can get a new ride on his dime" afterwards
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/08/12 06:17 PM
My wife hates it, and makes her nervous how I drive, but I think of it as "defensive driving rule #1, the best defense is a good offense" Defensive driving does not mean "slam on your brakes all the time and let the other idiots on the road dictate where you go"
Posted By: topside
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/09/12 01:31 AM
Yup, the go pedal is often your friend. One example I can offer is a spinning Mercedes that crossed my path a few lengths in front of me, aimed at the center divider. Before he could bounce back into my lane, I hammered the throttle, went right, and he missed my quarter panel. The cars that didn't get out of the way got collected.
Posted By: hooziewhatsit
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/09/12 04:01 AM
Thumbs out here.
"When in doubt, power out!"
Told to me by my uncle before I rode a dirt bike for the first time, but it works in most other situations as well
Posted By: Twostick
Re: Thumbs in or thumbs out? - 06/19/12 09:55 PM
Quote:
My wife hates it, and makes her nervous how I drive, but I think of it as "defensive driving rule #1, the best defense is a good offense" Defensive driving does not mean "slam on your brakes all the time and let the other idiots on the road dictate where you go"
Or as my dear Dad likes to say "never lift in a bad spot"
Kevin