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paint job on a budget!?

Posted By: Anonymous

paint job on a budget!? - 01/23/06 03:04 PM

Can someone refer me to a shop or individual who would do a decent job(minor body work) and spray my '69 GTX on a 3-$4,000.00 budget that I have to hold to? Am I way out of line to think someone would do it for this amount? I live approx. 1 hr. north of Detroit. If anyone could help me out I'd really appreciate it in a BIG WAY!! Please p.m. me or call 810-392-3781 Sincerely, Randy Borawski
Posted By: moderncylinder

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/23/06 04:31 PM

The guy that painted my camaro was very reasonable in labor price and local.
But to say 3-4000 with minor body work whats minor to you maybe magor more detail a few dents ? patches?? rotted wheel well lips??

And a huge variable what color white thats cheap red expensive metalic big bucks ??

i had close to 2,000 in paint and clear not to mention sealer primer

Bob
Posted By: Dartman928

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/23/06 05:24 PM

The two don't go hand in hand brother. You get what you pay for in that business or you could try to learn how to do it and save some money but be prepared for a big learning curve.

Good Luck
Posted By: BobR

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/23/06 05:25 PM

I was trying to find someone to paint my car for around the amount you are talking. I had no body work-just needed to be primed and blocked out before topcoating. My car is in the paint shop now on a "we'll do it in between collision work" deal. Price? $9,600 for a bright red-no metallic job. Car has vinyl top so no roof paint either and I had it mostly disassembled when I brought it to the guy. VERY HARD to find a deal on paint anymore. -Bob
Posted By: hellrzr

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/23/06 06:51 PM

Maybe you can find a private guy who will let you help. I found a local guy to paint my engine bay. He let me come out to his shop and do all the sanding and prep work. He did a little rust repair and final masking. It was great because I saved some money and I learned some valuable things about body work. Now I can go out and watch/help him work when I want. He charged me $30 per hour which is pretty cheap for a good body guy.
Posted By: hotrodsr1

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/23/06 11:25 PM

I would love to do it i love to do work like that and i would not charge a arm and a leg i would want the advertisement with somthang like that. You can see my work on www.insanemustangs.com I did the work on the blue mustang under darkhorse or millerperforance is the compony that was only 3500.00 that was all the body work and paintThe car was painted blue with white fad and ghost scallops in purple pearl.
Posted By: reflections7

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/24/06 12:17 AM

Go to several of your paint supply dealers in your area. Ask them this same question you posted here. There are many of us that did it on the side and Im sure they could set you up. Usually someone that does it on the side will let you prep the car to save some money. Like removing bumpers,chrome,lights,mirrors ect. You could also ask the painters at some shops if they would reccomend someone. I got a lot of my work from friends that only do collision work.
Posted By: Mustanghater

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/24/06 12:21 AM

what ever happened to rattle can paint jobs? I think it gives cars a " I can take on anything" look.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/25/06 07:34 PM

here's how i painted my car for about $50, it's actually very easy and the results are amazing. First off, get a can of tremclad real orange (or what ever color u want) in the can, not spray, yes tremclad, it is a acrylic/enamel paint which is very durable. next prep your car as if was any other paint job, fix all the rust, ect....no need to prime the car since the tremclad allready contains elements which allow it to be painted over bare metal. next, after prepping the car get a small 4" professional FOAM rollers, it's tiny and has one end rounded off, and the other cut straight, and is a very high density foam. u also need a jug of mineral spirits to thin the paint. The thing i really like about this is that there's no mess, no tapeing the whole car, just key areas, and u can do it in your garage, since your not spraying there is virtually no dust in the air, just clean your garage first, also it does'nt really smell at all, dries overnight and it super tough paint. also it you decide to paint the car professionally later, just prep and paint, there's no need to strip the tremclad. i have done this to a few cars, and i can say it works amazing, u just have to be paitient. next u thin the paint with mineral spirits so it just about as thin as water, a little thicker. get out the roller and paint away, don't get the paint shaked when u buy it, enamel is stirred, otherwise you'll have bubbles in the paint for a week!!! after u do 2 coats, wet sand the whole car, then repeat, 2 coats, wetsand, 2 coats wetsand. i painted the charger using a can since your not spraying the car u use all the paint and not spray 50% in the air, use progressivly finer sand paper each time. it's not really that much work, cause u can stop and start any time, u can do just a door, or the hood, ect. do one panel at a time, and don't stop once you start. once your done the final coat, wetsand with about 1000 grit to a totally smooth finish, and then using a high speed polisher i use a buffing bonnet and turtle wax polishing compound. do the whole car with this, and i'm telling u, depending on the amount of time and paitence you have, the results are amazing. laugh if you want, but for $50 ($30 for paint, about $20 for rollers, sand paper, ect...) it really looks good. also you can do these steps overnight, paint one evening and by morning u can wet sand. i have personally done alot of painting, mostly single stage acrylic enamel, and i've sprayed several cars in my garage with really good professional results, just it stinks, it's a real pain to do, easy to make a mistake, messy, and expensive. The tremclad is awesome paint, the "real orange" is an amazing hemi orange, and almost looks like it has some perl in the sun, awesome color right out of the can. I used this technique on my 1974 beetle also, here are the results:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/Picture10.jpg
the car before:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/IM000475.jpg
another after pic:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC00164.jpg
here is a car i sprayed (71 beetle, midnight blue metalic):
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC00194.jpg
here is the car before (71 beetle):
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/Picture1.jpg

here's a few pics of the charger done:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC02764.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC02769.jpg

well that's my 2 cents worth, sorry for the long post. i was borred lol
i painted the orange beetle in 1999, and it still looks like the day i painted it, the 71 blue beetle i painted in 2000, and built the car for my dad, i used the same paint on my charger, maybe one day i'll spring for a good paint job, prepping is 90% of the work, stripping the car, sanding, ect.....painting is overrated!!!
So if you have TIME, then i'd say go for it, the worst that could happen is that it does'nt turn out and your out $50, but if your paitient, and expriement with lets say just the trunk pannel and if you like it do the whole car, if not just get it done by someone else for $4000. i don't know about you guys, but i would rather spend the $4000 on other parts like getting the mechanics sorted out and new chrome, cause when u have really nice paint and crappy bumpers, door handles it just sticks out more.
Posted By: closer9

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/25/06 08:04 PM

Quote:

what ever happened to rattle can paint jobs? I think it gives cars a " I can take on anything" look.




I've got one! 1975 F100 SWB. Rattle can flat black, well not done yet... Just taking it one panel at a time, as I feel so inclined. Looks better than brown/tan missing the trim...
Posted By: patrick

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/25/06 08:13 PM

I know of a place here on the west side that will probably do it for that much....
Posted By: CJK440

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/25/06 08:14 PM

Dude, you painted this Charger with a roller??



Are you serious?? If so you rock!!

You can probably sell that article to Car Craft, they'd eat it up!!
Posted By: Russ

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/25/06 08:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

what ever happened to rattle can paint jobs? I think it gives cars a " I can take on anything" look.




I've got one! 1975 F100 SWB. Rattle can flat black, well not done yet... Just taking it one panel at a time, as I feel so inclined. Looks better than brown/tan missing the trim...




Thank goodness for Big Lots
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/25/06 08:20 PM

Quote:

here's how i painted my car for about $50, it's actually very easy and the results are amazing. First off, get a can of tremclad real orange (or what ever color u want) in the can, not spray, yes tremclad, it is a acrylic/enamel paint which is very durable. next prep your car as if was any other paint job, fix all the rust, ect....no need to prime the car since the tremclad allready contains elements which allow it to be painted over bare metal. next, after prepping the car get a small 4" professional FOAM rollers, it's tiny and has one end rounded off, and the other cut straight, and is a very high density foam. u also need a jug of mineral spirits to thin the paint. The thing i really like about this is that there's no mess, no tapeing the whole car, just key areas, and u can do it in your garage, since your not spraying there is virtually no dust in the air, just clean your garage first, also it does'nt really smell at all, dries overnight and it super tough paint. also it you decide to paint the car professionally later, just prep and paint, there's no need to strip the tremclad. i have done this to a few cars, and i can say it works amazing, u just have to be paitient. next u thin the paint with mineral spirits so it just about as thin as water, a little thicker. get out the roller and paint away, don't get the paint shaked when u buy it, enamel is stirred, otherwise you'll have bubbles in the paint for a week!!! after u do 2 coats, wet sand the whole car, then repeat, 2 coats, wetsand, 2 coats wetsand. i painted the charger using a can since your not spraying the car u use all the paint and not spray 50% in the air, use progressivly finer sand paper each time. it's not really that much work, cause u can stop and start any time, u can do just a door, or the hood, ect. do one panel at a time, and don't stop once you start. once your done the final coat, wetsand with about 1000 grit to a totally smooth finish, and then using a high speed polisher i use a buffing bonnet and turtle wax polishing compound. do the whole car with this, and i'm telling u, depending on the amount of time and paitence you have, the results are amazing. laugh if you want, but for $50 ($30 for paint, about $20 for rollers, sand paper, ect...) it really looks good. also you can do these steps overnight, paint one evening and by morning u can wet sand. i have personally done alot of painting, mostly single stage acrylic enamel, and i've sprayed several cars in my garage with really good professional results, just it stinks, it's a real pain to do, easy to make a mistake, messy, and expensive. The tremclad is awesome paint, the "real orange" is an amazing hemi orange, and almost looks like it has some perl in the sun, awesome color right out of the can. I used this technique on my 1974 beetle also, here are the results:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/Picture10.jpg
the car before:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/IM000475.jpg
another after pic:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC00164.jpg
here is a car i sprayed (71 beetle, midnight blue metalic):
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC00194.jpg
here is the car before (71 beetle):
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/Picture1.jpg

here's a few pics of the charger done:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC02764.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC02769.jpg

well that's my 2 cents worth, sorry for the long post. i was borred lol
i painted the orange beetle in 1999, and it still looks like the day i painted it, the 71 blue beetle i painted in 2000, and built the car for my dad, i used the same paint on my charger, maybe one day i'll spring for a good paint job, prepping is 90% of the work, stripping the car, sanding, ect.....painting is overrated!!!
So if you have TIME, then i'd say go for it, the worst that could happen is that it does'nt turn out and your out $50, but if your paitient, and expriement with lets say just the trunk pannel and if you like it do the whole car, if not just get it done by someone else for $4000. i don't know about you guys, but i would rather spend the $4000 on other parts like getting the mechanics sorted out and new chrome, cause when u have really nice paint and crappy bumpers, door handles it just sticks out more.



The Charger looks awesome. TREMCLAD? where can I get it?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/25/06 08:26 PM

Yes i painted it with a "profesional" high density foam roller. The trick is in how you thin the paint, get it as thin as possible without running, and the paint "self levels" it comes out like glass, wet sanding just makes it better, it all depends on how much time u have. i have sprayed a few cars in my garage with a single stage acrylic enamel and it's a pain, messy, stinks, ect... the tremclad is almost odorless and is really easy to work with. u can paint one day, wetsand the next and immedieatly recoat. once you got all the coats on, just wetsand and buff with a compound, then wax and your good to go. i've done 3 cars this way and the 74 beetle i did 6yrs ago, still looks awesome. the paint is cheap like $30 a gallon, you can get it tinted to any color u like. on the charger i used about 3/4 of a can, when u spray even with a HVLP gun, u still waste about 30% of the paint that just goes in the air. Tremclad is basically rust paint, but it is the new type which is a enamal. i still strip the car of chrome, bumpers, handles, keylocks, basically everything, and then just tape only using tape where i might get paint on something i don't want painted. the paint is tough, like stove paint when it's done, i've spilt gas on it in like really hot weather, and it resists stone chips really well. i had to repaint a fender on the beetle like 2 yrs ago, so i just got a small can of paint 3 yrs later and the color match is exact.
Posted By: cal_gecko

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/25/06 09:55 PM

Quote:

Yes i painted it with a "profesional" high density foam roller. The trick is in how you thin the paint, get it as thin as possible without running, and the paint "self levels" it comes out like glass, wet sanding just makes it better, it all depends on how much time u have. i have sprayed a few cars in my garage with a single stage acrylic enamel and it's a pain, messy, stinks, ect... the tremclad is almost odorless and is really easy to work with. u can paint one day, wetsand the next and immedieatly recoat. once you got all the coats on, just wetsand and buff with a compound, then wax and your good to go. i've done 3 cars this way and the 74 beetle i did 6yrs ago, still looks awesome. the paint is cheap like $30 a gallon, you can get it tinted to any color u like. on the charger i used about 3/4 of a can, when u spray even with a HVLP gun, u still waste about 30% of the paint that just goes in the air. Tremclad is basically rust paint, but it is the new type which is a enamal. i still strip the car of chrome, bumpers, handles, keylocks, basically everything, and then just tape only using tape where i might get paint on something i don't want painted. the paint is tough, like stove paint when it's done, i've spilt gas on it in like really hot weather, and it resists stone chips really well. i had to repaint a fender on the beetle like 2 yrs ago, so i just got a small can of paint 3 yrs later and the color match is exact.




This is really interesting! I'm thinking about using it on my beater car (90 Honda Civic).. where can this paint be purchased?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 02:06 AM

i'm up in Canada, here it's called Tremclad, in the US it would be the rustoleum or something like that, it's a rust paint, buffs really nice, but make sure it's the new stuff like a enamal, or acrylic enamal. goes right over anything and does'nt react with any old paint, right over bondo, don't use any primer, just the paint. on a car i used to have i had it professionally painted 4 yrs after i painted it and they put a base/clear on it with no isues. it's really easy to do just be paitient, take your time, test on something first and perfect the tequnique, as a hint if you try it first you paint the surface, and then really lightly "skim" the surface with the weight of the roller only to remove any lines bubbles ect, then just leave it for a minute or two and you'll see it just "self levels" totally flat to glass. then wetsand it really fine, use a spray bottle and keep the paper really wet, finish with a 1000 grit or so and then buff with a random orbit polisher using turtle wax POLISHING compound, NOT the rubbing compound, its' to harsh. it is critical to use the proper roller, it's about 4" wide and about 1 1/2" thick, and really high density white foam. it really works and is much tougher paint than todays single stage or base clear, very hard to scratch, but easy to buff. i get compliments on my paint jobs, and they never believe how i do it.
Posted By: T56DAK

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 02:58 AM

If that works, I owe you a six pack. And not talking about a top end of a motor. If you can tell us a US equivalent, that would be super. This would be acquired at a paint store, not a department store that sells Rustoleum products correct?
Posted By: safetymike1977

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 03:09 AM

You got to be kidding me! Wow... Must be time consuming though, but very cool. Beats the rattle can... Now your finge won't get tired.
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 03:24 AM

The best black paint job I can remember was done by a friend of mine and his dad back when we were in high school. They painted it with foam brushes, and buffed to a mirror shine.

All through high school he had the best paint job of any of our old hot rods. And they did it under their carport! I have no idea what kind of paint it was, but they put it on with the foam brushes and it did like you said, and self leveled.

-Dave
Posted By: max

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 03:25 AM

now that's a different way of painting a car, that's for sure

a friend of mine many, many years ago painted one with a Waggnor power painter and it didn't look bad from about 3-4 feet away so i guess as long as it lays down it will work.
Posted By: MNobody

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 03:43 AM

WOW that charger looks awesome!!!!! i'm in the same boat , can't afford an expensive paint job...please tell where the roller and paint can be found i'll buy ya keg!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: 68Cbarge

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 04:03 AM

Quote:

WOW that charger looks awesome!!!!! i'm in the same boat , can't afford an expensive paint job...please tell where the roller and paint can be found i'll buy ya keg!!!!!!!!!


Here in Canada,it is sold at Canadian Tire,Walmart,Home Depot,any hardware store,and Rona.I'm not sure of the U.S. equivalent of TREMCLAD is,maybe RUSTOLEUM.Just check the fine print on the cans,enamel,no priming required.Check any large hardware store chains.69 chargeryeahaa may want to open up shop....Hmmmm R.B.Autobody!!Roller & Brush!! Great job!! I am going to see 69 in two weeks.Gotta see that paint !!
Posted By: OkieSwinger69

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 04:16 AM

Concerning this self-leveling idea. I can see that happening on the top of the car. What about the sides? Very interesting idea, I need to paint a Swinger on the cheap.

Just google Tremclad. Lots of results.
Posted By: noisydart

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 05:45 AM

Well I went to www.rustoleum.com and they gave me a choice between the U.S. and Canada sites-
so I went Canadian and they list Tremclad, so it is a Rustoleum Canadian product.
Now who knows how this translates down in the U.S. of A.? But I'm sure with some e mails and/ or toll free number research w/ the rustoleum company, this can be determined!
Posted By: MNobody

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 05:59 AM

i did the web search and here's a website, i emailed for application procedures, tools needed and availability, when i hear back i'll post my findings but see what you can come up with.

Rpm international inc. i believe is the manufacturer.

oh and here's a link from rustoleum.

http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=548&SBL=5
Posted By: Scatpak

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 06:01 AM

That Charger looks great. I want to try that. I have just the car in mind too. You have a PM
Posted By: noisydart

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 06:09 AM

Good question from Okie Swinger about the "leveling" on the sides- more prone to dripping?
(I think I saw the Okie Swinger in "Grapes of Wrath" or was that a Deuce Coupe?)
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 06:23 AM

That job on your charer looks great. I've always kinda thought tremclad would work on a car, but I've never tried it. Could you tell me which grits of sandpaper you were using after each coat? I know my brother would love to do his rampage, and he doesn't have much money so this would be a great alternative. And who knows, if it comes out good enough, I may even do it on one of my cars.
Posted By: 69superbee383

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 08:24 AM

I wonder how using Rustoleum spray would be then wet sand vs. doing the roller. Maybe even use their clear coat. All this is really interesting..I wanted to make my Coronet a nice 318 beater car and this may be the way to do it.
Posted By: 340SHORTY

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 09:46 AM

Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 03:03 PM

not only a question about "self leveling" on the sides, but what about block sanding? how do you prevent "waves" in your paint? wet sand it with a block?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 03:52 PM

guys all i have to tell you is that i first painted a 85 honda crx at my cottage in 1 day, i had no money, i did like 3 coats with no sanding and it looked great, i should scan that old pic and show you!!!. The job only looks as good as the time and effort that you put into it. the paint is extreemly durable, think about it, it's used to paint over rusted metal on things like tractors, metal railings, ect... and stand the elements. it is formulated to do just that. the tequnique is critical, u have to have a "feel" for how much to thin the paint and u have to use mineral spirits, not paint thinner like varsol. I could not even imagine how well it would turn out if you sprayed it with a HVLP gun and wet sanded and polished. It does "self Level" on the sides just as it does on the flat level surfaces. Like i said before it is critical on how you thin the paint and how you apply it. i did the charger in about 3 days. i got sick of going to body shops and them telling me either they don't do classic cars and if they did want to do the car i need at least $5000 even though the car was stripped and prepped!!!! the auto painting industry is in my opinion a total rip off so if you want it done right and cheep, do it yourself!!! when the paint is thinned your barley putting on any paint with each coat, so you really need to do about 6 coats to get enough of a base so you can wet sand and polish. it took me a long time to figure out what steps to take to get awesome results. my 74 bug looks awesome even after 6 years the paint is still mint. looks like the day i did it. that paint dries FAST, so literally you can wetsand overnight. Keep in mind i know a little about painting, i've shoot a few cars with single stage enamel with professional results, but it's expensive and tedious. I used duplicolor paint, primer, reducer and primer sealer on this car:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC00194.jpg
it looked like this before paint:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/Picture1.jpg
that car was painted midnight metalic blue, and flips awesome in the sun. a very hard color to do cause it's almost black and shows every imperfection. but as you can see in the pic it came out awesome. but the materials alone (paint, reducer, primer, primer sealer) cost about $250 CDN, which was alot, never mind the work.
the "tremclad" paint is really a awesome alternetive, since your rollering it on there's no dust and you get a really clean paint job if you do it in your garage, where if you spray theres a battle with dust.
when i painted with the Tremclad i just use the paint, no primer, nothing, just the paint, right over bondo. like i mentioned before after wetsanding use a random orbit polisher and the cheapest POLISHING COMPOUND made by turtle wax, it comes in a paste in a small round flat container and it's white, allmost looks like hand cream and smells good too!!! I find that after thinning the paint with mineral spirits the paint "flashes" or dries really quickly, and after a overnight period it is completely dry, unlike automotive paint which takes up to 6 months to fully "cure" so litterally the next day you can sand, buff, polish, and wax the paint. on the charger the paint looks really good, i did not take a huge amount of time to perfect it because i really really wanted to drive it!!!. in the spring i plan on wetsanding and polishing it more, but yes it looks like the pics, really good. considering that it cost me about $50 i love it and i'm not paranoid about juicing it on a dirt road and going sideways worring about my precious paint job, i drive the car, hard and alot, after all is'nt that what they're made for? for $50 and a few days of work i can paint it again in a few years!!!! If your not good with your hands, and not a real detail person let someone else paint your car cause it can get ugly really fast!!!! if i had a shop, made a little paint booth and sprayed this stuff on and wetsanded and polished it, i'm sure i could paint show quality cars with $30 worth of paint. keep in mind this paint is really good, like i said bofore i bought a can 3 yrs later to repaint a fender on my 74 beatle and it was dead on for color match, that must tell you about the quality of the paint, i'd give you $100 if you could tell me which fender i painted on this car in person, and its' right out of the can:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC00164.jpg
keep in mind that you must still prep the car as you would with any other paint job, prepping is all the work and reflects the overall result.
i did not block sand the car just wetsand progressivly finer paper by HAND, no machine, no block nothing. using any "block" to sand i found the paper got dirty fast and got all plugged up, so do it by hand and keep it really wet, using a spray bottle in one hand and a clean bucket of water and a shammy (dollar store!!!)to clean it off to see how it looks. i prepped the car with 80, then 100, then 200, finished with a 400, did all my body work, and painted. after 2 coats (about 4hrs work for the whole car) i wetsanded with a 600, then did 2 more coats, wetsand with 800, 2 more coats and sand with a 1000-1500 and polish, followed by wax, done......
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 04:01 PM

I wonder how well it would look if you did this roller method, then followed up by shooting a coat of clear over top of it.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 04:22 PM

i probally would say it would turn out very nice. but the workability of the paint would end there, besides the paint buffs to mirror so i see no need for a clear coat. they have a clear coat in the tremclad brand made for the paint but i don't think it's nescessary. i reciently buffed out a huge scratch when a guy tried to jump me at a drive thru atm (long story!!!) and i florred it ran over his feet turning tires, and pinned him between the wall and my car. the whole rear quarter had a really bad scuff, maybe it was his teeth and the buttons on his jacket, anyways it buffed right out, with clear it would be hard to do that. so i would say there's no need for clear unless you really want a show car finish. thing i like about this paint ALOT is that there's no need for primer, primer sealer, ect.. it really simplifies the process. shooting a base clear or single stage acrylic enamel is a pain, u have "windows" to shoot each coat, and putting the primer sealer on, you have to shoot color within 30 mins or 15 days, man what if something goes wrong? lol
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 04:58 PM

one more pointer, when u wet sand the final coat, the paint looks flat, like velvet, if you take a rag soaked with mineral spirits and whipe a spot down that you just sanded, that's what it will look like buffed. if you buff and decide to paint again clean the area with mineral spirts so that and residue from the polishing compound is removed or the paint won't stick. otherwise i have to say the paint is really good, i had a rock hit my hood so hard it sounded like someone thru a golfball at my car really hard, i did'nt even want to look, but there was no chip, just bit of dust at the impact sight. that paint is really good stuff. i'm sure if it was labeled as a auto paint it would cost $200 a can, so keep it quiet shhhhhhh!!!!
Posted By: MNobody

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 05:14 PM

how warm does it have to be to paint?
Posted By: TonyS451

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 05:17 PM

What a cool idea. No paint booth, no overspray, easy masking, work at your own pace, REALLY inexpensive and you get tell all your friends you did it with a roller. Does the paint application have temperature requirements? Have you used it in door jambs as well? I'm saving this thread for sure.
Posted By: BurntOrange

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 05:25 PM

I think I'll paint the Fury with the blue on this page!

Rustoleum paint
Posted By: BSharp

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 05:45 PM

I think that page is for rattle-cans. Here's the brush-on page.
Posted By: roadrunninMark

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 05:45 PM

Does it make a difference if you already have an epoxy primer on it? Since you probably wouldnt be able to paint the same day as prepping or having the body work complete, I was wondering about having it sit around some and getting a little surface rust on it.
Mark
Posted By: BobR

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 05:49 PM

I hate to be a "fly in this ointment" but if I spend 200 hours filling and blocksanding(like I just did) I am not going to roll on the paint and I have NEVER seen anything but epoxy or etch primer stick effectively to bare metal. If this stuff is Canada's version of Rustoleum it will not stick sufficiently enough to bare metal for me to paint a "cool" car with. Maybe a "winter beater" -Bob
Posted By: noisydart

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 06:17 PM

Bob- I hear what you're saying, but if you could
paint this stuff over epoxy primer, that might be good.
And if it does have good rust protection, it might be worth while experimenting. Your many hours of prep aren't really going to be ruined by the topcoat Tremclad/Rustoleum and it could be
block sanded off if it didn't work.
Posted By: BobR

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 06:24 PM

Yes, over some DP primer would be better as at least you know the metal is protected. I am not against using paint "off label" as I just used Ameron catylized urethane to paint my engine compartment but I did spray it on. -Bob
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 07:05 PM

This is very interesting post to read.

Mike
Posted By: jrwoodjoe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 07:08 PM

I agree, it is interesting. Do you have a close-up photo of the paint on your charger or bug?

Joe
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 07:47 PM

As far as temperature goes it really doesn’t matter, I did my 74 beetle in the dead of winter, it was like -20 deg Celsius, I had a portable heater in the garage and 2x 1500W flood lights, I was warm enough. The charger I did this past September in about 25 deg Celsius and it was really humid with no difference, where when I sprayed a single stage on the 71 beetle I had to use the proper temperature reducer. As far as getting this paint to stick, all I can say is that it is made to be painted on BARE and RUSTED metal. The stuff sticks to rubber, glass, anything, like sh*t on a blanket (if you have kids you'll know what I mean !!! lol). I have no issues or question in my mind that this stuff sticks like crazy to bare metal. I'm sure it would stick on epoxy primer if you sand it with 800 grit before. I have never had any reaction to anything that I’ve painted over, I’ve painted motorcycle gas tanks and plastic covers, 3 cars, over base clear, the front fenders on the charger are fiberglass, no issues. I’ve painted over automotive primer on my 74 beetle where I had exposed metal and knew I would leave it exposed for a while and didn’t want it to rust. I painted right over bondo, where I had a few really minor scratches and dents that I couldn’t bang out, no issues. I had a drop of the paint on glass, it was really hard to get off, I was afraid to use a razor because it could scratch my new windshield so I used a credit card and it was really, really hard to get off. I painted the door jambs, under trunk lid, under hood, everything. Try one panel and see it if works, u have to experiment with it, it took a lot of trial and error for me to get the "technique" down pat. my car is by no means a show car, but I couldn’t justify a $5000 paint job after just buying the car for $11000, buying new bumpers, door handles, emblems, all rubber, windshield, brake booster, heater core, headliner, carpet, door panels, brakes, ect....I spent all my money on the aesthetics, and mechanics, not to mention the car. I kind of rushed the charger because I HAD to drive my dream car as soon as I could. My 74 beetle I really took my time with and it is and looks like a $5000 paint job. I used a foam brush to paint the jambs and tight spots, and just ran the foam roller over it to smooth it out. I used tremclad flat black in a spray can for the rear tail panel on the charger.

Here are a bunch of close up good high res pics I just took of the car and the supplies I used and a few other pics of the beetle’s I painted:

http://photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/paint/?start=0

If you have a show car that you've rotisserie nut and bolt restored and have $40000.00 into it then get it painted by someone for $10000.00. If you want a nice, clean, good driver, cheap, easy to do paint job yourself, have the time and patience then try this method. I could strip and prep the car in 1 day since all the body work is done, and have it professionally painted any time if I want. If you have the equipment to spray it on, then by all means spray it on, it would turn out just like any other automotive paint job, only the paint would be a lot cheaper!!!, not to mention you don’t need primer, primer sealer, reducer, ect…. I didn’t want to borrow a compressor again, lug it home, get over spray everywhere, tape the whole car, worry about dust and do a ton more work associated with spraying; been there done that!!!!. Using a roller makes it super easy to do, but it is tricky. This method is not for everyone, but it’s the way I did it!!! My 74 beetle as I mentioned earlier was painted in 1999, I’ve since put 35,000mi, the paint still looks like the day I did it. I did not intend to make my car a show car, just a nice driver, it’s not laser straight, dent free, or perfect, but it sure gets me thumbs up where ever I go and I only spent $50 on supplies, and that ain’t to bad at all.
Posted By: TonyS451

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 07:51 PM

Seems like it may require a little extra pressure on the roller to get in a corner or crevice (like drip rails or around lens openings or any place where it might not be completely flat). I can see that possibly causing excess paint to run from the roller around those areas. My guess is steady pressure on the roller is very important. Any tips for getting around those places?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 08:06 PM

well basically i have the roller in one hand, and the foam "paint brush" (in the pics) in the other. you have to work fast because the paint becoms non workable in about 10 mins. so i do one pannel at a time. it goes quickly, takes about 1 hour for a coat on the whole car, i've done 2 coats in 1 day no issues, it dries fast. but for wet sanding i wait overnight. basically in the rain channels i would use the brush and cover it completely, then use the rounded end of the roller and go over it, it's hard to describe, u just have to be paitent and expirement on one pannel like the trunk lid and do the whole process and see if your happy, it's easy to bail the project with only having to re-do the trunklid if you can't handle it or have one of those "what the f*&k am i doing" moments!!!. I also load the roller up quite heavily, then work it until the roller does'nt have so much paint in it and do the detail work after. once you spread the paint wait a minute or so and then just really gently run the roller using only the weight of the roller, on the sides just use very very light pressure as if it were the weight of it. How you thin the paint is critical, i have not had one paint run on any of the cars i've painted. To give you an idea, you really only start to have full coverage to where u can't see any body work or underlying color thru the paint until the 3rd coat. Oh and i strip the car of all chrome, bumpers, rubber, door handles, trim, ect...nothing looks cheaper than a car that's just taped!!! That's the best i can explain it!!
Posted By: TonyS451

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 08:09 PM

The shine on the cars (both the orange bug and the Charger)does not seem that deep. Maybe its the angle of the pictures...Would you say the shine is every bit as deep as any sprayed car you've seen? I'm not trying to be critical, just want to know what I may be getting myself into here. I still think its a great idea and give you a lot of credit for trying it and more importantly, making it work.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 08:17 PM

i would not compare the shine to a base clear paint job, but i would compare it to a good single stage acrylic enamel paint job. plus the more you buff the shinyer it gets, that's where i got lazy, but i plan to buff and wetsand more when i have the free time. i did the charger in 3 days, like i said i was ancy to get it done, doing the pee-pee dance dying to drive it so i rushed it a bit. in the sun it looks amazing, at night it looks perfect, in the shade you can see some flaws but i was not looking for a "perfect" paint job. the beetle however i did over the winter and it really looks good, no complaints. 3 weeks after i bought the charger i was driving it, it was totally stripped, re-did the interior, all the mechanics, and body work. it would have been done sooner if i would have got all the parts i ordered eariler. looking back i don't regret it at all, it was easy and got me on the road fast and cheep. I can allways re-do the paint anytime.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 08:25 PM

for 3 days work to get a car on the road looking great for about $50 i'm have no complaints. if i get a few years out of it it's definetly worth it, all depends on what YOU want out of it. like i said before, if you spray it on i am positive it would come out absoultly amazing.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 08:52 PM

My satellite's got an aging single stage paint job on it, and I can say that the shine on it is still higher than on your beetle and charger, but taking into account the price of your paint job, I'd say the results are pretty damn good. For that price you could not buy enough spray paint cans to do the whole car and with as thick of a coat as you've done.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 09:08 PM

The paint on the car is not thick at all. 4 coats of paint that i sprayed on the 71 beetle midnight blue car (1 initial tack coat, 2 medium, and 1 flash coat to get the metalic uniform)used just over a can of paint with a HVLP gun on a beetle (they don't get smaller than that!!!) plus take into acount that about 1/3 is reducer. i used about 3/4 of a can on the charger, the paint is really thin. like i said eairler, you only cover up the bodywork, underlying color until after the 4th coat, keep in mind that there is wet sanding in between each 2 coats. The charger is at least twice the surface area of the beetle, the paint on the 71 beetle is thicker than the paint on the charger and the 74 orange beetle. regarding the shine, if i spent 2 more days wetsanding and buffing the shine would be that of any professional single stage paint job on the charger. that being said like i mentioned earlier it depends on what YOU want out of the paint job, the thread topic is "paint job on a budget" and that is exactly what it is, plus i'm not paranoid about doing a dukes of hazzard drift on a dirt road and worrying about my precious paint. the car gets driven alot, and hard, every weekend to the cottage (400km round trip) and it gets stone chips, ect...so i'm not worried.
Posted By: BobR

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 09:09 PM

Quote:

for 3 days work to get a car on the road looking great for about $50 i'm have no complaints. if i get a few years out of it it's definetly worth it, all depends on what YOU want out of it. like i said before, if you spray it on i am positive it would come out absoultly amazing.




I don't think any of us are laughing. You got a lot of bang-for-your buck. Just goes to show how a little out-of-the-box thinking can pay off. I do still have an issue with the bond as I have seen a lot of paint that claimed to bond to anything not bond worth a darn especially to bare metal and fiberglass. I also think that the shine is not as intense as with "good" paint but it has a look that is not entirely unappealing. -Bob
Posted By: TonyS451

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 09:32 PM

I'm not so interested in the cheapness of the paint as much as I am the ease of applying it. I have a small 2 car garage and no real ventilation, and it would take me forever to make a paint booth, and get the area ready for paint, not to mention getting the car ready and masked off. Then I would still have to worry about the dirt, overspray and ventilation issues (and the wasted paint). Who's to say you couldn't take this roller idea and still apply the primer and paint of choice? Maybe an extra couple hundred dollars, but still well worth it for a guy trying to paint his car a couple hours at a time and not make a huge mess of it. You can buy a gallon of Omni single stage for around $100 bucks or less. Not for the hemicuda restos, but perfect for the weekend warriors and "real" streetcars out there.
Posted By: Bee4Me

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 09:36 PM

I talked with a VERY knowledgable paint manufacture today about this and it's basically S&W Industrial Enamel paint.
I'd paint a beater with it on the cheap but you ARE going to have adhesion problems and it IS going to FADE just like ANY enamel if it's an outside yard dog.
For MY time and effort, I'll stick with BC/CC thank you.
Posted By: 70Coronet500Vert

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 09:42 PM

Quote:

I talked with a VERY knowledgable paint manufacture today about this and it's basically S&W Industrial Enamel paint.
I'd paint a beater with it on the cheap but you ARE going to have adhesion problems and it IS going to FADE just like ANY enamel if it's an outside yard dog.
For MY time and effort, I'll stick with BC/CC thank you.




::shakes head at some people::

Well it looks like you got lots of yea's and the typical naysayer. I'd say you provided some good info. I just used those exact rollers to paint the cabinets in my kitchen. When properly loaded with un thinned paint, the texture of the finish was almost nil. Had I thinned the paint, I could see this stuff going on smooth.

Good info.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 10:05 PM

i'm not here to argue about the adhesion properties of the paint, the quality of the paint, what it really is, blah, blah, blah...i can say the paint IS MADE TO STICK TO BARE METAL, WOOD, FIBERGLASS, RUSTED METAL, CATS, DOGS, BIRDS, GRASS, GERBILS, basically anything (read the can). it's real easy to work with, does'nt smell at all (all you really smell is the mineral spirits used to thin the paint) plus i have had no reactions with underlying paint in any way shape of form on all the stuff i painted with it period. i would say it sticks roughly at least twice as good as any high quality single stage paint\primer\primer sealer out there. I've painted it in cold conditions and hot humid conditions with no issues. No fish eyes, peel, nothing. i've painted over it with single stage and BC/CC with NO ISSUES. The paint seems very inert, not prone to any of the stuff that auto paint is prone to. I have used the paint alot and can say it has not peeled, flaked off, nothing on anything i've used it on. Hell i even still have a 71 Kawasaki motorcycle i painted 15 years ago over the original paint and it still looks great.

TonyS451-there is no need for primer with this paint, if u have to use primer because you can't sleep at night then do so if u must, but trust me your just wasting your time. Automotive paints that are made for cars such as single stage or BC/CC are made to be sprayed, and NEED reducers/hardners to cure and dry properly, it's critical that they be used correctly, there is even different reducers depending on what temperatures u are shooting the paint in, so i would not compare this paint to auto paint nor try to roller auto paint. I have sprayed several cars, the 71 beetle in the pics as mentioned before was painted single stage acrylic enamel in my garage with a home made ventelation system, and i wetted down the floor when i was painting to keep dust down, and used a tack cloth ALOT. That car came out perfect, very hugh quality paint BUT it was a major pain in the butt, taping, dust, smell, washing paint out of my hair and nose for a week!!!!

Once again i'll mention that the thread title is "paint job on a budget" read the thread title BEFORE you comment. If you have a #'s match Hemi cuda vert, 1 of 1 concept car, with 0.0003 original miles, and a build sheet engraved in platinum u found under the rear seat, get it done profesionally. if you have the skill and time to do it my way and have a weekend warrior that you don't want to be embarhassed to drive but don't crap $ every night after dinner then give it a shot!!!
oh and for those of you who think it has adhesion problems and it won't stick well i have this news update that just came in "your right" it's all a lie, i made the whole thing up. after i painted the car the paint peeled off like suran cling wrap.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 10:11 PM

I'm saving this one, it should be put in the archives!
Posted By: Gas_Bandit

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 01/26/06 10:20 PM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 10:37 PM

Quote:

if you have the skill and time to do it my way and have a weekend warrior that you don't want to be embarhassed to drive but don't crap $ every night after dinner then give it a shot!!!




First of all, I crap my $ out after breakfast!!!

Seriousely, though, your idea is very sound and I take it way more seriousely than someone who comes on here and says "trust me, the electric supercharger on ebay really does add a lot of horsepower" Anyone can tell that you have been experimenting around with this, no matter how much the idea breaks with traditional thinking.

Please keep posting more details about this because it's a very interesting topic to a lot of us. I would love to see that charger if you decide to do even more polishing/buffing. Thanks for the info.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 01/26/06 10:48 PM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: Jerry

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 11:13 PM

my concern is how to really thin the paint. i've got an autocross car i'd be willing to try this on. in any case... i am hoping for a little more scientific approach than it looks a little thicker than water. can we get 1:1 or 1:10 or 1:whatever?
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 11:26 PM

does anyone think you can roll on bc/cc? who says it has to be spray only?

I'm more interested in the method. anyone can brush/roll on paint and sand it smooth.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 11:31 PM

well it just goes by "feel", theres no ratio that i could come up with because once you open the can and pour some out the next day the paint will be a bit thicker. if i had to guess i would say about 20% thinner or so? just thin enough that it does'nt run, but not too thick. keep in mind that you can allways add more paint to the mix if you go too thin. and the coats go on really really thin, that is the key, like i said before you don't really have a true non transparent base until the 3rd or 4th coat.
There is no way i would try to roll on BC/CC it would definetly not work. that paint is ment to be atomized when sprayed, and you could never thin it down to the point where it does not run and is thin enough to apply. plus it would dry too fast with the correct reducers and flash over too quick. i think it would be impossible. when u just paint and sand, you're going to be sanding too much, and the paint is hard resulting in waves in the paint unless u sand really consistently, so the key is to lay it on thin and sand as little as possible, also when the paint layer is thin and the paint is thinned properly it "self levels" it's like bondo, u mix it up and it's just in a blob, let it sit for a few minutes and it flattens out, thats just what the paint does.
hope that helps
Posted By: noisydart

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 11:43 PM

Keep it coming 69 Chargeryeehaw.
GREAT IDEAS
Posted By: Jerry

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 11:44 PM

also i assume this only works for solid colors. have you tried doing stripes or anything?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 11:55 PM

yes, metalics are out of the picture here, no i haven't tried doing stripes but i imagine it would be easy.
Posted By: 69superbee383

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/26/06 11:59 PM

I was desribing what I have read here to one of my mechanics at work today. His dad also runs a small body shop and paints boats. He said oh yeah we do that method a lot with boats and basically described a similar method of application. Said that it sticks to boat hulls great and lasts longer than some marine epoxies. If it stands up to the crap we call water here it may hold up on a car. I am going to play with an old Duster fender this weekend if I have time and see how it works out.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 01/27/06 12:01 AM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: plymouthfan

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 12:04 AM

This is definitely one of the more interesting threads I've read in a while here. You have to hand it to him, he thought outside the box, and it seems to have paid off. The photo's don't lie, but only time will tell how the paint holds up. It's true there are no guarantee's, but for the amount of time and money spent it seemed worth the effort.

High density foam rollers are pretty amazing, I use them all the time around the house on wood and metal. I refinished my fridge pictured below with a roller and POR-15 engine enamal. I think it turned out pretty great and I didn't put half the effort he put into his car. Of course it doesn't sit out in the sun or rain, but it worked.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 12:05 AM

What about when you have to paint the bulk of the car? Like the roof, pillars and rear 1/4's all at once cause they're all one piece? Doesn't the paint on the roof dry by the time you get done one side and then start on the other, or are you starting on the bottom of one side and working up across and down the other side of the car? Or does the light coats and sanding make it okay? I'm pretty much just wondering if you have any kind of a seam line on the top of the car. Lol, and I emailed a link to this thread to my brother, and he wants to do it to his rampage. It'd be a perfect candidate to try this out on, seeing as the roller job done by the previous owner is looking real bad these days.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 12:08 AM

oh and yes, i've heard of alot of people using this paint to paint fiberglass boats too, infact i painted my little sail boat with it and it's holding up great. my wife actually gave me the idea first about 12 yrs ago one day at the cottage to paint my 85 honda crx (which was white) and we painted it black, i just scuffed up the paint, and painted it with some old rust paint and those rollers my dad had in the garage. would you believe i drove that car for like 3 more years? it really looked good.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 12:15 AM

Quote:

What about when you have to paint the bulk of the car? Like the roof, pillars and rear 1/4's all at once cause they're all one piece? Doesn't the paint on the roof dry by the time you get done one side and then start on the other, or are you starting on the bottom of one side and working up across and down the other side of the car? Or does the light coats and sanding make it okay? I'm pretty much just wondering if you have any kind of a seam line on the top of the car.




i was wondering when someone would ask that question. well basically i do the hood, doors, front fenders, and the trunk, that's easy. then i do the whole roof and sail pannels in one shot working fast, there's enough time to do it before the paint tacks up if u rush it, not the time to have a coffee or smoke. i stopped at the rear quarter just below the sail pannels and top quarter pannel where there is a edge to stop at. then continue from there on each side meeting in the back rear valance. the trick there is to not leave and raised paint lines, and smooth it out gradually as u approach the point where u stop, then run to the other side and do the other half of the roof and overlap the strokes. wetsanding does the rest, but u try to make it as smooth as possible, the paint is very thin on each coat. it's really hard to describe, that's where all the expirementing comes in to play.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 12:19 AM

Quote:

The photo's don't lie, but only time will tell how the paint holds up. It's true there are no guarantee's, but for the amount of time and money spent it seemed worth the effort.




i can say i'm on 6 yrs and 35,000mi and counting on the orange 74 beetle, so time has told me that it holds up. Still looks like the day i did it.
for those who haven't seen the pics, here they are, the beetle pics were this past summer (there's 2 pages of pics BTW)
http://photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/paint/
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 12:24 AM

I painted my chev S-10 with John Deere yellow construction paint. Mind you i sprayed it on but it looked really good.
Posted By: TonyS451

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 01:17 AM

Just curious, what happens when you try rubbing compound? You mention its too rough. To me, it seems like an important step to eliminate from the finishing process. I know in my limited painting experience, if going from wet sanding directly to a machine glaze, the gloss would be knowhere near as deep as if I had used a rubbing compound first.
Posted By: Shawns_Cuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 01:21 AM

I'm going to give this a shot this weekend on my project car. In case anyone was wondering here's a pricelist from Lowes Home Improvement. This is an awesome thread.

Rustoleum $24.57 for all colors (1 gal)
Mineral Spirits $8.42
Foam brush w/ roller (4") $3.47
Foam brush refills (4") (2 pack) @ $3.47 (6 pack) @ $9.32
Flat foam brush (2").57 ea (3").74 (4").82
Roller tray (3 pack) $1.28
"Water" proof sandpaper (5 sheet pack) $2.97 all grits

I'll post before and after pics here or maybe I can get John to post some on the website. I'll also try to get dilution ratios if I remember at the time.

Shawn
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 01:23 AM

the rubbing compound could be used if you really want to, i just found it much better to wetsand with 1000 grit and then go straight to polishing, that's what worked for me. the rubbing compound seemed to ball up under the polisher and make a mess and make some scratches when it balled up, i used the polishing compound on a regular bonnet on a 10" elecrtic random orbit polisher, it's only after polishing that it looks like glass, and i kept it wet with water from a spray bottle on the bonnet, forgot to mention that, but keeping it quite wet worked great.
Posted By: FuryUs

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 01/27/06 01:44 AM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: 69superbee383

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 01:55 AM

Ok I was bored tonight so I ran down to Home Depot and picked up a quart of Rustoleum 7747 Sunburst yellow paint. Also got a quart of mineral spirits and the high density foam rollers. or giggles I also got a spray can of the same paint. I swear that color looks a lot like a cross between Viper Yellow and FY 1.

Enter one torn up Duster fender...I painted the bottom with the spray bomb then mixed some paint with the mineral spirits and like he said I just did it till it felt right...took the roller and applied it to the top of the fender..it is cold tonight and actually that isnt bad since it made it easier to work with. You can do the fender lips and edges using the rounded edge. It seems to give it a different texture but I am thinking it will lay down and not be visible. Well first coat on and I can tell it is laying down. To be honest the sprayed part looks really good already. I will let it dry tonight and reapply another coat tomorrow then wet sand on Saturday...I will play with this over the weekend and I am really interested to see how this comes out...next up my girlfriends beater Neon...
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 02:02 AM

Quote:

Ok I was bored tonight so I ran down to Home Depot and picked up a quart of Rustoleum 7747 Sunburst yellow paint. Also got a quart of mineral spirits and the high density foam rollers. or giggles I also got a spray can of the same paint. I swear that color looks a lot like a cross between Viper Yellow and FY 1.

Enter one torn up Duster fender...I painted the bottom with the spray bomb then mixed some paint with the mineral spirits and like he said I just did it till it felt right...took the roller and applied it to the top of the fender..it is cold tonight and actually that isnt bad since it made it easier to work with. You can do the fender lips and edges using the rounded edge. It seems to give it a different texture but I am thinking it will lay down and not be visible. Well first coat on and I can tell it is laying down. To be honest the sprayed part looks really good already. I will let it dry tonight and reapply another coat tomorrow then wet sand on Saturday...I will play with this over the weekend and I am really interested to see how this comes out...next up my girlfriends beater Neon...




do another coat, try to put it on really light, i hope u prepped the fender a little before you started painting. when u wet sand try using a 600-800 grit, and lightly wet sand the fender with light pressure and ALOT of water. Spraying it on should maybe work better but its messy, stinky, and a pain. when u first start to wet sand you'll notice the paper just kinda glides over the paint and it does'nt really feel like your sanding anything, keep going, soon the water will stop beeding off the paint and it will start to turn yellow. after wetsanding it looks like crap, this is where the polishing come in, brings it to glass.
Posted By: MNobody

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 02:23 AM

any idea if they can mix specific colors. my whole car is royal blue and i don't want to do the trunk, engine compartment and door jambs.....man i just realized if alot of us do this he's gonna have a lot of beer to drink....
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 02:33 AM

home depot has a scanner and can scan a paint sample and tint the paint for you, just no metalics. but yes basically u can get it in a custom color.
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 02:44 AM

69chargeryeeha, Do you realize what you have done here? I have not seen this much interest in a thread in a while. I posted a link to it over at dodgecharger dot com and already 2 guys over there are running out to home depot!!!
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 03:15 AM

I thought that I had a desent job at about 300.00 for primer and base/clear including having a friend spray it his bosses booth. I bought the Omni paint.
Posted By: sixpackbee

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 03:15 AM

This is driving me crazy.
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 03:25 AM

Quote:

guys all i have to tell you is that i first painted a 85 honda crx at my cottage in 1 day, i had no money, i did like 3 coats with no sanding and it looked great, i should scan that old pic and show you!!!. The job only looks as good as the time and effort that you put into it. the paint is extreemly durable, think about it, it's used to paint over rusted metal on things like tractors, metal railings, ect... and stand the elements. it is formulated to do just that. the tequnique is critical, u have to have a "feel" for how much to thin the paint and u have to use mineral spirits, not paint thinner like varsol. I could not even imagine how well it would turn out if you sprayed it with a HVLP gun and wet sanded and polished. It does "self Level" on the sides just as it does on the flat level surfaces. Like i said before it is critical on how you thin the paint and how you apply it. i did the charger in about 3 days. i got sick of going to body shops and them telling me either they don't do classic cars and if they did want to do the car i need at least $5000 even though the car was stripped and prepped!!!! the auto painting industry is in my opinion a total rip off so if you want it done right and cheep, do it yourself!!! when the paint is thinned your barley putting on any paint with each coat, so you really need to do about 6 coats to get enough of a base so you can wet sand and polish. it took me a long time to figure out what steps to take to get awesome results. my 74 bug looks awesome even after 6 years the paint is still mint. looks like the day i did it. that paint dries FAST, so literally you can wetsand overnight. Keep in mind i know a little about painting, i've shoot a few cars with single stage enamel with professional results, but it's expensive and tedious. I used duplicolor paint, primer, reducer and primer sealer on this car:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC00194.jpg
it looked like this before paint:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/Picture1.jpg
that car was painted midnight metalic blue, and flips awesome in the sun. a very hard color to do cause it's almost black and shows every imperfection. but as you can see in the pic it came out awesome. but the materials alone (paint, reducer, primer, primer sealer) cost about $250 CDN, which was alot, never mind the work.
the "tremclad" paint is really a awesome alternetive, since your rollering it on there's no dust and you get a really clean paint job if you do it in your garage, where if you spray theres a battle with dust.
when i painted with the Tremclad i just use the paint, no primer, nothing, just the paint, right over bondo. like i mentioned before after wetsanding use a random orbit polisher and the cheapest POLISHING COMPOUND made by turtle wax, it comes in a paste in a small round flat container and it's white, allmost looks like hand cream and smells good too!!! I find that after thinning the paint with mineral spirits the paint "flashes" or dries really quickly, and after a overnight period it is completely dry, unlike automotive paint which takes up to 6 months to fully "cure" so litterally the next day you can sand, buff, polish, and wax the paint. on the charger the paint looks really good, i did not take a huge amount of time to perfect it because i really really wanted to drive it!!!. in the spring i plan on wetsanding and polishing it more, but yes it looks like the pics, really good. considering that it cost me about $50 i love it and i'm not paranoid about juicing it on a dirt road and going sideways worring about my precious paint job, i drive the car, hard and alot, after all is'nt that what they're made for? for $50 and a few days of work i can paint it again in a few years!!!! If your not good with your hands, and not a real detail person let someone else paint your car cause it can get ugly really fast!!!! if i had a shop, made a little paint booth and sprayed this stuff on and wetsanded and polished it, i'm sure i could paint show quality cars with $30 worth of paint. keep in mind this paint is really good, like i said bofore i bought a can 3 yrs later to repaint a fender on my 74 beatle and it was dead on for color match, that must tell you about the quality of the paint, i'd give you $100 if you could tell me which fender i painted on this car in person, and its' right out of the can:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC00164.jpg
keep in mind that you must still prep the car as you would with any other paint job, prepping is all the work and reflects the overall result.
i did not block sand the car just wetsand progressivly finer paper by HAND, no machine, no block nothing. using any "block" to sand i found the paper got dirty fast and got all plugged up, so do it by hand and keep it really wet, using a spray bottle in one hand and a clean bucket of water and a shammy (dollar store!!!)to clean it off to see how it looks. i prepped the car with 80, then 100, then 200, finished with a 400, did all my body work, and painted. after 2 coats (about 4hrs work for the whole car) i wetsanded with a 600, then did 2 more coats, wetsand with 800, 2 more coats and sand with a 1000-1500 and polish, followed by wax, done......



If you wanted metalic why couldn't upi mix in metalic flakes?? Just a thought. I know you would have to keep them stirred up to get them somwhat even. That would be the main problem with the roller technique but if it were sprayed???
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 03:36 AM

the paint would be to thin with metalic in the paint and it would shift, if you sprayed the paint on then of course the metalics would work just like they do on a single stage acrylic enamel.
Posted By: 65Frank

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 01:49 PM

For a post that started out as "where can I paint my car for $3000", this is a heck of an interesting post.
How many colors does this stuff come in? Can it be tinted to near any factory color?
I think I'm in for a trip to HD this weekend, pick up a piece of 16 guage and start experimenting!!

Paint - $30
Supplies - $20
Look on people's face when you tell them its put on with a roller - PRICELESS
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 03:07 PM

69chargeryeehaa , thanks for the time you're taking to explain this, very interesting.

I think I'll give it a shot too. I have an old door from a 65 Valiant I can experiment on. I'm going to try a beige or sand type color, and if it looks good I'll probably do my whole dart with it!
Posted By: CJK440

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 03:22 PM

Looking at the 2 different rustoleum sites I am not sure if Tremclad is just Rustoleum with different name. It seems to be marketed differently in Canada and no real equivalent on the USA site.

It might not meet EPA standards in the USA.
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 03:26 PM

HMMMM- I have a horse trailer in need of paint. That should work well for a trial.
Posted By: 71vert340

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 04:19 PM

This is a very interesting thread. I painted my Jeep CJ5 with the Rustoleum paint but thinned it and sprayed it on-red by the way and it looks great. It sits outside and is holding up well to rain, frost, and snow. I just could't see spending $$$s on a vehicle used off road It took about 1 1/2 Qts. to do the jeep and a gallon of thinner. It ended up about $30 total and people think it looks good. I have good adhesion to the paint underneath. I only spray canned primer on the bare metal spots. It looked so good I did my BroncoII in Sept. with Rustoleum enamel and it's holding up good in the winter weather too1. Get the gloss by the way.
Posted By: max

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 04:23 PM

wonder how this would work on engine blocks?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 04:28 PM

i've painted engine accessories like air cleaners, pulleys, fans, with the rattle can version, but on the block it self i would only use a engine enamel, i would'nt want to expirement with the rust paint and have it not hold up to the heat. i have had really good luck with duplicolor engine enamel in a rattle can, in my pics, both the beetle engine tins were painted with it and it looks just like when i did it, also keep in mind that those VW air-cooled beetles run HOT, over 400* deg F, and the paint is perfect after 6 years.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 04:46 PM

This is really a great thread,thanks a lot 69chargeryeehaa!
The A-100 might get that treatment when it's time to paint.

One note about the Duplicolor spary can engine enamel - my buddy and I had nothing but trouble with them as compared to the Plastikote. On more than one occasion they would fish-eye like crazy, and not cover very well. Using the Plastikote solved the problem. It happened more than once, so we swore never to use Duplicolor. But the Duplicolor in Canada can be diffeenet than the Duplicolor in So-Cal.

Ran

P.S. - I see the "it doesn't look nearly as good as my custom $10,000 paint job" criticizm has died down, thank god.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 05:18 PM

I was at walmart this morning and saw some Rustoleum enamel in smallish cans for about $7.50

They had some that were "flat" and some were "gloss". Since this techique uses buffing at the end to get the shine, is there a reason to go with gloss or not gloss paint?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 05:49 PM

use the gloss, the flat has flattening adjents in it and i doubt it would buff as good as the gloss.
Posted By: 73cudaproject

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 06:04 PM

69Chargeryeehaa here is my situation. I have been sidetracked from working on my '73 barracuda project by a '65 F-100 stepside pickup I picked up real cheap (I kick myself for getting side tracked by this project and just want to get it completed and out of the way...) I have completed sand blasting the truck and welding in patch panels. This weekend I planned on doing my first spraying by applying a coat of epoxy primer then starting the filler, sanding, primer, etc. work until I had it ready for paint. I happen to have a can of the Rustoleum rusty metal primer at home which I have never openned and consider using on the floor boards. I have been told to apply epoxy primer first then body filler and the rest of the body work. I want to give this method a try on this truck. Should I just give it a roll-on coat of primer, then do the body work then give this method a try or do you recommend putting filler directly over the bare metal and I believe you said to apply this paint directly over filler? Thanks!
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 06:14 PM

Quote:

69Chargeryeehaa here is my situation. I have been sidetracked from working on my '73 barracuda project by a '65 F-100 stepside pickup I picked up real cheap (I kick myself for getting side tracked by this project and just want to get it completed and out of the way...) I have completed sand blasting the truck and welding in patch panels. This weekend I planned on doing my first spraying by applying a coat of epoxy primer then starting the filler, sanding, primer, etc. work until I had it ready for paint. I happen to have a can of the Rustoleum rusty metal primer at home which I have never openned and consider using on the floor boards. I have been told to apply epoxy primer first then body filler and the rest of the body work. I want to give this method a try on this truck. Should I just give it a roll-on coat of primer, then do the body work then give this method a try or do you recommend putting filler directly over the bare metal and I believe you said to apply this paint directly over filler? Thanks!




i did'nt use any primer, just did the repairs and bodywork using bondo, but i did'nt have and major rust to speak of, just dents, scratchs, and chips mostly. i just put bondo right over bare metal, then followed by just the paint, that's it. as long as no water gets in from behind then it should be ok. if you can access the back of the pannel you're repairing then spray some undercoating, i use the professional "rubberized" undercoat (not the ashfault stuff) and it's never let me down, that stuff is awesome and is even paintable after your done. Make sure you have all the "cancer" out of the metal and then go a little more to get rid of any "oxidized" metal so rust does'nt start. Keep in mind that the rust paint is formulated to go over BARE and RUSTED METAL, so like i said before if you can't sleep at night because u did'nt use primer or epoxy sealer then do it, but it's just a waste of time in my opinion. The 74 orange beetle was done 6 yrs ago, goes in the rain, i've put 35,000mi on the car and i have no issues with any rust at all, and there is a little bondo on it but no holes before paint. as for getting it smooth i would just use a fine grain bondo, try to keep the layers down, the thinner the better, just enough to make it straight, and block sand the bondo to get it arrow straight, then go straight to paint, hope that helps....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 07:23 PM

I'm a seasoned veteran of these roller jobs before using Tremclad and the technique just like he said. Always came out great!!! Especially when you live in an apt complex and can't make too much of a stink in the building. It do work good!

One note though where I have to disagree... I went to repaint one of my cars that were rollered in Tremclad, this was years ago too, and when I sanded the tremclad, it found it clogged the sandpaper up bad and found it very gummy...(rust paint never really hardens, and thats why it rolls out so smooth) maybe the paint has improved over the years but my experience is that if you ever decide to repaint it in a proper automotive paint then you'll have to strip the car down...

I have used the Duplicolor to spray too, that worked awesome as well...
Posted By: reflections7

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 07:24 PM

Your gonna put me out of buisness !!!

Here is an article about this same issue.
http://www.bodyshopbusiness.com/bb/bb70556.htm

A lot of body shops have went to a roll on primer. No masking, no moving it to a booth to keep overspray off other cars ect. You have to use roll on primer not 2k spray on. They sell the rollers white foam ones and pans at the PPG store. If you try 2k it will solvent pop and be to rough. You end up sanding it all back off. The other work well. I think Ill try this on an old fender just to see.
BTW if someone wants to spray base clear cheap try Matrix brand. the clear is like 50 with hardner.
Posted By: DAISYDUSTER

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 07:29 PM

I'm not trying to steal this thread but have you ever used the Car Skin product for polishing enamel. I'm from NC and haven't been able to find the product for over 10 years, if was the best and I hope it is still being made. We have been using Rustoleum paint for years and I can say it will last 6 years without any maintenance and if I could find some Car Skin to polish the old paint I would bet it would shine like new. All the old cars were painted with enamel years ago except for those that could afford laquer. I would rather use enamel over any of the plastic based products being sold today but then I'm old and like the look of enamel's warmth moreso that the clearcoat plastic glitter stuff.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 07:57 PM

Quote:

I'm a seasoned veteran of these roller jobs before using Tremclad and the technique just like he said. Always came out great!!! Especially when you live in an apt complex and can't make too much of a stink in the building. It do work good!

One note though where I have to disagree... I went to repaint one of my cars that were rollered in Tremclad, this was years ago too, and when I sanded the tremclad, it found it clogged the sandpaper up bad and found it very gummy...(rust paint never really hardens, and thats why it rolls out so smooth) maybe the paint has improved over the years but my experience is that if you ever decide to repaint it in a proper automotive paint then you'll have to strip the car down...

I have used the Duplicolor to spray too, that worked awesome as well...




did you use mineral spririts to thin down the paint? i think that is the key to get the paint to "harden" when i first tried this paint 12 years ago i did notice that it never really got hard, but i can say that all the other jobs i did starting with my 74 orange beetle i used mineral spirits to thin the paint, that seemed to be the trick, weather it was over-night or a year later the paint reached the right "hardness" the mineral spirits seemed to "flash" the paint, much like a reducer would on a acrylic enamel. i have painted a car over with the rust paint and had macco to a cheepy paint job that was a single stage, they had no issues to sand the paint, but i do know what you're describing, that happened to me when i did'nt use mineral spirits as a reducer. letterally overnight it is completely dry and i wetsand the next day.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 08:02 PM

Quote:

I'm not trying to steal this thread but have you ever used the Car Skin product for polishing enamel. I'm from NC and haven't been able to find the product for over 10 years, if was the best and I hope it is still being made. We have been using Rustoleum paint for years and I can say it will last 6 years without any maintenance and if I could find some Car Skin to polish the old paint I would bet it would shine like new. All the old cars were painted with enamel years ago except for those that could afford laquer. I would rather use enamel over any of the plastic based products being sold today but then I'm old and like the look of enamel's warmth moreso that the clearcoat plastic glitter stuff.




i have a shelf full of polishing compounds, mothers, mequires, ect....know what works the best? the cheapest one!!! turtle wax polishing compound in the white paste, $3, polish ANY enamel with a electric random orbit polisher and you'll be impressed......... and just a tip if you try it keep the buffing bonnet WET, have a spray bottle full of water and spray it on the bonnet each time u load up the polish paste, be very generous with both.
Posted By: Anonymous

Any way to do clear coat? - 01/27/06 08:04 PM

I looked at the Rustoleum site, and they had a clear product as well. Rustoleum 7701 is the clear stuff.

Just curious.

Thanks. Great knowledge here.

Greg
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: Any way to do clear coat? - 01/27/06 08:12 PM

Quote:

I looked at the Rustoleum site, and they had a clear product as well. Rustoleum 7701 is the clear stuff.

Just curious.

Thanks. Great knowledge here.

Greg




i saw that stuff too, i even bought it, but after buffing and testing a peice with and with out, i noticed no real huge difference, plus with no clear if i get even a deep scratch i can touch it up, wetsand, polish and it's gone, with clear it would be alot harder.
Posted By: MNobody

Re: Any way to do clear coat? - 01/27/06 09:17 PM

i just tried it on 1/2 of a hood and i must not have it thinned enough because it's not laying down well and has little bubbles in it. do you have any kind of a paint/mineral spirits ratio to start with?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: Any way to do clear coat? - 01/27/06 09:31 PM

He mentioned 20% as a place to start, so 4 parts paint 1 part thinner.

Was it near the consistency of water when you tried?
Posted By: MNobody

Re: Any way to do clear coat? - 01/27/06 09:34 PM

nope i must be too thick.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: Any way to do clear coat? - 01/27/06 09:37 PM

Quote:

i just tried it on 1/2 of a hood and i must not have it thinned enough because it's not laying down well and has little bubbles in it. do you have any kind of a paint/mineral spirits ratio to start with?




to answer your question, no lol, anyways, i'm wondering if you had the paint shaken? as a rule of thumb you NEVER shake enamel unless you want bubbles in the paint for a week, allways stir the paint. seccondly, all i can recomend is to thin it down with the mineral spirits until it is just a bit thicker than water, so it runs off a brush or whatever just a bit thicker than water, you could allways go a bit thicker, test it out and thin it until you get the right thickness. as for the bubbles, you could also make sure you really stired the paint and mixed it well, if u see bubbles in the paint in you pan then mix more until there is no bubbles, if there's still bubbles in the paint when u mixed it really well then get some paper towel and "skim" the surface to get rid of the bubbles. if you get bubbles when your painting your pushing down on the roller too hard, lighten it up a bit, let the paint sit for 1 minute after you've spread it out nice, then just run the roller over the area VERY gently using only the weight of the roller, then turn around, have a smoke after you've done the pannel, and when your done your smoke, turn around and you'll see it has "self leveled" before your eyes. if your doing a vertical section just apply a tiny amount of pressure as if it were the weight alone of the roller. it's really tricky to do, i could lay it down perfectly level but i have done it alot, you have to "read" the paint, listen carefully, it will tell you what to to . hope this helps.
Posted By: Old_Moparz

Re: Any way to do clear coat? - 01/27/06 09:43 PM

Hey 69chargeryeehaa,

Glad you took the time to post all of this, it's a lot of work. I copied & pasted it to my computer because I seriously doubt anyone will take this serious enough to archive. I just witnessed more people than ever on this site, jumping into a stale project with some true real inspiration than ever before. The only time that seems to happen otherwise, is when someone makes a comment on a BJ auction with a "rebody" & then there's 12 pages of it. There's always going to be arguments like the one's posted, that's because this is Moparts.com & arguments are a way of life here.

Thanks for posting, Bob

Saran wrap, huh?


.
Posted By: MNobody

Re: Any way to do clear coat? - 01/27/06 10:16 PM

well of course i shook the paint lol, i only do things to make my job tougher......thanks for all the info i didn't think i was going to get it perfect the first try anyway but i gotta get out of the garage i'm gettin a heck of a buzzzzz.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 10:30 PM

I was gonna say, if you are going to roll on a metallic, you better have awful fast arms to get the flakes dispersed so they don't look like a pattern.........hey, a pattern..checkerboard metallics anyone?
Posted By: 73cudaproject

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 10:38 PM

I called a paint supply store and asked about roll-on primer. I was told any epoxy primer, 2K primer, etc. can be rolled on. He did not mention what reducer to use. Any advice? My current application is just on a beater type truck but I want fairly good results. The metal is currently bare and I want to prime before I use body filler. The link provided earlier indicates the primer needs to be a direct to metal type.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 10:41 PM

According to that article, make sure its a DTM product. I don't think even all epoxies are spec'd for direct to metal. There are additives that make it DTM. Double check before you jump in.
Posted By: 73cudaproject

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 11:00 PM

I will double check to make sure the primer I get is DTM. It is suppose to rain this weekend so I will not be able to roll the truck outside and spray. My shop is full of other project cars so I want to avoid overspray and the difficulties of making a temporary spray booth just for the first coat of primer. I am excited about the roll-on method! I might just use the Rustoleum primer and save some money.
Posted By: 69superbee383

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 11:15 PM

I did an old Duster fender last night using this method and also using a spray bomb of rustoleum. I just wet sanded them and applied the next coat and can tell that it does have the potential to do a decent job. To be honest both the roller applied and sprayed on parts of the panel look decent. I did not do a lot of surface prep I really just wanted to test the concept out. One key seems to be the roller itself. The high density foam one that is white with the rounded edges. I was having trouble getting it applied to the contours so I tried doing the spray and then immediatly applying around it with the roller and I cant tell where one ends and the other begins.

On a side note a few years ago I painted a Harley tank and fenders with Rustoleum spray and then used the clear coat and the thing looked awesome.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/27/06 11:52 PM

I guess getting a specific color mixed could be a PITA though, seeing as you'd pretty much have to bring in a paint chip for them scan in the computer.
Posted By: Blackwidow69

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/28/06 12:20 AM

I am a little surprised that so many of you guys have not read about this before here on Moparts. Primerduster has been talking about it for at least a few years. And I rolled on rustoleum last fall and posted the results. But I have to say the info here is much more detailed and I guess we were only talking about using the flat black paint to make our cars look like primered rides.
I got to say 69charger is doing a great job passing the info and staying out of any arguments so kudos for that. I will just say keep trying on getting the thinner to paint mixture down. It really does help to get it quite thin but like 69charger I cannot give you a specific ratio. My trunk lid probably has like 10 coats of paint on it from experimentation and I did just use the grey spray primer in the areas that I took down to metal for smoothing out purposes. My car does look mean and at the Mopar show here in Maryland last fall everyone did think it was sprayed on epoxy primer. Their faces were priceless when I told them it was rolled. Anyway nothing really new to add since 69charger has done a good job so just count me in as a satisfied $50 paint job guy.
Todd
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/28/06 12:25 AM

I don't think it really matters exactly how much thinner is used, but it does matter how thin the end product comes out. If it's warmer outside, obviously the warm paint will be not so thick and won't require as much thinner to achieve the proper thickness. It's really based on ambient temperature so you can't just lay down a specific mix.
Posted By: reflections7

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/28/06 12:45 AM

Quote:

I called a paint supply store and asked about roll-on primer. I was told any epoxy primer, 2K primer, etc. can be rolled on. He did not mention what reducer to use. Any advice? My current application is just on a beater type truck but I want fairly good results. The metal is currently bare and I want to prime before I use body filler. The link provided earlier indicates the primer needs to be a direct to metal type.


I didnt get good results unless I used primer made to roll.
Posted By: MNobody

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/28/06 05:27 PM

guess i'll have to hire YEEHAA to come to michigan and paint mine i don't have the knack for it....
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/28/06 07:30 PM

Well I've got an old fender I'm going to try this on. I know I'm suposed to wet sand after the second coat, but how much time is needed between coats?

Mike
Posted By: BobR

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/28/06 07:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I called a paint supply store and asked about roll-on primer. I was told any epoxy primer, 2K primer, etc. can be rolled on. He did not mention what reducer to use. Any advice? My current application is just on a beater type truck but I want fairly good results. The metal is currently bare and I want to prime before I use body filler. The link provided earlier indicates the primer needs to be a direct to metal type.


I didnt get good results unless I used primer made to roll.




I tried rolling DP90. Doesn't work-dries too fast. -Bob
Posted By: MNobody

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/28/06 07:59 PM

make sure you wet sand after each coat and mine dried overnight.
Posted By: 69superbee383

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/29/06 01:03 AM

Well i did two coats Firday night and then this afternoon wet sanded with 400 and after that applied another coat. Things looked good at first but the paint dried in a finish similar to the crinkle finish on an air cleaner...me thinks me did something wrong. It did seem to have potential though and I am going to keep playing with it.
Posted By: MNobody

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/29/06 04:52 AM

yeah i got one section of the hood i'm doing that wrinkled too i think the hood was too cold when i applied the paint. and hey i tried my palm sander... keep it good and wet it works great.
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/29/06 04:54 AM

Hey what was your guy's mixing ratio?

Mike
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/29/06 08:44 PM

there is no real set mixing ratio, it's all based on the temperature, how old the paint is, how many times you opened the can, and which way the wind is blowing!!! you just have to have a "feel" for it. i've painted in both extreems of temperature, from about -10 deg celcus to +30 deg celcus and never had a problem with the paint having any bad habbits, but the mixing ratio was higher the colder it was.
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/30/06 04:34 AM

Posted By: 440trk

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/30/06 04:50 AM



This thread ROCKS!

I need to get my plow truck painted within the next year or so, and this sounds like JUST what I'm looking for!!!
Thanks!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/30/06 04:56 AM

Anyone else experiment with this over the weekend? I've put on 2 coats on a test area of an old door, wetsanding is next. Hard to tell what the finished product will look like at this point, and I'm getting some dog hair and other misc. junk on my test area, I need to take care of that..

Posted By: phoenix70charger

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/30/06 06:37 AM

I like this idea!! Gotta move to a new base before I can try it though
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/30/06 08:57 AM

so how do you apply the paint in hard to reach areas? such as drip rails on the roof edge--the vent slots in front of the widshield, etc.. ?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/30/06 03:02 PM

Quote:

so how do you apply the paint in hard to reach areas? such as drip rails on the roof edge--the vent slots in front of the widshield, etc.. ?




for the vent slots for example i would use the foam brush and run it in between the slots, then use the roller over it, when done u can't even tell it was not sprayed. and same thing for the drip rail, use the foam brush first, then use the rounded end of the roller pushing it into the drip rail and then turning it and using the straight cut end to perfect it.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/30/06 05:05 PM

this morning I wet sanded the first 2 coats with 600 grit. It's smooth now but it doesn't yet have full color covering the area. Tonight I'll do 2 more coats then wetsand tomorrow morning with 800.

We'll know how it turns out in a couple of days, but so far about 10-15% mineral spirits is what has worked for me. It goes on very easily, and doesn't run. Wetsanding was pretty easy too.
Posted By: 6T6Cuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/30/06 05:30 PM

So you guys are using mineral sprits?

When I sprayed rustolem last summer, I thought it said to thin it with asatone (sp?)...

Is it different if you roll it vs. spraying? Or is mineral sprits better for this process?

Or am I just

RAR II
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/30/06 06:01 PM

Quote:

So you guys are using mineral sprits?

When I sprayed rustolem last summer, I thought it said to thin it with asatone (sp?)...

Is it different if you roll it vs. spraying? Or is mineral sprits better for this process?

Or am I just

RAR II




i've tried varsol, laquer thinner, but not acetone, i found mineral spirits work the best, i would think that acetone would "flash" the paint too quickly. mineral spirits seems to be the best and has alot of other uses like cleaning carbs, taking off overspray ect....
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/30/06 07:09 PM

Quote:


i've tried varsol, laquer thinner, but not acetone, i found mineral spirits work the best, i would think that acetone would "flash" the paint too quickly. mineral spirits seems to be the best and has alot of other uses like cleaning carbs, taking off overspray ect....




Does it work OK to mix up a batch of this mineral spirits and paint and then store it in a jar? So far I've been mixing each time to get the mixture right but I think I'll stick with 10-15% and put it in a jar if that would work, so I can have more consistent batches.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/30/06 07:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:


i've tried varsol, laquer thinner, but not acetone, i found mineral spirits work the best, i would think that acetone would "flash" the paint too quickly. mineral spirits seems to be the best and has alot of other uses like cleaning carbs, taking off overspray ect....




Does it work OK to mix up a batch of this mineral spirits and paint and then store it in a jar? So far I've been mixing each time to get the mixture right but I think I'll stick with 10-15% and put it in a jar if that would work, so I can have more consistent batches.




yes, thats fine, but u may have to add a bit more thinner like 2% when u use it next.
Posted By: mopork

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/30/06 11:02 PM

YEEHAA thanks for all the good info
Posted By: petty43

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/30/06 11:07 PM

I was told to do this on my 46 ford frame by an "old timer". I already have a gallon of black. I think I'll try it on my 54 chevrolet truck fenders. It's a truck you know so I don't care how that much how it turns out.

Question?

Can you go right over the paint after some sanding and prep or do you need to go to metal and "bondo"?

Attached picture 2353714-TrucksMarch05036.jpg
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/31/06 01:03 AM

Quote:

I was told to do this on my 46 ford frame by an "old timer". I already have a gallon of black. I think I'll try it on my 54 chevrolet truck fenders. It's a truck you know so I don't care how that much how it turns out.

Question?

Can you go right over the paint after some sanding and prep or do you need to go to metal and "bondo"?




you can go right over anything, just make sure u scuff the old paint a bit.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/31/06 02:08 AM

Here is an Excel spreadsheet to calculate how much spirits to add for whatever % you want to end up with.

Hopefully we can learn what works best..

Attached File
2354309-paintmixing.xls  (2857 downloads)
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/31/06 02:38 AM

Here it is after wetsanding coat #2 with 600.



Attached picture 2354407-IMG_0609(Small).JPG
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/31/06 02:38 AM

And here is the freshly applied 3rd coat. It's starting to look interesting!



Attached picture 2354411-IMG_0610(Small).JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/31/06 05:33 AM

I know that you mentioned having the paint tinted at the store, but what about mixing stock colors? For example, mixing some "Sunburst Yellow" with "Grass Green." (see http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=18&SBL=1) Does this paint mix well, or do you think the different colors will stay separated in the mix?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/31/06 02:53 PM

i see no reason why it would'nt mix well
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/31/06 03:10 PM

exit1965 - nice pics, as you can see it only gets better. i would have tested on a larger pannel, it's hard to just do a small area and take it thru the whole process, wait till you've got 6 coats on it and after the final wetsand and polish, you'll be very happy.
Posted By: Dart360sav

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/31/06 05:08 PM

so do you think that home depot could mix me up some sublime green?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/31/06 05:13 PM

Thanks 69charger.

I wish I would have used a bigger test space also. to the left of the test area is what I used for practicing welding trim holes shut, so it's got lots of grinding needed if I want to use that area, but I just might to do more testing.

One thing I'd like to know is how you clean your roller after use? I have been washing it out with mineral spirits and water then using a paper towel to dry it, but I think some of the fibers from the paper towel are sticking to the roller and coming off in the paint! I'm not sure the best way to clean it off.

Oh well at least I'm figuring this out now without doing an actual car.

Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/31/06 05:39 PM

Quote:

Thanks 69charger.

I wish I would have used a bigger test space also. to the left of the test area is what I used for practicing welding trim holes shut, so it's got lots of grinding needed if I want to use that area, but I just might to do more testing.

One thing I'd like to know is how you clean your roller after use? I have been washing it out with mineral spirits and water then using a paper towel to dry it, but I think some of the fibers from the paper towel are sticking to the roller and coming off in the paint! I'm not sure the best way to clean it off.

Oh well at least I'm figuring this out now without doing an actual car.






well if i'm using the roller again that day i put it in a plastic bag, take all the air out and load up the roller before i put it in the plastic bag, otherwise i just throw it out and use a new one if i'm painting the next day, they are only about $5 for 5 of them. oh and DON'T use water!!!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 01/31/06 06:09 PM

Great tips thanks!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/03/06 02:43 AM

Phew this thread got cold fast! I should probably have been done with all steps by now but life got in the way the last 2 days, so I just now have put the 4th coat on and now the color is completely covering what was under it. It's looking much more orange peely than previous coats but I'm not too worried since the next step is wetsanding, then 2 more coats, wetsanding and then polishing.

Hopefully by Sunday I'll have a final result, then I'll put the door outside and see how well it holds up..



Attached picture 2363379-IMG_0625(Small).JPG
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/03/06 02:51 AM

ya i guess all of a sudden it was read by just about everyone!!! like a new girlfriend the excitment has gone.....
regarding your door expirement, there is something your doing wrong, i get virtually NO orange peal. maybe too thick? i dunno, the wetsanding just makes it perfect, i wetsand the whole car in 2 hours, so that should give you a good indication of how much orange peel there really is.
Posted By: MNobody

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/03/06 03:28 AM

i'm getting too much orange peel too i've tried it thinner, thicker, warmer, colder, can't seem to get it right
Posted By: The Shadow

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/03/06 03:33 AM

Wicked thread.
Very interesting. I think your onto something.

I prefer the #10 broom finish. That's the only way I can get it to look ,anytime I paint something.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/03/06 03:59 AM

Quote:

i'm getting too much orange peel too i've tried it thinner, thicker, warmer, colder, can't seem to get it right




are you using rustoleum enamel?

I think my orange peel batch wasn't thin enough, but hopefully it will come out with the wetsanding.
Posted By: ONEBADBIRD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/03/06 04:06 AM

What kind of Rustoleum paint did you guys use? I think this idea is great and I'm going to try it. The thing is I went out to buy the paint and almost bought the waterbased Rustoleum (Painters Touch) which is not oil based, but says you can use it on metal?? what caught my eye was that it said thin with water so I stayed away from that and got the other label that says (stops rust)and thins with mineral spirits. Just a thought? It almost screwed me up!!!! Jay.
Posted By: mopowertim

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/03/06 04:19 AM

We did a old catering van with rustoleum white a while back after seeing the guys on Monster Garage do it to an old Milk Truck- we used pretty much the mix ratio talked about here, scuffed it with Scotch Brite and rolled it on!! Every bit as good as a Maaco cheapie job, for about 1/8th the price!! !! The 66 Valiant wagon is getting ready to get a few coats of Bright Red the same way real soon!!
Posted By: MNobody

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/03/06 04:29 AM

i'm using rustoleum oil based
Posted By: Scatpak

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/03/06 04:39 AM

This is a great post, keep the results coming. Can't wait to see the finished product.
Posted By: ONEBADBIRD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/03/06 04:49 AM

Oh O.K. RCRC I almost did not read the fine print and bought the wrong paint. I'm going to give this a try as soon as possible soon as I prep some of the body. I'm going to go over the old paint on most of my car just rough it up a bit. I'm assuming I can just use some steelwool or scotchbrite pads? Another question is if I decide to do the black hoodstripes in gloss as well as the rest of the car can you wetsand with two colors on the hood or would that be a problem?
Thanks for any responces: Jay
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/03/06 02:42 PM

Quote:

We did a old catering van with rustoleum white a while back after seeing the guys on Monster Garage do it to an old Milk Truck- we used pretty much the mix ratio talked about here, scuffed it with Scotch Brite and rolled it on!! Every bit as good as a Maaco cheapie job, for about 1/8th the price!! !! The 66 Valiant wagon is getting ready to get a few coats of Bright Red the same way real soon!!




How did you apply it? Was it the same as described here (2 coats, wetsand, 2 coats, wetsand, 2 more coats, wetsand then polish)?

Got any pics?
Posted By: 69hemibeep

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/03/06 03:17 PM

About three years ago I shot my jeep with white Rustoleum.Just mixed it with mineral spirits to the same thickness as an enamel, then set my compressor to 70 and shot.Looks good !
Posted By: MNobody

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/03/06 10:12 PM

i finaly got a good coat of paint on one side of the hood i'm painting, thin that paint out boys just like water then go over it after about 5 min with the roller again. i'm buying a spray gun because if the paint is that thin it would probably be a pain to do the sides of a car and if you get one coat with orange peel and don't sand it back smooth you just keep getting the peel look.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/03/06 11:13 PM

Quote:

i finaly got a good coat of paint on one side of the hood i'm painting, thin that paint out boys just like water then go over it after about 5 min with the roller again. i'm buying a spray gun because if the paint is that thin it would probably be a pain to do the sides of a car and if you get one coat with orange peel and don't sand it back smooth you just keep getting the peel look.




If you're going to spray, why not jump up to a cheap single stage. I figured the main advantage to this was you could apply it with a roller, no overspray, etc.
Posted By: MNobody

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/03/06 11:38 PM

guess it depends on the price of the materials for the single stage paint and how durable the rustoleum is, as soon as this coat dries i'm going to see how chip and scratch resistant it is.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/04/06 03:33 PM

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/04/06 04:42 PM

I have my 5th coat done and it looks OK, not as much orange peel as after I first painted it but still too much for my eye, so I went at it with 600 grit and water again.

Now it's smoother, but took a lot of paint off so you can see through it, so it'll be 2 more coats later today, wetsand, then 2 more final coats.

Posted By: ONEBADBIRD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/04/06 05:53 PM

Its very interesting to see what results you guys are getting keep the updates coming.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 06:06 AM

Man do I love this thread. I am new to this forum but found out about it through hybridz.org a wonderful site dedicated to customizing and hot rodding Datsun Z cars as well as other misc topics. Anyhow I am curious how this could be used with satin black paint. Could you wetsand between the coats until you got to the last one and the last one would self level enough for a good satin finish. Obviously you can't wetsand a satin paint and then buff?
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 06:20 AM

Quote:

I have my 5th coat done and it looks OK, not as much orange peel as after I first painted it but still too much for my eye, so I went at it with 600 grit and water again.







600 Grit is way to rough on a top coat. You should be using at least 1000 between coats. Final with 2000.

I am not sure if you are using straight water or not, but I always use just a little dawn in my bucket and spray bottle when wet sanding. Of course I have never used this type of paint. I will give it a try one of these days.

-Dave
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 02:25 PM

Quote:


600 Grit is way to rough on a top coat. You should be using at least 1000 between coats. Final with 2000.

I am not sure if you are using straight water or not, but I always use just a little dawn in my bucket and spray bottle when wet sanding. Of course I have never used this type of paint. I will give it a try one of these days.

-Dave




I used the 600 to get (orange peel) material off faster than 1000 or 1500, this is the grit 69charger says to use after the 1st and second coat. I knew it was a rough grit but I didn't mind stepping back a few steps to get the orange peel out.

It worked fine, and I subsequently applied 2 more coats and wetsanded with 1000, and I just applied the 6th/final coat. Tonight I'll wetsand it with 1500 then polish and post pics.

After sanding with 1000, I put some mineral spirits on a rag and wiped the area. If it looks like that after polishing I'll be very happy.

re the soap in the water, does that help the paper glide easier?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 02:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:


600 Grit is way to rough on a top coat. You should be using at least 1000 between coats. Final with 2000.

I am not sure if you are using straight water or not, but I always use just a little dawn in my bucket and spray bottle when wet sanding. Of course I have never used this type of paint. I will give it a try one of these days.

-Dave




I used the 600 to get (orange peel) material off faster than 1000 or 1500, this is the grit 69charger says to use after the 1st and second coat. I knew it was a rough grit but I didn't mind stepping back a few steps to get the orange peel out.

It worked fine, and I subsequently applied 2 more coats and wetsanded with 1000, and I just applied the 6th/final coat. Tonight I'll wetsand it with 1500 then polish and post pics.

After sanding with 1000, I put some mineral spirits on a rag and wiped the area. If it looks like that after polishing I'll be very happy.

re the soap in the water, does that help the paper glide easier?




i haven't tried soap and water, i see no real advantage, i just use straight water and keep the area really wet, using a spray bottle and spray it down alot, after wetsanding for a bit i have a bucket of water and a shammy i whipe down the surface with while it's still wet, that way it's much eaiser to clean before it dries. and as for the mineral spirits on a wet rag and just whiping it down, yes, that's what it looks like polished, even better, just gives you an idea of what it will look like when finished, that's about the first time you really see the results.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 02:49 PM

The soap actualy lubricates the paper and it will sand smoother. As far as finish goes I dont think it will make a difference. I have heard it makes the paper last longer though? In any case the main thing is to keep your area saturated. On a side note. I cannot find on the net anywhere where tremclad makes rustoleum and that it is in fact the same product. I was thinking about using valspar tractor and implement enamel from TSC. Any advice or info on that would be great. I was worried about it though because it takes a hardner?
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 02:57 PM

Quote:

The I cannot find on the net anywhere where tremclad makes rustoleum and that it is in fact the same product.




Try here...
http://www.tdwi.org/Publications/WhatWorks/display.aspx?ID=7708

" Used by both professionals and “do-it-yourselfers,” Rust-Oleum’s brands—including Rust-Oleum®, Mono®, Tremclad®, and Varathane®—are widely distributed across Canada through independent hardware stores and large “big-box” retailers such as Wal-Mart, Canadian Tire, Rona, and Home Depot."
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 02:59 PM

just says they are under the same brand name not necessarily the same product?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 03:04 PM

Quote:

The soap actualy lubricates the paper and it will sand smoother. As far as finish goes I dont think it will make a difference. I have heard it makes the paper last longer though? In any case the main thing is to keep your area saturated. On a side note. I cannot find on the net anywhere where tremclad makes rustoleum and that it is in fact the same product. I was thinking about using valspar tractor and implement enamel from TSC. Any advice or info on that would be great. I was worried about it though because it takes a hardner?




i see your logic in the soap in the water and think it would help when approaching the 1000+ grit mark, i'll give that a shot next time. i would just worry about any residue left behind and how that efects the next coats of paint? i find the paper lasts really long to the point where it's worn from just using it, but i rinse the paper often and clean the surface alot. from what i've read the rust-oleim paint is the exact same thing as the tremclad sold in canada, it's just a brand labeled for canada. if it's rust paint, it's rust paint. anything that requires a hardner i would spray on to get the paint to "flash" i would think you need to spray it. i would never try to roller any acrylic enamel single stage paint, it would be impossible, if you have ever sprayed on that stuff like i have i would think it would not work just from my experience with the paint. the great thing about the tremclad is the way the paint acts and how easy it is to work with, the durability of the paint, and the fact that it's so inert, and not prone to all that fun stuff like fish eyes, and the fact that it is easy to apply and not critical about re-coat times ect.....like i've said before, i have sprayed several cars with a single stage acrylic enamel in my garage, i just can't stand the mess, smell, work, and overspray. the roller method for me was much eaiser, you can work at a leisurly pace, not rushing to mix a batch of color and spray it on 10 mins after the primer sealer like you have to using single stage auto paint. i find that the tremclad/rustoliem paint is VERY durable, the front fenders on my charger are fiberglass, and i have no issues even when i lean over them to do any motor work and accidently "pop" them in and out. if that were single stage i think the paint would crack unless your use the proper "flex" agents.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 03:09 PM

http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=18&SBL=1 looks like this must be the stuff.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 03:12 PM

Quote:

http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=18&SBL=1 looks like this must be the stuff.




that's the stuff, looks like you americans even get a few more color choices too.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 03:39 PM

looks like they have a whole line of industrial enamels but require priming http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=219&SBL=2&ddic=6
Could these or others from this site be usable?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 03:46 PM

Quote:

looks like they have a whole line of industrial enamels but require priming http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=219&SBL=2&ddic=6
Could these or others from this site be usable?




i dont' know, i would'nt want to expirement, espically that i've found the cheapest simple to use paint....why bother?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 04:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=18&SBL=1 looks like this must be the stuff.




that's the stuff, looks like you americans even get a few more color choices too.





I wish I could find a place around here that has all those colors! Home depot has about 5-6 colors from what I remember, and walmart about 4 or 5. I'm using the Almond color 7770.

I haven't tried Lowes but I wont hold my breath that they'll have any of the cooler colors. I'd like to do some experimenting with the carnival red..
Posted By: MNobody

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 04:30 PM

hey they should be able to mix any color you want with that product.
Posted By: ONEBADBIRD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 05:08 PM

Hey you guys that plan on trying this method like the rest of us and can't find a good selection. If you live in the Michigan area look for a Aco Hardware store. They didn't have all the colors but had a decent selection of Rustoleum colors that's where I picked up "Gloss Sunrise Red" and Rustoleum Hammered Finish in silver which I might try on my bare metal issues then go over with the red. It says right on the Rustoleum "Hammered Finish" can, "can apply directly over rust" so I might experiment with that. Hey can any of you guys tell me if I were to try the gloss black hood stripe thing can you wetsand two different colors side by side without a clear coat over top or could it be disasterous. Just a thought? Thanks for any replies on this Question: Jay (This thread is AWESOME)
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 05:13 PM

Quote:

Hey you guys that plan on trying this method like the rest of us and can't find a good selection. If you live in the Michigan area look for a Aco Hardware store. They didn't have all the colors but had a decent selection of Rustoleum colors that's where I picked up "Gloss Sunrise Red" and Rustoleum Hammered Finish in silver which I might try on my bare metal issues then go over with the red. It says right on the Rustoleum "Hammered Finish" can, "can apply directly over rust" so I might experiment with that. Hey can any of you guys tell me if I were to try the gloss black hood stripe thing can you wetsand two different colors side by side without a clear coat over top or could it be disasterous. Just a thought? Thanks for any replies on this Question: Jay (This thread is AWESOME)




don't use the hammerd finish unless you want a "hammerd" finish, which is really textured. and yes u can wetsand to different colors side by side like a stripe once dry with no issues.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 05:15 PM

The sop in the water also prevents the paper from clogging up as fast and causing more scratches.
Posted By: moper

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/06/06 05:19 PM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/06/06 05:23 PM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 05:25 PM

Quote:

The sop in the water also prevents the paper from clogging up as fast and causing more scratches.




i agree, i've heard about it, but honestly never had any problems with just plain water, but if i ever have the problem of the paper getting plugged up i'll give that a shot
Posted By: moper

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/06/06 05:31 PM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: ONEBADBIRD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 06:34 PM

Thanks 69chargeryeehaa for the answer to my stripe question I'll give it a shot I mean roll!!!
Except for the few of us on here willing to try this paint job I think its interesting how old school so many people are when you just say the word "roller" they automatically turn there nose up. I personally think why spend say thousands of hard earned pennies
on a paint job that will give you nothing but ulcers from the minute you get it in the driveway and notice a scratch with your magnifying glass.
That just means thousands of dollars more I can put into getting my muscle machine on the road. I mean if your paint job cost 50 bucks or 15,000 thousand bucks your ALWAYS going to be dealing with RUST/dings/scraches etc. so why not make it the least costly and easy to fix. Just pull it into your own garage and a week later your ready to roll and rip on it and still have money for gas and not have your car in a shop for another 6 months for example. So I am going to try this paint job with a ROLLER ( oh that sounds scary!! Ha Ha!!!!) and still have a hot looking ride that turns heads when coming down the street
Oh ya and 69chargeryeehaa beautiful looking ride man thanks for the info. Jay.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 07:02 PM

Quote:

Thanks 69chargeryeehaa for the answer to my stripe question I'll give it a shot I mean roll!!!
Except for the few of us on here willing to try this paint job I think its interesting how old school so many people are when you just say the word "roller" they automatically turn there nose up. I personally think why spend say thousands of hard earned pennies
on a paint job that will give you nothing but ulcers from the minute you get it in the driveway and notice a scratch with your magnifying glass.
That just means thousands of dollars more I can put into getting my muscle machine on the road. I mean if your paint job cost 50 bucks or 15,000 thousand bucks your ALWAYS going to be dealing with RUST/dings/scraches etc. so why not make it the least costly and easy to fix. Just pull it into your own garage and a week later your ready to roll and rip on it and still have money for gas and not have your car in a shop for another 6 months for example. So I am going to try this paint job with a ROLLER ( oh that sounds scary!! Ha Ha!!!!) and still have a hot looking ride that turns heads when coming down the street
Oh ya and 69chargeryeehaa beautiful looking ride man thanks for the info. Jay.




amen, and thankyou, i could'nt have said it better myself. you can allways have the car painted professionally later when you fall into a poop load of money, until then i'll drive my charger like i stole it, sideways on dirt roads like it was ment to be driven, some people just don't get it. They think i'm saying that they should take there 1 of 1 hemi cuda vert concept car with 0.000003mi on the od, with a build sheet they found under the back seat engraved in platinum, and do a roller paint job on it!!!!!
Posted By: moper

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 07:46 PM

Sorry, I didnt mean to cause such a ruckess. I'd love for you to see my driveway. It's 1/2 mile of rutted, muddy, sandy and rocky fill. (the material depends on where you are on it...) I've gone as fast as 45mph on it, and there's members here who can verify that the last thing I worry about is looks. I'm honored you would group me with the checkbook car guys, but nobody does any work for me, that I can do myself. I still cant do glass windshields or back glass. But I do decent body work, and paint, and enignes, transmission,rears, suspension setups, cages, connectors, electrical..you name it. because I'm cheap, and not very trusting. I've put cars thru cornfields with 7 passengers, trucks on their doors, and gotten more than a few airborne. (ask pnypwr about the cracks he's fixed in my high school car that he restored) So, relax, go roll away. I dont care how you get results. If your car is registered and driven more than 20' in 2 years, you're lightyears ahead of any car I own. I would however, use spray bombs berfore I roll. Just because I find them easier to control, and a case or two of rustoleum will do several coats, and runs about $70. (not that I've ever done THAT tho )
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 08:02 PM

Quote:

Sorry, I didnt mean to cause such a ruckess. I'd love for you to see my driveway. It's 1/2 mile of rutted, muddy, sandy and rocky fill. (the material depends on where you are on it...) I've gone as fast as 45mph on it, and there's members here who can verify that the last thing I worry about is looks. I'm honored you would group me with the checkbook car guys, but nobody does any work for me, that I can do myself. I still cant do glass windshields or back glass. But I do decent body work, and paint, and enignes, transmission,rears, suspension setups, cages, connectors, electrical..you name it. because I'm cheap, and not very trusting. I've put cars thru cornfields with 7 passengers, trucks on their doors, and gotten more than a few airborne. (ask pnypwr about the cracks he's fixed in my high school car that he restored) So, relax, go roll away. I dont care how you get results. If your car is registered and driven more than 20' in 2 years, you're lightyears ahead of any car I own. I would however, use spray bombs berfore I roll. Just because I find them easier to control, and a case or two of rustoleum will do several coats, and runs about $70. (not that I've ever done THAT tho )




aplolgy accepted. i'm not stop being a girl lol. rollering is much cleaner, no taping, cheaper, faster. if i were to use spray cans i'd just spray it on with a compressor. spray cans suck, never work good, and after a few mins spit out blobs on the surface. the roller method works amazing for me, and is super easy to do. i'm a do it all myself guy too, u name it i do it, the only thing i get done for me is tires, and wheel balancing, otherwise i do it all, i put in a new windshield, headliner, paint, carpet, all the mechanics i do my self on all my cars. i like the roller method because painting anything weather spraying or rollering comes naturally to me and i'm good at it. if you can't rub your belly in a circular motion and pat your head at the same time then painting is not for you. the main reason i rollered the charger is because i don't have enough room in my garage to confortably get around the whole car with the doors open ect...and be able to spray. otherwise i would have sprayed it. the 1974 orange beetle i rollered was a small car, and was really easy to roller and wetsand to a mirror. the 1971 blue beetle i sprayed was such a pain, and my wife complained that the whole house stunk, and that was acrylic enamel, primer, primer sealer and midnight blue metalic, and cameout perfect. if i showed you that car you'd swear it was a $5000 paint job. i don't mind your house wraping comment if it was maybe followed by something like "by the way nice ride" something like that. i hate when people just come on here and on your thread. u on me and i on you. lol
Posted By: mopork

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 08:23 PM

YEHAA I sympathize with you, my garage is also small and i don't have enough room around the car to paint. I had the advantage of using my buddy mike's rotiserrie. We had to push the car to one side and spin it to paint it by standing only on one side of the car while spraying. We used a paint turbine and it worked great. Next time we will roller it
Posted By: reflections7

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 08:31 PM

When I painted my paint booth walls I got some PPG industrial enamel. Very cheap and it came with hardner. I wonder if you could roll that stuff on. I wish I had some left.
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 08:33 PM

For one thing, this thread nees way more pics...

Here's my '64 NewYorker, which I rolled with semi-gloss black paint and a rounded roller over a year ago.
I used a little brush first to paint the areas the roller can't come.
I've covered each section only 2 times, cause I used an old can of paint and I wasn't sure I could get a new can of the same stuff again these days. The paint I used however was regular housepaint. Nothing special.

The car is a little dusty though, but I'm happy as can be with the way it turned out.

Click an image for a larger version;
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 08:35 PM

Quote:

For one thing, this thread nees way more pics...






i have lots of pics:

http://photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/

several pages and albums there:)enjoy
Posted By: mopork

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 08:50 PM

Posted By: mopork

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 08:50 PM

Posted By: mopork

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 08:51 PM

Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 09:03 PM

very nice pics , i really like white. i'd imagine that if you used the white rust paint it would turn out amazing, white hides dents, scratches, dirt, imperfections ect.....very easy to maintain. the darker color you choose, the more attention you should put into prep.
Posted By: mopork

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 09:10 PM

I was just lucky that it was the original color
Posted By: moper

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 09:44 PM

69, a ton of people will read a post, and because they never respond, you think they are jumping in. Your post was the subject of a short discussion (more of a mention to me really) at the winter gathering this past Saturday in MA. I've been following along since it started, just didnt feel the need to "add" anything productive or otherwise until this morning...Next time I'll just keep lurking..I did say nice car too, I did look at the pics and stuff days ago. If you're by this way, I'll treat you to . Or we can play "Hazzard County" down my driveway...lol.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 09:59 PM

moper- relax, it's all in good fun, you did'nt say "nice car" until after u meenie, then i would have saved the for the next guy lol.
Posted By: MNobody

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 10:23 PM

hey i said nice car right off the bat and you still havn't come over to paint my car.....
Posted By: Blackwidow69

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 11:41 PM

Well since BigBlockMopar said we need more pictures here is how mine turned out. Someone also mentioned a while back about a satin finish. I used the Rustoleum flat black and sanded between coats as discussed here and I think I ended up with a satin finish. I used rubbing compound and fine steel wool on mine at the end. It has visible orange peel but is the look I was going for.

First photo is a before with 8 year old epoxy primer.
Todd

Attached picture 2374463-100_1349(Large).JPG
Posted By: Blackwidow69

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/06/06 11:43 PM

And here is the after with my cool rattle can hood strips.
Todd

Attached picture 2374469-100_1418(Large).JPG
Posted By: ONEBADBIRD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 12:08 AM

Your right 69charger its all good fun. After all we are all Chrysler Crazy. Its like driving down the road and spotting someone else's ride (Mopar of course)in a driveway or going the other way down the rode we all get rubber band necks and almost crunch into other cars around us just trying to catch a quick glance, cause we are nuts about these cars and I can't think of anything better to have an addiction to. We all may love the same cars but its funny when it comes to doing work to them the way we differ on opinion. Like until I read this post I never thought I could get away with rolling paint on my car. Now that I see you have perfected this way of doing it and saved some coin in the process I am glad to have read this thread. I'm game to give this a try soon as the car is ready for paint in a couple months. As for using the Rustoleum Hammered paint I'll stay away from that Thanks for the heads up: Jay
Posted By: ONEBADBIRD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 12:14 AM

Hey Blackwidow69 Hats off to you, sweet ride man looks intimidating as hell. Thats what I want to do the hood stripe thing also: Jay
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 12:25 AM

i have lots of addictions, but i also like all old cars, i think they are all cool. The 69 charger is my all time favorite, maybe cause i grew up watching dukes of hazzard, i don't know i'm not a doctor!!! but i really like the old VW beetles, they are a blast, i get lots and i mean lots of attention in the charger, but driving the bug around i get huge laughs when poeple are constantly punching eachother!!!! that never gets old, espically when the other person does'nt even know why they got a shot and then the puncher points to my car and they get it!!!! funny story, i was out crusing in the bug, and i pulled up at a light next to a Ferrari 360 Modena, school was just out and there was a bunch of kids on the corner, then they all pointed and yelled, WOW.... COOL LOOK AT THE BEETLE. i looked over at the Ferrari guy and he was like so wanting to get out of there. here i am in a $6000 car and kids are going crazy about it, there he was in his $300000 car and nobody knew he was even there. plus i like being able to pull my motor in 20 mins with a skateboard just to see if it's ok lol. for $4000 you could build a sick bug motor/tranny high 9sec 1/4mi car. that's my future plan, make a stock appearing vw bug sleeper.....
Posted By: 68Cbarge

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 02:17 AM

O.K. Everybody!!Listen up!! 69 Chargeryeehaa pics just do NOT do justice to the paint job!!! I personally seen this car this past weekend and it looks GREAT!You have to see it for yourself in PERSON!! I had to go see for myself!! The shine and smoothness of the paint is impressive.Even my Brother in law who's not into cars liked the paintjob!!Looks like a professional paintjob.Better than what they did on the Dukes show!!Overall the car is a nice cruiser that can be shown.Like most of our toys,his still needs a few things here and there only if they are pointed out.To the local cruise night crowd this Charger can steal the most attention!(69......you can wire me the bribe money by Western Union )
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 02:27 AM

Hey guys, this link was passed on to me from a friend of mine. I have a ’95 honda civic cx in navy blue that I need to repaint due to old age and the 402,000km that it has on the body and original paint. Now I went to my local Canadian Tire at Laird/Eglinton and tried to look for a gallon of the Tremclad paint that’s my colour and clerk told me that they have to mix it to get the navy blue. They only carry black/white/gray and a few other ordinary colours that are already pre mixed.

Now since 69chargeryeehaa is saying you can’t mix the paint, what am I supposed to do? The clerk said if I want my colour, they combine a bunch of other colour together and then shake it…that’s how I get the colour. Would that still be ok, or do I need one already done by tremclad?

These are the following steps I’ve summarized for anyone that’s trying to follow this process. Please help me elaborate on all of them to make this a good/informative read for everyone.

By biggest trouble area is the paint thinning?!?! How is it done with these mineral spirits, and I also read somewhere through the thread that you have to wipe the paint after it’s done with these mineral spirits again? I am not quite sure, can someone clarify?


- Tremclad acrylic/enamel paint
- 4" professional FOAM rollers, it's tiny and has one end rounded off, and the other cut straight, and is a very high density foam.
- Jug of mineral spirits to thin the paint



Painting process:
- Thin the paint with mineral spirits so it just about as thin as water, a little thicker I don’t understand what is meant by “as thin as water”
- Get out the roller and paint away, don't get the paint shaked when u buy it, enamel is stirred, otherwise you'll have bubbles in the paint for a week
- Apply 2 coats, wetsand with 600grit, apply two more coats, wetsand with 1000 grit, apply last two coats, and wetsand with 1500 grit
- Using a high speed polisher i use a buffing bonnet and turtle wax polishing compound


Sorry for the long post, I’ve never painted a car in my life nor do I know much about body work/paint so please be patient with me.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 03:03 AM

I thought mixing this paint would be no problem? The answers to your questions can be found throughout the thread, and about a week ago there was another thread something like "spell checked, condenced(sic) 50 dollar paint job" which has it all summarized.

As for the thickness of water, after trying it several times I gave up on measuring and just mix it till it looks right, which to me is like maalox I think. definitely thicker then water but still thin, it's hard to describe but you'll see after a few times experimenting which is the right mixture. Just get it to the thickness where it's not running when you put it on a vertical surface, and a couple minutes after you first apply it, run it over very lightly with just the roller (no extra paint but no need to clean it off) to smooth it out.

In my experience it appears orange peely at first, but after drying it's not (as long as the mixture is right).
Posted By: roe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 03:05 AM

Quote:

And here is the after with my cool rattle can hood strips.
Todd




Man I love that Paintjob. I would love to have the car in my sig painted exactly like yours. That color is one that that just appeals to me.

I too have been watching this thread from the beginning and it has been very informative. 69Charger, thanks for all the follow up and info.

Black widow, is your car roll on with spraybomb stripes? What brand/color paint did you use for each?

roe
Posted By: QuickDodge

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 03:40 AM

Hey 69 Charger, Thanks SO MUCH for posting this info and answering all the questions. I've read and re-read this thread and have taken notes!

On the paint thinning, I've sprayed non-automotive enamel with the older high pressure spray guns. Should this paint be thinned to a similar consistency for rolling as spraying?

Secondly, do you keep your orange VW in a garage most of the time?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 04:22 AM

Well here are my results. I am a bit mixed on my opinion, but I may need some high speed buffing tips from 69charger.

Can you describe how to get the best shine out of it with the cheap turtle wax? On the turtle wax container it says to use a wet rag (I used a 10" buffer polisher and sprayed some water down and put some wax on with another cloth, then took the buffer to it).

When I look at this head on (albiet under flourescent lighting probably not the best) it looks hazy to me, not much of a shine. Is that just how enamel is?

On the good side, there's no orange peel at all when viewed from the side. Looks like you could dive into it.

I'm going to haul it outside in the sun when I get a chance to see how it looks there.



Attached picture 2375501-paintfinal2.jpg
Posted By: mopork

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 04:34 AM

Looks AWESOME
Posted By: astrobuf

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 04:36 AM

Chargeryeehaa,

Nice system and results!

For those not sure about this, it is not too different than the original way that cars were painted. Back in the day, Ford, Chevy etc painted their model "T's" etc with crews using brushes. Spray painting had yet to be developed. The same process, brush on level, sand and repeat was was used.

I do share the voiced concern that these paints will fade and/or yellow over tiem if exposed to much sun/UV. This can be mediated some by using a clear coat.

Good luck to those adventurous. Maybe if I paint my Camaro I'd try it!

Astrobuf
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 04:47 AM

Quote:

Looks AWESOME




Thanks! You know, I set the door up so that it's sitting like a door would sit on a car, and I think it looks A LOT better. I think that overhead flourescent light was not the right way to look at a test panel.

This looks a lot more like it, but I really want to get it outside for some sunlight shots.



Attached picture 2375584-IMG_0696(Large).JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 06:47 AM

you could always move to a finer buffing compound if thats not enough shine. However you should prob wetsand with 2000 then go a slightly courser compound then the turtle wax then a super fine polish like mirror glaze. 3m makes some great products for this purpose without getting crazy on the price. Careful though or this paint job will reach 100 dollars. LOL Looks awesome so far though.
Posted By: Snailpower

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 07:33 AM

Exit1965, does your helper have white paint on the end of his nose??
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 02:33 PM

Quote:

Hey 69 Charger, Thanks SO MUCH for posting this info and answering all the questions. I've read and re-read this thread and have taken notes!

On the paint thinning, I've sprayed non-automotive enamel with the older high pressure spray guns. Should this paint be thinned to a similar consistency for rolling as spraying?

Secondly, do you keep your orange VW in a garage most of the time?




i would say you thin the paint just a tad thicker then you would if you were to spray. then orange vw beetle was painted in 1999/2000, and it does live in the garage, but it has been driven 35,000mi since paint. looks exactly as the day i painted it.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 02:53 PM

Quote:

Well here are my results. I am a bit mixed on my opinion, but I may need some high speed buffing tips from 69charger.

Can you describe how to get the best shine out of it with the cheap turtle wax? On the turtle wax container it says to use a wet rag (I used a 10" buffer polisher and sprayed some water down and put some wax on with another cloth, then took the buffer to it).

When I look at this head on (albiet under flourescent lighting probably not the best) it looks hazy to me, not much of a shine. Is that just how enamel is?

On the good side, there's no orange peel at all when viewed from the side. Looks like you could dive into it.

I'm going to haul it outside in the sun when I get a chance to see how it looks there.






you'll poo your pants when you take it out in the sun. indoor lighting is probally the worst for how it really looks, espically flourescent lights. enamel paint does not have that "wet" look like base coat/clear coat paints tend to, but the "depth" of color i find is really true, looks very vibrant, espically in the sun, and twilight i find are when the paint really looks deep. as for the polishing, i used a 10" 3600rpm random orbit electric polisher, and the cheepest turtle wax "polishing" compound paste (white) NOT the rubbing compound. i would put about 2 table spoons of the paste on the buffer, then polish for a few mins, i would say after a 3' x3' area i would spray the bonnet with lots of water, then continue polishing-repeat. don't push on the polisher, just a slight pressure using the weight alone. for exapmle the trunk lid would take me about 20 mins to do, basically just standing there letting the polisher do it's thing. looks from you pics that you've got the process down pat, you'd be supprised how fast you do the whole car. your test area is a bit small, and probally would be harder to do than a larger one. i found that going over even 1000 grit took too long to wetsand, and polishing alot was eaiser and faster then wetsanding. i think i used 1500 grit as my quick "final" sand. also i waxed the paint right after the polish, again with the el-cheapo turtle wax paste wax. i really like that turtle wax stuff, i tried the 3M stuff, mothers, i have a shelf in my garage full of every imaginable wax and polish, turtle wax is the cheapest and the best. as for the toughness of the paint, honestly i can say that it is really scratch resistant, chip resistant, i like it. enamel is alot "harder" then any other type of paint. i wax my cars 2 times a year, once in spring, and once in fall. good job by the way, i'll let you answer all the questions from now on, you officially have the helm!!!
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 02:56 PM

Alenandre y0- all the answers to your questions are in the post somewhere, take the time to read the whole thread. tremclad comes in a navy blue, just have to find it. you can mix different colors and make whatever color you want, but don't get the paint "shaken" when you buy it, just stir it. bubbles will be trapped in the paint for a really long time.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 02:58 PM

Quote:

O.K. Everybody!!Listen up!! 69 Chargeryeehaa pics just do NOT do justice to the paint job!!! I personally seen this car this past weekend and it looks GREAT!You have to see it for yourself in PERSON!! I had to go see for myself!! The shine and smoothness of the paint is impressive.Even my Brother in law who's not into cars liked the paintjob!!Looks like a professional paintjob.Better than what they did on the Dukes show!!Overall the car is a nice cruiser that can be shown.Like most of our toys,his still needs a few things here and there only if they are pointed out.To the local cruise night crowd this Charger can steal the most attention!(69......you can wire me the bribe money by Western Union )




i wired the money to your swiss bank acount as we discussed!!!!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 03:01 PM

Quote:


you'll poo your pants when you take it out in the sun. indoor lighting is probally the worst for how it really looks, espically flourescent lights. enamel paint does not have that "wet" look like base coat/clear coat paints tend to, but the "depth" of color i find is really true, looks very vibrant, espically in the sun, and twilight i find are when the paint really looks deep. as for the polishing, i used a 10" 3600rpm random orbit electric polisher, and the cheepest turtle wax "polishing" compound paste (white) NOT the rubbing compound. i would put about 2 table spoons of the paste on the buffer, then polish for a few mins, i would say after a 3' x3' area i would spray the bonnet with lots of water, then continue polishing. don't push on the polisher, just a slight pressure using the weight alone. for exapmle the trunk lid would take me about 20 mins to do, bisically just standing there letting the polisher do it's thing. looks from you pics that you've got the process down pat, you'd be supprised how fast you do the whole car. your test area is a bit small, and probally would be harder to do than a larger one. i found that going over even 1000 grit took too long to wetsand, and polishing alot was eaiser and faster then wetsanding. i think i used 1500 grit as my "final" sand. also i waxed the paint right after the polish, again with the el-cheapo turtle wax "extreme" wax. i really like that turtle wax stuff, i tried the 3M stuff, mothers, i have a shelf in my garage full of every imaginable wax and polish, turtle wax is the cheapest and the best. as for the toughness of the paint, honestly i can say that it is really scratch resistant, chip resistant, i like it. enamel is alot "harder" then any other type of paint. i wax my cars 2 times a year, once in spring, and once in fall. good job by the way, i'll let you answer all the questions from now on, you officially have the helm!!!





Thanks 69charger. It's surprising how easy it is to do, and the little specs of crap that fell onto the paint when it was wet, they all came out with wetsanding. I was worried about them.

I hope others will try this too, it really is a great deal and it's fun seeing what you can do by hand

Now I'll hopefully get off my can and finish up the bodywork!
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 03:13 PM

Quote:


Thanks 69charger. It's surprising how easy it is to do, and the little specs of crap that fell onto the paint when it was wet, they all came out with wetsanding. I was worried about them.

I hope others will try this too, it really is a great deal and it's fun seeing what you can do by hand

Now I'll hopefully get off my can and finish up the bodywork!




your very welcome. looks like you've done a great job listening and reading all the instructions. you mentioned one more important thing i totally forgot about and that was that any dirt, or hair you have in the paint totally disappear when you wetsand. i forgot to mention that. i would think you would get about 90% more dirt than what you expirenced had you have sprayed the paint on. that's one more thing i like about this process is the dirt is kept to a minimum, unless you have the luxury of having a paint booth. also you can see how easy the paint is to work with, and how you can wetsand the next day, polish and wax right after you wetsand, unlike auto paints where u have to wait 3 months!!!! that's why i like this paint soo much.
Posted By: BurntOrange

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 03:13 PM

Quote:

Exit1965, does your helper have white paint on the end of his nose??




Or is he getting ready to "clearcoat"?
Posted By: max

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 03:35 PM


Quote:


you'll poo your pants when you take it out in the sun. indoor lighting is probally the worst for how it really looks, espically flourescent lights. enamel paint does not have that "wet" look like base coat/clear coat paints tend to, but the "depth" of color i find is really true, looks very vibrant, espically in the sun, and twilight i find are when the paint really looks deep.




i have to agree, with the enamel paint jobs that i have sprayed over the years the flourescent lights don't do them justice and i worked my butt off one time trying to get a haze that i thought was in the paint out because of the lights but when i took the car outside the paint had a really good shine to it.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 03:40 PM

Quote:


Quote:


you'll poo your pants when you take it out in the sun. indoor lighting is probally the worst for how it really looks, espically flourescent lights. enamel paint does not have that "wet" look like base coat/clear coat paints tend to, but the "depth" of color i find is really true, looks very vibrant, espically in the sun, and twilight i find are when the paint really looks deep.




i have to agree, with the enamel paint jobs that i have sprayed over the years the flourescent lights don't do them justice and i worked my butt off one time trying to get a haze that i thought was in the paint out because of the lights but when i took the car outside the paint had a really good shine to it.




ya, it's hard to explain, i find enamel paint to be "warm" and not have that "wet" look like BC/CC. if you want that "wet" look pay the $5000 and get a BC/CC paint job. i personally really like the enamel paint, it looks different from all other modern painted cars, besides that is how these cars came from the factory.
Posted By: max

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 03:41 PM

Quote:

Well here are my results. I am a bit mixed on my opinion, but I may need some high speed buffing tips from 69charger.

Can you describe how to get the best shine out of it with the cheap turtle wax? On the turtle wax container it says to use a wet rag (I used a 10" buffer polisher and sprayed some water down and put some wax on with another cloth, then took the buffer to it).

When I look at this head on (albiet under flourescent lighting probably not the best) it looks hazy to me, not much of a shine. Is that just how enamel is?

On the good side, there's no orange peel at all when viewed from the side. Looks like you could dive into it.

I'm going to haul it outside in the sun when I get a chance to see how it looks there.




i think the work that you have done with that door looks really good. i think you might be under estimatating the shine since you had a small area to work with plus the color you used.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 03:45 PM

Posted By: ONEBADBIRD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 04:03 PM

Hey Exit1965 your paint job is very impressive the reflection and the gloss shine on that one angle pic you took is great. I'm going to do red I believe, and when I get this paint going on my car I will post pics also. keep it rockin
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 04:16 PM

Quote:

hey i said nice car right off the bat and you still havn't come over to paint my car.....




sure i'll paint your car: price $3000-$5000
Posted By: sixpackbee

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/07/06 05:05 PM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 05:34 PM

Quote:

Hey Exit1965 your paint job is very impressive the reflection and the gloss shine on that one angle pic you took is great. I'm going to do red I believe, and when I get this paint going on my car I will post pics also. keep it rockin




I'd really like to try red, the "carnival" red to be exact. I'll try to find some locally and try it on another test patch.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 06:54 PM

Wow. This is amazing. I heard about this on another forum, it was linked here.
I read about it last night, and i bought the supplies today.
Im ready to do a test section on a door TODAY
This is perfect for me.
My only questions is prepping.
I want to do this on a black '79 malibu, the paint is pretty oxidized.
Do i need to sand to bare metal? or can i paint right over the oxidized paint.
I know in your first post, you said prep as normal, fix bondo and all, but i havnt found much about my situation.
I amreading everything you have posted, and compiling a step by step process.
This is great.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 06:59 PM

Quote:

Wow. This is amazing. I heard about this on another forum, it was linked here.
I read about it last night, and i bought the supplies today.
Im ready to do a test section on a door TODAY
This is perfect for me.
My only questions is prepping.
I want to do this on a black '79 malibu, the paint is pretty oxidized.
Do i need to sand to bare metal? or can i paint right over the oxidized paint.
I know in your first post, you said prep as normal, fix bondo and all, but i havnt found much about my situation.
I amreading everything you have posted, and compiling a step by step process.
This is great.




I did this to a door that was in bad shape, some bondo, some rust, some old paint, some primer. I just went over it with 80 grit on a rubber block, then smoothed it out with one of those foam sanding blocks (150 grit I think) until it was smooth. Didn't take me long. As long as it's smooth I think you should be fine, but if you want to do some testing on a bad surface I'm sure lots would like to look at the results.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 07:15 PM

This is great man, I read it last night, and im trying it today!
So all i can do today, is prep the car, and paint one layer, correct?
Tommorow i will wet sand, and then paint once more, correct?
Should i paint right over the paint? or should i sand down to metal. I just went and looked at the test door.
Its on an old boom truck, and there is still a company sign on it. I will remove the sign, and that will leave little sticky behind, so i guess i will have to sand that down. What grit do i get?
I would like to sand the entire test area.
THANKS!!!
Posted By: ultrajosh

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 07:38 PM

http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=18&SBL=1

The "Fresh Blue" on this page almost looks like Petty Blue. Hmmmmmmmm....
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 07:44 PM

Quote:

This is great man, I read it last night, and im trying it today!
So all i can do today, is prep the car, and paint one layer, correct?
Tommorow i will wet sand, and then paint once more, correct?
Should i paint right over the paint? or should i sand down to metal. I just went and looked at the test door.
Its on an old boom truck, and there is still a company sign on it. I will remove the sign, and that will leave little sticky behind, so i guess i will have to sand that down. What grit do i get?
I would like to sand the entire test area.
THANKS!!!




Better read it again there are 2 coats between wetsandings. I have done 2 coats in one day with about 8 hours between them, not sure about doing it any sooner than that. In my experience the paint surface gets smoother as it dries so I wouldn't want cover a still drying, orange peely area with more paint.

I've wetsanded after 10 hours (put coat on before i went to work, came back, had dinner, then wetsanded).

Don't forget to roll over the area with just the roller, very lightly, a couple minutes after you've first applied it smoothly. It will probably look orange peely at first, and running over it again will make smaller orange peelies appear, but they will disappear after it dries as long as you've got the right thickness.

No need to sand to bare metal, just get it somewhat smooth. I prepped the surface last with 150 grit (probably sounds way too rough) but the finish came out fine.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 07:59 PM

Awesome.
Im gonna go get to work.
This is the step by step process i made, using 69chargers words only I added one sentence in ()'s
I just copied, and pasted.
here it is. If i left out anything. LET ME KNOW!
So, im gonna go rip off that sign, and get some 150grit, and sand till its smooth, and thenpaint.
this is exciting

Body prep

next prep your car as if was any other paint job, fix all the rust, ect....
no need to prime the car since the tremclad allready contains elements which allow
it to be painted over bare metal.




mixing paint

next u thin the paint with mineral spirits so it just about as thin as water, a little thicker.
theres no ratio that i could come up with because once you open the can and pour some out the next day the paint will be a bit thicker.
if i had to guess i would say about 20% thinner or so? just thin enough that it does'nt run,
but not too thick. keep in mind that you can allways add more paint to the mix if you go too thin.
and the coats go on really really thin, that is the key, like i said before you don't really have a true non transparent base until the 3rd or 4th coat.




Painting
I also load the roller up quite heavily, then work it until the roller does'nt have so much paint in it
and do the detail work after. once you spread the paint wait a minute or so and then just really gently
run the roller using only the weight of the roller, on the sides just use very very light pressure as if
it were the weight of it. How you thin the paint is critical, i have not had one paint run on any of the cars
i've painted. To give you an idea, you really only start to have full coverage to where u can't see any body work
or underlying color thru the paint until the 3rd coat
after u do 2 coats, wet sand the whole car, then repeat, 2 coats, wetsand, 2 coats wetsand
The trick is in how you thin the paint, get it as thin as possible without running,
and the paint "self levels" it comes out like glass,
wet sanding just makes it better,'
when the paint is thinned your barley putting on any paint with each coat, so you really need to do about
6 coats to get enough of a base so you can wet sand and polish
You only cover up the bodywork, underlying color until after the 4th coat, keep in mind that there is wet sanding in between each 2 coats.
if you get bubbles when your painting your pushing down on the roller too hard, lighten it up a bit,
let the paint sit for 1 minute after you've spread it out nice, then just run the roller over the area VERY gently using only the weight of the roller,
then turn around, have a smoke after you've done the pannel, and when your done your smoke, turn around and you'll see it has "self leveled"
before your eyes


Painting Hard to get areas

do the hood, doors, front fenders, and the trunk, that's easy.
then i do the whole roof and sail pannels in one shot working fast, there's enough time to do it before the paint tacks up if u rush it,
not the time to have a coffee or smoke. i stopped at the rear quarter just below the sail pannels and top quarter pannel where there is a edge to stop at.
then continue from there on each side meeting in the back rear valance. the trick there is to not leave and raised paint lines,
and smooth it out gradually as u approach the point where u stop, then run to the other side and do the other half of the roof and overlap the strokes.
wetsanding does the rest, but u try to make it as smooth as possible, the paint is very thin on each coat. it's really hard to describe,
that's where all the expirementing comes in to play.



Sanding

do one panel at a time, and don't stop once you start. once your done the final coat,
wetsand with about 1000 grit to a totally smooth finish, and then using a high speed polisher
i use a buffing bonnet and turtle wax polishing compound. do the whole car with this, and i'm telling u,
depending on the amount of time and paitence you have, the results are amazing
use a spray bottle and keep the paper really wet, finish with a 1000 grit or so and then buff with a random
orbit polisher using turtle wax POLISHING compound, NOT the rubbing compound, its' to harsh.
it is critical to use the proper roller, it's about 4" wide and about 1 1/2" thick,
and really high density white foam. it really works and is much tougher paint than todays single stage or base clear,
very hard to scratch
did not block sand the car just wetsand progressivly finer paper by HAND, no machine, no block nothing.
using any "block" to sand i found the paper got dirty fast and got all plugged up,
so do it by hand and keep it really wet, using a spray bottle in one hand and a clean bucket of water and a shammy
(dollar store!!!)to clean it off to see how it looks. i prepped the car with 80, then 100, then 200,
finished with a 400, did all my body work, and painted. after 2 coats (about 4hrs work for the whole car)
i wetsanded with a 600, then did 2 more coats, wetsand with 800, 2 more coats and sand with a 1000-1500 and polish,
followed by wax, done......
one more pointer, when u wet sand the final coat, the paint looks flat, like velvet,
if you take a rag soaked with mineral spirits and whipe a spot down that you just sanded,
that's what it will look like buffed. if you buff and decide to paint again clean the area with
mineral spirts so that and residue from the polishing compound is removed or the paint won't stick.
do another coat, try to put it on really light, i hope u prepped the fender a little before you started painting.
when u wet sand try using a 600-800 grit, and lightly wet sand the fender with light pressure and ALOT of water.
Spraying it on should maybe work better but its messy, stinky, and a pain. when u first start to wet sand you'll notice
the paper just kinda glides over the paint and it does'nt really feel like your sanding anything, keep going, soon the water will stop
beeding off the paint and it will start to turn yellow. after wetsanding it looks like crap, this is where the polishing come in, brings it to glass.
i haven't tried soap and water, i see no real advantage, i just use straight water and keep the area really wet, using a spray bottle and spray it down alot,
after wetsanding for a bit i have a bucket of water and a shammy i whipe down the surface with while it's still wet, that way it's much eaiser
to clean before it dries. and as for the mineral spirits on a wet rag and just whiping it down, yes, that's what it looks like polished, even better,
just gives you an idea of what it will look like when finished, that's about the first time you really see the results.




buffing
polishing compound, not rubbing compound
the rubbing compound could be used if you really want to, i just found it much better to wetsand with 1000 grit and then go straight to polishing,
that's what worked for me. the rubbing compound seemed to ball up under the polisher and make a mess and make some scratches when it balled up,
i used the polishing compound on a regular bonnet on a 10" elecrtic random orbit polisher, it's only after polishing that it looks like glass,
and i kept it wet with water from a spray bottle on the bonnet, forgot to mention that, but keeping it quite wet worked great.

like i mentioned before after wetsanding use a random orbit polisher and the cheapest
POLISHING COMPOUND made by turtle wax, it comes in a paste in a small round flat container and it's white,
allmost looks like hand cream and smells good too!!!



Random tips

as a hint if you try it first you paint the surface, and then really lightly "skim" the surface with the weight of the roller
only to remove any lines bubbles ect, then just leave it for a minute or two and you'll see it just "self levels"
totally flat to glass. then wetsand it really fine
Oh and i strip the car of all chrome, bumpers, rubber, door handles, trim, ect...nothing looks cheaper than a car that's just taped!!!
have a shelf full of polishing compounds, mothers, mequires, ect....know what works the best?
the cheapest one!!! turtle wax polishing compound in the white paste, $3,
polish ANY enamel with a electric random orbit polisher and you'll be impressed......... and just a tip if you try it keep the buffing bonnet WET,
have a spray bottle full of water and spray it on the bonnet each time u load up the polish paste, be very generous with both.
there's still bubbles in the paint when u mixed it really well then get some paper towel and "skim" the surface to get rid of the bubbles.
if you get bubbles when your painting your pushing down on the roller too hard, lighten it up a bit, let the paint sit for 1 minute,
after you've spread it out nice, then just run the roller over the area VERY gently using only the weight of the roller,
then turn around, have a smoke after you've done the pannel, and when your done your smoke, turn around and you'll see it has "self leveled"
before your eyes. if your doing a vertical section just apply a tiny amount of pressure as if it were the weight alone of the roller.
it's really tricky to do, i could lay it down perfectly level but i have done it alot, you have to "read" the paint, listen carefully,
it will tell you what to to . hope this helps.
DON'T use water!!! (to clean the roller, or paper towels)
Posted By: BurntOrange

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 08:25 PM

Quit talkin' and get paintin'!
Holy C*** page 6 already?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 08:33 PM

One thing about wetsanding- when I tried it with a hard rubber block, I found it loaded up too much. I tried it by hand which worked ok. What I finally ended up using was one of those foam sanding blocks (the same 150 grit one I used to sand the surface before I started) with the paper wrapped around it. I used 600, then 800, then 1500 (2 coats between each).

You will probably have to experiment with the correct mixture of mineral spirits. I started off trying to measure, but it was a pain to try to measure very small amounts (like under 2 oz total) since I was doing a small area. In the end, I just had a yogurt container where I mixed the paint and spirits, and got it a lot thinner than it comes out of the can, but not watery. Then I'd pour it into the paint tray, and what was left I'd put back in the yogurt container (w/lid of course) where I'd mix the next batch in with the old batch. Very little waste with that process..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 09:18 PM

So heres some background.
Im 20 years old, and currently on leave from baghdad till saturday! so i dont have much time at all.
I have absolutely 0 experience in paint and body.
I was out there sanding, and my dad laughed at me, he got me a body grinder, and all i have was 40! grit, soi used that on it. I found a HUGE bondo spot in the door, which made my test area shink alot! All i gotta do is mix the paint, and go at it. I will update in a few minutes when im done. I am takin pictures as i go.
this is so exciting.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/07/06 09:22 PM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 09:25 PM

69charger, Scroll up a little and look what i made, do you think i could go by that, as a step by step process, Thats only your words. Im about to paint in the next ten minutes. a very lite coat, and another tommorow monring.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 09:28 PM

Quote:

69charger, Scroll up a little and look what i made, do you think i could go by that, as a step by step process, Thats only your words. Im about to paint in the next ten minutes. a very lite coat, and another tommorow monring.




looks like you have everything there, i feel like i wrote a book. just give it a shot and quit typing lol
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 10:08 PM

Ok some more questions. I went to Lowes today and looked at their rustoleum. It says to thin with acetone and that mineral spirits is not even an ingredient in their paints. However I went to Tractor Supply Co. TSC and looked at their valspar rust preventative enamel and it says that mineral spirits is the main ingredient of their paint. However, Valspar can says not to thin at all? Can I use the valspar paint and thin it with mineral spirits? It is enamel after all? I am starting to think that tremclad is not the exact same composition as rustoleum.
Posted By: KingMopar

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 10:16 PM

To be honest...... with all the money spent on these older Mopars, especially in a Concours Correct type of judging, paint pen marks in proper locations, certain amount of overspray, etc--do they not take off points for Base/Clear paintjobs? I was just wondering. I remember Mom's 71 Duster when it was new--and like Charger is basically saying, the colors were Warm looking, not Wet looking like the Modern B/C jobs. They had a shine sure, but not to the degree we've been basically spoiled by. I think they were shot with Acrylic Enamel from the factory, in the very late 60's to early 70's and beyond. Correct me if I'm wrong. Seems Dupont Imron was really coming on strong around the late 70's to early 80's, if memory serves me correctly.(and killed alot of "old school" painters)

In the 50's, I think Lacquer and Enamel were kings of their day, with Lacquer being the paint used more for show/custom jobs because of the mass amounts of sanding/buffing that paint requires-but upon doing so, had more sheen than Enamel could offer. (Too young to remember a "factory 50's car and it's fresh coat of factory Enamel paint...some here probably do )

A good friend of mine is older than I, and I'm 43-him about 65...and his dad was the local body guru locally for the Oldsmobile Dealership, where he worked everyday after school and summers doing the tedious/boring stuff-so 50's early 60's era. Too bad he has lost his "leading" skill over the years. He's mentioned several times how his dad would place a can of open paint, on a "warm" hotplate first thing in the morning to stir and warm it up, for the days shoot and spending alot of time getting panels right and doing lead work. More 'fixing' was done-vs-today's replacing. It is interesting to listen to him speak of the "old days" of doing auto painting and body work and how when Plastic came out, everyone thought it was the cat's meow as far as speed wise, but was more for those "quicky" deals as the bondo back then was worst than today's modern plastics. Lead was the standard for first rate jobs.....and really still is. It's the gauge that modern plastics use.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 10:27 PM

Quote:

Ok some more questions. I went to Lowes today and looked at their rustoleum. It says to thin with acetone and that mineral spirits is not even an ingredient in their paints. However I went to Tractor Supply Co. TSC and looked at their valspar rust preventative enamel and it says that mineral spirits is the main ingredient of their paint. However, Valspar can says not to thin at all? Can I use the valspar paint and thin it with mineral spirits? It is enamel after all? I am starting to think that tremclad is not the exact same composition as rustoleum.




even with the tremclad there is several brands, auto/rv paint, truck paint, tractor paint, but i just used the regular rust paint. i can'nt tell you what you should use since i'm in canada and we have tremclad.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 10:52 PM

Can you look at the list of ingredients on your tremclad can and post them in order. This tells which ingredients have higher concentrations. Anyhow if it has mineral spirits as a key ingredient I do not see how it would not work when thinning. I may try to buy a small can and try it. Also thinking about using the hardner thats available with the valspar and only using half of what the normal ratio of hardner is.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 11:01 PM

Quote:

Can you look at the list of ingredients on your tremclad can and post them in order. This tells which ingredients have higher concentrations. Anyhow if it has mineral spirits as a key ingredient I do not see how it would not work when thinning. I may try to buy a small can and try it. Also thinking about using the hardner thats available with the valspar and only using half of what the normal ratio of hardner is.



it just says thin and clean up with varsol or mineral spirits, no ingredients.
here is the stuff i used:
http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=541&SBL=5&dds=47

and here is what i think it is in rustoleium:
http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=18&SBL=1&dds=16

it's all made by the same company, just one name for the us and one for canada. allthough i did remember seeing rustoleum in a store here one time.

i would definetly NOT roller a paint that requires a hardner, that would so get messy i think. run away grasshopper!!!!

what did you use EXIT1965? since your in the US you could clear up this issue?
Posted By: sixpackbee

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/07/06 11:30 PM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/07/06 11:36 PM

Quote:


what did you use EXIT1965? since your in the US you could clear up this issue?




I used the standard rustoleum enamel found at walmart, home depot etc. This is the stuff:



I did notice the walmart I went to had different looking cans with different copyright dates on them, and some said "almond" and some said "almond gloss" but both were code 7770. I think they were the same, just different packaging but I went with the stuff with the newest date (2003 I think) that said "almond gloss".
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 12:02 AM

i think i added a tad too much mineral spirits, but it wasnt as thin as water. I mixed it in a cup, so i would splash the side of the cup, and see how it ran down. I definently used more than 20:80
I got some bubbles too, i found if you blew on them, they went away, and would level out somewhat. It went right over bonbo.
what do you think. This picture is RIGHt after i put the paint on.
i figure the bubbles will come out when i wet sand.









Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 12:10 AM

harrisonTX - way to heavy a coat, try thinner coats, less mineral spirits, mix the paint alot more. you should see the body work thru the coat of paint until about the 3rd coat. oh and those little bubbles in the paint hint that the paint has been thinned a tad too much, they can be made to go away it you wait about 5 mins after painting, then just barely any pressure running the roller over it. then wait a few mins and the bubbles are totally gone. if you see those bubbles in the paint pan, then get rid of them with some paper towels and just "skim" the surface. but u definetly have to use thinner coats, less mineral spirits.
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 12:13 AM

This has all been very interesting. This is a paint job that I did on the race car and was called a lier about it being a spray bomb paint job. It is all metalic truck colors by Duplicolor. They have the spray bomb with the fan spray. This only lasted for 4 years though and took about 12 cans of paint.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/08/06 12:15 AM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: sixpackbee

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/08/06 12:22 AM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 12:28 AM

Quote:

This has all been very interesting. This is a paint job that I did on the race car and was called a lier about it being a spray bomb paint job. It is all metalic truck colors by Duplicolor. They have the spray bomb with the fan spray. This only lasted for 4 years though and took about 12 cans of paint.





nice job , i actually know the "fan" spray can nozzle your talking about, they are really nice, and spray amazing. i used the duplicolor engine enamel paint on the engine tin on both my beetles, comes out like glass, and those nozzles spray really really nice.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/08/06 12:29 AM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 01:05 AM

Thanks but Showing the pic of the Duster paint job was in know way running down your Rustoleme painting as it took me alot of cans and the damn duplicolor is like water to spray. Even with all those cans of paint it really wasn't thick enough to give a good buffing out. It shined pretty good for a couple of years but in all reality it was short lived. But then I expected it to be so wasn't really disappointded.
The paint job on the car now is base clear, sprayed in a body shop booth by a freind and I have about 200 bucks in it total. Like I said before I am gong to try your method and experiment on my rusty horse trailer and see if I can perfect myself. Good I hate paint brushes and rollers. I did a metal barn and a house last summer.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/08/06 01:09 AM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: ONEBADBIRD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 01:27 AM

Easy 69Charger don't let that fella spoil your night. 99.9% of us posting here support your idea including me, going to try it as soon as this winter weather breaks. We all know as well that most body shops (not all) here someone say classic car and they start rubbing there hands together and break out the calculator and start adding up the $$,$$$,$$$,$$$ Bill. But hey if someone is a millionare and has the cash to lay down for a 1,000 hour restoration more power to them but I have to just save my pennies basically to get my muscle on the road so I'll save a buck when I can and still have something to be proud to have in my driveway: Jay
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 01:37 AM

Quote:

Easy 69Charger don't let that fella spoil your night. 99.9% of us posting here support your idea including me, going to try it as soon as this winter weather breaks. We all know as well that most body shops (not all) here someone say classic car and they start rubbing there hands together and break out the calculator and start adding up the $$,$$$,$$$,$$$ Bill. But hey if someone is a millionare and has the cash to lay down for a 1,000 hour restoration more power to them but I have to just save my pennies basically to get my muscle on the road so I'll save a buck when I can and still have something to be proud to have in my driveway: Jay




thanks dude, honestly i just don't know what possesses people to just come on a thread and pick a fight. i'm just trying to share what i've done, hoping to help out fellow people in the hobby, and then guys like that come in and just want to piss on you cause they have had a awesome revelation and ate Kentucky Fried Chicken with God and are convinced that it will never work, and i'm personally attacking people. i guess it's expected with a thread like this where there are so many views, but it still gets to me. it's like when you go to a bar, there's allways one drunk guy that just wants to fight just cause your there.

as for waiting for the spring, i painted the 74 orange beetle in the pics in the dead of winter january freeze up here in canada, if you have a garage, a space heater, and some of those 1500W $10 flood lights, you'll be very confortable and have a bit of a tan .
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 01:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Easy 69Charger don't let that fella spoil your night. 99.9% of us posting here support your idea including me, going to try it as soon as this winter weather breaks. We all know as well that most body shops (not all) here someone say classic car and they start rubbing there hands together and break out the calculator and start adding up the $$,$$$,$$$,$$$ Bill. But hey if someone is a millionare and has the cash to lay down for a 1,000 hour restoration more power to them but I have to just save my pennies basically to get my muscle on the road so I'll save a buck when I can and still have something to be proud to have in my driveway: Jay




thanks dude, honestly i just don't know what possesses people to just some on a thread and pick a fight. i'm just trying to share what i've done, hoping to help out fellow people in the hobby, and then guys like that come in and just want to piss on you cause they have had a awesome revelation and ate Kentucky Fried Chicken with god and are convinced that it will never work, and i'm personally attacking people. i guess it's expected with a thread like this where there are so many reads, but it still gets to me. it's like when you go to a bar, there's allways one drunk guy that just wants to fight just cause your there.



I don't feel that this method of DIY painting was put in to degrade body shop paint jobs at all. It was started and has progressed into a very informative alternative for those of us whose money tree hasn't taken root and cannot afford to pay bodyshop rates. Even an alternative for those of us, like myself taht can buy wholesale paint and has a friend that is a professional body man that can help me out for cheap. Not all require that show car don't touch unless you are naked, afraid to drive it may get chipped paint. We want to be able to drive and enjoy it not drive it and worry about it.
Posted By: Ira

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 02:01 AM

this is a really good thread guys, but it's gone a bit off topic so I'm going to tidy it up a bit
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 02:09 AM

This thread is awesome, keep up the work!

Mike
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 02:21 AM

Quote:

this is a really good thread guys, but it's gone a bit off topic so I'm going to tidy it up a bit




awwww, u meenie, that was some of my best material where were you 2 hours ago? could have used your wizardry then. u should have just left it up, i thought it was quite ammusing. at least email it to me so i can put it in my own personal archives!!!
Posted By: Ira

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/08/06 02:27 AM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/08/06 02:30 AM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/08/06 02:33 AM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 02:37 AM

LESS DRAMA ------ MORE PAINT TALK.
Posted By: Ira

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/08/06 02:43 AM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/08/06 02:47 AM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: Clair_Davis

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 03:06 AM

I think I'm going to look in to seeing what it will take to tint some of the white to match the good old Plymouth White, AKA, W1. Until some time well beyond the forseeable future, funds around here aren't going to be what they once were, now that Monkey Boy is here. So, instead of a shiny new paint job for Elvira AND the Fury, I'm going to go "Pro Patina (TM)" on Elvira. I've already got the paint for the Fury, so that's a done deal. However, the 37-year-old paint on Elvira really is good enough on 90% of the body that I can probably just buff it out and get a decent shine. On the rest of the car, like the hood, DS fender, and bumper filler, I just need to make it match close enough for a driver. That's what she is, after all. So, if I can get the Rust-O to match W1, I'm willing to give this a try. In this photo, her last public outing (Fall, 2004...), she's wearing a Plastikote touch-up spray bomb on the DS fender.

I did that fender in the carport the night before the show, and it turned out OK. White hides a multitude of sins, and the sun shines A LOT down here... BUT, the distinct advantage of rolling it on is that my wife won't have conniptions about me painting in the driveway. Plus, those little 6oz cans are JUNK, I had to throw three of them out at half full because they started puking paint out from under the nozzle. I've got some investigating to do...

Clair

Attached picture 2378348-Valiant-SWMMN-04.JPG
Posted By: 69superbee383

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 04:15 AM

I used the 7747 Yellow on a Duster fender...was going well till I screwed it up by doing the two coats then wet sanding and then on the third coat leaving it outside on a foggy cold night...bad One thing I did play with however was using a combo of the roller and then doing the wheel lips with the same color in the Rustoleum spray...I wonder if you could use it to do jambs and hard to get too areas. I did notice the two blended fine.

Want to see true paint quality I could show you my Bee with the original paint on the inner wheel housings and inner door frame with all the nice drips and runs in it. these things were not exactly painted to some show quality out of the box anyway.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 03:10 PM

i do everything with the roller, the fenders and wheel lips all with the roller, the only place where the brush comes in is when doing the drip rail, the front cowl grill slots, under hood, trunk, door jambs. but even then for the cowl vent for example, i would run the brush in every slot, and then finish off with the roller on top. i also had a spray bomb on hand with the same color thinking i would need to spray a hard to reach area and never used it. even when you do the door jambs for example, i would say 90% can be done with the roller, and the rest you do with a foam brush, finish with the roller last.
Posted By: noisydart

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 05:53 PM

GREAT Thread. I've now used more than the $50.
for the paint job in paper and colored ink for my Epson 440 printer copying these tips!
Well worth it tho, definitely going to try this!
Posted By: mopork

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 09:03 PM



Robert-
Tremclad is an umbrella name the same way we used to use Labor Saver
for
some of our industrial products. The Industrial Enamels, Aerosols,
Epoxies
and Polyurethanes would be rough equivalents to the corresponding
Tremclad
products, although there is not always a direct color or exact product
crossover.

-Rick

Consumer/Technical Service Team

Rust-Oleum Corporation 11 Hawthorn Parkway Vernon Hills, IL 60061
Ph
(877) 385.8155 Fax (847) 816.2330 MSDS:www.rustoleum.com
VirtualSolutions

this is my answer from rustoleum. I had asked what is the U.S. equivalent to the Canadian product Tremclad.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 09:08 PM

I was not thrilled with this answer. Sounds like the politicly correct way to say they are different products. rough equivalents to the corresponding Tremclad
products, although there is not always a direct color or exact product crossover.
Posted By: KingMopar

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 09:15 PM

I had an 87 Horizon that was chipping paint on the top and was a beater work car. I scuffed the top and shot the Sail Blue Rustolium, about mid-day on the top and it looked well, till I too left it outside and frost got on top, dulled it up after that--so, keep it inside till it's cured.
Posted By: mopork

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 09:20 PM

this looks like the perfect thing for direct to metal auto painting in the U.S.

http://rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=228&SBL=2
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 09:55 PM

Quote:

this looks like the perfect thing for direct to metal auto painting in the U.S.

http://rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=228&SBL=2




Any idea where to buy this industrial grade stuff? I think I saw something similar at home depot, but they only had the gallon size and I dont think they had but 1 or 2 colors.

Rustoleum has a dealer finder, but it mostly gives walmarts, targets and stuff and says not all dealers carry all their products (duh).

Anyways though, I've gotten good preliminary results from the cheap enamel, not sure what the real benefit of the industrial grade stuff would be, since after all we are not talking about a standard application (i.e., 6 coats mixed with mineral spirits, wetsanding between each 2 coats) of the product anyways. But then, maybe the industrial stuff would be better even after a similar application..
Posted By: mopork

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 10:05 PM

http://rustoleum.com/Vendors.asp?ddiw=1&SBL=2

Where to buy in U.S.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 10:30 PM

Quote:

http://rustoleum.com/Vendors.asp?ddiw=1&SBL=2

Where to buy in U.S.




Thanks! Looks like a Kelly Moore in my area should have it.

Can anyone imagine how the industrial grade stuff would work better than the cheap stuff? 69charger has had his paint on for years and apparently it looks the same as when he painted, so I am wondering how better it could get
Posted By: jwh

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/08/06 10:53 PM

Grainger Industrial Supply sell a lot of Rustoleum products, there catalog has paint chips too. I'm gonna do my son's Scamp like this when the weather warms up. jwh
Posted By: Diego_Ted

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/10/06 01:47 AM

Posted By: mopork

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/10/06 03:28 AM

Hey I went to Home Depot today they have the industrial enamel in gallons and it call be tinted in any color in a gloss or flat base
Posted By: NAS Backyard

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/10/06 06:22 AM

I used Rustoleum on a project about 25 yrs ago, it faded pretty quick. I have a guy doing my body work and paint at my house right now. He said we will be painting it next weekend.

Attached picture 2384936-IM000046.JPG
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/10/06 02:21 PM

Quote:

Hey I went to Home Depot today they have the industrial enamel in gallons and it call be tinted in any color in a gloss or flat base




Interesting! I am still not sure the benefit of the industrial stuff. The difference in glossyness I dont think would be a factor since wetsanding takes the glossyness off anyways (then polishing brings it back). Maybe it's more resistant to chips or something, but 69charger's (non-industrial) tremclad seems to be fine in that area.

I will probably stick with good old 7770 Almond Gloss, but I can't decide if I want to try an orange-red color. I bet home depot can mix up the cheap stuff too? if not, maybe kelly moore.

I haven't been at home during the daylight, but tomorrow I should be able to yank my test door outside and get some shots of it at various angles in good light.

Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/10/06 03:03 PM

Quote:

I used Rustoleum on a project about 25 yrs ago, it faded pretty quick. I have a guy doing my body work and paint at my house right now. He said we will be painting it next weekend.



That was 25 years ago. I know a guy painted his trailer with red Rustolem about the probably in teh same time frame and it lasted aout 2 years anchalked up really bad. BUT here is an area that I think that technology has vastly improved teh quality and longevity of the products.
Posted By: 70Coronet500Vert

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/10/06 04:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I used Rustoleum on a project about 25 yrs ago, it faded pretty quick. I have a guy doing my body work and paint at my house right now. He said we will be painting it next weekend.



That was 25 years ago. I know a guy painted his trailer with red Rustolem about the probably in teh same time frame and it lasted aout 2 years anchalked up really bad. BUT here is an area that I think that technology has vastly improved teh quality and longevity of the products.




I'm laughing here. Some of these posts are reminding me of comments we get about our Mopars. "Yeah I knew a guy who did this once and he had this or he had that...." Meanwhile the guys who are doing it or have done it, just look at ya with knowing smiles..... LOL Always entertaining.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/10/06 04:28 PM

I find the tremclad (rustoleum) stuff bullet proof, tough as nails, VERY chip resistant, and i have zero fade. but i maintain my stuff, wash it alot, and wax a few times a year. i guess any paint would fade, espically if you put a fresh paint job and park the car outside. right after you buff, wax the car, it'll look great and last.
EXIT_1965- i'd really like to see your pics in the sun, i think you'll be quite pleased, out of all the PM's and email's i've got, your job looks perfect from what pics i've seen. you've done all the correct steps, and seem to have a nack for it. i don't expect someone with absoultly no paint expirence to pull off a perfect job the first time. i can't stress enough that you should get a old hood or something and test the whole process like EXIT_1965 did. i'm sure there was a learning curve, but now that he has the tequnique down, i'm sure he's confortable with the process and see's how easy it really is once you know how to do it. and knowing what you know now, with a better prep than your test peice, and proper application of the paint, you'll have much less wetsanding, ect....and i'm sure you'll be happy with the results, and have a cool ride with cheap paint that you'll be prowd to say " ya, thanks, i painted it myself....you'll never guess how i did it....and the best part; how much it cost me....!!!"
be carefull who you tell or you may end up painting your friends cars!!! kind of like haveing a pick-up truck, all these friends come out of the woodwork, and want to be your "truck buddy" when they need to move!!! that's why i got rid of my truck!!! hey, where all my friends go.....
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/10/06 05:08 PM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: 70Coronet500Vert

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/10/06 05:55 PM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/10/06 06:42 PM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/10/06 07:42 PM

Thanks Charger! I don't have much of any paint experience, but there is definately a learning curve like you said. The first time I tried it the paint was way over thinned, and I just sat back and watched while it ran down..

Along the process, I did have to sand it down a couple of times if I thought it looked funny, too orange peely or whatever. In fact, I had done like 5 coats, and one looked too orange peely so I wetsanded it with 600 then took my foam sanding thing (like 150 grit) and went over it with that just to make myself sure the orange peel was out. After that I put 4 more coats before I was done.

The bottom line with this is to experiment, and the great thing is that if you screw up, just do some sanding until you're happy (e.g. I used a 150 grit foam block when I probably "shouldn't have"), then do your next coat. It sands really easily.
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/10/06 07:48 PM

Quote:

Thanks Charger! I don't have much of any paint experience, but there is definately a learning curve like you said. The first time I tried it the paint was way over thinned, and I just sat back and watched while it ran down..

Along the process, I did have to sand it down a couple of times if I thought it looked funny, too orange peely or whatever. In fact, I had done like 5 coats, and one looked too orange peely so I wetsanded it with 600 then took my foam sanding thing (like 150 grit) and went over it with that just to make myself sure the orange peel was out. After that I put 4 more coats before I was done.

The bottom line with this is to experiment, and the great thing is that if you screw up, just do some sanding until you're happy (e.g. I used a 150 grit foam block when I probably "shouldn't have"), then do your next coat. It sands really easily.



Exactly why I say I am going to practice on something that isn't so fussy.
Posted By: texczech

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/11/06 01:52 PM

I too have experimented with rolling on paint, but never thought to thin it as much as suggested. I have found a paint called Rust Scat that is a polyurethane high gloss enamel I had tried with some success. There is also a liquid material that would thin the paint that is called penetrol, it makes the paint flow smoother when using a brush, so I think it would work as a thinner. I am still curious if anyone is trying the Rustoleum from the USA market vs the tremclad, to see how they like it.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/11/06 02:52 PM

Quote:

I too have experimented with rolling on paint, but never thought to thin it as much as suggested. I have found a paint called Rust Scat that is a polyurethane high gloss enamel I had tried with some success. There is also a liquid material that would thin the paint that is called penetrol, it makes the paint flow smoother when using a brush, so I think it would work as a thinner. I am still curious if anyone is trying the Rustoleum from the USA market vs the tremclad, to see how they like it.




This is a LONG thread, but you'll read above that I have used the USA cheap rustoleum enamel with success. There are pics above (back this thread a bit). In a couple more hours I'll post some pics in natural daylight of the test area I painted.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/11/06 05:04 PM

Outdoor pic 1.



Attached picture 2388493-IMG_0700(Large).JPG
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/11/06 05:04 PM

Pic 2.



Attached picture 2388495-IMG_0705(Large).JPG
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/11/06 05:06 PM

pic 3.


I'm not used to staring at paint head on in direct sunlight. There is not a whole lot of shine head-on with this color, but it works for me!

Attached picture 2388499-IMG_0711(Large).JPG
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/11/06 05:35 PM

A better reflection.



Attached picture 2388548-crpIMG_0730(Large).JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/11/06 05:44 PM

Wow, that looks pretty good! Why doesn't this thread have a sticky?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/11/06 05:53 PM

I think I'll try a chip resistance test on it. Like throwing a small rock at it. I can video it. Anyone got a better idea for chip or scratch resistance test? I know it's not very often a rock smashes into a car surface at a 90 degree angle, so I'll angle it a bit.

Should I "key" it?

Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/11/06 06:06 PM

nice pics, look at it in direct sun, it will look even better. as for the chip resistance, i was driving my 74 orange bug behind a pickup, and there was a pile of gravel on the side of the road, and the pickup kicked up a huge rock, i'd say 2" jagged crushed rock, and it hit my hood, and then my roof, i did'nt even want to look it hit so hard. when i got home, there was a dust crater but no chip, that convinced me that it's tough stuff. if you get a scratch u just buff it out. if it ever does get dull, again you could just buff it, and like new again. since there's not many "layers" when you compare for example a single stage acrylic enamel, where there is primer, primer sealer, and topcoat paint, there is less likley hood of chipping since there is less "bonding" issues with the paint, and in reality it is much thinner than a traditional paint job. another trick that i did is with my bug again i got a nasty chip when someone opened up a door on the car, i just touched it up, really thin about 3 times letting each dry properly, then i wet sanded really carefully with 1500 grit, and then buffed, totally gone, and it was really easy to do.
Posted By: max

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/11/06 06:35 PM

Quote:

A better reflection.






i think that turned out very well for it being your first and for the color it is.

this might be the new way of restoring cars since alot of the BC/CC cars are way shiner then the original paint that was used when they were new or as i call them "over restored cars"

the chip resistance test will be what is interesting, i believe the chemical activated paints dry to quickly and make them brittle. i know the laquer paint i have on my challenger is really brittle and when it chips it is almost double the actual size of the impacked area
Posted By: Clair_Davis

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/11/06 10:57 PM

As an aside, I just got back from Lowe's checking on these paints. They've got a few colors of the Rustoleum industrial/professional stuff, but not a lot of selection. I asked the paint guy if it could be tinted, he said no. The only one he had that COULD be tinted in the industrial type paint was the Valspar Anti-Rust oil-based enamel. It comes in 29 oz cans, and is either a clear base or a pastel base. He said it could be tinted to any of the colors in the "color wall" under the Valspar brand, or he could do an optical match if I could bring in a sample. I wonder if they can fit my spare deck lid under the scanner?

Clair
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/11/06 11:45 PM

Keep it going, nice tan!! that really shines!!
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 12:00 AM

can we get this in the 'best of moparts' so we dont lose it?
Posted By: Scatpak

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 01:25 AM

I agree, this need to be saved.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 01:41 AM

oh sure.......NOW you wanna save it
Posted By: KingMopar

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 02:40 AM

That did turn out kinda nice I would hold off on any chip test quite yet, as being an enamel it will take it awhile to dry to it's hardest potential, and I'm thinking you want the "best case" type of experiment.
Posted By: C38coupe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 03:10 AM

Way to go Charger, this has been a great info thread. I have finished the 6th coat on my test piece an old metal dash,from a 1948 Dodge Coupe. It is silky smooth and when you wipe the spirits over what a great look to it, super shiny and smo oth like glass. Unfortunately the only thing I have is Turtle Wax and not Polishing compound. This unfortunately will not bring back the shine, so I wiped it off with the spirits again. Will only the polishing compound bring back the shine. I can tell this will look awesome if I can get back the shine...........Take it easy 48 coupe
Posted By: earlybee

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 03:55 AM

Quote:

oh sure.......NOW you wanna save it


just a 1/4 of it.
Posted By: KARLN

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 04:29 AM

Hey Martin,
You make it sound pretty easy, I'll have to get you to come over and do my T/A!
lol
your buddy,
Karl
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 06:21 AM

Ok well, a LOT was covered in this thread. There has bound to be something I missed. For now, I'd just like to get my Duster primered. I went to Lowe's and boughta small can of Rustoleum grey primer to get me started, 4" rounded ended rollers, some sand paper, and some mineral spirits.

I may try and attempt to do the trunk lid or something tomorrow. Can you please give me the break-down of what i need to do to get a nice even coat on there.

How much thinner to the paint? How much pressure on the roller? How much paint on the roller/coat?

Thanks in advance, I may get started as soon as tomorrow
Posted By: Just Cameron

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 07:24 AM

What does everyone think of this el-cheapo HVLP setup harbor freight sells for $99? Think it'd make short work of a car, or crap out one panel at a time?
HVLP Help.
Posted By: Just Cameron

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 07:27 AM

roll forward, then back to take care of any bubbles, Goody. Overlap slightly and head the same direction. Use a brush in hard to roller areas, then roll up to meet the brushed areas. That's about all you keed to know. So easy a monkey could do it.
Posted By: Mobarge

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 07:41 AM

I'm going to try this on an old Satellite hood tomorrow afternoon, with both black (very tough color!) and yellow (if I can find it at Home Depot).

And to think I was just about ready to shell out $5,000 for paint...
Posted By: Just Cameron

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 07:45 AM

I LOVE showing off these pics. Lita did this for $35 with the Rustoleum flat enamel. One coat in direct sunlight!



Been almost a year and still looks great.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 07:48 AM

quick q on the thining the paint, is it best to pour it into the little roller paint holster thing and adding some thinner. Roughly how thin? very watery? or
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 02:50 PM

Quote:

quick q on the thining the paint, is it best to pour it into the little roller paint holster thing and adding some thinner. Roughly how thin? very watery? or




Definitely thicker than water. If you've ever used "floetrol" for house paint or something, it's close to the thickness of that.
Posted By: Blackwidow69

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 04:25 PM

Now just so everyone understands Goody is just starting with primer. I would think the thinning and method may be a little different for that.
Goody what is your goal with this car right now. Just to get some primer on it so it is one color and won't rust or are you going after a nice smooth surface like Exit1965 got.
If you want smooth and something that is going to last for awhile you need to go get some actual enamel like Primerduster and I used. The flat enamel ends up coming out looking like primer but is going to actually give you some water resistance/durability. Also I don't know about types of primer but that kind you got looks wrong to me. It may still work but just by the name it looks wrong.
If you are not going for that buffed out smooth surface just do your sanding and scuffing with scotch brite pads, maybe use a can of the spray primer for now to hide the steel and then get a gallon of the flat enamel and do the whole car when you are ready.
Todd

Attached picture 2390976-100_1416(Large).JPG
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 07:56 PM

guys, i can honestly 100% say your wasting your time with primer, you really don't need to use it at all with this paint, your only creating more work, and it is totally unnessessary. plus i've never used primer with this paint so it is uncharted teritory. i'll repeat myself and quote off the can "you can paint over bare metal, rusted metal, wood, fiberglass, dogs, cats, some specious of exotic african birds, gerbils, hamsters, blankets....(only a few animals were harmed testing this product!!!)
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 08:00 PM

Quote:

Hey Martin,
You make it sound pretty easy, I'll have to get you to come over and do my T/A!
lol
your buddy,
Karl




Hey Karl, look what the cat dragged in!!! honestly wetsanding is totally overated. but it takes paitence. if you go really really slowly, using the finest grit paper like a 2000 on your car, and buff and polish every step you take, then you would end up with a perfect paint job. i've seen your T/A, and that paint is very restorable, just take your time, expirement in a hidden area like the trunk lid bottom. you'll save a pile of money doing it yourself. oh and don't be a stranger, keep in touch
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 10:37 PM

I was outside looking at the test area in various angles and decided to try an impromptu scratch test using my fingernail.



It was pretty easy to scrape the paint off using my thumbnail. A bit too easy if you ask me. I can't imagine how it would take a door slamming into it or a rock hitting it. I'm not sure what the problem is. Lowes sells the "professional" line in an almond color.. I'll have to try that. Granted if nothing hard comes in contact with it, it would be fine, but to think that a fingernail can scrape it off is a bit unnerving.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 10:48 PM

just did some more scratching, and it scrapes away from bare metal, old paint, and rattlecan primer. It scrapes all the way to the old surface; I am curious if using their primer underneath it would help this. Or maybe more coats of this thinned enamel.. I think this is an adherence problem though.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 10:49 PM

that's wierd, but i have to say you might want to wait a bit and let it dry really good, it does tend to "harden" over time, but i can say that i can't even scratch a small spec off my tire!!! perhaps you wetsanded too fine between coats? maybe when you prepped the pannel it was also too fine/smooth? how many layers are you scratching off? i find my paint on both cars very scratch resistant. there's no way i could scratch the paint with my finger nail no matter how hard i try (and i just did on the bottom of the trunk lid!!) but then again i can't comment on how it scratches off after reciently painting.
Posted By: Mobarge

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 11:12 PM

I just laid down the first two coats on my Satellite hood. Goes on pretty smoothly -- I think I'm a bit watery on the consistency, but overall, you can see how this can work.

I'm using Rustoleum "Safety Yellow" (which is pretty close to GY3 if you ask me), and it's "interesting." We'll see in the next few hours.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 11:25 PM

Quote:

that's wierd, but i have to say you might want to wait a bit and let it dry really good, it does tend to "harden" over time, but i can say that i can't even scratch a small spec off my tire!!! perhaps you wetsanded too fine between coats? maybe when you prepped the pannel it was also too fine/smooth? how many layers are you scratching off? i find my paint on both cars very scratch resistant. there's no way i could scratch the paint with my finger nail no matter how hard i try (and i just did on the bottom of the trunk lid!!) but then again i can't comment on how it scratches off after reciently painting.




It went through all the way to the old surface (I scraped off a part that I knew was bare metal and that scraped off too).

The surface wasn't sanded very smooth at all, just with either 150 or 220. Maybe I should have let it dry more, but it's been nearly a week.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/12/06 11:36 PM

I think you guys are all going to find the same thing with the rustoleum bonding and being easily scraped off. Problem is the chemical makeup of the tremclad is different. I have seen two different replies from the tech support at Rustoleum and they do not say it is the same paint only similar. This goes to show that it indeed could be very different. Not only that but rustoleum has no mineral spirits in it. Therefore as the label states it should be thinned with acetone. Mineral spirits being introduced to the chemical compound of a non mineral spirits based paint will alter it adversly. I think before we all go painting out cars with this product we shoudl do some more research. TSC Tractor Supply Company sell a rust enamel that is mineral spirits based. They offer several colors and it is about 26 dollars a gallon. The tractor implement paint they also sell that is made by valspar comes in quite a few colors. I think this may be a viable alternative for us stateside guys. That being said is anyone capable of buying a gallon or two of tremclad and shipping them stateside sometime in the future. Using rustoleum is definatly, at best, uncharted territory as far as success goes.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 12:05 AM

i agree with toplessz, i can't vouch for the rustoleum, but i can say the tremclad is awesome stuff, i've hit my hood a thousand times taking out the hood pins, there's hair line scratches from that but i can say that it is tough stuff. from what i can see and from what i've read, the rustoleum is the same stuff as the tremclad. i did a test by going to the canadian rustoleum site and choosed the metal option and it gives you the paint to use, and they clicked on the us flag and did the same thing and that paint that exit1965 used came up for the usa rustoleium paint. i really just think that you should let it "cure" and then test, like i said i did'nt do a scratch test until today, and that is 4 months after i painted it so i can't speak for how it is when you just painted it a week ago. the stuff on my car is impossible to scratch with my fingernail.
Posted By: Blackwidow69

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 12:32 AM

I guess I should have checked this sooner but what I used was actually the professional version of the rustoleum. I attached the photo of the 2 products I used. I know 69charger says you do not need primer but I did my before this thread and used this spray stuff anywhere I sanded to metal. I never tried the regular rustoleum on this job but I have used it in the past. Lately I have only used the professional stuff in the spray cans because it dries much quicker so that is just what I grabbed when I picked up the gallon of flat black. Mine is extremely hard and the can says you thin with mineral spirits. I used the low odor mineral spirits for mine. To be purely scientific we now need Exit1965 to go buy some of the professional stuff and try it again using all the same steps! Sorry I did not check sooner but maybe our professional version is more like the Tremclad.
Todd

Attached picture 2392237-100_1710(Large).JPG
Posted By: MNobody

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 01:02 AM

On your inquiry the Tremclad Rust Paint is only sold in Canada.

Mark Roberts
Rust - Oleum Consumer Brands Canada
Technical Support Team Leader
(416) 467 2603 Direct
1-800-387-9879 ext.2603
Fax 1-800-363-0665
mroberts@rustoleum.ca


here's the reply i got, i havn't called yet but they might ship the tremclad who know's.
Posted By: WilliamHall

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 01:10 AM

For whatever this is worth, I switched from using the standard rustoleum to the professional version because the standard scratched way too easily. The professional, in a can, is about $2 more. This was for general paint use though, and not painting a car.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 02:12 AM

Topless & Blackwidow - great info. I guess the alternative would be to thin the cheap rustoleum with acetone or get the professional stuff and keep using mineral spirits.

Since my color, almond, comes in proffessional I'll try that and use the mineral spirits I already have.

69charger- does your tremclad mention anything about what to thin with, acetone, mineral spirits or?

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 02:20 AM

oh, blackwidow - did you use mineral spirits to thin?
Posted By: Blackwidow69

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 02:21 AM

As Topless has mentioned they do appear to be different products. Even the professional paint I used specifically says Oil-based enamel but from the Canadian website is looks like Tremclad is alkyd-based enamel. And reading the description of the two it sounds like the Tremclad is even a better product than the professional Rustoleum. Tremclad mentions bonding with rust and other things. Now the professional rustoleum does say thin with mineral spirits and on my car is very hard but us guys in the states may not get as good a result as 69charger. Looks like someone needs to make a little border run!
Todd
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 02:30 AM

On further inspection, the cheap rustoleum can says thin "with mineral spirits or acetone"........
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 02:31 AM

It was mentioned in a post above about implement enamel. That should work pretty well and is usually pretty reasonbly priced. Color choise may be real limited though. John deere green, JI Case yellow or old Case orange, IH red, Oliver olive.
Posted By: Blackwidow69

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 02:33 AM

Low odor mineral spirits for me. The professional line says you can thin up to 1.5 pints of mineral spirits per gallon.
And in the name of science I decided to see how tough my paint was last night by bashing my door with the propane tank for my garage heater. Here you can see the damage. It actually popped the door panel in and then it popped back out. Leaving me a nice pea sized paint chunk on the ground. Now as you can see the damage went all the way to metal and this is in an area where my original B5 paint was still on the door. My car has original paint, yellow epoxy primer, black epoxy primer and now 4 or more layers of professional rustoleum. Not really any damage to just the rustoleum so too me it looks like the professional rustoleum is about as tough as the original paint. Of course my disclaimer is I am not a paint guy.
Todd

Attached picture 2392647-100_1713(Large).JPG
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 02:50 AM

Looks like OEM orange peal too. I couldn't help myself. Sorry. You should see some my home oaint jobs when I started and probably worse no cause it has been so long.
Posted By: Blackwidow69

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 02:56 AM

That photo does make it look pretty bad! But I was only going for the primered look that is why I used flat. I did wet sand between coats but not to remove all orange peel and I did only a little sanding of the final coat to get rid of roller marks. I was actually using some fine grit steel wool to blend it all together as well as anything else I had laying around at the end.
Todd
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 02:56 AM

The "industrial stuff" (not "professional") says it's akalyd enamel. I know it was mentioned before..

http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=219&SBL=2&ddic=6

Don't see any colors I like but I wonder if this akalyd is the difference in toughness.

edit: this does say bases are available to be tinted.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 03:06 AM

Quote:

The "industrial stuff" (not "professional") says it's akalyd enamel. I know it was mentioned before..

http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=219&SBL=2&ddic=6

Don't see any colors I like but I wonder if this akalyd is the difference in toughness.

edit: this does say bases are available to be tinted.





So im supposed to get the 'industrial' paint over the professional eh?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 03:10 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The "industrial stuff" (not "professional") says it's akalyd enamel. I know it was mentioned before..

http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=219&SBL=2&ddic=6

Don't see any colors I like but I wonder if this akalyd is the difference in toughness.

edit: this does say bases are available to be tinted.





So im supposed to get the 'industrial' paint over the professional eh?




It looks like that to me. One of the Kelly Moore's in my area said they carried the full rustoleum line. I am wondering of the composition of the Valspar mentioned above at Lowes... time to do some googling.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 03:15 AM

Bingo, maybe:
http://www.valspar.com/val/manufacturing/liquid.jsp

Not that I know what any of these different paint types are, but if we assume that this list is of all their industrial liquid product, and they do not mention an "enamel", does that mean the industrial enamel at lowes was the akalyd?

Posted By: Blackwidow69

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 03:30 AM

I don't know but you would think anything tough enough for lawn mowers and buses has to be tough enough for our cars and those certainly have some shine to them. Of course they are probably expensive 2 part paints that have to be sprayed!!
Todd
Posted By: 71vert340

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 05:02 AM

Back when this post first started I mentioned I had used the Rustoleum gloss enamel on my Jeep CJ and a Bonco II. I just went out to check the type of Rustoleum I used and it was the standard gloss oil based Regal Red. I thinned it with mineral spirits but sprayed it on. That is hard paint. I tried to scratch it with a fingernail-no way-and then I keyed it. The key left a scratch but not all the way thru the paint-it will buff out. I didn't throw a rock at the Jeep-my neighbors might think I'd lost lost my mind but that stuff is hard. It touches up easily, that's why I used it on my off road CJ. I did spot primer the Jeep and used an HVLP sprayer in the interest of time, but it shouldn't make a difference, I put 3 coats on it and it took 1 1/2 quarts to paint the CJ. Some was lost to spraying. Just my experience in painting a vehicle with Rustoleum. By the way, the paint's been on the Jeep since last May and it sits outside in all weather.
Posted By: Mobarge

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 06:01 AM

Just did coats 3 and 4, after wet sanding. Looks pretty good. I think I am going to wait longer before the next wet sand, since the paint checked up in places after the first wet sand.

I'm using Rustoleum professional "Safety Yellow"

By the way, a little trick to get those little bubbles out -- blow gently on the paint and it pops them.

Will post pics after the final coat and polish.
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 06:04 AM

anyone use this paint method on a 600 hp car that wants to twist itself in half ? wonder if the paint will stick ?
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 06:06 AM

Now at the 8th page for me im wayy confused on what to use and what not to use. I just want a good looking primer paint job. Not primer looking because ill screw that up Me & Paint do NOT get along

I returned that primer at lowes, im considering going and getting it again and just trying it before i just spray bomb the whole thing primer and have those little lines in it. (any method of sanding remove those lines btw?)
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 12:42 PM

Quote:

Now at the 8th page for me im wayy confused on what to use and what not to use. I just want a good looking primer paint job. Not primer looking because ill screw that up Me & Paint do NOT get along

I returned that primer at lowes, im considering going and getting it again and just trying it before i just spray bomb the whole thing primer and have those little lines in it. (any method of sanding remove those lines btw?)




go to ebay and look up auto paint it's cheap and you don't have to worry about if it will harden or not.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 12:53 PM

This guy is on my favorite sellers list.

http://stores.ebay.com/Auto-Paint
Posted By: 70Coronet500Vert

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/13/06 01:47 PM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 02:35 PM

Quote:

Topless & Blackwidow - great info. I guess the alternative would be to thin the cheap rustoleum with acetone or get the professional stuff and keep using mineral spirits.

Since my color, almond, comes in proffessional I'll try that and use the mineral spirits I already have.

69charger- does your tremclad mention anything about what to thin with, acetone, mineral spirits or?






it says on the can to thin and clean with varsol or mineral spirits, no mention of acetone.
Posted By: Anonymous

Check This Out!! - 02/13/06 03:12 PM

Ok, how about this for the US version?
"Special polyamide-modified alkyd for maximum performance."

http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=219&SBL=2

The Dunes Tan looks real close to my Rampage color.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Check This Out!! - 02/13/06 03:21 PM

Scratch that vendor!

This one is even cheaper!

http://dragosupply.com/drago/servlet/CyberVendor/category/G4501296/catalog/group.jsp/
Posted By: Clair_Davis

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 03:58 PM

Valspar makes House Of Kolor paints? Neato...

They also make some powder coatings.

But that's not what we're talking about here. The stuff I saw at Lowe's only seemed to come in 29-oz cans, clear and pastel bases that NEEDED tinting. I can't find it on Lowe's web site, but it was called "Valspar Anti-Rust Oil Based Enamel". OK, upon Googling, I found this... Looks like they have an industrial line that comes in "many colors" in gallon quantities. I wonder what it takes to get that stuff?

Clair
Posted By: BSharp

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/13/06 04:43 PM

Here's a polyurethane Rust-oleum that uses a hardener. Since it's catalyzed, I wonder if you could roll it on full-strength and wet-sand and buff after just one or two coats?
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 02/13/06 10:07 PM

Post deleted by Ira
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 01:08 AM

I just got off the phone with a local Kelly Moore that carries the industrial line of Rustoleum (they are the only KM in Sacramento that carries that line).

edited: they only sell water based stuff in CA now, which from a bit of googling I found is probably not going to work well.

Looks like it will be rustoleum "professional" from lowes..
Posted By: Blackwidow69

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 01:30 AM

It may not just be California either. I tried to get some oil based semi gloss paint for the trim in my house from Lowe's and the paint gal said they are getting rid of all their oil based stuff. Strangely enough it is Olympic Fasthide Alkyd based semi-gloss enamel. Went on and acts just like the Porter oil based enamel we were using but I think the water based stuff is what everyone is going to. Exit1965 did the guy say they could not even get the professional rustoleum anymore. I still think that is our best bet in the states.
Todd

Sorry didn't see your last line there!
Posted By: matts69Dart

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 01:50 AM

I am sort of ignorant when it comes to automotive paint, so I was wondering something. Is regular auto paint, PPG, etc., oil-based or alkyd based? Thanks all for some great info. Being on a very tight budget, I am a poor school teacher, this has really given me hope of ever getting my Dart painted. As you can see from the pic, primer seems to be my favorite color right now. My wife is from Nova Scotia, so maybe I can get her mom and dad to send me a gallon of Tremclad. My birthday is coming up. Hmmm........Matt
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 02:01 AM

there does appear to be this stuff which is all US legal apparently:
http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=495&SBL=2

the guy didn't mention it so i'll have to ask him about it specifically.
Posted By: Blackwidow69

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 02:03 AM

Pretty ignorant on auto paint here as well. I just did a search on the net and came up with this brief history. As you can see alkyd enamels are actually mentioned but from the 1930's!!


Synthetic Enamel: In the mid 1930's, a new and completely different type of paint was developed, the alkyd or synthetic enamels. It proved to have superior qualities in film strength, adhesion, luster, flexibility and durability over all previous paints. The resin base was developed from the reaction between phthalic anhydride and glycerin, with gums, oils and plasticizers added during the manufacturing process a drying oil such as linseed, a polyhydric alcohol, such as glycerine, and a dibasic acid, such as Phthalic Anhydride. It dries by solvent evaporation, like the lacquer paints, but the resin remains soft and sticky when no solvents are present. It cures to a hard finish by absorption of oxygen from the air. The curing process can be accelerated by heat, and several methods of baking enamel were developed. Unlike lacquer, when dry, it needs no polishing to produce a high luster finish. Acrylic Lacquer: As time passed, chemists developed a substitute for nitrocellulose lacquer, using an acrylic resin as a base. The resins used in acrylic lacquer tend to be slightly brittle. This deficiency is overcome by the use of a plasticizer ( a liquid that is a solvent for these resins and softens them slightly). A cellulosic resin is any resin derived from cellulose (pure cotton). Acrylic lacquer was used extensively by General Motors. Acrylic Enamel: During the late 1960's and early 1970's, technology brought on the development of acrylic enamel, which was harder and more durable. Chemically, it is a cousin to synthetic enamel, but is modified with acrylic resin, and is not soft and sticky with no solvents present. It cures further with the absorption of oxygen from the air. Unlike the lacquers, which remain soluble in solvents, the enamel family is insoluble in solvent when cured. An acrylic resin is chemically any polymer whose basic monomers are chemical derivatives of acrylic acid. Polyurethane Enamel: In the mid 1970's, polyurethane enamel was developed to withstand the severe stress of high speed airplane surfaces, which are subject to rapid temperature changes and flexing. This paint was much more durable than the acrylic enamels. Acrylic Urethane Enamel: Acrylic urethane enamels were developed to withstand environmental elements, such as acid rain and ultra violet rays. It is the most durable paint to date.

Don't see anything about oil based enamel but doesn't mean it is not one of these with a different name. Anyway acrylic enamel and urethane enamel are what you can buy cheap on ebay and spray yourself as a single stage paint.
Todd
Posted By: dartgame

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 03:23 AM

This is a really interesting post.......I've been loosely following this thing since it started.

The last post sparked my chemistry side (what I do for a living) so I felt like its time for me to add some additional complexity to the discussion!!! Haha.

Alkyds as noted in the last post are old as the hills chemistry. Here's my .02 worth: Alkyds have free hydroxyl groups, which offer the possibility of crosslinking them using IPDI and HDI (Isophorone Diisocyanate and hexane diisocyanate) trimer(s), these isocyanates are usually used in most modern 2k clears urethane along with acrylic polyols as the main resin.

Problem is... one has to have an idea of how much isocyanate to add to the alkyd. Unless you can get a precise recommendation from the alkyd maker on how much of these isocyanates to add, I dont suggest doing this. There is a chemical balance that should be obeyed called stochiometry, this is the balance between the isocyanate and the free hydroxyls in the paint. Unless you match these fairly closely you can create alot of problems, bubbling peeling etc. However, if you are successful you will have created a urethane modified alkyd car paint. Something that is commonly used in 3rd world car repair, either that or your local Earl Scheibs..haha. Anyway keep in mind that if you do add isocyanates to your paint, the pot life (or application time before hardening) will be reduced to several hours regardless of whether the paint is closed can or open.

What will really annoy everyone about car paint (or any paint for that matter) is how cheap the raw materials are, and how bad the public gets gouged. Don't ask.

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 05:02 AM

I thought back, and I thought I could have done enough wrong with my first test to have my paint turn out as easily scratchable as it was. On my test area, I preped the surface with 150 then dusted with a rag, and I used water to clean the foam roller (not a good idea, and not fun). It could be I had dust left on the surface, and/or got some water mixed in with the paint mixture as I applied it (since I reused a roller that had some water hiding in it).

so I'm trying it again using the same stuff, but this time I'm using only mineral spirits to clean the roller, and I sanded the surface with 80, then 240, then cleaned it with mineral spirits and a rag and let it dry.

So I've just applied the first coat..and I'll scratch test each coat until I'm done.

I wonder how the "clear" rustoleum would do, if applied full strength (or thinned?) over a 6 coats of thinned color (+ wetsanding). It might help a bit with gloss or add to scratch resistance.

Posted By: Faust

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 05:03 AM

Has anyone looked into the possiblity of ordering the Tremclad from Canada? Seems to me that is the obvious solution. I mentioned it to my local paint guy, he suggested Canadian paint would not be importable, high VOC's or something. Could be he was just "playing smart".
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 05:07 AM

next time I go see my bro in buffalo, I might have to take a ride. Think they would hassle me at the border for a gallon of paint?
Posted By: ksj

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 05:11 AM

They tried to hassle my Grandma with her 70 year old horse blanket.She was 83 at the time.Grandpa said if you can get it from her you are a bigger man than me.I think you can make it.-Don
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 10:57 AM

Hey if someone wants to try it I can run down to Canadian Tire and buy a one quart of tremclad and ship it to you. I can "creatively" package it so it gets thru the border, lol. Lol, shipping a full gallon of it would cost some $$$ though.
Posted By: 13ChargerR/T AWD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 02:50 PM

Quote:

Can someone refer me to a shop or individual who would do a decent job(minor body work) and spray my '69 GTX on a 3-$4,000.00 budget that I have to hold to? Am I way out of line to think someone would do it for this amount? I live approx. 1 hr. north of Detroit. If anyone could help me out I'd really appreciate it in a BIG WAY!! Please p.m. me or call 810-392-3781 Sincerely, Randy Borawski




Noe im sorry I can't refer you to a shop BUT you are NOT way out of line asking that...BUT it will probably take all of that depending on the body work and the prep you can do. Also ask a local Mopar club or go to a car show make some friends and ask them. I got my RoadRunner painted by a guy that was just opening his shop. I think I was his first real Muscle Car paint job. My car had previously been taken to bare metal primered and the panels that neded replacing(both quarters both inner/outer rockers,lower fender patches,door patch) so it was pretty much "ready".

He went back over took it back down to primer smoothed it out where needed(id go over on my days off and help remove trim,bumpers,etc). He painted it B3 blue base clear we put all the trim back on and he charged me $1000 to paint it. The Dart Sport is definately not a "pro" job but its a decent paint job for a "home done" one and that cost about $800-1000 in parts/tools/paint but was also not done in a shop.

When I was getting the RoadRunner painted the first time(different guy from above) for taking it down to bare metal, doing minor body work smoothing it back out painting it I was quoted
$3500-4000. Unfortunately you find stuff more wrong than you may think when you get to the bare metal stage. I found instead of minor body work I needed 2 quartters/rockers/fenderpatches etc so it put the job out of my $$$ range for that time.

BUT for the original job I still have the estimate. it was

1.Take car down to bare metal: remove doors,trunk lid,hood,trim,bumpers,etc for painting $1000

2. Prep car for paint: listed the ammount of cut off wheels, sand paper, primer,filler etc that they used and was very detailed(would say stuff like 3 wire wheels,7 sheets of 800 grit paper ..so you really knew what they were using) this included getting it to the state where it was ready to lay down the paint so all the boarding. $1500

3.Paint car: this included all materials they used to paint the car and then wet sand it when done it was a base clear and was going to be a dark blue. $1000

4.Reassemble after paint: this was to put everything back to where it was EXCEPT I told them to get everything on to make it road worthy and id do the small trim parts myself I don't know if id really save myself any $$ by putting the grill,door trim,belt mouldings,etc back on but I thought it would give me something to do and learn about so they said $500

total $4000 so yeah IF everything had been good under the primer when I was getting it done no quarters rockers etc id have had a good paint job for $4000.

You will NOT get this price from a major restoration shop or from a shop that does "only" show car paint jobs thats that stuff where guys quote $10,000+ but YES IMO if you look around and make some Mopar friends you can get a decent job for what your asking.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 04:07 PM

Quote:

I thought back, and I thought I could have done enough wrong with my first test to have my paint turn out as easily scratchable as it was. On my test area, I preped the surface with 150 then dusted with a rag, and I used water to clean the foam roller (not a good idea, and not fun). It could be I had dust left on the surface, and/or got some water mixed in with the paint mixture as I applied it (since I reused a roller that had some water hiding in it).

so I'm trying it again using the same stuff, but this time I'm using only mineral spirits to clean the roller, and I sanded the surface with 80, then 240, then cleaned it with mineral spirits and a rag and let it dry.

So I've just applied the first coat..and I'll scratch test each coat until I'm done.

I wonder how the "clear" rustoleum would do, if applied full strength (or thinned?) over a 6 coats of thinned color (+ wetsanding). It might help a bit with gloss or add to scratch resistance.






well i can tell you this, after prepping the car i do clean the car with a rag soaked in mineral spirits because it does a good job removing old wax, and other deposits that could hamper the adhesion of the new paint. i can say that i did notice now that i think about it that when i reassembled the car the paint was still quite soft, where in some spots if for example if i mounted a mirror it would "dent" the paint. but this was on my beetle that i did in the dead of winter. now, the paint is rock hard, but shortly after it was done it was'nt. it does need time to cure, it takes about a month to harden i would guess, but that depends on the temperature, how much mineral spirits, ect...since the paint does "solvent dry", which is why i used that paint in the first place. i can say that despite all this, the paint is perfectly stable to be wetsanded overnight, and buffed the next day after application and even waxed, even though the paint is'nt completely "hard" it seems totally inert and is not effected by waxing before it is totally "cured". i only know this because i've painted like 5 cars this way and never had a problem. as for using the "clear" coat, i know it's made by the same company, and specifically designed to be used over this paint, but i think once you apply it, the workability of the paint ends there. besides i did try a fender a long time ago with the clear coat and did'nt really notice a difference in the end product, it was no more "shiny" that the part with just the paint. also like i said, if you get a scratch later, and you have a clear coat it would be really hard to touch it up and then wetsand and polish it out. trust me i had to do this several times when i got scratches, and when people open doors on my car in a parking lot. i've become so good at it that i could repair a chip right thru the paint and you'd never know where it was. when you finish with just the paint, at anytime down the road if it ever gets dull, or scratched, all you do is buff and polish and the paint once again is new.
i'm not a sciencetist, but i do know this stuff works and is extreemly durable. remember that by the time you get the rest of the car done, and all together that paint will be hard. i was originally told to use this paint by a body shop that was painting my 1968 mustang and under the vinyl roof they gave me the option of painting with some special ppg stuff that would cost me an extra $200, or just use rust paint. it was a "old timer" biker dude that was painting my car and he said the new tremclad (at the time about 13yrs ago) was a acrylic enamel or something like that, he said it is the same stuff as any other and i should just use that and save some $$$. i agreed and it was only a few years later when i had to paint my 85 honda crx, that my wife said lets just paint it using a roller, at the time i was broke, and my car looked like crap with the original paint that was really bad. in one day i rollered the car with my wifes help at my cottage, it was white, and we painted it black, no wetsanding nothing , and the car looked great, drove it for another 3 yrs on that paint job and it looked awesome.

exit1965- honestly if your happy with your test pannel results, based on only apperance, shine, and think you could pull off doing the whole car the same way, i guarantee that you will like the end result, you seemed to pull off a good system and i have confidence that you can do a really good job. don't be worried about the paint and how it chips and scratches now only a week after painting it, trust me it gets rock hard, "i'm not only the president, i'm also a client"
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 04:54 PM

69charger - I think you're right, I need to let it set for awhile before I try to scratch test it, and I was happy with the look that it had and the ease of application.

The most convenient option is to switch to the "professional" line at Lowes to get even better scratch resistance (supposedly) without going to an industrial type. I was looking at a can of the professional stuff the other day, and it says to thin with Acetone.. didn't mention mineral spirits.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 05:04 PM

Quote:

69charger - I think you're right, I need to let it set for awhile before I try to scratch test it, and I was happy with the look that it had and the ease of application.

The most convenient option is to switch to the "professional" line at Lowes to get even better scratch resistance (supposedly) without going to an industrial type. I was looking at a can of the professional stuff the other day, and it says to thin with Acetone.. didn't mention mineral spirits.




honestly i would stick with the paint your using, it's what i know works. i'm almost 100% sure that your using the same stuff i used (ie. tremclad) the professional stuff is thinned with acetone, and i think it is very different paint. trust me, this paint is rock hard when fully cured, i would say it is at least 3 times more scratch resistant than any modern car that has a base/clear paint job. like on my 2002 mustang gt, you could put a empty box on it and slide it scratching the car. i know you might doubt me but i can honestly say it is really tough. stick with what is working, if your happy with it just do it, a few months later, maybe faster if it's hot where u are and if you leave it in the sun alot, you will be extreemly impressed with how hard the paint gets. even if you use the paint straight out of the can, like i have on a motor cycle tank, it does stay "soft" longer, but eventually hardens the same, only it takes longer. do the car, by the time you put it all back together and have it on the road the paint will be fully cured, stick with the paint your'e using.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 05:13 PM

Quote:



honestly i would stick with the paint your using, it's what i know works. i'm almost 100% sure that your using the same stuff i used (ie. tremclad) the professional stuff is thinned with acetone, and i think it is very different paint. trust me, this paint is rock hard when fully cured, i would say it is at least 3 times more scratch resistant than any modern car that has a base/clear paint job. like on my 2002 mustang gt, you could put a empty box on it and slide it scratching the car. i know you might doubt me but i can honestly say it is really tough. stick with what is working, if your happy with it just do it, a few months later, maybe faster if it's hot where u are and if you leave it in the sun alot, you will be extreemly impressed with how hard the paint gets. even if you use the paint straight out of the can, like i have on a motor cycle tank, it does stay "soft" longer, but eventually hardens the same, only it takes longer. do the car, by the time you put it all back together and have it on the road the paint will be fully cured, stick with the paint your'e using.





You're the man when it comes to this, and what you suggest makes sense to me. The stuff I used I was happy how it looked and how it went on.. I will do the same process on my new test area then stick it outside in the sun for awhile. I need plenty of time to do bodywork, welding and grinding anyways so I can wait a bit.

Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 05:20 PM

Quote:


You're the man when it comes to this, and what you suggest makes sense to me. The stuff I used I was happy how it looked and how it went on.. I will do the same process on my new test area then stick it outside in the sun for awhile. I need plenty of time to do bodywork, welding and grinding anyways so I can wait a bit.






i'd just get on the body work so your car could be done. faster you paint your car, the faster your crusin
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 07:45 PM

Exit1965- did yo ever mention the type of paint you used?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 08:14 PM

I did- I used the cheap Rustoleum enamel "rust fighter", not the "professional".
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 09:24 PM

a non member emailed me this:

Thank-you for contacting Rust-Oleum Consumer Brands Canada
The Rustoleum Stop Rust and the Tremclad are both about the same products, They are both Alkyd oil based products However the Stop Rust is not sold in Canada and the Tremclad is not sold in the United States.

You will not find the colour you are looking for in Canadian retailers.
If you have any other questions please contact us at 1-800-387-9879.

Regards,
Rust-Oleum Canada Technical Support"

Thanks again
~Steve

so i think EXIT1965 is using the same paint as i did. that should clear it all up rust fighter and stop rust are the same product, just labeled differently in different states. so use the stop rust/rust fighter if you want the equivelant paint that i used; tremclad
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 10:09 PM

Quote:

a non member emailed me this:

Thank-you for contacting Rust-Oleum Consumer Brands Canada
The Rustoleum Stop Rust and the Tremclad are both about the same products, They are both Alkyd oil based products However the Stop Rust is not sold in Canada and the Tremclad is not sold in the United States.

You will not find the colour you are looking for in Canadian retailers.
If you have any other questions please contact us at 1-800-387-9879.

Regards,
Rust-Oleum Canada Technical Support"

Thanks again
~Steve

so i think EXIT1965 is using the same paint as i did. that should clear it all up rust fighter and stop rust are the same product, just labeled differently in different states. so use the stop rust/rust fighter if you want the equivelant paint that i used; tremclad




I talked with Rustoleum tech support a bit earlier. I got only fuzzy answers. I asked what the difference between the "professional" and not was, and she told me at first that the professional is available in gallons and dried quicker. I asked if the "dried quicker" applied to the non-spray version and she said yes. She didn't mention anything about durability until I asked her, then she said "the professional is for more industrial applications so the durability is better". talk about fuzzy. it did sound nice though.

She also said that despite the "professional" can not mentioining mineral spirits, they test with both acetone and mineral spirits so min spirits should be fine.

So I think, since I'm a bit of a ways off of painting yet, I'll try the process with the professional stuff and mineral spirits. The price difference is only about $1.20 for the smaller container and if it is any more durable that will be welcomed and will obviously be worth the price difference. I will find out if it will shine like the cheaper stuff did, and the durability can (should) only be better.

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/14/06 10:32 PM

One thing to add about scratch resistance. I used the regular tremclad I had laying around, in an almondy color similar to what exit1965 used. I used this about two years ago on my Satellite, but I did it to coat the inside of the floors. The color's under the rug so I don't see it, but I used it because the floors had some surface rust starting. Used a wire wheel to take it off then tremcladed it. I can speak about the cure time on that one. During the day I left the windows open and often the doors open as well. After a week like that if I closed up the windows/doors for a hour or so, the interior would still smell like paint. Threw my rug in and re assembeled my interior. It still smelled like a hint of paint for the next several weeks, but then was gone. And I noticed that before I put the rug back in, which was at the one week mark, the paint was still soft feeling. Not tacky, but soft. Granted, I did put the paint on straight with no watering down, but I can for sure say from my experience that it takes at least a good month to fully cure.
Posted By: Blackwidow69

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 02:36 AM

Exit1965, I have to say that it is really strange about the Acetone and mineral spirits thing. I have two cans of the professional here in my house. The flat black from just last fall and they both say to thin with Rustoleum thiner and cleaner or mineral spirts. And do not thin with gasoline, lacquer thinner, turpentine etc.
I also read the label closer and there is a small block on the side labeled NJ and PA right to know. And guess what it says the professional line has in it-Alkyd Resin. While right on the front it says oil based so it appears that oil based can also be alkyd based and that our products are probably similar to the Tremclad. Anyway no pressure but we are awaiting your test panel with the professional line to see if there is a difference.
Todd
Posted By: mopowered

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 03:20 AM

Am very excited myself about this thread. Has to be one of my most-watched threads here on Moparts. I've made arrangements to go look at / purchase a '66 Coronet 440 tomorrow which I'm planning to roll the entire car in gloss black Rustoleum. I've already purchased a quart at Home-Depot and plan to do the floorpans first to check results. My can is white w/black and red lettering that has "RUST-OLEUM" and "STOPS RUST" both trademark logos right on the front w/the words "PROTECTIVE ENAMEL" just under those logos. Further down are "Superior Durability", "Premium Quality", and "OIL-BASED". On the back it says to thin with mineral spirits or acetone and to clean brush, ROLLER and other tools with mineral spirits.

If everything works out w/my floorboard tests - I'll be picking up a few gallons in several different colors just in case the supply drys up like was mentioned in some locales.

Thanks again for the tips - and pictures of my new Coronet will be coming soon!
Posted By: WilliamHall

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 04:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

a non member emailed me this:

Thank-you for contacting Rust-Oleum Consumer Brands Canada
The Rustoleum Stop Rust and the Tremclad are both about the same products, They are both Alkyd oil based products However the Stop Rust is not sold in Canada and the Tremclad is not sold in the United States.

You will not find the colour you are looking for in Canadian retailers.
If you have any other questions please contact us at 1-800-387-9879.

Regards,
Rust-Oleum Canada Technical Support"

Thanks again
~Steve

so i think EXIT1965 is using the same paint as i did. that should clear it all up rust fighter and stop rust are the same product, just labeled differently in different states. so use the stop rust/rust fighter if you want the equivelant paint that i used; tremclad




I talked with Rustoleum tech support a bit earlier. I got only fuzzy answers. I asked what the difference between the "professional" and not was, and she told me at first that the professional is available in gallons and dried quicker. I asked if the "dried quicker" applied to the non-spray version and she said yes. She didn't mention anything about durability until I asked her, then she said "the professional is for more industrial applications so the durability is better". talk about fuzzy. it did sound nice though.

She also said that despite the "professional" can not mentioining mineral spirits, they test with both acetone and mineral spirits so min spirits should be fine.

So I think, since I'm a bit of a ways off of painting yet, I'll try the process with the professional stuff and mineral spirits. The price difference is only about $1.20 for the smaller container and if it is any more durable that will be welcomed and will obviously be worth the price difference. I will find out if it will shine like the cheaper stuff did, and the durability can (should) only be better.






I know I said this before but the professional version of Rustoleum is far more durable than the standard. I used it from a spray can. I hated the standard version because of its lack of durability, and found myself painting things 2x and 3x. Now I spend the extra money, get the professional, and paint it 1x
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 05:06 AM

Quote:

Exit1965, I have to say that it is really strange about the Acetone and mineral spirits thing. I have two cans of the professional here in my house. The flat black from just last fall and they both say to thin with Rustoleum thiner and cleaner or mineral spirts. And do not thin with gasoline, lacquer thinner, turpentine etc.
I also read the label closer and there is a small block on the side labeled NJ and PA right to know. And guess what it says the professional line has in it-Alkyd Resin. While right on the front it says oil based so it appears that oil based can also be alkyd based and that our products are probably similar to the Tremclad. Anyway no pressure but we are awaiting your test panel with the professional line to see if there is a difference.
Todd




Yes I should have some results by the weekend sometime.

I bought the quart of professional today at lowes, V7570 almond (a number I cannot find anywhere online..). It says thinning not needed for brush or roller, if sprayed, thin up to 15% with acetone.

This one doesn't say anything about alkyd resin that I can find, it does say that "the product contains chemicals known to the state of calfornia to cause cancer..". I am guessing various states have various legal things written on the paint cans, I do wonder if the mixtures are all the same. This can says Max VOC 450 g/l.

William - glad to read that this professional stuff is more durable in your experience. Who knows, if it comes out nice we may be packing this stuff up and sending it to our friends in Canada.
Posted By: 5wndwcpe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 06:14 AM

My God, is this post still going on?
Posted By: roe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 06:22 AM

Is this post going to be in the Best of Moparts? IT really should be. Will someone please ask a mod.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 06:23 AM

Yeah it's still going on, and it's excellent! This is the true spirit of hot rodding, even if it is just paint.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 11:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Exit1965, I have to say that it is really strange about the Acetone and mineral spirits thing. I have two cans of the professional here in my house. The flat black from just last fall and they both say to thin with Rustoleum thiner and cleaner or mineral spirts. And do not thin with gasoline, lacquer thinner, turpentine etc.
I also read the label closer and there is a small block on the side labeled NJ and PA right to know. And guess what it says the professional line has in it-Alkyd Resin. While right on the front it says oil based so it appears that oil based can also be alkyd based and that our products are probably similar to the Tremclad. Anyway no pressure but we are awaiting your test panel with the professional line to see if there is a difference.
Todd




Yes I should have some results by the weekend sometime.

I bought the quart of professional today at lowes, V7570 almond (a number I cannot find anywhere online..). It says thinning not needed for brush or roller, if sprayed, thin up to 15% with acetone.

This one doesn't say anything about alkyd resin that I can find, it does say that "the product contains chemicals known to the state of calfornia to cause cancer..". I am guessing various states have various legal things written on the paint cans, I do wonder if the mixtures are all the same. This can says Max VOC 450 g/l.

William - glad to read that this professional stuff is more durable in your experience. Who knows, if it comes out nice we may be packing this stuff up and sending it to our friends in Canada.




You sure it's not 7770 ??

http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=48&SBL=1
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 01:11 PM

Have they gotten smart and put the fan type spray nozzle on the professional rattle cans? It makes spraying so much nicer. If they haven't I wonder why they don't. Some of the other companies do and it can't be a cost factor.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 01:21 PM

Quote:



You sure it's not 7770 ??

http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=48&SBL=1




Nope, the non professional stuff I was using was 7770. This can says V7570.

Here finally is the number 7570, but it's almond of the professional spray:
http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=47&SBL=1
Posted By: mopartial

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 03:51 PM

I have OMNI S/S enamel that I was planning (dreading) to spray. Could this be used as discussed here?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 04:07 PM

Quote:

I have OMNI S/S enamel that I was planning (dreading) to spray. Could this be used as discussed here?




to answer your question in a nutshell, NO, those S/S paints use primer, primer sealer, and topcoat color, and every stage requires using a reducer according to temperature and hudmidity conditions. you have to spray that stuff, it has a really small window to "flash" and needs to be sprayed. it would get really messy, really fast if you tried to roller it. you have to first prime with a compatable primer, then shoot the primer sealer, then within 10-30 mins depending on the reducer you use you have to shoot the color coat, either wait 10-30 mins, and if you miss the window something like 10 days. so the single stage paint process cannot be done this way, i have sprayed about 5 cars in total with single stage acrylic enamel with professional results in my garage. dust will be your worst enemy if you don't do it in a paint booth. some tips if your going to do it in your garage, wet the floor down before you paint, cover all your stuff in the garage you don't want over spray on, and i mean everything, make a blower system so that the room is positive pressure all the time, so air allways wants to go out of the garage and not in, also clean the surface alot with tack cloths. oh and wear a respirator, even with a high end charcol filtered resperator i was high like a kite, another reason to not do it. that's how i did it, hope that helps
Posted By: mopartial

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 04:19 PM

Thank you. I was afraid of that.
Posted By: Ira

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 08:31 PM

and for those who have been wondering if this thread has been saved, don't worry, it has
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 08:33 PM

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 08:49 PM

Quote:

and for those who have been wondering if this thread has been saved, don't worry, it has




This thread has apparently drawn many people over from other websites, so I don't see why it shouldn't be stickied as well- its definitely a hot topic..

Now back to paint talk.
Posted By: ksj

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 09:02 PM

Just how cold can it be to do this.The garage isnt heated but I want to do the kids truck.-Don
Posted By: C38coupe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 09:05 PM

Hello all, this has been a very interesting and informative thread to say the least.

Attached picture 2400040-dash3.JPG
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 09:08 PM

Quote:

Just how cold can it be to do this.The garage isnt heated but I want to do the kids truck.-Don




i painted the 1974 orange bug in my garage in january and it was about -20 celcus, really really damm cold. i had a electric 1500W heater and 2 1500W work lights, i was warm enough to work in a sweater, and the car came out perfect. just takes a bit longer to "cure" but the steps and times are the same.
Posted By: C38coupe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 09:35 PM

Heres a pic form my test piece, a very rusty dash form a 1948 Dodge Coupe. It worked out well, I followed the directions spelled out by Charger on this website. This method may be for you if you can relate to the following, love to drive your car as much as possible, don't want to take anxiety medication or park you car 3 miles from your destination,cause your afraid some thing might scratch it. Or you just plain worried about driving it and ruining your paint. Lets face it most of us want driver cars not trailer show queens. This has been a great informative thread and we should give Charger the thumbs up for him sharing his experience with us.
This paint is damn tough, I could not scrape the spill marks of the can after a few days, so I know its durable...........C38 Coupe

Attached picture 2400118-dash3.JPG
Posted By: mopork

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 10:23 PM

C38 that looks great, you just did that ?
Posted By: C38coupe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 10:44 PM

You bet, just did this on past weekend.It would have turned out even better,if I had more experience with wet sanding, an electric buffer unit and having the surface prepped better to begin with. The dash was pretty rusted/pitted and all I relly did was sand it with 80 and 150 grit and started painting. I am probably going to do my 1948 Coupe using this method, if it doesn't turn out I can always have it painted over by a pro..............C38coupe

Attached picture 2400249-dash5.JPG
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/15/06 11:19 PM

c38coupe - nice job, thanks for all the compliments. if i can help a few people out then i'm happy. i cannot explain how much better it would be if you polished it with a highspeed electric polisher. i used a 3600rpm electric 10" random orbit polisher i bought for $15 new, i cannot believe how nice you got it with just wetsanding, it only gets 1000% better with a polisher, good work if your happy with that finish, i could'nt believe how happy you would be after polishing
Posted By: roe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/16/06 12:37 AM

I'm still thinking that there may be a difference between the US Rustoleum and the Canadian Tremclad. C38coupe couldnt scrape his paint off after just a few days, but the US stuff was scraped off by a fingernail after a week of curing. What do you guys think?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/16/06 12:49 AM

It could be you need to use the industrial and not the professional.
I'll be ordering the Dunes Tan in the industrial line and try the bed of my Rampage. I do plan on using their Heavy Duty Rust Inhibitive Primer as well. I do however want to wait for warmer weather, not so much for the paint as me.

http://dragosupply.com/drago/servlet/CyberVendor/category/G4501296/catalog/group.jsp/
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/16/06 12:55 AM

Quote:

I'm still thinking that there may be a difference between the US Rustoleum and the Canadian Tremclad. C38coupe couldnt scrape his paint off after just a few days, but the US stuff was scraped off by a fingernail after a week of curing. What do you guys think?




I have some of that paint running down my can too, and I can scratch it off. Granted, it's not easy and I do have a strong fingernail, but I can do it. That said, I did some more scratching last night and it seems I have to work a little harder to scratch it. Hopefully it will keep getting harder.

I'd like to try to scratch some freshly painted tremclad and see how it goes.
Posted By: C38coupe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/16/06 01:27 AM

Hi All, when I tried to scrape it off the can it had alreay hardened pretty good, the paint on the rim of the can will propbably give me a hell of time to open this can in a few months. When I tried to scrape at the paint on the edge of my test site it was rock solid considering it has only been on a matter of days. Tonight I will try and scrape off some more and see what happens. As with any paint it will dry, then it requires some time period to fully cure and harden, this would depand on conditions it was applied, thinned,etc. The only other thing we could possibly do is ship a small can to you USA guys and let you try the Tremclad versus the Rustoleum, this could be an option. Because Rustoleum USA manufactures the Tremclad for the Canadian market and is not sold in the USA, the formulation to meet EPA laws and regulations may be different, but I doubt it. The paint is an Alkyd enamel and reduces with mineral spirits, which is oil based paint. Other paints with the same specs,may be the same and could very well be an alternative. NAPA Canada has an auotmotive paint division,called C-Max, they make a paint called Metal-pro paint,It can be reduced 10 %, can be used with there hardner to be sprayed, and I was told it is a Urethane paint, this could be interesting, sells in my locale in Canada for $44.00 canadian per gallon.Another thing about Tremclad paint is that it could have beena totally canadian product in the past and perhaps the US Rustoleum company took it over. I do believe once upon a time it was called Tremco's Tremclad paint, but I could be wrong. Lets not forget this product is dirt cheap as compared to automotive paints, in fact POR-15 rust paint is a hell of lot more money than this product, I wonder if it could give POR-15 a run for there money. Antoher product sold in the USA and not in Canada is Rust-Cap paint, I believe it comes in anumber of colors, it is referred to as the poormans POR-15, and sells for about $40.00 to $50.00 per gallon. Hope this helps some of you guys with your questions and ideas about this paint and method...C38coupe
Posted By: C38coupe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/16/06 03:13 AM

Hello, well I tried to scratch/gouge the Tremclad paint of the top of the can, as well as the overspill on the label, no such luck. On the rim of the can,where the paint was thick, I was able to scratch it off, and it felt softer where it was thicker. On my test piece,I COULD NOT SCRATCH/GOUGE PAINT WITH MY FINGER NAILS",I was able to scratch the paint with a sharp screwdriver, as well I dragged my 3 year olds plastic snow shovel against the whole test area and only made minor impressions into the paint. So this has been my experience with the Tremclad paint trials. As you can see this paint is tough. I spoke with a professional house painter the other day and asked him if he ever used Tremclad in his work. This is what he told me, that he used the tremclad many times in his work, that he even painted the exterior metal storm doors in his own house a few years ago, and they still look great, have not faded nor are they peeling due to adhesion problems. I am not trying to promote Tremclad for the Rustoleum Corporation, but hopefully what I am sharing may be of use to some of you guys considering using this paint on your cars. All the best C38coupe
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/16/06 03:10 PM

i would have to agree with c38coupe, all i can vouch for is the tremclad, it is really tough paint, if it's good enough for wheel barows, mail boxes, metal railings, ect, which is made to be exposed to all the elements, it's good enough for my car, maybe even better than auto paint, try painting a rusty mail box with auto paint and see how long it lasts!!! as for the tremclad, i can say that the quality of the paint is excellent, on my 74 orange beetle i had to repaint a fender 3yrs after i painted the car due to a really nasty dent/scratch someone was nice enough to leave me at a parking lot. i bought a small can of the same color and repainted the fender, the paint was a PERFECT color match, 3 yrs later, same color, perfect match. you could not tell which fender i repainted, that has to be a testomony to the manufacture of the paint, that it is extreemly consistient, and very good quality. i've had issues with dupont paints in the same situation where color from the same lot # was different from can to can, just goes to show you that the cheapest paint could be manufactured well, and just because it's labeled "rust paint" does'nt meen that it's garbage.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/17/06 04:12 AM

I gave this a try, ended up with a ton of tiny bubbles on the cars quarter panel after rolling it. I followed all directions that i have read per 69chargeryeehaa. Are the bubbles a norm?Paint was Rustoleum professional Almond,used mineral spirits,mixed 20%,cleaned surface with mineral spirits. So what did I do wrong?
Posted By: roe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/17/06 05:31 AM

Quote:

I gave this a try, ended up with a ton of tiny bubbles on the cars quarter panel after rolling it. I followed all directions that i have read per 69chargeryeehaa. Are the bubbles a norm?Paint was Rustoleum professional Almond,used mineral spirits,mixed 20%,cleaned surface with mineral spirits. So what did I do wrong?




He said not to get the paint shaken or you would get bubbles. Did you get it shaken? And he also said that after you down a coat, to let it sit for a minute, then go over it lightly with the weight of the roller only. Did you do that?

Otherwise maybe 69Charger can help you out.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/17/06 08:04 AM

There is a problem with not having the paint shaken in my situation.

I went to Canadian Tire and they don't have navy blue already pre mixed, so they told me they have to mix regular blue with some other colours (they have the formula there) and shake the whole thing.

What am i supposed to do? Don't they shake the paint from the factory anyway?
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/17/06 08:05 AM

Quote:

He said not to get the paint shaken or you would get bubbles. Did you get it shaken? And he also said that after you down a coat, to let it sit for a minute, then go over it lightly with the weight of the roller only. Did you do that?

Otherwise maybe 69Charger can help you out.




I didnt have mine shaken, and i went back over it with a roller and still had a couple bubbles. It was the first coat, so maybe after the next coat that wont happen

oh and i just bought some Smoke Gray rustoleum that im trying out. The paint was a litte thicker than it shoulda been im sure, turned out ok. The next coat will be thinner and it should look better. So normally there is no sanding between the 1st and 2nd coats right? just 2nd and 3rd? I'm using my trunklid for testing
Posted By: patrick

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/17/06 01:42 PM

Quote:

There is a problem with not having the paint shaken in my situation.

I went to Canadian Tire and they don't have navy blue already pre mixed, so they told me they have to mix regular blue with some other colours (they have the formula there) and shake the whole thing.

What am i supposed to do? Don't they shake the paint from the factory anyway?




if they do shake it, I'd let the paint sit for a few weeks in the can to work the air bubbles out before rolling it then
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/17/06 02:22 PM

The paint I was using wasn't shaken, but when I stirred it up I made a few bubbles which went away pretty quick, I dont think any of them stayed on once i started rolling.

When I roll, I make a few bubbles though and they seem to go away on their own, then when I very lightly roll over the area a minute or 2 after first applying, it evens out the extra tiny glob of paint left by the bubble. The thinner you get the mixture, the quicker the bubbles go away in my experience.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/17/06 02:57 PM

Quote:

The paint I was using wasn't shaken, but when I stirred it up I made a few bubbles which went away pretty quick, I dont think any of them stayed on once i started rolling.

When I roll, I make a few bubbles though and they seem to go away on their own, then when I very lightly roll over the area a minute or 2 after first applying, it evens out the extra tiny glob of paint left by the bubble. The thinner you get the mixture, the quicker the bubbles go away in my experience.



you get excessive bubbles if you put too much mineral spirits, also just stir it, if it is shaken in the store wait at least 4 days to let all the bubbles come out of the paint. after you paint, wait 2 mins, and then just use the weight of the roller and go over it, the bubbles can also be eliminated by just gently blowing on them, then using just the weight of the roller over them as exit1965 described. before you paint make sure that you really mix the paint in the pan before you paint, if you think you mixed it enough, mix it again or you'll get excessive bubbles. also when you look in the tray, after you load the roller up and then squeeze the paint out, if you see any bubbles sitting on the top of the paint then you need to use a peice of paper towel, and lightly "skim" the surface of the paint in the pan to get rid of the bubbles, once you do that your good to go for as long as that paint lasts. sometimes i find no matter how well you mix it the mineral spirits rises to the surface. 90% of them are eliminated by mixing, mixing, and mixing again, then mix!!!! if you get excessive bubbles still, then add more paint to the mix to dilute the ratio, that usually means you have a tad too much mineral spirits. and the 2 mins after you paint, the bubbles might be there, once again gently just blow on them, and then just using the weight of the roller, you still may see where the bubble was, but as long as there is no bubble the paint will level. everything takes time, don't expect it to happen instantly, wait 2 mins before you freak out!!! it sounds like a pain in the but, but once you learn how to "read" the paint, and get the feel for it you should be able to to a coat on the whole car (not including the door jambs and trunk...) in 1 hour. i would paint in the morning, then again in the evening, then the next morning wetsand, then paint, then again in the evening; repeat.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/17/06 03:27 PM

also i just wanted to mention that durring the whole process you may think that it looks like crap, after a coat you may see a little peel, lines ect...but wetsanding eliminates all of this. after you wetsand, take a rag soaked with meneral spirits and whipe the whole car down, when it's wet it gives you an idea of what it will look like polished. before i paint another coat after wetsanding i whipe down the car with mineral spirits, that super cleans the surface from any residue, also i use a tack cloth to whipe down the area to get rid of any dust. another tip when wetsanding, i would say the stages for wetsanding are: 2 coats, wetsand with 600-800 grit lightly, then 2 more coats, and wetsand with 800grit, then 2 coats and final wetsand with 1000grit, then buff and polish. when i wetsand i have a spray bottle with straight water and constantly spray the surface, also i have a bucket of water that i often rinse the sand paper in, and yet another bucket of water with a shammy that i use to whipe down the area i was just sanding. it's alot eaiser to clean off the wetsanding residue while it's wet. also when your wetsanding, when you first start off you feel that the paper just "glides" over the surface, as you continue to wetsand you feel the sandpaper "bite" more, and the water starts to be the color of the paint your using. wetsand gently, i just use a peice of sandpaper about 6"x6" and do it by hand. when i used a block i found the sand paper gets plugged, so do it by hand or when the sandpaper gets plugged up you scratch the paint. i find one peice of sand paper does about 1/4 of the car, or about 1 sheet does the car. as you go to the finer paper, expect to use double the amount of sandpaper. one last thing before i wrap up this book, be very light with sanding on contours of the body lines of the car, and stay away from the contours until your just about done, otherwise you'll go right thru the paint on the contours. that about covers it, good luck
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/17/06 04:08 PM

I had stirred with a paint paddel, not shaken. Also, I bought this at lowes and I asked someone in the paint dept. if this could be tinted, my responce was no way, but I have read that you guys are getting your paint tinted ,whats up?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/17/06 04:44 PM

Quote:

I had stirred with a paint paddel, not shaken. Also, I bought this at lowes and I asked someone in the paint dept. if this could be tinted, my responce was no way, but I have read that you guys are getting your paint tinted ,whats up?




I have heard that from lowe's too. Keep in mind you can tint to your hearts content by mixing the paint colors yourself. e.g get some red, add a bit of yellow and get a reddish orange. obviously if I was going to do a whole car i'd start with a gallon of the base color so I could use the same mix on the car.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/17/06 08:18 PM

in canada, tremclad is available in a tint base:
http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=555&SBL=5

from that site:
"Available in Masstone, Pastel, Red and Yellow bases
Specially formulated to offer from 80 to 104 custom colours
Can be used on previously painted or sound metal surfaces; can also be used on wood surfaces
Long lasting protection and beauty
Using a Tremclad® Primer will increase the rust preventative quality of the coating
Excellent adhesion
Available in high gloss alkyd-based enamel format "


i guess we just have it better in canada!!!
Posted By: DaDart

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/17/06 08:22 PM

I was at Lowes, Home Depot , and Menards and they sell the base tint and will color match.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/17/06 10:08 PM

The paint guy at the Lowes I was at told me they will not tint this paint. Guess I'll try another store till I find someone that will.
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/18/06 08:47 PM

So I'm confused are people using Tremclad or Rustoleum? Or is there even a difference?

Mike
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/18/06 09:15 PM

Quote:

So I'm confused are people using Tremclad or Rustoleum? Or is there even a difference?

Mike




tremclad is sold in canada, and rustoleum is sold in the USA, but it's the same manufacturer.
Posted By: C38coupe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/18/06 11:04 PM

Heres the scoop between Rustoleum Paint, ( made in the USA), and Tremclad Paint, made in Toronto Ontario Canada (aka Hogtown). The Rustoleum Corporation USA owns the Tremclad operation in Canada. The Tremclad paint is made in Canada in thier plant in The City of Toronto. It is a very diffferent paint than Rustoleun, both are made, sold and marketed as a rust paint, that you can use over metal wood fibreglass,wives , kids, bosses etc, sticks like!!!!!!!!! to a blanket. The resin in Tremclad is of a long oil base in chemical nature, thus does well when thinned with mineral spirits. The Tremclad company recommends you thin this paint to 10% for the purpose of spray application, usually 1 or 2 coats. The roller technique, employed by people like us was unknoun to the Tremclad chemists. But they did state, that by using the paint this way would infact create a very good bond,very hard surface and a nice finish to work with. So I believe Charger has been very ingenious in discovering this method, ( should be patented), so hats off to you Charger. Now getting back to the Rustoleum paint made and sold in the USA, it is of an arcrylic resin in its basic chemical make-up, so there is definately a difference in the 2 paints, which could be why some results in this application may vary. I hope this helps some of you guys with your questions. You will not be able to buy Tremclad in you retail stores that sell Rustoleum, but you could have Rustoleum order it for you I believe.......Roll on Brothers Roll on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: 57Plymouth

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/18/06 11:23 PM

Guys I have been reading this post, but I didn't feel that my input would be helpfull. It may still not be, but I am going to give it anyway.

I painted my ragged old Ford 900 farm tractor 4 years ago with the red Rustoleum paint that has been used in this discussion. I did not thin it, and I sprayed it with a very very poor quality conventinal suction paint gun. This was literally an attempt to make the tractor look a little better since I had just rebuilt the engine and replaced the clutch. I was so happy with the results, that I took the time to get the correct contrasting grey color and painted the tractor the proper way. The stupid thing still looks good when I take the time to pressure wash it clean(ish). Now this is a work horse, not a show tractor. The paint has held up far better than anyone expected. It is worn off on the pedals and running boards. It is scratched in places where limbs and branches have hit it. But it still looks respectable. I had enough left over from the gallon I bought to put a quick coat on a junk work truck (that I acutally bought as a parts truck for my project truck). I regularly drive this truck through the woods, and don't stop for saplings or blackberry thickets. It is also scratched, but the paint still sticks. I did not do a good prep job. I didn't even wash it. I gave it a quick scrub with a scothbrite pad, blew the dust off with the air hose, and sprayed the paint at it. The paint stuck very well. If I had taken at least some time to do a halfway good job, it would have been very presentable wihtout sanding at all. The two front fenders and driver's door on this truck were stripped to bare steel to be used on my project truck. They had too much filler, too many very bad dents, and too many slide hammer holes for me to bother with for my good truck, so I slapped them on the junker. They recieved no primer, and have not rusted in three years. The paint works. If you care to take the time it could make for a good looking driver. I doubt it can get good enough for a show car, but for a daily driver it would be cheap and easy to use.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/18/06 11:23 PM

Quote:

Heres the scoop between Rustoleum Paint, ( made in the USA), and Tremclad Paint, made in Toronto Ontario Canada (aka Hogtown). The Rustoleum Corporation USA owns the Tremclad operation in Canada. The Tremclad paint is made in Canada in thier plant in The City of Toronto. It is a very diffferent paint than Rustoleun, both are made, sold and marketed as a rust paint, that you can use over metal wood fibreglass,wives , kids, bosses etc, sticks like!!!!!!!!! to a blanket. The resin in Tremclad is of a long oil base in chemical nature, thus does well when thinned with mineral spirits. The Tremclad company recommends you thin this paint to 10% for the purpose of spray application, usually 1 or 2 coats. The roller technique, employed by people like us was unknoun to the Tremclad chemists. But they did state, that by using the paint this way would infact create a very good bond,very hard surface and a nice finish to work with. So I believe Charger has been very ingenious in discovering this method, ( should be patented), so hats off to you Charger. Now getting back to the Rustoleum paint made and sold in the USA, it is of an arcrylic resin in its basic chemical make-up, so there is definately a difference in the 2 paints, which could be why some results in this application may vary. I hope this helps some of you guys with your questions. You will not be able to buy Tremclad in you retail stores that sell Rustoleum, but you could have Rustoleum order it for you I believe.......Roll on Brothers Roll on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




thanks for all the compliments, but i have a question, where did you get this info from? i think that EXIT1965 got basically the same results that i got, using the same tequnique, simmilar finish, and from what i read of his post encountered the same issues like bubbles, ect...so that being said the only issue that exit1965 had was the durability of the paint, and that he was able to scratch it off. i can say that when i painted my car i probally could have scratched it off too, but after a month or so it was rock hard. i know this because i noticed when i was assembling the 74 beetle, that the paint would "dent" eaisly, but i did'nt try to scratch it off. i honestly think there is alot of different types of rustoleum in usa, rust fighter, rust cover, ect....so i think that what exit1965 used is the same as i used; aka tremclad. i'm just glad i found the tremclad, and that it works for me. as for the pattent, i've filed the papers!!! just kidding. i have to say the paint is really awesome, and holding up really well. even on the 1974 beetle, in the back alot of people have issues with paint cracking and peeling due to the extreem heat from vw rear air cooled engines, but i can say mine is perfect. i'm curious to see how exit1965's paint tests in lets say a month, i bet it would'nt scratch off at all.
Posted By: C38coupe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/18/06 11:40 PM

I spoke with a Tremclad marketing rep, his name is Mark. Mark said the formula between the tremclad and Rustoleum, the consumer lines.Meaning the non-industrial type paints, these 2 paints have a different formula base, but are meant to accomplish the same results, he did not comment on which of the 2 may be better paints only that they were made to do the same thing. The resins in the 2 paints are different in there chemical make up. When Rustoleum took over Tremclad some years ago, the Tremclad paint had some issues with fading. This has since been corrected using some component(company secret) from the Rustoleum corp, that corrected the fading issue. Don't get me wrong I am no expert, I only wish to share what was told to me concerning the 2 paint lines. It could be either paint will have to be tweaked by the user as well the experience factor on its application, would have to be developed by the user. He went to explain the resin differences Tremclad (long oil base) and Rustoleum ( either acrylic or come type of alkyd), but there definately is a difference). As a company rep he did not say which one may be a better paint, but the Tremclad will be sold only in Canada and the Rustoleum in the can will only be sold in the USA. This could be for EPA reasons, because of the VOC laws.This gentleman was very interested in this method of painting, has been consulting chemists at Tremclad. He has had a number of calls from people in the USA about using the Tremclad paint as you have dsicovered. Hope this helps.........Fred
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/19/06 01:02 AM

Well as far as helping goes this does not help us Poor U.S. citizens that want to use the tremclad product. A very small chemical difference goes a long way. However, enamal hardner with isocyanates in it that would turn the paint into a better longer lasting more durable product is available. It is sold at TSC and says for use with all enamel paints. It is worth looking into. Its 10 dollars a can. Does make the paint dry faster though.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/19/06 01:05 AM

I have applied the "professional" stuff on another area of my door. All 6 coats are done now, I'm just waiting for the final coat a bit longer before I sand and polish. It already seems a little harder to scratch but its way too early to make any conclusion.

The non-professional stuff i posted pics of, I can still scratch the paint. I have to dig my fingernail in first, then push down. Its not easy to do. I've tried slashing it with a screwdriver, and when I do that the best I can do is to put a scratch in it but it doesnt' go all the way to the metal as when I use my nail.

maybe i have super fingernails.. but i'm hoping to test both of them in a few weeks and see that i can't scratch either.

so far the pro stuff smells, looks and acts just like the non-pro stuff. I wish I had some documentation as to an actual difference, but i guess i'll take their word for it.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/19/06 01:07 AM

Quote:

Well as far as helping goes this does not help us Poor U.S. citizens that want to use the tremclad product. A very small chemical difference goes a long way. However, enamal hardner with isocyanates in it that would turn the paint into a better longer lasting more durable product is available. It is sold at TSC and says for use with all enamel paints. It is worth looking into. Its 10 dollars a can. Does make the paint dry faster though.




Toplessz, it's interesting you mention that. The tech support at Rustoleum told me the "professional" stuff dried faster and was more durable.. I wonder if this hardener product is what's in the professional line that's not in the standard line...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/19/06 01:46 AM

Hello. Am new to this site, but have been following along for the past week or so. I to had issues with bubbles. I found that if you continue to roll the paint 2-3 min, the bubbles are gone, and the paint lays really flat. The act of rolling tends to let the mineral spirts evaporate. I think. It worked for me.
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/19/06 02:00 AM

Nothing to add but a welcome to -cole18cars-. Welcome and join in the "fun".
Posted By: KingMopar

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/19/06 02:10 AM

I think the main thing is getting the surface properly scuffed....and being patient on letting the enamel dry all the way thru. Enamels are a very soft paint with long, long cure times. If a hardner is added, it accelerates this process and thus makes a more brittle paint--and in my mind, will hurt the roller method as you need time for it to level. Mineral Spirits that are in the paint do not evaporate very quickly, say as acetone, lacquer, or keytone. For an enamel.....I'd say a month would be a good time period to say "it's finished" and to do any scratch/bang/beat testing. it will never be as hard as an enamel with hardner, but shouldn't be as prone to crack at seam joints, etc.
Posted By: C38coupe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/19/06 02:25 AM

Well I decided to give the Tremclad another scratch and dent test tonight after 7 days after the last coat. I tried to scrape/scratch the paint of the can and label, unless I want to rip my nail from my finger in the process, I could not scratch the paint from the can.
Onto to my test piece the metal dash from a 1948 Dodge, very rusted to begin with, I just gave it a sand with 150 until relatively smooth. Again I could not scratch or scrape this paint from my test piece. I tried to scratch it on the edge of the paint area, in the centre and any other place you can think of. My next test will be sledge hammer, angle grinder, sand blaster and tiger torch, " just kidding". So far my results have been very good, the test piece was painted at 70 degrees temperature, but it has been sitting out in my garage temp around 36 farenheit all week
Just a thought you border state guys could run into your nearest Canadian towns and buy some and try it out, but if you can get the results with rustoleum, why bother. And for you guys a little to far from the 49th parallel(Can/USA Border), you could contact Rustoleum USA and ask them to import you some Tremaclad for private use, I am sure they could do this.
Posted By: ONEBADBIRD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/19/06 02:45 AM

Hey Guys, I've said it before but I'll say it again this is the best thing since sliced bread. Talk about a paint job on a budget well you can't get any better than this. Which got me thinking as I was sitting here, What does the guy (labrat) that started this topic think of this idea I havent seen him chime in with his opinion yet. Oh well just thought I'd stir the pot a little if ya know what I mean!!!! It's winter and I'm just getting cabin fever
"Can't wait to start a rollin" Jay
Posted By: KingMopar

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/19/06 02:48 AM

Seeing that the times have been very close as far as drying times....and the scratch results differ, me tends to think that maybe the EPA has stepped on the Rustolium, in the regards of chemical makeup. Years ago, I've shot Rustolium over bare metal and given a month of drying time(if surface was clean and prepped), it's a very durable paint..as the painting was part of my brothers business(Tigtoons) I'd still give the Rustolium at least a month to dry to prove itself. The Tremclad might be a different chemical makeup as stated above....so it might be just a better paint for this type of application. Our government at work.

Did you know you could be "fined" via our EPA for shooting your car in your garage......but roll it outside, and they can't do a thing.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/19/06 04:03 PM

Here is an angle shot of the "professional" almond color. I had just finished the polish job. The rest of the test area I painted was prepped even worse so this was the best surface to show.

To me, the reflection looks a little "sharper" in this paint then it does in the non-professional stuff. I was in a hurry to finish this application of the professional, i think it would look smoother if I had spent a bit more time wetsanding with 6 or 800 grit. All else being equal, I think I would choose this paint to use over the standard rustoleum.

I was able to use my fingernail to scrape away part of the "professional" test area, but I'll resist the urge and give it a few weeks before trying again. Interesting that right before I scraped the professional side, I scraped the old side again, and the professional side was harder to scratch than the old (standard) side, and the professional side got 2 coats just yesterday.. so maybe it does harden quicker...





Attached picture 2409811-IMG_0749(Large).JPG
Posted By: WilliamHall

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/19/06 06:14 PM

Quote:

Well I decided to give the Tremclad another scratch and dent test tonight after 7 days after the last coat. I tried to scrape/scratch the paint of the can and label, unless I want to rip my nail from my finger in the process, I could not scratch the paint from the can.
Onto to my test piece the metal dash from a 1948 Dodge, very rusted to begin with, I just gave it a sand with 150 until relatively smooth. Again I could not scratch or scrape this paint from my test piece. I tried to scratch it on the edge of the paint area, in the centre and any other place you can think of. My next test will be sledge hammer, angle grinder, sand blaster and tiger torch, " just kidding". So far my results have been very good, the test piece was painted at 70 degrees temperature, but it has been sitting out in my garage temp around 36 farenheit all week
Just a thought you border state guys could run into your nearest Canadian towns and buy some and try it out, but if you can get the results with rustoleum, why bother. And for you guys a little to far from the 49th parallel(Can/USA Border), you could contact Rustoleum USA and ask them to import you some Tremaclad for private use, I am sure they could do this.




I use the professional version on a can and although much tougher than the standard it is not that tough. After reading this, I want some of that Tremclad. Sounds like an awesome paint.
Posted By: QuickDodge

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/19/06 09:40 PM

I've been looking at the Rust-oleum website comparing the information on their products. Under the industrial high performance paints a 9400 system is listed. It is described in part as:

Industrial high gloss Urethane

- Super high gloss finish
- Excellent for vehicle refinishing
- Highly aesthetic and durable
- A leveling additive is also available for brushing and roller application.

The only bad part is the color selection is limited. It does not state whether this product can be tinted or not.

The web address is:

http://www.rustoleum.com/product/asp:frm_product_id=106&SBL=2

Would this paint work for us? Could this paint be wetsanded and polished?
Posted By: Clair_Davis

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/19/06 09:52 PM

Not sure about the sanding/buffing part, but in small print on your linked page:
Quote:

Tint bases also available for custom colors.




Clair
Posted By: mopork

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/19/06 09:56 PM

on the above link underneath is listed the various tint bases, so I would say it can be tinted some what
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/19/06 11:24 PM

I attempted to do another coat on the trunklid today. And still got AIR BUBBLES The paint was never shaken, only stirred...well. Ive tried different pressures with the roller, doesnt seem to make a difference. I'm sanding the trunklid back down, what can i do for the 'new' first coat to avoid those darn bubbles?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/20/06 03:41 AM

Quote:

I attempted to do another coat on the trunklid today. And still got AIR BUBBLES The paint was never shaken, only stirred...well. Ive tried different pressures with the roller, doesnt seem to make a difference. I'm sanding the trunklid back down, what can i do for the 'new' first coat to avoid those darn bubbles?




Do the bubbles only appear after you start rolling? If so, that seems to be normal, but it's also normal that they will pop on their own, or you can very lightly glide over them with the roller which will pop them and redistribute the resulting glob.

If they're not popping on their own, perhaps its a mixture ratio problem. Try thinning it more..
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/20/06 03:52 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I attempted to do another coat on the trunklid today. And still got AIR BUBBLES The paint was never shaken, only stirred...well. Ive tried different pressures with the roller, doesnt seem to make a difference. I'm sanding the trunklid back down, what can i do for the 'new' first coat to avoid those darn bubbles?




Do the bubbles only appear after you start rolling? If so, that seems to be normal, but it's also normal that they will pop on their own, or you can very lightly glide over them with the roller which will pop them and redistribute the resulting glob.

If they're not popping on their own, perhaps its a mixture ratio problem. Try thinning it more..



Ive tried rollin over them. Its still an issue, they dry and look like
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/20/06 06:25 AM

The mineral spirits wouldn't do that, so it's the paint, try thinning it more. Get it close to water just to see if your bubble problem goes away. It shouldn't run as long as you run over it lightly after first application, and don't get caught up in trying to coat the area with the new color on the 1st, 2nd or 3rd application. It's easy to lay the 1st coat on too thick because you want to change the color of whatever you're painting, but really your goal should be just getting a smooth thin layer of the mixture on.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/20/06 06:32 AM

Quote:

The mineral spirits wouldn't do that, so it's the paint, try thinning it more. Get it close to water just to see if your bubble problem goes away. It shouldn't run as long as you run over it lightly after first application, and don't get caught up in trying to coat the area with the new color on the 1st, 2nd or 3rd application. It's easy to lay the 1st coat on too thick because you want to change the color of whatever you're painting, but really your goal should be just getting a smooth thin layer of the mixture on.




That sounds like what i needed to hear. I think my paint is too thick As soon as i can get it runnin and in the garage. its gettin painted...er i mean roller

Heres a photoshop of what it should look like. Color may be a little darker when it comes out

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/20/06 06:58 AM

With a black hood? Cool, im planning the same thing for mine except with a glass cowl hood..
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/20/06 07:07 AM

Quote:

With a black hood? Cool, im planning the same thing for mine except with a glass cowl hood..





Actually this is with a black hood and slant callout

Attached picture 2412334-AfterDuster2.jpg
Posted By: Texican

Bubbles aren't a problem - 02/20/06 10:13 PM

If you have to have a special color mixed, which requires the can to be shaken, there is a simple process to remove (ALL) bubbles. If you don't have time to just wait, you can achieve the same (actualy better) results by pulling a vacuum on the paint for 30 minutes - 1 hour.
There are several methods of doing this, but the easiest and (least scientific) is to hook a strong bilge pump to a hose going into the top of your paint can. The seal needs to be (of course) air tight, but that will definately get rid of all bubbles in your paint.
The more scientific way is actually fun to watch; you place your paint in glass jar so you can see the bubbles; sit the glass jar on a table; place a LARGE bell jar over the glass jar full of paint. Cut a hole in the table and pass an air hose through the hole (we used threaded fittings). Hook the hose to a pump and once you started pulling a vacuum, you can see all the air bubbles go to the top of the jar and disappear.
This process is used by the defense dept to apply tough finishes to cruise missles, etc... (Not classified info by the way..)

Good Luck
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: Bubbles aren't a problem - 02/20/06 10:30 PM

Quote:

If you have to have a special color mixed, which requires the can to be shaken, there is a simple process to remove (ALL) bubbles. If you don't have time to just wait, you can achieve the same (actualy better) results by pulling a vacuum on the paint for 30 minutes - 1 hour.
There are several methods of doing this, but the easiest and (least scientific) is to hook a strong bilge pump to a hose going into the top of your paint can. The seal needs to be (of course) air tight, but that will definately get rid of all bubbles in your paint.
The more scientific way is actually fun to watch; you place your paint in glass jar so you can see the bubbles; sit the glass jar on a table; place a LARGE bell jar over the glass jar full of paint. Cut a hole in the table and pass an air hose through the hole (we used threaded fittings). Hook the hose to a pump and once you started pulling a vacuum, you can see all the air bubbles go to the top of the jar and disappear.
This process is used by the defense dept to apply tough finishes to cruise missles, etc... (Not classified info by the way..)

Good Luck




you could also take it into the vacuum of space ahhhhh sorry i just could'nt resist, but he's right, that's a good way to remove bubbles quickly. or you could just mix the paint and not have it shaken.
Posted By: phoenix70charger

Re: Bubbles aren't a problem - 02/20/06 10:51 PM

Quote:

If you have to have a special color mixed, which requires the can to be shaken, there is a simple process to remove (ALL) bubbles. If you don't have time to just wait, you can achieve the same (actualy better) results by pulling a vacuum on the paint for 30 minutes - 1 hour.
There are several methods of doing this, but the easiest and (least scientific) is to hook a strong bilge pump to a hose going into the top of your paint can. The seal needs to be (of course) air tight, but that will definately get rid of all bubbles in your paint.
The more scientific way is actually fun to watch; you place your paint in glass jar so you can see the bubbles; sit the glass jar on a table; place a LARGE bell jar over the glass jar full of paint. Cut a hole in the table and pass an air hose through the hole (we used threaded fittings). Hook the hose to a pump and once you started pulling a vacuum, you can see all the air bubbles go to the top of the jar and disappear.
This process is used by the defense dept to apply tough finishes to cruise missles, etc... (Not classified info by the way..)

Good Luck



That does work, that's how I removed the bubbles from the RTV I used on the solar panels I built. Had to remove the bubbles because a bubble would expand in space (on a satellite) and crack/break the solar cells potentially making the whole array useless.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: Bubbles aren't a problem - 02/21/06 12:46 AM





That does work, that's how I removed the bubbles from the RTV I used on the solar panels I built. Had to remove the bubbles because a bubble would expand in space (on a satellite) and crack/break the solar cells potentially making the whole array useless.





happened to you too ehhh? when it happened to me it set me back months with my plans to take over the world
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: Bubbles aren't a problem - 02/21/06 01:00 AM

I could just picture, bringing the paint in the kitchen, getting out the "good" punch bowl that we use when company comes over, and drilling a hole in the table......then the wife walks in the room and says her typical saying "what the hell are you doing? is that a hole in the table???? " and i reply "oh nothing, just watching paint bubbles come out of the paint, i'll be done in ohhhh.......15 mins" that would be priceless
Posted By: ONEBADBIRD

Re: Bubbles aren't a problem - 02/21/06 03:32 AM

AAAAHHHH bubbles, snow, leaves on the ground in the fall, etc... The things we just loved as a kid are a real pain in the %#$ when we get out into the real world!!!!! as adults. But hey I think I am going to just stick with the Rustoleum paint and just roll with it. After reading the posts from when this thing first started there are numerous guys who said they used this paint. Doing their daily drivers and with no prep or wetsanding and had a decent paint job, but best of all they say their rides are still holding up out in the daily elements. That just shows the durability of this Rustoleum paint I would say.
"Roll-on fellas Roll-on" Jay
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: Bubbles aren't a problem - 02/21/06 03:35 AM

Quote:

AAAAHHHH bubbles, snow, leaves on the ground in the fall, etc... The things we just loved as a kid are a real pain in the %#$ when we get out into the real world!!!!! as adults. But hey I think I am going to just stick with the Rustoleum paint and just roll with it. After reading the posts from when this thing first started there are numerous guys who said they used this paint. Doing their daily drivers and with no prep or wetsanding and had a decent paint job, but best of all they say their rides are still holding up out in the daily elements. That just shows the durability of this Rustoleum paint I would say.
"Roll-on fellas Roll-on" Jay




I'll be doing it to my duster as soon as i get it running and can pull it in the garage when i coat it. Just boughta polisher off ebay for $30 (shipped). I plan on doin the best i can for as cheap as i can
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: Bubbles aren't a problem - 02/21/06 04:42 AM

I am close to starting this on my dart, with the drivers side fender. Just need to weld some trim holes then bondo them up.. it will be nice to see a straight glossy surface down the fender.

Posted By: TonyS451

Re: Bubbles aren't a problem - 02/21/06 09:51 PM

It's nice to see someone is trying this method and having success with it (Exit1965). Keep the update pics coming! Still not sure why this thread doesn't just get a sticky already.
Posted By: Texican

Re: Bubbles aren't a problem - 02/21/06 10:27 PM

My intentions are not to add to the confusion about all the different types of paint that might achieve the same results. If Tremclad was available locally, I wouldn't even bother looking for alternatives, but it isn't, so I am.

I went to my local Sherwin-Williams store and asked what they had comparible to the Tremclad/Rust-o-leum Alkyd paints.

The first thing he did was look on the internet and studied the data sheet for Tremclad, then he showed me their version of the same product (Sherwin-Williams Patent of the same product).
Name: Exterior Alkyd All Surface Enamel A11 Series
The Can states that it controls rust and erosion.

The data sheet states similar cure times as the rust-o-leum products.

I bought one quart of the white and had it tinted seafoam green.

Anyway, I'm testing a 2 ft/sq area of both (Sherwin-Williams brand) as well as the Rust-o-Leum brand on the test subject below. An unrestored 1958 F100 that runs and drives perfect.
Should look good in the old Sefoam green and white.

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: Bubbles aren't a problem - 02/21/06 10:54 PM

Quote:

My intentions are not to add to the confusion about all the different types of paint that might achieve the same results. If Tremclad was available locally, I wouldn't even bother looking for alternatives, but it isn't, so I am.

I went to my local Sherwin-Williams store and asked what they had comparible to the Tremclad/Rust-o-leum Alkyd paints.

The first thing he did was look on the internet and studied the data sheet for Tremclad, then he showed me their version of the same product (Sherwin-Williams Patent of the same product).
Name: Exterior Alkyd All Surface Enamel A11 Series
The Can states that it controls rust and erosion.

The data sheet states similar cure times as the rust-o-leum products.

I bought one quart of the white and had it tinted seafoam green.

Anyway, I'm testing a 2 ft/sq area of both (Sherwin-Williams brand) as well as the Rust-o-Leum brand on the test subject below. An unrestored 1958 F100 that runs and drives perfect.
Should look good in the old Sefoam green and white.






I went to my local sherwin williams too, but they pointed me to a DTM enamel which they only sold in gallons, for indoor/outdoor. I wasn't going to buy a gallon, so I passed. If your test area turns out well with it, perhaps i'll check them out again to see if your product is available here (might be a California thing).
Posted By: petty43

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/22/06 03:55 AM

http://www.vansicklepaint.com/mntequip.htm

How's this compare to tremclad? It is available at Orscheln Farm and home stores in my area.
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/23/06 02:52 AM

Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/23/06 03:01 PM

Quote:

http://www.vansicklepaint.com/mntequip.htm

How's this compare to tremclad? It is available at Orscheln Farm and home stores in my area.




i think we should stop comparing other paints, and focus on the tequnique. most enamels will be the same or similar in the way the paint lays, cures, and finishes. so we could spend all day looking for different paints and posting "how does this paint look". if your truly interested in the process and want to paint using this system, then please, buy some of the paint, and post your results here and you tell us!!!! work with what's available to you in your location, take EXIT1965, and 38 COUPE, they have both expiremented with the process and have gone thru the steps, and i'm sure when they find a different paint they will let us know what works. there are hundereds of brands of paints, however the tequnique i assume will be the same if not simmilar for all.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/23/06 04:32 PM

Quote:

i think we should stop comparing other paints, and focus on the tequnique. most enamels will be the same or similar in the way the paint lays, cures, and finishes. so we could spend all day looking for different paints and posting "how does this paint look". if your truly interested in the process and want to paint using this system, then please, buy some of the paint, and post your results here and you tell us!!!! work with what's available to you in your location, take EXIT1965, and 38 COUPE, they have both expiremented with the process and have gone thru the steps, and i'm sure when they find a different paint they will let us know what works. there are hundereds of brands of paints, however the tequnique i assume will be the same if not simmilar for all.




I think it would be interesting to try a different kind of paint entirely - the alkyd based enamels (which Ive read means the same as "oil based") seem to have the same stuff in them. It would be nice to experiment with the super industrial, non California legal stuff

One worthwhile test might be to do 8, 10 or 12 layers instead of just 6. Maybe the "deepness" of the shine has to do with how thick the paint is? I do notice on the test areas that I've done that the gloss left behind by the rustoleum is fairly nice looking, except it's not very smooth, so it's almost like you must wetsand or its not going to look nice. People who have complained that the gloss of rustoleum goes away are probably talking about that gloss left behind on the rustoleum, and haven't wetsanded or polished the paint.


While I'm at it, if I buy a few quarts of the professional rustoleum and combine them in a 1 gallon container (to get a consistent color mixture for the whole car), will the paint last for a few months while I do different parts of the car?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/23/06 04:50 PM

yes the paint will last a few months, just don't put the mixed paint with mineral spirits back into the can. it's not the # of layers that determine the gloss, just how well you wetsand it and polish it, i like to paint the minimum amount of layers so that the paint is as thin as possible and still enough thickness so that you don't wetsand thru the paint and can polish it nice. it only gets better the more effort you put into wetsanding and polishing, so in effect it looks as good as the effort you put into it. alot of people have asked if a particular paint is the same as tremcled, and the answer is i don't know, i only know the tremclad, i think those people should expirement with the process and post their results here so we can know. my question for you exit1965 is how much effort did you really put into your test peice? you had running issues in the begining and sanded it with coarse paper ect...now that you know the process do you thing you would get exponentially better results now that your confortable with the process? i think so, if you take your time and wetsand really well and then polish i'm sure you would have a really nice paint job.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/23/06 11:56 PM

Im not sure how much more effort could go into the final polish. Would that mean just keep adding more polish and water and spending more time with the orbital polisher?

Yes, personally I think I have learned enough with the experiments to try it for real. I need to keep in mind myself that the first coat should be just as thin as the rest, I think I tended to put too much on to have the color change. That seems to result in a kind of uneven, drippy surface that has to be sanded down.

Best thing I learned was that it's hard to screw up, if you do find too much drippyness, just wetsand it down with 600 or 800 and do a few more layers..

I have a hand punch coming from Harbor Freight that I'm going to use to make chads to weld into the trim holes on my fender. After I do those I should be ready to go..
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/24/06 01:13 AM

well the more you wetsand the smoother it will be, then polishing just makes it more shiny, to the more time you put into it the better it will be. as for your trim holes exit1965, you could get a copper block and weld in your trim holes. the weld does not stick to the copper, and the copper block helps disipate heat at the same time to avoid warpage.
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/24/06 05:37 AM

Quote:

w as for your trim holes exit1965, you could get a copper block and weld in your trim holes. the weld does not stick to the copper, and the copper block helps disipate heat at the same time to avoid warpage.




That is what I did. See pics. I used a harbor freight magnet to hold the copper against the back of the weld. If you work alone this really helps. I then welded it up with my mig. Take your time and work slow to keep it from warping. See pics.

-Dave

Attached picture 2424131-20040223(6).jpg
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/24/06 05:38 AM

#2

Attached picture 2424132-20040223(10).jpg
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/24/06 05:38 AM

#3

-Dave

Attached picture 2424133-20040223(12).jpg
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/24/06 02:10 PM

nice job GTSdave
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/24/06 02:25 PM

Can most of the holes be reached this way? e.g. the fenders cant be done like this can they, if they are on the car?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/24/06 08:08 PM

i would say all the holes can be done this way, if you go to a welding store or a good auto supply store they sell the copper block that is magnetic. granted you have to take off inner door pannels for example to get the block in behind the pannel but they are all accessable and can be done with this method. i've done it alot and it really works good.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/24/06 09:58 PM

I think I'll try welding a chad in from the outside first, and if that doesn't work I'll tear off the door panels, take the tires off so I can attempt to get to the back of the fender, etc.

Back to this paint job thou, anyone else have any progress?

As for scratching, I can still scratch the cheap rustoleum with my thumbnail. The pro is a bit tougher.
Posted By: 69superbee383

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/25/06 02:20 AM

Quote:

i would say all the holes can be done this way, if you go to a welding store or a good auto supply store they sell the copper block that is magnetic. granted you have to take off inner door pannels for example to get the block in behind the pannel but they are all accessable and can be done with this method. i've done it alot and it really works good.




If you cant weld like me you can cut a piece of sheet metal and use panel bond adhesive to cover the hole then just use a skim of bondo over it. Works fine for a driver.

Also I was playing around with this way of painting and wondered if anyone has tried to use the same color Rustoleum in spray to do the jambs and engine compartment.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/25/06 02:22 AM

Quote:


Also I was playing around with this way of painting and wondered if anyone has tried to use the same color Rustoleum in spray to do the jambs and engine compartment.




I think thats what i plan on tryin
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/25/06 02:56 AM

My harbor freight hand punch arrived today. after replacing a cheap set screw with a real one, it works fine but is HARD to do. I have it mounted in a vise and use a pipe over the handle to pull down, this is making 3/16" punch from 16 gauge sheetmetal.

The chads it spits out fall into a cup I've put there, and all the chads will need is a few strikes with the hammer to flatten them out and they should work fine. I've already made about 10, so I have a ways to go with that thing. I hope it survives.
Posted By: ksj

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/25/06 04:33 AM

Going to go get paint tomorrow.87 SB truck with bad paint on the roof and hood only.Should start painting on Monday and have it done by the end of the week with before and after pics.Resale Red here we come.-Don
Posted By: MattW

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/26/06 03:17 PM

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/26/06 10:58 PM

WOW! What a thread! I've read maybe 1/2 of it and feel compelled to ask my own question, hope it wasn't already asked and answered on a page I glossed over.
Anyway.....is this Rustoleum paint resistant to gasoline? I would hate to fill up and screw up the side of my car.

Also, what's with all the "deleted by Ira" replies? Hopefully not excessive censoring going on here
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/27/06 12:59 AM

Quote:

WOW! What a thread! I've read maybe 1/2 of it and feel compelled to ask my own question, hope it wasn't already asked and answered on a page I glossed over.
Anyway.....is this Rustoleum paint resistant to gasoline? I would hate to fill up and screw up the side of my car.

Also, what's with all the "deleted by Ira" replies? Hopefully not excessive censoring going on here




the deleted by ira posts was a guy that wanted to have a fight, things got ugly and he deleted the post.

i have a story about the resistance to gas: i was out for a cruise one day, in the sun, it was 38 dec celcus (100 deg F) and i stopped to buy gas, while i was filling gas on my orange beetle, the gas nozzel got stuck on full. so the tank filled and sprayed the whole front of the car when i pulled it out and threw it on the ground when it finally shut off. so there was my car in really hot sun on a hot day with the whole front of the car covered in gas. i complained to the owner and he gave me a free car wash, oh wow, i said i hope the paint will be ok. anyways there was absoultly to damage done by the gas on the whole front of my car, but it did eat the rubber on my running boards which i had to replace. also i painted a 71 kawasaki motor cycle gas tank about 15 yrs ago with black tremclad and i've spilt 15 years worth of gas on it and it still looks great. the paint is after all oil based. i've had gas stain single stage paint if you spill it and forget to whipe it in the sun.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/27/06 09:57 PM

Hey guys,
I wondered over here from the samba (VW site). I'm building a fiberglass dune buggy which I'd like a cheap, durable, easily repairable paint job on, and this sure looks promising.

I tried the "Walmart" Rustoleum on a piece of scrap steel I got from work. I roughed the surface and did the 2 coats/wetsand process 3 times. The paint looked great and laid down nice, but like Exit1965 experienced, it didn't pass the fingernail test. I'm curious to see the results you guys get with the "industrial" kind. BTW, great thread!

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/27/06 10:15 PM

I'm glad to know I'm not alone with the fingernail test, but sad to hear others are having the same issue (!).

I can still scratch the cheap stuff off fairly easily with my fingernail (digging in then pulling down), the industrial so far has been tougher but I can still do it.

There's probably still time for it to dry and harden more, but in any case I think it's unusual to have a sharp object dig in and scrape down, so I feel good (especially with the price) about painting a weekend cruiser car with it.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/27/06 10:30 PM

Quote:

I'm glad to know I'm not alone with the fingernail test, but sad to hear others are having the same issue (!).

I can still scratch the cheap stuff off fairly easily with my fingernail (digging in then pulling down), the industrial so far has been tougher but I can still do it.

There's probably still time for it to dry and harden more, but in any case I think it's unusual to have a sharp object dig in and scrape down, so I feel good (especially with the price) about painting a weekend cruiser car with it.




i can honestly say that the paint probally would have scratched off on my cars too. i noticed when i was assembling the 74 beetle about a week after painting that the paint would "dent", like when i was putting on the engine cover handle, and the handle was crooked, so i unbolted it and noticed that it left a dent, and the paint was really soft. you can barley see it now, i had to move the handle and rebolt it. but, i never tried to "scratch" it since i was not painting a test peice. i could see that it would scratch off eaisly in the first month or so, but now, honestly no matter how hard i try there is no way i could even put a hairline scratch in the paint with my nail. i honestly think that the rustoleum will dry the same as tremclad, i'd even be willing to put a wager! lol. it takes time for the paint to fully dry, and temperature plays a big role also, the colder, the longer it will take. even with modern paint jobs, your not supposed to wax even until like 3 months. and that stuff also remains soft. like when i shoot single stage, it also takes alot of time to dry.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/28/06 05:47 AM

On the "professional" rustoleum test area, just today I noticed that in one small area, the paint appears to be doing something very strange. Here is a picture. It's bubbling up or something here, and it super easy to scrape off. Any ideas what may be going on?

The "standard" rustoleum area can be seen in the 2nd picture, and it still looks good besides all the scratches I've put in it with various things, but mostly my fingernail. The final coat was applied 3 weeks ago to the day, and I can still scratch it easily. Either it will do something magical in the last week, or perhaps it will take a bit longer. I really hope it gets harder than it is. The weather has been cool and wet which I'm sure doesn't help.

Unless I can figure out the problem with the professional side (nothing is coming to mind..) I'll probably go with the standard, if it dries and hardens adequately.



Attached picture 2435090-3weekscopy.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/28/06 06:32 AM

I sprayed some seat brackets with some rustoleum primer, then gloss grey about 6 years ago... and took forever to harden where i couldnt scratch them(like weeks). I started to take the paint off and then ended up using different seats... I looked at the brackets this weekend, and the paint looks really good still, and hard. If you wait long enough it WILL harden.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/28/06 02:05 PM

I did some and think what caused the bubbling was probably heat from some drilling, welding and grinding I was doing a couple feet over. Somehow that area got too hot and bubbled up. At least that's what it looks like.

Glad to hear those seat brackets have rock solid paint now. Looks like waiting will do it from what everyone has said.
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/28/06 02:34 PM

I have not that much experience with it but it looks to me like there was a 'conflict' between the base and the paint causing poor adhesion and bubbling. Not clean enough, slight oily film left from the wipes.??
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/28/06 03:54 PM

Quote:

On the "professional" rustoleum test area, just today I noticed that in one small area, the paint appears to be doing something very strange. Here is a picture. It's bubbling up or something here, and it super easy to scrape off. Any ideas what may be going on?

The "standard" rustoleum area can be seen in the 2nd picture, and it still looks good besides all the scratches I've put in it with various things, but mostly my fingernail. The final coat was applied 3 weeks ago to the day, and I can still scratch it easily. Either it will do something magical in the last week, or perhaps it will take a bit longer. I really hope it gets harder than it is. The weather has been cool and wet which I'm sure doesn't help.

Unless I can figure out the problem with the professional side (nothing is coming to mind..) I'll probably go with the standard, if it dries and hardens adequately.





EXIT1965- i think that bubbling is a reaction to something like oil or some residue left under the paint. that is why i clean the surface with mineral spirits before painting. it will get rock hard, i'd bet money on it, it just takes time. also before you paint, sand with a coarse grit like 200 then paint. after about 2 coats the scratches will disappear. i would use the standard paint not the professional. the paint definatly will harden to a rock hard finish, the cold weather will not help speed that up.
Posted By: WilliamHall

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/28/06 09:22 PM

Quote:

On the "professional" rustoleum test area, just today I noticed that in one small area, the paint appears to be doing something very strange. Here is a picture. It's bubbling up or something here, and it super easy to scrape off. Any ideas what may be going on?

The "standard" rustoleum area can be seen in the 2nd picture, and it still looks good besides all the scratches I've put in it with various things, but mostly my fingernail. The final coat was applied 3 weeks ago to the day, and I can still scratch it easily. Either it will do something magical in the last week, or perhaps it will take a bit longer. I really hope it gets harder than it is. The weather has been cool and wet which I'm sure doesn't help.

Unless I can figure out the problem with the professional side (nothing is coming to mind..) I'll probably go with the standard, if it dries and hardens adequately.





I think the problem with the Standard is not hardening but rather it just doesnt stick to bare metal. I have done the scratch test after 4 months and it would still scratch off. Maybe if I had used primer it would have stuck better, but the point of this excersise is not to use primer!! The Professional is a different story, although I think both the stickiness and hardening properties of Tremclad are better.
Posted By: moper

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/28/06 09:27 PM

Quote:







That bubbling is a reaction to what was under it, or possibly thinner bubbles from the outer layer drying faster than the lower layers. You get them with real automotive paint if you dont allow enough flash time. Least I did..lol.

Also, those scratches are the paint chipping off the substrate from the force of the attempt, not a scratch IMO. Im sure in either case, getting the proper temps and prep would fix it.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/28/06 09:36 PM

Quote:



That bubbling is a reaction to what was under it, or possibly thinner bubbles from the outer layer drying faster than the lower layers. You get them with real automotive paint if you dont allow enough flash time. Least I did..lol.

Also, those scratches are the paint chipping off the substrate from the force of the attempt, not a scratch IMO. Im sure in either case, getting the proper temps and prep would fix it.




The bubbling explanation makes sense.. I did go over the whole area with mineral spirits on a rag, but maybe the rag wasn't clean or I didn't do it long enough.

As for the scratches, yes that is the paint coming off the metal/paint/whatever underneath it. But whether I use my fingernail to dig in, then pull down and remove it, or slash it with a screwdriver, it still removes the paint. I try my fingernail test on the original door paint, and on my dart, and the fingernail does nothing. Oh well there's still time for it to dry.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/28/06 10:55 PM

honestly this whole scratch test thing is not a valid test. if you've ever painted single stage yourself, you'd know it takes months for the paint to dry. actually putting the windshield in on my 71 blue beetle in the pics about 2 months later, i put a rag on the front cowl to rest the window on while i'm putting it in and also for leverage when putting it in, and just pressure from that left a perfect imprint of the rag fibers in the paint. paint takes time to dry. i really think that your test peice is not a good representation of the finished product. your welcome to come and try to scratch my 6yr old and my 5month old paint job, but only with your finger nail!!! i can tell you that for the first 2 months i too could probabally have for sure scratched off my paint if i did try. but the same could be said of any true automotive paint job. as far as the reaction to the paint or bubbles, you defineatly need to clean the surface really good. no matter how good any paint is it won't stick if there is any residue. as for sticking to bare metal, that's what the paint is made for, says right on the can, i have had 0 (zero, nada, nothing, zilch) issues with bonding/adhesion, reactions, scratching, remaining soft, ect with this paint at all. i can comment on one time that a teradactial crapped on 2 of my cars, 1 being the 74 beetle orange and the other being my 1999 gmc sierra, and the same load of poop hit both cars (real world expirement, 1 bird, same poop, 2 cars!!!), and it baked in the hot sun for a day before i noticed. the bird poo dried so hard, i used bug and tar remover and soaked it a bit and it came off the beetle without leaving any marks, but permanantly stained and damaged the BC/CC on the paint on my 1999 gmc sierra, this was about 10 months after painting the beetle. so i can say it is highly resistant to teridactial poo in mass quantities, that load completely wrapped around the whole car and actually stained the rubber on the running boards of the beetle and the plastic on the 99 sierra.
Posted By: WilliamHall

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 02/28/06 11:16 PM

I think the problem is lack of sticking not a hardening problem. Exit1965 can you remove the paint without scratching. I bet you can just pressing hard using your thumb. It will peel off, not smear which would happen if it has not hardened.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/01/06 02:12 AM

hey 69 - - Thanks for sharing all of this information. I stayed up half the night reading about all of this. I think I am gonna do some experimenting with this too.It would definitely be worth the effort for me to try this.

I am wondering if someone in the U.S. who lives close to Canada could just buy some of the Tremclad and test it against the Rustoleum. Maybe someone in Michigan or NY or Washington state?

Do you think the scratching has anything to do with whether it is painted directly onto bare metal or over paint? Would it dry any faster if it was on bare metal? Just curious. So, you're saying it is approximately 5 months to toally dry? Thanks again for all of your help. - - Rob
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/01/06 02:44 AM

Quote:

hey 69 - - Thanks for sharing all of this information. I stayed up half the night reading about all of this. I think I am gonna do some experimenting with this too.It would definitely be worth the effort for me to try this.

I am wondering if someone in the U.S. who lives close to Canada could just buy some of the Tremclad and test it against the Rustoleum. Maybe someone in Michigan or NY or Washington state?

Do you think the scratching has anything to do with whether it is painted directly onto bare metal or over paint? Would it dry any faster if it was on bare metal? Just curious. So, you're saying it is approximately 5 months to toally dry? Thanks again for all of your help. - - Rob



i would say it takes about 3 months to get fully dry, and by 5 months it is rock hard, just like any paint. waxing does'nt seem to affect the process at all, from what i've painted it makes no difference. i also don't think it matters at all what your painting over, since i find the tremclad to be very inert as far as having and reactions at all to being painted over anything, including the fiberglass boats, fiberglass fenders on the 69 charger i've painted, heck even the wood on our cottage is painted with black gloss tremclad about 10 years ago. like i said any paint remains "soft" for at least 3 months after painting, so subjecting paint to scratch tests after 3 weeks is not a fair test. you can absoultly not scratch either of my cars with just your fingernail no matter how hard you try, i tried on both cars under the hood and no way in hell i could scratch it whatsoever. rustoleum is sold in walmart in canada too. it would be interesting if someone tested both, although i think that the rustoleum is the same as tremclad.
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/01/06 11:14 PM

so has anyone done any more panels with this technique yet?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 08:08 AM

Thanks 69Charger. I am gonna try to get started on this tomorrow on some older pieces I have laying around, just to get a feel for it. Many thanks for all of the effort you have put into educating people about this.I think you are right about the drying time. I once painted some metal parts that were inside my apartment (old pipes that couldn't be removed), with Rustoleum and it took a long time to dry.But eventually, it did. - Rob
Posted By: moper

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 12:39 PM

69, I gotta disagree. I do a fair amount of painting on my own..many times single stage, sometimes clear over single stage of various types of paints...That's a curing problem if it takes that long. It should be hard within a few days, unless it's below 45-50*, depending on the material used. Maybe ambient temp was part of the issue? I've found various enamels to be hard as a rock within a few days in 50* weather, and next day in 60* or higher. That paint, on his panel, didnt stick for some reason. If it wasnt cured, it would flex and tear if it was being "scratched" and had poor adhesion, not come off in small oval sections along the impact..That's dry enamel with poor adhesion. You get the same effect when a sandblasted pulley or bracket gets painted with ending enamel and there's still some contaminant on the surface. At the exact point of contact, the paint fractures, but it isnt bonded to the surface, so a larger piece breaks off. A correct finish will be dmamged only where the impact is..not out on either side of the impact too. I have found these enamels to be almost bullet proof on things like tractors, and bike frames, hand rails, etc..so I think it's a prep issue.
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 01:50 PM

I am far from a chemist or anything like that but using mineral spirits as a thinner is a a thing that I wonder about as for curing and curing time. Mineral spirits is oily and does not tent to dry or evaporate very quickly there fore extending the paint drying time. This is something that I feel will greatly effect the curing time of the paint. Oil base paints tend to take their time curing but on wood they do tent to add the preserving effect of oil to the wood.
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 02:40 PM

Up here in MI there is a chain store called Murray's auto parts. I think they're owned by CSK. They sell a line of DupliColor enamels in gallon cans, and they also have "real" wax and grease remover for a low price. Mineral spirits is not going to work.

Aquaintances tell me the DupliColor enamel in conjunction with an enamel hardener (Omni or other) works very well, and also lasts quite a long time. For durability's sake, that is the cheapest paint I would consider using on anything I remotely cared about.

The spray bombs and other stuff don't have any hardener, that's why they take forever to dry (unless you heat/bake them). The lack of hardener also affects durability.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 02:46 PM

With respect to the failure of my paint (above - can run fingernail down to bare metal), I may have been able to prep better. I work in the office of a plant that punches and bends sheet steel and aluminum. The piece I used was scrap new stock. When I took it home, it had the protective oily residue from the factory still on it. I sanded the metal with 120 and liberally doused and wiped with mineral spirits before my first coat. What more should I do to cut the residue? I still have the other side of it I would like to test with.

I'm curious how the paint will react to the project I want to paint with it (fiberglass dune buggy). I would think that fiberglass would be a little 'thirstier' than sheet metal.
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 02:51 PM

Sorry but I am a firm believer that the mineral spirits is not the thing to clean with before painting. It leaves an oily residue that paint will not adhere too. It may look dry but-------- I have never been able to get paint to stick to an 'oily' base. Even oil base paaints need a clean dry base to stick too.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 03:01 PM

Quote:

Sorry but I am a firm believer that the mineral spirits is not the thing to clean with before painting. It leaves an oily residue that paint will not adhere too. It may look dry but-------- I have never been able to get paint to stick to an 'oily' base. Even oil base paaints need a clean dry base to stick too.




good luck on finding anything else, besides it says on the can to thin with mineral spirits, and clean with mineral spirits weather you spray or brush. i don't know about you, but i think the manufacturer of the paint knows best, and i followed their reccomendations to a letter. we're arguing about this like it does'nt work, but i have 2 cars now that have been painted with this method, and it works great, heck even a member saw the car in person and commented on his opinion on this thread, anyone is welcome to come and see my car in person and take a shot at using only their fingernail to try and make any type of mark/scratch period.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 03:19 PM

Quote:

69, I gotta disagree. I do a fair amount of painting on my own..many times single stage, sometimes clear over single stage of various types of paints...That's a curing problem if it takes that long. It should be hard within a few days, unless it's below 45-50*, depending on the material used. Maybe ambient temp was part of the issue? I've found various enamels to be hard as a rock within a few days in 50* weather, and next day in 60* or higher. That paint, on his panel, didnt stick for some reason. If it wasnt cured, it would flex and tear if it was being "scratched" and had poor adhesion, not come off in small oval sections along the impact..That's dry enamel with poor adhesion. You get the same effect when a sandblasted pulley or bracket gets painted with ending enamel and there's still some contaminant on the surface. At the exact point of contact, the paint fractures, but it isnt bonded to the surface, so a larger piece breaks off. A correct finish will be dmamged only where the impact is..not out on either side of the impact too. I have found these enamels to be almost bullet proof on things like tractors, and bike frames, hand rails, etc..so I think it's a prep issue.




i completely respect your opinion, as it is by far the most educated explanation i've read yet. however, (insert "but" here!!!) i have also sprayed 6 cars in my painting days with single stage, and have done several paintjob expirementations with mixing in clear into single stage and spraying clear, from many types of paint, with excellent results. and in contrast i've painted 5 cars with this roller/tremclad method, and actually sprayed one with tremclad. i completely respect your opinion about the scratch test, and the release of the paint and commented in my previous post that prep and surface residue most likely caused the bubbling and adhesion issue, however, i completely disagree on you comments about drying times. enamels or synthetic enamels (such as acrylic enamals) take huge amount of times to dry. take duplicolor's line of paint which includes primer, primer sealer, topcoat, and reducers (hardners) which is the line of paint i used on the 71 midnight blue beetle in the pics reciently, and that was sprayed on. i talked with duplicolor indepth and they basically said that it takes about 3 months for the paint to completely dry, depending on the amount of reducers and temperature reducers, they did mention that if you add too much the paint will dry much faster but be very brittle. that's when you see a stone chip remove a "layer or sheet" of paint and not just the impact site. many modern BC/CC paint jobs do this when you get a stone chip you notice the paint came off in a large peice. this is because they try to get the paint to dry as fast as possible. also if you look at the paint "windows" they suggest on re-coating and topcoat application after primer sealer, they suggest that if you don't shoot color within 30 minutes, you MUST wait 20 days to topcoat. and 10 days or 30 mins for additional color coats. every single car i've painted and every car i've had painted professionally (about 10 cars painted professionally) have been "soft" for at least 2 months. i really don't think EXIT1965 prepped the pannel, treated every coat with the care he would have as if he were actually painting the car, and an oversight in one step could have caused the issues he is having now. anyways, i'm getting a little tired trying to defend the paint and adhesion, since i know and would bet that if i painted the car it would be awesome, instead of blaming the paint, we should concentrate on what causes the paint to bubble, and scratch off eaisly. i don't know how else to describe the durability of the paint other then expirences i've had, like just reciently i was getting in the charger, and i had it backed out a little in the garage, i was taking it out for a drive and just checked the oil. then i got into the car and hit the garage door opener by mistake, and freaked out trying to find the opener to stop it before it hit the car. long story short i lost and the one peice double width all wood door won, and came crushing down on my rear magnet mount cb antenna, and hit a curved part of the base and slid it down the trunk lid about 4" with all that force of the door, and cracked the housing on the cb mount, and dented the trunk lid. the paint did have a little scratches, which i buffed out and their almost gone. that happened about 2 weeks ago. had that been my 2002 Mustang GT, i'm sure i'd be painting the trunklid.
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 03:48 PM

Quote:



good luck on finding anything else, besides it says on the can to thin with mineral spirits, and clean with mineral spirits weather you spray or brush.



Manufacturer should know best. Granted. But you have got to really let an a mineral spirit clean up age (IMO) to hold paint. Not clean and paint right behind it Even with a mineral spirit/oil base paint. Just like trying to paint a water base paint over a wet surface - it won't stick.
As for a cleaning prep I like to use a regular paint prep or laquer thinner as a final prep. It dries dry fast with no oil film to contend with.
'69' I am not criticizing your paint or painting but trying to come up with a reason fo the blister job on the above test. Lack of cleanlines or oily base is all that I can come up with. Sorry I said anything. I did not mean to create a hassel.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 04:06 PM

Quote:


'69' I am not criticizing your paint or painting but trying to come up with a reason fo the blister job on the above test. Lack of cleanlines or oily base is all that I can come up with. Sorry I said anything. I did not mean to create a hassel.




please dont' take my reply as an insult. i respect everyone's opinion, BUT it's like people don't believe me or something, like i made it all up!!! i can say how i did it, and the crazy thing is that it works, and has worked 5 times. so the method should not be questioned, and introducing another agent to thin and clean with is starting all over from scratch, of which i have no knowledge so you're on your own. it's funny how EXIT19965 has these issues, and C38COUPE posted completely different results, and he tried scratching his paint off and could not. but we forget that it worked for me, and C38COUPE, and harp on EXIT1965's paint failures, and blame the process. i think it is difenatly a prep issue with EXIT1965's paint and a combo of not waiting long enough to let it dry. those 2 issues combined are causing a total failure of the paint.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 04:15 PM

Quote:

Hello, well I tried to scratch/gouge the Tremclad paint of the top of the can, as well as the overspill on the label, no such luck. On the rim of the can,where the paint was thick, I was able to scratch it off, and it felt softer where it was thicker. On my test piece,I COULD NOT SCRATCH/GOUGE PAINT WITH MY FINGER NAILS",I was able to scratch the paint with a sharp screwdriver, as well I dragged my 3 year olds plastic snow shovel against the whole test area and only made minor impressions into the paint. So this has been my experience with the Tremclad paint trials. As you can see this paint is tough.




That above quote is from C38COUPE's post pages ago, but i guess we all forgot it?

by the way, were are you C38COUPE?

the only possibility i can think of now is that perhaps the rustoleum is a different paint than the tremclad? but i don't know, i'm a rocket scienctist, not a chemist!!!! or at least i think i am.
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 04:18 PM

Quote:

i think it is difenatly a prep issue with EXIT1965's paint and a combo of not waiting long enough to let it dry. those 2 issues combined are causing a total failure of the paint.



Doing something that I shouldn't do - been doing some more thinking.
The more I think about it is maybe more than the fact that the spirits weren't dry but that they didn't completely 'cut' the new metal rust preservative off the new metal. That there was actually some of the metal film left on the metal not totally the falt of the 'spirit'. but just not enough effort to make sure that the surface was prepped and paint ready.
Posted By: patrick

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 04:22 PM

Quote:

I am far from a chemist or anything like that but using mineral spirits as a thinner is a a thing that I wonder about as for curing and curing time. Mineral spirits is oily and does not tent to dry or evaporate very quickly there fore extending the paint drying time. This is something that I feel will greatly effect the curing time of the paint. Oil base paints tend to take their time curing but on wood they do tent to add the preserving effect of oil to the wood.




hmm...maybe someone can try this technique, but use laquer thinner or acetone as a final wipe down and to thin it..
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 04:29 PM

Quote:


Doing something that I shouldn't do - been doing some more thinking.
The more I think about it is maybe more than the fact that the spirits weren't dry but that they didn't completely 'cut' the new metal rust preservative off the new metal. That there was actually some of the metal film left on the metal not totally the falt of the 'spirit'. but just not enough effort to make sure that the surface was prepped and paint ready.




i agree, i think it is a prep problem, and if it's not that then it's that the rustoleum is not as good as the tremclad, BUT, that being said, from what EXIT1965 has said in all his posts from the begining, i think that the rustoleum "behaves" the same as the tremclad, leading me to believe that it is very simmilar, and there must be something in his process that screwed up.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 08:37 PM

A few things.. to summarize, I painted 2 areas, one with standard cheap rustoleum and one with the professional line from Lowes.

On the standard side, I said that I didn't do the right surface prep. I sanded, then dusted off with a rag. To do it right I should have sanded, dusted with air, then cleaned with a clean rag and mineral spirits.

When I am scratching the paint with my nail, two things are happening - I am digging my nail into the (soft) paint, and then I am lifting the paint off as I drag my nail down it. Like a razor blade. I do not think there would be any problem at all if I couldn't dig my fingernail through the layers of paint to get to the surface in the first place, so I personally don't place ENTIRE blame on poor surface prep. I can rub all day long on the paint and it aint going anywhere (to answer William Hall's question). I put most of the blame on the softness of the paint, after all I can dig my nail all the way through to the surface. If I couldn't do that, my nail would rub down the paint and maybe leave a small scratch. GRANTED, enamel may take a long time to dry, so I am not closing the book quite yet - But if the material was sufficiently hard, I would NOT be able to dig my nail through the layers to the surface and the paint would sit there happily doing its job.

On the professional side, I believe there was oil or something where the bubbling took place. I think when I prepped the area, I might not have spent much time with mineral spirits in that area where it bubbled up since I was focusing on the area underneath it (on which there is no bubbling, but which has a very uneven surface on the metal so it doesn't look good). Next time I'll scrap the mineral spirits and use an actual grease remover (I have a can of stuff just for this purpose, but I tried with mineral spirits). The professional side, after only 10 days, is harder to scratch than the standard side. I think, as above, that this is a combination of better surface prep (sanding + dusting then mineral spirits cleaning) and a quicker drying paint. This is a good sign for the professional side, as well as lending some weight to the idea that the standard side surface wasn't prepped right. Admitted!

One more thing - the C38 quote above was about TREMCLAD. For instance he says he can not scrape the (unthinned) paint off his can with his fingernail, BUT I COULD. And one should not argue that the paint can (the paper label, the metal itself, whatever) was prepped differently for a can of tremclad and a can of rustoleum. I do believe, with all the regulations here in CA and in the USA, that there could be a significant difference between Rustoleum and Tremclad. What it is, I don't know.

Several people in this thread have stated that they have x,y,z, painted with rustoleum and it's now as hard as a rock. So perhaps these scratch tests shouldn't have commenced for a few more weeks, but the lesson here is it will take time to dry, and take time to properly prepare the surface.

I am certainly not questioning that the technique is a good one. The whole reason I experiemented in the first place was to see how nice it can turn out, and not having much of any paint/body experience before this, I am really learning as I go.

end of manifesto.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 08:43 PM

Try hitting part of the area with a heat gun, or heat lamp for awhile, and accelerate the cure and see what happens.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 08:49 PM

Also, I firmly believe there could be SUBSTANTIAL differences in the chemistry that affect the performance of the Tremclad vs. Rustoleum.

I have been on the receiving end of different formulations of paints, resins, gel-coats, etc., that were mandatory at our shop in So. Cal., and not at our shop I had in No. Cal. Same can, same colors, same except the difference in formula for emission control compliance, and a WORLD of difference in performance.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 10:05 PM

EXIT1965 - i agree, maybe it is a 50/50 problem with the prep and the difference in the paint. when i prep i use about a 200 and then start painting, but i allways clean the surface very well. i use the mineral spirits because i know it won't react with the paint, and it is a very good cleaner. people use mineral spirits to clean carb parts, as it does'nt eat at rubber, and i find it a excellent solvent for cleaning grease, oil, ect....it even works really well on removing overspray on chrome and lenses without damaging lenses. it's funny that at walmart they sell rustoleum and tremclad. i'm almost tempted to get some and test it. but like i said surface prep plays a huge role in adhesion. but also enamels take long to dry, as was the case for all my cars, i'd say about 4 months and it is totally and safely cured. i'd bet my paint would scratch off also, i just never tried since it was not a "test".
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/02/06 10:19 PM

this is right off the rustoleum website under their FAQ'S:

What are the differences between the Professional paints and the Stops Rust paints?
Both product lines offer the same protection and durability you have come to expect from Rust-Oleum. Professional dries in 15 minutes.

(that tells me its the same paint just with more reducers to make drying time faster)

What is the difference between the Stops Rust paints and the Farm Equipment paints?
Both products offer the same rust preventive and weather resistant qualities. The Farm Equipment colors are designed to offer visual color matches to popular equipment colors.

Tremclad on the rustoleum site for canada has no description, and seems to me to just be a re-labeled brand for canada. from this link:
http://www.flecto.com/brand.asp?frm_brand_id=41&SBL=5

they also list rustoleum and tremclad on the canadian site as well.

i'm really starting to think that this is the exact same paint as tremclad, and the professional is formulated to dry faster but is the same paint, i would use the standard since you're reducing it anyways to thin it and make it dry faster.

they also mention this on their site about tremclad: Direct to metal; primer not required on most applications
Best choice for metal

they also mention this:
Contaminates:
Residual contaminates left on the surface by improper surface preparation may cause slow curing and eventual adhesion problems with the overcoat. Contaminates such as waxes, oils, silicone, stearates, etc. will cause slow curing problems.

Remedy:
Make sure the surface is cleaned and prepared properly before the coating is applied. Slow curing coatings may have to be stripped off and the surface thoroughly cleaned with wax strippers, solvent washes, etc. before recoating. (Sanding alone will usually not remove these contaminates adequately.)

and this:
High temperature/low humidity:
High temperature and low humidity promote rapid evaporation of solvents from the applied coating causing a quick set and cure. May cause brush marks to be present because the product cures before it can self-level; difficulty in applying the product, rapid surface cure or skinning that may prevent the evaporation of solvents from the rest of the coating, resulting in an overall soft cure or easily marred finish.

Remedy:
Thin the product 10% with mineral spirits to aid application and slow down the dry time to promote good self-leveling, apply the product during cooler parts of the day such as early morning or late afternoon.

and this:
Tips for enamels
These brilliantly colored enamels can give you a high-gloss look or a clean, matte color. You can blend colors to achieve a wide range of hues-and add up to eight ounces of universal colorants per gallon for even more color tints.

Three-Step Application

You only need to use a primer when you're coloring fiberglass, galvanized metal, or aluminum.
If you're using a brush, flow the enamel onto the surface and don't over-brush. To roll on, use a short-nap enamel roller. For large flat, smooth surfaces, you can use a short-nap pad applicator.
Apply enough coats to cover thoroughly and provide a smooth finish.


Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 12:15 AM

"take duplicolor's line of paint which includes primer, primer sealer, topcoat, and reducers (hardners) which is the line of paint i used on the 71 midnight blue beetle in the pics reciently, and that was sprayed on."

Reducer and hardener/activator are not the same thing. If you used extra reducer thinking it was also a hardener, that's why it took 3 months to dry.

What's the part number of this
all-in-one reducer/hardener?
To my knowledge, Duplicolor does not have a hardener at all? The hardener/activator has to be sourced from another supplier which is why I recommended Omni. If I have that wrong, set me straight.
Posted By: ONEBADBIRD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 12:32 AM

Who wait a minute here this post is debating roll on and rattle can paint jobs why are we arguing about single stage acrylic paint jobs? Lets stick to debating about rustoleum and tremclad out comes, I find it much more interesting. Keep the info coming you fellow rolling brethren. Jay
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 01:12 AM

Quote:

"take duplicolor's line of paint which includes primer, primer sealer, topcoat, and reducers (hardners) which is the line of paint i used on the 71 midnight blue beetle in the pics reciently, and that was sprayed on."

Reducer and hardener/activator are not the same thing. If you used extra reducer thinking it was also a hardener, that's why it took 3 months to dry.

What's the part number of this
all-in-one reducer/hardener?
To my knowledge, Duplicolor does not have a hardener at all? The hardener/activator has to be sourced from another supplier which is why I recommended Omni. If I have that wrong, set me straight.



sorry, the reducer was not a hardner, your right, they don't have a hardner, i just did'nt want to go into details about single stage, and what i ment to convey was that even single stage paint does'nt fully cure until about 3 months, then you can wax it, buff it, ect......

Quote:

Who wait a minute here this post is debating roll on and rattle can paint jobs why are we arguing about single stage acrylic paint jobs? Lets stick to debating about rustoleum and tremclad out comes, I find it much more interesting. Keep the info coming you fellow rolling brethren. Jay



i'm lost, i never discussed rattle can paintjobs. this car was painted with single stage process in my garage, with a compressor, HVLP (high volume, low pressure) paint gun:


but i agree, we should discuss the tremclad/rustoleum paint process as i'm not in any way saying that the roller and tremclad method is better, just offering an alternative and sharing my expirences.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 01:41 AM

Still following this post, but have taken a different approach. I to couldn't find Temclad. I purchased Martin Senour Tough Coat Industrial Enamel. I thinned it down about 20% and rolled it on, perfect. Sanded between 2nd & 3-4 coat with 400 grit. Sanded between 4 & 5-6 coat with 600 grit. Final sanded to 1500 grit. After 2 days, "polished" by hand with Turtle Wax Polishing Wax. Look great. I haven't tried to scrach etc the paint, as I to believe it needs to harden for several more weeks. But right now I find it hard to stick my fingernail into the paint. I am painting in my garage, Temp about 60 humidy about 15 %. I also use a hair dryer to start the curing process but let the coats dry for 2-3 hrs between coats. I'll let you know what happens in a couple of weeks, Thanks
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 01:45 AM

Quote:

Still following this post, but have taken a different approach. I to couldn't find Temclad. I purchased Martin Senour Tough Coat Industrial Enamel. I thinned it down about 20% and rolled it on, perfect. Sanded between 2nd & 3-4 coat with 400 grit. Sanded between 4 & 5-6 coat with 600 grit. Final sanded to 1500 grit. After 2 days, "polished" by hand with Turtle Wax Polishing Wax. Look great. I haven't tried to scrach etc the paint, as I to believe it needs to harden for several more weeks. But right now I find it hard to stick my fingernail into the paint. I am painting in my garage, Temp about 60 humidy about 15 %. I also use a hair dryer to start the curing process but let the coats dry for 2-3 hrs between coats. I'll let you know what happens in a couple of weeks, Thanks




awesome, great to see someone else is trying it too, hey, be a pal and post a pic would ya'?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 01:55 AM

Hey Thanks. I will try to post a picture when my teenage son shows me how. I am a little out of the loop on electronics/computers etc. My wife showed me how to get on the Internet, but nothing else.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 02:05 AM

Good job - I too think any of the good DTM paints are a candidate for a try with the process.

Some of the DTM paints don't have adequate UV inhibitors in them for exposed surfaces though, so you need to check what you are getting.
Posted By: Texican

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 02:12 AM

(cole18cars) Pictures - Pictures - Pictures...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 02:17 AM

69Charger - Exit - and everyone else involved with this thread,

I've been following this thread for several weeks now and I finally decided to sign up to this board to chime in my 2 cents worth. First and foremost, I want to thank everyone who has taken not only the time to offer thier opinions and advice, but to give a couple of special "thank you"s to those how have taken the time to experiment with this idea. Most of all, an Xtra-cudos to 69Charger not only for bringing this to light, but also for his patience in sticking with it (the thread) and the obvious dedication for taking the time to answer everyones questions - and I do mean EVERY question sent his way!

As an added note to all of you here - I picked up this thread mid-stream from someone who posted it on another auto make forum - Datsun Z cars to be exact. I gotta tell you, there are quite a few members of our boards keeping a very close eye on this, and all are not only interested, but also considering a bit of experimenting as well - myself included. I have a '73 240Z that I'm slowly getting roadworthy that is in need of a repaint. This car will never be "perfect", at least as long as I own it. Perfect cars mean huge $$$, which I certainly do not have. But that doesnt stop me, or many of my Z brothers, from wanting a decent looking paintjob on a bluecollar budget. I'm hoping that in the near future I can post some results of my own to share with this forum, and also hoping that from all that I've read and learned here already that it will be useful.

I guess what I really wanted to say was to let you all know that this thread has travelled far beyond this forum, and has stirred quite a bit more interest than you might realize. Keep up the excellent work!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 02:34 AM

Welcome aboard Rick!

Cole - what color paint did you get? Im looking forward to your pics too..
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 02:48 AM

Quote:

69Charger - Exit - and everyone else involved with this thread,

I've been following this thread for several weeks now and I finally decided to sign up to this board to chime in my 2 cents worth. First and foremost, I want to thank everyone who has taken not only the time to offer thier opinions and advice, but to give a couple of special "thank you"s to those how have taken the time to experiment with this idea. Most of all, an Xtra-cudos to 69Charger not only for bringing this to light, but also for his patience in sticking with it (the thread) and the obvious dedication for taking the time to answer everyones questions - and I do mean EVERY question sent his way!

As an added note to all of you here - I picked up this thread mid-stream from someone who posted it on another auto make forum - Datsun Z cars to be exact. I gotta tell you, there are quite a few members of our boards keeping a very close eye on this, and all are not only interested, but also considering a bit of experimenting as well - myself included. I have a '73 240Z that I'm slowly getting roadworthy that is in need of a repaint. This car will never be "perfect", at least as long as I own it. Perfect cars mean huge $$$, which I certainly do not have. But that doesnt stop me, or many of my Z brothers, from wanting a decent looking paintjob on a bluecollar budget. I'm hoping that in the near future I can post some results of my own to share with this forum, and also hoping that from all that I've read and learned here already that it will be useful.

I guess what I really wanted to say was to let you all know that this thread has travelled far beyond this forum, and has stirred quite a bit more interest than you might realize. Keep up the excellent work!




honestly it's people like you that make comments like that; that keep me going. thankyou for taking the time to read it ALL. i like z's too, just no space in the garage for all my obsessions, and then there's that wife issue, you know the one. lol i have to be quick, she might be watching, lol. i saw a sweet z last week and wanted it. as we drove by i was looking out the window and outaa nowhere "slap" and she said don't even think about it. i said "yes master" lol i like all cars, in my stable i have a 69 charger, 74 vw beetle, 2001 vw beetle sport turbo, and a 2002 mustang gt. anything old or fast i like it all. i'm not just a hard core mopar eat/sleep/crap/sex mopar guy. anyways, welcome, show us some pics, and try it out.
Posted By: 440trk

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 03:17 AM

Quote:

Remedy:
Thin the product 10% with mineral spirits to aid application and slow down the dry time to promote good self-leveling, apply the product during cooler parts of the day such as early morning or late afternoon.





If I am reading this correctly...mineral spirits SLOW DOWN the dry time. Is it possible that Exit1965 (and others) may be using a little TOO much mineral spirit, and thereby causing the excessive dry time?

I've been following this thread since day one or two...and I'm looking forward to experimenting on my plow truck this spring!!

thanks to all involved!
Posted By: matts69Dart

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 03:32 AM

Hey all, I have been following this thread since day one and am anxious to try it out on my Dart. Just waiting for the weather to decide if it is going to be cold or hot. I think I may have found another paint to throw into the pot. While at Lowes, I found a marine-grade rustoleum paint for metal. The color assortment is not real great, but does have the color I am interested in. My question is do you think the marine-grade might be a bit heavier duty due to the elements of salt water and sunlight? I am going to try it when the weather breaks. Opinions? Matt
Posted By: noisydart

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 03:34 AM

69 Chargeryeehaw- another pat on the back! I actuallly was the one that
5 starred this post originally because I saw the potential. Haven't played with it yet as I'm busy getting a Dart mechanically ready for Vegas, but I will be trying it on a white 68 Barracuda.
I have sprayed before, but this is tuff to do now in the People's Republic of Kalifornia.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 04:51 AM

Excellent post charger69, I registered due to the information within this post. I don't have a Mopar but, I do find this method of painting interesting and I am going to give it a try on my mini stock race car. I will be using a product called wash and wipe to clean the car and self etching primer. I know it says on the can not required but, I don't want any probs with adhearing to the metal. I will keep you guys posted on the progress. Oh almost forgot, I used tremclad spray bomb on the inside of the car with no issues, and I used wash and wipe on everything. It gets rid of any oils or other contaminants.
Posted By: ONEBADBIRD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 04:52 AM


"i'm lost, i never discussed rattle can paintjobs."


Hey 69 charger I owe you an apology. I know that you never mentioned the use of a rattle can in your Beautiful paint jobs. I just got carried away from reading other fellas post. How they mentioned the possibilities of maybe using them for all the nooks and crannies on the car. I may try it and I may not who knows. I do know I'm sold on this whole idea of what this thread is about. I'm just excited and can't wait to start getting a feel for this painting technique and putting some color down. I think this post will be just crammed full of pictures when the weather turns to spring and we get some decent outside weather. Thats whats holding me back as I think others too. I know you have said you painted in the cold before but my garage is pack full for the winter and I would rather wetsand outide on the driveway rather than indoors. Anyways my hats off to you "O'Wise One" (69charger) did not mean to put words in your mouth I was just getting excited and carried away. Till next time Jay.
Posted By: Q5RR

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 08:45 PM

Great thread! I've been following since week two. This shows the true spirit of hot rodding which is often lost in the high dollar restorations. This method could put my car back on the street months ahead of time. Thank you and keep the updates coming!

I will try this on my 69RR within the next month or so - after some minor rust repair and prep - and post my progress. My concern is being able to get close to the Q5 Seafoam Turquoise color. It will never be a points car so it doesn't have to be perfect, but the closer the better.

As far as I can tell, the Rustoleum in the US can't tinted, but if I drive up to Windsor, I should be able to pick up some Tremclad which can be matched to my paint sample. Am I right ? Any suggestions?
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 10:54 PM

Did this thread get censored or what there are some posts missing?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 11:13 PM

What was missing?

As far as seafoam green, you can probably mix the color yourself with a can of green and a can of blue..
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/03/06 11:31 PM

There were several posts towards the end complementing 69chargeryeehaa for all the insight and time spent on this string.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/04/06 12:50 AM

Quote:

Did this thread get censored or what there are some posts missing?




Quote:

There were several posts towards the end complementing 69chargeryeehaa for all the insight and time spent on this string.




i don't want to and start another , but basically there was a that thought he was close to , anyways things got even more , one of the moderators what was happening while and he was all like , next thing i know the posts were , anyways there was lots of but we all and we all went out for a and had a fat , one big happy family again
Posted By: Diego_Ted

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/04/06 01:02 AM

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/04/06 01:52 AM

Hey. I didn't forget to post pictures, just that I,my son needs to find the CD that lets us post the pics. If we can't find it here at home, I will send from work on Monday. By the way, I did try the fingernail test. No problem. I should say here how I prepared the Plymouth. It is a 39 that I stripped to bare steel and or original paint. I sanded, filled and sprayed with ACE bomb primer. The car has sat for over 8 months with this finish. I think that this length of time has let the laquer cure, so no outgassing is occuring. I also have found a great way to 'spray' this thinned down paint for door jambs etc. It is a product called Preval. It cost about $11.00 for the kit. It will spray 16 oz. with one cannister. Works great. Anyway, I am trying my best to get my pics. on the site. Thanks. P.S. I am using Granite for my color. It is a lite green/grey color. Thanks.
Posted By: Kam*Kuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/04/06 01:58 AM

Quote:


i don't want to and start another , but basically there was a that thought he was close to , anyways things got even more , one of the moderators what was happening while and he was all like , next thing i know the posts were , anyways there was lots of but we all and we all went out for a and had a fat , one big happy family again



Funny ian
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/04/06 02:31 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Did this thread get censored or what there are some posts missing?




Quote:

There were several posts towards the end complementing 69chargeryeehaa for all the insight and time spent on this string.




i don't want to and start another , but basically there was a that thought he was close to , anyways things got even more , one of the moderators what was happening while and he was all like , next thing i know the posts were , anyways there was lots of but we all and we all went out for a and had a fat , one big happy family again



I meant those that were at the end of teh thread this morning complimenting you. Not the ones that were cut in the middle of teh thread. Or was something that we said treading thin ice on these also about thanking you for persevering and giving an low buck alternative to high dollar paint jobs. And that I also am glad for your post and am going to give it a shot when the weather permits. I don't know why this should PO anyone it is no different than all the threads on mechanical short cuts and money saving tips taking away from the mechanics and parts sellers.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/04/06 10:50 PM

A question for the paint guys: I happened to be near a Home Depot across town and thought I'd stop in and see what they had any of the Rustoleum Professional paints as the local Lowes and Home Depot only had a very limited color selection. My wife spotted 2 gallons of the tintable base professional hidden behind the rest on the bottom shelf (irony?) so I snapped em up. At this point, now that I have a choice of color, I'm not sure what color I want but at least I have the base paint so I figure I can tint it when I decide. The question I have is, does this need to be tinted with any special-Rustoleum tints, or can anyone tint it? I have a Benjamin Moore store right around the corner, or do I need to go back to the Home Depot to get a Rustoleum tint? Did any of the folks who taked to Rustoleum ask about the tinting?

While I was at it, I got a small quart size of the Sunrise Red to experiemnt with on the garage beer fridge, even got a smaller 1/2 pint size of gloss black for some beer fridge racing stripes I figure the fridge looks bad as it is, I can't make it look worse, or if I do who cares!
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/05/06 01:39 AM

Quote:

A question for the paint guys: I happened to be near a Home Depot across town and thought I'd stop in and see what they had any of the Rustoleum Professional paints as the local Lowes and Home Depot only had a very limited color selection. My wife spotted 2 gallons of the tintable base professional hidden behind the rest on the bottom shelf (irony?) so I snapped em up. At this point, now that I have a choice of color, I'm not sure what color I want but at least I have the base paint so I figure I can tint it when I decide. The question I have is, does this need to be tinted with any special-Rustoleum tints, or can anyone tint it? I have a Benjamin Moore store right around the corner, or do I need to go back to the Home Depot to get a Rustoleum tint? Did any of the folks who taked to Rustoleum ask about the tinting?

While I was at it, I got a small quart size of the Sunrise Red to experiemnt with on the garage beer fridge, even got a smaller 1/2 pint size of gloss black for some beer fridge racing stripes I figure the fridge looks bad as it is, I can't make it look worse, or if I do who cares!




off the rustoleum site:

Tips for enamels
These brilliantly colored enamels can give you a high-gloss look or a clean, matte color. You can blend colors to achieve a wide range of hues-and add up to eight ounces of universal colorants per gallon for even more color tints.

that should answer your question lol good luck, take some pics of the fridge, hope it does'nt look better then your ride or you'll be posting a new post titled "anyone put a hemi in a beer fridge???
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/05/06 04:04 AM

Quote:

My wife spotted 2 gallons of the tintable base professional hidden behind the rest on the bottom shelf (irony?) so I snapped em up...




It's not often I need to quote myself, but in this case I do. Hopefully this might clear things up a bit as I was mistaken in my excitement of finding a base tint on the shelf. I did, in fact, find a basecoat: Rustoleum INDUSTRIAL (not Professional as I had thought) ENAMAL 7307 Masstone Tint Base, to be exact. I went searching on Rustleum's website but could not find it. What I did find was the 7400 series INDUSTRIAL ENAMAL, and as best I can tell, it's the same paint (or at least the latest version of same). As for tinting, the site does say this:

"Rust-Oleum Industrial Enamel Tint Base High Gloss Finishes are general purpose, modified alkyd tint bases designed for interior and exterior surfaces. They have excellent resistance to general weathering, mild chemical fumes and light abrasion.

These tint bases are designed to be used with Rust-Oleum Tint System 2020 Series Colorants only. The product is intended for application only after the addition of a colorant."

So... the good news is it appears to be an alkyd enamal (modified) paint, which if I have ready the thread right, is closest to what Tremclad is. The big unknown is whether or not the Home Depot has this "Rust-Oleum Tint System 2020 Series Colorants" on site. One would THINK they would, since they carry the paint. But I'm not holding my breath on that. Unfortunately my experience with these big home improvement chain stores is that thier personnel seem to range from excellent to oblivious. Guess I'll just have to hold onto my reciept on this one till I get someone who knows what they're talking about.
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/05/06 05:09 AM

How long do you wait between coats? Just sanded an old hood and am getting ready for coat number 1.
Registered because I saw this on another forum and it looks really promising.
David
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/05/06 06:20 AM

Rick - you might try to find a Kelly Moore in your area (if they are even in Florida, I don't know) but out here in Sacramento, there is one Kelly Moore which carries those industrial Rustoleum products. I am sure they would have the tint you need, so you might try to find a KM in your area (or check the rustoleum industrial site to find out where to buy in FL).
Posted By: GoDartGo

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/05/06 08:35 PM

Okay my turn.....
I've read this whole thread and I either missed or didn't see anything about a Viscosity Cup.
This would help with the mixing by timing how fast your mix goes threw the cup. Then you will be able to get it the same every time and that will help in the drying time too.

sounds as if getting the air out via vacuume makes for a better seal and stonger bond. I'm learning so much here LOL.

After the Mods save this thread and lock it, can they up date it with any result from members who
want to ad new findings that will help?
I want to try some different things I've read here
but it won't be until this summer.

BIG MOPARTS KUDOS to all you guys who are trying this and to
69Charger for letting us in on this.

Now if it works on my Dart Sport, I have my eye on the gold 71 Scamp survivor in my garage.........just kidding.

Shawn
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 03:16 AM

I am not even close to painting a car, but I was in home depot today and could not help myself. I picked up a small can of the rustoleum "aluminum" color, foam rollers, mineral spirits, and sandpaper.

I have a 2000 for Van that was an airborne express truck. it got hit on one side and they fixed it, but not too well, paint sucks. I am going to try this on the bottom of the drivers door and see how it turns out
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 01:26 PM

Quote:

I am not even close to painting a car, but I was in home depot today and could not help myself. I picked up a small can of the rustoleum "aluminum" color, foam rollers, mineral spirits, and sandpaper.

I have a 2000 for Van that was an airborne express truck. it got hit on one side and they fixed it, but not too well, paint sucks. I am going to try this on the bottom of the drivers door and see how it turns out




don't use that "aluminum" color, the paint is totally different, try it on something else first, if it is the same as the tremclad aluminum then return it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 01:44 PM

Hello

I have tried 69s method on a test panel Using BPS Tractor paint, With very good results! I tried taking some pictures yesterday but it was raining. I will post some pictures of my test panel, and the paint I used soon. Yes the paint is a little "soft" but that how enamels are, they take a while to get rock hard, but there is no way I could scrape any of it off at this point.

Forrest
Posted By: davesdartgt

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 02:04 PM

I just called the Canada version Tremco company & said they wouldn't ship the Tremclad Automotive paint to the US.

Does anyone know where I can buy the Tremclad Automotive paint by the gallon in the US?

I guess I could drive across the border in Detroit next time we are there, but that might not be for awhile.

I was planning on painting my 95 Ram with it this spring.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 02:58 PM

I just called Tremclad in canada, and once i told them that i painted my cars with it they said "are you the guy with the cars on the internet, the orange ones?" funny they knew all about me!!!! i hope i get some royalities if they market this product!!!! anyways, they did mention that the rustoleum and tremclad are both alkyd based oil enamels. and that they are basically the same product and labeled for the us, but they are made in different plants. they said that the paint should dry fully in 14 days, but mineral spirits actually slows the drying process. however they are basing this on very heavy coats, typically saying that full coverage is acheived in 1 to 2 coats. but when i paint i don't get full coverage until on or after the 3rd coat. with aprox 6 coats in total, i think my layers of paint would be less then 1 heavy coat of the tremclad when you also factor in wetsanding. but i really think they don't know when painting on cars, since they never really tested it. they also mentioned not using any hardners, that it is not designed to be used with the paint. what all this means to you rustoleum users i don't know, but they said that the 2 are very simmilar products if not the same. also i know i'm repeating myself but, no matter what you paint using any paint even automotive (like singel stage acrylic enamels) they all take 3 months to fully harden, and that's exactly what i've noticed with the tremclad AND all 6 single stage paintjobs i've sprayed on over the years.
Posted By: davesdartgt

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 03:59 PM

I want to buy the Tremclad since this is what you used & seems to have held up well. I guess I could try rustoleum on a fender I have laying around & see what happens, but don't want to wait months to see if it cures & doesn't peel.

I also, saw on the rustoleum website that there is a Tremclad Automotive paint. Is this what you used?
http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=549&SBL=5
It doesn't say if it comes in the gallon roll-on type.

Here is the tint base in a gallon roll-on type
http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=555&SBL=5
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 04:39 PM

http://www.matrixsystem.com/
Posted By: davesdartgt

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 05:03 PM

I'm looking to spend $50 total. Once you start buying hardeners, reducers, etc automotive paint is alot more expensive than a gallon of Rustoleum & a gallon of mineral spirits. The truck is only worth $3500 tops. The Challenger will get painted with top of the line PPG, but the Ram will get Rustoleum or Tremclad at this point.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 05:08 PM

Quote:

I want to buy the Tremclad since this is what you used & seems to have held up well. I guess I could try rustoleum on a fender I have laying around & see what happens, but don't want to wait months to see if it cures & doesn't peel.





It shouldn't take months. The "professional" rustoleum I used, at this point in time (I think approx 2 weeks after painting) I can't scratch off to the surface. I can put scratches in it, but I can't peel it off the surface. It can only get harder and will probably do so according to what I've read/heard. I can still scratch off the standard rustoleum, but I think there were surface prep issues there. I think I will use the professional stuff when I get around to painting my Dart. hopefully I can get started within a month from now as I want to get all the bodywork done before I paint anything. The painting will be the easy part..

To be safe you could use the professional rustoleum which you can get in cans (quarts and some colors in gallons, as well as sprays) at Lowes. If you apply it right it should not peel by 2 weeks and (I hope!) be rock hard after a month or so.
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 05:13 PM

Quote:

but they are made in different plants. they said that the paint should dry fully in 14 days, but mineral spirits actually slows the drying process.



Guess that my theory on the mineral spirits slowing the drying/curing process wasn't too far out of line at that.
Posted By: slantvaliant

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 05:33 PM

I'm using Rustoleum Professional in Gloss White, with acetone as a thinner. I'm using Professional because that's what Walmart had onhand. So far, it's working well for me. But then, I'm easy to please!

The problems so far are mostly in my roller technique. Practice is making me better at getting the paint on without creating more work later.

Advil helps with the sanding!

The car (1964 Valiant four-door) has worn badly faded white paint, grey primer, and surface rust for years. I drove it to work and back, worked on mechanical issues, and let the finish slide.

It already looks a LOT better!
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 08:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

but they are made in different plants. they said that the paint should dry fully in 14 days, but mineral spirits actually slows the drying process.



Guess that my theory on the mineral spirits slowing the drying/curing process wasn't too far out of line at that.




in a way it is yes and no. when you thin with the mineral spirits it allows you to apply a really thin coat, which dries faster then a thicker coat, the paint is based from mineral spirits, meaning it is a ingreadient in the paint, and adding only about 10% to thin does'nt really effect the drying time much.
I spoke again to tremclad and they offered to send me a case of paint and some clear coat in brush from(liquid). after a long discussion basically the rustoleum stop rust is a alkyd based paint but is manufactured in the us and tremclad is made in canada, he said the paints are simmilar, but they use different resins obviously because of where they are made. but one interesting topic came out of the 30 mins conversation, and that was with the clear coat. tremclad offers a clear coat that is a lacquer/enamel type paint that is reccommended to use over the tremclad rust paint, and that it should be thinned with lacquer thinner, and not mineral spirits. when i expiremented with the clear coat i used mineral spirits, and he said that it would actually remove some shine using it, probabally why i did'nt notice a difference when i tested it. but he said when thinned with lacquer thinner that the reflective properties of the finish at 60degrees was 90%!!!! that's like really high, and should be really really shiny. they also use the clear coat to paint on chrome, brass, copper, ect...as a protective coating, it also has uv inhibitors as does the tremclad rust paint. it's used to enhance the shine on rust paint, as well as for example a new mail box that is brass, the clear protects it from tarnishing. so i think it is time for me to expirement with the clear coat. with the clear i really think it would be comparable to BC/CC in lusture/finish.
ummmmm time to clear the cars?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 08:44 PM

re the clearcoat - that would be AWESOME. The question I have though is how the clearcoat would be applied. When I was doing the roller process with the enamel, the coat wasn't nice and smooth (or free of dog hair) until after wetsanding - and then the shine was gone. Before wetsanding, the shine was nice but the surface still needed flattening.

So if you roll the clearcoat on, would you have to wetsand it also, and would that affect the gloss (I'm guessing "yes")?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 09:10 PM

Quote:

re the clearcoat - that would be AWESOME. The question I have though is how the clearcoat would be applied. When I was doing the roller process with the enamel, the coat wasn't nice and smooth (or free of dog hair) until after wetsanding - and then the shine was gone. Before wetsanding, the shine was nice but the surface still needed flattening.

So if you roll the clearcoat on, would you have to wetsand it also, and would that affect the gloss (I'm guessing "yes")?




on the clear coat, no, wetsanding would not effect the end shine. unless you use a really coarse grit, typically a really good traditional paint job involves wetsanding and polishing to perfect it, so it is nothing new. the purpose of thinning any paint by the way has a few purposes, thinner paint promotes "self-leveling", increases pot life slightly, and increases the "workability" of the paint so that there is virtually no high/low spots or roller marks.
I have virtually no dust/dirt/hair in my paint, that is strictly a function on how clean your enviroment is. if you are getting dirt using a roller, you'd go crazy if you were spraying the paint on, because you aggitate the air and get huge dust/dirt/hair issues unless you have a booth, or make a ventelation system that keeps a positive pressure in the room so that air is allways going out and not in, bringing dust/dirt/hair on your work. before i paint i clean my garage, hose it out, and clean the car really well. then once the door is closed, i don't open it until it's done. before i paint i also use a "tack cloth" which is a sticky cloth used in the auto body industry to remove all dust/dirt/hair from the surface (usually costs a $1), i clean each pannel just before i paint. the key is keeping your area as clean as possible. i think i have 1 cat hair (thick one, must be a a$$ hair!!!) in the paint that came out when wetsanding. no dust/dirt in the paint at all. and the surface is perty much very smooth, wetsanding just makes it much better. if you're getting orange peel or marks form the roller, either work faster, or thin the paint more, or do both. also the wetsanding process does not introduce any new dust/dirt if you clean the car while it's wet with a shammy to remove all sanding dust. so the whole process is probally the best way to paint in your garage and have really good results. oh and don't let your dog in the garage while/during painting.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 09:18 PM

also EXIT1965- i discussed your scratch results with the tremclad tech dude, and he thinks it is soley a function of surface prep/contamination. if the paint came off in layers then that's a different story. but it goes right down to the surface. also he said it takes 14 days to dry fully, and 2-3 months to fully cure in hardness. that is typical with any auto paint.
i think if the paint is good enough for a rusty mail box which sits in the elements 24/7/365 without washing and waxing, it's good enough for my car!!!
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/06/06 11:46 PM

Quote:

re the clearcoat - that would be AWESOME. The question I have though is how the clearcoat would be applied. When I was doing the roller process with the enamel, the coat wasn't nice and smooth (or free of dog hair) until after wetsanding - and then the shine was gone. Before wetsanding, the shine was nice but the surface still needed flattening.

So if you roll the clearcoat on, would you have to wetsand it also, and would that affect the gloss (I'm guessing "yes")?




call me crazy but couln't you spray a clear coat on? I would think you could use a small hvlp gun or something and do a panel at a time since there is no color to get even....again it opens up the can of worms of masking the whole car, super controlled clean environment and fumes...
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/07/06 12:34 AM





call me crazy but couln't you spray a clear coat on? I would think you could use a small hvlp gun or something and do a panel at a time since there is no color to get even....again it opens up the can of worms of masking the whole car, super controlled clean environment and fumes...




i guess you could, but there's no real advantage except for more work. if you have the equipment and a understanding wife, then i'd say go for it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/07/06 01:53 AM

Project "Beer Fridge" notes:

1. Project gets underway today. Cleaned the fridge well, wiped down with mineral spirits and let dry.
2. Wetsanded with 400 grit paper to give the paint something to grip.
3. Wiped down again with mineral spirits and let dry well.
4. Mix Paint: It's a warm Florida day (~80 degrees, but dry by S. FL standards) so I mix the paint with ~10% mineral sprits. Seems pretty darn thin to me.
5. Of note, although the fridge is clean, there are a significant number of surface rust spots, most noticably on the top from condensation when opening the freezer. Beer Fridge has been living a very comfortable life in the garage for several years now, but as it is S. Florida, it does get VERY humid in here. I chose not to sand down the rust spots to clean metal because A. I'm lazy and excited to get going, and B. because I wanted to see just how the Rustoleum would handle these spots.
6. Main Door - Okay, here we go... BUBBLES! More bubbles, and more bubbles.
They are not going away, not after a light pressure re-roll either. A good stiff blast of breath pops them and the paint starts to lay down. Whew! Half way thru the door and I'm beginning to think the paint is too thick - or is it my technique? I press on.
7. Top door - trying to work a little faster and the results are better. Loading up more paint on the roller and trying NOT to reroll so much (causing in effect a second coat). This is where I realize I'm starting to make a mess of things, not with the rolling but with my brush technique. Cut-in is not my strong suit and it shows grossly here. Drips and sags from too much paint, then I remember 69Chargers advice; roller in one hand, brush in the other. Getting better... you are wise, oh Master 69Charger.
8. Left Side - Load roller more, roll faster. Hmmm, this is starting to work better. Still have lots of bubbles but by now I'm huffing and puffing away to get them all popped, and the results are starting to look much better! Note to self: quit smoking cigarettes... SOON!
9. Top surface - MUCH easier to do a horizontal surface! Even with te considerable rust up here, I can see much better results.
10. Left side - Ironically, this side comes out best. Ironic because "Beer Fridge" sits up next to the water heater and there's no manuevering room on this side. Because of this, I take the tact of REALLY loading up the roller and working very fast. Get as much on as I can and get it spread out as quickly as I can. Huff, puff, and the paint really statrs to lay down nicely. Lesson learned? By going quicker I'm not "pulling" the paint up with the roller as much.

First coat done, time to assess: Time for my "WTF AM I DOING!" moment! Standing back, the fridge looks... Horrible. Verging on frightening. BUT... It admitedly did a rather nasty job on the first door, and looking at the final side, things look much better. Wait an hour and re-assess.

Okay, it STILL looks bad but I'm ready to press on. I SHOULD really stop here and sand down what I've done, but I decide to press on.

11. Mix Paint for coat #2 - I basically doubled the mineral spirits to ~20-25% this time. MUCH thinner, really starts to feel like water this time around. Yes Master, Grasshopper is learning.
12. Second Coat - what a world of difference! Still getting the bubbling but only for a few quick seconds. Even the slightest breath disperses them and the paint really lays down quick and smooth. If not, a very light pressure re-roll and slight puff is all it takes.
13. Entire surface takes half as much time as coat #1 and the results are much better.

Clean up and done for the night.

Evaluation: learned quite a bit. First and foremost; THIN THAT FRIGGIN PAINT! Even while mixing batch number two I thought to myself "this will never work, it's too damned thin..." WRONG! I can definitely see that coat number one was too thick, and that it will take at least 3-4 coats using the thinner batch to completely cover the underlaying color (white), but the benefit is that the thinner coat goes on MUCH smoother with less trouble. Less trouble, and less sanding, which is what I will be doing ALOT of after that first coat mess I made. But I had the wife give me an honest opinion, and looking at the final LEFT side with two coats - unsanded - even she saw the potential.

Gonna take some photos but hold off posting them until I get a chance to wetsand first (don't want to scare off anyone just yet).
Posted By: ONEBADBIRD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/07/06 02:22 AM

Got done doing the famous scratch test to the seat frames I painted out in my garage two weeks ago in 40 degree weather. The paint was Rustoleum (non industrial) mixed with mineral spirits just to keep paint thin and workable (roll and brushable) in the cool weather. The only prep work done to these seat frames was using a wire wheel to hit the heavy rust spots I could get to which wasnt much. Then I painted over bare metal and rust with no primering done. Now after the two weeks even though the weather has not been above the 40's they are perfectly dry. Some areas that I scratched with my fingernail test peeled right off which was where the paint went on very thin and the metal underneath was almost the texture of glass very smooth. Other areas I scraped and scraped and the paint never came off but just got a dull appearance which any paint would with the pressure and force I was using. So this leads me to believe that with the proper prep like roughing up the metal or if your going over a previous paint job roughing the paint that this paint will stick to anything. As well as getting a decent layer of paint put down maybe? This test was only done on some seat frames that will be covered in the next few weeks anyhow. I figured why not give it a try and stop some rust in the process. Like I said before there was virtually no prep done except wire wheeling some heavy rust That I could get at. I put it on in one coat and with no wet sanding afterwards. Jay (Until the next thing that gets the Rustoleum treatment) Will post results!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/07/06 05:02 AM

Nice Rick. Sounds like you diagnosed right that the first coat was too thick. Its very tempting to want to slather it on thick, otherwise there's not much to look at.

Are you willing to experiment with the clear coat too? I need to pick up a can of that and try rolling over my standard rustoleum area..
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/07/06 07:14 AM

Just got done wetsanding my test hood after the first two coats. Have never done painting or wetsanding, so I don't know how I'm doing so far, but it doesn't look too bad I guess. I'll have to get some pictures taken. How smooth should it be after you wetsand? I used 800.
Thanks,
David
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/07/06 01:32 PM

Quote:

Just got done wetsanding my test hood after the first two coats. Have never done painting or wetsanding, so I don't know how I'm doing so far, but it doesn't look too bad I guess. I'll have to get some pictures taken. How smooth should it be after you wetsand? I used 800.
Thanks,
David




It should be completely smooth after wetsanding, otherwise the next few coats will be on a non-smooth surface and it wont come out right and you'll have to sand through all those extra coats. Sand enough to get it smooth now, and be patient with the # of coats it takes, e.g. at one point after 4 coats I sanded it way down because it wasn't smooth- then did 4 more coats and it came out smooth in the end.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/07/06 04:42 PM

Ricklandia - funny post. but it shows why you have to expirement with the process until you get all the bug out and are comfortable doing it. seems like you're going thru the typical learning process. maybe you should concentrate on only the door for example so you don't create more work or yourself. your in a very hot and humid climate, which is the worst conditions to paint in, and that's why using more mineral spirits to thin makes it eaiser to lay down because you increase the pot life and work time of the paint. with the bubbles, make sure you really mix the paint well for like 10 mins before you paint, it looks like it's mixed, but it's not, mix more. then after you put the paint on, let it sit for 2-5 mins, then roller with virtually no pressure. a little blow should get rid of them. the main thing is that you have to refrain from applying heavey coats, and apply thin coats. i know it's hard, but try!!! seems like your getting the hang of it and you'll soon be a expert!!! also when you mix the paint in your tray, if you se and bubbles in the paint after you've mixed it and loaded up the roller, use a peice of paper towel and skim the surface to remove the bubbles. avoid pushing really hard and going fast when loading up and squeezing out the paint of the roller as that creates bubbles too. i load up the roller good at first, then just dip it in the paint and have lots of paint in the roller and spread it on the surface. hope i've explained it well, hard to describe it in text, much eaiser in person. remember, your ratios of mineral spirits are very different due to your climate, i hope that does'nt throw everyone else off. good work grasshopper, soon you will be ready..........
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/07/06 04:48 PM

also i'm quite interested in the clear coat, after talking with the tremclad tech guy and the revelation of using laquier thinner and NOT mineral spirits, i think i'm going to try it when my free case of paint and clear comes!!! he did say that there's basically a test, where they shine light at a 60deg angle to the paint and measure the ammount of light reflected. with the tremclad clear it reflected 90% of the light. that # intreegues me and it's worth it to try it out. allthough i'm very happy with the shine on my car, it would be nice to really take the time to make my car show quality and really blow peoples minds.

EXIT1965 - thanks for taking some of the questions, seems like you're my #2 man, you've got enough expirence that i now deputize you!!!!
Posted By: moper

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/07/06 04:51 PM

Ok, so Saturday I'm runnin around getting stuff for the Dart's paint and body work..I'm in teh hardware store's paint aisle, and there was a 1 gallon can of Rustoelum "Professional Grade" Enamel paint, in Sand color. I read the can. First, it says nothing about mineral spirits, it says thin with Acetone(?)..It also says paint will be dry in 5-10 hours depending on temps, which by the can said 60*F and above, and humidity below 85%. It did say rolling and spraying and brushing were all valid techniques. So, perhaps it IS the mineral spirist part? I've always thought mineral sprits were for stains, and laquer thinner/acetone were for typical "paints". Dont know if that helps, but it's what I read..

Also, it said it can go over any base material, including bare metal, but if you wanted "all the benfits of the rust inhibiting properties.." or something like that, to use their primers..
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/07/06 04:59 PM

Quote:

Ok, so Saturday I'm runnin around getting stuff for the Dart's paint and body work..I'm in teh hardware store's paint aisle, and there was a 1 gallon can of Rustoelum "Professional Grade" Enamel paint, in Sand color. I read the can. First, it says nothing about mineral spirits, it says thin with Acetone(?)..It also says paint will be dry in 5-10 hours depending on temps, which by the can said 60*F and above, and humidity below 85%. It did say rolling and spraying and brushing were all valid techniques. So, perhaps it IS the mineral spirist part? I've always thought mineral sprits were for stains, and laquer thinner/acetone were for typical "paints". Dont know if that helps, but it's what I read..

Also, it said it can go over any base material, including bare metal, but if you wanted "all the benfits of the rust inhibiting properties.." or something like that, to use their primers..




from my discussion the professional stuff is different, and made to dry faster. BUT tremclad is different, and i can't really comment. try giving their tech dept a call and ask them, they really know their stuff. the tremclad and rustoleum stop rust are alkylid based oil enamel, and one ingreadent is mineral spirits. the paint you were looking at is probally a different enamel type of paint, use what they reccommend to thin it, give it a shot. also regarding the primer - i guess if your painting over rust, use primer, but if you take the time to prep your car, do all the body work, there's no need to prime, because there's no rust to inhibit anyways. as long as the surface is rust free, there's no way for moisture to get thru the paint and to the metal and cause rust. but where there's no paint and a way for mositure to get behind the paint like where you screw a mirror on and chip the paint, there is a avenue for moisture to start rusting the metal. i don't think the adhesion properties increase at all, from what the tremclad dude told me, actually there would just be more paint thickness making it more prone to chipping ect.... but if your painting a rusty or oxidized metal surface, the primer will inhibit the rust to a degree. but i hope nobody paints a rusty car!!!!
Posted By: moper

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/07/06 05:07 PM

yeah, I think what we're finding is paint is like gasoline..The formulation and marketed types are different depending on the place in the
country(ies) you are.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/07/06 05:22 PM

Posted By: roe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/07/06 09:05 PM

too. I know I would definately like to try the Tremclad as it has been described here as being a much tougher paint (ie. near impossible to scracth off) even after just a few days. Just trying to scracth it off the can wasn't even possible. Personally I think that the Tremclad seems to be a better paint. Only time will tell when everyone reports back with their toughness tests in a few more weeks, after the Rustoleum has been on for a while.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 06:26 AM

Project Beer Fridge - Part 2

Well, after a good nights sleep and an exhausting day at the office, Project Beer Fridge entered phase two.

1. Wetsanded down the fridge concentrating on the drips and runs from my poor cut-in work last night.

2. A wipedown with mineral spirits afterward began to reveal the potential.

3. Mixed up another batch of paint - a fairly strong dilution as was the second coat last night. Approx 25% would be my guess, possibly too thin but after seeing the results of leaving it too thick last night I wanted to see the results if it was diluted too thin (if indeed it was).

4. Application went on VERY smoothly tonight. Rolled out well, and was even able to attain the magic "light touch bubble removing technique" as described by 69Charger. Interestingly, what I found worked equally as well, if not quicker, was just a slight puff of air. The "air" technique was able to un-bubble as much as 1.5 sq. ft. of painted surface at a time. I think this may be an indicator that the mix might be just about right.

5. Took a brief break while waiting to coat three to dry. Things are starting to look good. Other than a few very small spots, the paint has now coated thick enough to hide the original color. The bottom door looks much improved from last night, the top doorlooks good other than some sag along the top corner that I failed to sand down enough. :/

6. Coat 4 goes on. Again, smooth and easy and things are really starting to take shape. Doors look better yet - Left and Right sides look... great! Top as well!

7. Have learned that "Beer Fridge's" best friend is... no, not the one that feeds it with a constant supply of ice cold delicious liquid heaven. No, Beer Fridge's best friend apparently is Dog Hair. Note to self: Shave the dogs

8. Clean up and assess; Tonights lessons learned are unknown. Certainly the thinner mix works much better for the rolling, but the trade off is that applying it with the foam brush yields very poor results. It's so thin it basely wants to "fill" or cover as traditional cut in painting does. I have several areas where I taped off that just dont seem to want to hold the paint when brushed on. Again, when painting an auto all these parts would be stripped off, but it does make me wonder how painting tight spots will go ( ie vents slots, door jams, rain rails, etc)

It's late, I'm tired. Time to think on it tomorrow.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 07:00 AM

Been following this thread forever now, and i finally ahve some funds to experiment. For everyoen continuing to post, thanks for all the valuable information.


Im going to try the fender of my car tomorrow, and what I wanted to ask was, when I do it, the stock paint (from 85) is still there, can I just remove the silicone and any other oils, sand, then paint over it?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 07:11 AM

Still waiting for pics Ricklandia??

Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 08:07 AM

Here is the hood sanded and ready for the first coat. Sanded with 80, 120, 220, and 320.

Attached picture 2457136-HPIM0086.JPG
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 08:09 AM

next is after one coat I think.

Attached picture 2457137-HPIM0088.JPG
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 08:10 AM

more. you can see the original paint like others have said.

Attached picture 2457138-HPIM0089.JPG
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 08:11 AM

more.

Attached picture 2457141-HPIM0090.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 08:12 AM

Keep us posted!
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 08:13 AM

more

Attached picture 2457143-HPIM0091.JPG
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 08:16 AM

this is after wetsanding with 800, i think i need to sand it a little more.

Attached picture 2457144-HPIM0093.JPG
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 08:18 AM

last one for now, let me have some tips because I have never painted or wetsanded before. Also, let me know if you want me to post pictures after each step.

Attached picture 2457146-HPIM0094.JPG
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 08:19 AM

oh yeah, i haven't cleaned the surface after the wetsanding, so that is why it is so dirty.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 02:14 PM

dalbers - interesting, seems like your learning the tequnique. your test area is nice and easy to work with. from what i see you need to thin just a BIT more, and when wetsanding, maybe try 600 grit until the 4th coat and then go to 800. when you prep, it's not nessessarly better to go with a fine grit paper, i would prep to 400 grit max. it's hard to tell from you pics, but i would say you need to wetsand more, until the paint looks like a perfect "flat" finish with no high/low spots or marks at all. keep up the good work, obviously continue with just that hood, until you perfect and get a "feel" for the process, soon grasshopper, soon you will be ready.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 02:26 PM

Quote:

Been following this thread forever now, and i finally ahve some funds to experiment. For everyoen continuing to post, thanks for all the valuable information.


Im going to try the fender of my car tomorrow, and what I wanted to ask was, when I do it, the stock paint (from 85) is still there, can I just remove the silicone and any other oils, sand, then paint over it?




sand the car down with 200, then really clean the car good with mineral spirits a few times. make sure you sand until there's no "shine" at all in the original paint. then sand with nothing finer then 400. paint right over the original paint.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 02:41 PM

funny, the doorbell just rang and i got a case of tremclad paint, and a case of clear coat from the good ol' boys at tremclad, and it's not even my birthday!!!
Posted By: Kam*Kuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 04:28 PM

Quote:

funny, the doorbell just rang and i got a case of tremclad paint, and a case of clear coat from the good ol' boys at tremclad, and it's not even my birthday!!!



You have increased Tremclad sales. Soon you will be the president.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 04:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

funny, the doorbell just rang and i got a case of tremclad paint, and a case of clear coat from the good ol' boys at tremclad, and it's not even my birthday!!!



You have increased Tremclad sales. Soon you will be the president.




i'm not only the president, i'm also a client
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 06:07 PM

Quote:

Still waiting for pics Ricklandia??






Tonight. By the time I got finished last night it was past 1AM, I couldn't even find the energy to take photos.
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 06:08 PM

thanks 69charger, i'll wet sand some more tonight. How soon are you going to experiment with that clear?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 07:12 PM

Quote:

thanks 69charger, i'll wet sand some more tonight. How soon are you going to experiment with that clear?




ummmm, not sure when, i might just try a test peice, but i don't have a old hood hanging around. don't really feel like stripping my whole car again to add 10% more shine, but next time i need to paint it i'll defineatly try it out. interesting it says on the can to clean the surface with mineral spirits, then thin the clear with laquier thinner......interesting.... also it says to wait at least 72 hours if painting over the tremclad rust paint. it's worth a shot, espically then you'd only have to make the base color smooth and uniform, you could clear after wetsanding to a perfect finish and then buff and wetsand/polish the clear, also i opened the clear coat can up and it's allready as thin as i would like it to paint, so i don't even think i would thin the clear at all, but it looks nice in the can!!! maybe i'd thin it 2-5% just so it would increase the pot life/work time a bit...... ......the more i think about it, i really see potential for BC/CC quality, allthough it would'nt be a $50 paint job any more!!!, more like $70!!!!but the results would be . when i expiremented with it years ago i thinned with mineral spirits, and the tremclad dude said that will KILL the shine completely. i guess i should have read the can before using it.
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 07:16 PM

I'll look if rustoleum makes the clear and maybe test it out.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 08:15 PM

Quote:

I'll look if rustoleum makes the clear and maybe test it out.




They do make the clear. So far I've tried home depot and lowes and they didnt have it except for the can. I am going to see if that kelly moore that carries rustoleum in my area has the clear in pint or quarts.
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 09:08 PM

Quote:

I'm looking to spend $50 total. Once you start buying hardeners, reducers, etc automotive paint is alot more expensive than a gallon of Rustoleum & a gallon of mineral spirits. The truck is only worth $3500 tops. The Challenger will get painted with top of the line PPG, but the Ram will get Rustoleum or Tremclad at this point.




Check out the Duplicolor line (gallons, limited colors) at Murray's auto parts.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/08/06 09:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm looking to spend $50 total. Once you start buying hardeners, reducers, etc automotive paint is alot more expensive than a gallon of Rustoleum & a gallon of mineral spirits. The truck is only worth $3500 tops. The Challenger will get painted with top of the line PPG, but the Ram will get Rustoleum or Tremclad at this point.




Check out the Duplicolor line (gallons, limited colors) at Murray's auto parts.




this car was painted with duplicolor paint:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC00194.jpg

but when you factor the paint, primer, primer sealer, and acetone, ect....i still needed to crack into a 2nd can of paint for the beetle. so in the end i spent about $60 x 2 gal of paint, $40 primer, $40 primer sealer, $40 reducers, for a total of $240 in paint. then you have to spray it, which was the main reason i rollered my car in the first place.

but the duplicolor paint was very good paint for the $, i've used it on 2 cars and it's good paint, but for those who don't want to spray, the roller method is the next best thing.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/09/06 02:05 AM

Project Beer Fridge - Part 3

Taking a night off tonight, at least no painting. Consolidated some photos for posting. Image #1: Yes, its Beer Fridge in all her glory.

Attached picture 2459263-DCP_1832.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/09/06 02:07 AM

Another shot - sanded down and ready for her new clothes.

Attached picture 2459268-DCP_1833.jpg
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/09/06 02:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I'll look if rustoleum makes the clear and maybe test it out.




They do make the clear. So far I've tried home depot and lowes and they didnt have it except for the can. I am going to see if that kelly moore that carries rustoleum in my area has the clear in pint or quarts.




I may have lied.. I can't find non-spray CLEAR by rustoleum anywhere online, and what I understood about my kelly moore was wrong-they only have the industrial line (and no cheap clear coat of any kind).

Perhaps someone else in the USA makes a clear enamel (it's still an enamel right?) in a non-spray and that can be brushed or rolled on?

Funny thing, I can't find any website that sells tremclad either. Are there laws in canada against selling paint online or something?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/09/06 02:14 AM

Day one - two coats applied. First coat went on too thick, second better. The front doors are the worst, sides are better.

Attached picture 2459286-DCP_1838.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/09/06 02:14 AM

A little tighter shot

Attached picture 2459292-DCP_1837.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/09/06 02:18 AM

Day two: Wetsanded with 400 grit and applied coats 3 and 4. Paint was mixed much thinner for these coats. Surface looks pretty good save the dog hairs.

Attached picture 2459306-DCP_1849.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/09/06 02:20 AM

Tight shot with a flash reflection. This was taken today after the paint had 24 hours to dry, no sanding done.

Attached picture 2459319-DCP_1851.jpg
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/09/06 02:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I'll look if rustoleum makes the clear and maybe test it out.




They do make the clear. So far I've tried home depot and lowes and they didnt have it except for the can. I am going to see if that kelly moore that carries rustoleum in my area has the clear in pint or quarts.




I may have lied.. I can't find non-spray CLEAR by rustoleum anywhere online, and what I understood about my kelly moore was wrong-they only have the industrial line (and no cheap clear coat of any kind).

Perhaps someone else in the USA makes a clear enamel (it's still an enamel right?) in a non-spray and that can be brushed or rolled on?

Funny thing, I can't find any website that sells tremclad either. Are there laws in canada against selling paint online or something?




this is the stuff i got:
http://www.flecto.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=548&SBL=5

you'll note this line:
Available in alkyd-based brush-grade and aerosol formats.

although there's no picture i have a case of it in liquid brush/spray grade. i think it only comes in quarts (ie, small cans) the label looks exactly like the spray can on the above link.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/09/06 02:26 AM

Tried to get a tight shot of the reflection - not a great shot as it's night and not alot of light in the garage. This is after coats 3 and 4, no sanding. Overall it looks better than the pictures suggest. I need to work on my skills a little more, both painting and sanding, but I'm still optimistic.

Attached picture 2459339-DCP_1853.jpg
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/09/06 02:28 AM

Quote:

Tight shot with a flash reflection. This was taken today after the paint had 24 hours to dry, no sanding done.




not to bad for a first try, obviously since it's just a beer fridge i guess you'd be more concerned with the dog hairs ect....wetsand and paint some more. the finish looks not to bad.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/09/06 02:58 AM

Quote:

not to bad for a first try, obviously since it's just a beer fridge i guess you'd be more concerned with the dog hairs ect....wetsand and paint some more. the finish looks not to bad.




Thx. I think the closeup shot is a bit decieving as the original finish on the fridge wasn't glass smooth to begin with. It had that typical pebbled texture all of which didn't come out with the initial sanding. I'd say on the sides where I did my best efforts, the unsanded coats look pretty close to where it started from, so that's encouraging.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/09/06 08:25 AM

Just to show you guys, one of the club4ag guys, beat me to doing a test run with the paint style, and here are some pics. http://forums.club4ag.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=133867
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/09/06 01:23 PM

Quote:

Just to show you guys, one of the club4ag guys, beat me to doing a test run with the paint style, and here are some pics. http://forums.club4ag.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=133867



Cool, thanks for posting that..
Hard to tell how nice it looks from that far out, but it does look even I had problems with artificial light too. Still I've noticed this paint job can look a bit dull if looking at it straight on, but I am hoping we can test a clearcoat to see how well it'll work to bump up the gloss.

The only thing I've found so far is Rustoleum spray clear coat, so if that's all there is I might have to try it, and see if it lets me wetsand out imperfections once its sprayed but still retains gloss.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/09/06 03:22 PM

Quote:

Just to show you guys, one of the club4ag guys, beat me to doing a test run with the paint style, and here are some pics. http://forums.club4ag.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=133867




that makes me happy to see, someone has done it and is happy. hey, that guy got on the road with a nice ride for $50, my work is done.....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 10:21 AM

Quote:

. when i expiremented with it years ago i thinned with mineral spirits, and the tremclad dude said that will KILL the shine completely. i guess i should have read the can before using it.




What did he say to thin it with instead? Lacquer Thinner as well? Just trying to be a little critical with all the details and questions asked before I start...

Frank.
Posted By: motorcityjoe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 01:49 PM

I'm sure it was mentioned, but I dont have two hours to scroll through all these great posts ! What size roller ? I am a finish carpenter and occasionally use the white 4" rounded edge foam rollers when applying oil based paint to my cabinets I use reducer and am impressed by the glossy finish . I'm going to try this on an old hood I have and see what happens. Thanks a bunch.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 03:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

. when i expiremented with it years ago i thinned with mineral spirits, and the tremclad dude said that will KILL the shine completely. i guess i should have read the can before using it.




What did he say to thin it with instead? Lacquer Thinner as well? Just trying to be a little critical with all the details and questions asked before I start...

Frank.




the paint is thinned with mineral spirits, and the clear coat should be thinned with laquir thinner from what they said.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 03:03 PM

Quote:

I'm sure it was mentioned, but I dont have two hours to scroll through all these great posts ! What size roller ? I am a finish carpenter and occasionally use the white 4" rounded edge foam rollers when applying oil based paint to my cabinets I use reducer and am impressed by the glossy finish . I'm going to try this on an old hood I have and see what happens. Thanks a bunch.




yes, i use the white, professional high density rollers aprox. 4", and rounded on one end and flat on the other, here's a pic:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/paint/DSC03014.jpg
and another:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/paint/DSC03015.jpg

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 03:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I'm looking to spend $50 total. Once you start buying hardeners, reducers, etc automotive paint is alot more expensive than a gallon of Rustoleum & a gallon of mineral spirits. The truck is only worth $3500 tops. The Challenger will get painted with top of the line PPG, but the Ram will get Rustoleum or Tremclad at this point.




Check out the Duplicolor line (gallons, limited colors) at Murray's auto parts.




this car was painted with duplicolor paint:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/DSC00194.jpg

but when you factor the paint, primer, primer sealer, and acetone, ect....i still needed to crack into a 2nd can of paint for the beetle. so in the end i spent about $60 x 2 gal of paint, $40 primer, $40 primer sealer, $40 reducers, for a total of $240 in paint. then you have to spray it, which was the main reason i rollered my car in the first place.

but the duplicolor paint was very good paint for the $, i've used it on 2 cars and it's good paint, but for those who don't want to spray, the roller method is the next best thing.




$240 or even $300 is still an excellent deal in my book.
The roller results look amazingly good, but....When I think about how time consuming the prep work is, on a $3500 car I would ante up and spray every time...even if it meant borrowing the gear to do it. Just

The attached was done with Matrix, and was about $500 to $700 in sprayable materials. Epoxy primer, 2k sanding primer, and base/clear urethane....I made a few mistakes on it but it ain't bad....I wanted hardener in every component to try and make sure it would hold up over time.



I'm not trying to pee on the thread, though, so please commence with the roller experiments and have fun Just wanted to mention there are many levels of "budget"......


Attached picture 2463441-polarafall4.jpg
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 03:44 PM

Quote:


$240 or even $300 is still an excellent deal in my book.
The roller results look amazingly good, but....When I think about how time consuming the prep work is, on a $3500 car I would ante up and spray every time...even if it meant borrowing the gear to do it. Just

The attached was done with Matrix, and was about $500 to $700 in sprayable materials. Epoxy primer, 2k sanding primer, and base/clear urethane....I made a few mistakes on it but it ain't bad....I wanted hardener in every component to try and make sure it would hold up over time.



I'm not trying to pee on the thread, though, so please commence with the roller experiments and have fun Just wanted to mention there are many levels of "budget"......





funny thing is that i completely agree with you!!!!, the roller method i did on the charger only because i could'nt fit the damm thing in my garage and confortably have space to shoot the car. the orange beetle i actually only did with the rust paint to see what it would look like orange because that was the original color, but the thing turned out so nice i left it. plus the beetle is a super small car and was really easy to paint with the roller. if i had the space and time, and a booth i would definetly spray, but i don't have a booth, and i'm not too sure spraying in your garage is really that good for you!!! even with a high-end respirator i still got high in 10 mins, and was picking paint colored snot out of my nose for a week, funny how that paint get's into crack and holes you never knew you had. the roller process is very clean, and actually easy to do. it all depends on your situation, with spraying, if you can do it, then by all means do it, i'd highly reccomend using a booth, or at least make a home made ventaliation system or you'll smoke your self out fast!!!! that's the only reason i did'nt spray. i'm not saying i'll only roller paint for the rest of my life, i'm open to spraying or rollering, but it al depends on the situation, for now, i'm sticking with the roller because i'm getting the same results in quality/finish, with less work. besides all the body work is done, if i were to spray the charger tommorow, it would just be a prep and paint, i don't have to re-do the whole car.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 05:08 PM

I saw this post from a UK Volkswagen Forum and decided to give it a go with the Rustoleum paint. I am keeping a web diary here:

http://www.davidh74.plus.com/beetle1.htm

If anyone would like to contact me please click the link on the right hand bottom side of the web page

David
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 05:32 PM

Hey Guys.
I ain't a Mopar guy since my dad finally got rid of a 1970 Chrysler rolling disaster, but your thread has been very interesting.
I called up Rust-Oleum tech support, and according to them, the Tremclad is made by a company called Tremco and is being phased out. They gave me the Canadian phone number for Rusto-Oleum. They also said there was no direct equivalent for it in the US. Now, it is entirely possible they don't know what they are talking about, but there you have it.
Also note that on this page:
http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=551&SBL=5
the Tremco is described as "Farm Equipment Rust Paint" and this page:
http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=18&SBL=1
says "Protective Enamel." This page:
http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=36&SBL=1
has Rust-Oleum farm equipment paint but with a much smaller color selection. Being in the private label industry myself, I would also suspect that it may be the same as sold at Tractor Supply under their own label, as TSC certainly does not make their own paint.

So, what's the bottom line? I would venture to say that the stuff sold at Wally World as Rust-Oleum Protective Enamel is not the same as Tremclad and may be why it is not drying as hard or behaving differently. Just my guess.

Dr.Hess
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 06:15 PM

Since I can't find any non spray clear coat, what do you think about rolling on some spray on clear coat?

ebay link clear coat enamel
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 06:27 PM

Quote:

Since I can't find any non spray clear coat, what do you think about rolling on some spray on clear coat?

ebay link clear coat enamel




ummm, i guess you could try, i'd just be concerned about compatability between the 2 paints, the rustoleum/tremclad is a acklyd based enamel, and that clear is for acrylic enamel, which is typically a single stage process paint. i'd stay away from anything that uses a hardner, things could get ugly!!!! i would just try to cut/buff the paint straight, unless your lucky enough to be in canada and can get the tremclad.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 06:53 PM

I checked the Tractor Supply paint, both the tractor paint and the rust specific paint. Best something or other brand, probably private label as I said. It specifically says on both types to first paint bare metal with their primer. The Rust-Oleum Protective Enamel at Wally World does not say to primer first, just clean and dry it. Both say Mineral Spirits on the can somewhere, either as an ingredient (TSC) or as a thinner (WMT). I did not see any Rust-Oleum brand Farm Equipment paint at either store.

Dr.Hess
Posted By: adakota4x4

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 07:44 PM

FWIW, the Tractor Supply paint is a Valspar brand.

http://www.valspar.com/val/resident/bps_imp.jsp

They make tractor/implement, barn/fence and truck/trailer. Might be all the same paint, but available in different colors.
Posted By: Gas_Bandit

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 08:00 PM

Rust paint clear coat is not very clear, I've used it before. Rustoleum's clear is pretty hazy. It did dry fairly hard though for non-catalyzed paint. I just found Napa has urethane in gallons, any color you want, for $60/gal, and they will mix colors. This is for hardening type 2 part paint. I'll be spraying this soon.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 08:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Since I can't find any non spray clear coat, what do you think about rolling on some spray on clear coat?

ebay link clear coat enamel




ummm, i guess you could try, i'd just be concerned about compatability between the 2 paints, the rustoleum/tremclad is a acklyd based enamel, and that clear is for acrylic enamel, which is typically a single stage process paint. i'd stay away from anything that uses a hardner, things could get ugly!!!! i would just try to cut/buff the paint straight, unless your lucky enough to be in canada and can get the tremclad.




I found that rustoleum does have a clear coat available in non spray, in their industrial line (about $50 a gallon).. but it's not available in CA. Damn. I think I'll have to give the spray a shot since that's the only game in town.. as long as I can wetsand any imperfections out of the spray and it still be glossy, i'll be happy..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 09:10 PM

This is my results so far without using a clear coat

Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/10/06 11:56 PM

Quote:

This is my results so far without using a clear coat






sweet, i was considering that color too a long time ago. how is the scratch resistance on your paint?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/11/06 12:03 AM

Looks nice David, appears to be quite a shine. Was this with standard Rustoleum?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/11/06 09:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

. when i expiremented with it years ago i thinned with mineral spirits, and the tremclad dude said that will KILL the shine completely. i guess i should have read the can before using it.




What did he say to thin it with instead? Lacquer Thinner as well? Just trying to be a little critical with all the details and questions asked before I start...

Frank.




the paint is thinned with mineral spirits, and the clear coat should be thinned with laquir thinner from what they said.




You mentioned something about the RustOleum Stops Rust being alkyd-based like the Tremclad rust paint that you used. Did the representative mention anything about the Professional Series line?

I was at Home Depot and I couldnt find the gallon version of the Stops Rust paints, only Pints.. but maybe I wasnt looking hard enough...

What I did find was the Professional Series line of the paints w the same color names. Im not sure if those were the same paint base as the Tremclad Rust paint and the RustOluem Stops Rust line.

Just bottom line, I'm wondering what the base of the RustOleum Professoinal Series is...

Frank.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/11/06 06:55 PM

Hi!
I hope you don’t mind a “bug guy” joining the party. I wanted to applaud you guys for what you’re doing. You’ve got poor, garage-less Joes like me in three countries cheering!
Wow…an alternative to auto painting that doesn’t require hundreds or even thousands of dollars!

It seems like you’ve stumbled on a variation of the old art of “coach painting.”
Here’s a site that goes more into it:
http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk/index.html

There are techniques in coach painting that we may be able to pick up on. The only problem is, the paint that’s used is only available in one country (gee that sounds familiar!) I do see similarities in coach paint to what all of you are working with. What intrigues me is that to get a gloss, coach painters use a certain type of varnish. That may be the key to our common quest. Like EXIT1965, I'm trying to find a clear paint that's brushable and compatible with Rustoleum. The research and experimentation goes on. Good luck amigos!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/11/06 07:34 PM

Project Beer Fridge - Part 3:

After a few days off, I started up again today. Wetsanded down coat #4 with 400 grit again, mostly because it was a bit messy. I found that the areas that cause me the most trouble are around the attachments (fridge badging, handles) which I taped off. the paint just wants to run no matter what I try. Granted, if I were painting a car I would remove all of the, but for the life of me I couldn't figure out how to get the fridge doorhandles off without tearing the doors all apart and I was not interested in doing that - all the beer would get warm!

After some sanding down, I went with coat #5 before I ran out of paint. Here are the results after about an hours worth of drying time. It's dry enough for another coat, which I'm fixin to do after posting these images.

Attached picture 2466566-coat-5-1.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/11/06 07:35 PM

Another shot...

Attached picture 2466569-coat-5-2.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/11/06 07:36 PM

One more picture. Heading out to mix up another batch and put another coat on.

Attached picture 2466573-coat-5-3.jpg
Posted By: Gavin

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/11/06 07:48 PM

Dude, you're famous the world over
Clearly this thread has spread all over the web, to other countries and car makes!!

Goes to show what a desire there is for an effective but cheap method of painting! I don't need to paint my car now, but I have used a roller with 2 pack paint (e.g. on my radiator yoke) with acceptable results. Would have been better still if I'd done lots of wetsanding.

Anyway, good job, I've been keeping up and it's good reading.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/12/06 12:38 AM

Okay, since this forum was such an inspiration, I have to ask everyone's opinion. I've been thinking about the stripes to paint on my beloved beer fridge...

Old school or New school stripes?

By old school, I was considering the late 60's/early 70's style of one thick stripe off-centered with an accompanying thin stripe beside or

New School/muscle car look - two wide stripes down center.

Keep in mind, my muscle car days have long been over, in the garage is a '73 240Z. I was thinking old school stripes would kind of add to the "retro" flavor.

Opinions?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/12/06 01:09 AM

Quote:

Okay, since this forum was such an inspiration, I have to ask everyone's opinion. I've been thinking about the stripes to paint on my beloved beer fridge...

Old school or New school stripes?

By old school, I was considering the late 60's/early 70's style of one thick stripe off-centered with an accompanying thin stripe beside or

New School/muscle car look - two wide stripes down center.

Keep in mind, my muscle car days have long been over, in the garage is a '73 240Z. I was thinking old school stripes would kind of add to the "retro" flavor.

Opinions?




Old school of course, geeez, how could you ask such a silly question!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/12/06 01:15 AM

Quote:

Old school of course, geeez, how could you ask such a silly question!!!




LOL
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/12/06 01:43 AM

Quote:

Hi!
I hope you don’t mind a “bug guy” joining the party. I wanted to applaud you guys for what you’re doing. You’ve got poor, garage-less Joes like me in three countries cheering!
Wow…an alternative to auto painting that doesn’t require hundreds or even thousands of dollars!

It seems like you’ve stumbled on a variation of the old art of “coach painting.”
Here’s a site that goes more into it:
http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk/index.html

There are techniques in coach painting that we may be able to pick up on. The only problem is, the paint that’s used is only available in one country (gee that sounds familiar!) I do see similarities in coach paint to what all of you are working with. What intrigues me is that to get a gloss, coach painters use a certain type of varnish. That may be the key to our common quest. Like EXIT1965, I'm trying to find a clear paint that's brushable and compatible with Rustoleum. The research and experimentation goes on. Good luck amigos!




Welcome Bugr.

I called Rustoleum yesterday and asked about the clear enamel.. they told me that the clear, cheap rustoleum enamel was not available in anything but spray. They told me a part # of some industrial clear coat, but I couldn't find it online and I think it wouldn't be available in California anyways.

At walmart yesterday I read label on the can of aeresol clearcoat and it says apply 2 thin coats. I really don't think I'll mess with a clear coat, I can't imagine doing an entire car with spray cans.. twice.. and even then not knowing what will become of the clearcoat in months or years. So as of now I think I'll just go with the paint and turtle wax. for the almond color im interested in it should be OK with the current amount of gloss (which isn't a whole lot).

I am going to do some more experimenting with the professional line also. For the guy above who asked about the professional line, you can buy smaller containers of it at Lowes, and according to Rustoleum, it dries faster. It does seem to do that in my experience. Not sure what the other benefits of it are. Anyways back to experimenting -- the last time I tried a test area with professional, the area was in terrible shape (very uneven) so it was hard to compare it against the standard rustoleum area which looked good and had a nice surface. Soo I've decided to flatten out a nice area on my test door (here is a pic of a fresh skim coat of bondo/fiberglass resin that should do the job), and take a shot with the professional stuff again. If it works out well there should be a very nice smooth reflection on the side of the door like there was on the first area I did with standard rustoleum. I like the fact that the professional seems to dry to a harder finish faster so it's worth a shot.



for anyone still wondering, I can still scrape the standard rustoleum with my nail if I catch it just right. I know the surface wasn't prepped as well, but my nail still cuts all the way to the surface which to me says it isn't hard yet, and it's been damn near a month. Anyways, I don't want to beat a dead horse.



Attached picture 2467422-IMG_0771(Medium).JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/12/06 02:56 AM

Still following this forum. I said I would post pics. of my progress. They are in my computer, but as yet have found a way to post to this site, will keep trying. Anyway, I have numerous panels that have been sanded down to 2000 grit. I can't scrach the paint. etc. The oldest panel is about 2 weeks old, but when I try to buff, not much happens. I was wondering if the paint needs to cure for 3 months as some would suggest, i.e. before waxing. Maybe I am using the wrong approach, but I am using the cheap polishing compound, and a wool buffing pad. It just tends to ball up. I'm confused, any help with buffing, and the right supplies would help. Thanks.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/12/06 03:16 AM

Quote:

Still following this forum. I said I would post pics. of my progress. They are in my computer, but as yet have found a way to post to this site, will keep trying. Anyway, I have numerous panels that have been sanded down to 2000 grit. I can't scrach the paint. etc. The oldest panel is about 2 weeks old, but when I try to buff, not much happens. I was wondering if the paint needs to cure for 3 months as some would suggest, i.e. before waxing. Maybe I am using the wrong approach, but I am using the cheap polishing compound, and a wool buffing pad. It just tends to ball up. I'm confused, any help with buffing, and the right supplies would help. Thanks.




What do you mean not much happens? Make sure you're looking at it from a side angle so you can see the effect of polishing, this is where it seems to make the difference. As for technique, I stumbled through it, put some of the polish on the bonnet, wet it down a bunch, then sprayed the panel with water to make sure there was enough moisture, and just ran the buffer over it for a few minutes. It seemed to work for me.

Also are you looking at it under flourescent light? It looks better in natural light, or at least when there's something to reflect when viewing it from the side.
Posted By: MNobody

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/12/06 03:48 AM

Well i didn't repaint the whole car but it needed some body repairs and the $5500 price tag was not an option so i did the repairs myself and look how i hid them..... see attachment.

Attached picture 2467810-DD008.jpg
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/12/06 05:52 AM

Well, I decided to start over because I think I was using the wrong roller, didn't thin the paint enough, and it won't cost anymore except for time. I sanded the hood and got the right rollers and made sure the paint was thin. Just got done with the first coat and I am already a lot happier. Put it on a lot thinner as well. The right roller makes a world of difference. I'll put on a second coat and wetsand it tomorrow and then post some pictures.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/12/06 10:07 PM

I just found out that Canadian Tire now has tintable base for Tremclad. Picked up some today and started painting the race car. I have thinned it down, really thin and it still lots of color in the mix. I will sand it tomorrow and see how it looks. Blowing on the little bubbles works really well.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/13/06 12:23 AM

Quote:

...when I try to buff, not much happens...I am using the cheap polishing compound, and a wool buffing pad...any help with buffing, and the right supplies would help. Thanks.



Hi All...congratulations on bringing this interesting technique to light. I was referred here by a link on hotrodding.com!! I have read every post with interest and decided it was worth a try.

I too am having the trouble described in this earlier post. Everything seemed to be going well until the final wetsand/polish then things went south fast...

a.) wetsand after sixth coat with 1500
b.) buff with "TurtleWax Polishing Compound"

It just does not seem to bring the shine back!! It looks like it does after every other coat/wetsand (dull and scratchy...the areas that haven't been hit during wetsanding shine really nice!). I'm not using a "pro" grade buffer, just one of those $20 orbital buffers w/wool pad like this one. Could this be the problem? Are you guys using variable speed buffers to polish?

To be truthful, I think I would have been better off to skip the final wetsand and just polishing the sixth coat.

HELP!!

Thanks again for the wonderful postings and cheers to all the contributors...Chuck
Posted By: Gas_Bandit

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/13/06 12:27 AM

That random orbital buffer will not cut paint anywhere near enough to buff out sanding haze. It has very low pad speed and a very large contact area. That is designed for people who have never used a buffer before because it makes it impossible for you to burn the paint. If you have a buffer that will not burn the paint when used improperly, it really isn't doing anything. You need a real 7" rotory buffer with a wool pad.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/13/06 12:31 AM

I have a Porter Cable 7424 and it works great!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/13/06 02:04 AM

Quote:

That random orbital buffer will not cut paint anywhere near enough to buff out sanding haze. It has very low pad speed and a very large contact area. That is designed for people who have never used a buffer before because it makes it impossible for you to burn the paint. If you have a buffer that will not burn the paint when used improperly, it really isn't doing anything. You need a real 7" rotory buffer with a wool pad.




The buffer in the link is somewhat similar to the one I'm using, the same kind you can buy at walmart for instance. It seemed to polish fine for me. I don't think polish alone would remove sanding scratches, wouldn't you need rubbing compound for that?

I know what you guys are saying that the final coat is glossy on its own, then wetsanding takes the gloss away. But polishing for me made it shiny again (not as shiny as before wetsanding, but I had tiny imperfections in the final coat that wetsanding got rid of). The final coat for me was still slightly uneven so wetsanding made it glass like in terms of smoothness.

For the polishing technique, just wet it down good and rub some polish on the car (go head and be liberal with it on a small area), make sure the bonnet is wet then polish an area. After polishing for 10-20 seconds (a small area), wipe it clean with a papertowl and you should see smoothness and a reflection at an angle. Keep trying different things on a small area, and wiping the polish away and looking for a reflection, until you see what works, then do the whole area..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/13/06 02:57 AM

I have spent the last 2 days reading this entire thread. I started from a link from the mr2oc.com forums. I will probably paint my car this way and will keep reading here. I just wanted to thank you guys for all the testing and posting. To bad a lot of the pictures do not show.

Keep up the good work
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/13/06 03:32 AM

Quote:

I have spent the last 2 days reading this entire thread. I started from a link from the mr2oc.com forums. I will probably paint my car this way and will keep reading here. I just wanted to thank you guys for all the testing and posting. To bad a lot of the pictures do not show.

Keep up the good work




Im actually might try and paint my MR2 with this

I practiced on a fender. Half of the fender was sanded prepped down to the metal; the other half, I left the primer that was on there. I thought I read on the board mix about 20% of mineral spirits to the paint, however when I mixed to 20% the paint was still too thick- probably weather conditions, it was about mid 50s outside (in farenheit). I think I mixed it to about to 300% and the consistency was still more than 'water'. It had the consistency more of baby oil, however I think it might work out better. One layer of paint so far and it covered the fender pretty well. I was worried at first because there seems to be a lot of bubbles, but after it dried there are less, still a lot but less. However I think if I sand it down with 600-800 grit or so then sand and put another layer of paint, it should take care of that. So maybe 3-4 layers and then a final buffing. So mixing it a little thick doesnt seem too bad. However the paint has not dried to the touch yet, still a little sticky after about 5 hours, but thats with the temperature only getting colder it should take a little longer. And I'm sure it doesnt help that I added more mineral spirits and that will delay the cureing process. I took some pictures but I will upload them later on- probably when I finish the fender.
Ill report back on the hardness of the paint after a while. I intend to bake the paint a little with a heater see if that will harden it a bit.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/13/06 06:04 AM

You really have to thin the paint out. I was putting it on too thick. I just did the hood. I thinned it way down on the hood and what a difference.
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/13/06 06:57 AM

Are you guys getting roller lines? I can see where I was overlapping with the roller. Feels pretty smooth across, but just want to know if anyone else was having this problem and if there is a fix to it.
Thanks
David
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/13/06 07:09 AM

The lines sounds like you have it too thick.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/13/06 07:21 AM

Quote:

You really have to thin the paint out. I was putting it on too thick. I just did the hood. I thinned it way down on the hood and what a difference.




Whats wrong if its too thick?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/13/06 05:30 PM

I could see some roller lines in my hood, I went over them with a new roller. It seems to have taken them down. I just went out to the car, it is still a bit tacky. I think I put too much paint on. I really thinned out the paint when I did my hood and it is dry. I will try wet sanding tonight when I get home from work.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/13/06 09:25 PM

Ok...the problem from my earlier post was solved with my variable speed buffer/polisher. I have enclosed some pix. This is from an aftermarket fender i had lying around. I taped off approximately one foot and a half square and followed the procedure:

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/13/06 09:32 PM

Here is a closer shot:

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/13/06 09:33 PM

I'm now moving on to the trunk lid of my car. This is a shot of coat #1:

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/13/06 09:53 PM

Ok, now a few insights:

1.) The paint suggested very early in these postings was called "acrylic/enamel paint"...this is not exactly what you're looking for. The proper paint type is "aklyd enamel". The "acrylic/enamel" is water based, and that isn't what you want (read about "acrylic/enamel" on this web page). As a matter of fact, you do not necessarily have to buy "rustoleum". I bought mine from the local "Do-It-Center" and it is the house brand made by Sherwin Williams...worked fine. The easiest way to tell if you have the right thing is to look at the directions and see what "clean-up" instructions are...if it says "clean with Mineral Spirits", than you have the right stuff. Many people make compatible brands.

2.) It may also say in the instructions that you do not have to thin...in this case, you have to thin. My ratio was 10:1, worked great. It will bubble and look "orange peely" at first, but relax, the paint self-levels as it drys.

3.) At first, I understood that we could use a $20 orbital buffer/polisher like you buy a Wal-Mart, etc...Although it seems to have worked for others, it did NOT work for me. It would not eliminate the scratches from the final 1500 grit wetsanding. Luckily, I had a 7" ELECTRONIC POLISHER/SANDER just like the one on this web page. It worked wonders!!

Will write more later if I think of anything. If you have questions about my procedure, I will do my best to help...thanks guys
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/14/06 12:55 AM

Quote:

Ok, now a few insights:

1.) The paint suggested very early in these postings was called "acrylic/enamel paint"...this is not exactly what you're looking for. The proper paint type is "aklyd enamel". The "acrylic/enamel" is water based, and that isn't what you want (read about "acrylic/enamel" on this web page). As a matter of fact, you do not necessarily have to buy "rustoleum". I bought mine from the local "Do-It-Center" and it is the house brand made by Sherwin Williams...worked fine. The easiest way to tell if you have the right thing is to look at the directions and see what "clean-up" instructions are...if it says "clean with Mineral Spirits", than you have the right stuff. Many people make compatible brands.

2.) It may also say in the instructions that you do not have to thin...in this case, you have to thin. My ratio was 10:1, worked great. It will bubble and look "orange peely" at first, but relax, the paint self-levels as it drys.

3.) At first, I understood that we could use a $20 orbital buffer/polisher like you buy a Wal-Mart, etc...Although it seems to have worked for others, it did NOT work for me. It would not eliminate the scratches from the final 1500 grit wetsanding. Luckily, I had a 7" ELECTRONIC POLISHER/SANDER just like the one on this web page. It worked wonders!!

Will write more later if I think of anything. If you have questions about my procedure, I will do my best to help...thanks guys




i allways have suggested the alklyd enamel (rust paint) to roller on, i think the confusion comes from the 71 midnight metalic blue beetle in my pics that was SPRAYED with dupli color single stage acrylic enamel. just to clear things up.

by the way, nice job, i hope to see it all done
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/14/06 12:57 AM

Hi there
I have read this entire thread within 24 hours and I have to say it's one of the most interesting threads I have ever read! And the timing couldn't be any better, since I just bought a 1985 Honda CRX yesterday that really needs a paintjob If I remember correctly, a CRX was the first car "69charger" painted with this method, right? My car even came with 2 extra doors, perfect for practicing

I haven't seen RustOleum or Tremclad in Denmark though, so I'll have to see what to use instead. Perhaps "Hammerite" would work... it's made for the same use...But I have too check around...

It will probably be some time before I start painting, since I don't have a good garage/workshop to work in, and it's currently insanely cold here... -10 degress celsius (14 fahrenheit) even though it's supposed to be spring

Well, just wanted to let you all know that the wealth of information in this thread is appreciated by people all over the world
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/14/06 02:28 AM

all this talk about the big orbital polisher not working is a bit discouraging. The last coat went on beautifully and I hesitated to sand it down one more time, but thought i needed to at least try. Put the first few coats of striping on and everything looks good, gonna put another coat on tonight before I call it a day.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/14/06 03:30 AM

Quote:

Ok, now a few insights:

1.) The paint suggested very early in these postings was called "acrylic/enamel paint"...this is not exactly what you're looking for. The proper paint type is "aklyd enamel". The "acrylic/enamel" is water based, and that isn't what you want (read about "acrylic/enamel" on this web page). As a matter of fact, you do not necessarily have to buy "rustoleum". I bought mine from the local "Do-It-Center" and it is the house brand made by Sherwin Williams...worked fine. The easiest way to tell if you have the right thing is to look at the directions and see what "clean-up" instructions are...if it says "clean with Mineral Spirits", than you have the right stuff. Many people make compatible brands.

2.) It may also say in the instructions that you do not have to thin...in this case, you have to thin. My ratio was 10:1, worked great. It will bubble and look "orange peely" at first, but relax, the paint self-levels as it drys.

3.) At first, I understood that we could use a $20 orbital buffer/polisher like you buy a Wal-Mart, etc...Although it seems to have worked for others, it did NOT work for me. It would not eliminate the scratches from the final 1500 grit wetsanding. Luckily, I had a 7" ELECTRONIC POLISHER/SANDER just like the one on this web page. It worked wonders!!

Will write more later if I think of anything. If you have questions about my procedure, I will do my best to help...thanks guys




Hi Chuck - at first glance, your test area looks kind of dull and it looks like the surface is blotchy, in the light reflections. Granted the light isn't that great, but the surface doesn't look smooth - was it straight to begin with?

What did you use when wetsanding, did you do it by hand or with a block of some sort? If the surface really is as uneven as it looks you might want to try a soft foam sanding block with your paper wrapped around it.

If you did everything as prescribed in this thread and the job came out lacking lustre as it appears to, you might want to try actual rustoleum, e.g. from walmart. I don't know if the paint is the difference or if it's the technique but your surface does not seem to be as glossy or mirror like as it could be. for example this is with the same technique, foam sanding block used when wetsanding, and with cheap rustoleum gloss from walmart.


If the paint surface is uneven, I would go back at it with 600 grit and water, with a soft foam block, till it's smooth, then build it up again with 2-3 more thin coats.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/14/06 08:46 AM

Quote:


Hi Chuck - at first glance, your test area looks kind of dull and it looks like the surface is blotchy, in the light reflections. Granted the light isn't that great, but the surface doesn't look smooth - was it straight to begin with?

What did you use when wetsanding, did you do it by hand or with a block of some sort? If the surface really is as uneven as it looks you might want to try a soft foam sanding block with your paper wrapped around it.

If you did everything as prescribed in this thread and the job came out lacking lustre as it appears to, you might want to try actual rustoleum, e.g. from walmart. I don't know if the paint is the difference or if it's the technique but your surface does not seem to be as glossy or mirror like as it could be. for example this is with the same technique, foam sanding block used when wetsanding, and with cheap rustoleum gloss from walmart.

If the paint surface is uneven, I would go back at it with 600 grit and water, with a soft foam block, till it's smooth, then build it up again with 2-3 more thin coats.





Hi Guys...to be honest, I had my biggest problem with the "inexpensive" orbital polisher. Everything went fine until the final wetsand/polish but the orbital polisher would not bring back the shine! So, I wiped it down with mineral spirits and applied another coat of paint. It started to become a bit of a "dull mess" at this time (wax coat, mineral spirit coat, new paint coat!!). In a last ditch effort, I wetsanded again with all three grades starting with 600 up to 1500 again then used the "pro" grade buffer. I could tell this was the problem (for me).

So, I decided instead of redoing this test-area, I would just move on to the trunk. I seemed to have found the proper technique and hopefully will get better results in the end with the trunk lid...i'll let you know as I go along.

Thanks again guys, Chuck

PS...it does look alot better outside in natural lighting, but it was stormy the day I took the pictures and white doesn't reflect well on a cloudy day!!
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/14/06 03:23 PM

ok, here's the deal on the polishers, the random orbit low rpm polishers (under 4000rpm) take a long time to polish a given area. for example i would spend about 30 mins on the trunk lid of the charger. the high end ones that are just a spin type that are variable speed up to 10000rpm are hard to master, and granted work faster, they also have more potential to screw things up fast!!! the paint is not fully cured, and polishing it faster is just asking for trouble. the paint will heat up fast, and is eaisly burned. i would reccommend using the random orbit polisher and polishing compound for a beginner. the rubbing compound is too harsh for fresh paint. remember you have to take your time, patience is the key. both polishers achieve the same results, the only thing is that the random orbit <4000rpm takes longer, but there is no chance of burning thru the paint. don't push on the polisher, just use the weight of the polisher, maybe a tiny bit of pressure. keep the bonnet wet, i start by loading up the bonnet up with polishing compound, then work a 3'x3' area for about 2 mins, then i spray the bonnet with water in a spray bottle, then go back to polishing, i'd wet the bonnet about 3 times on a particular area, then when i'm finishing up i let it dry up a bit until it's done. even though i have some expirence with polishing i choose to use the random orbit polisher just because it's much eaiser to use, and you can basically do it blindfolded, the other polishers are just to powerfull, and eaisly screw all your work up fast if your not carefull. for bonnets i use the cotton cheese cloth bonnets and not the fuzzy buffing bonnets.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/14/06 06:09 PM

I don't think the body shops/detailers use high RPM polishers. I believe most are <4K RPM. The compound/pad/pressure are the main issues.

Like you said - the higher speed is just waiting to burn through something - usually when you think you are going along just fine! I have first hand knowledge of this phenomena.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/14/06 07:42 PM

Quote:

I don't think the body shops/detailers use high RPM polishers. I believe most are <4K RPM. The compound/pad/pressure are the main issues.

Like you said - the higher speed is just waiting to burn through something - usually when you think you are going along just fine! I have first hand knowledge of this phenomena.




i agree, espically when polishing new paint. also random orbit polishers are much better at delivering a more uniform polish because they spin and orbit in a oval at the same time, basically giving you less swirl marks and a better finish. I've tried alot of compounds when polishing paint, and out of them all, the el-cheap-o turtle wax polishing compound worked the best, but it did take time. the down side is time, the upside is that it works, and there is virtually no chance of burning the paint. i would equate the rubbing compound to 600grit paper, and the polishing compound to 2000+ grit paper. some compounds are rated according to grit, or their equivelent, no matter how much you buff with rubbing compound it will still be dull, try polishing paint with 600 grit paper wet and let me know how it works out!! i'd bet it won't. if you think about it, you know how long it takes to wetsand with 2000grit paper when compared to 600, that is why the polishing compound takes time to see results. but it's easy work, basically just stand there and let the polisher do the work, for the sides i reccommend a chair/stool!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/15/06 01:59 AM

Project Beer Fridge Part 5:

Stripes are on, a final sanding and buff are next on the list, but I thought I'd post a few pictures of the progress.

Attached picture 2475558-DCP_1865.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/15/06 02:01 AM

Pre-sanding but I'm happy with the look - "Old School"

Attached picture 2475563-pre-sanding.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/15/06 02:02 AM

A side by side comparison; before and after.

Attached picture 2475568-compare.jpg
Posted By: moper

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/15/06 02:04 AM

it will cost as much as the paint, but I buff with 3M PerfectIT..stuff is magical...lol.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/15/06 02:21 AM

Quote:

A side by side comparison; before and after.




Looks great for a fridge! Now do a car
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/15/06 03:08 AM

Quote:

Looks great for a fridge! Now do a car




gotta be honest with you, even though I managed to learn quite a bit with this technique, I'm not sure I'm convinvced... yet. Fortunately, I still have lots of other work to do on the car before I'm ready for paint. I did the beer fridge with the "consumer" grade Rustoleum, and haven't tried the "Professional" grade yet although I don't expect it to perform much differently. I'm real curious to see how the paint performs once it's had a chance to harden properly, a month or two perhaps. Right now, it feels quite soft and I have no doubt that if I tried I could dig up some paint with a fingernail. Having never painted a car before, I honestly don't know if that could be expected of a "traditional" spray job or not. In the mean time, I got eyes on my riding mower, which sits out in the Florida sun 24/7/365. It'll go a long way in convincing me to see if this paint can stand up on the mower after a few months of abuse.

EDIT: THE FINAL COAT IS NOW ONE WEEK OLD AND I GAVE IT THE "FINGERNAIL" TEST. PASSED WITH FLYING COLORS, COULDN'T EVEN MAKE A DENT IN IT.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/15/06 05:20 AM

I'm doing some (more) experimenting with the professional now. So far I've only done one coat, but it's OK so far. Here is a picture of the surface wiped down with mineral spirits. It's not perfect, but I didn't want it to be perfect since my car isn't perfect either.


the surface was shaped with 80 grit on a long board (and a short block in some areas) followed by 180 on a long board or a block. There were visible sanding scratches so we'll also get to see how well this paint process hides them.

edited- changed picture to better shot of surface.

Attached picture 2476202-IMG_0778(Medium).JPG
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/15/06 05:23 AM

And here it is after the first coat. There were a couple runs a few minutes later (I completely forgot to do the once-over a few minutes after finishing, and I probably laid it on too thick in some places). There were bubbles during application, but they all popped on their own or when I rolled over them lightly.




I think my policy will be to wetsand out any runs before doing any more coats. So tomorrow morning I'll sand the surface with 600 grit and water, then apply another coat tomorrow night.

Attached picture 2476216-IMG_0791(Medium).JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/15/06 07:16 PM

I am glad I'm painting my mini stock for practice. I can see how good this would be if you take time to play with the mix. Time stamp on pic is wrong. I took the pic this morning
Kevin

Attached picture 2477343-accord2.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 01:03 AM

I've been reading this thread like many others and have been a reader of moparts for years (I have a '70 Challenger R/T). I tried doing this on my Datsun 240Z and so far have enjoyed the results. The paint goes on nice and easy and looks good (I have 6 coats of white so far).

I have noticed on some sections of the car that have 6 total coats and about 2 weeks of drying time that if I dig my nail in, it will scrape right off down to the primer below it. In reading this thread, it sounds like only one other person has that problem, and no solution

Asking the paint guys at Home Depot (whatever that is worth), they told me that Rustoleum isn't made to stick to a urethane based primer, which is what I believe was on my car prior to the painting...

Any insight on how to make this paint harder?

-Mike
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 03:45 AM

Quote:

I have noticed on some sections of the car that have 6 total coats and about 2 weeks of drying time that if I dig my nail in, it will scrape right off down to the primer below it. In reading this thread, it sounds like only one other person has that problem, and no solution

Asking the paint guys at Home Depot (whatever that is worth), they told me that Rustoleum isn't made to stick to a urethane based primer, which is what I believe was on my car prior to the painting...

Any insight on how to make this paint harder?

-Mike




It might not be a question of making the paint harder, but of it's ability to adhere to the primer you had on the car. Can you give more details on how you prepped the primer coat before beginning the first coat of paint? Can you get some close-up photos of the scratch test? I gave the "Beer Fridge Project" the fingernail test tonight after one week dry and it's hard as nails (no pun intended). I cant tell you what type of paint the original coat was on the fridge, anyone want to venture a guess what kind of paint they typically use on appliances?
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 04:08 AM

Just a note guys,

I have tried many different wipes and paint preps over the years. I have spent good money on some only to have very bad paint adhesion problems. You would be amazed at how just one little step can cause so many problems. I have seen regular old lacquer primer absorb water. So if you are washing down with soap and water before applying your paint, you are probably going to see some adhesion problems.

For me the cure was to wipe down my surfaces with lacquer thinner just before painting. It seems to get off all the nasty stuff that accumulates during the body work. You must let it evaporate before applying the paint, but for me it always made my paint and or primer stick better. I use the cheap stuff from AutoZone. Usually under $10 a gallon.

Be careful when you use it on cheap lacquer primer though because it will remove your primer. I usually use a lint free cloth (Like an old T-shirt) and WEAR GLOVES!! A fan blowing on the surface will help it evaporate quicker.

I have spent many dollars setting up my garage to spray my cars in, so I haven't used the roller method. But if you are having adhesion problems, chances are your surface prep needs to be addressed. I’ll bet the mineral spirits are also evaporating very slowly, causing your soft paint issues. I have used lacquer thinner to thin enamel before and it worked well. Using a roller though and thinning with lacquer thinner will probably eat your roller. If anyone experimenting would be willing to try it, I would be curious if using a little fast evaporating lacquer thinner would help with the soft paint issues.

-Dave
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 05:45 AM

Quote:

I've been reading this thread like many others and have been a reader of moparts for years (I have a '70 Challenger R/T). I tried doing this on my Datsun 240Z and so far have enjoyed the results. The paint goes on nice and easy and looks good (I have 6 coats of white so far).

I have noticed on some sections of the car that have 6 total coats and about 2 weeks of drying time that if I dig my nail in, it will scrape right off down to the primer below it. In reading this thread, it sounds like only one other person has that problem, and no solution

Asking the paint guys at Home Depot (whatever that is worth), they told me that Rustoleum isn't made to stick to a urethane based primer, which is what I believe was on my car prior to the painting...

Any insight on how to make this paint harder?

-Mike




Sorry to hear you're having the same issue. I am not sure what causes it, probably a mix of surface and the paint hardness. Your nail had to bust through the paint enough to scrape at the surface; but maybe the layers above have a tendency to lift the layers below when the higher layers are scratched if the base layers aren't adhering right.

In any case, on the Professional rustoleum test area I did, I can not scratch it to the surface at this point (probably 3.5 weeks after last coat). I could for the first week or so, then not. The professional stuff is supposed to dry faster. So in your case, you might want to wait longer than 2 weeks before doing any more scratching.

It's a month+ after I finished up my standard rustoleum area, and I can still scratch the paint off, but my surface prep wasn't good. The paint sure is shiny though.

Anyways I'm doing another Professional rustoleum (at Lowes) test area now, on an area comparable to where I did the standard stuff. I should have results by Sunday, and I'm hoping for as nice of a shine as I got with the standard stuff but with a tougher (or at least, quicker drying) surface.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 01:59 PM

I think GTSDAVE's advice on surface prep is sound, but I would be hesitant to thin with laquer thinner simply because it's not the recommended thinner from the manufacturer. Gotta defer to the Rustoleum chemists IMHO.
I'm convinced at this point that the troubles folks are having are not a "hardness" problem, rather an adherence problem. My dilution ratio was significantly higher than the average (~45%), so you would think that it would take significantly longer for my paint to dry, yet it's hard as stone after only one week - unscratchable. I might be wrong here, but I think those having trouble started with a primer base. Did the primer coat folks sand down the primer coat before starting, or just wipe down with cleaner before starting? Maybe a primer coat alone isn't rough enough for the paint grip/adhere? Bare/clean metal painters, are you having problems? I know with products like POR15, a metal prep/etcher is needed, something to "rough up" the metal enough to give the POR/paint something to grab onto. Hope this helps.
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 02:14 PM

Ricklandia,

I was thinking if somone has a little paint left and some quick drying laquer thinner they could give it a test try. I haven't bought any of this paint so I dont have any laying around.

I know a good wipe down with the thinner will ensure a clean surface for the paint to stick too.

-Dave
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 03:43 PM

Quote:

I think GTSDAVE's advice on surface prep is sound, but I would be hesitant to thin with laquer thinner simply because it's not the recommended thinner from the manufacturer. Gotta defer to the Rustoleum chemists IMHO.
I'm convinced at this point that the troubles folks are having are not a "hardness" problem, rather an adherence problem. My dilution ratio was significantly higher than the average (~45%), so you would think that it would take significantly longer for my paint to dry, yet it's hard as stone after only one week - unscratchable. I might be wrong here, but I think those having trouble started with a primer base. Did the primer coat folks sand down the primer coat before starting, or just wipe down with cleaner before starting? Maybe a primer coat alone isn't rough enough for the paint grip/adhere? Bare/clean metal painters, are you having problems? I know with products like POR15, a metal prep/etcher is needed, something to "rough up" the metal enough to give the POR/paint something to grab onto. Hope this helps.




i totally agree. use mineral spirits, NOT laquir thinner with the rust paint, it is mineral spirits based and NEEDS to be thinned with mineral spirits. let's keep one thing in mind here, the mineral spirits mixed with the paint allows for a thinner layer of paint to be applied, that will actually dry faster then straight paint in a thick layer. the mineral spirits increase the pot life, and tack life of the paint and don't really effect the overall drying time. after 6-8 hours, even if you thinned with mineral spirits at 80%, the paint will "flash" and dry. the solvent (in this case being mineral spirits) evaporates from the paint in 6-8 hours, from then on it is the paint that dries, very little of the "flashing" occurs after that time, then it is the paint that actually dries, and that is a constant. remember your not comparing apples with apples here, how hard the paint dries in the end is soley based on the paint it self. on the other hand, when you paint using a enamel that uses a hardner, the hardner causes a chemical reaction with the paint that forces it to flash faster. it's like body filler, eventually straight filler will harden, but the hardner speeds this process. i think all the adhesion issues and scratch tests are related to surface prep, i allways sand with no more than 600grit when prepping a surface to get the paint to adhere. then you have to also clean the surface. even though you sand, you don't remove all surface contaminents, if there is wax for example on the paint, sanding will not totally remove it. i'm sure that if you prep properlly with the right paper, and don't go too fine with the prep, and you really clean the surface well with mineral spirits there should be no issues with adhesion. we can see some members have issues and others do not, the paint is the same, and the only varaible is surface prep, regardless of the ratio of mineral spirits. as a test, if you really feel it necessary, if you paint with straight paint, and paint thinned with mineral spirits at 50%, assuming you could get the same thickness in layers of paint, i'd bet they would dry roughly at the same rate after the first hour. if you soak a rag with mineral spirits, and whipe the car down, the mineral spirits will evoperate completely in about 10 mins. same happens in the paint. then mineral spirits slightly increases the initial drying time, allows you to work with thinner paint strictly due to the thinner viscosity of the paint, and allows the paint to "self-level" better then just straight paint. rant out

P.S. - EXIT1965- quit painting test areas and paint that damm car allready!!!!! next pic i want to see is a done car!!!! lol
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 04:33 PM

The car was primered with what I beleive is a urethane primer (typical grey, nice and smooth, not rattle can).

Prioer to painting, I did some bondo work on a few areas I wanted to smooth out and I tossed a little rattlecan primer on top of that. Once everything was dry, I first sanded it all with 150 and then followed it with 320 grit, I washed the entire car down with simple green and used a brush to scrub everything, then I let it dry and wiped it all down with a rag and mineral spirits. I waited a few hours to make sure everything was dry and I started rolling on the paint...

That was the extent of my surface prep. Maybe the paint made for California is different?

I do have some spots on my hood that I had to sand down to bare metal, so I'll check that out once I finish painting the hood to see if it sticks better there.

I'll take some pictures of the scratches but they look exactly like Exit1965's.
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 04:55 PM

The more I read this strng the more I am coninced that although the results for some of you are good. It is starting to look to me that if your time is worth anything at all you would be ahead of the game by spraying a little more expensive paint and being done with it.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 05:09 PM

Quote:

The more I read this strng the more I am coninced that although the results for some of you are good. It is starting to look to me that if your time is worth anything at all you would be ahead of the game by spraying a little more expensive paint and being done with it.




that would be true if you have the space, and equipment not to mention the skill!!! having done both i would agree with you, but once you have the technique down pat it's actually alot eaiser then spraying. also spraying requires alot more skill, there's primers, primer sealers, paint, reducers, re-coat windows, ect...alot more can go wrong when you spray, for the first-timer (ie-amateur) this method is eaiser, and alot eaiser to fix if you mess up, not to mention that if it does'nt workout for you your only out a few $, instead of $300 of material, and a huge mess on your hands (been there, done that!!!) the first time i sprayed paint it really messed up, i probally created 4 times the work it would have took if i knew what i was doing. i would consider myself a seasoned semi-pro do-it-yourself painter in the spraying department. i can spray a car with basically professional results in my garage. i was going to spray the charger but it barley fit in my garage, not enough room to confortably work around it to spray. since i was a seasoned roller painter i just rollered it!!!! i'm very happy with the results, no complaints. I guess it's easy to say "just spray it" if you know how, but to a newbie spraying is scarry, it's also a valid fear as ALOT can go wrong.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 05:27 PM

On top of that, the results many are sharing are far from satisfactory - mainly no real cure/soft paint. If the paint available in the US is not the same formula and takes forever to cure (if at all adequately), it doesn't seem worth the effort.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 05:46 PM

Quote:



P.S. - EXIT1965- quit painting test areas and paint that damm car allready!!!!! next pic i want to see is a done car!!!! lol




Yes, I want to see that too, believe me! But I am still not convinced of which rustoleum product would be best to use, so I'm experimenting more with the pro stuff.

I am doing these test areas in my spare time, while bondo is drying, etc. I welded up all but 7 trim holes last night, I am making progress fast so who knows, I could start painting my car within a month as much time as I've been spending on it.

And I got a PM from a guy who tried Acetone, and it dried too fast for him, got all sticky and turned into a big mess- so Im not seeing a good reason to switch from mineral spirits.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 06:01 PM

Rolling paint on is much easier than spraying. There is no mess, I just have some blue tape along the window edges and around the door handles, nothing on the floor, no big plastic drapes, etc. No overspray to cover all the other stuff in my garage either and NO SMELL.

The technique is easy, just roll it on and it evens itself out.

The problem I have is, I'll have a great looking car with about 10hrs total work into it...BUT YOU CAN'T TOUCH IT OR THE PAINT WILL SCRATCH OFF

Somehow I think rustoleum just doesn't bond well to urethane primer.

Maybe if I can figure a way to spray some clear over the top?
Posted By: patrick

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 06:15 PM

Quote:

The car was primered with what I beleive is a urethane primer (typical grey, nice and smooth, not rattle can).

Prioer to painting, I did some bondo work on a few areas I wanted to smooth out and I tossed a little rattlecan primer on top of that. Once everything was dry, I first sanded it all with 150 and then followed it with 320 grit, I washed the entire car down with simple green and used a brush to scrub everything, then I let it dry and wiped it all down with a rag and mineral spirits. I waited a few hours to make sure everything was dry and I started rolling on the paint...





I think surface prep is part of your problem. most polyester fillers (bondo) absorb water. using a water based product like simple green could trap moisture in there, and using a slow-flash solvent like mineral spirits probably doesn't help, either. for the rustoleum, I'd probably go rougher on your sanding of the primer, maybe 180 grit. then instead of using a water based degreaser or mineral spirits, I'd wipe it down with lacquer thinner or brake cleaner and then paint. also, the two guys having the problem with regular rustoleum are in CA. wouldn't be suprised if your formulation is different. I'd probably stick with the professional or industrial stuff if I were you.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 06:57 PM

Quote:

Rolling paint on is much easier than spraying. There is no mess, I just have some blue tape along the window edges and around the door handles, nothing on the floor, no big plastic drapes, etc. No overspray to cover all the other stuff in my garage either and NO SMELL.

The technique is easy, just roll it on and it evens itself out.

The problem I have is, I'll have a great looking car with about 10hrs total work into it...BUT YOU CAN'T TOUCH IT OR THE PAINT WILL SCRATCH OFF

Somehow I think rustoleum just doesn't bond well to urethane primer.

Maybe if I can figure a way to spray some clear over the top?




the problem you have is with the initial bond with the primer. i hope you did a test area and not the whole car ???? spraying clear on the paint will not solve the problem. there must be a issue with the surface prep. i've painted over urethane primer with no issues.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 07:12 PM

I already did paint the whole car. I did a small test area and it seemed to work fine, but I didn't try and scrape it that hard :lol:
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 07:25 PM

hi all,
new here,but have been reading this post,,,and even trying the painting myself,,i'll try and post a pic.
i'll talk more later about what i used,,,just wanted to see if the pic would upload.

Attached picture 2480260-trucks033.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 07:32 PM

Been following this thread for awhile. I'm a little confused on one point though. Should one use a primer/sealer or not? I'm in the process of stripping my car to bare metal, and am wondering if I will be just painting the Rustoleum over the metal directly, or primer first? Also, has anyone done the paint over something like Rust Bullet or Por 15?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 07:57 PM

Hey Guys
Right now I am painting my hole car.
I am using Rustoleum Professional thinned with mineral spirits. And so far so good. The adhesion of the paint is good. I almost can't scratch the paint and I did my second coat this morning. I am painting over Base Coat and Clear Coat without even sanding except for making the surface smooth (the clear coat of my car it is peeling off). I am just using a scratch pad with soapy water and then, when it is dry, cleaning with rag and acetone.
The Rustoleum professional dries in 2 or 3 hours, at least here in Florida with 80 Fahrenheit.
Do not use acetone, doesn't work. Acetone dries to quickly. There is no time for the paint to "self level", and the coat turns out too thick
Good luck to all of you!
I will keep you updated
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 09:51 PM

Quote:

Been following this thread for awhile. I'm a little confused on one point though. Should one use a primer/sealer or not? I'm in the process of stripping my car to bare metal, and am wondering if I will be just painting the Rustoleum over the metal directly, or primer first? Also, has anyone done the paint over something like Rust Bullet or Por 15?




if the whole car was bare metal, i'd use the rustoleum/tremclad primer, if it's just spots i would not bother with the primer. i've never painted over completely bare metal. but i'd immagine nothing would happen if you just used the paint right over the metal. i've painted over por 15 on some suspension parts no issues, rust bullet i'd think should be no issue.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 09:54 PM

Quote:

Hey Guys
Right now I am painting my hole car.
I am using Rustoleum Professional thinned with mineral spirits. And so far so good. The adhesion of the paint is good. I almost can't scratch the paint and I did my second coat this morning. I am painting over Base Coat and Clear Coat without even sanding except for making the surface smooth (the clear coat of my car it is peeling off). I am just using a scratch pad with soapy water and then, when it is dry, cleaning with rag and acetone.
The Rustoleum professional dries in 2 or 3 hours, at least here in Florida with 80 Fahrenheit.
Do not use acetone, doesn't work. Acetone dries to quickly. There is no time for the paint to "self level", and the coat turns out too thick
Good luck to all of you!
I will keep you updated




sounds good, resist the urge to do the scratch test!!! wait about 4 months, i'd bet it'll be fine. the only advise i can say is that i would still sand the car with 400 to remove any wax, ect, and give the new paint something to "grab" onto. post some pics!!!
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 09:56 PM

Quote:

hi all,
new here,but have been reading this post,,,and even trying the painting myself,,i'll try and post a pic.
i'll talk more later about what i used,,,just wanted to see if the pic would upload.




looks good, it'll look amazing after wetsanding/polishing.
Posted By: Jerry

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 10:10 PM

are these gloss paints being used or just the standard rustoleum ones? i know that on the rustoleum site the specificy gloss black and gloss of other colors but not all of them. does a gloss paint need to used for it to be shiny? i'm thinking of trying this on my satellite when the weather gets better up here in michigan.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/16/06 10:40 PM

Quote:

are these gloss paints being used or just the standard rustoleum ones? i know that on the rustoleum site the specificy gloss black and gloss of other colors but not all of them. does a gloss paint need to used for it to be shiny? i'm thinking of trying this on my satellite when the weather gets better up here in michigan.




yes, they are gloss paints, it says on the can what the finish is.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/17/06 05:53 AM

Did you try putting a heat lamp or hitting a spot with a heat gun to see what happens if you accellerate the cure with the heat? I haven't heard of anyone trying it yet, and I found using heat on repairs I had to do was the only way I could get them on the road fast enough.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/17/06 12:21 PM

I've been reading this lately and I just wanted to test this out on a spare door I can get from a junkyard. The only problem I am having is wetsanding, now I understand the grits and spraying down the paper, sanding, then cleaning with the shammy and clean water. But how deep do you want to go when you actually do your first 2 coats then resand with a higher grit. Also I've seen some forums about wetsanding and they said to use soap with a bucket of water, but dont specify on what kind or if it helps / worsens, the situation. 69Charger or anybody else wish to enlighten me?
Thanks
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/17/06 01:36 PM

If you have no runs, just wetsand it until it's smooth (you can see this by wiping the area with water or mineral spirits), which normally doesn't take too much paint off. But it removes the gloss, and there's a fresh cut potato smell (!). I had some runs in my most recent test area, and I'm having to wetsand more because I do the whole area, not just where the run is. In that case, sand until the run disappears.

Also when you're wetsanding, when you spray the surface it will be tiny water drops. After sanding, if you spray water, the water will be more evenly dispersed. It's a good way to tell if you've missed an area with your sandpaper. Also I would use a foam sanding block with the 600/800/1500 grit wrapped around it. I have been using that, and it doesn't load up like it might with a hard block.
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/17/06 02:31 PM

I always use a bucket with some dishwashing soap. No particular brand, just what the wife has in the kitchen. I don't use much either. Usually about two tbl spoons to a 5gal bucket.

I also use a spray bottle with a little soapy water. It helps to give your panel a quick spray from the bottle if your sanding block is starting to hang up / stick. Hopefully everyone is using a sanding block! The rubber ones work well. I also use a piece of heater hose with the paper wrapped around it for the curved areas. Finally there are foam sanding blocks that work well for tight spots where a regular block, or hose wont work.

To check how the sanding is going I use a soft squegy (sp) I find it works better than using a cloth to wipe away the water. It also makes seeing the low spots / orange peel very easy.

-Dave
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/17/06 04:44 PM

hi all,
i tried to post a little about my experience earlier,but by the time i got done writing the (novel)and submit it,it wouldnt submit.i do want to thank "69charger"for bringing this method of painting to light. .in he beginning he said it would take patience and practice,and i cant agree more,but after about 4 or 5 weeks of playing around,my project is actually starting to show some promise.thanks again "69charger".

Attached picture 2482732-trucks034.jpg
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/17/06 05:19 PM

That looks nice, what color is that? Is that standard rustoleum?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/17/06 07:12 PM

standard rustoleum,"sand" color,it has quite a gloss to it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/18/06 11:19 PM

Ok guys...i need more advice! Check out the following pictures:

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/18/06 11:20 PM

And a bit closer:

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/18/06 11:30 PM

...the best i can describe it is, that "orange peel" reminds me of wood that has been infested with termites. When I try to wet sand, this stuff is impossible to sand out (it's so deep in the finish). When I try to use the polishing compound, the cavities that you see shine brighter because it is paint that hasn't been sanded at all (it's so much further down level-wise than the rest of the paint).

I think I may have the solution, but I want you guys opinion:

1.) I think I may have had the paint too thick on each of the six layers. The bubbles seemed to stay longer than what I gathered from others postings and although the paint did settle some, it tended to get "tacky" with a considerable amount of "orange peel" still in it.

2.) I did not sand the "orange peel" completely out between coats...should I? I basically just sounded it down a bit and went with another coat thinking the final wet-sanding would probably take care of the rest. Again, should I take out ALL of the "orange peel" between coats??

I have sanded the trunk lid down and basically started again. Believe it or not, it took getting most of the paint off to finally get all of the "orange peel"...ridiculous!!

I just about gave it up today, but I am gonna give it some more time. It seems to be working so well for some of you guys. Hope you can help me...thanks in advance, Chuck
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/18/06 11:57 PM

Hi Chuck, I've seen those in my paint too, and I agree the paint you're putting on is probably too thick. On the standard rustoleum test area I did, when the paint dried it was nice and smooth and glossy, there shouldn't be much of any orange peel. So go a little thinner, and when you wetsand make sure there are no low spots like in your picture.

You could wetsand at this point with something agressive like 400-600 grit to get the surface smooth again and get rid of those pits, then probably 4 more thin coats would do it, sanding with 800 then 1500 and water.
Posted By: tscuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/19/06 01:12 AM

The thing to remember is it's a Alkyd enamel. Which means it's a very slow drying paint. Thats the main reason why it was fazed from auto use. Sure it feels dry to the touch over night but it has a long way to go. The thicker you put it on. The longer it will be soft. I painted a old furd pick up once with it. I got 8 qt's of Ditzler (b4 the PPG name change)for 10 bucks. Took better then 2 months for the stuff to dry good. I will be spraying my 74 Sat with Rustoleum (3 parts orange 1 part yellow )But I will be spraying over a red primer to keep it thin.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/19/06 02:21 AM

I did some more buffing out on my test panels today (see Project Beer Fridge) and feel confident enough to make a few observations. I think the important point to remember in all this is that your are trying to accomplish an auto paint job on a budget. Atomized paint is going to go on better (less orange peel tecture) than anything rollered on. Period. If this were not the case, auto manufacturers would still be rollering on paint. The trade off for low cost is elbow grease. The bumps you're seeing in your paint job need to be sanded out if you expect to get a mirror finish. End of story. Yes, it's gonna take more coats than you expected. It's also going to take way more time than you expected. The results CAN be glass smooth in the end but you've got to be willing to put the time in to make it so. That means a significant amount of time sanding, painting, sanding, painting, sanding, painting... see what I mean. The alternative is sending the car to the body shop and opening up your wallet. Remember, this whole thread started (basically) as a discussion on how to paint your car with $50. If you're going to factor in your time in $ amounts, then it's an entirely different story.

If you are looking for a smoother surface, I would suggest sanding down again until you're satisfied with the surface, then perhaps thinning the paint a little more before giving it another coat. Be warned, you will still need to sand it again if in the end you want a "mirror" type finish. The areas that I was willing to do the same, came out very nice - glass smooth. The areas that I chose not to sand so aggressively came out with a reasonable orange peel texture. It was only my beer fridge after all, but it was also a test bed of sorts. I can definitely see where if you wanted to do an entire car, and expect to get a superior paint job in the end, you are going to need to invest quite a bit of time. To some, time is cheap, to others time is expensive. That's for you to decide.

JMHO

Rick
Posted By: toplescuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/19/06 02:34 AM

can/does that paint come in petty blue?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/19/06 04:19 AM

I guess the thing to understand is, the pictures you are seeing are very minimal "orange peel" compared to when I started buffing this morning. The "orange peel" was terrible and very unexceptable. To remove it, I had to be extemely aggressive with the sanding and sandpaper...800/1000 grit would not begin to touch this stuff. I continually sanded and eventually went to 80 grit to get rid of it and what you are seeing is after the 80 grit...yes after!! You can just imagine what it was like before...terrible.

As far as drying, this was a weeks worth of layering and this stuff was hard as a rock. No worries about dry time...

Unless i'm just missing something, Exit1965 is getting exceptional results...I mean, i'm not looking for perfection. I'm willing to sacrifice. I've had $5000 paint jobs that look like glass and I know that is not what i'm gonna get with this, but I do expect something at least presentable and as good as everyone else. I have friends locally that use enamel regularly with good results (although it is sprayed).

I'm currently trying it considerably thinner with what seems to be better results so far...I guess we'll see. Thanks, Chuck
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/19/06 06:48 AM

My OPINION first of all is, good ain't cheap,cheap ain't good!But moving on,I heard the idea of using heat to help CURE the finish,I have'nt heard anyone mention AIRFLOW.Solvents are what is used to help atomize it through the gun onto to the surface being sprayed.After being applicated,these solvents evaporate leaving the more solid material,(paint),behind,also aiding in curing.Ya gotta have the airflow to dry the paint.It's that simple.Extra time in between coats will help but don't exceed manufacturer's recs.Usually heat and airflow work together,but some kinds of paint tend to stay or become soft with heat and start to harden as they cool.For the most part,be above 65*F and have the airflow.When wiping for final prep,regardless what you use be sure you wipe it completly BEFORE it dries,otherwise a film will be left behind altering adhesion.As for buffing,you're better off waiting until the paint is hard or close to it.The friction from the pad will help soften the paint and will help with smoothing out the scratches and bringing to a shine.Good luck!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/19/06 01:57 PM

cheap CAN be good,and good CAN be cheap.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/19/06 08:03 PM

i think we could stop on and on about spraying paint. it's been done like a million times in this thread and i've allways said if you have the skill, time and $, then do it. if you have this tequnique down pat, the process is very simple and does'nt require alot of work. if you apply the paint properly, wetsanding does not take long. i can wetsand the car after 2 coats in about 1-2 hours. i've had $5000 paint jobs, usualy that does'nt involve stripping the car of all chrome, rubber, door handles, ect....to get that done it costs mega $. this method of painting is ment for the average joe, who has a sweet ride in their garage, and all it needs is paint. granted, the job will look as good as the time and effort you put into it. following the whole process on a test peice will let you determine if you have what it takes to do it or not, if not your out a few $ and you can then fork out the $ to someone and have them do it for you. no matter what, if you want it done right, do it yourself, even at $5000, i'm not happy with the job done, but i'm picky, nobody will pay as much attention to detail on YOUR car as YOU will. i've done it all, sprayed my own cars, had it done, and rollered my cars. the outcome is allways the same, because i take the time to do it right. having done both methods myself, i can say it is much eaiser to roller on paint than spray, theres no mess, it's much less stressfull, and you can take your time doing it. as far as the comments on heating the paint to accelerate cureing, the air flow comment is the best way to cure paint. i've mentioned before that it's a good idea to put some fans on the car to accelerate drying. however i find with the rust paint that you can wetsand and polish it the next day unlike sprayed single stage paint jobs, where it's better to wait a few months before you do it. some people have trouble using this method, and some people have very good results, you must take into account the skill of the person, if it is the first time you're painting expect a long learning curve.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/19/06 08:32 PM

Quote:

i think we could stop on and on about spraying paint. it's been done like a million times in this thread and i've allways said if you have the skill, time and $, then do it...




Yes 69chargeryeehaa, i'm in 100% agreement with you. I think what you and the other guys have done with this technique is super and I am very grateful to you for bringing it to our attention. I've tried to add pictures, ask questions, leave feedback as to what i'm doing and how i'm doing for two reasons:

1.) to get your (and the others who are actually TRYING this technique) opinions and advice to proceed.

2.) leave my "trials and tribulations" here for the next guy that may come along and have the same problems and can learn from mine and others mistakes (and successes).

You and I (and everyone else) know there are other ways of getting a paint job, but this particular thread is alive to further our knowledge of this technique that you have so gratiously brought to light...

Thanks to 69chargeryeehaa, Exit1965, Ricklandia and the others who are "in the trenches getting their feet wet". I will forge ahead and keep posting my experiences...thanks again , Chuck
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/19/06 11:44 PM

I have been following this thread with great interest, but have a couple of questions. I have read that hard to reach places can be difficult to cover. Is there a technique for this? Does anyone think that underneath the hood or trunk needs to be buffed out or just left as is after final sanding? Also, what about water spots on the paint after it is all said and done, wax and all. I live in a rainy area and am worried about water spots forming before the paint has cured. Thanks again for all the input from everyone. This thing is spreading like wildfire!!
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 12:27 AM

Quote:

I have been following this thread with great interest, but have a couple of questions. I have read that hard to reach places can be difficult to cover. Is there a technique for this? Does anyone think that underneath the hood or trunk needs to be buffed out or just left as is after final sanding? Also, what about water spots on the paint after it is all said and done, wax and all. I live in a rainy area and am worried about water spots forming before the paint has cured. Thanks again for all the input from everyone. This thing is spreading like wildfire!!




i've haven't had any issues with water spots, just as any other auto paint from the factory. as for underhood and trunk, i just use a roller where i can which is about 80%, the rest is done with a foam brush, first use the foam brush, then the roller, you have the brush in one hand and the roller in the other. i don't sand/polish the underhood and door jambs, it looks fine just as it is. the wetsanding and buffing is only done for the exterior that you see. it does not look out of place at all, the natural finish looks great, besides those areas such as door jambs are full of curves, ect...and it's hard to even see a difference in finish at all.

chuckthompson - your welcome, i hope i could help out a few people with this tequnique, it's really helped me out, all the extra money i save in paint is spent on mechanics, my cars have perfect mechanics thanks to this paint job, and new chrome, rubber, tires, exhaust, ect.....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 01:55 AM

Thanks 69Charger. Great stuff here. I am a VW, Porsche guy and saw this on another forumn also. I plan on painting my 68 bug soon so I will let you guys know how it is coming. Thanks again!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 02:14 AM

Well I've got some results I'm very happy with. This morning I applied the final coat of professional rustoleum (not the 6th coat, since I screwed up a few times), then about 8 hours later, wetsanded with 1500. Immediately after that, I polished with a cheap random orbital sander and cheap turtle wax polish.

here is a picture where I put a grinder case to show the nice reflection..



The shine on this area is definately as good, maybe a bit better, than with the standard rustoleum (the area I just finished was done with Professional rustoleum from Lowes). For those who have not been reading all of this thread, I found in my case that I could scratch the standard Rustoleum and not scratch the professional rustoleum in my previous test areas. On my last professional test area, the surface was in such crappy shape that there was no way to compare it to the standard rustoleum area which was fairly straight, so I straightened out the area in the pic above, and started rollering the professional stuff.

one more pic;


I'm really happy with how it turned out, and when I roll my Dart (1-2 months from now, I hope) I'll be using the Professional rustoleum.

regarding scratches, maybe it's a california thing - but I can use my nail to scratch off the paint on the standard rustoleum can (which has had about 5-6 weeks of drying), but cannot do the same to the professional rustoleum can (4 weeks of drying) so I'm definately going to use the prof. stuff, the price difference is maybe a dollar a quart so there is no reason not to.

I made an album on Flikr to make it easier to upload photos, and there are some other pics I took along with the 2 above. As well as one of my dart which will be coated in this stuff 2 months from now.

here it is:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/xit1965/

you can click any picture then click the little "all sizes" button to see a bigger version or see the full size version (which isn't too big anyways).

Thanks again 69Chargeryeeha

Posted By: Jerry

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 02:42 AM

ok heres a question. i only found rustoleum professional in the quart cans. how many cans will it take to paint a whole car? i plan on doing black. now if i need to buy quart cans should i mix all of them together first to make sure the pigment is even? i know on jambs and trunks and engine compartment it won't matter but for the surface it might. if i did one panel at a time. whats the opinion on this? also is there a base rustomleum professional that can be tinted or do you have to use the colors available? if it can be tinted i might go with something other than black.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 03:21 AM

What does the professional can look like?

All I can find around here is small white quart cans and big silver gallon cans (I only used a quart to paint my whole Z.

There is no way I'm going to sand this whole thing off to repaint it, but I wouldn't mind doing another 2 coats over the top with professional if it will help.
Posted By: ONEBADBIRD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 03:26 AM

Exit1965. Hats off to you man Looks great!! Professional Rustoleum it is then I agree!!! O.K. everybody get out your rollers and start painting them cars now. I will also start my ride in about 2 months I can't wait. Thanks for yours (exit1965) and 69chargers "101 class" on this great money saving idea It just might make it possible to get the ride on the road by this fall. All I need now is the time. Thanks Jay
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 03:47 AM

Here's the professional can and the standard can. Just to be safe I think I'll go to lowes and buy 4-5 quarts just so I have it.



I know 69charger said he used under a gallon for his charger. i'm going to plan on screwing up a few times, so I would buy at least a gallons worth + a quart for an old mopar.

jagd, you might want to wait a while to see if it hardens up for you, then if not consider putting 2 more coats like you said, after wetsanding with 800 or so.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 03:52 AM

Quote:

ok heres a question. i only found rustoleum professional in the quart cans. how many cans will it take to paint a whole car? i plan on doing black. now if i need to buy quart cans should i mix all of them together first to make sure the pigment is even? i know on jambs and trunks and engine compartment it won't matter but for the surface it might. if i did one panel at a time. whats the opinion on this? also is there a base rustomleum professional that can be tinted or do you have to use the colors available? if it can be tinted i might go with something other than black.





I plan on mixing 4 quarts together in a gallon can just to make sure the color is the same. For the last test run, I've opened the rustoleum can ONCE - and poured it into a yogurt container with a nice lid, and mixed the mineral spirits in with it. I kept using that mixture over the past 5 days, just adding a bit of mineral spirits each time as it seems to thicken up a bit over a day.

if you haven't practiced (even if you have...), plan on screwing up a few times so get enough paint where you dont have to worry..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 05:11 AM

I'll see how it feels after a month or so and then maybe go back over it.

I am painting my car 2 different colors (red and white), I noticed that the red mixes VERY differently than the white with mineral spirits. It takes a lot more mineral spirits to thin it, and it tends to bubble more than the white for some reason.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 03:00 PM

Looks awesome, Exit! That came out very nice, even with the garage light. I was concerned with the Professional, because I thought that shine might not have been as high of a priority as durability. I'm going to pick some of that up and do the reverse side of my test panel.

In retrospect with my unsuccessful test, my prep sucked (didn't get all of the oil off the surface from the mill), and I laid the coats way too thick. However, I can go back to my panel now (it's been about a month) and I can't put my fingernail through to the bare metal. I used red, and as Jag indicated, I think it requires a bit more mineral spirits than some of the other colors.

I'll probably start rolling my dune buggy next month. Thanks for all of the insight and updates, guys...
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 03:22 PM

nice exit1965, glad to hear the professional worked out for you. i really think that it is a CA thing, other people have no issues with the standard rustoleum. as for mixing the quarts together, it could'nt hurt, but i have to say at least with the tremclad i bought a can 3 years later to repaint a fender due to parking lot damage, and the color was an exact match. also i know that some stores carry only quart cans, like the tremclad i had to go to 3 stores before i found it in a gal can. exit-start rollering that damm car, i saw in the pic how badly it wants a nice coat of paint and get out of that damm garage!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 03:53 PM

Quote:

I'll see how it feels after a month or so and then maybe go back over it.

I am painting my car 2 different colors (red and white), I noticed that the red mixes VERY differently than the white with mineral spirits. It takes a lot more mineral spirits to thin it, and it tends to bubble more than the white for some reason.




I will agree with the first part of your observations. With the consumer grade paint, I found the Gloss White to be significantly thicker than the Gloss Sunrise Red right out of the can. However, when I got the dilution right, I saw no difference in how it applied.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 04:18 PM

Quote:

exit-start rollering that damm car, i saw in the pic how badly it wants a nice coat of paint and get out of that damm garage!!!




Man, the paint job is going to be the easy (and cheap!) part. It has no drivetrain, but I have a '66 383/727 out of a Fury I'll be dumping in it.. hope to have it out of the garage under its own power this summer!

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 05:07 PM

Now that I know this paint job works, I need to get Home Depot to blend me some sublime green to paint my Challenger with!

What I really need is someone local who can do body work for me, I need some metal welded in, and that's something I can't do
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 06:01 PM

great post! I have someone picking up some tremclad very soon for me. I wanna do a test of that and the proffesional rustolem to see side by side differences.

Is there a page online that shows all the available tremclad colors? All I see when I go to the website is a pic of the spay can.
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/20/06 06:41 PM

I used Rustoleum spraybomb professional on the gas tank of the sig car. I did it about 10 years ago, and it's still holding up well. I live on a dirt road too, so you know rocks get thrown at it regularly. It gets harder than the regular rustoleum and is a whole lot less gummy/sticky.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/21/06 05:03 PM

hey guys, i dont wanna sound redundant but i too have been following this thread ever since it started and man o man am i excited to get started on my car. I just bought a cheap project car which definetly needs cosmetic help. Here's a pic. And i need some help. These people used this car as a parade car through art festivals and what not.The art work on the car seems to be with acrylic paint and is very thick. I'm trying to sand it down but is taking forever. I will be painting it with RUST-OLEUM that i got tinted from homedepot last night to a METROPOLITAN tint. What is the best method of sanding down this car to a somewhat smooth surface for rust-oleum to be smooth or will the end result be thick enough to smoothen out itself? Thanks for all the good info GUYs!!!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/21/06 05:23 PM

Dont expect the rustoleum to be thick enough to cover any surface issues up! especially high spots from old artwork. Spend time sanding to get the surface very smooth, or it will definately show.

what grit are you using and what type of block? I would think 100 or 120 would be a good start for the artwork without doing too much extra damage to the surrounding paint, then go over it with 180 or 220 to get rid of sanding scratches before painting.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/21/06 05:45 PM



you could also try a palm sander with 80 grit and light pressure.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/21/06 06:00 PM

Personally - just frame the art and buy something else and start over!! Or.......remember the saying "If you can't fix it, feature it" and build your project around the art.

Curious, what kind of project are you doing - at first I thought it was a Fiesta, but is it a Civic?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/21/06 08:42 PM

I think it's a FestivaL...

It will take some work getting that surface level, but I'm sure it will come out nice with some elbow grease.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/21/06 08:48 PM

that's a civic
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/21/06 09:24 PM

I'm more interested to see what happens when you pry all that "stuff" that looks to be glued on the car!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/21/06 10:01 PM

O..i already pried all those ornaments off total of 185...the glue was a bitch to take off so i went to pepboys and asked for their strongest glue/sticker remover and it DID the job. I;m using a sander, not a orbital one though its a square one, i'm using a 65Grit yea 65, i just started on the hood and boy o boy its taking forever!!! THe original owners painted this car with i dunno what but its tough. The cars original color is WHITE, they painted it RED and then the art work on top. But its coming off..to a point where i'm slowly see'ing metal on the hood, here are some pics.


Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/21/06 10:47 PM

A rotary sander with some heavy grit (80?) may be more of your friend getting the paint off. I'm sure it will be more aggressive than the square one you speak of (I'm assuming a palm sander).

I'm no expert, but I have stripped a bit of paint before...
Posted By: KingMopar

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/22/06 12:04 AM

Just "curing" wise.....I just shot some Rustolium Satin on my dash, ashtray and glovebox. The Satin lists Acetone as it's thinner. Each part was sandblasted, metal prepped, wiped with Prep-Sol, dryed and first a level of thin green etching done, light resand, then shot. My first piece was the glovebox, and noticed the paint was too thick even thinned to the Rustolium's recommended 15%(It showed the same exact "orange peel" effect, as the gentlemen showed above--though he was rolling, and this was Satin, not gloss!) Upon adding thinning it farther, round 10%, it flowed like glass on the other parts, self leveled, with several "sprayed" coats(and I tried to help level the glovebox with more thinned coats--bad mistake)

The dash and ashtry finished, I concentrated on the glovebox, which had sat 3 days. Wet sanded with 600 to get the orange peel/sag out....slight wipe with Prepsol getting ready for the shoot, and the paint wiped completely off..and the rest could be scratched via fingernail-aka, still soft.(sound familiar...and I'm a shooter, not a roller)

So..in a nutshell, either shooting or rolling, the paint really needs to be on the thinner side of life to prevent the orange peel effect-- and any sanding breaks the upper crust of where the paint has hardened. For full, full boned cure, me also thinks far over a month is gonna be the norm, for the fingernail test--especially for mineral spirits which will take far longer to gas off.

We did parts(but shot) on my Bud's Camaro some years back with Rustolium, inner fenders, etc...and properly cured, tough as nails--and he washes the poop outta it.

So....Keep on Roll'n....interesting thread.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/22/06 01:25 AM

how bad is the red paint underneath all of the artwork? Did they just brush that on too? If so, you've got plenty of sanding to do I would think, if you are shooting for a smooth finish that is. I was gonna suggest chemical stripping, but that would probably be a toxic nightmare given how much has to come off. I've done small sections before, but never a whole car. That stuff really works, but it is really nasty, to your skin, to the air (vapors are brutal), and the mess it makes getting all the paint off. It might take longer, but I'd stay with the sanding.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/22/06 02:45 AM

Quote:

how bad is the red paint underneath all of the artwork? Did they just brush that on too? If so, you've got plenty of sanding to do I would think, if you are shooting for a smooth finish that is. I was gonna suggest chemical stripping, but that would probably be a toxic nightmare given how much has to come off. I've done small sections before, but never a whole car. That stuff really works, but it is really nasty, to your skin, to the air (vapors are brutal), and the mess it makes getting all the paint off. It might take longer, but I'd stay with the sanding.




Well no, it looks like legit car redpaint but they did a HORRIBLE job, it like dripped on to the skirt oversprayed on the emblem, might even be a rattle car job, but its very thick, the art work is thick too :S But yea, gonna take me a while to sand all that. Not in a rush anyways, i dont have a garage to paint it to begin with, so i'm trying to arrange a garage at my friends.

PS: Its this point i feel like "WTF am i doing! "
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/22/06 11:03 PM

Well got it to be pretty smooth now with 65grit then 120 i think prolly will do one more with 300 later.


Posted By: gdub

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/23/06 09:17 PM

I've been reading this thread the last couple of days and it looks like the answer for painting my truck. My question is will bondo work over the rustoleum primer? My truck is bare metal and in need of a fair amount of filler. Can I prime it and then bondo or do I bondo and then prime?

Thanks in advance,
Gary
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/23/06 10:07 PM

Quote:

I've been reading this thread the last couple of days and it looks like the answer for painting my truck. My question is will bondo work over the rustoleum primer? My truck is bare metal and in need of a fair amount of filler. Can I prime it and then bondo or do I bondo and then prime?

Thanks in advance,
Gary




sand the metal area to be repaired with 60 grit to give the bondo something to bond to, then use the bondo, then finish it with 400-600 grit then go to primer, or if you wish straight to paint.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/23/06 11:14 PM

how does the paint adhere to plastics? I have plastic bumpers and was also thinking about using it on hard interior parts.

Sweet stuff!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 02:52 AM

How long should I wait before waxing this thing? I would like to have a couple of layers of wax to protect everything, but I don't want to put it on before the paint has cured...or does it matter?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 03:21 AM

GOOD QUESTION!!!!
I've been considering that for my Miata, which has been recieving a daily dose of sandblasting because of all the highway construction underway around here. The plastic front bumper is a now a pitted mess from all the stones, sand and everything else. I haven't even considered doing anything to it until all the road work is done, but it shouldn't be too much longer.

Having a little bit of experience with this paint so far, I'm optomistic that it will adhere to plastic bumpers well, but have no concrete evidence yet. I just bought a new car for my daughter tonight and will have her old POS Ford Escort toclean up for resale. I had to replace the front bumper and fender on it last year (courtesy of my son!) and just did a quickie rattle can spray job on it. It's white, and I just happen to have some white Rustoleum left over from Project Beer Fridge. If I try it out (even on a small section) I 'll make sure to post some results. The Escort bumper, although plastic, is significantly stiffer than the Miata bumper. Could be interesting. Anyone try this?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 04:05 AM

I have not had any problem painting the plastic bumpers in my car. The paint adhesion is the same than the metal or painted surfaces.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 04:10 AM

Quote:

I have not had any problem painting the plastic bumpers in my car. The paint adhesion is the same than the metal or painted surfaces.





Sweeeeeeet...
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 04:12 AM

Quote:

How long should I wait before waxing this thing? I would like to have a couple of layers of wax to protect everything, but I don't want to put it on before the paint has cured...or does it matter?




I don't have an answer - but what kind of wax are you talking about? It is different than the cheap turtle wax polish you already applied (or did you?). If you're talking the polish, it can be applied right after the final wetsand- but wax maybe a different animal.. 69charger has probably done it, charger, where art thou?

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 05:39 AM

Question:

When wetsanding between the coats, how do you wash/clean the wetsanded residue off? Water? mineral spirits? or SOAP WATER? Thanks, Also would it matter if i painted outside, since i do not have a garage? Will dust and dirt stick to the paint or is it thin enough (considering it has been thinned such as the directions state) that it will dry fast enough and not catching alot of dust/dirt. Also, lol how long does the coats take to dry, say i get the first coat on in the morning. 4-5hours?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 08:42 AM

Exit1965,

I'm talking about real wax, Carnuba or whatever your preference. Just like any other car, I wanna keep the paint safe hehe

bakuryu,

You need to wash the residue off. I just wipe it down with a clean rag and water...let it dry...then wipe everything with mineral spirits again to make sure it's clean. I do get some dust sitcking to the paint (i'm painting in my garage), but it's easy to sand out when you are wetsanding. each coat of paint takes about 90 minutes to harden over and about 4hours to dry enough to wetsand from my experience. I usually put a coat of paint on in the morning then another in the evening and wetsand the next morning.
Posted By: patrick

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 01:17 PM

Quote:

Exit1965,

I'm talking about real wax, Carnuba or whatever your preference. Just like any other car, I wanna keep the paint safe hehe

bakuryu,

You need to wash the residue off. I just wipe it down with a clean rag and water...let it dry...then wipe everything with mineral spirits again to make sure it's clean. I do get some dust sitcking to the paint (i'm painting in my garage), but it's easy to sand out when you are wetsanding. each coat of paint takes about 90 minutes to harden over and about 4hours to dry enough to wetsand from my experience. I usually put a coat of paint on in the morning then another in the evening and wetsand the next morning.




could try denatured alcohol instead of mineral spirits, too. it's mild, so it shouldn't take the paint off like laquer thinner would, and it has a really short flash time, so it would dry much quicker than the mineral spirits. and alcohol will absorb any moisture left over from wiping it down with water.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 03:25 PM

Well like the directions suggest, you have to do 2coats then wetsand, the 2 coats and wetsand, the 2 coats and polish. Well when doing the first two coats should i just do the second coat of the first set, after the 90minutes of it hardening or after the complete 4hours, I know these seem to be small stupid questions, but i dont want to get any thing wrong.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 03:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

How long should I wait before waxing this thing? I would like to have a couple of layers of wax to protect everything, but I don't want to put it on before the paint has cured...or does it matter?




I don't have an answer - but what kind of wax are you talking about? It is different than the cheap turtle wax polish you already applied (or did you?). If you're talking the polish, it can be applied right after the final wetsand- but wax maybe a different animal.. 69charger has probably done it, charger, where art thou?






i've allways waxed right after the final polish, never had issues, and the paint on both my cars is rock hard, but i never intentionally tried a scratch test on my cars, only reciently when the whole scratch debate started did i test the charger, which was painted 5 months ago.

as for the wetsanding, i clean the residue off while it's still wet, just after wetsanding, i use a shammy and a bucket of clean water, it's alot eaiser to clean while wet, then just before painting, i clean with mineral spirits, and then use a standard autobody "tach cloth" which is a sticky cheese cloth rag you can get at any auto parts store for $1, before i paint each pannel/area i use the tack cloth, and have virtually no dust/dirt issues.

as for painting over plastic bumpers, i've never had any problems with any parts i've painted, but like any paint if it's flexed enough it will crack. i've painted my 85 CRX bumpers, and my old 86 mustang gt, no issues with the paint sticking or cracking. the front fenders on the charger are fiberglass, i've popped them in and out while working on the engine by accident and nothing happened to the paint, in the sun when those fiberglass fenders heat up they get about 1/4" longer and expand from the heat, no issues.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 03:32 PM

Quote:

Well like the directions suggest, you have to do 2coats then wetsand, the 2 coats and wetsand, the 2 coats and polish. Well when doing the first two coats should i just do the second coat of the first set, after the 90minutes of it hardening or after the complete 4hours, I know these seem to be small stupid questions, but i dont want to get any thing wrong.




lets say you paint at 10am, wait until at least 7pm to do the next coat, if you do it too early like 90 mins, the new paint might make the old paint soft again. i've allways painted at 10 am or so, then 7pm, then next morning at 8am i'd start wetsanding, clean the whole car with a shamy, then mineral spirits, then tack cloth the area just before painting. this all depends on weather conditions, the hotter the better, but high humidity is your enemy, and you should wait longer. put fans on the car to accelerate the process, try to wetsand a small test area, if it wetsands fine, then your ready to do another coat, if it's still wet, and balls up when wetsanding let dry more.
Posted By: moper

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 04:46 PM

Quote:






wow. there's something I'll bet Tom neever expected to see on MOPARTS..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 04:48 PM

Thanks for the replies guys! Looks like I'll have my delivery of tremclad on sunday so I'm hoping early next week the process will begin.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 06:44 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the replies guys! Looks like I'll have my delivery of tremclad on sunday so I'm hoping early next week the process will begin.




I know Tremclad is tried and true, but in my book so is Rustoleum Pro (and Rustoleum standard for others) - if you use Tremclad on your car and you need some more of it down the road for a repair, it might be tougher to get than wandering down to your local Lowes. Then again, it may not be for you to get it through your current supplier.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 07:57 PM

yeah its more or less who do I know thats going to canada. I live about 2 hours from the boarder so I either need motivation to get it or a weekend getaway with the misses
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 09:48 PM

Quote:


i've allways waxed right after the final polish, never had issues, and the paint on both my cars is rock hard, but i never intentionally tried a scratch test on my cars, only reciently when the whole scratch debate started did i test the charger, which was painted 5 months ago.

as for the wetsanding, i clean the residue off while it's still wet, just after wetsanding, i use a shammy and a bucket of clean water, it's alot eaiser to clean while wet, then just before painting, i clean with mineral spirits, and then use a standard autobody "tach cloth" which is a sticky cheese cloth rag you can get at any auto parts store for $1, before i paint each pannel/area i use the tack cloth, and have virtually no dust/dirt issues.

as for painting over plastic bumpers, i've never had any problems with any parts i've painted, but like any paint if it's flexed enough it will crack. i've painted my 85 CRX bumpers, and my old 86 mustang gt, no issues with the paint sticking or cracking. the front fenders on the charger are fiberglass, i've popped them in and out while working on the engine by accident and nothing happened to the paint, in the sun when those fiberglass fenders heat up they get about 1/4" longer and expand from the heat, no issues.




Charger...
Did you do anything special when you prepped and painted the fiberglass fenders (prime)? I assume you received them and they had just a standard gelcoat, right?? I read that it (gelcoat) has a waxy type consistency/coating... Did you treat them like you would have a metal set of fenders? The buggy I'm soon to be painting is all fiberglass.

Sorry for all the ??'s, just trying to get some similar results.
Thanks for all your insight!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 11:34 PM

Quote:


wow. there's something I'll bet Tom neever expected to see on MOPARTS..




Hey! Whats wrong with my civic ? and why not hahah
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/24/06 11:48 PM

Quote:



Charger...
Did you do anything special when you prepped and painted the fiberglass fenders (prime)? I assume you received them and they had just a standard gelcoat, right?? I read that it (gelcoat) has a waxy type consistency/coating... Did you treat them like you would have a metal set of fenders? The buggy I'm soon to be painting is all fiberglass.

Sorry for all the ??'s, just trying to get some similar results.
Thanks for all your insight!!




well the fenders were allready painted when i got the car, it was a 20yr old single stage paint job, i just prepped the body, did the body work and painted right over the old paint. if your getting new fiberglass, i'd definetly prep it by sanding with 400 grit sand paper dry, not wet, then just paint as usual. that paint really sticks to fiberglass, i've painted my sail boat with it years ago, it lives outside still looks great. also when you sand the fiberglass, be sure you don't have any shiny spots from the gelcoat, only sand enough to get it dull, on fiberglass espically don't use any primer, there's no need. just sand and clean using mineral spirits, tremclad works amazing on fiberglass.
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/26/06 12:31 PM

This thread can't die!!!!!!!
Posted By: moper

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/26/06 03:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Hey! Whats wrong with my civic ? and why not hahah




I guess this thread has broken down barriers between sites...But it's a heck of a jump to a Budda civic. I'm sure it will keep growing tho..20 pags and still working to get more than a couple 100% sucess stories
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/26/06 04:38 PM

Quote:


Hey! Whats wrong with my civic ? and why not hahah




I guess this thread has broken down barriers between sites...But it's a heck of a jump to a Budda civic. I'm sure it will keep growing tho..20 pags and still working to get more than a couple 100% sucess stories
I have a 200% sucess story





also keep in mind that most of the people trying this need to still complete body work, and finish restoring mechanical issues before attempting this method, but at least there's light at the end of the tunnel now that people have a low-cost easy to do paint job and not be embarrased to take their ride out. i hope i help someone out who otherwise could'nt afford to have their car painted. but also i'm happy to see that people actually expirement with the whole process on a test door or hood before doing the whole car and making a big mess and giving up. once you perfect the process and have all the issues worked out you realize how easy it really is. i just want to help out a few guys get their rides on the road, that's all.
Posted By: PLUM_72

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/26/06 06:22 PM

I've been following the thread a little. One thing to add is that watch the foam roller you use. I was painting a bookshelf this weekend (storage for the garage). I came across two type of foam rollers; a yellow kind and a white kind. I bought both. I used the yellow on the first coat and got mega orange peel and bubbles. After that coat cured, I sanded down the peel and moved to the white type. This roller was was noticably finer in regards to the type of foam. The pores in the foam were much smaller. The white type barely left orange peel and bubbles. Check this out before you buy the roller.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/26/06 06:39 PM

So I got all my supplies today and here a 2 pack of 4 inch rollers was $7 and was wondering if there was a way to make them last.

I read that someone tried to reuse them and it didn't really paint the same way as a new one. Has anyone gotten a good paintjob with reusing them say a day later?

How many rollers did you end up using for the whole car?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/26/06 06:43 PM

Quote:

So I got all my supplies today and here a 2 pack of 4 inch rollers was $7 and was wondering if there was a way to make them last.

I read that someone tried to reuse them and it didn't really paint the same way as a new one. Has anyone gotten a good paintjob with reusing them say a day later?

How many rollers did you end up using for the whole car?




in home depot they have a 5 pk of rollers, i'd use 1 roller per day, 3 rollers in total, after the first coat, load up the roller with lots of paint and put it in a plastic bag, it will stay wet for that day, but the next day i'd use a new one.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/26/06 10:14 PM

Hey 69chargeryeehaa...finally got the hang of it and finished my trunk. Actually bought some Rustoleum in a spray can to do the underside and door hinges, etc...places I knew would be tough to roller. What i've discovered is, the spray can goes on extremely smooth and level!! Wondering what the advantages/disadvantages would be to spraying some of the coats on other areas of the car with a spray can...it's the same stuff I bought in the gallon container. Any thoughts??? Thanks, Chuck

PS...I will post some pix, but right now my trunk lid is sitting upside down drying!!
Posted By: moper

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/27/06 12:13 AM

69, I'm a natural pessemist (hence the name..), and I'm waiting to see a duplicate of your results. No harm done, I'm interested to see the final results work. But, so far, I've only seen some positive results, not a complete "Eureka! It worked " and pics of a completed car to show it. Maybe that Budda Honda will be it..he's workin' right along on it....
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/27/06 12:27 AM

Quote:

69, I'm a natural pessemist (hence the name..), and I'm waiting to see a duplicate of your results. No harm done, I'm interested to see the final results work. But, so far, I've only seen some positive results, not a complete "Eureka! It worked " and pics of a completed car to show it. Maybe that Budda Honda will be it..he's workin' right along on it....




i can understand all the doubt, and i think there's lots of good test peices, but everyone's holding out for someone to actually try it. guess my pics are not good enough, and that a member actually came and saw it in person, and commented (and that only cost me $20!!! ). everyone's probally thinking, ya right, lets all paint our cars with rollers, and 69chargeryeehaa's probally sitting there going .........muhahahaha........fools. lol, honestly it's only as good as you make it. how you lay paint down is irrevelant, what matters is that it's smooth and level, and not thick, then it's all in wetsanding and buffing, any good paint job involves the same process, just this is a low cost easy alternative that does'nt need all the expirence and equipment to turn out a decient job.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/27/06 12:37 AM

Quote:

69, I'm a natural pessemist (hence the name..), and I'm waiting to see a duplicate of your results. No harm done, I'm interested to see the final results work. But, so far, I've only seen some positive results, not a complete "Eureka! It worked " and pics of a completed car to show it. Maybe that Budda Honda will be it..he's workin' right along on it....




Give us time man! 69charger is right, not many people have a car with all the bodywork completely done that they can paint right away even if they wanted to. I know what this topic has done for me though -- instead of sluggishly getting through bodywork to arrive at the hassle of either shelling out a minimum of 800 (for a Miracle/Maaco quality job), plus hauling the car around, hoping they get it right, etc.. or trying to spray it myself and get it right-- I know it can work well and I'm zooming through prepping my car as I should have been doing all along.

i.e., now there is something exciting waiting for me when I'm done - the ability to paint it myself and have it look good; rather than something costly and unknown.

I really think I should be able to start painting my Dart within 2 weeks. I've been putting an average 2 hours per day in on it since last Monday, so at this rate the bodywork itself should be done in under 2 weeks but I'm allowing time for screwups.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/27/06 12:40 AM

Quote:

So I got all my supplies today and here a 2 pack of 4 inch rollers was $7 and was wondering if there was a way to make them last.

I read that someone tried to reuse them and it didn't really paint the same way as a new one. Has anyone gotten a good paintjob with reusing them say a day later?

How many rollers did you end up using for the whole car?




Granted I only painted a small test area, but on my last test area I used a single roller the whole time, which was over 5 days. I just cleaned it with mineral spirits after painting, put it in a ziplock bag (a big one), then when I pull it out to paint again, I just squeezed it with a paper towel to get all the mineral spirits off of it. I did not notice any difference in application from the first time to the last time.
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/27/06 12:47 AM

that $7 pack of rollers does it for me. screw this idea, it's now too expensive.
Posted By: RonaldV

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/27/06 01:43 AM

Hey guys, I hate to tell you this but April 1st is just around the corner. I think you have been had!

The one big problem with this that I can see is the paint wont want to keep a shine as there is no hardner added in it. Ive painted stuff with industrial tractor paint and it looks good for a year then starts to fade, especially if its kept outside. But if youve got 50 bucks to spend and some time, Id like to here if this actually works.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/27/06 01:55 AM

69chargeryeeha already proved that it actually works. That tractor would probably shine OK if you polished it a couple times a year, or put some wax on it, which is what needs to be done with this 50 dollar paint job.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/27/06 02:54 AM

Moper, I think your point is taken well. I agree with you somewhat on your reservations, but I think there are quite a few here that are taking up the roller in one manner or another here already, myself included. To be honest, I think many have undertaken this with thier own doubts, but for me personally, they were no greater doubts than had I picked up a spray gun and tried to paint a car with no experience. I can promise this, just as in spraying a car, there is definitely an "art" to using this method of painting, and for anyone to expect it to come out perfectly the first time around is foolish, same as if they spray a car for the first time. I'm actually glad to see so many "testing" this method out first, trying it on test panels, doors, and even as in my case, a refridgerator. I learned enough to believe it can be done, also enough to see that the results will look perfectly acceptable on a car. I, however, am not ready for that step yet 1. because the car is not ready, and 2. I need to practice more before I'M ready, at least to get the results I'd like to see on my car.
I would strongly suggest to anyone who's interested in this idea of roller painting to try it out, test if you will, before going gangbusters on a full car simply because I think if they don't, they will be dissapointed in the results. There is alot to learn, and seeing photos is just not enough. 69Charger is absolutely right when he says this is a great method for those who want a decent paint job on a budget. Period. Yes, you will get better results with a high quality spray job, but many of us just don't have that kind of budget to work with. JMHO
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/27/06 04:45 PM

21 Pages!! Woohoo!!
Quote:


well the fenders were allready painted when i got the car, it was a 20yr old single stage paint job, i just prepped the body, did the body work and painted right over the old paint. if your getting new fiberglass, i'd definetly prep it by sanding with 400 grit sand paper dry, not wet, then just paint as usual. that paint really sticks to fiberglass, i've painted my sail boat with it years ago, it lives outside still looks great. also when you sand the fiberglass, be sure you don't have any shiny spots from the gelcoat, only sand enough to get it dull, on fiberglass espically don't use any primer, there's no need. just sand and clean using mineral spirits, tremclad works amazing on fiberglass.



Thanks for the info... I had a feeling that the porous nature of the glass would "suck up" the paint pretty good.

On the other discussion, I am interested in this process so I won't be scared to drive my car. If I drop a couple grand on the spray job at the local body shop, I'll be a bundle of nerves and not drive this little beast the way it's meant to be driven. I plan on taking it on the beach, on trails, etc... I think it will be a economical to not only complete, but also to maintain when the scratches and chips come our way. Just my

I enjoy how it's opened up some barriers between enthusiasts of different kinds of cars with the same painting dilemma. Charger gets my Peace Prize vote.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/27/06 05:38 PM

No worries about the expensive rollers, I went to lowes and grabbed the 5 pack and the roller attachment (that also had a roller on it) for a total of 6 for about $12.

Gonna try and hit up a test area tonight if I can scrap up the time.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/27/06 07:54 PM

My white paint has had a month to cure and still scrapes off. There is no way this stuff will hold up to normal driving, so I'm going to have to sand it all off and try again.

Rustoleum says that there is no difference between California paints and other paints, they also say there is minimal difference in tremclad, but nothing that would make it less scratch resistant. Their tech claims that it scratches off of the surface because it hasn't cured fully (month is more than enough he says), or the surface wasn't prepped properly (they say no more than 120grit. He also said that even if the paint wasn't compatible with the primer or paint underneath it, as long as it was sanded with 120 or less, then it should bond and not scrape off.

I sanded mine with 80-100-150 before paint and gave it a month to dry. There is no difference in hardness in 1 week vs 1 month from what I can tell.

I'll try the professional paint and see how that goes, although he said the onyl difference is how fast it dries.
Posted By: Anonymous

If everything else is the same which is better? - 03/27/06 08:09 PM

for this task, Rustoleum pro or tractor paint?

Both offer the color I want, but I've seen a few folks suggest just going with tractor paint, so figured I better ask.

Is there going to be a hoot's worth of difference?

thanks!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/27/06 09:06 PM

Quote:

My white paint has had a month to cure and still scrapes off. There is no way this stuff will hold up to normal driving, so I'm going to have to sand it all off and try again.

Rustoleum says that there is no difference between California paints and other paints, they also say there is minimal difference in tremclad, but nothing that would make it less scratch resistant. Their tech claims that it scratches off of the surface because it hasn't cured fully (month is more than enough he says), or the surface wasn't prepped properly (they say no more than 120grit. He also said that even if the paint wasn't compatible with the primer or paint underneath it, as long as it was sanded with 120 or less, then it should bond and not scrape off.

I sanded mine with 80-100-150 before paint and gave it a month to dry. There is no difference in hardness in 1 week vs 1 month from what I can tell.

I'll try the professional paint and see how that goes, although he said the onyl difference is how fast it dries.




That's too bad Jagd. I would think that sanding with nothing finer than 120 would leave a very poor looking surface on a car. The 1st pro. test area I did, I can put a scratch into it if I push hard, but can't scrape it off. That's been over a month drying.

There are still a couple more weeks of 70+ degree temps for it to cure, then I'll give it a final scratch test and go from there. As long as I'm doing a good job on the bodywork, I have to say it's crossed my mind to shell out the 500 and have Miracle or Maaco shoot it with a single stage and not have to worry about scratches or shine.

This morning while walking my dog, I met a neighbor of mine with a few mopars, and one was a 67 Satellite or Belvedere that he just had painted with a BC/CC job, around 5 grand with a fair amount of bodywork. It sure looked sweet, and the shine on that thing is making me reconsider rolling my car with Rustoleum- I know a 500 Maaco/Miracle job isn't going to look as good as BC/CC but it would be closer than rustoleum in my personal experience..



Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/27/06 09:59 PM

Quote:

Moper, I think your point is taken well. I agree with you somewhat on your reservations, but I think there are quite a few here that are taking up the roller in one manner or another here already, myself included. To be honest, I think many have undertaken this with thier own doubts, but for me personally, they were no greater doubts than had I picked up a spray gun and tried to paint a car with no experience. I can promise this, just as in spraying a car, there is definitely an "art" to using this method of painting, and for anyone to expect it to come out perfectly the first time around is foolish, same as if they spray a car for the first time. I'm actually glad to see so many "testing" this method out first, trying it on test panels, doors, and even as in my case, a refridgerator. I learned enough to believe it can be done, also enough to see that the results will look perfectly acceptable on a car. I, however, am not ready for that step yet 1. because the car is not ready, and 2. I need to practice more before I'M ready, at least to get the results I'd like to see on my car.
I would strongly suggest to anyone who's interested in this idea of roller painting to try it out, test if you will, before going gangbusters on a full car simply because I think if they don't, they will be dissapointed in the results. There is alot to learn, and seeing photos is just not enough. 69Charger is absolutely right when he says this is a great method for those who want a decent paint job on a budget. Period. Yes, you will get better results with a high quality spray job, but many of us just don't have that kind of budget to work with. JMHO




LOL...hahahaha...man.

Woke up at 7:30 AM this morning. Took my fully sanded cleaned up (the given name by this board) "Budda Civic" to my friends garage a few miles down the road.

Note: I never painted a test piece cuz i dont have a spare fender, trunk, door, metal piece, or a beer fridge to test on, Sad but true. Probably the main reason i didnt test on an object is cuz i'm dirt poor and dont wanna waste any ahahaha, and that i couldnt find anything: P

As of right now i have the first coat done completely on the car. And yes, i have run into 1 Big problem: BUBBLES! FREAKIN EVERYWHERE. LOL very tiny ones though i puff and they are gone. Other than that the paint; I got a tint of Metropolital which is liek charcoal/gray black. Very nice color, is really nice and smooth.

Now, I have a question. I have 4 cans of this paint. Only used about half for the first coat. I Opened every can and each one has bubbles in them. I Mix and i Mix and mix but they dont seem to wanna go away. THinning it with mineral spirits is just making them smaller but more of them. I know i have the right paint, but mad bubbles. I forgot to take my digital camera to his house, but i will be going tonight again for the second coat and will snap some pics of the paint and the car.


I HOPE IT TURNS OUT GOOD :P Wish me Luck. Will post pics tonight.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/27/06 10:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My white paint has had a month to cure and still scrapes off. There is no way this stuff will hold up to normal driving, so I'm going to have to sand it all off and try again.

Rustoleum says that there is no difference between California paints and other paints, they also say there is minimal difference in tremclad, but nothing that would make it less scratch resistant. Their tech claims that it scratches off of the surface because it hasn't cured fully (month is more than enough he says), or the surface wasn't prepped properly (they say no more than 120grit. He also said that even if the paint wasn't compatible with the primer or paint underneath it, as long as it was sanded with 120 or less, then it should bond and not scrape off.

I sanded mine with 80-100-150 before paint and gave it a month to dry. There is no difference in hardness in 1 week vs 1 month from what I can tell.

I'll try the professional paint and see how that goes, although he said the onyl difference is how fast it dries.




That's too bad Jagd. I would think that sanding with nothing finer than 120 would leave a very poor looking surface on a car. The 1st pro. test area I did, I can put a scratch into it if I push hard, but can't scrape it off. That's been over a month drying.

There are still a couple more weeks of 70+ degree temps for it to cure, then I'll give it a final scratch test and go from there. As long as I'm doing a good job on the bodywork, I have to say it's crossed my mind to shell out the 500 and have Miracle or Maaco shoot it with a single stage and not have to worry about scratches or shine.

This morning while walking my dog, I met a neighbor of mine with a few mopars, and one was a 67 Satellite or Belvedere that he just had painted with a BC/CC job, around 5 grand with a fair amount of bodywork. It sure looked sweet, and the shine on that thing is making me reconsider rolling my car with Rustoleum- I know a 500 Maaco/Miracle job isn't going to look as good as BC/CC but it would be closer than rustoleum in my personal experience..








Well, i dunno man, i'm too far into to stop. I'm gonna finish this and see how it turns out. If its bad then i'll just sand it down again and have MAACO do a worse job. Some maacos not all, but i think the one around my area is pretty lame. And i aint dishin out 1 GRAND plus for a paint job.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 12:57 AM

might be worth it to have a place like macco spray some clear over the roller job if shinyness is a concern.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 01:03 AM

Also, probibly dumb question but I can't find wetsand sandpaper below 600. Any recommendations where to get it, anyone used a multipurpose/non wood sandpaper (but not neccessary wetsand)?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 02:16 AM

Pep Boys, Kragen, or any auto parts store has sand paper in grits higher than 600 (all of the local ones here go as high as 3000).
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 02:54 AM

Quote:

LOL...hahahaha...man.

Woke up at 7:30 AM this morning. Took my fully sanded cleaned up (the given name by this board) "Budda Civic" to my friends garage a few miles down the road.

Note: I never painted a test piece cuz i dont have a spare fender, trunk, door, metal piece, or a beer fridge to test on, Sad but true. Probably the main reason i didnt test on an object is cuz i'm dirt poor and dont wanna waste any ahahaha, and that i couldnt find anything: P

As of right now i have the first coat done completely on the car. And yes, i have run into 1 Big problem: BUBBLES! FREAKIN EVERYWHERE. LOL very tiny ones though i puff and they are gone. Other than that the paint; I got a tint of Metropolital which is liek charcoal/gray black. Very nice color, is really nice and smooth.

Now, I have a question. I have 4 cans of this paint. Only used about half for the first coat. I Opened every can and each one has bubbles in them. I Mix and i Mix and mix but they dont seem to wanna go away. THinning it with mineral spirits is just making them smaller but more of them. I know i have the right paint, but mad bubbles. I forgot to take my digital camera to his house, but i will be going tonight again for the second coat and will snap some pics of the paint and the car.


I HOPE IT TURNS OUT GOOD :P Wish me Luck. Will post pics tonight.




Hehe, I hope you realize it wasn't meant to burst your...bubble (sorry). Actually, I think you already HAVE the perfect test piece! Let's be honest here, even if it only comes out looking like a quickie, cheapo paint job, it'll STILL look better than before! No?

Okay, so you've jumped in with both feet. Time to learn how to swim... fast! If you really would like to have it come out nice, concentrate on just one piece, the hood for example, or a fender, it doesn't really matter which. Don't worry about the rest for now, that's the beauty of this method, you don't HAVE to paint the entire car at once. If you can't hold off doing the whole car, take a break after the second coat. A serious break, cuz now is the time to make a big decision. After your done, and the paint is fully dry - give it a full day. Step back and really look at what you've done. You'll probably have, as 69Charger so eliquently described, a "WTF am I doing!" moment. That will pass. Once it has, take a closer look. You say you were having lots of bubbles, but when you gave em a good puff, they would disappear, right? My experience with this is that's okay. Not ideal, but manageable. the important thing is to get all those bubbles to pop BEFORE the paint gets "tacky". If not, forget about trying to re-roller it, you'll just pull up paint and it'll look worse. that's where concentrating on one panel at a time comes to your advantage, if you go too fast, and come back to correct mistakes after the paint is already starting to dry, you'll have a mess on your hands.

So, back to the break. Here's the big decision - how does it look now, and how good do you want the final finish to look? If you see mistakes; bubbles, runs, sagging, etc., NOW is the time to sand them out smooth, BEFORE you go any further. If you don't do it now, and decide after two more coats that it isn't smooth enough, it just means your going to need to do twice as much sanding to get it right. Take the time after the first two coats, you'll be thankful you did. If you end up completely removing the paint to get rid of the errors, better two coats than four. And don't be surprised if you do, cuz if you're mixing it right, the first two coats are gonna be thin. That's the whole idea. the fridge was originally white, and I painted it Sunrise Red. I felt that it wasn't really until after the 5th coat that I could really tell that the base color was completely covered. It may not take as many with the dark paint, only you can tell.

As for the bubbles in the paint can, did you have them tinit it for you, or was that a "stock" color? If they tinted it for you, did they use a shaker to mix it up? If so, you may have to let the paint sit for a few days, maybe even a week. I took 69Charger's advice and mixed each "batch" well; slow, steady "stirring", for nearly 20 minutes. As he said, once you think you've stirred it enough, stir it some more.

My experience was that you're better off OVER diluting with mineral spirits, rather than UNDER diluting (I did both). If you over dilute, the paint will have a greater tendency to run on you (nearly all my surfaces were vertical), but if you just keep gently rolling it, it will eventually set nicely. Don't over roll it, just enough so that it no longer wants to run on you. I actually found that with my over diluted batch, if I rollered horizontally, across the grain if you will, it helped stop the running quickly. The alternative of under-diluting creates much more serious problems; the paint will get "tacky" before it gets a chance to spread and lay down properly. If you try to correct this by re-rollering it will lift the paint and look like a mess. If you let it go as is (too thick) you'll get orange peel. Not a total bust, but it will just mean more sanding for you.

I'll stop here cuz I've already talked too much. Anyone else want to chime in with some words of advice or encouragement?

Nothing ventured, nothing gained - that's my attitude. Forget all the nay-sayers out there, they're a dime a dozen. ADVENTURE, my boy! The joy is in the journey, not the destination.
Posted By: cheapstreetdustr

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 02:56 AM

if you have bubbles you can put the paint (with lid on) in the refregerator over night.
then let it warm back up to room temp.
this should get the bubbles out of the liquid.
just dont paint it when its that cold..
let it get back up to room temp..on its own
cheap
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 03:54 AM

Thanks ricklandia for all that great advice. Well, i have jumped in but i'm not coming out until i can swim (which i already can :P) But heres the thing, i think the paint was too thick. Also there are no orange peels soo far, the paint is still a little sticky cuz it cold at night. And yea i didnt mix for 20 minutes though. IT is a "TINT" they mixed the base and then shake it in a SHAKER reallllllly fast and this was all over a week ago and the paint was sitting in my living room for a week so i think it should be setteled, just that i didnt stirr it too much and didnt make it thin enough therefore bubbles :S. Anyways, only have 1 coat done soo far and it doesnt look bad to me. I mean some spots look a little thicker than others but in person they look fine. Here are some pictures i snapped about a hour ago when i went to his house.

My original plan was to paint at 7:30AM in the morning and then come back at like 6:00PM and do another coat, but when i got there i realized i still had to clean the car more. And i didnt start painting till 1:00PM and finished at 3:00, which sucked. So i have wait till tommorow :S.

Oh and yes i do want a DECENT turnout and am not gonna stop. Sanding doesnt matter to me, i've sanded enough and a little more wont hurt.
Also i'll put the paint in the refrigirator.

PS: I've already had the "WTF AM I DOING" moment about 6 times LOL.









Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 04:42 AM

I've been observing this thread for some time now, and thought I might add a suggestion in regards to the problem w/ bubbles. It has been mentioned several times that the "thinner" the paint the better. Would this thinned-down paint be thin enough to pass through one of those cheapy paper 'strainers' that they hand out at the automotive paint stores? If the paint mixture was thin enough, could this not remove most if not all of the bubbles from having the paint mixed?

JEG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 05:07 AM

Quote:

I've been observing this thread for some time now, and thought I might add a suggestion in regards to the problem w/ bubbles. It has been mentioned several times that the "thinner" the paint the better. Would this thinned-down paint be thin enough to pass through one of those cheapy paper 'strainers' that they hand out at the automotive paint stores? If the paint mixture was thin enough, could this not remove most if not all of the bubbles from having the paint mixed?

JEG




What is this sheet called again? And can i get it from HOME DEPOT LOL
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 02:52 PM

Bakuryu,
I think if that's the extent of the bubbles you are seeing after you dilute with mineral spirits, I think you're okay. Mix a little longer and you'll see the number of bubbles decrease, but to be honest I never completely got rid of them, and had no problems. I believe 69Charger mentioned that if you still have a fair amount of bubbles once you've poured it in the tray, you can skim the surface to get rid of the excess, but honestly I never bothered. I found that instead of rolling out the paint from the roller as you would in traditional house painting (using the corregated section of the tray), I just rolled it in the deep section, pulled it out to let the excess drip off, then went right at it. It seemed as thought the more I was able to get on the surface immediately the better, spreading it out quickly so that I didn't have to roll too much to spread it out. Make sense?
More about the bubbles - it was my experience that you WILL still get bubbles when rolling it on with the proper dilution, even if you over-dilute, at least in the initial minutes of application. If the slight puff pops them, fine - as long as you try to get them all gone as quickly as possible - let the paint spread. After a couple of minutes, you can go back over any areas that still have the very tiny bubbles as "69" describes, but do it EVER so gently - just the weight of the roller. If it feels like it's trying to pull up the paint - STOP! You can fix it in sanding. This process of re-rollering to totally eliminate any tiny bubbles is definitely where the "art" comes in. I didn't really "get it" until the fourth coat, then BINGO - it all made sense to where I was able to repeat it consistantly.

It's a little hard to tell from the photos how the finish really is, that's a judgement call you're going to need to make. What makes you think it was too thick? You say you're not seeing any orange peel, so that's good. I'm willing to bet if that's the case that you're not too far off on the dilution. When the paint is completely dry (no more tacky feeling), run your hand over the surface nice and gently. Feel any rough spots? Feel any spots rougher than others? If so, I would take the time now to sand it out and correct the problem before you go on to the next coat, especially if you think it's too thick.Remember, the point of this is to put the paint on thin, so it's not going to cover up any underlaying flaws.

On a last not, I'm really interested to see your progress - KEEP the PHOTOS COMING!!! I have two gallons of the MASSTONE TINT BASE sitting in my garage - untinted as of yet, but I've been contemplating black. It's a bit of a scary thought as black shows EVERYTHING. BTW, when they tinted yours, did they mention any kind of special tint, or did they just use the standard tinting formulas? I asked the Home Depot "paint-guy" and he simply said that he could just punch in "rustoleum" and the tint system would know. I wasn't all convinced he wasn't just making it up as he went, but I guess I have little choice. Did they give you a selection of "rustoleum" colors to choose from, or did they just mix up the color from a swatch?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 03:30 PM

Ricklandia - excellent advise, seems like you really got a handle on it, i agree with everything you said.

some things that come to mind, never, ever, never mix and enamel on a shaker!!!! only stir, unless you want to make that vacuum table that was discussed pages ago, or you can hitch a ride on the space shuttle to take it into the vacuum of space!!!. also after mixing the paint in you pan, definetly skim the surface of the paint with a paper towel, that reduces the bubbles by half in my case. also don't introduce the roller until you have mixed the paint. and the reason why i don't clean the roller with mineral spirits is the bubbles, use a new one every time, they're cheap. also when you roller, try not to roller really fast, or start out rollering fast and then go over it about 10 times slow right after spreading out the paint, you have to practice and just find that "sweet spot", if you don't have a old trunk, door, or hood, then just do the hood to start with, alot eaiser to sand down the hood than the whole car!!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 04:32 PM

Wow, what an incredable thread. I linked over hear from another car forum site, probetalk. Decided to sign up to ask a couple of my own questions, post some pics when I get time. This thread is definitly working its way around the inet. I spent the whole day yesterday reading every single page. It was very informative. WTG Charge69, very creative.

I'm thinking about trying this in a couple weeks on a beater just to see how it turns out. I was wondering if anyone has tried the flexability test yet. How flexable is this paint? Will it chip off if a dent is put in, then pulled back out? How about random flexing, like *ex on the hood?
Exit, Rick, or Charger? This is the only reason I have for not trying it yet. I do remember Exit saying that was going to be part of the test along with the scratch and chip test, I believe.

Everyone keep up the good work. Keep the pictures coming.

BTW, I might have to take you up on the offer to come see the Charger.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 04:44 PM

no issues with flex for me, i've painted plastic bumpers, the hood on the charger flexes a bit when i wash it, and i've popped the front fender while working on the motor in and out leaning too hard on it, no issues, if anything it is alot better then factory paint, at least for me.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 04:45 PM

Our old mopars have sheet metal a bit more resistant to flexing than a Probe

In my limited experience, the final result has been on the soft side, so I don't think flex would be a problem.

More generally though, I'm signed off from the idea of using this on my dart at this point. I found some of the original enamel behind the rear bumper, and polished and waxed it, and when I looked into it head on, I could see a reflection (not mirrorlike, but a reflection). When I look head on into the test piece I've done with Rustoleum and Rustoleum pro,(under the same light conditions), after waxing I can barely see anything. It still looks nice from the side, but that's only part of what I'm looking for. This, plus the fact that I can put scratches in it with my fingernail, has pushed me over the edge. I need more of a shine. Miracle auto body, here I come. Best wishes to other rollers; I think I'll use the Rustoleum spray for touchups and door jambs though, but for my body I'm hanging up my roller.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 05:20 PM

“WTF am I doing?” This sounds like a good name for a club. I think I may have come across a WTF moment. Have you guys used PENETROL with Rustoleum? I came across it while I was at Home Depot shopping for stuff to paint my car with (I can’t believe I just said that.) Its web site states it’s a rust inhibitor, enhances penetration and adhesion, makes paint flow more smoothly, and reduces brush marks and leveling problems. So in the spirit of research and adventure I said, “WTF” and volunteered to use to the hood of my bug for an experiment.

PENETROL is about the same consistency as Italian dressing so I couldn’t quite mix it to the “water” consistency 69Charger recommended. The closest I could get was the “Malox” consistency Exit1965 mentioned. This resulted in a dilution of 40-60% (depending on the weather), even though the PENETROL instructions recommended a 10-40% dilution. I was in such a hurry to try it, I rushed through 69Charger’s instructions and got mixed up. When he mentioned having a roller in one hand and a foam brush in the other, I thought he meant to apply the paint mixture with a roller first then use a foam brush on the same area. As to how to apply it, I wasn’t quite sure, so I thought it might be like the application techniques used in the Coach Painting website-http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk/brush.html. So I first rollered in a horizontal then in a vertical motion, then brushed horizontally/vertically with the foam brush, then again lightly with the foam brush first horizontally then vertically to prevent the paint from furrowing.

When I first applied it, there were the bubbles left behind from the roller trail, but they would disappear on their own, form miniscule orange peels then settle. I went for the maximum drying time (24 hours.) When it did dry, there were no bubbles or orange peel, just the microscopic trails left by the brush. I was impressed with the general smoothness and gloss.

Once again I mixed up 69Charger’s instructions and sanded not after the 2nd coat, but after the 1st coat (600 grit.) I sanded after the 2nd coat too, but the finish was so smooth, I just jumped straight to 1000 grit. When the 3rd coat dried , it looked good enough to polish right there.

As with any paint technique, I know you need a good surface to begin with. So I applied a primer/sealer first, then sanded it as smooth as I could. Another reason why I used the primer was because I didn’t want to risk the adhesion problems others had with Rustoleum. I may have not needed it though. I noticed that a drop of the Rustoleum-Penetrol mixture which had fallen on a non-primered area, passed the scratch test after 3 days.

I apologize to 69 Charger for f***ing up his instructions, but in my mess-up I think I’ve stumbled across a new, barely explored branch to this budget painting thread. Oh no…not another thread!

Attached File
2510606-rustbug.bmp  (2735 downloads)
Posted By: BSharp

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 07:55 PM

That looks awesome, poorbugr! So is the third picture with or without polishing? Here's a page from the Penetrol web site.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 08:03 PM

Hey poorbug, the paint looks great!
So, did you use any mineral spirits at all?
My bug is waiting for new paint
Please keep as updated with pictures.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 08:22 PM

i just read about the penetrol stuff, funny about the spontanious combustion!!!!! that actually made me laugh out loud, like those drug commeritals on tv, "to ellimanate headaches, try headsil, WARNING: sideaffects may include, anal bleeding, anal parasites, severe vommiting and diareha (at the same time!!!), puss leaking from all orifices, severe baldness, hemmoriods, PMS sysmptoms in MEN!!!, impotence (take hardsil to correct!!!), worm like animal residing in you ear cannals, and rectum, uncontorable outbursts of yelling profanities (like turrets syndrome!!!)..................

i'd rather just have the headache!!!!

nice work poorbug, interesting product, tell us more about your process........
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 08:27 PM

Poorbug, do you have a head-on picture of it, e.g. how does it shine looking at it flat? Does the surface show scratches?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 08:45 PM

Quote:

Poorbug, do you have a head-on picture of it, e.g. how does it shine looking at it flat? Does the surface show scratches?




i thought u were "hanging up the roller"????

i'd rather paint my car for $50 and get a real paint job for $5000 when i can afford it over a cheap macco crappy paint job. i had my money on you for having the first sucess story.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 08:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Poorbug, do you have a head-on picture of it, e.g. how does it shine looking at it flat? Does the surface show scratches?




i thought u were "hanging up the roller"????

i'd rather paint my car for $50 and get a real paint job for $5000 when i can afford it over a cheap macco crappy paint job. i had my money on you for having the first sucess story.




I am hanging up the roller. I said Maaco/miracle, but I would only really consider Miracle.. they do a lot of old cars, they did my dad's 65 Coronet 500 and it turned out nice. Their cheap job I can get for about $500 and do the jambs myself with Rusto professional.

Still I want to see if there's a way to pull this rustoleum thing off. Even with that product to make it flow better, I don't see how the overall gloss would be any better. The gloss on my test areas looked OK till I wetsanded, but if I had not wetsanded there would have been lots of tiny surface imperfections.

Whether or not I paint my car with a roller to me doesnt matter as much as this topic helped get me off my can and start spending a lot of time prepping for paint. I figure I have done the work and determined that roller painting doesn't result in the look I want for my car, so that's that. Either way there will be another shiney Mopar on the road.



Posted By: DDDDDD

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 08:57 PM

Hi, i have been reading this for the past couple of MONTHS and i wanna do it. i am 16 and dont have much $$$$ but i do have a 72 charger that has been outside its whole life and is in real bad need of a paint job. I will take the engine and everything (interior, etc) out and then paint it. SO can someone filter through this post and tell me exactly what i need to do to get the best possible job done, keep in mind it needs to b sanded and primed, so i would need u guys to tell me how to do that too. I can buy ne tools i need for this job, just tell me what to do. I wanna paint the whole car, in the engine bay and trunk too. What all do i need to do, paint numbers/brands/how to mix it all, and places to get all this stuff would be good. I live in florida. Also i kinda like what i read abourt the penetrol. i have no knowledge about grits of paper and stuff but i am willing to learn. o, and i want the color to be like a tourch/viper red, so what color to use?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 09:19 PM

DDDDDDD - i would suggest geting a pot of coffee on, read thru all the posts and take notes, all your questions and future questions are answered somewhere. i know it's alot to read, but trust me, you'll pick up alot more than if we were to give you a 1-10 step process.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 10:12 PM

It's probably going to need body work, so get yourself some hand blocks, a 17.5" long board, several packs of 80 grit 3m long sandpaper, some 180, fiberglass resin, a couple gallons of bondo, and a gallon of acetone to clean your bondo application tools.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/28/06 10:57 PM

Greetings fellow Researchers!
Thanks for the feedback. My Rustoleum mixtures didn’t include mineral spirits; I just used the Penetrol. The 3rd picture shows how the hood looked after it dried; no polish at all. I could see the reflection of my butt-ugly face head on, but I could also see minute dust specks and tiny brush marks. I’ll try to get a picture after I put on the final coat with polish. But that may be awhile too. I'm concerned that the Coach Painting site recommends polishing after 7 months of hardening! So I guess I'll have to try polishing at different stages. I’m convinced that Rustoleum is inferior to Tremclad, so we have to be a little more creative in order to get the same results as 69Charger got.
I’m just as new to this Penetrol stuff as you guys are. It’s not time tested like 69Charger’s. After I applied the mixture and let it dry I went, “Whoa, WTF just happened? I gotta show this to the others.” Since we’re all experimenting here, I just felt I had to share my observations. Others who are just about to jump in may be able to add to or enhance our findings. It’s all part of the “adventure “(as Ricklandia put it) we’re on. That's what's so freakin' cool about this thread!

And Exit1965, I can understand your thoughts about wanting to hang up your rollers. Honestly, you Mopar guys are driving works of art. They SHOULD be painted with high end paint jobs. My bug isn’t even worth half of a cheapy Earl Sheib/Maaco job, so 69Charger’s roller technique is perfect for me. Best of luck amigos!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/29/06 12:37 AM

Ok guys, i got the second coat done and well not really alot less bubbles this time either but i'm completely out of breath Yea i painted each pannel as if it were the final LOL but IT TURNED OUT NICE! Both of these 2 coats were done with 1 CAN which is 1QUART. The 3rd and 4th coat will be done with the refrigirated can which is back to room temperature, i dunno if it has any bubbles in it yet, i havent opened it (HOpefully not).

Also i'm considering about doing the 3rd 4th coat with this PENETROL mixture, think i should? Will it stick to the RUSTOLEUM-MINERALSPIRIT mixture? I dunno, So far the paint looks pretty shiny under a garage light, havent taken it out in the sun yet. Tommorow i'm taking the car out and into another garage, a closer friends garage where i have more room and lighting. Here are the pics.

I LIKE HOW THE SECOND COAT HAS GONE ON !! ANd this only after second coat, a little to none bubbles.







Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/29/06 03:15 AM

Hey guys, this is something that we should consider for hard to reach places. It has 32 oz capacity and
Use ordinary air from any air source, including hand pumps. It can be found in Harbor Freight for less than $10

Attached picture 2512078-01102.gif
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/29/06 03:34 AM

Quote:

Hey guys, this is something that we should consider for hard to reach places. It has 32 oz capacity and
Use ordinary air from any air source, including hand pumps. It can be found in Harbor Freight for less than $10




Huh? Explain plz, whats it called i cant read that picture. How to use this thing.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/29/06 06:25 AM

ok i went to homedepot and asked if they would tint tremclad and they refused...anyone else have the same problem? anyone know of a place else where that would do it (in toronto) or could u just get the white gloss and mix paint in there to get a desired color? =\ thanks
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/29/06 08:12 AM

Quote:

ok i went to homedepot and asked if they would tint tremclad and they refused...anyone else have the same problem? anyone know of a place else where that would do it (in toronto) or could u just get the white gloss and mix paint in there to get a desired color? =\ thanks




The home depot here refused to tint it for me also. I tried painting a fender 2 weeks ago but its still is scratchable. Not with the fingernail so much but a rock hitting it on the highway will chip it for sure. Regardless I will paint the whole car since it's so ugly but hopefully it gets a lot harder.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/29/06 02:10 PM

Quote:

i just read about the penetrol stuff, funny about the spontanious combustion!!!!! that actually made me laugh out loud, like those drug commeritals on tv, "to ellimanate headaches, try headsil, WARNING: sideaffects may include, anal bleeding, anal parasites, severe vommiting and diareha (at the same time!!!), puss leaking from all orifices, severe baldness, hemmoriods, PMS sysmptoms in MEN!!!, impotence (take hardsil to correct!!!), worm like animal residing in you ear cannals, and rectum, uncontorable outbursts of yelling profanities (like turrets syndrome!!!)..................

i'd rather just have the headache!!!!





I'm very interested in your results poorbug. It appears that you've achieved shine comparable to (dare I say superior to) what Charger ended up with. Keep the pics coming and don't down the people's car.
The shine and reflection almost makes me skeptical...like you went to a random new factory paint job and said "look what I did"! With the popularity of this thread, I could see someone doing that to mock us.
Keep the pix coming!!
Posted By: moper

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/29/06 02:15 PM



Budda's 2nd coat seems to be coming better. DOnt forget the wheels..
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/29/06 02:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

i just read about the penetrol stuff, funny about the spontanious combustion!!!!! that actually made me laugh out loud, like those drug commeritals on tv, "to ellimanate headaches, try headsil, WARNING: sideaffects may include, anal bleeding, anal parasites, severe vommiting and diareha (at the same time!!!), puss leaking from all orifices, severe baldness, hemmoriods, PMS sysmptoms in MEN!!!, impotence (take hardsil to correct!!!), worm like animal residing in you ear cannals, and rectum, uncontorable outbursts of yelling profanities (like turrets syndrome!!!)..................

i'd rather just have the headache!!!!





I'm very interested in your results poorbug. It appears that you've achieved shine comparable to (dare I say superior to) what Charger ended up with. Keep the pics coming and don't down the people's car.
The shine and reflection almost makes me skeptical...like you went to a random new factory paint job and said "look what I did"! With the popularity of this thread, I could see someone doing that to mock us.
Keep the pix coming!!




Something about the shine that I've already mentioned, and I can only guess will be the case on poorbugs car too-after wetsanding, most of that gloss will go away. SOME of the gloss will be restored with polishing/waxing. But in my experience the gloss from anything other than a steep angle leaves much to be desired. The thing is-- you have to wetsand, or if you get within a few feet of it, you'll see all kind of surface imperfections that would have come out with wetsanding.

Way far back in this thread, there was someone who mentioned that after a standard application of rustoleum, the shine went away in (can't remember) weeks or months. So even if you COULD apply a perfect final coat that didn't require wetsanding, it may still very well lose that shine. Time will tell as more people experiment with this stuff..

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/29/06 02:18 PM

Whoah, 22 Pages!! We're drinking the Rustoleum Kool-Aid...
Quote:

Ok guys, i got the second coat done and well not really alot less bubbles this time either but i'm completely out of breath Yea i painted each pannel as if it were the final LOL but IT TURNED OUT NICE! Both of these 2 coats were done with 1 CAN which is 1QUART. The 3rd and 4th coat will be done with the refrigirated can which is back to room temperature, i dunno if it has any bubbles in it yet, i havent opened it (HOpefully not).

Also i'm considering about doing the 3rd 4th coat with this PENETROL mixture, think i should? Will it stick to the RUSTOLEUM-MINERALSPIRIT mixture? I dunno, So far the paint looks pretty shiny under a garage light, havent taken it out in the sun yet. Tommorow i'm taking the car out and into another garage, a closer friends garage where i have more room and lighting. Here are the pics.

I LIKE HOW THE SECOND COAT HAS GONE ON !! ANd this only after second coat, a little to none bubbles.




Nice work...there's a lot to be said about jumping in feet first and painting the whole bit like you're doing. The paint looks a little thick from what I can tell, but hey, you've already applied more than I have in my testing.
Keep us posted... pictures like "buddha civic", "beer fridge", "poorbug's penetrol", and exit's tests help validate this method. Nice work guys!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 02:51 AM

Quote:

i just read about the penetrol stuff, funny about the spontanious combustion!!!!! that actually made me laugh out loud...




It might be funny, but I can assure you it's a real hazard, I've seen it happen. My wife and I were refinishing some old wood furniture, and I had a stain soaked rag that was left out in the sun. I smelt something funny, turned around and the rag was smoldering - as in SMOKE coming from it! Sure enough, it was on the verge of igniting, it was hot to the touch and I had to dowse it with water to put it out. A word to the wise, dont leave that "stuff" out in the sun, and as they recommend, dispose of it in a bucket of water!

Poorbugr's photos are definitely compelling, enough to warrent a side by side test IMO. Next time I'm at the "Depot", I'm definitely gonna take a look to see if they have any, to compare it with using mineral spirits. Poorbugr, just outta curiousity - what did you pay for the Penetrol?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 04:03 AM

Here are some day shots from today. Mayb they'll do more justice.
NOTE: I havent wetsanded yet, and by the way. This has only been 24 HOURS AND THE PAINT IT SCRATCH PROOF, LITERALLY, i've been trying to scratch it with some strength with no scratch. I think i might b onto something.
Just gotta get the damn bubbles out and get the right shine.



Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 04:37 AM

Quote:

ok i went to homedepot and asked if they would tint tremclad and they refused...anyone else have the same problem? anyone know of a place else where that would do it (in toronto) or could u just get the white gloss and mix paint in there to get a desired color? =\ thanks




Go to Canadian Tire, they now have tintable base. You have around 80 colors to choose from. The one here in Victoria didn't know what I was talking about untill I walked up to the counter with a gallon of the base and said I want this color.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 12:26 PM

Bakuryu - if you think of it, take a close up photo of the bubbles. It's kinda hard to tell from the daytime shots whether it's bubbles or something else stuck to the paint. Otherwise, I think it's coming along nicely. Be forewarned before you get to the final stage though... when you do the final wetsanding, use the finest grade paper you can find, like 2000, to get the surface as smooth as possible before you begin buffing it out. The buffing process is gonna take lots of time, LOTS of time if you're using an ordinary cheapo orbital waxer/buffer. It does work, but it's gonna make the paint process feel like it was absolutely rapid fire in comparison.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 12:57 PM

New here, like a lot of you guys, i heard of this page from another msg board. i have a 93 diamante and it had real bad

case of "sunburn" thnx to the fla sun. I want to paint the whole car gloss black, like 69charger black beetle.

just a couple of questions before i start.

What are the exact materials I can get from Home Depot?


As for mixing mineral spirits and the paint each day for coating.

would it be better if you..

take 1 container for the whole project, dump all the paint you need in it, and keep adding miniral spirits each time you

use it?

or

take 1 container, dump the amount of paint for 2 coats and add mineral spirts in it for the time you going to use it for.

I already have the paint, but i need to know what brushes i should buy
(please list in detail)

What i gather from this thread the steps seem to be

Prep the vehicle
- do i wetsand the car first?

- wash car (soap and water)

- get cloth and soak it in mineral spirts and apply all over the areas you are going to paint

- roll on paint
--------do I let it dry after painting or start wetsanding after i finish painting?
-------- what grit do i use for the whole project?
-------- how much pressure should i be using for wetsanding?

In short, can anyone put step by step instructions please?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 03:05 PM

Quote:


In short, can anyone put step by step instructions please?




someone has put it into instructions, read this :

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...93ec07bbb2de5a6

hope that helps, good luck
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 04:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:


In short, can anyone put step by step instructions please?




someone has put it into instructions, read this :

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...93ec07bbb2de5a6

hope that helps, good luck





I need help :S, i dont think i'm doing it right. First two coats i got alot of bubbles and now that its dry it doesnt look too bad. BUt i just started wetsanding and boy its turning out DISGUSTING! Paint is thinning and i can see the original red/body. I'm slightly wetting the 600grit sandpaper and well with not too much pressure with a block, in a circular motion sanding it. Its coming smooth but it has like small circles (Not holes but like white circles) all over the body which other wise shines up when i whipe it with a mineral-spirited rag. Now i have spots on the car where the paint wasnt thick enough back to its original color which was the sanded down red of the buddha civic.

Should i keep going with the wetsanding cuz i only did the driver side.

HERE are some pics, HELP! I'm also considering just painting the car white cuz i have a large gallon of the professional white color. ARGHHH this is aggrivating.







Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 04:24 PM

you have alot of orange peel, probally from applying the paint on too thick, resist the urge to apply thick coats, you should only see full coverage to where you can't see the original color until you finish the 3rd or 4th coat. i suggest you sand it until it's totally smooth, wetsand using 400 to make it go faster, when it's smooth like silk, it will look flat, like velvet, then do your next coat, really thin coats, make the paint thin, mix it alot, skim the paint in the tray with a towel paper to get rid of bubbles. i see you still have dents in your pics, you maybe should have fixed them before you painted as they will look like a eyesore when youre all done. unless your car is just a beater??????
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 04:32 PM

Quote:

you have alot of orange peel, probally from applying the paint on too thick, resist the urge to apply thick coats, you should only see full coverage to where you can't see the original color until you finish the 3rd or 4th coat. i suggest you sand it until it's totally smooth, wetsand using 400 to make it go faster, when it's smooth like silk, it will look flat, like velvet, then do your next coat, really thin coats, make the paint thin, mix it alot, skim the paint in the tray with a towel paper to get rid of bubbles. i see you still have dents in your pics, you maybe should have fixed them before you painted as they will look like a eyesore when youre all done. unless your car is just a beater??????




YEa i dont care bout the dent, i tried pulling it out with like a small popout things, but since it soo close to the molding it wouldn't stick correctly and pull so i said F'it lol. It is somewhat a beater, hence i'm trying this whole crazy method on this car lol. those small circle white spots r orange peels? LOL i thought orange peels would look like, well orange hahahaahaha, if ur talking about the red spots thats just the paint underneath. Also one of the cans i refrigirated, ijust opened it and it has 0 BUBBLES IN IT!! So hopefully the next coats wont have any bubbles?

Another question charger, How did you exactly wetsand? AM i doing it correct?

Another question lol, Can i wetsand the car with the palm sander so its goes faster? And what happenes to the spots that are too thin right now and will pretty much fade to the original color. It will look like cow spots again. Then wont the next coats be too thin there compared to the others?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 04:46 PM

Quote:



YEa i dont care bout the dent, i tried pulling it out with like a small popout things, but since it soo close to the molding it wouldn't stick correctly and pull so i said F'it lol. It is somewhat a beater, hence i'm trying this whole crazy method on this car lol. those small circle white spots r orange peels? LOL i thought orange peels would look like, well orange hahahaahaha, if ur talking about the red spots thats just the paint underneath. Also one of the cans i refrigirated, ijust opened it and it has 0 BUBBLES IN IT!! So hopefully the next coats wont have any bubbles?

Another question charger, How did you exactly wetsand? AM i doing it correct?

Another question lol, Can i wetsand the car with the palm sander so its goes faster? And what happenes to the spots that are too thin right now and will pretty much fade to the original color. It will look like cow spots again. Then wont the next coats be too thin there compared to the others?




take the sand paper, wet in a bucket of water, get a spray bottle, fill it with water, spray the area, sand, add water, and rinse the paper often, i'd do it by hand, use 400 or so to speed it up, you'll probally burn out a palmsander getting it wet, and maybe a nice shock!!!. don't use a block, just by hand. and the orange peel is refering to the texture of the peel, not the color, just keep sanding, until smooth, and it all looks flat like velvet, then continue painting, but this is why i allways said, expirement FIRST, on just the hood, so you don't create more work for yourself.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 05:07 PM

could u do this on carbon fiber? like say i had a carbon fiber hood and i wanted to paint it but leaving a stripe in the middle (of carbon fiber) but like would i have to sand the clear coats off first or wah?
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 05:13 PM

Looks like you are on the right track,

From the picture showing the area just above the side window, it looks like finger marks in the sanding pattern.

MAKE SURE YOU USE A SANDING BLOCK! Use the rubber sanding blocks that can be found at Wal Mart. You can usually find pre cut paper in 1000 and 2000 grit there too. I usually pick mine up in the spray paint section. I have at 2 different Wal Marts.

For the areas that are too round to use the sanding block, use a sponge. I use some small sponges that I buy at the auto paint store. They are about the same size as a sanding block but only a 1/4 “ thick. I fold the paper over the ends then fold it in half. That way it holds my paper and I can bend it around odd shapes. The whole reason for this is the flatter you can get the wet sanding the better it will come out. If you have groves from your fingers on the back side of the paper, it will show up as ripples even after you buff it.

I would be using a softer grit of paper. I prefer to use 1000, then 2000 then buff. For yours since you still have more coats of paint to go, I would use the 600, then re-coat it, then go to the 1000, and finally 2000 and buff.

Your goal at this point is to get the orange peel out of it. That can only be done by water sanding and taking your time. You want it to come out dull with no shiny spots. Each little shiny spot is a low spot. Once those low spots are out, you will re-apply your paint and it will be MUCH flatter, and easier to get a good shine when buffing.

I never use anything rougher than 1000 on a final coat. It would be too hard to buff it out. I try to use the 2000 for all of it, but if the orange peel is too bad, I use 1000 then the 2000 then buff.

For those that don’t thing they can get the full shine back after wet sanding, they probably used paper that was too rough.

Keep in mind I spray automotive finishes on my cars, but the enamel you guys are using will shine as good as any enamel if it is buffed properly. It took me a while to learn to use a buffer correctly, but now my results are fantastic! I use McGuire’s Diamond Cut to get the water sanding paper marks out, and then follow up with some of the hand glaze.

Polishing with a buffer is the same as sanding; you are just using liquid for the abrasive. Compounds come in different “Grits” as well. I always use foam pads on my buffer. I also use a different pad for different compounds. I NEVER reuse a pad with a different “Grit” compound.

OH and use Straight strokes not circles while wet sanding.

-Dave
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 05:14 PM

This is with my base clear paint after wet sanding with 2000 grit and a rubber block. I had a LOT of orange peel on the deck lid, and wet sanded it out.

-Dave



Attached picture 2515556-20050408.jpg
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 05:16 PM

This is the end result after buffing with the Diamond cut and a foam pad. I then followed it up with a hand galze. I painted this car in my garage with a base clear paint system. I have been painting cars since I was 16, so I already had lots of equipment. I did spend about $1k for materials and lots of hours of labor.

The point I am trying to make is with your roll on method, you can get good results! You have to make sure your surface prep is good, and take your time. Getting it thin enough to be able to work it without the bubbles will save you lots of time later during the wet sanding. Once you have a good coat of paint on it then wet sand with fine paper and buff the heck out of it. You WILL get a great shine.

-Dave



Attached picture 2515560-20050731GTS024.jpg
Posted By: moper

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 05:27 PM

The best wet sanding results will come from not using your fiongers..Always use a soft block..I use foam roll bar padding for concave curved contours and a std rubber sanding block for flat panels. Larger convex curves I use a peice of havey rubbr, slit so it conforms easy to the body as you move it. Lots of water..a few drops of dishwashing soap in it will help a lot. Replace the paper often, and go like they said, until all you see is flat grey. Dont worry about the color coming thru just yet..This method is labor intensive, you'll be sanding a rolling a lot from what I have read. I usually wet sand primer, then spray all the coats of color..then wet sand again, do any graphics, then spray clear, wet sand that, and buff. So even doing it "the old fashioned way " takes a bit of effort. Probably what drives all the body men to be criminals..

Almost forgot..If you drop you paper, block, or sponge (to dribble the water over the surface...), dont rinse it off in the bucket with your sanding water..Sounds stupid, but you'll end up sanding with gravel from the pavement if you dont be careful...
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 05:57 PM

Quote:

You WILL get a great shine.

-Dave






Ok, I've already got a mostly done test area. You said above that the grit I used was too rough and that took a lot of the shine away.. it was 1500 grit.

So- if I wipe off the polish and wax I put on it, get 2000 grit and wetsand, then buff, it should shine eh?

I'm willing to give it a shot, it will not take much more work on that little area I'm using if you think it's got a chance of making it shine at anything other than an angle - it does that fine:

Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 06:02 PM

Dont wet sand it again. You already have a shine started. What you need to do is buff it more. Use a finer grit of compound. Or even a swirl mark remover. The thing that takes away the sine is micro scratches in the finsh. Use a finer grit to remove those scratches.

-Dave
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 06:05 PM

Dave, where can I get this Diamond Cut stuff?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 06:10 PM

Quote:

Dont wet sand it again. You already have a shine started. What you need to do is buff it more. Use a finer grit of compound. Or even a swirl mark remover. The thing that takes away the sine is micro scratches in the finsh. Use a finer grit to remove those scratches.

-Dave




Yes, when I look at it head on I can see those tiny scratches you talk about. Perhaps I'll get my roller off the place I hung it up from.

I'll try this tonight if I can get my hands on those fine compounds you talk about. I assume this stuff could be applied by hand, right? I might want to try it by hand on this small area to see if it works, then if I need to do a large surface I can practice with the random orbital machine.
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 06:13 PM

I just ordered a case of Rustoleum Stop Rust Enamal protective paint. (It is ordered by the case in 4 - 1QT cans. Or spray or 1/2 pints)
Home Depot, at least here, can order other colors besided what they carry in stock. I wanted Harbor Blue since it is identical to the factory B1 blue on the Duster now (mostly). I didn't want to have it mixed in store because of the bubbles. Also, I don't know if the dyes they add would affect the paint composition negatively.
I didn't see any Penetrol product though. Poorbugr, did you pick yours up at Home Depot? I'd like to try the Penetrol method if that is really the difference that gives it the adhesion and deep gloss.

Here is the company website for Penetrol (and Floetrol)
http://www.flood.com/Flood/Products/Exterior/PaintAdditives/
Is this the product you used? it appears to be made for thinning oil-based house paint.
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 07:19 PM

Quote:

Dave, where can I get this Diamond Cut stuff?




I bought some at a body shop supply house. They make different kinds. The one in my picture is for machine buffing. I do know there are some for hand, but you do need a machine to get it right. Use a Foam pad!

I picked up my latest buffer at car quest for under $50.00 and have used it a lot. My last one cost me $10.00 from a pawn shop, and it lasted me 10 years lol.

Most of the Mcguiars polishes are availible at any AutoZone type store. Buy a small bottle. They have easy to read gauges on the lable to tell you how agressive the grit is. The swirl mark remover type polishes are VERY good at hiding small swirl marks and scratches, but most require a machine to apply.

Your sample is almost there, a little more work with the right type of compound and the shine will get there.

-Dave
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 08:14 PM

This thread is soooo cool!! The advise and observations you guys share is fantastic. No wonder this thread is so popular.

I got the Penetrol from Home Depot. Sometimes I found it by the paint equipment, sometimes by the mineral spirits. If you can’t find it, get help from an employee- tell them you’re looking for stuff to “paint your car with.” The expression on their face should be worth the $9 price. The Flood web site you pointed out also has a Store Locator.

I really enjoy this technique. Sanding helps me get rid of the head aches I get from work.(My buddies tell me sanding GIVES them headaches.) I don’t know, something about focusing on “smoothing the rough spots” seems to relax me. When I start painting with the brush, and using the Coach Painting technique (picture an airplane landing then taking off) that’s also relaxing, similar to those Zen dudes who smooth out rock gardens into river patterns. In honor of 69Chargeryeehaa, I’ve dubbed the effect, “Yeehaa Yoga.” But then again… it could be from sniffing that Penetrol. Like Ricklandia says, be careful with that stuff guys!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 09:02 PM

Poorbugr- it looks like from your pic that the 1st coat completely covered the area, is that right? Did you take the pictures before or after wetsanding?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 10:34 PM

This is my 4th coat. Rusteolum professional with mineral spirits. Not sanded yet
I don't have a garage, so I am painting outside. To avoid stuff stick to the paint, I usually paint when is hot. At the same time this makes the thinner to evaporate to fast and there is same roller marks.

Attached picture 2516274-DSC_0076.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 10:38 PM

Another picture

Somebody could tell me how to put my pictures in here?

Thanks

Attached picture 2516279-DSC_0084.JPG
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/30/06 10:58 PM

Quote:

Another picture

Somebody could tell me how to put my pictures in here?

Thanks




that doesn't look too bad! oh and that picture is way too big to put into the post where you can see it. What you could do is shrink the picture or crop it, then click on your attachment, copy the URL of the image, then edit your post and put the URL of your image with [ img ] at the front (minus the spaces) and [ /img ] at the back (minus the spaces).
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 01:12 AM

Found some Penetrol at the local Home Depot, they had plenty. Probably won't get a chance to work with it for a few weeks though.

Gotta strip off some decals from the mower, anyone got any suggestions? I took off the dried and cracked vinyl wood panel from a Jeep Wagoneer once, used a hair dryer to soften it, then just peeled little by little. Took me FOREVER!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 01:24 AM

Ok, so i have the get alllll the white circles out? Even though they arent bumpy? I had some bumpy circles but those were bubbles that dried up and i got rid of them.

I'm wetsanding with fingers and well now i see it isnt working very well. The bLock is really small and takes forever!! LOL. I guess i'm gonna have to suck it up and scrub hahaha.

PS: Exit1965 Good to see you back in the game This stuff isnt that bad lol, i'm in such a big mess but i'm gonna keep going. GL To u too
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 03:00 AM

I tried what GTSDave suggested, and the results are encouraging-



If you look close, you can see the reflection of the grinder case. In case it doesn't show well in the pic, there is a much nicer reflection on the right side. The right side was done with Meguiars swirl remover 2.0 then the #7 glaze polish. I used a marker to show the area, and the line was taped when I was doing the polishing so the sides were totally separate. I started applying the swirl remover with my polisher, but then the !@#$* foam bonnet came off, and it was a pain to get it partially on anyways, so I did the whole area again by hand a couple times.

The left side I treated with only the #7 glaze, so the difference is the swirl remover.

Staring into it, I can see my mug staring back now, which I couldn't on the microscratchy side. I bet it would be even better if I had used the machine the whole time or used a more aggressive scratch remover like Dave did. I will do it again when I've got the bonnet all the way on. It does look like most of the swirl marks are gone now, but there are other tiny imperfections..not sure what from, probably there all along.

If it's sunny tomorrow I'll haul it into the sun for some pictures compared to the left side.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 04:45 AM

Quote:

I tried what GTSDave suggested, and the results are encouraging-



If you look close, you can see the reflection of the grinder case. In case it doesn't show well in the pic, there is a much nicer reflection on the right side. The right side was done with Meguiars swirl remover 2.0 then the #7 glaze polish. I used a marker to show the area, and the line was taped when I was doing the polishing so the sides were totally separate. I started applying the swirl remover with my polisher, but then the !@#$* foam bonnet came off, and it was a pain to get it partially on anyways, so I did the whole area again by hand a couple times.

The left side I treated with only the #7 glaze, so the difference is the swirl remover.

Staring into it, I can see my mug staring back now, which I couldn't on the microscratchy side. I bet it would be even better if I had used the machine the whole time or used a more aggressive scratch remover like Dave did. I will do it again when I've got the bonnet all the way on. It does look like most of the swirl marks are gone now, but there are other tiny imperfections..not sure what from, probably there all along.

If it's sunny tomorrow I'll haul it into the sun for some pictures compared to the left side.






Nice dude, that looks nice! Keep going
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 06:33 AM

Now that a lot of the swirls are gone, I'm seeing a bunch of other scratches below which must have been from using too rough a grit for final sanding. I used max of 180 over it.. what grit should I use on the surface before paint then?

And if I'm doing a long bondo area, do I need to get a long sheet of finer grit paper to keep it flat?
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 12:07 PM

I usually use 320 for my final prep. For Bondo, I use a long board with 36 to get it straight, the I go to 80 with the long board, and finally 120 long board before prime. After the prime I will use the 320 to make sure the primer is flat, then wipe, and paint. The key is to make sure your surface prep is good.

If I am using gray primer, I mist a darker color primer over the panel. Usually black, sandable primer. I then go back over it with my 320 ALWAYS use a sanding block. You will see the black primer stay in the low spots. It also will show you scratches in your pimer/bondo.

I haven’t updated my web site in a long time. I crashed a hard drive and didn't re-install my software properly. I will try to work on it in the next week. I had lots of pictures of the bodywork I did with my GTS. Once I do I will post a message to check it out. I don’t have lots of $$$ to spend on my cars so most of my bodywork I did the cheap way. Using old tools I had and a few new ones. I took lots of pictures, and did it all in my garage.

Keep practicing and you will get your own technique down. Every person that does body work will tell you a slightly different method they use. Once you have done enough of it yourself, you will find what works best for you.

I always keep an open mind, and find that I pick up little tips all the time that help make it easier for me to get better and better. Once you get your own technique down you will see that you will be able to get it done much faster, and with better results.

I don’t paint cars for a living. I was a mechanic, then electronic tech in the Air Force. I got into painting my own cars back in High School after getting prices to have one of my old cars painted. I know now that the prices were because of all the labor involved. But I have time, and I am willing to do my own labor, so I just had to teach myself how to do it. You guys are on the right track, and with practice and patience you will get great results.

-Dave
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 12:38 PM

I heard on some show that its better to sand surfaces in "lines" not swirls or circles..

if true, i guess that could be a tip

Question:

I live on a dirt road, after i finish painting\waxing my car, is it ok to drive it on the dirt road afterwards?
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 02:01 PM

M2001,

I should have mentioned that. I wet sand in straight lines. I do change the direction but always in a straight line.
--------||||||||||---------|||||||||

-Dave
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 02:17 PM

Quote:

I tried what GTSDave suggested, and the results are encouraging-
......
If it's sunny tomorrow I'll haul it into the sun for some pictures compared to the left side.






Exit1965,
Is that finish using Rustoleum and mineral spirits? Looks good. I'm still debating whether to try Penetrol or use mineral spirits.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 03:31 PM

Quote:



Exit1965,
Is that finish using Rustoleum and mineral spirits? Looks good. I'm still debating whether to try Penetrol or use mineral spirits.




It's with mineral spirits. I don't know about Penetrol, it would be nice to see how well it holds up.

Im going to visit local Miracle auto body today to see the competition and how they do single stage metallics .. I'm kind of leaning towards a light silver metallic now, after seeing mmissle's macomb missle..
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/2512587-100_0242.JPG

The missle isn't single stage, but

Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 03:31 PM

keep in mind guys that basically all of you trying this method have no previous painting expirence, and you're pulling off good results. painting takes years to learn, and for $50, a respectable paint job is awesome. there's a learning curve, but the only way to learn is to do it, once you have it down pat, and know all the tricks, then you'll find it is really a easy process, there is no other way to paint your car for less with these results, even a rattle can paint job will cost more, plus it's a clean process, and you can take your time.

EXIT1965- regarding the buffing, the turtle wax polishing compound has a grit rating as i mentioned before of 2500+ grit. that being said, that small test area would take me over 20mins to finish, perhapps you did'nt polish long enough. you can use the tutrle wax rubbing compound, which i think is about 1000 grit equivilent. but i found it too agressive using a electric polisher. i polished my charger for about a good solid day, probablly over 8hours, but it's easy work, you just stand there and let the polisher do the work. your test area is small, and i actually would find it eaiser to polish a larger area than a small test area like yours. you should try a whole trunk lid for example, i think you'll find it alot eaiser. the final result all depends on how good the prep is, prep is everything no matter how you actually paint the car.

as for the shine, i think it's also good to remember that these cars originally from the factory had paint simmilar to my results, it's only in the last 20yrs, that BC/CC paint came into play, and that "wet paint" look is what we're all comparing this technique to. i really actually perfer the warm enamel finish to a BC/CC job on a old car, but if i were to paint my 2002 Mustang GT for example, i'd definatly go the BC/CC route.

Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 03:41 PM

I hear ya, 69Chargeryeehaa
I'm not looking for a bc/cc finish, but I would like to get some gloss.

This is going to be a driver car that I'm trying to get on the road by June, so this method is perfect to attain that goal with an acceptable paint cover. I'm not looking for perfection.
I will be testing the procedure on a Duster trunk lid, once the paint comes in. If I can get a finish similiar to your Charger, I'll be happy!
And you are correct, I have zero prior auto body painting experience.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 04:08 PM

Quote:

keep in mind guys that basically all of you trying this method have no previous painting expirence, and you're pulling off good results. painting takes years to learn, and for $50, a respectable paint job is awesome. there's a learning curve, but the only way to learn is to do it, once you have it down pat, and know all the tricks, then you'll find it is really a easy process, there is no other way to paint your car for less with these results, even a rattle can paint job will cost more, plus it's a clean process, and you can take your time.

EXIT1965- regarding the buffing, the turtle wax polishing compound has a grit rating as i mentioned before of 2500+ grit. that being said, that small test area would take me over 20mins to finish, perhapps you did'nt polish long enough. you can use the tutrle wax rubbing compound, which i think is about 1000 grit equivilent. but i found it too agressive using a electric polisher. i polished my charger for about a good solid day, probablly over 8hours, but it's easy work, you just stand there and let the polisher do the work. your test area is small, and i actually would find it eaiser to polish a larger area than a small test area like yours. you should try a whole trunk lid for example, i think you'll find it alot eaiser. the final result all depends on how good the prep is, prep is everything no matter how you actually paint the car.

as for the shine, i think it's also good to remember that these cars originally from the factory had paint simmilar to my results, it's only in the last 20yrs, that BC/CC paint came into play, and that "wet paint" look is what we're all comparing this technique to. i really actually perfer the warm enamel finish to a BC/CC job on a old car, but if i were to paint my 2002 Mustang GT for example, i'd definatly go the BC/CC route.






Cool. that test area didn't take me more than 3 minutes to "polish", I guess I didnt spend enough time on it. My issue now is I should have used more than 180 on the final surface before starting, I'm seeing lots of scratches in there that I think are too big to be from the fine grit sandpaper during wetsanding.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 04:32 PM

Quote:



Cool. that test area didn't take me more than 3 minutes to "polish", I guess I didnt spend enough time on it. My issue now is I should have used more than 180 on the final surface before starting, I'm seeing lots of scratches in there that I think are too big to be from the fine grit sandpaper during wetsanding.




180 is way to harsh to prep with, i'd say 300-400 final prep at least. polishing is tricky, you can achieve fast results with a harsher or higher grit equivelant polish compound, or take your time and use a fine compound, the benifit to the finer compound (turtle wax polishing compound paste) is that there is virtually no way to burn or damage the paint with it even if you polish for hours, it only gets better, there are many polishing coumpounds available, i only reccommended the turtle wax polishing compound cause for a amature it's easy to get awesome results, and the chances of really screwing up are very slim. like painting, polishing and wetsanding is also a learned skill. i could have reccommended the 3M 3 step process compounds, but most likely, if you've never done it before you will really screw up. turtle wax polishing compound works really nice with a electric buffer and water, goes a long way, and is very cheap, and i found it to be the best polish compound for this job, i have a shelf full of 3M, mothers, meguires, ect....never use the stuff after i tried the turtle wax stuff. but if you know what your'e doing, use what your confortable with, just don't complain when you burn the paint!!!! lol keep in mind the paint is fresh when polishing, and cutting it with a harsh compound is not wise, sometimes the the cheapest is the best.....sometimes; we are all on a "budget" after all are'nt we????.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 06:04 PM

maybe I am getting things confused but for waxing the car, I use lots of water with the diamond cut stuff?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 06:20 PM

Quote:

Ok, so i have the get alllll the white circles out? Even though they arent bumpy? I had some bumpy circles but those were bubbles that dried up and i got rid of them.

I'm wetsanding with fingers and well now i see it isnt working very well. The bLock is really small and takes forever!! LOL. I guess i'm gonna have to suck it up and scrub hahaha.

PS: Exit1965 Good to see you back in the game This stuff isnt that bad lol, i'm in such a big mess but i'm gonna keep going. GL To u too




well, do you HAVE to get all the "white circles" out? You don't HAVE to do anything (I tell that to my wife all the time - she still doesn't get it ) But... if you want a super smooth paint job, you're gonna need to get rid of them. Looking at the photo you took of the door, you can see exactly what they are; high spots (bumps) in the paint. They only look white because the sandpaper scuffed them, and they're high enough that the sandpaper didn't get down into the "valleys" between them (which is why the valleys still look glossy). This is where sanding with a block is important, using a block will give you a flat surface when sanding so you'll KNOW/SEE the high spots and low spots. Make sense?

Be careful - you really dont want to "scrub", as in applying alot of pressure, you risk "scrubbing" off all the paint, or worse - sanding it unevenly. When you're wetsanding, keep that surface moist. I use a spray bottle, and when I feel like the sanding block is starting to "grab", give it another spritz of water. Smooth and steady. One way to tell that you've sanded enough, like 69 says, the entire surface will look smooth - like velvet. Now, if you REALLY want it smooth, you do like GTS suggests; when you think you're done, spray the area with a primer of contrast (dark primer on white paint/light primer on dark paint) then block sand it ALL OFF! If you did it right, you wont see any of the primer left. If you didn't, you'll see spots of the primer left in the "low" spots (scratches/dents/etc). That's hardcore!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 06:26 PM

Quote:

maybe I am getting things confused but for waxing the car, I use lots of water with the diamond cut stuff?




The Diamond Cut is a "polish" - not a wax. For waxing, use plain old car wax (of your own choice)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 09:51 PM

ah, thanks for the clarification.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 03/31/06 11:32 PM

I am sorry, just had to try this Where we at on the post count now?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/01/06 02:24 AM

Quote:

M2001,

I should have mentioned that. I wet sand in straight lines. I do change the direction but always in a straight line.
--------||||||||||---------|||||||||

-Dave




Dave - can you offer up a reason why sanding in a straight line is better than swirling?
Anyone else care to comment?
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/01/06 03:00 AM

Quote:


Dave - can you offer up a reason why sanding in a straight line is better than swirling?
Anyone else care to comment?




For me when I go in a swirl, I tend to dig the corners of my paper in, and it makes deeper scratches. I also find that going in straight lines gives me a more uniform finish. I am applying even pressure on the sanding block. With swirls, it is not steady / even pressure, and when you are going for a nice flat finish, it is counter productive. I don’t want to sand any more than I have to, so if going in straight lines makes the flattest finish for me, that is the way I go.

-Dave
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/01/06 05:51 PM

I asked the same question once. The guy used to work in a body shop, and he said that the sanding, even with a very high grit, makes tiny scratches on the paint, and light reflection is different than in the no "scratched areas". when you go in circles or swirls, those scratches are going to reflect light in all directions, not matter where you are looking at the car. It is going to look like a shiny "spider web". In the other hand, when you go in straight lines, the reflections from those scratches, it is going to match with the reflections on the panel if they are parallels. if the reflection is perpendicular to the reflection of the panel, it is going to go in a different directions but not to the observer, so the scratches are less evident.
I hope my explanation is understandable.
To make it easy, It is the same when you are next to a pond and you throw a stone in it. the reflection of light is going to go to your eyes wherever point you are standing at. But when there is waves, you can see the reflection just when you are in the direction of source of light. But you can't see it when you are perpendicular to the source of light.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/01/06 07:20 PM

Heres what the wife and I did this morning, 40 degrees outside, right in the parking lot.
$500 daily beater before...




$30 and 3 hours later...




I did zero prep work, no sanding, no priming, I didn't even tape anything off. Satin Black,looks great for me..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/01/06 09:01 PM

Quote:

Heres what the wife and I did this morning, 40 degrees outside, right in the parking lot.
$500 daily beater before...




$30 and 3 hours later...




I did zero prep work, no sanding, no priming, I didn't even tape anything off. Satin Black,looks great for me..




If I wasn't already sold (and I am becuase I've been looking for semi-gloss black EVERYWHERE) I am now!!
Posted By: GTXed

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/01/06 10:39 PM

69Charger, Ive been following this thread from the beginning and I was just wondering.If I decide to spray a panel as a test,should I still use mineral spirits and water it down as I would rollering? I,ve scrolled through a bunch of these pages and havent been able to find where anyone has asked about this.I,m going to try rollering a trunk lid in the next week or so but I want to spray one side just to compare the two! Thanks and great thread!
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/01/06 11:23 PM

Quote:

69Charger, Ive been following this thread from the beginning and I was just wondering.If I decide to spray a panel as a test,should I still use mineral spirits and water it down as I would rollering? I,ve scrolled through a bunch of these pages and havent been able to find where anyone has asked about this.I,m going to try rollering a trunk lid in the next week or so but I want to spray one side just to compare the two! Thanks and great thread!




if your spraying the paint, thin it down with mineral spirits, guess at the mix would be 30%, like a reducer. i have sprayed the tremclad/rustoleum, and it sprays awesome, flows very nice, and alot eaiser than single stage paint, does'nt smell as bad either. if you can spray, i'm sure you'll be really really happy with it, like i said it flows like no other paint i've sprayed before, just make sure it's thinned out nice, if your gun starts clogging, your too thick, works espically nice with a HVLP setup. just a tip if you do spray, thin only to get good performance from your gun, then, when painting, it's not like single stage or BC/CC, you'll want to lay each coat just enough to be wet, but not thick, unlike where you spray single stage with 1 mist coat, then 2 medium, then 1 mist coat again if your doing a metalic. just spray just enough for it to be "wet" and self level. on some peices i've done, the results were glass, amazing results. thing i like about the paint is that it's so inert, does'nt fish eye, humidity and temp are allmost irrevelant, unless your doing it in extreems. just a incredibly easy to spray, and flows amazing paint. i sprayed 4 coats on my test pieces, and did'nt wetsand at all, just polish, results were amazing. i'm debating on trying the tremclad clear coat, since tremclad sent me a case of it!!!! good luck. post some pics.
Posted By: 69superbee383

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/02/06 03:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Heres what the wife and I did this morning, 40 degrees outside, right in the parking lot.
$500 daily beater before...




$30 and 3 hours later...




I did zero prep work, no sanding, no priming, I didn't even tape anything off. Satin Black,looks great for me..




If I wasn't already sold (and I am becuase I've been looking for semi-gloss black EVERYWHERE) I am now!!




We did that to an old police Caprice a few years ago...want to have real fun get a stenil and paint in flat red letters " offical use only " on the doors and some meaningless numbers in flat red on the fenders then black the windows out and stick a few antennas on it....really freaks people out
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/02/06 05:51 AM

I'm trying some Penetrol stuff now. On a small part of my old door, I laid down a coat that colored it completely. It was "Aluminum" color Rustoleum (which is metallic) mixed with penetrol to make a pretty watery mixture as far as I could tell. Anyways, it's laying very flat with no roller marks, so the penetrol is doing its job. I'm going to do 3 coats total, wetsanding after each coat starting with 1000 then end with 1500. The first coat seemed to color it completely so 3 coats should be more than enough.

If penetrol works the way it seems it is, the 50 dollar paint job got a lot easier because you can do 3 coats instead of 6.

The strange thing is this paint, it's called "aluminum" and its from Rustoleum professional... its got lots of metallic in it, but I found it hard to mix up.. there always seemed to be light and dark in the can. The color that ended up on the test area is uniform, but not very glossy. It looks kind of like sandpaper. We'll see how it will dry.

Anyways I am keeping my fingers crossed that using Penetrol somehow results in the final product being harder than the mineral spirit mixes. Though on my prof. test area, I cannot scratch off to the surface, I can still put lots of little designs in it with my fingernail. Other people say their rustoleum dried very hard so I'm not sure what's going on in my garage.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/02/06 08:25 AM

hey exit, I'm real interested in what the aluminum looks like under different lights. I want to do a 2 tone paint job of light and dark grey and i see the aluminum as the only option for light grey under the professional line up.

Does it hav a strong metalic look to it? I wonder if I can mix in some of the dark grey in it to cut back if thats the case.

prep for my car has delayed my attempts of this method here and there but I expect to get working on it soon.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/02/06 04:58 PM

Quote:

I'm trying some Penetrol stuff now. On a small part of my old door, I laid down a coat that colored it completely. It was "Aluminum" color Rustoleum (which is metallic) mixed with penetrol to make a pretty watery mixture as far as I could tell. Anyways, it's laying very flat with no roller marks, so the penetrol is doing its job. I'm going to do 3 coats total, wetsanding after each coat starting with 1000 then end with 1500. The first coat seemed to color it completely so 3 coats should be more than enough.

If penetrol works the way it seems it is, the 50 dollar paint job got a lot easier because you can do 3 coats instead of 6.

The strange thing is this paint, it's called "aluminum" and its from Rustoleum professional... its got lots of metallic in it, but I found it hard to mix up.. there always seemed to be light and dark in the can. The color that ended up on the test area is uniform, but not very glossy. It looks kind of like sandpaper. We'll see how it will dry.

Anyways I am keeping my fingers crossed that using Penetrol somehow results in the final product being harder than the mineral spirit mixes. Though on my prof. test area, I cannot scratch off to the surface, I can still put lots of little designs in it with my fingernail. Other people say their rustoleum dried very hard so I'm not sure what's going on in my garage.






be carefull, that alluminum paint is totally different from the other stuff. it's prone to fish eyes, and major shift in the metalics. don't guage your results on this paint, it dries allmost semi-gloss, it will never shine, i know, i used that paint to paint the wheels on the VW's. it's not the same paint as the colors.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/02/06 06:50 PM

Quote:

I asked the same question once. The guy used to work in a body shop, and he said that the sanding, even with a very high grit, makes tiny scratches on the paint, and light reflection is different than in the no "scratched areas". when you go in circles or swirls, those scratches are going to reflect light in all directions, not matter where you are looking at the car. It is going to look like a shiny "spider web". In the other hand, when you go in straight lines, the reflections from those scratches, it is going to match with the reflections on the panel if they are parallels. if the reflection is perpendicular to the reflection of the panel, it is going to go in a different directions but not to the observer, so the scratches are less evident.
I hope my explanation is understandable.
To make it easy, It is the same when you are next to a pond and you throw a stone in it. the reflection of light is going to go to your eyes wherever point you are standing at. But when there is waves, you can see the reflection just when you are in the direction of source of light. But you can't see it when you are perpendicular to the source of light.





Sounds reasonable. I suppose in theory it doesn't really make any difference if you final polish enough as you should eliminate all of the "scratching" anyway.

On a different note - started prepping the mower for painting. Gonna try the penetrol this time, see if I notice any difference. I didn't fully realize just how banged around it got from Hurricane Wilma, it's been a dry winter and I think I've only mowed the lawn twice since then. I had to leave it outside during the storm, no room in the garage - it got blown about 20 feet from where it was originally parked up against the house, and took a bit of a pounding when the metal awnings got ripped off the house. Not bad, but pretty amazing, it's pretty damned heavy and it was still in "park" mode, so it was not rolling but dragging across the pavement!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/02/06 08:18 PM

Well, I, like many others stumbled upon this behemoth of a thread about two weeks ago. Right on time since I am in the process of fixing my car. I will not reveal the model or any other info about the car besides the fact that it's from the 80's, has a V8, is four years older than me, and was born on the same side of the ocean as I was.

I debated with myself about using this method to paint my car, especially since being in college money is *tight*. Anyway, I am using the rustoleum pro aluminum #7715. When I first bought the gallon from HD, the paint in the can on top was very watery, but when I stuck the stick in it was very thick on the bottom, almost tar-like! I stirred the paint with the stick for like 15 minutes and it helped a little. Then I mixed it with MS, and painted my hood and roof. The paint when on okay. I waited a little, did a second coat and left.
Came back the next day and the paint looked like crap, with roller marks and wasnt fully dry in places. I tried to sand it of and even with water it clogged so bad the paper was useless after about ten minutes. I took the paint back to HD and the paint guy said the paint looked defective to him. He pulled me another can, cracked it and checked the bottom, and it was gummy but not as bad as mine. He told me he was gonna shake it up and I said no b/c of the bubbles. He said he'll only shake it for a minute, not the full four minutes. He shook it up, pulled the can out and popped the top. No bubbles. Smooth, uniform paint. NICE.
While at HD I picked up some better foam rollers. The first ones I used were black, and the foma layer I realized was thin, and the roller part was thick. I found the white ones and the foam layer was thick, almost all the way to the center and the roller part was very thin. Worked much better.
After I resanded the hood and roof back to smooth, I mixed up the paint and started rolling the car. Went on smooth and very nice. After the first coat it looked very shiny and light. My car was originally Earl Scheib silver, and it the 1st coat looked very bright silver, almost like a chrome, but not smooth and glassy like chrome. The second coat looke much darker, closer to the color on the label. still smooth. I am on my way to go sand it down with 600 and more paint right now. The results look promising. I dont know what fish eyes are, but mine looks fine. We'll see!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 12:56 AM

PROJECT LAWN MOWER - the quest for the perfect inexpensive paintjob CONTINUES!

Okay, well, its gonna have to wait a little longer. As I mentioned earlier, I did the pep work today, a thorough wetsand (400 grit) over the existing paint which was still in pretty reasonable condition. I had bought some of the Penetrol and made the decision to try it out.

First thing I noticed was how thick the Penetrol was, almost like salad oil as described earlier. I thinned out the paint to nearly 50% but it was still thicker than my mineral spirits batch. Thinning any more I felt would be pointless as the mix was almost the same consistancy as the Penetrol right out of the can.

Got started and immediately was not liking what I was seeing. Bubbles, bubbles and more bubbles. But of more immediate concern was the fact that I could not blow out the bubbles like I was able to do with the mineral spirits batch. The paint did eventually spread out, but by no means any better than the mineral spirits batch, but it did take almost three times as long, and a frustrating amount of re-rollering to eliminate the bubbles. The more I worked with it, the less I liked it. I worked it and worked it and worked, and eventually got a decent coat down. But it was VERY labor intensive, and I was not wholey satisfied I'd gotten all the bubbles out.

After only doing the "bonnet" of the mower, I made the decision to can up the remainder of the Penetrol batch and park it on the shelf.

Mixed up a batch of mineral spirits thinned paint and had a go on the fenders and rear deck. What a WORLD of difference! The mineral spirits batch went of infinitely easier, the bubbles disipated with a mere puff of breath and the paint instantly started to "flow". I was able to cover the same amount of surface area as the bonnet in 1/4 of the time as the Penetrol batch, with virtually no trouble with bubbles.

I was sold, the remainder of the Penetrol will stay in the can and will heve to find a use for something else. After waiting a couple of hours, I went back to re-examine. I acutally tried to lay down a second coat of mineral spirit batch over the Penetrol batch, but it was still too tacky - paint started to pull up.

The Mineral Spirits coat I'm sure would have recieved a second coat with no trouble as it alreadfy felt dry - and it was laid down AFTER the Penetrol coat!

After another hour or so, I compared the two mixes and noted: Both flowed smoothly, and the Penetrol coat did eventually yield the same results of the mineral spirits coat, However, it took a considerable more amount of work to achieve this result, and the Penetrol coat stayed "wet" for much long. Longer enough, in fact, that it managed to attract considerably more dust and other debris than I was comfortable with. Granted, in doing a car I would spend considerably greater efforts to get the garage clean. On the flip side of this, the mineral spirits coat went on very nicely, but has a much narrower margin for error. You only have about 5 - 10 minutes to work with it before you have to stop, or risk pulling up paint.


My personal conclusion is that the Penetrol, although in the end producing a comparable coat, showed no advantages over the mineral spirits. In fact, to me it exhibited enough negative traits that I've chosen not to experiment any further with it, preferring the comparitive ease of the mineral spirits.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 01:37 AM

Youre right Charger, this aluminum stuff wont work well for this. After wetsanding, it leaves black scratches with some silver. Looks very bad.

I guess I'll try to find some standard rustoleum "pewter gray" which I understand does gloss.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 02:11 AM

can you show a pic of what it looks like after sanding? After I wetsanded mine it just turned a flat gray color.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 02:14 AM

good work rick, i have only tried mineral spirits, and i've never had issues with bubbles staying and ruining the paint, so i'll stick with the mineral spirits, i have sprayed this paint and it sprays espically nice and much eaiser than any other paint i've ever sprayed. if i had the room i would have sprayed the charger, but the damm thing is too big to fit in the garage!!!!.

exit - definetly the alluminum stuff is really wierd paint, it was fine in the spray can form, but i did notice it acted really funny, not at all like the tremclad paint, i only used it on the wheels of the VW beetles, and it holds up really well but fish-eyed like mad.

one more thing about spraying this paint, it does'nt stink nearly as bad as single stage, and you can get away with alot lower pressure, and it does'nt suspend it's self like single stage paint does, meaning that your garage will not be totally smoked out after 2 mins of spraying.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 03:28 AM

can you someone elaborate on what kind of polisher will work? can I use something like this?


Specs:
The RB60K features smooth, random orbital action to allow for a professional, swirl-free finish. Textured soft spray on housing for a comfortable grip.

• Features smooth, random orbital action to allow for a professional, swirl-free finish
• Textured soft spray on housing for a comfortable grip
• Only 7.75 In. tall for a balanced feel
• Fully-contained bearings for maitenance free applicaiton
Internet ID 165404
Brand Ryobi
Model # RB60K
Amperage .5 AMP
Case Included No
Contents 1 applicator bonnet and 1 terry cloth buffing bonnet
Dust Collection No
Sanding Speed-Maximum 4000 OPM
Sanding Speed-Minimum 0 OPM
UPC CODE 033287130412

It's only like 20 bucks. What I want to do tomorrow morning is take a small section that is painted already, sand it with 1500 grit and polish it to see what it will look like.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 03:36 AM

could u paint carbon fiber with this? would u have to sand the carbonfiber? and, wat sanders do you guys use to sand away? and canadian tire does tint the paint...so when they take the base and add color in to get the desired color...should i tell them not to shake it and go home and sit for 30 mins just stiring the paint? orr i have this thing "as seen on tv" where u can vaccum seal stuff...can i just put the can in the plastic baggy and then vaccum all the bubbles out?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 03:40 AM

Quote:

can you show a pic of what it looks like after sanding? After I wetsanded mine it just turned a flat gray color.




I didnt take any pics after sanding, it looked horrible though - very uneven. Here is a pic before sanding.



I painted over that area, after sanding it down with 240, with this "regal red" color again using penetrol. I found it VERY easy to work with. yes, there were lots of bubbles but they went away on their own and the surface is fairly flat. This is the first coat put on about 20 minutes prior to the picture. Not sure if I want a red Dart or not.

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 03:47 AM

Sure that polisher will work! I am using an old 10" random orbital that you hold with 2 hands. It's not easy for me to use and has a hair trigger which I dont like, I was thinking of picking up one of those 6" Ryobis.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 05:22 AM

I've been following a thread about this over at hybridz.org, but the thread seems to have died over there. Anyways I've been experimenting this last week with the rustoleum and a cheap airgun.



this is a honda fender i tried a few different methods on before deciding on a method to work best for me. I tried working with the mineral spirits, but found that it took a long, long, time to flash, probably because i had to thin it quite a bit to get it to spray well out of my gun, it also tended to drip down verticle surfaces. The pics shown are rustoleum "regal red" thinned with acetone, it flashed much quicker with the acetone and i found it way easier to work with. It actually came out looking incredibly glossy, but then i messed that up playing with the buffer and polish




This is the next test, its already recieved two coats, but needed a little more rough sanding to smooth it out. i'll probably be giving it two more coats tommorow and then wet sanding the next day. After playing around with this stuff i have pretty high expectations for it. I also bought a few cans of this im gonna try out-


I'll post some more pics when i get some more work done on it.
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 12:28 PM

Quote:


I didnt take any pics after sanding, it looked horrible though - very uneven. Here is a pic before sanding.

I painted over that area, after sanding it down with 240, with this "regal red" color again using penetrol. I found it VERY easy to work with. yes, there were lots of bubbles but they went away on their own and the surface is fairly flat. This is the first coat put on about 20 minutes prior to the picture. Not sure if I want a red Dart or not.






Hey Exit1965, thanks for the picture! I think I'm sold on the Penetrol! Keep up the posts. Let us know how the drying and hardening of the paint does as compared to the mineral spirits.
I haven't picked up any penetrol yet, but how do you think it would spray? I'm thinking I'll spray the door jambs, trunk, and engine bay and roller the rest.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 04:58 PM

Where is everyone finding penetrol? I have looked at a few home depots without any luck. I am trying a lowes today.
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 05:25 PM

Try your local hardware stores.
Aubuchon carries it.
You can order it online as well.
http://paint-and-supplies.hardwarestore....ner-101287.aspx
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 05:55 PM

I got it at home depot in the same place they have the acetone, mineral spirits and such.

A bunch of pages ago, I think someone mentioned using an enamel hardener. Has anyone tried enamel hardener with Rustoleum? I'm thinking the secret recipe could be rustoleum, penetrol to make it flow, and enamel hardener to improve scratch resistance. In my experience it just doesn't get hard enough on its own, even with months of drying.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 06:13 PM

Quote:

I got it at home depot in the same place they have the acetone, mineral spirits and such.

A bunch of pages ago, I think someone mentioned using an enamel hardener. Has anyone tried enamel hardener with Rustoleum? I'm thinking the secret recipe could be rustoleum, penetrol to make it flow, and enamel hardener to improve scratch resistance. In my experience it just doesn't get hard enough on its own, even with months of drying.




It could be a reason for all this to sort of be resistant to abuse and also bending becuase it flexes... althought it really should resist rock chips flying at it at 60mph, etc since it doesnt pass the fingernail test.

I painted a fiberglas front lip for my nissan se-r specV in the gloss white, and after drying for about 2 weeks now I can still make a mark with my fingernail, but i cant scratch it off becuase of its great adhesion to fiberglas. I also used automotive primer from rustoleum in the spray can becuase I sanded some old paint off and got down to the gel coat.

I have wetsanded the final coat to 1500 grit, and have orangepeel all over it becuase this was basically my test piece. The reason for my orange peel is that I had a layer or two too thick on it. My first layer was perfect, as well as my last layer, but the layers in between are somewhat moderate to thick.

I have decided to just wait until I get my polishing pad to buff it to see how it turns out instead of sanding it more and revealing more high spots since its a fiberglas lip and there are surface level imperfections. I dont want to paint it again just to cover the primer under and having to wetsand it and see it again.

I know its not the best test item, but I was eager to not waste some of the paint on my dead fender. All the lessons that you learn here will not fully to through until you try it. There is no better answer for everyone's questions except to really follow the instructions and then try it for yourselves.

I will try to post some pics when I get some polishing done. I always have dust on my paint layers so I have to wetsand it... which takes off the gloss coat.. but im hoping I get some better results than some of you with the gloss level after polishing.

Frank.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 06:29 PM

Exit - When you say the bubbles went away on thier own using the Penetrol, do you mean that you did not go back and lightly re-roller at all? If so, how long did it take for them to go away? I will admit that at this point I feel alittle more comfortable with the mineral spirits, simply because I can see the bubble gone almost immediately. But if the Penetrol manages to lose the bubbles on it's own, it may be worth taking a second look at.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 06:33 PM

resist the urge to paint thick, and wetsand with a coarse grit, and speed polishing by pushing on the polisher, ect....it's like what drives us to touch wet paint just to see if it's magiclly dry right after you paint it!!!!!
apply the paint as if you think it's way to thin, then it'll be fine.

exit1965, there must be a cali thing about your paint, i painted a test piece with my finger on thick just to check color, did it with my finger on a 4"x4" area, that was 5 days ago, no way i can scratch it off.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 07:31 PM

Quote:

Exit - When you say the bubbles went away on thier own using the Penetrol, do you mean that you did not go back and lightly re-roller at all? If so, how long did it take for them to go away? I will admit that at this point I feel alittle more comfortable with the mineral spirits, simply because I can see the bubble gone almost immediately. But if the Penetrol manages to lose the bubbles on it's own, it may be worth taking a second look at.




I applied the stuff thick and fast, it made lots of bubbles but they popped within about 5-10 seconds. I did not roll over it lightly a few minutes later - I was trying to see how it would lay with a quick roll.. and it seems to lay good.

Charger- if you use your nail and scrape sideways (like you are trying to 'slice it' with your nail) - does it not leave a scratch? It does for me, but no car paint I've tried this on scratches at all.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 08:46 PM

I had to finally check out this thread and see what the big deal was about. I must say I chucked. I was expecting the same old paint and body tips and tricks. I've been using Tremclad for at least 15 years. I always used varsol to thin it and it always came out sharp. I sprayed it though. A roller just seemed a little too "hillbilly". Hehheh. Its awesome for frames, suspension and it "sticks" like nothing else. I love that stuff, I just never talked about it. Nice work!
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 09:44 PM

Quote:

Where is everyone finding penetrol? I have looked at a few home depots without any luck. I am trying a lowes today.




In Home Depot look in the paint sprayer section. House paint sprayers, not HVLP type. In the area HD's around here the Penetrol is with the sprayers.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 10:27 PM

Quote:

Charger- if you use your nail and scrape sideways (like you are trying to 'slice it' with your nail) - does it not leave a scratch? It does for me, but no car paint I've tried this on scratches at all.




i know you want me to say yes, it scratches, but sorry, no scratches/peeling/nada. if i use a screw driver, i can scratch it, but from what you describe it's nothing near that, i can't scratch it off the peice of sheet metal i painted on.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/03/06 10:29 PM

Quote:

In Home Depot look in the paint sprayer section. House paint sprayers, not HVLP type. In the area HD's around here the Penetrol is with the sprayers.




i cannot stress how much better a HVLP gun is.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 12:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:

In Home Depot look in the paint sprayer section. House paint sprayers, not HVLP type. In the area HD's around here the Penetrol is with the sprayers.




i cannot stress how much better a HVLP gun is.




He's just telling him where to find the penetrol.

All the rustoleum ive tried has scratched easily. Maybe its my fingernails, or a california thing but..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 02:01 AM

Hey, guys i'm back. bUddah civic. I was banned (deserved it) cuz i said some profanity. Rules are rules, i learned my lesson, admins are nice for unbanning me. Thanks again!


Quote:

I got it at home depot in the same place they have the acetone, mineral spirits and such.

A bunch of pages ago, I think someone mentioned using an enamel hardener. Has anyone tried enamel hardener with Rustoleum? I'm thinking the secret recipe could be rustoleum, penetrol to make it flow, and enamel hardener to improve scratch resistance. In my experience it just doesn't get hard enough on its own, even with months of drying.




Umm...exit..i dunno what your doing but mine was rock hard solid after 24hours i couldnt even pull it with all strength and i'm 6'2 - 185lbs ahha, not that it matters.

I have done three coats soo far and am wetsanding again with 800GRIT right now cuz i bought a WAGNER CONTROL SPRAY from homedepot and tested it on a test piece (my license plate area cuz it was still white from the original) iT goes on very smooth but i made it toooooo thin so it ran very fast. But my main problem is bubbles every can has bubbles even if I leave it in the refrigirater and let it come back to room temp on its own. I went back to homedepot to ask the guy if this stuff is professional rust-oleum or normal he said its normal, apparently they dont make tints of the professional kind.

On the third coat it took me over 4 hours cuz i was doing each panel, letting it dry for 1-2minutes then going over with the roller to flatten the bubbles and smoothing it out. RIght now i'm wetsanding and am still getting orange peels but not very very many. Can any of you guys guess what i'm doing wrong? The paint is definetly thin. I know its not the thickness problem.

I'm gonna spray the 4th coat after i finish wetsanding. I will upload pics of the progress soo far tommorow when its sunny and not thunderstorming >.>

Good info guys and good luck.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 02:02 AM

So getting back to the Aluminum 7715 paint, I have ditched it for the 7781 light machine gray. I wet sanded a 10" radius area on my door with 1500 and then polished with my new ryobi 6" polisher and the area polished very nicely but turned very dark. It was very glossy and smooth, but just turned a dark gray color. I tried polishing an unsanded area and same thing. Turns very dark. No good. hopefully the machine gray will work better. First impression the paint feels different when rolling, it smells different too. So now we know, stay away from aluminum 7781 for this process.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 03:20 AM

Is there any way to get the metallic stuff in this paint? Don't know what it's called but the cars I see on the roads have like metallic particles in the paint that is noticeable when you look up close to the car. What do you need to do to get that metallic stuff in some tremclad?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 03:34 AM

The 7715 aluminum dries very shiny and bright, just not glossy at all. its very flat, like exit said. Maybe if you roll (is that possible?) or spray some clear over, it would look good.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 05:06 AM

Quote:

Is there any way to get the metallic stuff in this paint? Don't know what it's called but the cars I see on the roads have like metallic particles in the paint that is noticeable when you look up close to the car. What do you need to do to get that metallic stuff in some tremclad?




those are metal flakes...you can take thema and mix them with your clear coat and spray it on...cant roller them on though.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 05:43 AM

Rick - regarding those bubbles. I tried again tonight except using my old "Almond" standard rustoleum. Bubble city. I tried 3 times, wiping it off twice, with different ratio of penetrol:rustoleum and it didn't bubble but it ran really bad.

When I tried with that red and with aluminum, I got it to lay very nicely, but that was on a horizontal surface. On the vertical surface I tried just now, runs like crazy or too many bubbles.



I'm an experimenter at heart so I'll try something new if someone else comes up with a way to apply this stuff so I can't scratch it so easily. In the meantime my bodywork is almost done and I've already spent more than $50 testing this process. I just can't do with the scratchability.

I would love to get my nails on the test area of the guys who said it's rock hard I was at work today and there's some pipe painted with some industrial enamel, and I could scratch it (not scratch the paint off of it, but scratch it) with my nail. I don't think I have super nails or anything either. I've tried scratching my nissan with factory paint, and my dad's coronet with cheap single stage paint, and they are rock hard and unscratchable with my nail. If it's rock hard and nail-unscratchable within 24 hours, I can't buy that.. you need to try scratching harder.

Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 07:09 AM

when wetsanding, do you stay away from the edges so you don't take all the paint off?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 01:39 PM

Quote:

when wetsanding, do you stay away from the edges so you don't take all the paint off?




What do you mean? are you using a block or doing it with fingers, like others suggested to me, use a block its better. If you mean when your sanding the corners or edges of the hood/door more paint seems to come off and well personally i had to do it cuz there were orange peels, just dont put alot of pressure do it lightly but longer.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 02:19 PM

Wow, 22,000 views! I have to save this again.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 05:21 PM

Yup! Found it at Lowes in that exact spot. I think home depot had it too but I expected to see it near the acetone so I missed it.

Exit, I thought you said that the professional wasn't scratchable? Is that not true?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 05:48 PM

Quote:

Yup! Found it at Lowes in that exact spot. I think home depot had it too but I expected to see it near the acetone so I missed it.

Exit, I thought you said that the professional wasn't scratchable? Is that not true?




Theres 2 kinds of scratchable I found - the standard stuff I could scratch all the way to the surface, i.e. scratch the paint off. Maybe my surface prep wasn't good.

The pro. stuff scratches- meaning with my fingernail I can put big scratches all over it (the standard stuff does that too). I could probably scratch it off if I worked hard enough, but it is not easy to scratch all the way off the way the standard stuff was. It just never fully hardened any time I've tried it, with several different colors.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 06:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Yup! Found it at Lowes in that exact spot. I think home depot had it too but I expected to see it near the acetone so I missed it.

Exit, I thought you said that the professional wasn't scratchable? Is that not true?




Theres 2 kinds of scratchable I found - the standard stuff I could scratch all the way to the surface, i.e. scratch the paint off. Maybe my surface prep wasn't good.

The pro. stuff scratches- meaning with my fingernail I can put big scratches all over it (the standard stuff does that too). I could probably scratch it off if I worked hard enough, but it is not easy to scratch all the way off the way the standard stuff was. It just never fully hardened any time I've tried it, with several different colors.




For me, the only way to find out if the paint is completely dry is when i think its dry i take a lil bit of baby powder and drop some and try to whipe it with my hands slightly or blow and if it blows away and none of it sticks then its try then again i do leave it to try for more than 24hours, not that i want to, just i'm soo busy with school and work :S
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 07:13 PM

So I too bought the alum. color not knowing how it will turn out and I now want the machine grey. For those that have bought it, where did you find it? I only seem to find 5 or 6 colors of the professional and I have looked in stores from lowes, home depot, and kelly moore.

Anyone know if it can be bought online?

thanks again for all the replies to my Q's!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 07:32 PM

Here's a gallon.

http://military.builderdepot.com/seo/RUSTOLEUM_BM/137564_7781_1G_LT_MACH_GRAY_OIL_ENL.ihtml
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 07:40 PM

Quote:

So I too bought the alum. color not knowing how it will turn out and I now want the machine grey. For those that have bought it, where did you find it? I only seem to find 5 or 6 colors of the professional and I have looked in stores from lowes, home depot, and kelly moore.

Anyone know if it can be bought online?

thanks again for all the replies to my Q's!




Did you ask at the paint counter of Home Depot to special order it?
I had to special order the color I wanted from Home Depot. You just have to order it by the case - 4 1QT cans for $32. They just called their Rustoleum rep and got the part number, price etc, and placed the order. It helps to go to the Rustoleumm home site and get the generic part number so you can compare to what they order and verify the correct color.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 07:52 PM

I frequent 4 different home depot stores in my area and I have found that the colors vary from store to store. Just aske them, it might be sitting in a box on a high shelf. I have not looked at Menard's or Lowe's, but I checked other paint stores or small hardware stores and they all carry Rustoleum Pro, colors all vary.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/04/06 08:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So I too bought the alum. color not knowing how it will turn out and I now want the machine grey. For those that have bought it, where did you find it? I only seem to find 5 or 6 colors of the professional and I have looked in stores from lowes, home depot, and kelly moore.

Anyone know if it can be bought online?

thanks again for all the replies to my Q's!




Did you ask at the paint counter of Home Depot to special order it?
I had to special order the color I wanted from Home Depot. You just have to order it by the case - 4 1QT cans for $32. They just called their Rustoleum rep and got the part number, price etc, and placed the order. It helps to go to the Rustoleumm home site and get the generic part number so you can compare to what they order and verify the correct color.




No I haven't seen askedthe counter people but I will be next time.

Exit, thanks for the link, if it looks like too much problem to get it ordered, I will just go that route. I know the shipping will be killer hehe.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/05/06 12:16 AM

Ok guys, i need some help right about now.

I did 2 coats and wetsanded and then did a third coat and am now wetsanding the car again with 600 and 800(Grit depending on the panel since as of now different places of the car for some reason have different thickness of paint) because i'm going to be spraying it now. Here are some pictures i took a few hours ago. My main problem right now is that the areas that were thinner have completely dissapeared and now the metal/underneath paint is showings. I bought a spray gun like i said, and will be spraying the hood for test tommorow. Why am i constantly getting orange peels on every coat when the viscocity is good and its not too thin or too thick and soo many bubbles >.<!!
Please charger any advice? Am i in over my head?






YOU CAN SEE SOME RED PAINT ABOVE

THERE, YOU CAN SEE THAT SMALL CIRCLE METAL SHOWING

WAGNER HLVP CONTROL SPRAY

CAR AS OF NOW




SOME MORE PAINT SHOWING, AND THIS IS SUPPOSE OT BE 3RD COAT.

Funny so far i've spent close to 100$ in material for this car, and man, soo much labor. I should of tested a area first lol, i'm soo stupid
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/05/06 02:40 AM

Well...hmmm...
Let's put things in perspective here: When you bought the car, it looked... ghastly. Given that, I think you've already made major improvements! I can see that you've spent some serious elbow grease in sanding to get the orange peel out, also well done. As for spots of the original paint coming through, I'll say two things. 1- it looks like some of these spots are either along edges or creases in the panels. 2-The others look like they are at areas that are dented (?). You have to be VERY careful when sanding edges/creases, especially if you're using a block. I think you've just over sanded in those areas. BUT...
You've also only got three coats on, correct? If you're laying the paint down properly, you wont completely cover the underlaying paint until the 4th coat. And that's assuming that you've layed down 4 nice coats. You've put on three, but judging on how much you're sanded to get all the orange peel out from the first two bad coats, you're really at more like 1.5 coats.

All in all, I think you're making major improvements. I know it doesn't feel like it, but you are. NOW... do yourself a HUGE favor... FORGET ABOUT THE SPRAY GUN!!! At least for now. Unless you've sprayed a car before, you're just BEGGING for more trouble. Slow down, get out a fresh clean NEW roller, and just concentrate on one panel. The hood is a good place to start. You've already learned quite a bit (I think), I'm willing to bet that the next coat will go on much better; as long as you don't get impatient.

As for the $100 - consider the alternative. Getting anyone else to paint your car, even the CHEAPEST, sloppiest spray job would have cost you 4 times that amount, and guarenteed you would not have been happy with it.

Next time you're out, take a good look at the paint jobs on cars, even new cars. You'll find that virtually all of them, except for the very high end cars, have a certain amount of "orange peel" to the paint. And the darker the color, the more pronounced it will appear. You "could" get rid of it entirely, but it is a very labor intensive job, even with a perfect spray job.
By keeping that paint thin, the amount of orange peel you will get is minimal. I think you just had a bad case of it because your first coat was way too thick. Go back and look at the first photos you posted.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/05/06 02:54 AM

RIck- when i got the tint the guy mixed it in a shaker for like 5 minutes, should i like stir it for an hour or something? also, how thin is thin? I mean i got it thined down to like water!! literally i drip the roller in and when i take it out it all drips out, i think this color is soo dark that it just goes on dark but i'm probably wrong. Should i continue to sand it down? the third coat was the best coat in my opinion. How do you guys get the coats on with NO bubbles? i mean very small bubles but i have to blow and then go over them again. I havent sprayed a car before but i have sprayed a fence and its the same method no? Gotta spray a car to begin somewhere right, what better test subject? hahaha than
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/05/06 03:06 AM

i'm testing with black tremclad on a computer case, and I could still see parts of the case after the third coat dried. I believe your coats are going on pretty thick. Or maybe i'm just overdiluting.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/05/06 03:18 AM

Hey bakuryu
I have almost finished with my car. I had the same problems with the old color showing up. What I did, in between coats, it was to go with the roller and paint those spots one more time. It worked.
When I start painting I got a lot of orange peel. What helped me to improve my painting technique was to avoid to paint when the metal is hot and follow the method described for this guy who paint old cars with a brush in England.
http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk/brush.html
It is kinda cheesy but it really worked. I hope this help
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/05/06 03:51 AM

I found time to spray another coat today... it didn't go on quite as smooth as i would have liked, but its getting there
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/05/06 04:47 AM

Quote:

Hey bakuryu
I have almost finished with my car. I had the same problems with the old color showing up. What I did, in between coats, it was to go with the roller and paint those spots one more time. It worked.
When I start painting I got a lot of orange peel. What helped me to improve my painting technique was to avoid to paint when the metal is hot and follow the method described for this guy who paint old cars with a brush in England.
http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk/brush.html
It is kinda cheesy but it really worked. I hope this help





What exactly in that article ? That speaking of brushes. My car has been sitting in the garage for the past 1 week lol and i just go there with my other car and paint and then leave. yea looks like i'm gonna have to go over those spots like twice or something.
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/05/06 05:16 AM

do you have to get all the scratches from the sandpaper out before you start to paint, or will the paint eventually cover them up? I ask this because I wasn't happy with what I had done, so I decided to start over. I think I used a too aggressive sandpaper and left scratches that I didn't notice (probably because I was in a hurry to get started again). Anyway, I got the consistency of the paint down now, but there are scratches that I can see through the first two coats. Do I need to take it back down and get all the scratches out? I'm guessing yes, but hoping no. Thanks
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/05/06 06:30 AM

Quote:

do you have to get all the scratches from the sandpaper out before you start to paint, or will the paint eventually cover them up? I ask this because I wasn't happy with what I had done, so I decided to start over. I think I used a too aggressive sandpaper and left scratches that I didn't notice (probably because I was in a hurry to get started again). Anyway, I got the consistency of the paint down now, but there are scratches that I can see through the first two coats. Do I need to take it back down and get all the scratches out? I'm guessing yes, but hoping no. Thanks




After wetsanding?? Or when you first sanded the body down? If during wetsand, what grit did u use?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/05/06 03:03 PM

Quote:

do you have to get all the scratches from the sandpaper out before you start to paint, or will the paint eventually cover them up? I ask this because I wasn't happy with what I had done, so I decided to start over. I think I used a too aggressive sandpaper and left scratches that I didn't notice (probably because I was in a hurry to get started again). Anyway, I got the consistency of the paint down now, but there are scratches that I can see through the first two coats. Do I need to take it back down and get all the scratches out? I'm guessing yes, but hoping no. Thanks




fine hair line scratches will be gone about the 3rd coat, just try to get it smooth when laying the paint. wetsand only enough to have a smooth surface before going to the next coat, but the paint does "fill" in the small really tiny scratches very well.

bakuryu - STEP AWAY FROM THE PAINTGUN, GO DOWN TO YOUR KNEES AND KEEP YOUR HANDS OUT OF YOUR POCKETS, PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR HEAD!!!!
lol, your big mistake here, which i've said about a million times is that your not doing a test area until you get the "hang" of it. so in essence you've created more work for yourself, plus with no previous expirence your definetly going to have a HUGE mess if you decide to spray. the color you chose is a really dark color, might i suggest you get some bright red??? haha, it's up to you, you could sand down the whole car until it's completely smooth, then ONLY DO THE HOOD until your satisified you've got the hang of it. i think you've painted at both extreems, first way too thick, then you went to the other extreeme and thinned it way too much, try in between, when sanding do the edges last, keeping light pressure, stay away from the body lines until the end, and then be carefull not to sand too much. i really think your getting fustrated because you're doing the whole car at once as a expirement, and seeing that you've made a few mistakes along the way which is the natural learning curve, but you've created alot more work for yourself. honestly if it were me, i would choose a brighter color, white is the best for hiding flaws, i'd sand the whole car down, choose a lighter color, expirement on the hood, then do the whole car, mix your ratio's in between your first coats and your final coats, avoid the temptation to lay the paint on too thick. good luck hang in there, don't give up, after your done with a nice job you'll be happy and will have learned from your mistakes.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/05/06 04:05 PM

Quote:

RIck- when i got the tint the guy mixed it in a shaker for like 5 minutes, should i like stir it for an hour or something? also, how thin is thin? I mean i got it thined down to like water!! literally i drip the roller in and when i take it out it all drips out, i think this color is soo dark that it just goes on dark but i'm probably wrong. Should i continue to sand it down? the third coat was the best coat in my opinion. How do you guys get the coats on with NO bubbles? i mean very small bubles but i have to blow and then go over them again. I havent sprayed a car before but i have sprayed a fence and its the same method no? Gotta spray a car to begin somewhere right, what better test subject? hahaha than




Okay, stop. Breathe, son. Deep breath in, slowly out... relax... Ohhhmmmmm.
You're getting there, but I just get the impression you're going a mile a minute. I know you're eager for results, but by rushing this you're only making yourself more work.

I read 69Chargers comments and I couldn't agree more. Painting a car is NOT like painting a fence, unless you want your car to look like a fence! Totally different materials, totally different surfaces, totally different paints. I also agree that you should concentrate your efforts onto ONE section of the car (hood, door, whatever), go through the ENTIRE process, until you learn what you need in order to get a successful result. As 69 mentioned, you did happen to pick probably the hardest of colors to start with (other than gloss Black). Dark colors show EVERYTHING, starting off with White might have been a better choice. BUT... it's still not too late.

If you feel the paint is so thin that it's running wild on you, then don't mix it down so thin. 69Charger may have hit the nail on the head, try a mix half way between your first coat (too thick - definitely) and your last coat(too thin? - maybe). As for mixing the paint (stirring), I stir the paint for at LEAST a good 15 minutes (slooooow, smooth, steady stirring)before I poor it in the tray, especially if it's sat overnight. Let's put it this way; OVER stirring will not hurt you (as long as you're not stirring so roughly as to cause bubbles), but UNDER stirring can hurt you (uneven mixture).

As for the bubbles - I have yet to be able to lay a coat without having to "blow" to get the bubbles out, but I've found that when I have the mixture right, it's really more of just a "puff" - not much effort at all is needed. If there are any little bubbles I missed, going back over them VERY GENTLY will get rid of them. But here is the key point, and I think this is where you are getting into trouble: When you're using the mineral spirits to dilute with, the time window you have to get the bubbles out is pretty narrow. I would say 7-10 minutes TOPS. That is why 69Charger has made the suggestion over and over to learn this technique on a single panel. I may be wrong here, but I think what might be happening with your painting is that because you have been trying to paint the entire car, you're taking too long to return to the painted areas before it's too late. If you wait too long to get the bubbles out, when the paint reaches that critical stage of drying, you end up making more bubbles, or worse yet pulling up the paint. that's why it's important to learn what you're doing on one panel. Learn how long you have to get all the bubbles out before the paint is too "tacky" to work with.

My last suggestion for the day, and I think you're not gonna like this - but I really think it's the best thing...

Go back to the very first page of this thread, and reread it. Not just scan over it, but really re-read EVERYTHING - like you were gonna get tested on it! There is an amazing amount of information in this thread alone, and most of the problems and questions you've been asking for help on have been covered several times. If you read the thread carefully, you'll pick up quite a few tips and tricks along the way.

Hang in there, and don't get frustrated - I think you're doing fine.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/05/06 04:36 PM

Thanks charger and thanks rick-

I have read this thread with great precision every post lol but that was like 2-3 weeks ago, mayb i will re-read it.

I, gonna wetsand the whole car and then just paint the hood and see how it goes. I'll make a video too to show you guys how thin it is.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/06/06 08:14 PM

What's that color again on the buddha??

Well after a solid week of looking for the specific light machine grey locally, it seems that the only way to get it is to special order it.

Home depot was able to get it for me in a gallon only as the quarts are no longer available. Crappy thing is, I had to order it in a 2 gallon pack, ugh! So $60 later, I will have it in my posession next week. I guess if I wanna paint everything inside and out, I will have the paint to do it. I was gonna use the online site posted above but after shipping the price would have just been less than $20 diff. between one and 2 gallons.

BTW, just for fun, when ordering this stuff, use the product number and add "402" to signify a gallon.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/06/06 09:06 PM

Quote:

What's that color again on the buddha??

Well after a solid week of looking for the specific light machine grey locally, it seems that the only way to get it is to special order it.

Home depot was able to get it for me in a gallon only as the quarts are no longer available. Crappy thing is, I had to order it in a 2 gallon pack, ugh! So $60 later, I will have it in my posession next week. I guess if I wanna paint everything inside and out, I will have the paint to do it. I was gonna use the online site posted above but after shipping the price would have just been less than $20 diff. between one and 2 gallons.

BTW, just for fun, when ordering this stuff, use the product number and add "402" to signify a gallon.




Glad you were able to get it, and so much of it! Please post some pics once you get started.. I am still keeping some hope alive that it could work and not be so scratchable. All the testing I've done has been while the weather is cool and often damp, and I wonder how it would cure in the Sacramento heat.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/06/06 10:38 PM

It's not too warm here right now but I am gonna try to give each coat atleast 12 hours in between coats.

The hardest part is that I wanna do a 2-tone paint job so I will have to lay down one color, wait to dry, then the other color.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/06/06 11:30 PM

Hey guys, i was in wallmart the other day and saw a WHOOOOOLE section of rust-oleum and immediatly got glued to that aisle as my parents were going through the yard/food section lol. They only had the 1quart cans but they had a PLETHERA of rattle-can stuff. A few of them in general were THE METALLIC ONES! I know, i tested it on one of the metal shelves, when no one was looking ^^ hehe, and it looked AMAAAAZING! the color was the dark orange/brown mettalic one of those from the new iNFINITY Q35's. It was riddiculous. THey also had some clear spray and i sprayed that on top after it dried which was rahter quick! and man o man it looked sooooooooo good. Now, i'm very very very tempted to just rattle can the whole car with the mettalic spray can! I'll buy one and try it on a piece as i've learned my lesson from jumping ahead ahahhaha.


EDIT: this stuff http://www.rust-oleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=22&SBL=1&dds=16 and the color was the first one, "Antique Brass Metallic"

PS: Exit- i did my first two sloppy coats on my Budda Civic at night time when the temperature was about 40C in a garage where it was colder, and it became rock sollid in the morning.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 04:51 AM

baku - if you push your thumbnail onto it then drag your thumbnail sideways (like slicing), does it not do anything?

I was just out in my garage earlier scratching all of the various test areas I've done, red, almond, standard, professional, using my fingernail and slicing sideways. On my car, with hard paint, I am unable to slice sideways or any other way.

I checked out a "1 day paint and body" today in Sacramento. Its a bad sign when you walk in and the two people working there are sitting in the office reading the funny pages. The few cars that were there did not look very good, way too much orange peel. Maybe slathering it on thick is the only way they can keep that 5 year non-prorated guarantee of theirs. So far I've got a couple prices- $500 from Miracle to shoot it with BASF urethane SS and a sealer, or $1200 from a better body shop for PPG Deltron BC/CC, if I bring it in primered up and ready to go. And I'd have to do the color sanding, which I'm fine with since its just time consuming. If I spent $1200 though I'd have a paint job worth more than that. That's a paint job on a budget, isn't it? Choices choices..

Im willing to part with some more $ in testing this rustoleum stuff, just everything I've tried doesn't harden enough, and all the hardeners I read about are highly toxic and I dont really want to mess with that since it requires so much working with. I've already spent probably 70 dollars on this thing, which is 14% of a $500 SS paint job with shine, metallic and very hard surface.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 05:44 AM

Hey, I as many other before me, have been linked up to this thread, I've been reading it since there were about 7 pages or so, and figured I'd contribute to it.
I drive an 87 Honda CRX (ack! an import, I know, but it works, and is cheap on gas:p) My cars already a light gray/silver so I was deadset on getting a silver colour so the engine bay still looks fine. The tremclad aluminum stuff, which I had some extra of from another project is useless, as the pigment comes out when you touch it and you cannot topcoat it with any other products, as they use actual aluminum in it, which has strange properties (to warn anyone who was/is planning on using it).
I looked around and found another line of paints called Stop Rust (or something to that effect) made by beautytone for HomeHardware, this stuff is even cheaper then the Tremclad is too, and works just as well (talked to a paint guy who uses it on his cars). The Stop Rust comes in an aluminum colour that is topcoatable and durable, I let it dry overnight in about 2 degree conditions(Celcius, I'm Canadian eh), I recoated again the next night, the next morning I couldnt scratch it with my fingernail or my well worn car key (it doesnt have sharp edges). This stuff might be the jackpot, plus here its 26 bucks for a gallon, vs 36 for the tremclad
I've located a roll-on clearcoat as well, made for automotive use, so its uv resistant, clear (not yellowish), and most importantly very durable.
Its called Crystal Coat by Zero Rust and costs 32 dollars(canadian) a quart, (so the clearcoats costing me twice as much as the paint).
Once I'm done school for the year (the end of april) I'll be painting my entire car and get some pictures up. I figured some of the people on here might be attracted to the roll-on clearcoat, since its very difficult to find. This will eliminate alot of wetsanding as well, since you only take it down to 600 grit then clear it.
anyways that's all for now folks, thanks for all the useful info!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 06:18 AM

Quote:

baku - if you push your thumbnail onto it then drag your thumbnail sideways (like slicing), does it not do anything?

I was just out in my garage earlier scratching all of the various test areas I've done, red, almond, standard, professional, using my fingernail and slicing sideways. On my car, with hard paint, I am unable to slice sideways or any other way.

I checked out a "1 day paint and body" today in Sacramento. Its a bad sign when you walk in and the two people working there are sitting in the office reading the funny pages. The few cars that were there did not look very good, way too much orange peel. Maybe slathering it on thick is the only way they can keep that 5 year non-prorated guarantee of theirs. So far I've got a couple prices- $500 from Miracle to shoot it with BASF urethane SS and a sealer, or $1200 from a better body shop for PPG Deltron BC/CC, if I bring it in primered up and ready to go. And I'd have to do the color sanding, which I'm fine with since its just time consuming. If I spent $1200 though I'd have a paint job worth more than that. That's a paint job on a budget, isn't it? Choices choices..

Im willing to part with some more $ in testing this rustoleum stuff, just everything I've tried doesn't harden enough, and all the hardeners I read about are highly toxic and I dont really want to mess with that since it requires so much working with. I've already spent probably 70 dollars on this thing, which is 14% of a $500 SS paint job with shine, metallic and very hard surface.






No matter what i do EXIT i cannot scratch this stuff. I will break a nail if i try, i've tryied it with a piece of hard stick as well and other ppl have tried it to. And its not just in 1 area, the WHOLE CAR, no where am i able to put a scratch. I've spent about 200$ soo far since i bought the car. Thats for SANDPAPER to get rid of the original budda civic car, brake pads and rotors, terry-cloth, goof-off, rust-oelum paint, more sandpaper, bondo. So yea, if i were to give my car to the body shop as it was when i bought it. They were charging me 2500+ to do all the body work and then do a single stage paint.

No way jose! My paint is finally starting to come along. I think lol, this wetsand i'm doing now, after the third coat, has A LOT LESS ORANGE PEELS, the first two coats i admit, i rushed and were too thick. But this third one is alot better and i only hope it gets better.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 06:55 AM

hey everyone, i decided to give this a shot. i picked up some sunburst yellow rustoleum today and everyhting else and did a test patch on my roof. it seems to be going pretty well so far. i put down the first two coats. i can still kind of see through it, and im not having any problems with the paint adhereing or anything. i think i'm doing everyhting right so far?!?! i havent wetsanded yet, ill try that out in the morning. this is great, i wish i had taken time to read this whole thread as it goes, instead of all of it in 2 nights. hahaha! thanks for the great info. you guys have gotten the method down well. i hope mine turns out well, ill post some pics later.
-taylor
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 11:15 AM

Stevo911 - definitely interested in your clearcoat find. Let us know what you can about it; test results, photos, whatever!

I found this on the net:
http://www.zero-rust.com/crystal-coat.html
I take it this is the clear coat you are referring to? Haven't read the info yet, but will dig into it tonight.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 02:20 PM

Tremclad sells clear coat, that's uv resistant, ect.....and works over the paint, tremclad sent me a case of the stuff because when they called me they asked about the clear coat, and i said i might consider using it, i told them i tried to use it but it was no better than the paint shine, they asked me if i used mineral spirits, and i said yes, and they said that's my problem, and told me i should use laquir thinner and it will be really shiny. they said the reflective properties of the clear coat is 90% at 60*deg angle (they reflect light at 60*deg and it reflects 90% of the light!!!), which is really really shiny. some clearcoats like the auto motive ones i don't think are a good idea to go over the paint we're using.

EXIT1965 - clearly there is something different with the paint you're using. it must be a cali thing, cause everyone else is reporting that there is no way to scratch the paint, including me. regarding the cheap-o paint jobs, i'd really stay away from the cheap-o BC/CC, they just use the cheapest materials possible to get the cost down, and there could be issues down the road with peeling, ect....just go for a quality single stage, trust me on this one. if you're going to let a body shop do it, then go single stage, unless your prepeared to pay $2000+, and that's if you prep the car. one other thing, if you prep and primer the car they will never fix any problems with the paint down the road, because they say you prepped the car and they're not responisble. i played that game once, be warned, usually they won't touch the car if you prepped it. another alternative is to just spray paint (single stage) in your garage, i sprayed the 71 beetle (midnight blue metalic) in my garage, and allthough the paint is very good in quality, and the job looks like a pro job, if you look really closely you'll see the dust, dirt and hair that is virtually impossible to avoid unless you have a booth, but if your carefull, meticliously clean, you can pull of a pro job in your garage like i have. i used duplicolor single stage process paints, really good material that's cheap. i'll never spray again, i wish i could get you some tremclad paint, i thought you'd be the first sucess story, i'm positive that you'd be happy with the tremclad stuff. maybe go to another state and get the paint of call the rustoleum people and ask them what's up with your paint, don't tell them your painting a car, just say it can be scratched off, and see what they say, if their as nice as the tremclad guys here, they'll send you more paint.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 02:25 PM

oh and here's the tremclad clear coat:

http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=548&SBL=5

i got a case of it from tremclad for free!!!! it only comes in quarts, not gall. i have 8 cans i think?? mine is in brush (liquid) form in a quart. looks really thin out of the can, about the mix after thinning the paint down with mineral spirits. good stuff, sepically now that i have the tip to thin with laquir thinner.!!!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 03:54 PM

Rustoleum guys - could it be that I'm not mixing the paint enough? Maybe the hardening agents are hanging out at the bottom of the can and I really need to mix it all up. I've never stirred it for more than about 30 seconds, till it looks even, but now I'm wondering since other people are not having the scratch problem. I know Baku said they mixed his up real good for a minute.

I'd like to give it a shot with this color, canvas white..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 04:18 PM

Quote:

Rustoleum guys - could it be that I'm not mixing the paint enough? Maybe the hardening agents are hanging out at the bottom of the can and I really need to mix it all up. I've never stirred it for more than about 30 seconds, till it looks even, but now I'm wondering since other people are not having the scratch problem. I know Baku said they mixed his up real good for a minute.

I'd like to give it a shot with this color, canvas white..
[image]
http://www.antiquetractors.com/gphotos/a7231.jpg[/image]




Yea man, try it mix it alot. And do it on like a different metal surface. I didnt even sand down my my car all the way to metal and it stuck on to the front/rear bumper which still had a little bit of clear on from the original red paint. and it still sticks on like super glue. The paint that i have isnt professional because they said they cant tint professional rust-oleum only the standard stuff.

On other note: I'm almost done wetsanding the whole car with 800grit and will post pics cuz well there still are orange peels but not as much as there were in the first 2 coats, so i must b doing something right? lol i think LOl. But yea i'm gonna do the hood completely with all the coats and see how it turns out then do the rest of the car.
Posted By: WilliamHall

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 05:18 PM

Exit I live in roughly the same area as you, and have posted before about problems with Rustoleum scratchability. I am betting it is a Cailifornia or Northern California thing. A hardner maybe your only solution.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 05:20 PM

Exit - That's certainly a possibility, but I hate to say that I don't think that's it. I started my next project (ironically it's a mower, like your photo) and I used the comsumer STOPS RUST grade paint (Sunrise Red). I only gave the can a quick stir (15 seconds maybe) as the paint looked very uniform, before I poured it into a small container to mix the mineral spirits in. This was last Sunday. I checked again last night and I could not scratch the paint no matter how hard I tried, at least not with a fingernail. I'm sure I could with a screwdriver or something, but I could do that on my factory paintjob too! (no, I'm not willing to test that theory!)

It's been ridiculously dry weather here in S. FL for the past two months, but it won't be long before the humidity level starts to soar. It will be interesting to see if that has an effect as well.

I honestly wish I could offer a more educated opinion as to why your paint does not want to stick. The thought just occured to me; areyou using "odorless" or "low- odor" mineral spirits, or regular. Obviously there is a difference from regular Mineral Spirits. I'm not home right now, but I'm fairly certain I used just plain mineral spirits. It's a LONG shot, but...?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 05:22 PM

Quote:

Exit I live in roughly the same area as you, and have posted before about problems with Rustoleum scratchability. I am betting it is a Cailifornia or Northern California thing. A hardner maybe your only solution.



Either that or a road trip across the border (name the state of your choice)!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 05:39 PM

Quote:

Exit - That's certainly a possibility, but I hate to say that I don't think that's it. I started my next project (ironically it's a mower, like your photo) and I used the comsumer STOPS RUST grade paint (Sunrise Red). I only gave the can a quick stir (15 seconds maybe) as the paint looked very uniform, before I poured it into a small container to mix the mineral spirits in. This was last Sunday. I checked again last night and I could not scratch the paint no matter how hard I tried, at least not with a fingernail. I'm sure I could with a screwdriver or something, but I could do that on my factory paintjob too! (no, I'm not willing to test that theory!)

It's been ridiculously dry weather here in S. FL for the past two months, but it won't be long before the humidity level starts to soar. It will be interesting to see if that has an effect as well.

I honestly wish I could offer a more educated opinion as to why your paint does not want to stick. The thought just occured to me; areyou using "odorless" or "low- odor" mineral spirits, or regular. Obviously there is a difference from regular Mineral Spirits. I'm not home right now, but I'm fairly certain I used just plain mineral spirits. It's a LONG shot, but...?




I think I am using odorless mineral spirits. Should I be using something with odor? At home depot and at walmart, I didn't see anything but odorless, but I can look harder if you think that could be an issue (I'm hoping..).

William - could be you're right. If nothing but odorless spirits are available here, that could be a problem too. But I didn't know there was a difference between odorless, low odor, strong odor, etc.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 06:02 PM

I read online that low odor/odorless evaporates slower.


Baku, what type of mineral spirits were you using?

Just got off the phone with Rustoleum. He said he didn't think the mineral spirit type had anything to do with my scratchability. He also said in quarts, there is no VOC limit so the rustoleum product here is the exact same as the rustoleum product elsewhere in the US. He advised me that perhaps I was putting the paint on too thick, and that the surface was drying but under the surface, it was not dry and the solvents never escaped and so it could be scratchable for eternity.

I really wasn't putting it on that thick, but perhaps I didn't wait long enough between coats, or long enough after wetsanding. I'll try to find some regular mineral spirits (or at least not odorless) and give it another go, very slowly..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 06:43 PM

Hey Exit
I am using odorless mineral spirits from Ace. I seriously tried to scratch my car again, and nothing.
Maybe is the color. As far I can remember everybody is using dark colors. You are the only one using a light color.
I bought professional almond paint for my bug. I am going to start to paint tomorrow. I will let you know what happens.

By the way, anybody knows how to get rid of masking tape from the car. The tape have been there a couple of weeks on the trim and now I can not take it out. I have tried alcohol and hot water also (the paint is fine) but does not work.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 07:01 PM

Quote:

Hey Exit
I am using odorless mineral spirits from Ace. I seriously tried to scratch my car again, and nothing.
Maybe is the color. As far I can remember everybody is using dark colors. You are the only one using a light color.
I bought professional almond paint for my bug. I am going to start to paint tomorrow. I will let you know what happens.

By the way, anybody knows how to get rid of masking tape from the car. The tape have been there a couple of weeks on the trim and now I can not take it out. I have tried alcohol and hot water also (the paint is fine) but does not work.




Maybe try WD40 or mineral spirits to take the tape off?

As far as the type of mineral spirits.. I think my scratch problem has to do with the coats underneath not drying enough before I put coats over them. So I gotta try it keeping it real thin and give it "24 hours" (according to the rustoleum guy) to dry, and not using odorless spirits would make it dry even quicker.

I have tried that small batch of red paint, with penetrol (no mineral spirits in there) and I can scratch that as well - but I did apply it fairly thick as you can see on that one picture, that was the only coat.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 07:55 PM

taking off masking tape residue, wd40, gooe gone, mineralspirits, all work good, a good linty rag helps too.

EXIT1965 - i'm begining to think that your an android, and have finger nails that are made of high-strenght metal composite made of unobtainium that is not from this plannet!!! i don't know what to say about your problem, definetly don't use the low-odur spirits, use the cheap stuff that stinks the worst. the time after you paint does'nt matter, if it wetsands good then it's fine to re-coat. but i know if i tried up to a month after painting i'm sure with enough force i could scratch the paint but not totally strip it for sure. maybe you should have never tried to scratch it off, i'd bet you'd be happy, and maybe after 4-6 months you would'nt be able to scratch it at all. i dunno, i'm sticking with my android theory lol
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 08:21 PM

I wonder how long it will take before the customer service get a tab in the manual about "auto painting".

I am soooo itching to get on this. I hate having to wait for the paint and wait for the garage to become available.

I agree that "linting" the masking tape before putting it on the car helps. Maybe if the above doesnt help, use a blow dryer. I have had some bad experiences with goo gone and its bretherin. It takes stickers off yes, but leaves the sticky residue and that can take several wipes to get it out. If you go this route, use a rag, not something like a paper towel otherwise you will get pieces of the towel ALL OVER.

Speaking of heat, anyone know how well the paint holds up on the hood or in the engine bay? I wonder if it can get too hot and cause things to happen to the paint.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 08:28 PM

Quote:



Speaking of heat, anyone know how well the paint holds up on the hood or in the engine bay? I wonder if it can get too hot and cause things to happen to the paint.




if you know anything about Air cooled VW Beetles, you'll know that those engines run really damm hot, the exhaust is right under the rear apron in the back, 6yrs, no issues with the paint/heat on my 74 beetle. on my dads 71 dark blue beetle in the pics, the single stage is holding up to the heat, but you can see it's a bit dried out. the heat in old beetle in the back and under the engine lid is insane, you could run a set of headders on a mopar 1" from the paint with no issues, heck i'd even bet it would live on headders. i have yet to see a vw beetle painted with BC/CC survive on the back of a VW, almost allways cracks after a few months. heat is not a issue, you will never see the heat in a mopar engine compartment as you would in a old VW, they run oil temps of about 220-240*deg F, and the engine compartment ambient temps reach well over what you would see in a mopar, don't forget they are air cooled, there's no rad, just a oil cooler.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 10:38 PM

I wonder what had happen with those guys that got the idea from here, started painting their cars, posted a couple of pictures and then... GONE!
I am talking about the light blue bug in England, or the other one that used grey color and Penetrol. Did they succeed, and are very happy driving with brand new paint?, Or something went wrong. At least they should post how everything turned out and show a couple of photos.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 10:39 PM

Quote:

I read online that low odor/odorless evaporates slower.


Baku, what type of mineral spirits were you using?

Just got off the phone with Rustoleum. He said he didn't think the mineral spirit type had anything to do with my scratchability. He also said in quarts, there is no VOC limit so the rustoleum product here is the exact same as the rustoleum product elsewhere in the US. He advised me that perhaps I was putting the paint on too thick, and that the surface was drying but under the surface, it was not dry and the solvents never escaped and so it could be scratchable for eternity.

I really wasn't putting it on that thick, but perhaps I didn't wait long enough between coats, or long enough after wetsanding. I'll try to find some regular mineral spirits (or at least not odorless) and give it another go, very slowly..




HOly cow! I have been using LOW-ODOR MINERAL SPIRIT AS-WELL!.....mayb thats why i'm getting soo many BUBBLES...
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 10:58 PM

Well Baku if your stuff is unscratchable with low odor, then full-odor stuff should be bulletproof. I'm going to pick some up tonight.

I read more than once online that odorless takes longer to dry, and to use it when you want to be able to work with a paint longer. I'm hoping that using odorless, combined with humidity and cool temperautes, meant my layers weren't drying well enough between applications and thats why they were scratchable for me.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 11:03 PM

Quote:

Well Baku if your stuff is unscratchable with low odor, then full-odor stuff should be bulletproof. I'm going to pick some up tonight.

I read more than once online that odorless takes longer to dry, and to use it when you want to be able to work with a paint longer. I'm hoping that using odorless, combined with humidity and cool temperautes, meant my layers weren't drying well enough between applications and thats why they were scratchable for me.




We've SOLVED THE MYSTERY HOLMES, WE"VE DONE IT!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 11:06 PM

Hey Exit
You could try with acetone, when I used it I had the problem that dry to fast and there was no time to work the paint properly.
I had this problem, but I was painting outside under the Florida sun at 85F degrees. Maybe could works indoors and with low temperatures.
Also is the thinner recommended for the rustoleum professional.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 11:22 PM

Here are my results.

BEFORE





AFTER









Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 11:26 PM

Thats with Rustoleum Proffessional with mineral spirits. Hard as a rock, before the 6 hour period, i can only imagine how strong itll be after a few weeks.

Tried with full pressure on my nail and no scratch, so i guess thats a good thing. or i jus thave weak nails. haha.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 11:31 PM

Quote:

Thats with Rustoleum Proffessional with mineral spirits. Hard as a rock, before the 6 hour period, i can only imagine how strong itll be after a few weeks.

Tried with full pressure on my nail and no scratch, so i guess thats a good thing. or i jus thave weak nails. haha.




Looks good. That is the gloss white? Also did you use regular mineral spirits or low odor/odorless?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/07/06 11:34 PM

white is THE best color, looks good on virtually any car, and hides everything, if you took your time with white, made it perfect, you'd eaisly pull off show-quality paint.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 12:04 AM

Quote:

Hey Exit
I am using odorless mineral spirits from Ace. I seriously tried to scratch my car again, and nothing.
Maybe is the color. As far I can remember everybody is using dark colors. You are the only one using a light color.
I bought professional almond paint for my bug. I am going to start to paint tomorrow. I will let you know what happens.

By the way, anybody knows how to get rid of masking tape from the car. The tape have been there a couple of weeks on the trim and now I can not take it out. I have tried alcohol and hot water also (the paint is fine) but does not work.




Superchango - I used the gloss white for the stripes on the Beer Fridge. Other than the paint appearing to be "thicker" right out of the can, I didn't notice any difference once it was mixed down.

BTW - Exit - I have to amend my statement from this morning: Sitting here in the garage, I see now that I have been using the "odorless" mineral spirits after all. Still, I think you're on the right track - with the low temperatures you have (had), and the odorless spirits, it's very possible that the spirits were not getting enough time to properly evaporate between coats, or even getting trapped in the paint because it was too thick. I say it's worth another try - if you still have paint left over, you got nothing to lose and potentially alot to gain. Remember, even in the dead off winter here (S.FL), it is still very warm and the humidity is much higher than the rest of the country. I'm hoping that speaks well if I decide to paint over the summer, although that's not likely.

69 - I'll agree that white is probably the best color to paint if you have imperfections to hide. I just can't get over the idea that it's a "chick" color for a car!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 12:05 AM

I just tried scratching real hard a couple times on a spot with my thumb on black tremclad with regular mineral spirits on my test panel with only 2 overdiluted coats over it. It did leave markings but only noticeable at an angle. I'd imagine if it was polished and everything you could easily buff it away. That section had 24 hours of dry time.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 12:51 AM

uhm, im using an odorless mineral spirits made by clean strip. and yeah thats the gloss white in the rustoleum proffesional line.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 12:58 AM

sweeeeeeeeet. i just picked up the fire red? cuz the ppl at crappy tire are retards and didnt know how to mix up sunrise red =\ and had a book with all the codes etc for paints but no paint colors just "500" series numbers. plus i just picked up a HVLP gun from princess auto for :drumroll: $25 bucks =) im gonna paint one fender and roll the other and see the outcome...gonna do it this weekend unless i swap my engine and i'll post pics =)
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 01:01 AM

I stopped by a Sherwin Williams only to see them charging 12.99 for a gallon of odorous mineral spirits, so I'll have to find some tomorrow at a more realistic price. Went to home depot too, and they didn't have any non odorless, but I did pick up a tiny container of gloss black to play around with.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 01:27 AM

FWIW, when I was painting my car (done now, pics soon.) I never rolled the coats right after the other. I would do one coat at night and roll the next coat probably 12 hours later. I stopped rolling thurs and the paint is already hard and not easily scratchable. This is done in ~40F weather indoors no heat.

I rolled the first two coats with the aluminum, then sanded with 800, and rolled the final 3 coats with light machine gray. After that I stopped cause it looked so damn good! I have yet to sand with 1500 and polish, gonna wait on that since I need to give up the garage I'm using. It still looks damn good and shiny. When I run my hand over the paint it feels sooo smooth except for the tiny pieces of dust spread randomly, maybe like 3 pieces per 10 in by 10 in area.
At least twice today when I was working on the car my jack banged into the door and I jumped cause the paint but when I looked: NOTHING!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 01:38 AM

Is there a VOC number on your gallon of machine grey paint?

Please post those pics!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 03:12 AM

HVLP gun $25.00

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 05:24 AM

Quote:

HVLP gun $25.00






Have you ever sprayed a car before?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 05:28 AM

Hey 'Charger! Very interesting animal you let loose here! I ought to try this on my ride once the weather improves. Question: You think this would work on refinishing aluminum wheels? Any change in procedures you'd recommend?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 05:38 AM

Where would I find the VOC number, is there a list of ingredients or something? I havent spent much time looking at the can.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 06:43 AM

Quote:

Stevo911 - definitely interested in your clearcoat find. Let us know what you can about it; test results, photos, whatever!

I found this on the net:
http://www.zero-rust.com/crystal-coat.html
I take it this is the clear coat you are referring to? Haven't read the info yet, but will dig into it tonight.




Yeah thats the stuff, as soon as I get going on the project I'll bombard you guys with pics/info/etc...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 06:47 AM

Quote:

Tremclad sells clear coat, that's uv resistant, ect...



I was going to use the Treamclad clearcoat, but I was looking at the can and on the back in bold letters it says "not for automotive use", I talked to the guy at the shop, who's been really helpful as he uses tremclad to paint cars all the time (albeit spraying it on), and he said its not nearly durable enough for cars, as cars are an everyday use object that take quite a punishment. I then looked into using clearcoats for boats, as thats roll on too, but that stuff:
1) has a yellow tint to it (though if you apply it thin it doesnt show)
2) Isnt as durable still as auto clearcoat (its formulated to be UV and salt resistant though)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 06:58 AM

Quote:

Hey 'Charger! Very interesting animal you let loose here! I ought to try this on my ride once the weather improves. Question: You think this would work on refinishing aluminum wheels? Any change in procedures you'd recommend?



I'd be careful with aluminum wheels as aluminum has different bonding properties. If you're gonna paint right on the aluminum use a zinc chromate primer (made to prime aluminum specifically)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 07:30 AM

Clear coat?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AUTO-PAIN...itemZ4629371654
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 07:49 AM

I found the House of Color online manuals if anybody is interested.
Here is the all in one:

http://www.houseofkolor.com/hok/PDF/TechData/English/ALLTD.pdf

And the directory for all of them:

http://www.houseofkolor.com/hok/PDF/TechData/English/
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 03:30 PM

Quote:

Where would I find the VOC number, is there a list of ingredients or something? I havent spent much time looking at the can.




I'm not exactly sure, it could be in the small print on the back somewhere, or right in the front. I was looking at some Industrial rustoleum and it said something about <340 VOC, but that maybe only something they highlight for the industrial, but not the professional line. On a quart container I have of rustoleum professional, it said 450 VOC in the small print on the back.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 04:42 PM

Quote:

Hey 'Charger! Very interesting animal you let loose here! I ought to try this on my ride once the weather improves. Question: You think this would work on refinishing aluminum wheels? Any change in procedures you'd recommend?




on alluminum wheels i used tremclad silver wheel paint in a spray can, just sand the wheels until really smooth and then spray it on, worked great on a old oldsmobile i had. depends on the finish you're looking for, that machined look you cannot do, but just silver paint, use the wheel paint.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 04:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Tremclad sells clear coat, that's uv resistant, ect...



I was going to use the Treamclad clearcoat, but I was looking at the can and on the back in bold letters it says "not for automotive use", I talked to the guy at the shop, who's been really helpful as he uses tremclad to paint cars all the time (albeit spraying it on), and he said its not nearly durable enough for cars, as cars are an everyday use object that take quite a punishment. I then looked into using clearcoats for boats, as thats roll on too, but that stuff:
1) has a yellow tint to it (though if you apply it thin it doesnt show)
2) Isnt as durable still as auto clearcoat (its formulated to be UV and salt resistant though)




well i'm sure they say the paint is not for automotive use either, but think about it, that clear coat is made to be painted on brass mail boxes, over the rust paint, and that sits in the elements 24/7 and never really gets washed/waxed, ect....so i see no reason why it would'nt work on a car, they're just stating their disclamer so nobody sues them when they paint their car with it and then realize that it's not for cars.. but the clear coat is very durable, just like the paint.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 07:01 PM

I rolled on my first coat of black, rustoleum professional, thinned with standard stinky mineral spirits from kelly moore.

It seems that each color will have its own properties in terms of how much it should be thinned, how thin it gets, how much it covers right away. It seemed to cover very well on my first roll over, but I may have some drips to wetsand out. We'll see in a few minutes how it decides to lay out. I'm going to wait the full 24 hours before putting another coat on, then 24 hours before wetsanding that, etc just to be on the very safe side. Temperature in the garage is about 65 or so, and it's not raining so the environmental variables should be OK.

By the way when they say you need the body straight to paint it black, they aint lying..

Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 08:36 PM

looks good exit, but black is hard to do.

i allways wondered what happens after 25 pages lol, notice in the index listing it does'nt display after 25 pages???

cool
Posted By: Pool Fixer

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 08:57 PM

Mine only shows 25 when I am not logged in...strange. More pics!!!!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 10:02 PM

Quote:

looks good exit, but black is hard to do.

i allways wondered what happens after 25 pages lol, notice in the index listing it does'nt display after 25 pages???

cool




Hard to do how? Because of straightness?? The stuff has laid down really flat since that picture, it's going on nice.
Posted By: The Avg. Valiant

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 11:18 PM

Has anyone used Kirker epoxy primer before? What do you recommend for a good expoxy primer?
Thanks
Jacob
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/08/06 11:26 PM

UGH!

So many choices of rustoleum here

I cant figure which is the right one. Their site isnt much help

Anyone have a home depot part number for the correct tintable base?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 12:00 AM

I've been watching this thread from the beginning and decided to test it myself. It came out real good and was real easy. I included some pics. Just need to finish polishing a little more.

Attached picture 2539345-IMG_2802.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 12:02 AM

Here is another pic.

Attached picture 2539349-IMG_2805.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 12:37 AM

Quote:

I've been watching this thread from the beginning and decided to test it myself. It came out real good and was real easy. I included some pics. Just need to finish polishing a little more.




DEAR GOD! thats like looking into a mirror! How many coats did you do? And you got no bubbles at all? Is that black paint? how'd u get it to lay without any orange peels?

I went to home-depot today and they only sold ODERLESS MINERAL-SPIRIT then i drove 5 MILES to LOWES and they only sold LOW-ODOR MINERAL-SPIRIT. >.<"" cant seem to find the regular one.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 12:54 AM

I did 7 coats I only got few tiny bubbles. I used regular mineral spirts on mine and the paint rock hard after just a few days. The black is hard to do but after testing I figured out that after you do the sixth coat wet sand lightly with 600 grit and do one more singlecoat then go straight to 2000 grit. Because if you don't and wet sand too much and into the next layer of paint it will leave little shiny rings in the paint that you can't buff out. I polished it with the turtle wax polish with the buffer then hand buffed with meguiars mirrior gaze #7. I included another pic.

Attached picture 2539474-IMG_2798.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 01:16 AM

Hey. Looks great. I posted awhile back, and am now about to this point. I put on 6 coats only, but have to agree 7 would be better. I wet sanded to 2000 grit, buffed with Turtle Wax Polish Compound, I am very satisified with the results. I think the 7th coat would held with sand thru on edges etc. I did sand thru on a couple of spots but just sanded again with 2000, applied 2 more coats of paint, let dry, sand and polish. Now I am waiting to use Meguires Mirror Glaze #7, and the in about another month wax. I believe that the paint outgasses for about 3 months.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 01:36 AM

When I first did it I wet sanded with 1000, 1500, then 2000 grit after the sixth coat but the 1000 cut too fast and cut through some layers of paint. When I buffed it out it left little shiny rings from the paint being shiny under the top layer. So I wet sanded it with 600 then did 2 more coats then wet sanded with 600 again then did one more single coat then went to 2000. To answer Bakaryu other question mix the paint real thin until it is just like water and you will not have hardly any orange peel or buubbles.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 01:45 AM

Looks great Jeff. I am hoping my test piece comes out the same way - I'll try what you said and do 600 at the end then 2000.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 01:47 AM

Jeff - how long did you wait between coats or between coating and wetsanding?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 01:58 AM

I waited about 7-8 hours between coats and wet sanding I also put a lamp on it to help it dry faster. Before I wetsanded it I felt it to make sure it was dry and pretty hard, if it felt hard I pulled my thumb across it hard to make sure it was hard enough to sand.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 02:58 AM

How does the paint hold up to water spots?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 03:03 AM

k... so everything was going well until it started raining. my project is in the garage so it doesn't actually get rained on, but the last coat i put on after it started raining will not harden all the way, its hard to the touch and dry enough to wetsand, but when i pull my fingernail across it, it digs in really deep. Its had almost three days to harden yet still scratches easily. before it started raining out here the paint was hardening to scratch resistance in about 24 hrs. I'm pretty sure this stuff doesn't like humidity. well.... now i'll probably strip back to the primer with the DA sander and start all over.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 03:22 AM

Water spots wiped right off for me. It sounds like the layer of paint right before your last one wasn't dry enough. If your doing a test piece try using a lamp when your drying the paint. If your doing a bigger piece try letting it dry longer between coats and make sure it hard before you paint the next coat. You might want to try wet sanding some of the layers off with 600 grit and start over.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 03:40 AM

Quote:

k... so everything was going well until it started raining. my project is in the garage so it doesn't actually get rained on, but the last coat i put on after it started raining will not harden all the way, its hard to the touch and dry enough to wetsand, but when i pull my fingernail across it, it digs in really deep. Its had almost three days to harden yet still scratches easily. before it started raining out here the paint was hardening to scratch resistance in about 24 hrs. I'm pretty sure this stuff doesn't like humidity. well.... now i'll probably strip back to the primer with the DA sander and start all over.




Not true, i did my firs two sloppy coats on the buddha while it was raining and it was cold at night in a garage and painted the second coat nextday about 14hours later and it was rock solid.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 04:13 AM

Chopstic, did you use standard mineral spirits or low odor/odorless?

I just painted with standard mineral spirits today and it hasn't been 10 hours, the paint feels very hard and hard to scratch so far; of course it's not cool or humid here, but I think there's a connection between drying time and mineral spirit type..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 02:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

looks good exit, but black is hard to do....




Hard to do how? Because of straightness?? The stuff has laid down really flat since that picture, it's going on nice.




Not hard as in any difference in painting technique (although I agree with you that different tints seem to have different thicknesses out of the can), but hard as in getting a desirable final effect. By it's very nature, black paint is the most reflective color you can paint a car. It reflects EVERYTHING, which also means it is going to "show off" every imperfection in the bodywork (dents/dimples/ripples/scratches/etc).

JeffS, Cole - excellent contributions to the thread! JeffS - amazing results! I also thank you for the advice on the final sanding, I think the "rings" I got on the beer fridge are exactly what you described, but I had no clue what caused them. If I could ever manage to get my garage CLEAN ENOUGH, I might even consider just doing one final uber-thin coat with no final wetanding as the gloss properties are so nice. Unfortunately, I cant seem to lay down a coat without managing to attract at least one dog hair! Oh well.

Cole - lookin forward to the photos. I have a few to post of the mower project later on today.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 02:46 PM

Yeah I know the body has got to be nice for black.. the good thing about this process is if you see a problem you don't like, just sand it off, fix it and repaint

My black paint has dried nicely and is mostly unscratchable -- actually the only place it is scratchable is on the edges of things, and I believe that is because the paint is thicker in those places so it doesn't dry at the same rate or to the same hardness as where the layer is thin.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 04:03 PM

EXIT where did you buy your mineral spirit. I've been to 6 STORES so far and none of them sell regular mineral spirit all of them have LOW-ODOR and ODORLESS, i went to sherwin-williams just now and they only had a 5GALLON Bucket for 30.40$ the dude on the counter said paint thinner is the same thing and it was a gallon. I read on the back of it and it said
"contains: Petrolium *something* (Mineral SPirit 7153-45-3323"
Is that the same stuff? Home Depot only has odorless and Lowes only has Low-Odor. Can one of you take a picture of yours?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 04:27 PM

Quote:

EXIT where did you buy your mineral spirit. I've been to 6 STORES so far and none of them sell regular mineral spirit all of them have LOW-ODOR and ODORLESS, i went to sherwin-williams just now and they only had a 5GALLON Bucket for 30.40$ the dude on the counter said paint thinner is the same thing and it was a gallon. I read on the back of it and it said
"contains: Petrolium *something* (Mineral SPirit 7153-45-3323"
Is that the same stuff? Home Depot only has odorless and Lowes only has Low-Odor. Can one of you take a picture of yours?




I got it for 6.50 a gallon or so at Kelly Moore. The label says PAINT THINNER (100% Mineral Spirits), so as long as it's 100% mineral spirits, it might just be called PAINT THINNER. But i've seen paint thinner that says "made with mineral spirits" which I would stay away from since it's not 100%.

Sherwin williams over here had 100% mineral spirits too, but they wanted 12.99 a gallon.. highway robbery. I say get on the phone and call some paint places. too bad there doesnt seem to be a kelly moore in your area.Or maybe check and see if Startex has a website and a dealer locator.

Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 04:55 PM

JEFF - awesome results, it all goes to show that if you take your time and prep the area good and take the time to polish/wetsand that you can acheive show quality results. i never took it that far, just about 75% to your work, allthough i know i could have i just wanted to drive my car sooo damm bad it was'nt funny!!! plus my car is not a show car and i never intended it to be, i drive it hard and ALOT, i just went crusin last night for about 150mi, and about $40 worth of gas, damm 440 and gas prices!!!! very good job jeff, if i had the time and not as many hobbies then i'd go all out mental and have a perfect paint job, just goes to show that it's possible to acheive almost show quality results. the # of coats you did and the time you took, obviously you have the "hang" of it, and have what it takes to turn out a killer paint job. i can't wait to see you at a cruise night or a show and tell people "ya, i rollered it on with tremclad/rustoleum!!!!" and see the look on their faces.............that's priceless.

EXIT1965 - black is the hardest color just because it shows all flaws in the reflection, if the body is'nt perfectly straight you'll see every wave and imperfection, unlike bright lighter colors and for example white, which hides all imperfections. black takes 3 times the amount of work regardless of what paint tequnique you use, just make sure your car is arrow straight before going black, or you'll be unhappy with the end result, nothing worse than seeing a black car with poor prep, if you dare to do black make it 100% or don't do it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 05:33 PM

Thanks, for all the replies, I chose the black to test because of the reflective qualities. I think the hardest part of painting is the final wetsanding and polishing especially with black because it shows every little scratch. With a lighter color it will be alot easier to polish. Now that I got it down I plan on paintiing my 69 chevy truck as soon as I finish the body work and possibly my 69 camaro.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 09:03 PM

69charger-

Great thread! I am thinking of trying this method to paint a hood. I am a little hesitant to use rust oleum and will instead be using a marine high gloss oil based paint.


do you find that after the paint has cured and the car has been exposed to the elements for a while it holds up pretty good??

Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 09:28 PM

I was talking with my dad yesterday and he said that you could get a good paint job with the rustoleum like so many have done so far. He was just a little worried how it would hold up being in the sun. His past experiences with it is that it fades pretty bad. 69Charger, is that why you have to polish a few times a year? I'm still making slow progress on my test hood and will post pictures when I'm done.
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 10:25 PM

Could you paint over chrome? I have some old cheap chrome wheels that are rusted and would look a lot better with paint.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/09/06 11:19 PM

guys, think about what this paint is made for, steel lawn furnature, mail boxes, wheel barrows, steel railing and fences, does this stuff ever even get wax? or polished???? and the stuff sits out side all the time. i only have polished once, after painting and final wetsanding, then i wax 2 times a year, 1 spring, and 1 fall, that's it, just like any other auto paint. the stuff is tough as nails, it never went dull at all on my cars. also you can paint over chrome, just sand the chrome really good, until all the shine is removed. and yes tomgunns, the paint holds up extreemly well to the elements, my 85 honda CRX was the first car i painted with tremclad about 12yrs ago, i drove that car 300000kms with a black tremclad paintjob that was'nt even polished, and it's survived 3 canadian winters with tonns of salt, ect....no issues, if only i did'nt crash that car

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 12:43 AM

When I was cleaning up the stuff I used to paint with I pulled off the plastic wrap I used in the paint tray as a paint tray liner. I decided to check out the flexability of paint so I balled it up a few times and streched it and it never chipped, cracked, or peeled off the plastic wrap. I never seen a paint flex that much and be that hard on metal before. If you plan on painting plastic or urethane bumpers or spoilers this paint should work awesome with out cracking chipping or peeling.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 12:47 AM

Another day with no luck in finding 100% Mineral Spirit only Low-Odor and Odorless.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 12:59 AM

I think it will work fine with the odorless because you said before that your paint felt hard. Just make sure it's dry good and hard before paint another coat.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 01:00 AM

I picked up a 1/2 pint of "Smoke grey gloss" and to my disappointment, it looks just like primer grey. Not sure if I'll do a little area with it or not. Black may be out of the question for my whole car, maybe I'll try that canvas white..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 01:28 AM

If you don't like the color as soon as you took the lid off you should take it back. When I was at Home Depot the other week I found out that they can tint the paint there and they had a little paint card sheet with over 100 tintable colors and some of the colors are pretty good. You should check Home Depot for one of those sheets if they don't have any I can mail you one just email me.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 02:03 AM

Jeff-I'm definately taking the smoke grey color back, didn't match the color on the label at all.

Was the color card you saw specifically for rustoleum stuff, or for all paints? I saw at one home depot today they had industrial Labor Saver "masstone tint base" in gloss. I'm guessing that's what they would tint, but I'm not sure if they can put the same stuff they use in house paint, but i'm not sure.

I'd sure like to see a silverish grey color on a test area.. the silvers I see on cars seem like they have some metallic in them so I wonder how a non metallic silver would turn out.

I opened up my can of Canvas white, which if I go with a white, it will be this one.. it's the taped off area in the pic. it's less yellow than the almond. looks nice but I'd like to get my mitts on some silver and it could be i have to get a gallon and have it tinted to do that.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 02:24 AM

The color card I got is just for the rust-oleum it says it's for quarts or gallons of rust-oleum.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 03:22 AM

I took and scaned the color card heres a pic of the front.

Attached picture 2542200-colors2.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 03:23 AM

Heres a pic of the back.

Attached picture 2542207-colors1.jpg
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 03:35 AM

Thanks

What color do you think you'll end up painting your cars?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 03:42 AM

I was planning on painting my truck two-tone wedgewood blue and white I'm still not sure about the color for the camaro.
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 06:37 AM

Here is my hood after the fifth coat I think.

Attached picture 2542505-HPIM0095.JPG
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 06:39 AM

another shot

Attached picture 2542508-HPIM0096.JPG
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 06:40 AM

here is another shot

Attached picture 2542510-HPIM0097.JPG
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 06:41 AM

one more

Attached picture 2542512-HPIM0098.JPG
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 06:43 AM

This is in really bad lighting at night. I think those spots in the pictures are from the camera. When I'm all done, I'll take it out in the sun and take some pictures because it looks better then what the pictures show.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 12:00 PM

I have been following this forum from the start, and it looks like the Chevy trucks are taking over I too plan on painting my 1970 GMC pickup the roller way since the cost of restoration will leave me with no money for a bought paint job. I plan on painting the individual parts before reassembly and possibly a final coat and wetsand after it is put back together to even out any missmatched panels.The real challenge may be the painting of the interior and dash. I may try the HVLP gun and rustoleum for that.

Bob
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 04:52 PM

JeffS - EXCELLENT! I have two gallons of the Masstone Tint Base but the local HD paint guys were a little iffy when I asked what colors they could make for me. I'll print this chart out and ask them if they have the same on file. I'm still not sure what color I want, but this will definitely help.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 05:02 PM

Quote:

JeffS - EXCELLENT! I have two gallons of the Masstone Tint Base but the local HD paint guys were a little iffy when I asked what colors they could make for me. I'll print this chart out and ask them if they have the same on file. I'm still not sure what color I want, but this will definitely help.




Rick, I never went to the paint counter at HD to ask about tinting the masstone base, but I am not confident that they'll necessarily know what the heck they're doing. Your statement that they seemed "iffy" just reinforces that. If you have a place in your town that sells industrial paints, they can probably tint it there.

I was at home depot looking at the gallon of masstone tint base, and it says max VOC 400. Well right now, in california there is a 350 VOC limit. Maybe it's just old stock so if I get some I should do it quick.. but you know the can said thin with Acetone only. It said not to thin for rolling (not that we would listen to them!) but I wonder if mineral spirits would be OK with the stuff.
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 05:08 PM

Quote:

JeffS - EXCELLENT! I have two gallons of the Masstone Tint Base but the local HD paint guys were a little iffy when I asked what colors they could make for me. I'll print this chart out and ask them if they have the same on file. I'm still not sure what color I want, but this will definitely help.




Don't forget they can special order colors direct from Rustoleum as well. If you worry about the mixing ability, just order your selected color directly.
I had them special order Harbor Blue and I just picked it up today. Hopefully, I'll be diving in tonight!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 05:33 PM

Hey eXIT i found it! Finally at a REGAL PAINT STORE, the company is called 5STAR and its called PAINT THINNER, 100% MINERAL SPIRIT. : now i'm excited to get back on my buddha civic hahaha.
Posted By: batjac

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 06:55 PM

Hey, Chopstic! I'm across the river in Hillsboro. When you get yours done, I'll have to come take a look. I'm thinking about this for my '79 Camaro project.

Mark
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 07:35 PM

Quote:

This is in really bad lighting at night. I think those spots in the pictures are from the camera. When I'm all done, I'll take it out in the sun and take some pictures because it looks better then what the pictures show.



I think it looks pretty good even in this light. Is this after all the steps and polish, or is the hood still wet? Wow!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/10/06 08:24 PM

It's looking good dalbers what step in the paint process are you at.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/11/06 12:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

JeffS - EXCELLENT! I have two gallons of the Masstone Tint Base but the local HD paint guys were a little iffy when I asked what colors they could make for me. I'll print this chart out and ask them if they have the same on file. I'm still not sure what color I want, but this will definitely help.




Rick, I never went to the paint counter at HD to ask about tinting the masstone base, but I am not confident that they'll necessarily know what the heck they're doing. Your statement that they seemed "iffy" just reinforces that. If you have a place in your town that sells industrial paints, they can probably tint it there.

I was at home depot looking at the gallon of masstone tint base, and it says max VOC 400. Well right now, in california there is a 350 VOC limit. Maybe it's just old stock so if I get some I should do it quick.. but you know the can said thin with Acetone only. It said not to thin for rolling (not that we would listen to them!) but I wonder if mineral spirits would be OK with the stuff.




Exit
Remember that I used acetone (like the professional stuff says) and did not work because dried to quickly. I found out that the same company that makes the mineral spirits that you bought (Startex)also makes M.E.K (methyl ethyl ketone) they said this is the same that acetone but evaporates slower, this helps with the "self leveling" of the paint
Startex products
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/11/06 02:55 AM

Thanks Superchango. I think I'll stick with a stock color like canvas white, that way I can buy the matching rattlecans too.

That canvas white I put on last night, 24 hours ago, is still tacky! The weather here has been cool and rainy most of those 24 hours, so I think that the weather is to blame.

Thinking back, I posted a picture of professional almond color where some stuff had come to the surface and peeled away the paint-- what I think it was is not some oil trapped on the surface, but the mineral spirits themselves trying to get out on wet coats that I put more coats over. Had I let it dry long enough, that wouldn't have happened I am betting. It seeems to explain the scratchability too- I was leaving anywhere from 8-10 hours between coats, in this foul weather, and I know I put paint over tacki surfaces before too.

Case in point, I now have 2 coats of the black rustoleum on, which I put on during fair, dry weather, and it is unscratchable. The first coat was very dry, and had no tackiness whatsoever when I put the 2nd coat on. Now both coats are dry, and it's "tough as nails".

Sorry I doubted people's inability to scratch the stuff, I really needed to wait more than the 8-12 hours before recoats in the weather I was painting in. I don't have super alien fingernails after all..


Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/11/06 04:23 AM

Quote:

Hey, Chopstic! I'm across the river in Hillsboro. When you get yours done, I'll have to come take a look. I'm thinking about this for my '79 Camaro project.




My test subject is actually a honda civic which i converted to race in the 4-cyl division over at River-city-speeedway in St Helens, OR. I've been taking my time painting, but racing starts up here in about a month so the painting might get a bit rushed. If the Honda turns out good i'm going to use the rustoleum on my 78 datsun 280z, and i'll definetly take my time painting painting her.
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/11/06 07:38 AM

My last pictures were after the fifth coat, still wet. I think i'm going to do a couple more coats before I polish it like others have done. It is looking pretty promising.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/11/06 03:32 PM

There's a big thread about this over on a honda site-

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1555133&page=11

On that page, a guy is using a Glidden "ultra hide" paint he got from home depot when the home depot guy told him it was the same as rustoleum but they could mix any color. Here is a pic of the can:





I havent seen the stuff at my home depot, but i haven't looked that hard either. anyone else seen it?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/11/06 04:34 PM

Called my home depot and they DO have this glidden alkyd gloss in gallons and quarts, tintable. But it also says on the website that the color may yellow if not exposed to sunlight.

And I found this online, where a guy painted his interior cabinets with the same stuff, and in 6 months it yellowed. I think this stuff is not a good idea for a garaged car! Back to rustoleum..

http://www.diybanter.com/showthread.php?t=62871
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/11/06 05:05 PM

So has anyone else tried out the penetrol to completion on a test piece?

I have some of that, took back the oderless mineral spirits, and now I am wondering if I should take the penetrol back and get the stinky mineral spirites.

I would test the penetrol myself but I am really gonna only have a small window to use space and doing tests now is not gonna happen for me.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/11/06 05:25 PM

I dont know if there's a benefit to using penetrol at 9.00 a can. It says it's main use is to allow the paint to flow and level better, but that is what the mineral spirits are for. The penetrol does mention adhesion, but it says that it increases adhesion with primers. And I think if you're using mineral spirits, allowing time to dry between coats, and using thin coats, adhesion is not a concern anyways.

Im not saying it would hurt, but I don't know of a benefit of it over mineral spirits for this.
Posted By: Q5RR

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/11/06 05:27 PM

Trying to match Q5 (seafoam green or bright turquoise metallic), I bought a quart of turquoise rustoleum at HD using the masstone tintbase last week. It is close but a little too dark.

Is there much difference in the color of the two tint bases? If they can custom match your sample using Glidden, and the tint bases are the same color, why not have them tint a quart of rustoleum using the Glidden formula. It might be worth a try.

Chris
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/11/06 07:42 PM

Q5RR,
Let us know how that turquoise Rustoleum works out. I'm thinking about going down to HD in the next couple of days to pick up a gallon tinted the same color to paint my '66 Mustang (original color is 'Tahoe Turquoise').

- Ian
Posted By: MikeP

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/11/06 07:45 PM


Quote:

Called my home depot and they DO have this glidden alkyd gloss in gallons and quarts, tintable.




How accurate can they do a color match ? I assume by eyeballing a color chip correct?
(no spectro photometer)(color eye)
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/11/06 07:54 PM

Quote:


Quote:

Called my home depot and they DO have this glidden alkyd gloss in gallons and quarts, tintable.




How accurate can they do a color match ? I assume by eyeballing a color chip correct?
(no spectro photometer)(color eye)




I dont know about home depot, but walmart has a little eye they put a chip up to, and it matches. I assume hope depot has at least that.

With the glidden, I worry about the yellowing it talks about. I see on some sites that all oil based/alkyd enamels will yellow without light, so if true, the rustoleum would do that too. Can't find info on what "without light" means in terms of how much light it needs, but I haven't found any info on rustoleum yellowing either..
Posted By: Q5RR

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/11/06 08:08 PM

Quote:

Q5RR,
Let us know how that turquoise Rustoleum works out. I'm thinking about going down to HD in the next couple of days to pick up a gallon tinted the same color to paint my '66 Mustang (original color is 'Tahoe Turquoise').

- Ian




I just did a small test panel on the RR hood (it will be a sheet metal donor later this summer. I sanded the current paint with a 180 sanding pad, went to 320 and then 600. Cleaned it with paint thinner and used what I guestimated to be 20% penetrol. The coat had lots of bubbles but they worked out and disappeared when I put no pressure and just used the weight of the roller to smooth it.

After that small area was done, I dumped more Penetrol into the tray ( unkown % mixture maybe 50/50). it was fairly watery. It laid down a little better and bubbles smoothed over quicker.

I will let it dry, do one more coat and post some pictures. In the can the color is dark but it lightened up when spread. It may darken as it dries or with more coats, but I hope not.

Chris
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/11/06 09:53 PM

I asked rustoleum about painting my "washer" with standard white gloss paint, and if it would yellow since it doesn't get much sunlight. Rustoleum says

Quote:

We actually have an Appliance Epoxy that you could also use on your washer. However, our Stops Rust Gloss White will not yellow.


Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/12/06 09:10 PM

Ok, guys i've decided to paint my car GLOSS WHITE NOW, the buddha civic that is. My question is, do i need to wetsand the whole car to its original paint to do the new gloss white or can i just paint it over the gray rust-oleum i was using, I have the whole car wetsanded now and am bout to test paint the hood with this gloss white.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/12/06 09:49 PM

Quote:

Ok, guys i've decided to paint my car GLOSS WHITE NOW, the buddha civic that is. My question is, do i need to wetsand the whole car to its original paint to do the new gloss white or can i just paint it over the gray rust-oleum i was using, I have the whole car wetsanded now and am bout to test paint the hood with this gloss white.




At long as the surface is flat, and the grey paint has completely dried (passes the scratch test!) then I dont see why you couldn't put white over the grey. Keep it thin, let it dry and you should be OK.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/13/06 12:53 AM

Anyone paint something complex like a bumper with lots of holes for air/bumper lights/etc.? I am also wondering about the grill.

I bought some in a spraycan but I wonder if it will last like the stuff in quarts.

My experience with rattlecan jobs (did my car with 7 cans of bbq paint) is that over some time it will fade, chip easy, and is subject to being eaten alive by road salt.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/13/06 01:50 AM

they should be the same thing. But you can spray the stuff in the quarts can if you had the equipment and thinned it enough.
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/13/06 11:18 AM

Well, my paint finally came in to Home Depot two days ago. I had ordered the Rustoleum Stop Rust Gloss Harbor Blue - almost identical to the factory light blue on the Duster.
I rolled on the first coat on the trunk lid last night. It rolled out fairly smoothly. There were some small bubbles, but as suggested, I dragged the roller over the a second time. Just the weight of the roller flattened the bubbles. All in all, the first coat looks fairly smooth as is, although it is very thin. Tonight I'll be adding a second coat. I'll post picutres when I get a few coats on and have done some wet sanding.
I noticed there were two types/brands of foam rollers at Home Depot, I went with the white foam rollers as opposed to the cheaper yellow rollers. There was definitely a difference in density and weight between the two.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/13/06 02:39 PM

If you read the find prints on the roller they will read, SUPER SMOOTH ROLLER or ULTRA SMOOTH ROLLER, lol yea kinda cheesy but thats what they say here in my HD. I saw the yellow one too and it said it was just a normal foam roller, there were other foam rollers but they were either smooth or fine and the third but not the least tucked away on the very top row was "ULTRA SMOOTH ROLLER"
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/13/06 03:19 PM

The ultra smooth white rollers are what I bought. They are self-described as perfect for laying down high gloss paints on smooth surfaces.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/13/06 08:39 PM

Quote:



on alluminum wheels i used tremclad silver wheel paint in a spray can, just sand the wheels until really smooth and then spray it on, worked great on a old oldsmobile i had. depends on the finish you're looking for, that machined look you cannot do, but just silver paint, use the wheel paint.



The tremclad silver is a different product than the other tremclads, its the only one thats formulated to go onto aluminum/topcoat itself (it contains actual aluminum in it, though with excessive touching the pigment comes out. and you'r not supposed to topcoat with clear or anythign because of the aluminum in the paint it wont bond properly
(I was gonna use that paint on my car, but looked into it and no such luck)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/13/06 08:43 PM

they dont actually say anything about the paint. I've been talking with a local guy who does this paint all the time though and its a combination of the heat and durability that makes it not particularly good for auto use. Mailboxes arent getting pelted with dirt and dust and stuff and getting washed on a weekly basis.
Quote:

well i'm sure they say the paint is not for automotive use either, but think about it, that clear coat is made to be painted on brass mail boxes, over the rust paint, and that sits in the elements 24/7 and never really gets washed/waxed, ect....so i see no reason why it would'nt work on a car, they're just stating their disclamer so nobody sues them when they paint their car with it and then realize that it's not for cars.. but the clear coat is very durable, just like the paint.


Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 01:57 AM

Hey. Do as JEFFS says. It works. I would appreciate anyone out there to tell me how to post the pics. of my results. I have a digital camera, the right c.d. on my computer etc. but can't seem to post. Please bear with me as I am a computer idiot, and my 15 year old wiz has better things to do. The easier the better for me. Thanks
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 02:28 AM

Hi guys! Not sure how I stumbled on to this thread but I like it. I have been following since the 19th page and actually started preping my car myself That same day I went to Maccos after work and arrived at 5pm... and they were just leaving so I couldnt get an estimate.. I got an estimate before for 1700$+ .. which I was ready to spend 2k easy... and 3k if I had to :-s

Blah.. so that is my story.. been following you guys through the ups- like Exit's first test and the downs- like Exit's "scratch tests" - and then the ups again.. I figure I will just join now so my name gets here so I dont seem like a quick flash of news when I finish my car.

I have an '89 Camaro IROC Z28. I sanded it down. The paint was bad.. very bad. Rust, oxidization, peeling clearcoat, chips, etc. I also had dents in the metal and cracks in my lights and plastics and fiberglass.

Got 95% of it fixed. I need a few more "touch ups" before I will be satisfied enough to paint. I primed it yesterday because I had a lot of bare metal after sanding it down to get a smooth surface.

I haven't done this stuff before but it is a fun experience. Like I said I have been working on my car since page 19 and DAMN is it so much work!! Just removing the ground fx and stuff was a pain!!

I spent way more than 50$.. maybe around 200 at least. That is because I had to buy tools Seems like everytime I would buy a socket set the next bolt I would need to take off would need a different type of socket not in my set -_-

I have been listing to the mantra that "prep work is everything".. so I have been putting a lot of effort into the prep work. My car is pretty much smooth as glass right now.

I went and got my paint mixed at homedepot today. I got the "Gardenia" color- since they don't color match It is a close match to my original paint but not perfect. It is close enough for me though.

I have one more bondo fix on my car before I paint it and some light sanding to smooth things out a little more- Then I can paint.

I am doing everything outside in an apartment complex parking lot and that has been problematic but surprisingly a lot of people stop and chat with me and say good things. No one has complained to me yet.... it really suprises me because whoever parks next to me gets their car looking like a powder sugar covered donut after I am done sanding. ... but I do wipe down their cars.. and if I make it too messy I'll pay for a carwash for 'em. Anyway- just waiting for good weather before I can paint. I dont want to paint in the parkinglot though. There is a covered garage at the HD and the bottom level isn't really used. I Primed my car there. I think I will go hide there and paint when the time
comes Priming a car with spraypaint cans is easier to explain than rolling a car with can of paint

Ok, Cheers.. I have TONS of pictures of before and current progress- and have 1TB of webspace and 2TB of BW.. so if any videos need to be hosted I can do it.

-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 02:41 AM

To add a picture you can attach it to your post. Just make sure that the "I want to preview my post and/or attach a file" box is checked and then when you submit the next page will show a preview of your message and there will be a "browse" button that you can click to search for the image you want to attach. If your image is already on your PC just navigate to the directory that the image is stored at and click the [ok] button. If the image isn't on your computer yet- but on your camera- that will involve a few more steps. Mainly it would require you to connect your camera to the computer or take out the memory card and stick it in a card reader which you should connect to the computer- Either way you would navigate to the directory that the image is stored at and select it. If you give a deeper explination of why you can't seem to post the image here I am sure someone will have a good fix for you.

Cheers,
-Serpent

P.S. There is a limit on the file size

Attached picture 2552254-IMG_7752b.jpg
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 03:08 AM

Quote:

Hey. Do as JEFFS says. It works. I would appreciate anyone out there to tell me how to post the pics. of my results. I have a digital camera, the right c.d. on my computer etc. but can't seem to post. Please bear with me as I am a computer idiot, and my 15 year old wiz has better things to do. The easier the better for me. Thanks




Cole, do u mean in terms of sanding with 600 before the final coat..? I think that's what Jeff said anyways. I haven't done any painting recently, just doing bodywork..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 03:21 AM

Quote:


I spent way more than 50$.. maybe around 200 at least. That is because I had to buy tools Seems like everytime I would buy a socket set the next bolt I would need to take off would need a different type of socket not in my set -_-

-Serpent




Your in the same boat as me, but i have done body work before. Same boat meaning tool wise. I have done body work on other cars but to such an extent as to this car, then again this car isnt as bad you make yours sound. My car has virtually no rust and only a few dings.

I'm still cracking up about you using the HD Parking Lot, i'f i'm right their garage which isnt really a garage but is just a parking lot underneath right? They allow you to do that? what about at night times no vandals? Good work none the less.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 04:14 AM

Whats the weather like Serpent? I'd be weary about painting it at home depot unless it's really hot down there, if you drive that thing with wet paint you will get tons of crap in it.. and it could be tacky for many hours after you paint it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 12:14 PM

haha, ya.. it is going to be rough... and mostly because they dont "allow" those types of things to take place on their grounds. When I primed it the goof patrol caught me while I was taping up my windows (newspaper and ducktape haha) and I already sprayed one side of the car. They didn't stop.. when I noticed them drive by me I just pretended I was reading the newspaper advertisement... which happened to be for womens underwear..... worked like a charm I should have taken pictures of my car taped up.. good stuff.. But yes it is a covered lower level with good air flow and is dry. Weather has been good the last few days with temps about 70-74 and humidity levels around 35% around 5pm.

Game plane:
Arrive early on a saturday morning and strip my car of mirrors, lights, seals, and window sweeps.

Thin paint and roll like there is no manana.

After first coat take a break for 7 hours... buy somethign at HD so they don't tow me right off the bat...

About 4pm do another coat and hang out for a bit.. wait until 11pm and drive home.

Do another coat next day or next saturday.

This should be interesting..

The alternative is to do it in the apartment parking lot... but I don't know if I can handel all of the people bothering me about me and my roller haha .. I might just do it here though.

To make the situation worse- this is my daily driver.

There my words.

-Serpent

PS.. not sure if you guys checked out Krylon but they have bee around for ever and make rust prevention paints too. Not sure if they have quarts and gallons. I used to use it on my bicycles when I lived in FL.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 12:59 PM

Quote:

haha, ya.. it is going to be rough... and mostly because they dont "allow" those types of things to take place on their grounds. When I primed it the goof patrol caught me while I was taping up my windows (newspaper and ducktape haha) and I already sprayed one side of the car. They didn't stop.. when I noticed them drive by me I just pretended I was reading the newspaper advertisement... which happened to be for womens underwear..... worked like a charm I should have taken pictures of my car taped up.. good stuff.. But yes it is a covered lower level with good air flow and is dry. Weather has been good the last few days with temps about 70-74 and humidity levels around 35% around 5pm.

Game plane:
Arrive early on a saturday morning and strip my car of mirrors, lights, seals, and window sweeps.

Thin paint and roll like there is no manana.

After first coat take a break for 7 hours... buy somethign at HD so they don't tow me right off the bat...

About 4pm do another coat and hang out for a bit.. wait until 11pm and drive home.

Do another coat next day or next saturday.

This should be interesting..

The alternative is to do it in the apartment parking lot... but I don't know if I can handel all of the people bothering me about me and my roller haha .. I might just do it here though.

To make the situation worse- this is my daily driver.

There my words.

-Serpent

PS.. not sure if you guys checked out Krylon but they have bee around for ever and make rust prevention paints too. Not sure if they have quarts and gallons. I used to use it on my bicycles when I lived in FL.




hahaha, you just made my day and i thought i was ghetoo lol. Good plan though. Dont you have any friends who are not using their garage? Ask them if you can use it for like a week. Post pics ;D
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 01:32 PM

Serpent -

FWIW, it sounds like you're already commited but...

I would STRONGLY recommend that you try this method on a test piece first. There is definitely a learning curve to this technique, and unless you've at least tried it out once on something else, ANYTHING else, I think you're going to be unhappy with the results - especially the way you're trying to accomplish it. Don't let all the efforts you've invested so far (time, money and energy doing the prep work) go to waste. If you cant find something to try it out on first (a junkyard door, fender, even an old washer or dryer, ANYTHING...) then do yourself a favor and just work on one section of the car. Hood, fender, even the rear deck lid in your case. Personally, I think a fender is the true test as it has both horizontal and vertical surfaces, creases and curves - a little bit of everything.

JMHO
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 02:56 PM

Quote:

Serpent -

FWIW, it sounds like you're already commited but...

I would STRONGLY recommend that you try this method on a test piece first. There is definitely a learning curve to this technique, and unless you've at least tried it out once on something else, ANYTHING else, I think you're going to be unhappy with the results - especially the way you're trying to accomplish it. Don't let all the efforts you've invested so far (time, money and energy doing the prep work) go to waste. If you cant find something to try it out on first (a junkyard door, fender, even an old washer or dryer, ANYTHING...) then do yourself a favor and just work on one section of the car. Hood, fender, even the rear deck lid in your case. Personally, I think a fender is the true test as it has both horizontal and vertical surfaces, creases and curves - a little bit of everything.

JMHO




I would listen to this man. I'm telling you from experience, i did the same thing as you Serpent, well only that you havent done it yet. I painted my whole cae with no prior experience or a test piece and got my self it to alot of trouble!! Now that i have had experience my new GLOSS WHITE Coat is going on soo smooth, 0 BUBBLES and its laying down excellent with a mirror like finish not to mention Hard as rock and i've only done 1 COAT soo far. The trick like every one has been saying is PUT ON THIN COATS, heres what i've changed from my initial start to now:

A) Instead of having the roller full of paint and then just letting it drip down and then rolling it on to the car (which causes alot of thick spots where the roller first touches) I drain the roller very well so its not completely soaked and then just pressing down somewhat hard get thin coats.

B) Work fast and dont spend 5 MINUTEs on one area trying to get rid of bubbles cuz if you have odorless, atleast in my case, they bubbles are evaporating by themselves and what r left over i just go over with the roller slightly.

C) In my case i had to keep rethining the paint in the bucket (i mixed the paint and mineral spirit in a bucket then pour it into a tray) Because it would dry and slowly get thicker dunno why but its not that extreme.

d) Last but not least from experience, learned mixtakes and a boat load of useless/pointless labor, take your time, go slowly cuz if you try to rush it boy, get ready for alot of hard work.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 05:47 PM

wow, that's funny, home depot parking lot.....you got balls!!!! i would try to find a garage, it'll make it alot eaiser, you could just do 3 coats, wetsand, and then 2 more so you got a good base of paint, and then the final wetsanding and polishing you could take your time with while you drive the car. maybe go door to door and ask people if you could rent their garage for a few days, anything to get the car indoors while you paint, otherwise you;ll have bugs/dirt/hair in your paint like mad. and trust me you will have this problem, like when you wash your car, guarenteed to have a bird [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] on it within 5 mins, and rain within a few hours!!!! definetly practice on something, does'nt have to be metal, just a smooth non porus surface, so you learn how to work the paint properlly.
Posted By: GoDartGo

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 07:02 PM

Okay roller freaks, I just tried
my first test with gloss black
pro-rusto-lium. I got it all drippiddy
wet just like 69 said, just enough
to get the roller full, ONE drop of
fish eye remover. 30 minutes it's
very dry and I can't scrape it with
my finger nail, not tacky at all.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 07:18 PM

Quote:

Okay roller freaks, I just tried
my first test with gloss black
pro-rusto-lium. I got it all drippiddy
wet just like 69 said, just enough
to get the roller full, ONE drop of
fish eye remover. 30 minutes it's
very dry and I can't scrape it with
my finger nail, not tacky at all.





What is the temperature and humidity like? Is it out in the sun?
Posted By: GoDartGo

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 07:41 PM

well, it was 75 degrees and about
40% humididdy, and the sun was in
and out, now it's 73* and it's
been raining off and on.
I took the screw driver and scapped
it off eazy, but hey, it left black
paint in it's path.
I have along way to go on the teckneek.
Posted By: GoDartGo

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 07:52 PM

just check it again and took
some pictures,I will get them
on later, son just got home from
$chool... x2,000,000,000
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 08:05 PM

Are you painting a 67 dart? If so, you beat me to it. I'm waiting for some higher temperatures here, it's very inconsistent weather wise in Sacramento these days.

Unrelated, but why are your messages
in short blocks like this one
is and they don't go all the way
across the screen?

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 08:39 PM

Quote:

Serpent -

FWIW, it sounds like you're already commited but...

I would STRONGLY recommend that you try this method on a test piece first. There is definitely a learning curve to this technique, and unless you've at least tried it out once on something else, ANYTHING else, I think you're going to be unhappy with the results - especially the way you're trying to accomplish it. Don't let all the efforts you've invested so far (time, money and energy doing the prep work) go to waste. If you cant find something to try it out on first (a junkyard door, fender, even an old washer or dryer, ANYTHING...) then do yourself a favor and just work on one section of the car. Hood, fender, even the rear deck lid in your case. Personally, I think a fender is the true test as it has both horizontal and vertical surfaces, creases and curves - a little bit of everything.

JMHO




I am right there with you man. I loved your beer fridge project and learned a lot from it. Since I have removed all of the ground effects I was going to test on them first- on the patio of my apartment. The ground effects are a combo of long smooth surfaces, curves and creases... it is going to be a pain. I wouldn't mind getting my paint in a spray can form for the ground effects. I got off work early today so going to go experiment

Great advice- I will be following it ^_^

-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 08:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Serpent -

FWIW, it sounds like you're already commited but...

I would STRONGLY recommend that you try this method on a test piece first. There is definitely a learning curve to this technique, and unless you've at least tried it out once on something else, ANYTHING else, I think you're going to be unhappy with the results - especially the way you're trying to accomplish it. Don't let all the efforts you've invested so far (time, money and energy doing the prep work) go to waste. If you cant find something to try it out on first (a junkyard door, fender, even an old washer or dryer, ANYTHING...) then do yourself a favor and just work on one section of the car. Hood, fender, even the rear deck lid in your case. Personally, I think a fender is the true test as it has both horizontal and vertical surfaces, creases and curves - a little bit of everything.

JMHO




I would listen to this man. I'm telling you from experience, i did the same thing as you Serpent, well only that you havent done it yet. I painted my whole cae with no prior experience or a test piece and got my self it to alot of trouble!! Now that i have had experience my new GLOSS WHITE Coat is going on soo smooth, 0 BUBBLES and its laying down excellent with a mirror like finish not to mention Hard as rock and i've only done 1 COAT soo far. The trick like every one has been saying is PUT ON THIN COATS, heres what i've changed from my initial start to now:

A) Instead of having the roller full of paint and then just letting it drip down and then rolling it on to the car (which causes alot of thick spots where the roller first touches) I drain the roller very well so its not completely soaked and then just pressing down somewhat hard get thin coats.

B) Work fast and dont spend 5 MINUTEs on one area trying to get rid of bubbles cuz if you have odorless, atleast in my case, they bubbles are evaporating by themselves and what r left over i just go over with the roller slightly.

C) In my case i had to keep rethining the paint in the bucket (i mixed the paint and mineral spirit in a bucket then pour it into a tray) Because it would dry and slowly get thicker dunno why but its not that extreme.

d) Last but not least from experience, learned mixtakes and a boat load of useless/pointless labor, take your time, go slowly cuz if you try to rush it boy, get ready for alot of hard work.




Muhahahaaarrrr... I learned a lot from reading your previous posts! haha Things like not jumping right in and doing the whole car- like you mentioned haha A couple of your posts made me cringe... especially when you broke out the wagner and were talking about fence painting haha Not that it is bad or anything- but the equivalent of my HD painting scheme.. it just rocks This is probably the best thread I have read on the internet because of the contributions of the users. And Bakuryu, Thanks for the additional information in your last post. I will try your method first and see how it works out. I figure it will probably be better try start off learning thin than to pile on the paint and maybe have to do some heavy sanding.

There my words
-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/14/06 08:59 PM

Quote:

wow, that's funny, home depot parking lot.....you got balls!!!! i would try to find a garage, it'll make it alot eaiser, you could just do 3 coats, wetsand, and then 2 more so you got a good base of paint, and then the final wetsanding and polishing you could take your time with while you drive the car. maybe go door to door and ask people if you could rent their garage for a few days, anything to get the car indoors while you paint, otherwise you;ll have bugs/dirt/hair in your paint like mad. and trust me you will have this problem, like when you wash your car, guarenteed to have a bird [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] on it within 5 mins, and rain within a few hours!!!! definetly practice on something, does'nt have to be metal, just a smooth non porus surface, so you learn how to work the paint properlly.




Affirmative, I have balls.... ^_^ I would really like to "rent" a garage or something but there isn't much around here.. mostly apartments. I am still kind of new (almost 2 years now) and just work, come home, and sleep. I will keep my eye out for any pterodactyl in the area.

Have you tested out the clear coat yet? After seeing the results from other users I am not sure if it will be really required. JeffS' results look great with black.

There my words
-Serpent

PS thanks for posting the info to the thread and hanging around to answer questison and give input!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/15/06 01:07 AM

I started yesterday! Two tone paint, one is flat black rustoleum professional, other is Ultrahyde (the only rust paint they would tint at my home depot)

Which will be turquoise

some things to remember

1. I suck

2. For once in Arizona's history it rained while I was doing this

3. Im OUTSIDE!!!

4. Its windy

all that said, I couldnt be happier!!!

AWESOME!

Attached picture 2554365-DSC00001.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/15/06 01:27 AM

Quote:

I started yesterday! Two tone paint, one is flat black rustoleum professional, other is Ultrahyde (the only rust paint they would tint at my home depot)

Which will be turquoise

some things to remember

1. I suck

2. For once in Arizona's history it rained while I was doing this

3. Im OUTSIDE!!!

4. Its windy

all that said, I couldnt be happier!!!

AWESOME!




LOL, "for once in ARIZONA history it rained" hahaha thats classic, good luck to you man. Looks like alot more people are in the same boat me and HD-GARAGE-GUY are in, No GARAGE LOL..join the boat.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/15/06 01:30 AM

If we can keep the duststorms down, midsummer oughtta bake the paint as its applied and the bugs wont even THINK about flying around then
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/15/06 03:49 AM

Here is a shot of it primed. I oversprayed on the doorhandle and lock because I'll just be painting them black later.. no big deal there.. I managed to keep the overspray off the lights, tires, glass, etc. This is the prime job that I did at HD. I stretched a can of the Rustoleum car/auto primmer. Maybe a lil' to thin I managed to get both sides done where the bare metal was showing. The only reason I primed was because I dont have a garage; I had bare metal; and it was going to rain the next day.

I will be posting links to full rez images as soon as I get my site worked out.

There my words
-Serpent

Attached picture 2554831-IMG_7761b.jpg
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/15/06 07:47 AM

Would grey or silver be a color that would cover imperfections pretty well?
Also, I was looking at the rustoleum site and listed with all the stops rust paint colors was clear. Could this be the equivalent to what tremclad sent 69charger?

Top row
Far right
http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=18&SBL=1&dds=16
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/15/06 12:12 PM

I'm on my second coat on the Duster trunk lid. The first coat was thin, and I ended up sanding a lot of it off to get the imperfections of the old paint out. The second coat went on with zero bubbles, but it has severe orange peel. I'm thinking maybe it was too thick, because the first coat was smooth. Tonight I'll sand it smooth and try thinning the paint more for a third coat. I wet sanded the first coat
Both coats are/were unscratchable by fingernail after 12 hours. I tried chipping and digging a groove with my nail and I couldn't make a dent.
I'm painting the lid in my basement, about 60 - 65 degrees. I do run a dehumidifier pretty much full time.
Posted By: GoDartGo

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/15/06 02:20 PM

well I have some really crappy
pictures of gloss black after
30 minutes of dry time from
yesterday.

Attached picture 2555365-DSCN0167.JPG
Posted By: GoDartGo

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/15/06 02:37 PM

test

Attached picture 2555401-DSCN0171.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/15/06 07:19 PM

Ok I'm trying this method on a VW Bus door. I've got a ton of bubbles. I done the other half with a foam brush and it looks good so far. Any suggestions on what to try to keep the bubbles out?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/15/06 08:46 PM

I have only tried a few tests, but found out that applying too much pressure on the roller forces bubbles out of the foam. Keep the pressure as light as possible, and paint as thin as possible. I may try a test at some time with a 4" short nap roller to see if the nap comes out in the paint.They are so much more forgiving than foamies.

Bob
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/15/06 09:37 PM

I think I came up with a good bubble test to see if your paint is thin enough. It might need some refining. I made a video. Uploading everything but should be up by sunday.

-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/15/06 11:15 PM

Allllllrighty then..

So I did my first paint test today. I sanded down my rear spoiler with 80/100/220/400 to get the majority of the imperfections out. I spent more than an hour sanding it and it still wasn't finished. I am not to worried about it because I am getting a highrise or FatBoy soon. This will also help me guage how imperfect I can leave the surface and have the paint fill in the rest. For my car I sanded until it was smooth as glass. That was a lot of work

Here is a picture of the spoiler before I started.


Here is a full resolution link. It is a close up of the damage. File size is about 2MB.
http://camaro.liquidfaith.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?pid=84&fullsize=1

Sanded:




The sanding is the biggest annoyance for me. I was considering taking the car to Maacos and letting the prep it but then rememebered they suck at preping, haha. Blah.

So I followed the instructions about thining the paint. The first thing that I did was to open my pastel tint base and stirred it about a bit for 5mins or so. I figured it wouldn't hurt anything, right? It did create bubbles. Oh, and I did the "fridge methode" to get the bubbles out the first night I came home from HD with it. Well, after stirring that around I transferred my quart of tinted paint to an empty gallon paint tin that I bought at HD. I figured it'd be a good way to mix, seal, and keep the paint am working with. Once I was comfortable with the amount of paint transferred (didn't want to leave any behind and waste money- every drop counts ) I stirred it for a second and the DUMPED in the Odderless Mineral Spirits! Man, it was an accident but that stuff came out so fast and furious and it probably didn't help that I was squeezing the can while pouring. I thought for sure I probably screwed the formula and would need to let it sit and evaporate a bit. Well, stirred it and it seemed ok. Not super thin at all. So I added a little more. Then I remembered I had a camcorder that records little digital files so I ran to get that. Here is the first video showing my paint.

http://camaro.liquidfaith.com/media/video/20060415aPaintThinning.avi (21.5MB)

Also there is a short spot with my spoiler and then my car at the end ^_^

Well, the paint didn't really look thin enough so after the video I added a bit more. Then I was remembering some of the discussions in this thread about blowing out the bubbles and that they should pop by them selves, mostly, etc. Well, why wait until you paint your test subject to find out if your paint is thick enough? I noticed I had little bubbles on my mixing stick so I just pulled it out and blew on it to see if the bubbles would pop. The didn't... so I added some more mineral spirits. Tried again and it worked! I made a little video that shows some of the paints consistency and blowing out the bubbles. The camera takes blurry videos. I don't like it but it is all I have Oh, and it sounds like I was blowing pretty hard but I wasn't. It was just that my mouth was pretty close to the mics.

http://camaro.liquidfaith.com/media/video/20060415bBubbleTest.avi (7MB)

This method probably needs a little refining by an experienced roller.

Before I started painting I figured I'd check the humidity one more time. Seemed ok to paint @41%.
http://camaro.liquidfaith.com/media/video/20060415cWeather.avi (6.5MB)

So, on went the first coat. I noticed a lot of little bubbles but they all pretty much popped by themselves in a few seconds! It was wierd. It was like 80% of the surface was bubbles and then they all popped and there was maybe one or two left on the surface that I just blew on. I didn't load up on the paint like crazy because I wanted to avoid running. It seemed like I got a nice even coat. I did notice some slight orange peel. I am not sure if it is normal or not and maybe I just needed to give it time to lay down. Maybe thinning the paint a little more will help it lay a little better. My paint seemed to dry pretty quick.

Here is a shot of the first coat about 1min after.


Here is a close up of the orange peel. Not very noticable until I am right on top of it. Maybe needed a little more time to lay.

http://camaro.liquidfaith.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?pid=89&fullsize=1 (2MB)

Here is a little video of the first coat.
http://camaro.liquidfaith.com/media/video/20060415d1stCoat.avi (3.6MB)

So that is the only coat I will do today since it is late. I am getting some dust and debris on my painted surface. It is slightly tacky last time I checked. I used a soft face cloth and kind of just swung it at the surface and it knocked loose the debris without affecting the painted surface.

For now I will keep working on my website for this project and then reread the posts in this topic to see if I am missing anything.

You can access all of my images at http://camaro.liquidfaith.com/Gallery

I am still tweaking it. Full rez images are about 2MB.

Ok, I hope this little contribution was helpful

Cheers,
-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/15/06 11:22 PM

Here are some pics of SOME of the stuff I bought for this project, haha. I left out all the tools, sandpaper, etc. I have so many packs of sandpaper - All differnt grits. It was because I couldnt really find the right ones so I just bought what ever I could find. And then of course I find the right ones needed after I hunted -_- One thing to note is that I have been using Exit's "foam sander" technique that he mentioned a while back- rather than one of those heavy rubber blocks. It seems to work very good.



Posted By: admactanium

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/16/06 12:01 AM

okay, had to jump in and respond to folks who said that this paint technique couldn't result in a very shiny surface. i did a test section on an old motorcycle tank of mine just to see what would happen. i've been delaying painting my track bike with 2k paints that i bought from an auto paint supply store because i was worried about the isocyanate issues. but after doing this test section, i think the whole bike will be painted in rustoleum (i used a different brand but seems to be basically the same thing).

here's the tank itself. you can see that it's very orangepeel-y because i rushed it and probably did too heavy of coats. also, i knew i could sand out the peel.



here are multiple shots of the surface after wetsanding off all the orange peel and sanding down to 1500 grit. it was easy enough to polish out that i would probably skip 2000 gt. this is done with a makita forced rotation random orbital sander/polisher and menzerna intensive polish. it would get even shinier if i used a finer polish to smooth it out even further and put a wax or other sealant on top of it.







obviously the surface prep wasn't the greatest as there are waves all over the place. but hopefully this gives people some hope that a shiny paintjob CAN be achieved with these materials. detailing is a hobby of mine, so the final finishing stage is the part that's easiest for me to do and it ends up with the best results. if you can finish the job well you'll end up with something quite nice it seems. i'll see how it goes on my track bike.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/16/06 12:19 AM

Quote:

Allllllrighty then..

So I did my first paint test today. I sanded down my rear spoiler with 80/100/220/400 to get the majority of the imperfections out. I spent more than an hour sanding it and it still wasn't finished. I am not to worried about it because I am getting a highrise or FatBoy soon. This will also help me guage how imperfect I can leave the surface and have the paint fill in the rest. For my car I sanded until it was smooth as glass. That was a lot of work

Here is a picture of the spoiler before I started.


Here is a full resolution link. It is a close up of the damage. File size is about 2MB.
http://camaro.liquidfaith.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?pid=84&fullsize=1

Sanded:




The sanding is the biggest annoyance for me. I was considering taking the car to Maacos and letting the prep it but then rememebered they suck at preping, haha. Blah.

So I followed the instructions about thining the paint. The first thing that I did was to open my pastel tint base and stirred it about a bit for 5mins or so. I figured it wouldn't hurt anything, right? It did create bubbles. Oh, and I did the "fridge methode" to get the bubbles out the first night I came home from HD with it. Well, after stirring that around I transferred my quart of tinted paint to an empty gallon paint tin that I bought at HD. I figured it'd be a good way to mix, seal, and keep the paint am working with. Once I was comfortable with the amount of paint transferred (didn't want to leave any behind and waste money- every drop counts ) I stirred it for a second and the DUMPED in the Odderless Mineral Spirits! Man, it was an accident but that stuff came out so fast and furious and it probably didn't help that I was squeezing the can while pouring. I thought for sure I probably screwed the formula and would need to let it sit and evaporate a bit. Well, stirred it and it seemed ok. Not super thin at all. So I added a little more. Then I remembered I had a camcorder that records little digital files so I ran to get that. Here is the first video showing my paint.

http://camaro.liquidfaith.com/media/video/20060415aPaintThinning.avi (21.5MB)

Also there is a short spot with my spoiler and then my car at the end ^_^

Well, the paint didn't really look thin enough so after the video I added a bit more. Then I was remembering some of the discussions in this thread about blowing out the bubbles and that they should pop by them selves, mostly, etc. Well, why wait until you paint your test subject to find out if your paint is thick enough? I noticed I had little bubbles on my mixing stick so I just pulled it out and blew on it to see if the bubbles would pop. The didn't... so I added some more mineral spirits. Tried again and it worked! I made a little video that shows some of the paints consistency and blowing out the bubbles. The camera takes blurry videos. I don't like it but it is all I have Oh, and it sounds like I was blowing pretty hard but I wasn't. It was just that my mouth was pretty close to the mics.

http://camaro.liquidfaith.com/media/video/20060415bBubbleTest.avi (7MB)

This method probably needs a little refining by an experienced roller.

Before I started painting I figured I'd check the humidity one more time. Seemed ok to paint @41%.
http://camaro.liquidfaith.com/media/video/20060415cWeather.avi (6.5MB)

So, on went the first coat. I noticed a lot of little bubbles but they all pretty much popped by themselves in a few seconds! It was wierd. It was like 80% of the surface was bubbles and then they all popped and there was maybe one or two left on the surface that I just blew on. I didn't load up on the paint like crazy because I wanted to avoid running. It seemed like I got a nice even coat. I did notice some slight orange peel. I am not sure if it is normal or not and maybe I just needed to give it time to lay down. Maybe thinning the paint a little more will help it lay a little better. My paint seemed to dry pretty quick.

Here is a shot of the first coat about 1min after.


Here is a close up of the orange peel. Not very noticable until I am right on top of it. Maybe needed a little more time to lay.

http://camaro.liquidfaith.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?pid=89&fullsize=1 (2MB)

Here is a little video of the first coat.
http://camaro.liquidfaith.com/media/video/20060415d1stCoat.avi (3.6MB)

So that is the only coat I will do today since it is late. I am getting some dust and debris on my painted surface. It is slightly tacky last time I checked. I used a soft face cloth and kind of just swung it at the surface and it knocked loose the debris without affecting the painted surface.

For now I will keep working on my website for this project and then reread the posts in this topic to see if I am missing anything.

You can access all of my images at http://camaro.liquidfaith.com/Gallery

I am still tweaking it. Full rez images are about 2MB.

Ok, I hope this little contribution was helpful

Cheers,
-Serpent






You are doing everything according to order except for ONE! big thing....ODORLESS MINERAL SPIRITS DO NOT USE IT! STEP AWAY FROM IT. Get 100% MINERAL SPIRIT, odorless takes forever to dry and bubbles wont go away.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/16/06 12:47 AM

adam, what kind of paint did you use? Im wondering what else works because of the limited color selection of rustoleum..
Posted By: admactanium

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/16/06 01:14 AM

Quote:

adam, what kind of paint did you use? Im wondering what else works because of the limited color selection of rustoleum..



i used a paint called xo rust. i picked it up at my local hardware store (venice hardware). it seems to be about the same as rustoleum and there was a better selection of colors. i painted this section probably around 3 weeks ago or so and then i got busy with a bunch of personal and work stuff, so i let it sit since then. the paint is pretty hard and it seems to hold up well to scratches. i CAN scratch it with my fingernail but it's nothing i wouldn't expect from any 2k paint after only 3 weeks of curing (plus, as you know, it's been raining in our area and kinda humid and chilly.)

it's pretty positive so far, i think my only concern for it is its resistance to gasoline. krylon looks like absolute hell when gas gets on it. so for the tank i might end up buying a clear coat product called "lustrekote" that's used for model planes. it's supposedly very gas resistent and comes in a rattle can. if it works well and doesn't react strangely to this paint, i might paint all the bike in it. but it doesn't seem to be necessary right now since the paint is getting enough shine just on its own. if i can paint the whole bike without exposure to isocyanites because i can paint straight over body filler without having to use a 2k primer, then i'll be very happy. plus, it's a track bike and will likely need a repaint before i suffer any ill effects of the elements. haha.

what's interesting is that my paint looked awful after a few coats because i was really rushing and not sanding well between coats. so i got bad orange peel:



and some weird "checking" where veins of paint would crumple up. this is likely due to not sanding the previous coats and giving the new coats any "tooth".



however, after wetsanding these areas smooth with 800, 1000, and 1500 grit it comes out nice and smooth. here's that same section with a bit of waxy goodness on it. it's important to notice the sharpness of the reflections. that's a sure sign that this paint is "shiny". i think the haziness in this picture is because the window is dirty. the window bars are pretty distinct.



it's very slick to the touch now and the polymer sealant i use on it (as opposed to straight carnauba wax) should offer some uv protection so hopefully it won't fade as badly. tomorrow i'm going to pick up all the colors i need for the track plastics and start on it.

i did paint a bike tank with krylon years ago and it looked great for a while after i colorsanded it. but i also rushed all the painting steps and laid too heavy coats on. plus, as soon as the krylon got hit by gas it turned milky. i'm hoping that this stuff doesn't suffer from that.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/16/06 01:28 AM

Adam, that sure is a very nice shine. So if I understand, you didn't sand between coats, but put all the coats on and then sanded at the very end only? How many coats did you do total?

I would be worried that a dog hair or dust speck would get trapped on there during coat 1, and there would be several coats over it, then I'm not sure if it would wetsand out or if it would be stuck under there.. did you have any stuff falling in it throughout the coats?
Posted By: admactanium

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/16/06 01:43 AM

Quote:

Adam, that sure is a very nice shine. So if I understand, you didn't sand between coats, but put all the coats on and then sanded at the very end only? How many coats did you do total?

I would be worried that a dog hair or dust speck would get trapped on there during coat 1, and there would be several coats over it, then I'm not sure if it would wetsand out or if it would be stuck under there.. did you have any stuff falling in it throughout the coats?



hi exit, sorry, my name's not adam. although i see why you're confused. i think i only did 5 coats overall and i didn't get full coverage on the metal. there are spots that are showing through. but for me, the test panel was more to see how much shine i could get out of that paint and how hard it would be. i know when i do it for real i'll do enough to get full coverage of the surface. i didn't get too much debris in the paint but after sanding i didn't uncover some specks.

but again, this wasn't meant to be a test of coverage. i'd follow the steps properly as laid out earlier just to save myself the trouble of sanding out crap in the end. i really just wanted to see how this paint surface would stand color sanding and see how much gloss could be had. i know some people were concerned about gloss and my logic was that most paints can have the same amount of gloss as others as long as the color sanding step is done properly.

when i painted my previous tank with krylon it looks like complete crap but i knew i could wetsand and polish out the imperfections. where i messed up was laying on too many coats too fast so the paint didn't have time to cure properly before i put on other layers. i'm naturally impatient that way. when i finished polishing out that krylon tank and fenders (painted black) it was a mirror.

so i was just curious to see if regular ole rustoleum (or xo rust or whatever) could be polished to a nice shine. i'm convinced that i can be and if the surface prep and the color sanding steps are done properly a paint job using this method would be virtually indistinguishable from a pro-shot paintjob. and in many cases, if you do those steps effectively, it could look much better than 95% of the professionally shot paintjob out there. it just seemed like there were people dismissing this technique wholesale because they couldn't get enough shine out of the paintjob in the end when in all likelihood it was their colorsanding and buffing technique that caused the problem. they would likely have just about as flat a paintjob from a professional gun with 2k paints as they would with rustoleum because they were not finishing the job correctly.

of course, this doesn't answer any of the questions of durability in regards to the elements, sun, gasoline, grit and other crap that cars get put through, but at least this is encouraging enough to let me know that the paint can look awesome given that the proper care is taken that you would use for ANY paint job.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/16/06 02:00 AM

admactanium, what swirl remover, polish and wax would you recommend? I was going to go with the Zaino swirl remover but it is more of a filler. Not sure if that'd be good for this application. It seems that the Menzerna would be a good chioce though then followed by the Zaino Z-3 polisher maybe.. thoughts?
Posted By: admactanium

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/16/06 02:09 AM

Quote:

admactanium, what swirl remover, polish and wax would you recommend? I was going to go with the Zaino swirl remover but it is more of a filler. Not sure if that'd be good for this application. It seems that the Menzerna would be a good chioce though then followed by the Zaino Z-3 polisher maybe.. thoughts?



right now i'm big on menzerna intensive polish and final polish II using a yellow cutting pad/orange powerpad and white finishing pad respectively. there are some other great products out there right now that are supposed to be as good. poor boys products are getting good reviews from people on autopia.. the key is using good polishing pads and polishes with diminishing abrasives (and working them long enough). when i go to final paint on this i'll probably colorsand down to 2000 grit and give it a real mirror finish with final polish and then a nice glaze or just a sealant. the tank section you see above was sanded to 1500 and polished with intensive polish alone on a yellow cutting pad just as a quick test. however i didn't colorsand enough and some of the heavier grit sandmarks are still visible. but in any case, it can be done and it can be shiny. this was more of a "proof of concept" test than a test of how i'd want to paint to finally look.

i have noticed that menzerna has some filling effect as the surface can be somewhat oily after use. but i think if it's worked well enough the surface will be smooth under it regardless. i think poorboys is known for not having a lot of fillers in it so you can see what you get. even if you were working with a polish with fillers, you could just use rubbing alcohol and a terry towel to check how the surface is under the polish as you go along.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/16/06 09:00 PM

here's a pic i just shoot waxed the car, slightly overcast.

Attached picture 2558437-DSC03362.JPG
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/16/06 09:03 PM

and another

Attached picture 2558442-DSC03363.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/16/06 09:07 PM

Quote:

and another





? Your attachement doesnt work.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/16/06 09:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

and another





? Your attachement doesnt work.




ya guess their too big, i'll reduce them and post them later. their within the right size, no idea why they won't work, i'll re-do them later tonite.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/16/06 10:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

and another





? Your attachement doesnt work.




ya guess their too big, i'll reduce them and post them later. their within the right size, no idea why they won't work, i'll re-do them later tonite.




What are they? *hopes its a test piece with Rust-oelum clear coat on to show its perfection* i wonder
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 12:21 AM

ok here are the pics, i just waxed the car, first time since painting it last sept. not too bad for 3 days work, still shines just like when i painted it. granted i could have really pulled off a better job if only i took more time, but i was extreemly eager to drive my dream car, i could not wait to get it on the road, i was litterally doing the pee-pee dance the whole time, picturing myself driving it!!!enjoy.


http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03362.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03363.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03375.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03384.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03390.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03403.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03405.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03406.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03407.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03410.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 01:23 AM

alright... so ive read through some of this thread, and would like to go about painting my car. Can someone just give me the steps on what to do. All the steps are pretty much muffled in different pages. So if someone could put them together in one post, that would be great!
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 01:28 AM

Quote:

alright... so ive read through some of this thread, and would like to go about painting my car. Can someone just give me the steps on what to do. All the steps are pretty much muffled in different pages. So if someone could put them together in one post, that would be great!




this might help:

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...0432b6d5fe08df8

but i highly getting some beer, and coffee, and reading the whole post, you could start with coffee, then beer, or vs.
Posted By: admactanium

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 01:34 AM

charger, your car's looking good but i guarantee you you could get more shine out of that paintjob with some more wetsanding and a good buffer.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 01:48 AM

Quote:

charger, your car's looking good but i guarantee you you could get more shine out of that paintjob with some more wetsanding and a good buffer.




there's no doubt in my mind that i could pull off pro-quality paint, but there's one problem > i'm driving the car too much!!!! keep in mind i drive the car alot and hard, to the cottage, practially every day, so paint to me is'nt a huge concern, plus i don't have the time to buff between my many hobbies and wife/baby, i just want to enjoy the car. i'm happy with it the way it is, and in a few years the paint will be redone, going sideways on a dirt road at 60MPH does'nt treat any paint really good !!!! i've learned to accept minor flaws and imperfect paint, i used to be a total perfectionst, but my charger has some flaws, sure it's not as shiny as a ferarri enzo, sure the chrome is'nt perfect, but i like it, and i enjoy driving the car alot, if i went all out painting it myself, i'd be too paranoid to drive the car as much as i do now. since i've had the car, basically on the road from oct 2005 until now i've put on about 15000MI+!!!!! that's usually over 14500MI more then the average mopar garage queen sees in a year, and i've only been driving mine for 7 months and there was a winter there somewhere, but it was sooo mild i drove it all winter when the roads were dry, in Toronto, Canada!!!! and by the way, at 120MPH, it's just a orange blur, shiny paint or not!!!!
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 02:21 AM

looks really good to me. I feel the same way, if i'm going to fix up my old truck, I want to be able to drive it and use it and not have to worry about the thousands of dollars I spent to make it look good.
I'm almost done with my test hood. Only one more coat to put on tomorrow, wetsand it with 1500 and then polish. I'll probably post pictures later this week. Then I'll start getting the truck ready for paint. This is the BEST thread I have ever come across. Just want to say thanks to 69charger for making a lot of people's dreams of driving a nice looking vehicle and being proud of doing it themselves.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 02:54 AM

i have some brush on paint stripper, you think it would be easier so use some stripper and take off the old paint, than to sand it?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 03:09 AM

Quote:

looks really good to me. I feel the same way, if i'm going to fix up my old truck, I want to be able to drive it and use it and not have to worry about the thousands of dollars I spent to make it look good.
I'm almost done with my test hood. Only one more coat to put on tomorrow, wetsand it with 1500 and then polish. I'll probably post pictures later this week. Then I'll start getting the truck ready for paint. This is the BEST thread I have ever come across. Just want to say thanks to 69charger for making a lot of people's dreams of driving a nice looking vehicle and being proud of doing it themselves.




no problem, hope i helped someone out. the feel good about doing it yourself is the best part. sharing it with others is even better, from the interest in this thread, it's obvious there's a need to stop the high costs of painting, lets all come together, together we can beat this!!!!
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 03:12 AM

Quote:

i have some brush on paint stripper, you think it would be easier so use some stripper and take off the old paint, than to sand it?




from my expirence absoultly a big NO on that, messy, stinks, removes skin, ect... you'll actually create more body work for yourself.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 03:45 AM

Ok, I couldn't hold out any longer and I dove into painting my car finally. First I did second coat on my test spoiler though. I didn't need to add any more mineral spirits to my paint. The consistancy seemed the same since I mixed it and the bubbles on my stirs stick would pop by themselves or when I'd blow on them. So I did my first coat and it looks how I imagined it would. I didn't realize that painting a white car white would be tough. It was hard to see what was painted but i got the hang of it. I waited about 7 hours and I tested the paint. Tried to scratch it and it was really hard. I figured that would be my ok to paint another coat. Second coat went on as good as the 1st. Really easy process. All my bubbles popped almost instantly. No dripping or anything either (a few exceptions). So as soon as a finish my second coat.. guess what happens... it starts to rain! gah.. luckly it was more of a drizzly and only lasted a minute or two. The paint was dry enough on the parts that I started with (the hood, fenders, etc) that I could do a very like blotting with a microfiber towel to absorb the water drops. Well, after I finished getting all those damn water drops off the car it rained again. This went on for about a hour or 2. The paint doesn't really seem affected at all. I will inspect it tomorrow and take pictures. My second coat is starting to cover some of the primer but I am thinking maybe 4 coats will cover everything completely. I am thinking to do more than 6 coats. Are there any advantages to doing more than 6?

I ordered 150$+ worth of Zaino products today.. for my wife's car of course...which she doesn't really have one yet... so I guess I get to use it for now.. yay ^_^ Going to test the turtle wax stuff and other brands that were mentioned on the boards too:)

-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 03:48 AM

Hi Charger, my mom had a charger when I was little. I remember when they came and stole me and threw me in the back seat.. *sigh*.. those were the good days (it is actually a cool story haha).. anyway it was done up like the General Lee and had the ram thing on the front and had a lot of switches inside of it just under the dashboard if I remmeber correctly. Seats were leather I think.. The car was in good condition. about 12years ago my dad blew the engine though and it sat until they sold it for like 2k. I have pictures some where.. that orange on your charger is very nice.. looks like the gernal lee

-Serpent
Posted By: admactanium

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 06:38 AM

okay, i've been doing a bit of thinking after starting the numberplate areas on my track plastics. i think i'm going to change the procedure for my own personal needs to take advantage of my strengths and downplay my weaknesses.

given equal prep work, i believe i can end up with a final product that is the same by rolling on the paint at full-strength rather than thinned. my thinking is this: it seems the main reason to thin the paint so much is to have it lay down flat and avoid orange-peel. the downside to that is figuring out the correct mixture ratio and the fact that it takes many coats to get a decent thickness. that's a time penalty. plus, i'm just really impatient and i want to put on more coats before the previous ones have finished drying. also, the bubbles are not popping for me. so that's a hassle. i end up going over the same spots over and over to pop the bubbles and screwing up the coat before it's fully dry.

personally, i'd rather put the coats on full strength and get good thickness, not worrying about the orange peel. i'd rather spend my time wetsanding and polishing than putting on many thin coats and waiting for good coverage/thickness.

so tomorrow i'm going to lightly sand the 2/3 coats i have on the numberplate areas and then put on some paint full-strength. that'll give me faster visible results and i'll worry about the orangepeel later when i have the whole thing done.

i also considered spraying, but the same problems of time/space/messiness still apply for spraying rustoleum as they do for 2k paints. the isocyanate are obviously removed, but the rest of the inconvenience still stands and this affords me an opportunity to paint the bike at my own pace (evenings and mornings) rather than tying up a whole part of my too-full garage to spray.

i'm not recommending everyone do the same, as i have way too much stuff for polishing personally and i doubt everyone has as much equipment for that part of the job as i do. but it's just something to think about.
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 12:03 PM

I am using odorless mineral spirits, on my third coat. I get zero bubbles when laying down a coat and it dries rock hard by the next day (that is when I get back to it to do another coat).
Just thought I'd throw that out there.

I hope to post pics later today.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 01:42 PM

Admac- using full strength coats, I'd be worried about the paint drying completely. One benefit to the thinned paint is that it dries faster all the way through. I have done a single coat of black rustoleum pro and mineral spirits, and after a day it was rock hard and unscratchable (as are the results of others here). But where I spilled black paint here and there at full strength, to this day I can slice it with my nail. I think when it goes on too thick, the top portion can dry before the paint underneath has had a chance to evaporate the solvents, and it stays soft indefinately since the top layer, which might be hard, is sitting on uncured soft paint underneath it..

Posted By: admactanium

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 04:33 PM

Quote:

Admac- using full strength coats, I'd be worried about the paint drying completely. One benefit to the thinned paint is that it dries faster all the way through. I have done a single coat of black rustoleum pro and mineral spirits, and after a day it was rock hard and unscratchable (as are the results of others here). But where I spilled black paint here and there at full strength, to this day I can slice it with my nail. I think when it goes on too thick, the top portion can dry before the paint underneath has had a chance to evaporate the solvents, and it stays soft indefinately since the top layer, which might be hard, is sitting on uncured soft paint underneath it..





interesting. you would think that it would be formulated to dry properly at the mixture it comes out of the can. i'll keep that in mind.

one more thing i am finding is that if you ARE having trouble with bubbles, the best way to get rid of them (and easier than trying to knock them down with the roller) is to use one of the foam brushes that you bought for nooks and crannies dipped in paint. just lightly go over the bubble areas and they're all gone, then the "brush marks" will flow out on their own over time.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 06:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Admac- using full strength coats, I'd be worried about the paint drying completely. One benefit to the thinned paint is that it dries faster all the way through. I have done a single coat of black rustoleum pro and mineral spirits, and after a day it was rock hard and unscratchable (as are the results of others here). But where I spilled black paint here and there at full strength, to this day I can slice it with my nail. I think when it goes on too thick, the top portion can dry before the paint underneath has had a chance to evaporate the solvents, and it stays soft indefinately since the top layer, which might be hard, is sitting on uncured soft paint underneath it..





interesting. you would think that it would be formulated to dry properly at the mixture it comes out of the can. i'll keep that in mind.

one more thing i am finding is that if you ARE having trouble with bubbles, the best way to get rid of them (and easier than trying to knock them down with the roller) is to use one of the foam brushes that you bought for nooks and crannies dipped in paint. just lightly go over the bubble areas and they're all gone, then the "brush marks" will flow out on their own over time.




Are you sure your using 100% MINERAL SPIRIT, not odorless of Low-odor. I was using Low-odor when i was first doing my car gray, but now since i'm doing it white, i'm using 100% MINERAL SPIRIT and i'mgettin no bubbles, they pop on their own.
Posted By: admactanium

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 06:12 PM

100% mineral spirits. i think there are a number of environmental factors that affect each of our results. humidity and heat differences alone could definitely cause differing results. plus, we don't know how much each of us are diluting the solution. i know we're using subjective measures like "watery" and such, but i'd bet there's a lot of variance in all of our techniques.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 06:24 PM

I looked at JeffS's post again last night which makes me wonder if the sanding schedule should be revised. If I understood what he said, he did the regular 2 coats - 600, 2 coats -1000, 2 coats - 1500, but then he used 600, did one more coat then went to 1500 in order to get rid of some shiny circly things.

It seems like if you go back to 600 later on, why bother doing anything but 600 on the earlier coats? like 2 coats, 600, 2 coats, 600, 2 coats, 600, 1 coat, 1500.

Does that make sense? I suppose you could use 1000 instead of 600 each time as well then, then 1 final coat and go to 1500?

Also does anyone have a picture of those shiny circly things JeffS mentioned?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 06:28 PM

Quote:


interesting. you would think that it would be formulated to dry properly at the mixture it comes out of the can. i'll keep that in mind.





Yes I thought it was strange too, but it's been my experience. If you are going to use it full strength, I would just try to keep the coats thin and give them plenty of drying time. Way far back in this post, was someone said that the problem with rustoleum is that it never completely hardens, and I think 69charger replied and said it hardens if applied thin as with mineral spirits.

I did one fairly thick coat that was thinned with Penetrol of "regal red" and it can still be scratched with a fingernail, though it is harder to scratch that successive coats of rustoleum thinned with mineral spirits where there was not enough drying time between coats. Rustoleum tech line said it was put on too thick, and the top dried and is not letting the solvent out from beneath.
Posted By: admactanium

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 08:07 PM

Quote:

I looked at JeffS's post again last night which makes me wonder if the sanding schedule should be revised. If I understood what he said, he did the regular 2 coats - 600, 2 coats -1000, 2 coats - 1500, but then he used 600, did one more coat then went to 1500 in order to get rid of some shiny circly things.

It seems like if you go back to 600 later on, why bother doing anything but 600 on the earlier coats? like 2 coats, 600, 2 coats, 600, 2 coats, 600, 1 coat, 1500.

Does that make sense? I suppose you could use 1000 instead of 600 each time as well then, then 1 final coat and go to 1500?

Also does anyone have a picture of those shiny circly things JeffS mentioned?




i agree with you. there's no point in sanding down the previous-to-final coats with 1000 grit. in fact, it might be too smooth to give the next layer enough tooth. i think i'm going to stick to 300 to smooth things out on this first day's work and then use 600 from the out until final wetsand. the finer grits don't do any good until you get to colorsanding anyway as long as the final coats can cover the sanding marks from the previous layer you're good to go.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 08:09 PM

i've allways said, 2 coats, wetsand 600-800, 2 coats wetsand 800-1000, 2 coats and then final 1000-1500 and buff/polish. all depends on how nice you want it to look at the end.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 09:37 PM

I read through this entire thread but skimmed some stuff (29 pages is a lot to read). I have one question that I never found an answer to.

How is this technique in regards to covering a darker color with a light one? My Jeep is currently a navy blue but I was considering going to a lighter color. Any adjustment in procedure/technique for this?
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 09:41 PM

Attached is a picture of the Duster trunk lid after the first coat and wetsand.

Attached picture 2560836-P4140084.JPG
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 09:43 PM

Here is a pic after the third coat, no wetsanding yet.

Attached picture 2560843-P4160088.JPG
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 09:44 PM

Another picture.

I'll be wetsanding and applying another coat tonight.

Attached picture 2560848-P4160089.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 10:27 PM

My paint diary has been updated now if anyone is interested:



Paint Diary Updated!!!!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 10:33 PM

Quote:

My paint diary has been updated now if anyone is interested:



Paint Diary Updated!!!!!!




Haha that first pic answers my question.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 11:29 PM

Exit1965 what I said to do is 2 coats sand with 600 do 2 more coats sand with 600 do 2 more coats sand with 600 and then one single coat and then sand with 2000. Also what I was saying is that 1000 and 1500 grit cut really fast and if you just do 6 coats without sanding with 600 and doing one more single coat it's easy to sand through to the next layer of paint and it will leave shiny rings in the paint because the layer under the top is shiny and they will not polish out. They kind of look like ghost images in the paint. If you sand with 600 and do one final single coat then sand with 2000 if you cut through the top layer of paint you will not get the rings in your paint because the layer under it was not shiny. I have to see if I have good picture of the rings.
Posted By: admactanium

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/17/06 11:33 PM

i understand what you're saying jeffS. that makes sense.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 12:13 AM

Where can I pick up some sandpaper 1000+?

I work at home depot we only carry as high as 600 grit.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 12:40 AM

ok, so do i buy professional or the stops rust?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 01:00 AM

Quote:

Where can I pick up some sandpaper 1000+?

I work at home depot we only carry as high as 600 grit.




I know my walmart has 1500, I haven't looked for 2000 but they might have that there. It's in the car care section where they have car touchup paint and bondo. If not there, a local auto body paint supplier should have it.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 01:07 AM

Quote:

Exit1965 what I said to do is 2 coats sand with 600 do 2 more coats sand with 600 do 2 more coats sand with 600 and then one single coat and then sand with 2000. Also what I was saying is that 1000 and 1500 grit cut really fast and if you just do 6 coats without sanding with 600 and doing one more single coat it's easy to sand through to the next layer of paint and it will leave shiny rings in the paint because the layer under the top is shiny and they will not polish out. They kind of look like ghost images in the paint. If you sand with 600 and do one final single coat then sand with 2000 if you cut through the top layer of paint you will not get the rings in your paint because the layer under it was not shiny. I have to see if I have good picture of the rings.




Ahh I see, sorry I misunderstood. That does make sense and sounds a bit easier to boot.

I'm done doing testing, so the next time I break out the roller will be on the dart, and I think I'll start with the trunk lid for some extra practice before doing the rest of the car..

Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 01:11 AM

Quote:

Exit1965 what I said to do is 2 coats sand with 600 do 2 more coats sand with 600 do 2 more coats sand with 600 and then one single coat and then sand with 2000. Also what I was saying is that 1000 and 1500 grit cut really fast and if you just do 6 coats without sanding with 600 and doing one more single coat it's easy to sand through to the next layer of paint and it will leave shiny rings in the paint because the layer under the top is shiny and they will not polish out. They kind of look like ghost images in the paint. If you sand with 600 and do one final single coat then sand with 2000 if you cut through the top layer of paint you will not get the rings in your paint because the layer under it was not shiny. I have to see if I have good picture of the rings.




jeffs - i was wondering when someone would get to that point, i can tell your in the advanced stages of polishing, and wetsanding, the "rings" are a function of going thru the paint, to the next layer. so if you do 2 coats you'll not go thru it with 1500 if you wetsanded between coats because you don't have to remove too much paint by wetsanding. interesting, it took 29 pages in this post for someone to get to the real advanced stages of polishing, but your on the right track, i can tell your polishing is approaching show quality because i encountered the same issue years ago. if i really want to pull off show quality, i'd do 10 coats, and get it perfect.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 01:27 AM

Quote:

ok, so do i buy professional or the stops rust?


Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 01:29 AM

Ok guys, buddha civic, here is my car with WHITE 2 COATS, i took these pics today and right after taking them i did the third coat, i'm laying down the COATS REALLLLLLLY THIN, so i'm gonna wetsand after 3 coats not 2 and with 800GRIT. Here are some pics.





Soo far, no bubbles and its laying down very very smooth
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 01:31 AM

i decided to prime my test piece - i did some body work with the dings but when i primed it some more showed up =\ ...i sprayed it though and i had no problems with bubbles or nething...i thinned it out with mineral sprits.
will paint "fire red" (even though i think that color sux) and see how it turns out




Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 01:32 AM

I used the regular stop rust and it came out good.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 01:35 AM

Looks good Bakuryu!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 01:43 AM

Buddha, I gotta say you've come quite a ways! After seeing your first go round, I gotta admit... well, let's just say I had my doubts. But you've shown incredible perseverence, this new white coat looks great! Congrats and keep it up!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 01:44 AM

Quote:

I used the regular stop rust and it came out good.




well, i went to lowes here, and they only had the professional, and they had a decent amount of colors. Ill have to check other places i guess...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 01:44 AM

Thx, i'll post some pics of the third coat done and man o man, its looking very very NICE! and best of all little to none orange peel and virtually 0% Bubbles, i dont even have to huff and puff like i had to with the other paint.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 01:51 AM

Buddha - can you see a significant difference between the odorless mineral spirits and the "odored" mineral spirits? Especially in the amount of "orange peel"? I'm two coats into doing the lawn tractor and I don't feel as though I'm getting as smooth coats as I'm seeing from some of the other folks. I'm still using the odorless spirits and I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth the effort to track down some of the other kind. I had to take last week and the weekend off (out of town) but hope to pick it back up this weekend for coats 3 and 4.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 01:54 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I used the regular stop rust and it came out good.




well, i went to lowes here, and they only had the professional, and they had a decent amount of colors. Ill have to check other places i guess...




I've used professional and it was fine, it will work fine. I'd rather have prof. than not, but I think either will work, just get whatever comes in the color you want, if you want a stock color.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 02:06 AM

Quote:

Another picture.

I'll be wetsanding and applying another coat tonight.




Wow - yet another impressive effort! I think now that some time has gone by and folks have had time to experiment a little ( as well as shake off the doubts), we're really starting to see some genuine quality work here.

And at 30 pages of material and no signs of slowing down, I gotta start believing that this thread might just take on a life of it's own! Hmmmmm...

paintyourcarwithrustoluem.c*m
plugger-autopainting.c*m
rollermaniacs.c*m
50dollarpaintjob.c*m

???
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 03:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Another picture.

I'll be wetsanding and applying another coat tonight.




Wow - yet another impressive effort! I think now that some time has gone by and folks have had time to experiment a little ( as well as shake off the doubts), we're really starting to see some genuine quality work here.

And at 30 pages of material and no signs of slowing down, I gotta start believing that this thread might just take on a life of it's own! Hmmmmm...

paintyourcarwithrustoluem.c*m
plugger-autopainting.c*m
rollermaniacs.c*m
50dollarpaintjob.c*m

???




Rick, i honestly suggest you go out and get some 100% MINERAL SPIRIT, it makes the difference of a lifetime, atleast for me, i was using low-odor and it was slow in drying, forsomereason wouldnt mix well with the paint, and the bubbles werent going away. This new one, just to let u know i searched every WHERE!!! looked at 7 Major paint stores and couldnt find it and finally found it at a small paint shop but for 10$ lOL and boy was it worth it. I suggest you try it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 03:33 AM

I'm going to put my in to hopefully help some guys on previous posts that were looking for 1000 grit sandpaper and higher. I used to work at a plant that "converted" 50 and larger yard rolls of sandpaper of every type (silicon carbide,aluminum oxide,etc.) to name a few and that always had fairly good deals on sleeves of sandpaper. The name of the company is Industrial Abrasives. They're located in Reading Penn. Here's they're phone number. 610-378-1861 Sorry but I don't remember they're toll free number but I do believe that they may still have a website. They have a retail line and a wholesale line. Wendy handles almost all the retail and Sandy(believe it or not) handles the wholesale. They also sell the equivilent sp? of Scotchbrite pads. Anyway- give them a ring- I hope that they may be a cheaper alternative to 2 or 3 buck for 5 pieces of paper. For 20 bucks or so you get 50 pieces.
Mike -2Lane
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 03:38 AM

Quote:

Buddha - can you see a significant difference between the odorless mineral spirits and the "odored" mineral spirits? Especially in the amount of "orange peel"? I'm two coats into doing the lawn tractor and I don't feel as though I'm getting as smooth coats as I'm seeing from some of the other folks. I'm still using the odorless spirits and I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth the effort to track down some of the other kind. I had to take last week and the weekend off (out of town) but hope to pick it back up this weekend for coats 3 and 4.




I am using orderless too and I have very little orange peel.. it looks a little lighter than the OEM paint jobs at its worse.. I am using tinted pastel StopsRust paint though.. don't know if it makes a difference. It dries very fast. Well, about 2-3 hours the tacky feeling goes away but still can feel it a being a little soft.. then 5-7 hours it is rock hard and passes the alien nail scratch test. I am putting thin coats though.. Thinner than what Buddha is doing I think.. and bubbles pop almost instantly.

-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 03:48 AM

I just checked out the website for industrial abrasives and here's some info:
50 pack of wet/dry silicon carbide (black)$16.00
that's for any grit 1000 and up - to 2000 if you
want that high.
Also, 100 pack of 600 grit wet/dry SC $27.00
up to 2000 grit also. I haven't bought sandpaper in along time so maybe I'm off base with the prices. I was just hoping that this can help.
Mike 2Lane
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 05:43 AM

I wanted to ask a question. I recently jumped in and started this paint job even though some parts of my body aren't in top shape. I have a few dings here and there, but wanted my car at least 1 color since I finally have time over spring break. Over summer is when I planned on doing body work.
I have some rage gold as well as z-grip made by evercoat. Would it be best to sand it back down to bare metal? Or do you think the body filler would be fine on top of some of the enamel if i sand it a bit for the body filler to bite onto.
Posted By: batjac

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 05:48 AM

Bakuryu, I didn't want to mention it before, but since you're starting over... If I were you, I'd pull off the windshield washer spray nozzles. It should be an easy pull, and it'll make the sanding on that part of the car easier. If the paint's adhered already, you can just trim around it with a #11 Xacto knife blade. Also, you could repaint them black again using bumper trim paint. Just a suggestion.

Mark
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 11:05 AM

Quote:

I am using orderless too and I have very little orange peel.. it looks a little lighter than the OEM paint jobs at its worse.. I am using tinted pastel StopsRust paint though.. don't know if it makes a difference. It dries very fast. Well, about 2-3 hours the tacky feeling goes away but still can feel it a being a little soft.. then 5-7 hours it is rock hard and passes the alien nail scratch test. I am putting thin coats though.. Thinner than what Buddha is doing I think.. and bubbles pop almost instantly.

-Serpent



Understood. I was wondering specifically about the orange peel effect. Using the odorless, I've had no trouble with bubbles, and no trouble with hardness. I've tried to keep the paint as thin as possible without having runs, but it just "appears" that my amount of orange peel is a bit more than others. It is hard to judge though, looking at the smaller photos posted, it can be deceiving. I've been documenting my latest project but don't want to post photos until it's complete. I'm afraid it's going to take longer than I'd like, no time to work on it in the evenings which means it's what I can manage over the weekends. It should get interesting soon as the weather here has finally begun to shift, the dry cool days of spring are coming to an end quickly and the uber-muggy Florida summer is settling in.
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 11:05 AM

Thanks for the compliment, Ricklandia. After the trunk lid, I have a rust free fender to practice on. By then, I should be ready to do the rest of the car!

For the record, I picked up several grits of wet sanding paper at my local Pep Boys - 400, 600, 800, 1000 and 1200 grit.
I am using Stop Rust Rustoleum and odorless mineral spirits. It dries rock hard the same day, I get zero bubbles, and ,little to no orange peel.
I will mention again, that I run a dehumidifier in my basement full time, so there is very little excess moisture in the air while I am doing this.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/18/06 11:05 PM

For the people interested in 100% mineral spirits, I just saw it at SEARS for $1.99 a qt. The can is in the painting area, it is blue and "E-Z" brand
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/19/06 12:03 AM

ok... this paint is awesome.. like I mentioned before it started raining just after I put my second coat.. not hard.. just a light drizzle and the paint was dry enough that I could lightly blot out all of the rain drops.. as soon as I would finsih itd start raining again for a bit. Well, after about 6-7 hours in that type of weather the paint seemed dry enough so I put the car back together (I have to strip the lights, window sweeps and tape each time I paint )and when I woke up the next morning the car was swimming. It rained until about 2pm. On the way to work I was stuck behind a semi chucking all kinds of road debriss at me too .. The paint has a cool effect on the water because it creates giant water drops. On my way back home I picked up another quart of the tinted pastel (just intime too.. running very low on 3rd coat) and ended up getting home late..

Anyway.. the paint rocks..

The next thing I learned was NOT TO SAND IN THE DARK! haaa.... I thought I would feel my way through it.. I didn't miss a spot, I am sure, but I did gloss over parts I should have worked more- like where I got a drip or where I got medium amounts orange peel for laying the paint on too heavy. When I first started sanding I spent wayyyy to long in one spot and basically I think I sanding off both coats of paint.. d'oh! By the end I was a wet-sanding master. Next time I am going to sand in the daylight!

Put 3rd coat on today and I can still see through the paint. I think it is because I am putting it on a little too thin. I'll just finish this process with some extra coats.

It will probably be two more weeks before I finish this project because I still need to fix my ground effects and paint them and order my new hood, wing, car badges (damn things are expensive!) rims and tires..

I was getting a lot of compliments today while working on it in the aprtment complex. The kids seem to gravitate towards my wet paint, too. The other day I got offered a beer by some guy in a 95-ish camaro.. seems like the people around here are pretty cool about me making a mess haha.

Wetsanding is a little messy..

I have pictures of each step so far except after the 2nd coat.. I took pictures of it after I wet sanded it.

If I quit painting after the coats completely cover the orignal paint I would be happy and satisfied! Even without polishing. Unpolished the paint doesnt look so bad. However, I am going to follow through with this and if I have the chance I will probably do the 10 coats.

I don't have a problem with contamination outside. Even with all the dynamic elements present in doing this project outside my only real problem is that I seem to be sheeding. I got a few of my arm hairs in my paint. Oh- and my new enemy- POLLEN!

-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/19/06 03:26 AM

Im very excited about this topic. I've been doing my research and reading as many post as i can. I'm planning to turn my dark green Integra into a nice gloss White.

My questions is..for the wetsanding process, are you "hand" sanding everything? or using a sander?. or does it mater?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/19/06 03:52 AM

where do you guys get the foam rollers? i cant seem to find them anywhere...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/19/06 04:07 AM

the rollers are the small 4 inch ones

not the super big ones. theyre white and say ultra on them i believe
Posted By: noisydart

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/19/06 04:10 AM

You get the small rollers at Home Depot!
(by the way this has been a great thread- I was the one to give it a star rating in the beginning)
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/19/06 04:11 AM

Quote:

Im very excited about this topic. I've been doing my research and reading as many post as i can. I'm planning to turn my dark green Integra into a nice gloss White.

My questions is..for the wetsanding process, are you "hand" sanding everything? or using a sander?. or does it mater?




Hand sand it.. it doesn't take a lot of work, a sander would be way overkill and you could do more damage than good. Do use some kind of block. I have used those 3m sanding "sponges", they come in 60, 100, 150 grit etc. I like the 150 grit as the 60 grit has too coarse a surface for a nice smooth surface. They might have higher than 150 in which case I'd get one of those, but I've used 150.

They are soft but firm enough, just wrap them
in your wetsanding paper and dunk the whole thing into your water.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/19/06 04:13 AM

Quote:

where do you guys get the foam rollers? i cant seem to find them anywhere...




I have seen them at every paint store I've been to, along with the other rollers.. they have always been white. Sherwin williams has them, but like their other stuff, they were way overpriced so you can get them at home depot, lowes, other paint stores etc.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/19/06 05:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

where do you guys get the foam rollers? i cant seem to find them anywhere...




I have seen them at every paint store I've been to, along with the other rollers.. they have always been white. Sherwin williams has them, but like their other stuff, they were way overpriced so you can get them at home depot, lowes, other paint stores etc.




wow how do you wetsand, everytime i wetsand, by the end my back my elbow and my feet ache soo bad, i have to continuously sand one area for a few minutes to get it smooth, anways, my third coat dried and i wetsanded it and got the 4th coat on. I wetsanded and got about 85% of the peels out and well rest...i got lazy hahah, besides they were smooth not bummpy but just spotted dunno why. I have pics of the tHird coat and 4th Coat done not the wetsand in betwee though, i will post pics tommorow.

PS: I need help, my dads friend, who garage i'm using, is getting angry saying the chemical paint smell is going through his whole house and to leave the garage door open, both of them when painting and so i did on this 4th Coat and man o man, soo many small pollen / dirt hair type stuff is gettin on my paint, they were gettin on earlier too but not tooo many.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/19/06 01:21 PM

Quote:



wow how do you wetsand, everytime i wetsand, by the end my back my elbow and my feet ache soo bad, i have to continuously sand one area for a few minutes to get it smooth, anways, my third coat dried and i wetsanded it and got the 4th coat on. I wetsanded and got about 85% of the peels out and well rest...i got lazy hahah, besides they were smooth not bummpy but just spotted dunno why. I have pics of the tHird coat and 4th Coat done not the wetsand in betwee though, i will post pics tommorow.





I never had much of any orange peel.. it always looked like it would be orange peely for a good 30 minutes after I painted it, but when I came back a few hours later, it was smooth on its own.

Sorry to hear about your pollen problem.. they will wetsand out I hope.
Posted By: ct71rr

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/19/06 02:22 PM

Hello, this is my first post!! This topic rocks!Just a quick question. Has anyone tried to apply decals over the paint?? Say, a strobe stripe kit for instance. Will it work??
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/19/06 02:40 PM

Quote:

Hello, this is my first post!! This topic rocks!Just a quick question. Has anyone tried to apply decals over the paint?? Say, a strobe stripe kit for instance. Will it work??




yes, no issues, just wait about a month before you apply them, de wax with mineral spirits and a rag before.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/19/06 10:13 PM

I"m definetly going to try this method on my "a-team" van project. Problem is I'm doing the work in the driveway so I need to know how long I need for drying time beofre rain. I'm excited to give it a shot. Hopefully I'll be able to get a chance to start on the hood or more this weekend.
Posted By: ct71rr

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/19/06 10:13 PM

Thanks for the quick response. You the man!!! What's your best guesstemate for how long the paint will last?? Your charger looks pissa, by the way!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 02:13 AM

meh, seems as though im having a tough time finding things... i dont have a home depot here... so... where did you guys find the 100% mineral spirits? I have checked lowes, walmart, kmart, sears (we have a small sears here), and the family center... have yet to find it...

also, will these rollers work?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 02:59 AM

alright, my search will contine tomorrow... if i dont find it ill have to order it online, which will be ~$16 shipped for a gallon. How much do i actually need? Is a gallon enough?
Posted By: Q5RR

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 03:27 AM

I think in earlier posts they said a gallon would thin enough paint for a whole car.

Look for paint thinner. It should say 100% mineral spirits on the can somewhere.

Good luck!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 03:30 AM

Quote:


also, will these rollers work?





I would not use those rollers, I have seen the yellow ones like that and the foam is not as smooth as the ultra smooth foam rollers you should be using.

Do you have a store that sells just paint in your area? They would most likely have the mineral spirits (sometimes called "Paint Thinner (100% Mineral Spirits)", and the dense foam rollers.

Here is a pic of the rollers I've used, next to mineral spirits disguised as "Paint Thinner". These rollers are from Home Depot but im pretty sure lowes has the same ones. Local sherwin williams has a similar kind (they have ALL been white) but were more $.

Posted By: Anonymous

. . . - 04/20/06 03:46 AM

First of all, thanks Charger for this awesome method.

I've been reading through the posts for a while now, and everything is starting to become a little confusing. Someone should definately write up a complete walkthrough that is ideal in creating the best finish possible. You could include items used and procedures. That would be fantastic. Please?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 04:24 AM

Quote:

First of all, thanks Charger for this awesome method.

I've been reading through the posts for a while now, and everything is starting to become a little confusing. Someone should definately write up a complete walkthrough that is ideal in creating the best finish possible. You could include items used and procedures. That would be fantastic. Please?




Here's a quick summary- thin rustoleum with mineral spirits to a watery consistency, apply a very thin coat using a 4" high density foam roller. wait till it dries completely, then repeat. wait till it dries, then wetsand with 600 grit.

repeat that 2 more times, switching to 800 then 1000 grit. then apply one coat, and wetsand with 2000.

I dont think there's complete agreement on how to produce the best possible finish. In fact the sanding procedure i just wrote I dont think has been tried yet in that precise way. But I think I'll try it that way the next time I try this.

It's still a work in progress and as more people try it and post their results, we'll get a better idea of the best steps to take.

At this point, there is insufficient evidence to write up any final procedure on the best way..

By the way, who changed the title to "..."? It has been "Re: paint job on a budget!?" since the beginning... so im putting it back..


Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 05:14 AM

How are you keeping from buinring through to the nexr layer and get spots?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 05:50 AM

Quote:

How are you keeping from buinring through to the nexr layer and get spots?




Thats why i'm doing 3 coats and wetsand with 800grit then 3 coats more and wetsand with 1500 and then 1 Coat and wetsand with 2000 and polish, cuz at this point, i'm totally out of time i had 1 MONTH to get thi done cuz i had Temporary Tags from my mVA and i needed to get inspection but never had time cuz car was always lookin dirty and still wet, but its at a point where i WILL DRIVe it lOL (REFER to previous posts of the car)
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 06:45 AM

DON'T use those yellow rollers. Those are what I tried my first two coats and they were not good. I went and got the white ones and they make all the difference.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 12:02 PM

Ok so I finally got time off work and life and I'm going to get something fairly large off a junk car to test on (since I would like to paint my car this way but want to test first). Now just a rundown, this is what I have on my list to get from home depot:

Rustoleum Flat White (in the can)
Ultra fine 3m sand paper (wet or dry use)
4" Small professional foam rollers (ultra smooth white)
Mineral spirits (non odorless)
small tray for paint
handle for foam roller
small foam paint brush
turtle wax compound

Pretty much everything I believe? Let me know if I'm missing some things or not.

And I've been searching but can't find it, what was the paint to mineral spirits ratio? I know I saw it listed but theres so many pages and posts its hard to find.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 12:59 PM

Quote:

Ok so I finally got time off work and life and I'm going to get something fairly large off a junk car to test on (since I would like to paint my car this way but want to test first). Now just a rundown, this is what I have on my list to get from home depot:

Rustoleum Flat White (in the can)
Ultra fine 3m sand paper (wet or dry use)
4" Small professional foam rollers (ultra smooth white)
Mineral spirits (non odorless)
small tray for paint
handle for foam roller
small foam paint brush
turtle wax compound

Pretty much everything I believe? Let me know if I'm missing some things or not.

And I've been searching but can't find it, what was the paint to mineral spirits ratio? I know I saw it listed but theres so many pages and posts its hard to find.




a 100$ Check written in Chargers name and ready to mail if the process work.

PS: Same thing for me
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 01:19 PM

Quote:

Ok so I finally got time off work and life and I'm going to get something fairly large off a junk car to test on (since I would like to paint my car this way but want to test first). Now just a rundown, this is what I have on my list to get from home depot:

Rustoleum Flat White (in the can)
Ultra fine 3m sand paper (wet or dry use)
4" Small professional foam rollers (ultra smooth white)
Mineral spirits (non odorless)
small tray for paint
handle for foam roller
small foam paint brush
turtle wax compound

Pretty much everything I believe? Let me know if I'm missing some things or not.

And I've been searching but can't find it, what was the paint to mineral spirits ratio? I know I saw it listed but theres so many pages and posts its hard to find.




I haven't seen non-odorless at any home depot in Sac, but Kelly Moore has it for about 6.00 a gallon.

I dont know if Home depot carries the sandpaper you'll need either, but walmart does in the car care section with the bondo.
Posted By: Q5RR

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 01:59 PM

Quote:


Rustoleum Flat White (in the can)
Ultra fine 3m sand paper (wet or dry use)
4" Small professional foam rollers (ultra smooth white)
Mineral spirits (non odorless)
small tray for paint
handle for foam roller
small foam paint brush
turtle wax compound






I think you want gloss white, not flat.
Posted By: slantvaliant

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 02:37 PM

Thanks to 69chargeryeehaw and all the other contributors, there is now a very white '64 Valiant parked outside.

Before:


After:


I used Rustoleum Professional (Gloss White) in a gallon can, mineral spirits (after a test with acetone), foam rollers from Ace Hardware, green 3M sanding pads for prep, 800 and 1000 grit for wetsanding with a sponge, water, and a drop of dish soap, recycled spray bottle, masking tape, newspaper, Turtle Wax brand polishing compound, and a fair amount of time.

Lessons learned:
I am not very good at body work.
I am not very good at painting.
Little strokes fell great oaks.
This technique works.

The paint has flaws. Runs, some places where the roller method is discernable, and my cruddy bodywork. However, it looks SO MUCH BETTER than it did before. It shines where it hasn't in a decade, and I'm getting compliments on it every day.

Now, back to mechanical issues ....
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 03:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Ok so I finally got time off work and life and I'm going to get something fairly large off a junk car to test on (since I would like to paint my car this way but want to test first). Now just a rundown, this is what I have on my list to get from home depot:

Rustoleum Flat White (in the can)
Ultra fine 3m sand paper (wet or dry use)
4" Small professional foam rollers (ultra smooth white)
Mineral spirits (non odorless)
small tray for paint
handle for foam roller
small foam paint brush
turtle wax compound

Pretty much everything I believe? Let me know if I'm missing some things or not.

And I've been searching but can't find it, what was the paint to mineral spirits ratio? I know I saw it listed but theres so many pages and posts its hard to find.




a 100$ Check written in Chargers name and ready to mail if the process work.

PS: Same thing for me





Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 03:07 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the quick response. You the man!!! What's your best guesstemate for how long the paint will last?? Your charger looks pissa, by the way!!




6yrs/35000mi and counting on the orange bug.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 03:10 PM

Quote:

Lessons learned:
I am not very good at body work.
I am not very good at painting.
Little strokes fell great oaks.
This technique works.

The paint has flaws. Runs, some places where the roller method is discernable, and my cruddy bodywork. However, it looks SO MUCH BETTER than it did before. It shines where it hasn't in a decade, and I'm getting compliments on it every day.

Now, back to mechanical issues ....




Slantvaliant - funny, at least your honest, immagine if you took your time, and knew what you know now!!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 03:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Lessons learned:
I am not very good at body work.
I am not very good at painting.
Little strokes fell great oaks.
This technique works.

The paint has flaws. Runs, some places where the roller method is discernable, and my cruddy bodywork. However, it looks SO MUCH BETTER than it did before. It shines where it hasn't in a decade, and I'm getting compliments on it every day.

Now, back to mechanical issues ....




Slantvaliant - funny, at least your honest, immagine if you took your time, and knew what you know now!!!!





Mine will be done by this weekend lIKE COMPLETELY Buffing and everything, turning out very very SICK righ tnow!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 03:48 PM

Hey guys, heres a sneak peak of my car currently with 4th coat done and dry


Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 04:36 PM

Lookin sweet bakuryu. There's nothing like the look of a freshly painted car..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 05:10 PM

hey ya'll

if anyone is interested i found a site with car paint for cheap... i konw it defeats the whole purpose of this topic and roll on etc...but w/e http://www.smartshoppersinc.com/modified-acrylic/custom-finishes.html
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 06:01 PM

Hopefully charger see's this message now. I asked before but it seems lost

Hey charger i went and painted my car, and it looks great now compared to the black/grey oxidized 240sx i had before. Before, I thought my body was pretty straight, few dings here and there and i thought it would be fine. I guess it was the color that hid everything so well. Now after painting, i see the dings. I was able to paint my car now because of spring break, but now I want to fix my body work up during the summer. When I want to fix my body with body filler, do you think I should sand down to metal, or just sand with enough grit so that the body filler can grab onto paint. What do you recommend? Thanks
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 07:00 PM

bodyfiller doesnt grab onto paint...sand it enuff so u see the baremetal...and trust me lay it down smooooooooooth dont have a thick layer...also take a look at this http://www.autobody101.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=5
Posted By: roe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 07:01 PM

Quote:


Lessons learned:
I am not very good at body work.
I am not very good at painting.
Little strokes fell great oaks.
This technique works.

Now, back to mechanical issues ....




Car looks great. As soon as my car is back on the road, its definately getting painted with rustoleum. I've been telling people about it, and they're skeptical. But wait until I get it finished. I'll probably go with a lighter color like the sand or something. I may even get a few colors and mix up my own color, who knows.

But thanks to 69Charger for the method, and all the rest of the guys for posting your results. Pretty soon, there are gonna be roller jobs everywhere.

roe
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 09:24 PM

I'm not really into the gloss white, I've seen a lot of flat white out there and it looks nice in my opinion, but we will see, I'll probably get a few colors.
Posted By: batjac

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 10:15 PM

This is an awesome thread. I'm probably going to be doing this on my car. But, even though the internet is a great resource, don't forget your local library. I went to the library yesterday to check out a video I knew they had on bodywork, and noticed that they had a 60 minute video tape titled "Color Sanding & Buffing". I just finished watching it, and it's a great tape. It even had great advice on how to deal with drips and runs. Makes me much more confident about the sanding portion of this process. Y'all might want to take a quick trip to the local library and see what they have sitting on the shelf.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 11:25 PM

Awesome thread. Got a few questions. I live in CA and I seen a couple people were having problems getting paint to stick that also live in CA. Can I still do this with profession grade or industrial or perhaps another brand like glidden in CA, or am I gonna have to import some paint in from OR,NV or AZ? -Isaac
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 11:47 PM

Quote:

Awesome thread. Got a few questions. I live in CA and I seen a couple people were having problems getting paint to stick that also live in CA. Can I still do this with profession grade or industrial or perhaps another brand like glidden in CA, or am I gonna have to import some paint in from OR,NV or AZ? -Isaac




Rustoleum says there is no difference in the formula between states for quarts. VOC is apparently not regulated in quarts as it is in gallons. So the paint you buy in quarts should be the same as people can buy elsewhere.

I was one of the californians having issues, but now I'm certain it was due to the weather I was painting in, and not giving the coats enough time to dry before recoating them. Thus the layers I put on above were going over still "wet" paint that stayed soft, so the whole paint surface (all layers of paint) were sitting upon soft, uncured paint.

As long as you give it time to dry and don't have any oil or wax on the surface you should be fine.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/20/06 11:55 PM

Quote:

Hopefully charger see's this message now. I asked before but it seems lost

Hey charger i went and painted my car, and it looks great now compared to the black/grey oxidized 240sx i had before. Before, I thought my body was pretty straight, few dings here and there and i thought it would be fine. I guess it was the color that hid everything so well. Now after painting, i see the dings. I was able to paint my car now because of spring break, but now I want to fix my body work up during the summer. When I want to fix my body with body filler, do you think I should sand down to metal, or just sand with enough grit so that the body filler can grab onto paint. What do you recommend? Thanks




i'd sand down to at least the original paint with 80-100, then bondo, then repaint. problem is if you dont do a big enough area then you'll see the body work, just like u see the dents/dings, maybe re-do the whole car?
Posted By: admactanium

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/21/06 05:45 AM

Quote:

Awesome thread. Got a few questions. I live in CA and I seen a couple people were having problems getting paint to stick that also live in CA. Can I still do this with profession grade or industrial or perhaps another brand like glidden in CA, or am I gonna have to import some paint in from OR,NV or AZ? -Isaac



i think that was more a matter of differing techniques than anything else. i'm using a product called xo rust and it hardens up just fine given enough time to dry.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/21/06 07:59 AM

Hi there,
first of all, thanx to 69charger for sharing this awesome method. I think you have become some what of a star around the web!

Unfortunately, I dont own a mopar or any classics for that matter. I actually drive a Civic (which is apparently the new hot rod these days). This thread has actually spread around quite a few honda forums, and making quite a buzz. Since a lot of civic owners are young and of course poor...this is almost a perfect alternative; at least it is for me.

My civic has a lot of body work to be done this summer before paint. This maybe a stupid question since this is rust paint, but has anyone actually gone through a winter with this paint before? 69charger as you know the Canadian winter and salty roads here can be very harsh. And I am assuming you dont drive ur 69 charger in the winter?

Anyway, I've been reading this thread everyday for the last few weeks and decided to join because my exams are almost over and I want to start working on my car. Seems like a lot of knowledgable ppl here that I can hopefully get help from. Hope you guys dont discriminate imports!! j/k

Steve

Attached picture 2569843-DSCN3533.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/21/06 12:59 PM

Here is my first coat, lightly applied around the car, after first experimenting on a hood. Seems to be laying out well. Also sry to be posting in your guys forums, but I dont know where else to post and figured you wouldn't mind seeing some results.



Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/21/06 01:21 PM

Looks good Tbeesh, you are keeping the layers nice and thin. Should dry hard and smooth..
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/21/06 01:36 PM

Quote:

Hi there,
first of all, thanx to 69charger for sharing this awesome method. I think you have become some what of a star around the web!

Unfortunately, I dont own a mopar or any classics for that matter. I actually drive a Civic (which is apparently the new hot rod these days). This thread has actually spread around quite a few honda forums, and making quite a buzz. Since a lot of civic owners are young and of course poor...this is almost a perfect alternative; at least it is for me.

My civic has a lot of body work to be done this summer before paint. This maybe a stupid question since this is rust paint, but has anyone actually gone through a winter with this paint before? 69charger as you know the Canadian winter and salty roads here can be very harsh. And I am assuming you dont drive ur 69 charger in the winter?

Anyway, I've been reading this thread everyday for the last few weeks and decided to join because my exams are almost over and I want to start working on my car. Seems like a lot of knowledgable ppl here that I can hopefully get help from. Hope you guys dont discriminate imports!! j/k

Steve




steve - i did drive my charger all winter, it was sooo mild, and i only drove it when the roads were dry, but the first car i painted with this technique was about 15yrs ago, a old honda 1985 CRX that i painted black, i put huge miles on that car and 3 winters/summers, and about 400,000kms on the paint, held up great.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/21/06 02:41 PM

Steve




steve - i did drive my charger all winter, it was sooo mild, and i only drove it when the roads were dry, but the first car i painted with this technique was about 15yrs ago, a old honda 1985 CRX that i painted black, i put huge miles on that car and 3 winters/summers, and about 400,000kms on the paint, held up great.





Hey 69Charger,
thanx for the reply. I completely forgot about your CRX and also how much experience you have with this technique.

As you know, honda's are nutorious for rust forming near the rear wheel wells - which im currently having right now. Rust is my biggest fear right now - and I dont want to have do repair to it after every winter. I have no acess to a welder - so all fiberglass work. Since tremclad is a rust paint, this gives me a lil' piece of mind.

Does anyone have any experience with those "rust-convertor" products? Do they work? Im planning to spray/brush the inside of the panels to slow down the rusting process. Also, is it wise to paint it on the outer portion too and then paint over it? Or is this rather redundant since tremclad/rustoleum is suppose to "stop rust"?

thanks

steve
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/21/06 06:56 PM

well one main cause of that rust forming at the rear wheel wells for older hondas is because of a rubber piece covering the rear wheel fender (i think thats what its called). All the salt and stuff get stuck there and that causes the rust. You just peel the rubber off from the rear wheel fenders. Doesn't seem to hurt anything to remove it.
Did this for my 96 accord, and I hear 98 accords and up no longer have it.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/21/06 10:59 PM

i allways took them off, packed the channel with grease, them put them back on, those rubber strips really hold alot of crap and water causing rust. also i would spray wd40 in the gastank filler area once a month, they rust fast too espically on crx's.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/22/06 02:58 AM

ok I am getting pretty good at this!

What I found out:
My first 3 coats were far too thin. When I did a light sand after you 2nd coat I had to worry about eatting right through it. For my "fourth" coat I put it down at what I would say is a more normal thickness. I got a bit of noticable orange peel but it was easy to sand out with 600gt. I am going to just consider it my second coat since now I have about 95% coverage after my sanding. I also learned how to get the surface really smooth in the process. The sanding is almost therapeudic but tedious. My car is looking really good now but I can see I need to do more body work. I have 3 small spots I need to sand down and rework... but I will just do it after I finish the process I guess. I can live with some unnoticable blemishes. When I laid down the 4th coat and got more orangepeel I was worried I wasn't going to have a nice final finish. After the wetsanding I am not really worried at all. I am expecting to have a nice, shiny surface.

The other day someone opened their car door on my door and screwed up my paint.. it was an easy fix. Then I was thinking if I had paid that 1700$+ macco job I wouldn't have been so laidback about it.

With the money I saved I bought new rims, tires, and 2" spacers.. cost 1500$ and look nice. Well, it goes more than saving money from just painting it at Maaco's.. Since this is my daily driver (I strip it down almost every day to work on it ) I would have needed a rental car while mine was in the shop.

Bakuryu, did you have any probs with putting thin coats?

-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/22/06 04:04 AM

Hey Man
As I read your post, it seemed you were documenting my journey on this paint process. I've done 2 coats, *very thin* and when I wet sanded, it seemed I was back down to almost one coat. After applying the 3rd hours ago, the car is now 95% covered. Im figuring when the fourth goes on, it will be completely covered, and that if I use the 800 grit, I can probably do a good sanding, while not removing any coats, and smoothing out my surface. the 5th and 6th will be definate coats, no covering up any uncovered spots. Refer to my previous post a couple posts ago to see how thin my first coat was.

Needless to say, it seems like I am still on the right path and that so far I have made few to no errors in my process. After laying out the 3rd coat, the car is finally taking form and starting to look like a respectable car once again. I can only imagine what 3 more coats, a good buffing, and a polishing like this cars never seen before, will do for my baby.

Good luck man, post pictures! Ill get you some more tomorrow when paint is dry.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/22/06 05:51 AM

Quote:

ok I am getting pretty good at this!

What I found out:
My first 3 coats were far too thin. When I did a light sand after you 2nd coat I had to worry about eatting right through it. For my "fourth" coat I put it down at what I would say is a more normal thickness. I got a bit of noticable orange peel but it was easy to sand out with 600gt. I am going to just consider it my second coat since now I have about 95% coverage after my sanding. I also learned how to get the surface really smooth in the process. The sanding is almost therapeudic but tedious. My car is looking really good now but I can see I need to do more body work. I have 3 small spots I need to sand down and rework... but I will just do it after I finish the process I guess. I can live with some unnoticable blemishes. When I laid down the 4th coat and got more orangepeel I was worried I wasn't going to have a nice final finish. After the wetsanding I am not really worried at all. I am expecting to have a nice, shiny surface.

The other day someone opened their car door on my door and screwed up my paint.. it was an easy fix. Then I was thinking if I had paid that 1700$+ macco job I wouldn't have been so laidback about it.

With the money I saved I bought new rims, tires, and 2" spacers.. cost 1500$ and look nice. Well, it goes more than saving money from just painting it at Maaco's.. Since this is my daily driver (I strip it down almost every day to work on it ) I would have needed a rental car while mine was in the shop.

Bakuryu, did you have any probs with putting thin coats?

-Serpent




Heres the thing with my car serpent. I DID excellent body work when i was originally taking the red dirty color got it all out smooth, but i didnt take out some of the dings, then i painted it dark gray and did a slopppy job of it, too thick, then too thin and then just perfect but by that time i had already spent 50$+ and wasted over 2 WEEKS, now the white is turning out really nice, i'm doing thin coats and when i said i pretty much kill about 50% of the layer that i put and you can sorta see the the previous coat, thats why i'm doing 3 COATS and then wetsanding. so i did 1 coat 2 coat 3 coats wetsand and it was down to 2.5COATS lol Soo far i have the car painted 4coats(had to take it to inspection), gonna lay down 2 more coats as perfectly as i can and then wetsand with 1500 and it'll b down to 5 COATS, then i'll do 1 LAST 7th COAt and wetsand that with 2000GRIT and polish. I got this whole thing planned out, hopefully it will execute well.


question for charger its suppose to rain over the weekend the current coat has over 48HOURS of dry time, think the rain will hurt it in anyway?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/22/06 09:20 AM

any sanding tips?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/22/06 04:08 PM

Quote:

... Good luck man, post pictures! Ill get you some more tomorrow when paint is dry.






Ok, here are some pictures of my car so far. I don't have any pics of my "4th" coat and sanding. I am just going to consider it my 2nd coat anyway because the first 3 were far to thin, I think.

1st coat:

Large Image


Large Image


Large Image
Ok, this one is cheating a little because 1) I am painting a white car white and 2) it doesn't show all of the lower part of the door which had more prep work done on it.

2nd Coat:

Large Image


Large Image
A bad pick because the sun is washing out the image. Better viewed at high rez.


Large Image


Sanded:

Large Image


Large Image

Anyway, the 3rd coat looked more or less the same but with a little more coverage. I let it dry and then put a "normal" 4th coat and it finally started to cover everything up.

Cheers ^_^

-Serpent
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/22/06 04:32 PM

Quote:

question for charger its suppose to rain over the weekend the current coat has over 48HOURS of dry time, think the rain will hurt it in anyway?




absoultly not, go for it, rain will do nothing to the paint after 48 hours, think about it, after 10 or so hours your wetsanding.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/22/06 04:58 PM



I painted my car's second coat and it started drizzling immediatly after. I lightly blotted out the drops that hit my car. They beaded up on the surface and just sat there. There were light showers on and off but nothing that really drowned my car for about 5-7 hours. I went back and put my car together and the paint was still a little soft in places but good enough to not worry about it. Over night it poured out. My paint was fine. So dont worry.. just go for it. And remember water and oil dont mix well... the water will just bead up.
-serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/22/06 04:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

question for charger its suppose to rain over the weekend the current coat has over 48HOURS of dry time, think the rain will hurt it in anyway?




absoultly not, go for it, rain will do nothing to the paint after 48 hours, think about it, after 10 or so hours your wetsanding.




Ok thanks, just had to leave it out cuz it got too late to take it to friends garage, man i need to hurry it up and finish.

Another question Charger, i have small QUARTER dings here and there on my car, and now that i look at it i regret not bodoi'ing them before painting, can i sand it down to metal those spots bondo and then spray paint it with the Rust-oleum spray, is it the same viscocity?

PS: For somereason i cant see the thread past 30pages, its cuz of my resolution im on 1280X1152
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/22/06 06:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

ok I am getting pretty good at this!

What I found out:
My first 3 coats were far too thin. When I did a light sand after you 2nd coat I had to worry about eatting right through it. For my "fourth" coat I put it down at what I would say is a more normal thickness. I got a bit of noticable orange peel but it was easy to sand out with 600gt. I am going to just consider it my second coat since now I have about 95% coverage after my sanding. I also learned how to get the surface really smooth in the process. The sanding is almost therapeudic but tedious. My car is looking really good now but I can see I need to do more body work. I have 3 small spots I need to sand down and rework... but I will just do it after I finish the process I guess. I can live with some unnoticable blemishes. When I laid down the 4th coat and got more orangepeel I was worried I wasn't going to have a nice final finish. After the wetsanding I am not really worried at all. I am expecting to have a nice, shiny surface.

The other day someone opened their car door on my door and screwed up my paint.. it was an easy fix. Then I was thinking if I had paid that 1700$+ macco job I wouldn't have been so laidback about it.

With the money I saved I bought new rims, tires, and 2" spacers.. cost 1500$ and look nice. Well, it goes more than saving money from just painting it at Maaco's.. Since this is my daily driver (I strip it down almost every day to work on it ) I would have needed a rental car while mine was in the shop.

Bakuryu, did you have any probs with putting thin coats?

-Serpent




Heres the thing with my car serpent. I DID excellent body work when i was originally taking the red dirty color got it all out smooth, but i didnt take out some of the dings, then i painted it dark gray and did a slopppy job of it, too thick, then too thin and then just perfect but by that time i had already spent 50$+ and wasted over 2 WEEKS, now the white is turning out really nice, i'm doing thin coats and when i said i pretty much kill about 50% of the layer that i put and you can sorta see the the previous coat, thats why i'm doing 3 COATS and then wetsanding. so i did 1 coat 2 coat 3 coats wetsand and it was down to 2.5COATS lol Soo far i have the car painted 4coats(had to take it to inspection), gonna lay down 2 more coats as perfectly as i can and then wetsand with 1500 and it'll b down to 5 COATS, then i'll do 1 LAST 7th COAt and wetsand that with 2000GRIT and polish. I got this whole thing planned out, hopefully it will execute well.


question for charger its suppose to rain over the weekend the current coat has over 48HOURS of dry time, think the rain will hurt it in anyway?




ya man, I was just asking if you had a prob with the thin paint. I wasn't implying anything about your body work. You did exellent body work.. thanks for pointing it out . I spent a lot of time on the body of my car too but 2 or 3 spots could be done better. I don't think the thin painting technique was a result of my subpar bodywork.

-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/22/06 10:26 PM

Changed my site around slightly so it has more navigation and the painting stuff is all in one area.

http://www.davidh74.plus.com/
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/22/06 11:13 PM

then will these rollers work? its a little blurry, but should do justice.

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/23/06 12:42 AM

Those'll work!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/23/06 04:10 AM

Anyone tried the Wagnor power sprayer?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/23/06 05:18 AM

sweeeeet, imma start painting the spoiler tomorrow! ill keep ya updated!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/23/06 02:37 PM

Okay, I have a couple questions for 69 charger. First, if you refer to my first post on the top of this page, was that too thin for a coat? Most of my coats have been about that thickness. Several members seem to think that putting 3 coats and then sanding is a better plan, whats your thoughts on this? I would think too much debris would be buried in the 3 coats, and a simple wetsand would not be sufficient in getting them out. Im currently following your process, and on my 6th coat as we speak. Tonight I wetsand, buff, and polish. Oh, and a question about the final wetsand, is it 1000 then 1500, 1000 through 1500, or 1000 or 1500? I was kinda confused on that.
Thanks a lot for the help, and I will be posting pictures shortly.

Sam
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/23/06 05:22 PM

Quote:

Okay, I have a couple questions for 69 charger. First, if you refer to my first post on the top of this page, was that too thin for a coat? Most of my coats have been about that thickness. Several members seem to think that putting 3 coats and then sanding is a better plan, whats your thoughts on this? I would think too much debris would be buried in the 3 coats, and a simple wetsand would not be sufficient in getting them out. Im currently following your process, and on my 6th coat as we speak. Tonight I wetsand, buff, and polish. Oh, and a question about the final wetsand, is it 1000 then 1500, 1000 through 1500, or 1000 or 1500? I was kinda confused on that.
Thanks a lot for the help, and I will be posting pictures shortly.

Sam




2 coats then a wetsand is better, if you do 3, then you end up having to wetsand alot of paint off to completely get rid of peel, and create more work for yourself, after 2 coats, just a quick wetsand is fine. final grit is 1000-1500, 1500 just meens more work but better results.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/23/06 05:46 PM

I am having a problem with paint residue that has dried after I wetsanded. If I use a damp cloth and work at it I can get it to come off- but it is a lot of work. I can scratch it off with my fingernail though. If I paint over it with fresh paint will the residue absorb the chemcials in the fresh paint and bond with it? I am a little worried that there might be problems with adhesion.
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/23/06 05:47 PM

This thread should be renamed "the way of the roller", kinda like a martial arts course or something
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/23/06 07:27 PM

Hey

THanks for your reply.

Just one question, im 4 hours into the drying of the 6th coat, and I can see some areas where I may have wentover 8 minutes after I painted an area, and I can see visible roller marks. Is this just wet paint? Will these come out with my final wetsand?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/23/06 07:30 PM

Quote:

I am having a problem with paint residue that has dried after I wetsanded. If I use a damp cloth and work at it I can get it to come off- but it is a lot of work. I can scratch it off with my fingernail though. If I paint over it with fresh paint will the residue absorb the chemcials in the fresh paint and bond with it? I am a little worried that there might be problems with adhesion.




it's been mentioned many times, but have a bucket of water while wetsanding, and a cheap shammy, right after wetsanding an area, clean it while its still wet with the shammy, and rinse it often. you'll have no residue, and you should clean the paint after wetsanding with mineral spirits and a rag, followed with a tack cloth before the next coat. don't paint over the residue from wetsanding.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/23/06 07:32 PM

Quote:

Hey

THanks for your reply.

Just one question, im 4 hours into the drying of the 6th coat, and I can see some areas where I may have wentover 8 minutes after I painted an area, and I can see visible roller marks. Is this just wet paint? Will these come out with my final wetsand?




wetsand it out before your next coat, or it'll be more work later, don't work the paint too long.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/23/06 09:17 PM

alright... i had WAY to many bubbles on the 1st coat... how do you cut down on the bubbles?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/23/06 09:55 PM

Quote:

alright... i had WAY to many bubbles on the 1st coat... how do you cut down on the bubbles?




Normally the bubbles will pop on their own if the paint is thin enough. Immediatly after my roller lays down paint I have like 1000 bubbles but within a few seconds they all pop. I haven't had to blow on any bubbles to make them pop. I think someone previously suggested to lightly roll over them with the weight of the roller and that should help.

-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/23/06 09:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I am having a problem with paint residue that has dried after I wetsanded. If I use a damp cloth and work at it I can get it to come off- but it is a lot of work. I can scratch it off with my fingernail though. If I paint over it with fresh paint will the residue absorb the chemcials in the fresh paint and bond with it? I am a little worried that there might be problems with adhesion.




it's been mentioned many times, but have a bucket of water while wetsanding, and a cheap shammy, right after wetsanding an area, clean it while its still wet with the shammy, and rinse it often. you'll have no residue, and you should clean the paint after wetsanding with mineral spirits and a rag, followed with a tack cloth before the next coat. don't paint over the residue from wetsanding.




Damn, I knew I was missing something!

-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/23/06 10:29 PM

WetSanded

Link
Gallery

3rd Coat:

Link

Link


Gallery
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/23/06 10:45 PM

im on the 6th coat though, was under the impression that this was the last coat?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/24/06 02:28 AM

Here is my bug. 3rd coat not sanded yet. I am very happy with the results. I am becoming good with the roller.
The paint has to be very thin and It is important to fix runs quickly with the roller full of paint. To avoid orange peel or if an area has to be retouched, the roller can be passed over the area again (even with fresh or tacky paint) but the roller has to be saturated with paint, completely soaked!. At least this works for me.


If painting outside, the metal has to be cool, it is not good to paint in the middle of the day under the sun.

Attached picture 2575958-DSC_0011.JPG
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/24/06 03:01 AM

That looks great, what color is that?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/24/06 03:10 AM

Quote:

That looks great, what color is that?




It is "Almond" professional stuff
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/24/06 04:15 PM

What brand/type of polish are you guys using to get the deep gloss after the final wetsanding?
What polishing/buffing procedures are you using?
I don't seem to be getting the gloss I was expecting after polishing with Turtle Wax polish and a 6" orbital polisher/buffer.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/24/06 04:45 PM

Hello to all, new guy on your board here. Like so many others I got pointed to this thread off another message board (Grassroots Motorsports). When I first saw it the thread was at 17 pages and I spent a weekend reading it all and have been following it ever since. Looks like I'll be trying this on a 59 Sprite mid to late summer. In the mean time my wife has volunteered (without knowing) to test the method for me. She wants to paint our front metal door so I took her out yesterday to Home Depot for all the fixings. I plan to coach her through it and follow the progress to see how easy it really is. Thanks for what has to be the best thread on the web.
Posted By: batjac

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/25/06 05:37 AM

Hmmmmmm.... 27,292 views, and 1,256 replies in 3 months and 1 day. So, is this a record yet?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/25/06 04:05 PM

I can't believe I read the whooollleee thing! Really though, I think it took 4 or 5 hours but I did it all in one sitting.

Found this from a Jeep board, and to say I am inspired is understatement.

To reiterate others sentiments, thanks 69charger.

Also thanks Exit as I am in Calinazi land, and you had me worried about our paint. Thank you for your willingness to be thorough, test, retest, come back, try again. Thorough is a good word.

Have been wanting a nice paint job for my cherokee (xj), and did not think it would ever be reality due to price and the likelihood of transforming something into an adequate enough booth to have a buddy shoot it for me. BUT... now I know there will be a paint job that I can be very satisfied with, and it really appeals to the do-it-yourself mentality I hold in high regard.

I cannot start this process until June, but I will continue to monitor this post, and when I begin my own project I will post my results.

Thanks to everyone who has posted.

BTW used to have a '70 Dodge Dart Custom with the slant six. It was that nice pale yellow in color with black interior, with green cloth inserts on the seats. Someday I will have another Dart, someday...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/25/06 04:33 PM

Just wanted to say that this post must go down as the outright best post in Moparts history. I remeber reading this thing almost two months ago and to see people still replying to it is unbelievable. Cheers!
Posted By: Just Cameron

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/25/06 06:49 PM

Just read this entire thread. Between this and the experience doing Lita's '55 Buick My goal is to have the PrimerDuster in progress towards being painted as soon as my lease runs out and I can rent a place with a garage. Gonna use the Rustoleum Professional gloss white and flat-black a 6 pack hood. Didn't realize wetsanding would be as simple as dunking a block in a bucket of water. I'm also considering "Recarpeting" it with black Herculiner.

If I can block bondo in the door ding rash smooth enough I'll add a flat black Demon spear stripe.

To everyone who traveled here from other forums for this page, Thank you! Would you guys mind posting links to the threads about this thread on your forums? That'd be cool to check out.
Posted By: Anonymous

The thread on the honda board is still going.... - 04/25/06 07:08 PM

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1555133&page=1
Posted By: roe

Re: The thread on the honda board is still going.... - 04/25/06 11:25 PM

I have a hypothetical question for you guys that have done it.

Earlier, someone said that the gloss doesn't seem to come back all the way after wetsanding. Someone also said that if you lay down a thin enough coat that you will get virtually no orange peel. If you were to do your 8 coats or whatever, then sand it really smooth, and then give it one final thin coat that lays down really smooth, and then go straight to polishing/buffing, how do you think it would turn out?

roe
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: The thread on the honda board is still going.... - 04/26/06 12:06 AM

Quote:

I have a hypothetical question for you guys that have done it.

Earlier, someone said that the gloss doesn't seem to come back all the way after wetsanding. Someone also said that if you lay down a thin enough coat that you will get virtually no orange peel. If you were to do your 8 coats or whatever, then sand it really smooth, and then give it one final thin coat that lays down really smooth, and then go straight to polishing/buffing, how do you think it would turn out?

roe




great but it would be much more work wetsanding at the end.
Posted By: roe

Re: The thread on the honda board is still going.... - 04/26/06 12:10 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I have a hypothetical question for you guys that have done it.

Earlier, someone said that the gloss doesn't seem to come back all the way after wetsanding. Someone also said that if you lay down a thin enough coat that you will get virtually no orange peel. If you were to do your 8 coats or whatever, then sand it really smooth, and then give it one final thin coat that lays down really smooth, and then go straight to polishing/buffing, how do you think it would turn out?

roe




great but it would be much more work wetsanding at the end.




No, I mean if you do every step as you described earlier, but at the end after your final wetsand, you lay on one last really thin coat that lays really flat, and then polish/buff the last coat with out sanding. That way you maintain all the glossiness from the paint and add to it with the polish/buff. You know what I mean?

Thanks for the quick reply

roe
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: The thread on the honda board is still going.... - 04/26/06 12:16 AM

well no matter how good you are with the roller, you'll still get some imperfections that only wetsanding will totally elliminate, if you want that perfect look lol. you could i suppose, but you'll defineatly get better results with a wetsand.
Posted By: roe

Re: The thread on the honda board is still going.... - 04/26/06 12:21 AM

Oh thanks. I was just curious as to if that would be a way to help keep more gloss to the paint. When I do it I wont be looking to achieve a show quality job, I would just want to get it as good as possible. My car is gonna be a daily driver anyway so I just want a respectble paintjob. Besides, the pics that have been posted have plenty enough gloss for me, I was just curious about whether or not I could do that to keep more glossiness to the paint, not trying to have a mirror smooth finish, just glossier.

roe
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/26/06 11:29 AM

Quote:

To everyone who traveled here from other forums for this page, Thank you! Would you guys mind posting links to the threads about this thread on your forums? That'd be cool to check out.




I linked in from: Grassroots Motorsports
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/26/06 01:51 PM

no wonder my photobucket account exceedes the monthly bandwidth in like 2 hours!!!!!
http://s32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/69martin/
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/26/06 02:00 PM

Quote:


To everyone who traveled here from other forums for this page, Thank you! Would you guys mind posting links to the threads about this thread on your forums? That'd be cool to check out.




I linked in at around page 17, have read every page, and have been reading/keeping up todate everyday. Heres the link:
ProbeTalk Forums

Keep the pics coming!
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/26/06 02:15 PM

here's some more high res pics i took last week after i waxed the charger, enjoy
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03362.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03363.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03375.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03384.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03390.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03403.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03405.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03406.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03407.JPG
http://phorce1.us/bug74/charger/DSC03410.JPG

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/26/06 05:08 PM

Fantastic pics!

I am pretty ticked off with home depot now. I was supposed to have the paint in 2 weeks ago and still nothing. Last week they said they received it but couldn't find the stuff anywhere! Bunch of idiots I tell ya.

I am gonna talk to them today and if they dont have it, I will source it at another store. So the paintjob waits another week
Posted By: RalleyA12

Re: The thread on the honda board is still going.... - 04/26/06 05:31 PM

Quote:

Oh thanks. I was just curious as to if that would be a way to help keep more gloss to the paint. When I do it I wont be looking to achieve a show quality job, I would just want to get it as good as possible. My car is gonna be a daily driver anyway so I just want a respectble paintjob. Besides, the pics that have been posted have plenty enough gloss for me, I was just curious about whether or not I could do that to keep more glossiness to the paint, not trying to have a mirror smooth finish, just glossier.

roe




I'd give it a try, remember you can always wet sand it and then buff it. If it turns out acceptable to you, you will save alot of time.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/26/06 08:00 PM

ok , the paint came in and I finally have possession, all 2 GALLONS of it, lol.

I hope to get started this weekend, pics will be coming...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The thread on the honda board is still going.... - 04/26/06 09:30 PM

okay, i just painted seven coats, wetsanded from 1000-1500, and tried polishing, and either I dont know what Im doing, or its not working. The marks from the wetsanding arent going anywhere and the polish doenst seem to be doing much of anything. HEEEEELp, all that work..
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: The thread on the honda board is still going.... - 04/27/06 12:00 AM

Quote:

okay, i just painted seven coats, wetsanded from 1000-1500, and tried polishing, and either I dont know what Im doing, or its not working. The marks from the wetsanding arent going anywhere and the polish doenst seem to be doing much of anything. HEEEEELp, all that work..




What marks from wetsanding are you talking about? There shouldn't be anything much visible except the microscratches from the sandpaper, and that will polish out easily. If you see more than those, you need to sand the whole thing with a grit like 600-800 to get it smooth, then maybe a couple more coats before going to 1500.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The thread on the honda board is still going.... - 04/27/06 12:11 AM

Yeah...I had the same problem. Personally, I don't think the "polishing compound" and orbital buffer are strong enough to take out the scratches from the wetsanding...

Here's what worked for me

a.) wetsand up to the 1500 as described in this post
b.) apply "rubbing" compound and buff off with a high-speed buffer using wool pads w/water
c.) apply "polishing" compound and buff off with a high-speed buffer using foam-type pad w/water
d.) polish with high quality wax.

It's worked wonders for me...I can take pictures if needed. Chuck
Posted By: The Avg. Valiant

Re: The thread on the honda board is still going.... - 04/27/06 12:27 AM

Pictures are always a plus.
Jacob
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Home Depot Guy Said....... - 04/27/06 02:33 AM

guy here in St louis MO. told me today that rustoleum will not be making the professional tintable base's amymore...he said there not selling so there pulling them off the shelves! there are over 100 colors you can get from the two different base choices. I just picked up the last gallon of Masstone base and had torquois mixed up for my 67 dodge d100 shortbed. With this topic being all over the net i would think we could call Rustoleum and get them to change there minds on pulling this stuff from the shelves. Hell i would think sales would be picking up drastically since this thread is all over the world practically.
I ve been following this thread since day one and all i can say is why would you paint a driver any other way!

69Charger props to you my gearhead friend, You sure was thinking outside the box on this one!

oh and thanks to all of you who have been contributing to the cause here with all your trial and errors!
Posted By: Clair_Davis

Re: Home Depot Guy Said....... - 04/27/06 03:29 AM

I guess I need to go get a batch of my Plymouth White mixed up then. The Duplicolor spray stuff was close enough to not be noticible in the sun, and all I really need to do is my hood and bumper filler. My car hasn't been all one color for over 10 years now, I think she deserves it.

BTW, if someone hasn't sent this thread directly to Rustoleum, someone should. This is an OBVIOUS product application that they seem to have overlooked. They'll be selling the stuff forever if they'll just work with us cheap folks.

Clair
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Home Depot Guy Said....... - 04/27/06 11:45 AM

There was a link on the Honda-tech forum thread to a guide to wetsanding/buffing. I thought it migth be useful, so here it is: Wetsanding
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Home Depot Guy Said....... - 04/27/06 03:16 PM

Quote:

There was a link on the Honda-tech forum thread to a guide to wetsanding/buffing. I thought it migth be useful, so here it is: Wetsanding




AWesome posT! I'm gonna try that when i'm done, which wont be very long now.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Home Depot Guy Said....... - 04/27/06 11:56 PM

Quote:


BTW, if someone hasn't sent this thread directly to Rustoleum, someone should. This is an OBVIOUS product application that they seem to have overlooked. They'll be selling the stuff forever if they'll just work with us cheap folks.

Clair




yea this is a great idea!! how could this be done. Send the whole thing so when they check there email they just start reading and reading and reading....it would blow them away!!!!!!

lets do this !!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/28/06 09:56 AM

Hi guys, My name's Matt and i'm from Melbourne, osstraylia. Just thought it might be time for me to weigh in with a few comments.

first of all, a thousand squeeling tyres to 69charger, for showing me a way to make my 1970 Valiant VIP paintable for an amount I can actually afford. Cheers dude you rock!

Just a quick question (first of many, dont you worry) for 69charger and admactanium. Seeing as I'm out all the way here in the land of Oz, where they don't MAKE rustoleum, what do you guys think about using any other sort of rust coating enamel? eg http://dulux.com.au/html/planning/product_range_metalshield.aspx

I mean, you crazy canadians are using Tremclad, you even crazier americans are using either Rustoleum or XO rust stuff, what should I be looking out for in terms of chemical makeup, or should I just buy a couple of small cans and start practice prepping?

If this works, I am going to be SOO FREAKIN HAPPY and everyone that is currently telling me that it is a bad idea will look like and when my goes and I'm like and

Thanks a million for the hard work kids, keep it up.

Peace

timelord

Attached picture 2586225-IM000527.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/28/06 10:41 AM

actually....

this stuff sounds a little more like it!

http://www.whiteknightpaints.com.au/s08_latest_news/NewsItem.asp?article=89&cat=Press+Releases

I wonder if they have extra super shiny glossy gloss.......

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/28/06 10:57 AM

^^ Im in the same boat as you timelord, Im from New Zealand and I cant seem to find that tremclad at all! I found rustoleum at one place but its REALLY expensive having to be imported from america.

ANyways if you find anything like what you listed above working, tell me
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/28/06 11:27 AM

NO! WAIT! DUDE, WE CAN GET IT i THINK...

http://www.tremco.com.au/docs/TechSheets/Metal%20Armour.pdf

Surely this MUST be the stuff.....


69charger????

Posted By: Hotwheelsjr

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/28/06 03:13 PM

I don't know if this has been stickied before, but I feel it deserves one for a while.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/28/06 03:32 PM

HEy guys, how does bondo hold onto to this paint? I was bondo'ing a small area on my door when i accidently dropped a small piece as i was waking away and didnt realize it till today and trying to take it off is not even possible its like ROCK HARD and wont scrap off, i read somewhere on the net that when repairing RUST, they suggested to wire the rust down to metal then prime, paint rustoleum over it and then put bondo on top o.O Sounds wierd but it seems to not wanna lET GO off of my car so since my car is pretty much a ABUSE car i had small nickle dings here and there which i have applied bondo to and smoothed it out, and it doesnt wanna come off either, will post pics later.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/28/06 06:41 PM

Hey guys, well after seeing this thread and never painted really anythig before in my life I figure Id try this out, my project lincoln, I payed $150 for it, so another $20 on paint and a roller (had the other supplies) what the hell couldnt hurt anything, I still have to wetsnad after this coat, waiting til tomorrow, so what you think?



Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/28/06 08:31 PM

Looks nice and dark Hopefully after wetsanding the reflection will be sharper. What grit are you going with, and what process have you used so far?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/28/06 09:30 PM

Well, Im not really a painter so Im a noob at this, but I did follow directions, wetsand after 2 coats, I kind of messed up a little bit, I applied the coats to heavy and now Im going to have to wetsand my ass off, I mean it dont look bad for the first try, of course it wont be as nice as the charger..lol but I cant complain, as for the grit, I have only used 600 grit, 2 coats and westand, havent gone to 1000 or finer yet, Im going to, Ill post some pics of it tomorrow after I westand again, some spots seem more glossy then other, dont know what thats all about, any tips from what you guys seen? It just has roller marks, i bet im going to be wetsanding my ass off for a few days..lol
Posted By: darenrt

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/29/06 12:57 AM

hey guys great info I've been following this from the start and have also jumped in with both feet I LOVE IT !!
I'v gotten a hood scoop from summit and decided to paint it to match what I will paint the car. Here's what I've got. gloss white rustolium about 1/2 cup, small amount of penatrol(2-3 tablespoons to make it flow it also changes color so be carefull!!) and a 1/4 cup mineral spirits this will paint about 3 coats if I keep in a throwaway butter tub.
so far it looks good if I can keep from rubbing though the corners (white on black ) one problem that keeps happening is even after all the bubbles pop and the paint lays down and drys.
I come back the next day and there are little specks all over like poped bubbles or maybe pollen? anyway it sands out real easy with 800 grit in just minutes.
so far the paint drys out very hard if its not got a big drip in it. and really hard if I take it up to my shop attic while I'm gone to work for the day. It's got to be about 160* up there!!
keep the pictures comin I'll get one on as so as my wife shows me how
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/29/06 04:03 PM

i was also wondering about bondo and if you have to take it down the bare metal or if you can just bondo over little imperfections right over the rustoleum?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/29/06 04:54 PM

Quote:

i was also wondering about bondo and if you have to take it down the bare metal or if you can just bondo over little imperfections right over the rustoleum?




I put it over rustoleum on very small Penny dents, well dimples, and it seems to not wanna come off, so i'm gonna paint it, i heard that bondo actually holds water and can cause rust if not primed / painted
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/29/06 07:35 PM

I was linked over here from Thirdgen.org with hopes to paint my car on a strict budget. This looks awesome and despite what my friends are saying, I'm going to try this because clearly people are getting good results.

I have a 91 Camaro and it needs a lot of work. I'm going to be replacing the front and rear bumpers because of accidents. My big question is whether I should take off the quarter panels, bumpers, hood, ground effects, spoiler, etc. when I paint and do each part seperately. I figure this will help me to get a solid covering on each part but I don't know how others have faired. I saw the third gen camaro above with the ground effects off so I'm a little bit on edge about which path to take.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/29/06 09:39 PM

If it was me, Id just leave the parts on the car, just seems easier, but I mean if you want a perfect paintjob then take it off and get every little part, but you can always do one panel at a time with the parts on the car and make it look just as good. IMO of course.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/30/06 05:37 AM

Here guys i made a video of my current progess
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha-M2WchfgU
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/30/06 08:25 AM

Nice video! Apart from the few areas you had to bondo it's starting to look really good!

It reminded me of a tip I picked up somewhere on the net: If any of you are having problems with the paint not quite covering the last little bit at the edge of the rubber frames around the windows you can lift up the edge of the rubber and put a thin rope (3-4 mm?) underneath so you can paint under the rubber frame. When the paint is dry you pull out the rope and the rubber comes back and covers the edge of the paint.
Disclaimer: I haven't tried this personally, I just read it on a guys homepage. He always did it when he painted a car. Although he sprayed his cars, it should work when rolling it too.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/30/06 10:31 AM

ok dude we're in luck. the Metal Armour stuff from Tremco is apparently the real deal, so I'm going to head out and grab a litre and a bit of metal and give it a crack.

Awesome!!!!

Posted By: Anonymous

Keep the trim or take it off.... - 04/30/06 12:17 PM

I'm in the final prep process for trying this with my '63 Chevy pickup (using the 2/3 Rustoleum, 1/3 Penetrol path...we'll post pics as we go.) I figured if I was gonna put lipstick on this pig, I might as well do it right by taking off the trim. Since this is likely a weekend-only project, that means the truc's out of action for a month.

If you can let your project sit for that long, I think removing the trim is a better option. But folks who need to drive as they go don't have that luxury. Whichever you choose, just do as much prep work as possible and take your time. Far better to be a week late with a nice job than on time with a mess.

BTW, here's what I started with a year ago...wish me luck!

Attached picture 2590403-oldcar1.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/30/06 05:04 PM

Hi! Everyone!! I just joined this forum today. As I'm reading about the roller painting skill, All I can say is WOW!!! so now I want to do that on my car too, but I have a few questions to ask:

1)If using a roller, isn't there will be rolling marks between each rolling area? How did you guys take care of that?

2)I noticed there should be at least 6 coats, so do I have to thinning the paint each time?

Thanks guys
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/30/06 06:45 PM

Quote:

Hi! Everyone!! I just joined this forum today. As I'm reading about the roller painting skill, All I can say is WOW!!! so now I want to do that on my car too, but I have a few questions to ask:

1)If using a roller, isn't there will be rolling marks between each rolling area? How did you guys take care of that?

2)I noticed there should be at least 6 coats, so do I have to thinning the paint each time?

Thanks guys




As long as the paint is nice and thin, there will be no roller marks. I think it also has to do with the fineness of the roller.

For my little test areas, I did it two ways- one was to thin each time, the other was to get a little sealed container that I mixed paint/min spirits into, then each time I added just a splash of mineral spirits to get it to the right consistency. I should start on my car in a few days, and I'll be using a small sealed container so I dont have to open the paint can each time..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/30/06 11:14 PM

I have started to paint a few parts of my 1970 GMC Pick-up and thought I would make a progress report. So far I have only worked on 1 fender, cowl and the grill. They all have 4 coats so far. The cowl and grill I sprayed with a HPLV gun on the first coat as a test and the paint sprays quite well.( color is Regal Red) the following coats are rolled/brushed. It is really going on nicely with no roller marks and only a few runs here and there. My biggest headache so far is dust. I wipe with a tack cloth, wear clean coveralls etc. I think the problem is because I am painting panels that are lying flat on a table and the dust is falling off me as I lean over with the roller. I included a pic of the grill, 4 coats before the next wet sanding.

Bob

Attached picture 2591554-DSC_00158.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 04/30/06 11:22 PM

Here is the cowl.

Attached picture 2591582-cowl.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 12:58 AM

wow that is a beautiful red. i purchased a color called "safety red" because that was all they had and i was in a rush to paint my car before spring break ended. it ended being a darker orange/red color. is regal red a stock color or did you get it mixed(or is it called tinting?) is it rustoleum professional or the regular kind? Thanks
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 01:34 AM

Regal red is a stock color, regular rustoleum. I bought a pint to test, liked it, and bought 4 quarts at True Value Home center to paint my truck. My thought was to get a stock color in case I have to buy more in the future for repairs, etc.

Bob
Posted By: dalbers

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 03:12 AM

That's looking really good. Keep us posted. I'm in the process of getting my 69 chevy pickup ready for painting.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 04:08 AM

alright... this is going to be a loooong post, but here we go...

1st coat... dont bash on the "prep" work...





2nd coat





3rd coat only took one pic... dont know why...



4th coat







and finally... 5th coat







as of now, i plan on putting atleast 3 more coats on... we will see what happens, ill keep ya updated...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 04:42 AM

Very nice my Civic Brother, Yours seems to be going better than mine haha, well then again mine was a disaster to begin with .
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 04:59 AM

did u wet sand at all?
Posted By: Anonymous

Looks like the 3rd coat is where the magic begins... - 05/01/06 10:42 AM

That's after the first wetsanding when most of us rookies are ready to bail. then the third coat goes down and....presto!

Can't wait to get there!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 11:40 AM

Quote:

wow that is a beautiful red. i purchased a color called "safety red" because that was all they had and i was in a rush to paint my car before spring break ended. it ended being a darker orange/red color. is regal red a stock color or did you get it mixed(or is it called tinting?) is it rustoleum professional or the regular kind? Thanks




Can you post up a pic of the "safety red" please? That's the color I was looking at using, it would be nice to see it applied and dried before deciding. Thanks,
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 01:15 PM

Quote:

wow that is a beautiful red. i purchased a color called "safety red" because that was all they had and i was in a rush to paint my car before spring break ended. it ended being a darker orange/red color. is regal red a stock color or did you get it mixed(or is it called tinting?) is it rustoleum professional or the regular kind? Thanks




Do you have any pics of the safety red? I was wondering how it looked compared to regal red..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 03:04 PM

WOW! Nice work~~ Did you painted with a roller or spray? And What did you do for those harder-to-paint areas? Thanks
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 03:18 PM

found some safety red pics, and I must say it is eye catching.

http://www.pbase.com/volvospeed740/inbox

also:






http://www.plowsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3033&stc=1&d=1061323904

http://img320.imageshack.us/my.php?image=redneck00060if.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 04:34 PM

Has anyone used Hunter green. My car's close to the sample on the website but I'm curious how it will look for real.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 04:57 PM

that plow picture is a perfect example of what safety red looks like
i'll try to take pics of my car later though
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 06:31 PM

That looks a lot like hugger orange (chevy color). Not too shabby, might look good on a dart.. so it's between a very mild canvas white or this super loud safety red. For a weekend car maybe the red would be a good thing..







Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 06:51 PM

it's like that but just a little redder

that color would look great on those cars

but it doesn't look right on my 240
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 07:26 PM

thats like the fire red in tremclad. it sux. in the can it looks like a nice dark red but when painted its an orange red.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 08:06 PM

Quote:

Has anyone used Hunter green. My car's close to the sample on the website but I'm curious how it will look for real.




If my wife gets our door painted I'll get you some pictures.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 08:15 PM

I might be hesitant to use reds with this paint and procedure, at least not without testing it for UV fading etc. for awhile.

Reds are notorious for being the fastest fading color of all with the pigment makeup of the color. It just happens that way - unless you clearcoat it, or keep waxed to the max.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 09:02 PM

whats wrong with orange?

red and anything derived from red uses pigments that can't be fully synethitically made, and are therefore bad at resisting uv, but i have to say the orange does'nt fade at all, the 74 beetle was painted 6yrs ago and there is no fade at all, when compared to underhood and door jambs.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 09:06 PM

Quote:

I might be hesitant to use reds with this paint and procedure, at least not without testing it for UV fading etc. for awhile.

Reds are notorious for being the fastest fading color of all with the pigment makeup of the color. It just happens that way - unless you clearcoat it, or keep waxed to the max.




69Charger's VW isn't red, but it's orange, and it seems to have held up well in the color department for many years and I assume it's seen its share of sun. Could red be far off from that?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 09:21 PM

red and any color derived form red is allways more prone to be effected by uv, orange has alot of red in it, and in the tremclad brand at least there is no fade/uv damage at all. and yes, the 74 bug sees alot of sun.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/01/06 09:53 PM

Quote:

I was linked over here from Thirdgen.org with hopes to paint my car on a strict budget. This looks awesome and despite what my friends are saying, I'm going to try this because clearly people are getting good results.

I have a 91 Camaro and it needs a lot of work. I'm going to be replacing the front and rear bumpers because of accidents. My big question is whether I should take off the quarter panels, bumpers, hood, ground effects, spoiler, etc. when I paint and do each part seperately. I figure this will help me to get a solid covering on each part but I don't know how others have faired. I saw the third gen camaro above with the ground effects off so I'm a little bit on edge about which path to take.




I have an 89 Camaro and it was a pain getting off the ground effects. Hopefully your bolts aren't in as bad condition as mine were. To take off the rocker panels you will need to take the rearseat side panels off and use a deep socket that is either a 10mm or 7/16. To take the panels off the door you need to take off the door panel.. be careful witht he door clips, etc. Again you will need that deep socket+ extentions and I think a swivel adapter. I took my mirrors off too. I left the bumper and the lower panels on but I took out the break lights- which was easy. I also took out the marker lights and blinkers in the front but left the headlights in because I could get the 1" foam brush around the edges. Also you might want to take off the window sweeps, too and get new ones if you need them. I think I paid 50 or 70$ for new ones. Oh, and be sure to at least take off your front plastic intake grill thing. Be sure to check under your t-top weather strips for rust. If you have any then clean and repair it. You will probably detroy all your emblems, except the nose emblem, if you try to take them off. There is a silver film backing on them that tears off when you try to remove them. The film also has the rest of the image details printed on it. To take off the rockers you will need to remove the emblems to get at the two bolts beneath it.

This is my daily driver so I have to repeat the process everytime I work on it. Mostly just removing the window sweeps, licenseplates, lights and then taping up.

-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 12:03 AM

I didn't say ANYBODY'S car was Red, Orange, or Purple - had nothing to do with what anybody has painted, just a general statement of knowledge or warning, take if for what it is worth. I have had enough experience with red paints over the years to know about this situation.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 12:06 AM

Orange has nowhere near the pigment as a pure red, and I have never known it to be a problem. Talk to any painter about it. Reds are way more expensive as well, due to the pigment issues.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 12:35 AM

Quote:

did u wet sand at all?




yup, i wetsanded after 2 and 4...

alright, some updated pics of what i just did...

6th coat









Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 01:14 AM

Hello everyone. Just joined. I was referred from an Integra forum and I been poring over this thread for several days now. Finally today I started painting my ride. I am only doing the hood for now, but I already see trouble. Bubbles. I've followed all the steps to get rid of them, but even after that I still see some oddness. Sort of a "uneven" appearance to the paint. I can't describe it very well so I'll have to post some pics here in awhile. At any rate, thanks to Charger for starting this cheap paint craze. I really need paint but don't have the money right now. This is a terrific option! -Bill
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 01:26 AM

Looking really good guys...the white looks great compaired to my black, but I must say the job I did for never doing this isnt bad, i plan on wetsanding tomorrow (if it dont rain) and then Ill post some pics, I stll need about 2 more coats on it to make it final and get alot of the roller marks out...

Were getting all kinds of vehicle people in here
Posted By: matts69Dart

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 02:14 AM

Hey all, I have been following this thread from the beginning and am seriously considering it when it comes time to paint my Dart. I do have a question though concerning the procedure. What do you do when you are painting doors and hoods and come to the edge? How do you keep the paint from running into the inside of the seam? Is it better to paint the doors and hood, trunk off the car? I really want to understand the whole procedure. And by the way, everyone that has shown pics of your cars: they look great. Thanks, Matt
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 02:27 AM

Quote:

Hey all, I have been following this thread from the beginning and am seriously considering it when it comes time to paint my Dart. I do have a question though concerning the procedure. What do you do when you are painting doors and hoods and come to the edge? How do you keep the paint from running into the inside of the seam? Is it better to paint the doors and hood, trunk off the car? I really want to understand the whole procedure. And by the way, everyone that has shown pics of your cars: they look great. Thanks, Matt




From my experience, you don't really have to worry about paint running anywhere if you're putting it on thin enough. You are wetting the area with the roller with paint, and its so little paint it wont go anywhere you dont want it to.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 02:40 AM

Yea it really dont run like you think it does, it actually does pretty well with the running, like said, it really dont go anywhere you dont want it to go.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 02:41 AM

The paint doesnt really drip unless you put it on way to thick.. then it starts to sag.. if that happens just lightly roll over it a few times until the saggy portion of the paint line disapears. Same goes with drips. That is my method and probably similar to everyone elses. There really aren't any problems around the edges and creases. At the most you will either get a paint line caused by paint saturating the rounded ends of the roller or you will get a drip usually resulting from the same cause- the roller being saturated... afterall it is basically a sponge and rolling along a crease exserts more presure on the portion of the roller in contact with the surface of your subject. I used the 1" foamie to paint under my door handels. Surprisingly, the foamie holds a lot of paint. In my case the paint would squeeze out of the foamie as it was compressed to fit underneath the handel and between the spring mechanisms. This caused a lot of paint to come out of the foamie and drip down the door. It was an easy fix, though. I just rolled over the drips a few times while I painted the door or fanned it out using the foamie. The 1" foam brush creates some noticable streaks which seem to flatten out by themselves.

-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 02:53 AM

I've done my 7th coat. Doing the JeffS method. It seems like the paint goes on smoother and smoother each time I apply it. I have some drips here and there- but I am getting too tired of this project already. It isn't that it is exhausting- but rather the fact that I have to go out of my way to find a place to paint it. My fourth coat I actually did dismantle my car, tape it and the paint it at Home Depot. Then 5th, 6th, & 7th were done at my office parking lot on Saturday and Sunday- including the sanding. I can't help but laugh when I realize what I am doing... painting my car with a ROLLER with RUST-OLEUM! in a parking lot... but if I am able to pull off decent results I am sure the rest of you will have no problems. I have painted in pollen, rain, shade, direct sunlight, high winds, and even been invaded by a swarm of flying insects. All this on a daily driver. Painting after work and driving it the next morning. I have even been stopped by police in the parking lot because I was taking off my lights and licensplates and they thought I was parting out the car. Shyte. Good luck to you guys. I hope you don't have to go what I went through.

I just need to do my final sand and then buff.

-Serpent
Posted By: matts69Dart

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 03:00 AM

Thanks guys. I plan on painting the door jambs with the rustoleum rattle can professional paint. Also the underside of the hood and trunk. The more i read, the more excited I get about having paint on my car. Hopefully this summer. Matt
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 03:29 AM

69 I have been reading this string from the begining {a good 6 hour read} I have decided to to use your method to paint my 36 chevy coupe.I had had my coupe media blasted and PPG primed some time ago .The existing surface shows signs of minor pitting ,will roller painting fill these tiny voids or would I need to fill them with another product prior to roller painting.
thanx
Tonto4706

Attached picture 2595570-132_3279.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 11:48 AM

Quote:

I've done my 7th coat. Doing the JeffS method. It seems like the paint goes on smoother and smoother each time I apply it. I have some drips here and there- but I am getting too tired of this project already. It isn't that it is exhausting- but rather the fact that I have to go out of my way to find a place to paint it. My fourth coat I actually did dismantle my car, tape it and the paint it at Home Depot. Then 5th, 6th, & 7th were done at my office parking lot on Saturday and Sunday- including the sanding. I can't help but laugh when I realize what I am doing... painting my car with a ROLLER with RUST-OLEUM! in a parking lot... but if I am able to pull off decent results I am sure the rest of you will have no problems. I have painted in pollen, rain, shade, direct sunlight, high winds, and even been invaded by a swarm of flying insects. All this on a daily driver. Painting after work and driving it the next morning. I have even been stopped by police in the parking lot because I was taking off my lights and licensplates and they thought I was parting out the car. Shyte. Good luck to you guys. I hope you don't have to go what I went through.

I just need to do my final sand and then buff.

-Serpent




Serpent, Keep the faith brother! I've been rooting for you and bakyru (not sure if I spelled that right) to come through on this. You for all the crazy work you have to do for each coat and bakyru for that fugly red rock & seashell encrusted nightmare he started with. Both of your cars are looking awesome now and both of you can be proud of what you've done. Everyone on this thread is inspiring a lot gearheads out there to work on their own projects. There's more out there reading this than just those posting here.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 02:30 PM

Just joined this forum today, but have been following this thread since it was 17 pages long!

I found this thread from a Datsun Z forum that I am a member of. I am in the process of restoring a 1968 Datsun roadster (http://www.mydatsunroadster.com if you are interested) and plan to use this method to paint my project car if I can do it justice.

Thanks to 69 for sharing this method with the world.

Anyway, I started testing the method this week on a spare hood and wanted to share some impressions and get some feedback.

I am using regular Rustoleum Rust Paint of the consumer variety in Sunburst Yellow. I am diluting it with odorless mineral spirits. I have done the first two coats by mixing 5 parts paint to 1 part spirits, which should get me between 15 and 20% dilution. The paint is pretty watery but not too thin at that ratio and the bubbles on the surface pop all by themselves.

What I've done thusfar is to load up the roller in paint around the entire roller and then roll the roller into the paint pan to remove the excess paint again. Then I've been applying the paint by pushing fairly lightly on the hood but covering the same spot many times in order to get decent coverage. The stuff does seem to self-level pretty well, but there is definitely a bit of texture there from the roller. I assume the wetsanding will take care of this (I will do my first wetsanding tonight). The paint dries very quickly and is very hard when dry.

In general my philosophy has been to apply the paint to the entire surface as quickly as possible and then come back over it once again with the roller to do a bit of smoothing, and then allow it to self-level. All of my painting has been horizontal, but it is hard to imagine this stuff running because there is such a thin film going down. Maybe that is more of a problem on vertical surfaces.

I will post pictures of the hood when it is done at the end of the week, that way it will all be in one post so it will be easier to follow.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 03:20 PM

I have heard others talk about "loading up the roller" but, although I've only done small sections, I found that if I did that, I would lay it on too thick and get the texture you're talking about, and get runs.

The most recent time I tried it, I do load the roller up, then squeeze most of it out by rolling it hard through the tray a few times, then start on the painting, so long as the roller is completely colored with the paint. And I don't mind pushing down on the roller when painting the car either, it does leave bubbles but they go away quickly. The idea is to get the surface uniformly wet, even if really thin.

Your mixture sounds a bit thick to me, try thinning it more and that texture should go away since it will level even better. But then be extra weary about putting too much paint on, as it will run being thin if you put too much paint on there.

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/02/06 08:20 PM

Found a pic. of a Dart that looks similar to the safety red from the plow;

http://members.tripod.com/richmondcounty...f69dartgts1.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/03/06 12:59 AM

I have been to every home depot/lowes in the area and no one has the paint I need in the professional. I'm building an "A-team" van...so I need a "gunmetal" grey...which is close enough to the smoke grey...but I need a semi gloss black. Apparently I cant get the semigloss in professional. Do I need the prof...or can I be looking for the normal "stops rust"??? There is a semigloss in the regualr stuff.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/03/06 01:04 AM

I just answered my own question on a previous page!!
Back to the depot to get paint! Hopefully I'll get to roll out the front end of the van by the end of this weekend.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/03/06 02:58 AM

Be sure and post pictures of that van! Big flat sides should make for happy rolling..


question for 69charger- in what order did you paint your charger? I am very close to starting on my dart, like Saturday if I can get the tiny scratches out all over the car, but I'm not sure the best order to start painting. I'm thinking of doing the area behind the doors, and the roof, first. Then each door, each fender, the hood and decklid. Would you apply paint to the entire car in the same day?

Here's a pic of what I'll be applying that "safety red" paint to, unless I see a pic of it that steers me away. Nearly done, the most time consuming part left is grinding down those filled trim holes. Going around it with 320 and getting it really smooth will be the fun part compared to grinding...



|
|
V

Posted By: Forgiven

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/03/06 04:00 AM

Nice job to all that are having success. In reading the post, I didn't find where anyone had luck getting the Rustoleum high gloss tint base and mixing it for color match. I read where people said they were going to try it, so I'm hoping someone here did and had great results, just didn't post (yet!!! ). I have Lowes, Menards, and Home Depot up here, and was wondering if anyone had success getting a paint match at one of these? I'm trying to match light gold. Anyone who's had success let me know.

Also to any who've used this, this enamel differs from the others where it specifically calls for primer first. The others state can be used over bare metal. What have you found???

Thanks to all who reply!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/03/06 04:35 AM

Quote:

Nice job to all that are having success. In reading the post, I didn't find where anyone had luck getting the Rustoleum high gloss tint base and mixing it for color match. I read where people said they were going to try it, so I'm hoping someone here did and had great results, just didn't post (yet!!! ). I have Lowes, Menards, and Home Depot up here, and was wondering if anyone had success getting a paint match at one of these? I'm trying to match light gold. Anyone who's had success let me know.

Also to any who've used this, this enamel differs from the others where it specifically calls for primer first. The others state can be used over bare metal. What have you found???

Thanks to all who reply!!!




The Home Depot I went to told me they dont color match it to samples that you bring in because that option isnt available in the computer... however, there is a rust-oleum color chart usually by the tintable bases that shows a list of colors you can mix to. There are a lot of colors to choose from but not as good as a color match would be. Someone posted the color charts eariler. They come in a pamphlet type foldout.

-Serpent

P.S. Thanks Jax, I needed that
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/03/06 08:11 AM

wow! what a nice post of info you got here guy.

id like to ask, you mentioned in the threat to use lacquer thinner instead of the mineral spirit? correct me if im wrong anyong...also i think ill try the industrial one instead of the pro...since its closer to the tremclad...

ill post pictures up when i get started and straightened out! thanks in advance.

Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/03/06 04:50 PM

Quote:

Be sure and post pictures of that van! Big flat sides should make for happy rolling..


question for 69charger- in what order did you paint your charger? I am very close to starting on my dart, like Saturday if I can get the tiny scratches out all over the car, but I'm not sure the best order to start painting. I'm thinking of doing the area behind the doors, and the roof, first. Then each door, each fender, the hood and decklid. Would you apply paint to the entire car in the same day?

Here's a pic of what I'll be applying that "safety red" paint to, unless I see a pic of it that steers me away. Nearly done, the most time consuming part left is grinding down those filled trim holes. Going around it with 320 and getting it really smooth will be the fun part compared to grinding...



|
|
V






i painted the whole car at one time, start with the hood, open it when done, do the front fenders, then the rear area around the window, then the trunk lid and open it, then the roof and rear quarters all in one shot, then the doors last.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/03/06 09:06 PM

Hi All,
I've been watching this thread from afar for a while and thought I'd post my results. Just took this car to the show and the response was great. Thanks to everyone for the ideas and info.
http://www.higenki.com/roadster/paint/DSC06157.JPG
http://www.higenki.com/roadster/DSC05480.JPG
before--
http://www.higenki.com/roadster/DSC06145.JPG

(Edited pics to links...pics waaaaay too big!!)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/03/06 10:47 PM

very nice datsun!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/03/06 11:08 PM

for the last two pictures of the cars ( looks great by the way) what can did you guys use? more info the better...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/04/06 01:34 AM

That almond color looks great. Good JOB!

Here is a video I made today of my 7th coat- unsanded and not buffed. It includes a little scratch test.

I am using the "stops rust" or stop rust.. whatever it is... the tintable pastel base.

Big (60MB)

Small (12MB) Small(12MB)

-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/04/06 02:05 AM

Hey Ron! Good to see you. You did it.
That's great. Did you have any trouble areas on the roadster body?--there are a lot of curves and angles on the rear fenders.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/04/06 11:41 AM

Quote:

That almond color looks great. Good JOB!

Here is a video I made today of my 7th coat- unsanded and not buffed. It includes a little scratch test.

I am using the "stops rust" or stop rust.. whatever it is... the tintable pastel base.

Big (60MB)

Small (12MB) Small(12MB)

-Serpent




Looking real good Serpent! Congratulations! Without wetsanding you already have a real nice 10 to 20 foot car by the looks of your video. BTW, loved the Camero/Corvette correction edit on the video.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/04/06 04:18 PM

Hey guys, I was linked to this thread by another forum, and I have been wanting to paint my Civic. I have a few questions about the process.
Hey,
I just read your posts about how you painted your car. I have to say it looks really nice! But since I don't have the time to read and the millions of posts, could you give me step by step instructions on how to do it? So far I have:
Thin the Rustoleum paint with Mineral spirits, not paint thinner.
Then apply very thin coats of paint to one body panel at a time, and after two coats, wetsand it, then go over it with a tack cloth, then two more coats and repeat sanding. Then take turtle wax and buff it out. Is this correct? What grade sand paper do I need to use for prepping and between coats? Does the car have to be bare metal, or just sanded smooth? How did you paint in the door jams without getting is inside the car? How do you take the window trim off so you can get in there? Does it matter if the paint is gloss or not? Is there anny breakthroughs that are within that post that I don't know about? How long should I wait before I wetsand between coats? Is it ok to use the regular Rustoleum and thinned with mineral spirits? If you could help it would be much appreciated!
Posted By: The Avg. Valiant

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/04/06 05:45 PM

If you read back through, everyone does theirs alittle different. But 69Charger says exactly what he does, and exit, if i remember correctly, describes the prep process he took.
Jacob
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/04/06 06:55 PM

Thats the point in me asking, I don't have 10 hours to sit here and read through all the posts. (I don't mean this in a smart-alic way)

I think I have the process down, I was just wondering if there was any changes to the original way of doing it. I'm gonna start on the Bondo today, and by next week it should be getting painted.

Where is "69" when ya need him?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/04/06 07:10 PM

Quote:

Thats the point in me asking, I don't have 10 hours to sit here and read through all the posts. (I don't mean this in a smart-alic way)

I think I have the process down, I was just wondering if there was any changes to the original way of doing it. I'm gonna start on the Bondo today, and by next week it should be getting painted.

Where is "69" when ya need him?




The only real tweaks to the original were using different grits of paper. Im going to use 600 grit on the first 6 coats (after 2,4,6 coat), then 1 more coat and 2000 grit as JeffS did. At least that's the plan now.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/04/06 09:42 PM

hey,

1. sand car down using 80 grit and ending with 120 grit or higher so you dont have scratches

2. prep the car by taping etc. for trims either tape it up or wedge the trim use a fishing line or just take it off alltogether.

3. mix rustoleum/tremclad with mineral sprits so its like water..(u can use professional rustoleum and use the gloss unless u want a flat look?)

4. do the first coat and let it dry...dries for some ppl in 3-4 hours for some ppl the whole day...so leave it over night (when u do the first coat u'll be able to see through the paint and will be like wtfff its not covering it but keep doign it)

5. do a second coat and then let it dry and then wetsand with 600 grit

6. do two more coats with enuff drying time then wetsand with 800

7. 2 more coats and wetsand with 1500 if u want to do 2 more coats or u can just wetsand with 2000 grit

8. wax the ish out of it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/04/06 11:29 PM

Hi, i have been following this thread for a while...someone on MR2OC was talking about this 50 bucks paint job and he actually tried it...

so i first started with my friend's 280z..
and now i am working on my mr2..

here are some questions:
1.how come i keep getting bumpy surface after each coat? (the paint is so not smooth)
2.i already did about 6 coats to it, wet sand every 2 coats...so i tried going high grit wet sand and buff it with turtle polishing compound..it comes out with so little reflection and is not shiny at all...(i am painting black)..whys that?
3.has anyone tried to apply clear on it? and just wet sand and buff just like a sprayed paint job?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/04/06 11:55 PM

show some pictures mr2 guy.

i have to do mines in some sort of green..id like to see someone who has done green on their ride plse post. thx
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/05/06 02:36 AM

Hey guys this my civic after 3 coats:
[image]http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/43c19d07z9be0a45e/ac13re2/__sr_/1b0dre2.jpg?phw.rWEBaVJYIHdC[/image]



Im getting a lot of bubbles when the paint goes on. Going over the bubbles with the roller when it is dry pops them, but there's so many bubbles. Does this have to do with the mixing of the paint and the mineral spirit?

overall, im very happy with the results. It has a good shine.

steve http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/users/43c19d07z...hw.rWEBkizWFXVX
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/05/06 02:44 AM

Sorry I dont know how to post photos here. I hope it works.

web page
web page web page web page
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/05/06 04:42 AM

Quote:

Hi, i have been following this thread for a while...someone on MR2OC was talking about this 50 bucks paint job and he actually tried it...

so i first started with my friend's 280z..
and now i am working on my mr2..

here are some questions:
1.how come i keep getting bumpy surface after each coat? (the paint is so not smooth)
2.i already did about 6 coats to it, wet sand every 2 coats...so i tried going high grit wet sand and buff it with turtle polishing compound..it comes out with so little reflection and is not shiny at all...(i am painting black)..whys that?
3.has anyone tried to apply clear on it? and just wet sand and buff just like a sprayed paint job?




Sounds like you're either not using enough mineral spirits or you're putting too much of the mixture on each time. Each time I've tried with the correct mixture (very thin) and applying it very thin - just 'wetting' the surface, it has dried totally smooth, no orange peel. The wetsanding was to get rid of the imperfections mostly.

When you look at the surface really close, can you see lots of tiny scratches? That would explain the lack of shine. I have had some luck using either swirl mark remover or a stronger polishing compound, it will get rid of those tiny scratches and should shine better.

Here is a pic of those microscratches in sunlight. These are from 1500 grit wetsanding. Next time I'll finish with 2000 after the last coat, then go with polishing compound. This surface did not shine well unless at an angle. I painted over this particular area, but on another similar area I did get a better shine by applying some fast cut compound by hand (by machine would have worked much better, but even by hand I could see a difference).

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/05/06 04:45 AM

Quote:

Sorry I dont know how to post photos here. I hope it works.

web page
web page web page web page




Pics aren't working, isn't there an option to create a link to put in an auction or something? It doesn't let people view it in the way you've provided, that requires us to be logged in as you, I think.

If you dont have a good photo hosting service, try Flickr. It's free, integrates into windows, and has no bandwidth limit for picture viewing and you can hot link.

http://www.flickr.com/
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/05/06 07:34 AM

ok i found my problem....it's obviously i wasn't using the right miniral spirit....i checked my can and i've got the oderless....

i went to local home depot, lowes...they both don't carry 100% miniral spirit, i asked the workers there, they said they stoped carrying them long time ago, dunno why....

i am going to check kelly moore tomorrow...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/05/06 10:16 AM

guys i could use some help!

first coat applied to alitte to thick. so i let it dry for like 4-5 days. then i knocked it down with 400 wiped it down with mineral spirits let it dry then blew it off with airhose then applied 2nd coat much thinner then first. this was at 8:00 last night. Got up at 3:30 am and went to put another coat on and it started lifting up in small spots . I guess you would call it checking . to me it looks like the paint is cracking then it just lifts and gets all flaky. Its just small spots the size of a quarter and just a couple spots . I guess they can be knocked out with 600 when it drys good but wont these spots need to be sanded down more then the rest of the panel. This is just a practice piece so im learning as i go here. Im using profesional tint base stuff turquos. orderless mineral spirits also. im not having any trouble with bubbles or soft paint. my first heavy coat went on thick but once it died it was hard as hell. could it have been the air hose blew something on the panel before i rolled the second coat?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/05/06 11:57 AM

Hi,

I have an question to ask u guys, if that possible to apply tremclad clearcoat to my original paint? is it safe to my original paint?. will this work?..will this give me a high gross shine?.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/05/06 01:15 PM

Quote:

guys i could use some help!

first coat applied to alitte to thick. so i let it dry for like 4-5 days. then i knocked it down with 400 wiped it down with mineral spirits let it dry then blew it off with airhose then applied 2nd coat much thinner then first. this was at 8:00 last night. Got up at 3:30 am and went to put another coat on and it started lifting up in small spots . I guess you would call it checking . to me it looks like the paint is cracking then it just lifts and gets all flaky. Its just small spots the size of a quarter and just a couple spots . I guess they can be knocked out with 600 when it drys good but wont these spots need to be sanded down more then the rest of the panel. This is just a practice piece so im learning as i go here. Im using profesional tint base stuff turquos. orderless mineral spirits also. im not having any trouble with bubbles or soft paint. my first heavy coat went on thick but once it died it was hard as hell. could it have been the air hose blew something on the panel before i rolled the second coat?




That sounds like what I saw on my little test area. I chalked it up to the outside layer being dry, while underneath that, the paint was not dry and the solvents in the paint ended up coming through the dried layer above. This can be a result of either putting the paint on too thick, or putting thin layers on but not giving enough drying time between layers.

This is what I was describing..




If I had any of this, I would be tempted to sand the heck out of it before applying any more layers, to make sure that uncured paint is taken off. Not sure if this is what youre describing but sounds like it..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/05/06 02:43 PM

Quote:

could it have been the air hose blew something on the panel before i rolled the second coat?




Yes it could. Air compressors can actually spray small bits of oil without a filtering system, which could definitely lead to the typs of spots you are talking about. I just wiped down with spirits and then allowed it to air dry before painting. Mineral spirits evaporate pretty quickly.
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/05/06 03:30 PM

Quote:

guys i could use some help!
Got up at 3:30 am and went to put another coat on and it started lifting up in small spots . I guess you would call it checking .
could it have been the air hose blew something on the panel before i rolled the second coat?




First, is your compressor one that has oil in it? Second, do you have a water and or oil trap on it? If not then you probably coated your panel with a fine mist of oil.

When I am painting I always wipe down the panel with my thinner just before painting. I give the thinner time evaporate then spray.

I the case of the roller method, I would wipe down with the mineral spirits just before you apply the paint. Make sure you give it enough time to evaporate, before you start painting. Wiping down just before paint will take off any kind of oily junk that might be on the surface. That includes oil from your air line, or sweat from you

The other thing to remember is that if you don’t let the spirits evaporate long enough, they will still be evaporating whit the fresh paint on top. That will cause the paint to blister, or peel. I have done it before with much more expensive paint. I wiped down then sprayed right away. What ended up happening was the first time I got the car out in the sun, the solvent under the fresh paint started coming to the surface causing little blisters. We call that solvent pop. The only way to fix it was to strip down my new paint. NOT GOOD.

Keep trying you will get it. We are already seeing lots of you getting your technique down and seeing good results.

-Dave
Posted By: admactanium

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/05/06 05:07 PM

Quote:

2.i already did about 6 coats to it, wet sand every 2 coats...so i tried going high grit wet sand and buff it with turtle polishing compound..it comes out with so little reflection and is not shiny at all...(i am painting black)..whys that?



it all depends on your process. i'd say that polishing out the scratches by hand is NOT going to be easy at all. if you could find someone with a mechanical polisher your life would be much easier. wetsanding and buffing is an art unto itself.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/05/06 07:29 PM

ok regarding clear after doing all this...id recommend u dont...i tried it and it messed up the paint as if i put paint thinner directly on it and it got flaky...but this was after a few hours of dry time...i'll see wat happens after it dries over night..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? *DELETED* - 05/05/06 08:07 PM

Post deleted by Superchango
Posted By: GTSDave

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/05/06 08:13 PM

Superchangeo

Post this in the A-Body parts wanted section.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...;gonew=1#UNREAD

I have always had good responses to want ads there.

-Dave
Posted By: Anonymous

After second coat - 05/06/06 01:07 AM

Was on another site and can't find the link there anymore..

I really screwed up the first coat. Way to thick. I had orange peel bad!!!

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/kycabledog/1cbe1287.jpg

Wetsanded down with 400 to get back to a base that was the velvet look. Thinned it this time really thin...thought this will never work...but went ahead and gave it a coat...wow what a difference...smoothed out real nice...this evening gave it the second coat...

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/kycabledog/Fender014.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/kycabledog/Fender015.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/kycabledog/Fender016.jpg

There is still a little orange peel...but not as bad as before...and this is just after the second coat...haven't let it set to long....

I added a little bit of penetrol to the mix(less then 5 percent) and really like the way it helped cover the area....

On to wetsanding in the morning...then the next two coats.....

Kycabledog
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: After second coat - 05/06/06 03:39 AM

So what were your final proportions of paint and mineral spirits and penetrol? What ratio did you use?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: After second coat - 05/06/06 11:37 AM

Quote:

So what were your final proportions of paint and mineral spirits and penetrol? What ratio did you use?




I used 1 cup paint (styrphome cup...disposible), 1/2 cup mineral spirits and 1/10 cup of penetrol..
checked it this morning and it smooth as glass..can't wait to wetsand...but gotta have my coffee first.....lol
Posted By: texczech

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/06/06 02:50 PM

When using this method on old metal that has rusty pit marks on it, what can be used to try to fill these pitted areas? Maybe some type of primer or a finishing putty or some type? Maybe regular filler? Thanks.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/06/06 03:30 PM

Quote:

When using this method on old metal that has rusty pit marks on it, what can be used to try to fill these pitted areas? Maybe some type of primer or a finishing putty or some type? Maybe regular filler? Thanks.




Just use regular filler but before you add the hardener, add a bit of fiberglass resin to the mix to thin the bondo a bit. Mix it in. Then add hardener, mix and apply. Thinning it like that will reduce pinholes and make it easy to apply to such small areas with these tiny imperfections. Rough with 80 then go to 180 to smooth out..

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: After second coat - 05/06/06 03:37 PM

[quote
I used 1 cup paint (styrphome cup...disposible), 1/2 cup mineral spirits and 1/10 cup of penetrol..
checked it this morning and it smooth as glass..can't wait to wetsand...but gotta have my coffee first.....lol



Wow, that's around 30% spirits! I am using more like 15-20%.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: After second coat - 05/06/06 03:43 PM

Quote:

[quote
I used 1 cup paint (styrphome cup...disposible), 1/2 cup mineral spirits and 1/10 cup of penetrol..
checked it this morning and it smooth as glass..can't wait to wetsand...but gotta have my coffee first.....lol



Wow, that's around 30% spirits! I am using more like 15-20%.




Thats with the penetrol added..i wanted to make sure I had good adhesion as the can says....
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/06/06 10:26 PM

I picked up my paint today from Lowes.. 4 quarts of safety red, and one spray can of it. I sprayed a part of my test door just to get an idea of the color (assuming the spray color is close or the same as the quarts).

It's most definately an orangish red, or a reddish orange, should look nice with a black hood..
Here it is with no sanding or anything, 5 minutes after spraying..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/06/06 10:58 PM

Yeah, the spray cans are definitely nice for applying the paint--it self-levels well enough out of the spraycan to go on very smooth. I have heard rumors that the spray can variety is not as durable as the canned stuff. Not sure if that's the case or not.

I just finished my third coat on my test hood (wetsanded this morning). I decided to thin the mixture a bit more as an experiment. I tried 3 parts paint to 1 part spirits (25% spirits). The first two coats I had used 5 parts paint to 1 part spirits or around 17% spirits. Whereas before I had no bubbles, today there were lots of bubbles. Bubbles everywhere. I was able to pop them by puffing on them with moderate force (felt like I'd pass out after a while and this is just the hood ). After the bubbles popped there were small globs of paint remaining where the bubbles had been. We'll see how that dries.

I think my conclusion from this is that 25% is too much spirits. I will try for 20% on the next coat and see if that is any better.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/07/06 01:05 AM

Quote:

Yeah, the spray cans are definitely nice for applying the paint--it self-levels well enough out of the spraycan to go on very smooth. I have heard rumors that the spray can variety is not as durable as the canned stuff. Not sure if that's the case or not.

I just finished my third coat on my test hood (wetsanded this morning). I decided to thin the mixture a bit more as an experiment. I tried 3 parts paint to 1 part spirits (25% spirits). The first two coats I had used 5 parts paint to 1 part spirits or around 17% spirits. Whereas before I had no bubbles, today there were lots of bubbles. Bubbles everywhere. I was able to pop them by puffing on them with moderate force (felt like I'd pass out after a while and this is just the hood ). After the bubbles popped there were small globs of paint remaining where the bubbles had been. We'll see how that dries.

I think my conclusion from this is that 25% is too much spirits. I will try for 20% on the next coat and see if that is any better.




Conner, it sounds like you are being quite scientific with your treatment of this, that's cool. I don't know though if the bubble problem has to do with too much spirits, I personally think (and from my own experience know) that it's easy to put the mixture on too thick. A mixture that's applied too thick will not self level as well as a thin layer, and I think the bubbles are so thin with a thinly applied mix, that they pop and level on their own. With a lot of mixture on there, the bubble of air has more paint surrounding it, so it does not pop as easy, and when it does pop, there's a big glob of paint there.

At least this was my experience. I even pushed down fairly hard on the roller, which made tons of bubbles, but I had so little of the mixture on the roller when I did this, that they popped almost instantly on their own, no blowing required, and the surface laid perfectly smooth when I was done. I look at it as just "wetting" the surface so you can see there is some mixture on there uniformly, that's good enough. I also wouldn't hesitate to run the roller over an area many times, just using the paint that's on part of the area, in order to spread it out. that keeps the amount of paint on the surface nice and thin.

I dont think it's as easy to measure the amount applied as it is the ratio of mineral spirits to paint, but I know applying too much paint at once with this technique is not a good idea and I have a feeling it is involved with the bubble problem people are having (though I think that has to do with mixture % also)...

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/07/06 02:42 AM

Tried posting pics before but it didnt seem to work. Hope it does now. Here's my progress

This is the 4th coat:



A few before pics:



Overall, very happy with the results. Bubbles and orange peel still a problem and wetsanding removes the shine. But way better than how it looked before.

steve
Hope the pics work, if not, sorry again
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/07/06 03:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Yeah, the spray cans are definitely nice for applying the paint--it self-levels well enough out of the spraycan to go on very smooth. I have heard rumors that the spray can variety is not as durable as the canned stuff. Not sure if that's the case or not.

I just finished my third coat on my test hood (wetsanded this morning). I decided to thin the mixture a bit more as an experiment. I tried 3 parts paint to 1 part spirits (25% spirits). The first two coats I had used 5 parts paint to 1 part spirits or around 17% spirits. Whereas before I had no bubbles, today there were lots of bubbles. Bubbles everywhere. I was able to pop them by puffing on them with moderate force (felt like I'd pass out after a while and this is just the hood ). After the bubbles popped there were small globs of paint remaining where the bubbles had been. We'll see how that dries.

I think my conclusion from this is that 25% is too much spirits. I will try for 20% on the next coat and see if that is any better.




Conner, it sounds like you are being quite scientific with your treatment of this, that's cool. I don't know though if the bubble problem has to do with too much spirits, I personally think (and from my own experience know) that it's easy to put the mixture on too thick. A mixture that's applied too thick will not self level as well as a thin layer, and I think the bubbles are so thin with a thinly applied mix, that they pop and level on their own. With a lot of mixture on there, the bubble of air has more paint surrounding it, so it does not pop as easy, and when it does pop, there's a big glob of paint there.

At least this was my experience. I even pushed down fairly hard on the roller, which made tons of bubbles, but I had so little of the mixture on the roller when I did this, that they popped almost instantly on their own, no blowing required, and the surface laid perfectly smooth when I was done. I look at it as just "wetting" the surface so you can see there is some mixture on there uniformly, that's good enough. I also wouldn't hesitate to run the roller over an area many times, just using the paint that's on part of the area, in order to spread it out. that keeps the amount of paint on the surface nice and thin.

I dont think it's as easy to measure the amount applied as it is the ratio of mineral spirits to paint, but I know applying too much paint at once with this technique is not a good idea and I have a feeling it is involved with the bubble problem people are having (though I think that has to do with mixture % also)...






conner..every thing Exit1965 has said is true. I have applied 7 coats playing around with different mix's not ratios but just going by consistency of paint. this is the best way to learn how to get it right! that measuring crap just doesnt work the same every time. You want this stuff pretty thin. the thinner it is the flatter the paint lays and no bubbles whats so ever and no roller lines. trust me the thick stuff makes the bubbles that pop and makes little crater spots and also leaves roller lines. If you get it thin enough you cant even tell that you rolled it on after it has dried.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/07/06 04:06 AM

I always do the mix in those juice type containers, And this is what works for me to get the right consistency: I put the paint first, and then I start to add the thinner, a little at a time, and shake very well the bottle after each time. I always know when the mix is right because all the bubbles in the mix disappear in less than 30 to 40 seconds after shaking. If it takes longer, add a little more mineral spirits. Every time that I use the paint again, I shake the bottle and check for the bubbles and if it is necessary I add more thinner.
I hope this helps.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/07/06 04:11 AM

Yeah, I am just experimenting as well at this point. The first try of 17% spirits went on without bubbles, but may have been a bit thick. If I can go thinner without creating a lot of bubbles, I will so it can self-level better. But today I know I used too much in spirits. I will try something in the middle tomorrow. I'll post here with those results.
I realize there is no hard-and-fast rule because temps and humidity will vary from one region to the next and one day to the next, but I am trying to get a rule of thumb to get in the ballpark.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: After second coat - 05/07/06 07:14 AM

Quote:

I used 1 cup paint (styrphome cup...disposible)


Not that it didn't turn out well, but watch out when using styrofoam - I've had paints turn styrene into a soggy mess before. Just figured I mention it before it ruins someones effort?

PS- Just bought a gallon of white Tremclad...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: After second coat - 05/07/06 12:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I used 1 cup paint (styrphome cup...disposible)


Not that it didn't turn out well, but watch out when using styrofoam - I've had paints turn styrene into a soggy mess before. Just figured I mention it before it ruins someones effort?

PS- Just bought a gallon of white Tremclad...




I through away the cup after mixing, then use another one if I have to mix more. That way don't have to worry about eating the cup up. Mineral spirits would eat a hole in it...thats for sure...
will have some more pics up this evening after the final wetsand and buffering...
Posted By: Anonymous

Finished!! - 05/07/06 08:51 PM

WOW!!!!!

Put last coat on last night and started final sand this afternoon, then on to polish and finally wax....what do you think?

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/kycabledog/Fender023.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/kycabledog/Fender022.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g18/kycabledog/Fender021.jpg

This was only a test fender got from autobody shop to experiment with...turned out really nice...got to be careful with the wetsanding...rubbed off some of the paint back to bare metal near the edges...but that will come with practice...now on to my real project in a few weeks...can't wait.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finished!! - 05/07/06 09:02 PM

Forgot to mention...this was not rust-oleum paint. I went to the local Do-It-Best hardware store and purchased some Alkyd Industrial Enamel and had it tinted to the color I wanted...

Came out turquoise..just the color I wanted!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Who has experience using "odorless" mineral spirits? - 05/08/06 01:30 AM

I've been using this and am finding that even thinned all to heck, and with *very* light rolling I still get bubbles. They go away quickly, but most people don't seem to be getting this. Is the odorless stuff the culprit? It was the only thing available to me at the time of purchase. -Bill
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Who has experience using "odorless" mineral spirits? - 05/08/06 03:00 AM

Ok... sanding my car.. I had trhe 7th coat on there and it looked pretty good.. except a couple noricable roller marks...bahh. Anywway..the final wetsanding with 2000grt has taken me longer than I expected I spent satuday and sunday (todayu)( sanding (wet) and I didnt get to polish. When I wet the surface of the metal it look VERY shinny...I can see clear reflectoins after a good sanding with 2000grt and knocking down all of the orange peel. I have about 95% of the orange peel eliminitate ... except the hood. I actually had to sand TWICE because I saw that I had some orange peel left from the last sanding (thatI did on satuday). but man. my paint job looks SWEET!! whne I wet it with water. I am expecting it to look reallkt nice when it is done.

Well that is all for now. I celebrtated a little too har=d with the booze... if you know what Imean. Cheers.Serp. ^_^
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Who has experience using "odorless" mineral spirits? - 05/08/06 03:04 AM

Quote:

I've been using this and am finding that even thinned all to heck, and with *very* light rolling I still get bubbles. They go away quickly, but most people don't seem to be getting this. Is the odorless stuff the culprit? It was the only thing available to me at the time of purchase. -Bill



I use oderless and I get about one trillion bubbles but they all pop by themselves or if I want to expedite the process I will blow on them mself
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Who has experience using "odorless" mineral spirits? - 05/08/06 03:04 AM

I used them, and I too had bubbles...but they popped and by the time it dried...they were gone. I think the bubbles are from the roller. I also added a little bit of penetrol to the mix and that helped also.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Who has experience using "odorless" mineral spirits? - 05/08/06 03:26 AM

snguy -

SHAVed MOldING!?? o.O! Nice tho, my car is done, well i was done weeks ago with all the coats but im not gonna post anypics till i do the final polish, wax and everything cleaned up, so you guys gonna have to just wait!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Who has experience using "odorless" mineral spirits - 05/08/06 03:43 AM

Yeah, I was wondering about the roller. Here is what I'm using.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/08/06 06:06 AM

Hey exit about the spray can. do you think the paint is as durable as the one in the can? Reason I ask is because I have to sand some spots back down to do body work. I don't want to have to roll those small areas, I'd rather spray, then go over a coupe timies with the roller.
Posted By: Anonymous

Odorless - 05/08/06 10:30 AM

Looks like the same that I used..


My test paint job I used the odorless also...but when I do the actual project (a 1976 Bug and a Ford F-150...I also have a 99 Dodge Charger(so I am part mopar), I will use the regular mineral spirits...

I did have bubbles but they self popped and the paint leveled in about an hour.

I read this whole forum and they said that the odorless doesn't harden as quick and would take longer to cure. By the way did you see my test fender...came out really well..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finished!! - 05/08/06 12:44 PM

cabledog... that came out really nice!!
I'm getting very close to starting on my dune buggy. My first test a couple of months ago didn't live up to my expectations. I had similar results as Exit's original fingernail test. I know I didn't prep the metal well and slathered it on too thick...
You guys have been diligently working out the process and the results are looking good. Congrats.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/08/06 01:10 PM

Quote:

Hey exit about the spray can. do you think the paint is as durable as the one in the can? Reason I ask is because I have to sand some spots back down to do body work. I don't want to have to roll those small areas, I'd rather spray, then go over a coupe timies with the roller.




I'm not sure yet. Since I wanted to get full coverage on that area I spray painted, I put it on way too thick and it is scratchable but I'm sure it's due to the same thing that makes the other paint scratchable which is that the paint underneath the top cannot cure since the top has dried.

if I had put it on thin like the instructions say, and give it time between coats, I think it would be fine. Other people on this thread talked about stuff they spray painted with rustoleum and how those things are holding up fine to abuse.

I think 69charger has done some re-rollering on small areas, you might try that. If you put it on thin enough you can probably wetsand around it to feather it in, and it would come out nice..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/08/06 04:58 PM

Greetings all!

I like many others, it would seem, have been directed here from other forums and I am going to paint my old beater in this manner. I was planning on spraying it but I think I will give the roller a try.

BTW the proper technique for laying down a good spray job using spray cans is detailed here in this modeling tutorial: http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1302141D

I understand that it is for a model car but the procedure is similar. You can pick out DYI sprayed paint jobs on real cars by the variation in shine where you see both flat and gloss areas. This tutorial show’s how to avoid that and the reason that I like the idea of a rolled on finish is that it would make for a more uniform finish.

Oh and a couple more thoughts I had.

First don’t confuse the product marked “Paint Thinner” with “Mineral Spirits”. I believe paint thinner contains mineral spirits but is not as pure as the item marked “Mineral Spirits” and usually contains other products. I have used “Paint Thinner” in the past to thin enamel paint only to find that it curdled the paint.

I once purchased a MGB project from a collector. On his restorations, he told me, all he used on the underside of his vehicles was Tremclad/Rustoleum and never had problems with rust reappearing. I now use this on the underside on my cars and have had great success. It doesn’t suffer as badly from rust creep like POR-15 does. I have also used Zero Rust – it’s a much better product - but found it to takes a long time to cure to a satisfactory hardness.

What excites me about this technique is that you can take an ordinary car and for only a few bucks is make it a personal statement. I look forward to seeing more flames, racing stripes, and other wacked out paint jobs. For my ride I am thinking of a tribute to the mid nineties Mclaren Formula one cars painted in the Marlborough colors. Only problem is I doubt I can find the proper fluorescent red.

Doesn’t Tremcald or Rustoelum make a Chrome coloured paint, wouldn’t that look cool?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finished!! - 05/08/06 11:19 PM

Quote:

Forgot to mention...this was not rust-oleum paint. I went to the local Do-It-Best hardware store and purchased some Alkyd Industrial Enamel and had it tinted to the color I wanted...

Came out turquoise..just the color I wanted!!




from what ive read... the tint ones turn yellow if its doesnt get sunshine...
Posted By: Anonymous

Color - 05/08/06 11:40 PM

Does anyone have any pictures of the royal blue or smoke grey? I'm trying to decide on one of three colors for my 94 Integra...

Either a deep, dark blue...
Gloss black...
Or Gunmetal.

I prefer to do gunmetal but I don't know if rustoleum can quite "do" that. Any ideas on what this looks like/if anyone's tried it? Smoke grey might have a shot...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Finished!! - 05/09/06 12:35 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Forgot to mention...this was not rust-oleum paint. I went to the local Do-It-Best hardware store and purchased some Alkyd Industrial Enamel and had it tinted to the color I wanted...

Came out turquoise..just the color I wanted!!




from what ive read... the tint ones turn yellow if its doesnt get sunshine...




Well I have mine in a carport with no sun...gonna let it set awhile and we'll see. Can't start the other projects just yet...next month for sure...so by then I should know if it turns...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color - 05/09/06 12:49 AM

Hmm... same year I have. Post pics when you can. Here's mine with a Rusto black hood.


Here it is with the first red coat as of last night:


I just put down a second coat, but don't have pics of that yet.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color - 05/09/06 01:57 AM

Hey guys, I just put on my first coat of Rusto paint. It came out very nicely but I am getting some mixed results here..

I mixed it to where it was almost as thin as water. I could spalsh it on the side of the bucket I was mixing in, and it would run off and leave a little film. So I started rolling on, lots of bubbles, but they popped before I could even blow on them. So I was like woohoo, I'm doing good. After rolling smoothly over the paint it started covering the hood solidly and wasn't letting any paint bleed through. I was like wtf? I was putting it on super thin, and it still did it. So I was like oh well, screw the rules and I did the whole hood. It came out nice and that was about 2 hours ago and it's pretty tacky still, but it isn't wet. Input on this problem? Is it even a problem? There is nothing else wrong, it stuck perfect and just had the normal orange peel.

Also, I had to use Rustoleum Pro, since that is all our Lowes had. It said on the back to thin with Acetone, but I used mineral spirits anyways. It worked fine, but does anyone have any input? I'll have to see what it looks like in the morning.

Should I just do three coats with wetsand in between since it went on so dark for some reason?

Is it ok to re-use the paint after I mixed it?

Thanks a lot!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color - 05/09/06 02:17 AM

Quote:

Hey guys, I just put on my first coat of Rusto paint. It came out very nicely but I am getting some mixed results here..

I mixed it to where it was almost as thin as water. I could spalsh it on the side of the bucket I was mixing in, and it would run off and leave a little film. So I started rolling on, lots of bubbles, but they popped before I could even blow on them. So I was like woohoo, I'm doing good. After rolling smoothly over the paint it started covering the hood solidly and wasn't letting any paint bleed through. I was like wtf? I was putting it on super thin, and it still did it. So I was like oh well, screw the rules and I did the whole hood. It came out nice and that was about 2 hours ago and it's pretty tacky still, but it isn't wet. Input on this problem? Is it even a problem? There is nothing else wrong, it stuck perfect and just had the normal orange peel.

Also, I had to use Rustoleum Pro, since that is all our Lowes had. It said on the back to thin with Acetone, but I used mineral spirits anyways. It worked fine, but does anyone have any input? I'll have to see what it looks like in the morning.

Should I just do three coats with wetsand in between since it went on so dark for some reason?

Is it ok to re-use the paint after I mixed it?

Thanks a lot!




That sounds fine, see how it looks tomorrow and put another thin coat on, or go straight to 600 grit wetsanding and then another coat. Your choice.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color - 05/09/06 02:22 AM

Quote:

Hmm... same year I have. Post pics when you can. Here's mine with a Rusto black hood.

Here it is with the first red coat as of last night:


I just put down a second coat, but don't have pics of that yet.




Well, here's a few pictures of it right now:

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTIzODU5NjZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTIzODU5NTZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx.jpg

She's blue, with a stock green front bumper (with some missing paint) and the passenger door I recently spray painted because it was milano red... had been replaced.

The paint as a whole is in awful shape, orange peel everywhere, runs, etc... so I want to redo all of it.

What do you think would be a good color, IntegraGuy? Knowing the scope of Rusto colors, and that I probably won't tint anything... so going with stock Rusto colors such as Royal Blue, Gloss Black, Smoke Grey, etc... what would you think?


-Sam

Btw I'm "Sottilde" on T-I if you're on that too.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color - 05/09/06 02:57 AM

I can't see the pics, unfortunately. WeToddDid must not allow linking here. Anyway, I wondered what the Dark Purple or Sail Blue would look like. A local shop owner (Hai) has a ride that is a similiar color.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color - 05/09/06 03:04 AM

Here is the second coat from tonight. It's looking much better than the black did. This stuff really lays down well. I had some waves in it when I finished, but 20 minutes later it was completely flat and shiny as can be. I think I'm getting the mixture figured out now.

Posted By: 440trk

Re: Odorless - 05/09/06 03:38 AM

Quote:

I also have a 99 Dodge Charger




me thinks that's either a typo, or you have a scaled model of the 99 concept car.

No disrespect intended...just poking a little fun.

I now return you to your previously scheduled paint post.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/09/06 04:22 AM

Ok im back on the back on the banwagon with working on the duster. i need to ask how do you guys clean your roller and the tray out for reuse? thanx
Posted By: Anonymous

Cleaning - 05/09/06 10:50 AM

I don't clean em...After the 1st coat I usally put the roller into a platic bag, squeeze out all the air and I can use it the second time. Then through it out and use another for the next two coats...and so on.

The tray I use mineral spirits and an old rag...just pour some mineral spirits in, use my foam brush and douse everything, pour into an old container with a lid..and wipe it down with the rag...cleans up pretty easy.
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/09/06 11:12 AM

I wrap the roller in a plastic bag then stick it in the freezer. Just take it out and give it a few minutes to thaw. I do this if I plan getting back to it the next day.
I have always used this method with house paint rollers and brushes.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: Color - 05/09/06 12:46 PM

Quote:

Does anyone have any pictures of the royal blue or smoke grey? I'm trying to decide on one of three colors for my 94 Integra...

Either a deep, dark blue...
Gloss black...
Or Gunmetal.

I prefer to do gunmetal but I don't know if rustoleum can quite "do" that. Any ideas on what this looks like/if anyone's tried it? Smoke grey might have a shot...




I dont have any pics of the smoke grey, but I bought a 1/2 pint and immediately took it back after I looked at it. It may as well be primer, it is the exact same color. The color on the label is a dark grey but the color itself was primer color.. no thanks.

As for cleaning I agree with dousing with mineral spirits, rolling around in the paint tray bumps, then squeezing with something that isn't going to leave lint on it. Then put it in a plastic ziplock bag or something and reuse it.

You can reuse the mineral spirits used for cleaning, just dump the whole mixture into a container and in a few days the paint is at the bottom and the mineral spirits at the top, then just pour the spirits off..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color - 05/09/06 02:15 PM

Well then, Smoke Grey is probably out. Could anyone who's used a color other than orange/red/yellow (or just anyone in general using a rusto color) post a picture of it and the name of the color?

I know color selection's pretty limited with Rusto colors, so I'm trying to figure out what would be best for the integra. Impossible to do just at the paint shop, though, I need pictures of it on a car

Thanks ahead of time, guys. Picture time!
Posted By: The Avg. Valiant

Re: Color - 05/09/06 02:49 PM

Actually if you just get the tintable kind, its like a $1 more or something like that, then you have your choice of 100 colors. I had no clue the Depot carried a tintable version. My body work isnt so good, so I am painting mine with gloss white.
Jacob
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color - 05/09/06 04:09 PM

Well, I went ahead and purchased some Rustoleum and had it tinted turquoise. I thinned with mineral spirits and laid down two very thin coats 24 hours apart, but by the time I sanded out the orange peel, I was pretty much back down to primer (bare metal in spots). Last night I thinned the paint significantly just in case my first attempt wasn't thin enough and laid down a single thin coat. The pictures show the outcome. To me, it still looks too "orange-peely." What do you guys think? Is this what it should look like, or do I need to thin some more? Maybe a thicker coat of thinner paint? Any help is definitely appreciated. Thanks for your input!
- Ian
Posted By: The Avg. Valiant

Re: Color - 05/09/06 06:04 PM

What kind of mineral spirits are you using, the odor or oderless? I used the odor and mine had very little orange peel.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/09/06 06:23 PM

Quote:

Well, I went ahead and purchased some Rustoleum and had it tinted turquoise. I thinned with mineral spirits and laid down two very thin coats 24 hours apart, but by the time I sanded out the orange peel, I was pretty much back down to primer (bare metal in spots). Last night I thinned the paint significantly just in case my first attempt wasn't thin enough and laid down a single thin coat. The pictures show the outcome. To me, it still looks too "orange-peely." What do you guys think? Is this what it should look like, or do I need to thin some more? Maybe a thicker coat of thinner paint? Any help is definitely appreciated. Thanks for your input!
- Ian





Try thinning it some more. Is it like water, like maalox, like buttermilk, etc?

A thick coat of any thickness paint is not a good idea, so it needs to be a thin coat and you can vary your ratio of mineral spirits and paint.

Are you using the right kind of roller? The one in your picture, I cannot tell if it's the very dense fine foam type..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/09/06 07:14 PM

I'll try thinning some more. The consistency was pretty watery (ran quickly down the sides of the tray when splashed, etc.). I am using low odor (not regular odorous) mineral spirits, so maybe that's the problem. The roller (which actually appears in one of the pictures wrapped in plastic to keep it from drying out) is the correct fine white sponge roller from home depot. Thanks for the help.
- Ian
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: Who has experience using "odorless" mineral spirits - 05/09/06 07:53 PM

Here's how far ive gotten. I've decided to try and tackle the hood in gloss black professional. First coat i think was a littl thick, got some bubbles and it looked peely. Sanded it with dry 600grit to tear into it some. Did another coat much thinner (thinned with mineral spirits) and here's how ive gotten it. Next coat ill do thinner hoping for a little flatter paint. So its one coat that got scrubbed up good, with another on top of it..this looking normal for only say a coat and a half?


Thanks


Attached picture 2613619-100_0705.jpg
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: Who has experience using "odorless" mineral spirits - 05/09/06 07:54 PM

two, that big bush is a good 10feet away lol



I'm hoping to get it better looking than when i got it. I'm shooting for a gloss black hood witha s/s scoop. and a 'safety red' body




Attached picture 2613621-100_0706.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color - 05/09/06 10:01 PM

I got it. I'll head out there sometime soon and give it a good look. Thanks.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Who has experience using "odorless" mineral spirits - 05/09/06 10:18 PM

Update:

I just got done wet sanding my Rusto Proffesional Gloss Black hood. It was sorta easy to scrape with your nail at first, but after I wetsanded it with 600 grit, I can't scratch it off. It's turning out very nicely.

Note:
To all the ones having trouble with odorless mineral spirits, you must not be doing it right. I used odorless with Proffesional Rustoleum, and I had minimal lots of tiny bubbles which popped almost instantly before I could blow on them, and the paint is sticking nicely. I painted it about 7ish lat night and it's already sticking this good.

GoodysGotaCuda:
That looks about what my paint looked like after I rolled over it once. I don't know why it looks like it goes on so thick. I suppose it is because of the black paint. Either way it is looking nice!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/09/06 10:32 PM

I think the only difference between odorless and full stink mineral spirits is the drying time. They are the same consistency so they shouldn't have anything to do with bubbles popping or forming. I used odorless and had the paint laying nice and flat, bubbles popped instantly, just I did not wait long enough for it to dry before I added more coats. So I've switched to the stinky stuff now.
Posted By: DANIMAL41

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/09/06 11:55 PM

HI ALL!I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS THREAD FROM THE BEGINNING.THIS IS A PICTURE AFTER THE 6TH COAT OF RUSTOLEM GLOSS SAND.NOT THE PROFESSIONAL GRADE AND 100% MINERAL SPIRITS.SANDED LIKE CHARGER69 AND EXIT1965 SAID TO.AFTER 6TH COAT SANDED WITH 1500 AND BUFFED OUT WITH TURTLEWAX POLISH.WHAT DO YOU THINK?

<a href="http://xs.to"><img src="http://xs200.xs.to/xs200/06193/100_0490.jpg" title="Free image hosting powered by xs.to"></a>

Attached picture 2614155-100_0490.jpg
Posted By: DANIMAL41

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/09/06 11:57 PM

SORRY ,ABOUT THE BOWTIE WORK TRUCK!
Posted By: Forgiven

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/10/06 04:08 AM

I was wondering, since this is technically "paint job on a budget", if anyone used the tintable rustoleum and sprayed it on? Like some of us out there, I do have my project in a small garage, have a compressor, and understand I need an air dryer and dessicant to avoid problems which I wouldn't have with rolling. I know a lot of us have sprayed, but I'm wondering how this rustoleum turns out sprayed is all, and what, if anyone tried, was a successful process.
Also, did anyone actually try using acetone to thin this stuff yet (rolling or spraying)? That's what the can says to do, and it says right on the can you can roll it too (and thin with acetone). Maybe that would get rid of those bubbles quicker, and there would be a faster "outer coat" drying time than the spirits... Just thinking out loud.
I know this thread mainly has to deal with saving paint by rolling, not getting overspray on everything, etc, but the title of this thread said "paint on a budget", so has anyone tried, considered, or abandoned this idea, and for what reasons, other than the obvious (don't have a garage/compressor, etc).
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/10/06 04:09 AM

Looks nice, got a side shot of it?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/10/06 01:58 PM

Hi, I've been following this from the beginning, and I'm going to start soon(maybe this weekend). One question--if I'm going to put a coat of clear on, do I buff it out first to get the shine, then clear coat it? Also, how do I clear coat in general, does it need to be sanded?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/10/06 02:59 PM

Quote:

Hi, I've been following this from the beginning, and I'm going to start soon(maybe this weekend). One question--if I'm going to put a coat of clear on, do I buff it out first to get the shine, then clear coat it? Also, how do I clear coat in general, does it need to be sanded?




it depends on what clear you use, if you use the tremclad clear coat, i'd just prep the final coat with 800-1000, and not buff/polish, then follow with the clear about 4 coats and buff polish that like the paint, but it is not that necessary as you get really good gloss out of the paint alone.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/10/06 03:00 PM

there are some good results from alot of people, good job guys.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/10/06 03:08 PM

Quote:

I was wondering, since this is technically "paint job on a budget", if anyone used the tintable rustoleum and sprayed it on? Like some of us out there, I do have my project in a small garage, have a compressor, and understand I need an air dryer and dessicant to avoid problems which I wouldn't have with rolling. I know a lot of us have sprayed, but I'm wondering how this rustoleum turns out sprayed is all, and what, if anyone tried, was a successful process.
Also, did anyone actually try using acetone to thin this stuff yet (rolling or spraying)? That's what the can says to do, and it says right on the can you can roll it too (and thin with acetone). Maybe that would get rid of those bubbles quicker, and there would be a faster "outer coat" drying time than the spirits... Just thinking out loud.
I know this thread mainly has to deal with saving paint by rolling, not getting overspray on everything, etc, but the title of this thread said "paint on a budget", so has anyone tried, considered, or abandoned this idea, and for what reasons, other than the obvious (don't have a garage/compressor, etc).




i've sprayed the tremclad stuff, and i was amazed at how well the paint flowed and that it was so easy to spray. there was no clogging, spitting, and it sprayed on virtually any psi setting the same with a HVLP gun. the best thing about this paint is that it is not prone to fish-eyes, and reactions, ect....as with regular automotive paints, but having mastered the rollering tequnique, i'll never spray the stuff again, the main issue with spraying in you garage is dust/dirt/hair, it is allmost impossible to avoid, and with rollering you get no dirt if you enviroment is clean. that's a huge advantage to spraying. but if you have a booth, that is a different story, then i'd spray a traditional automotive paint, the "paint job on a budget" is just that, what any joe shmoe can pull off in his garage with limited $, and not be ashamed to drive it. The best part about this paint job is that your not paranoid about driving your car, for example, just last week i opened my door right into a engine i had out of a car and chipped my paint on the lower door skin, and i hit a deer!!! all in 1 week, sure it hurt a bit, thank god i did'nt spend thousands of $ on paint, i touched it all up and you can hardly tell where the damage was from the door opening, and i buffed out the scratches from the deer on my hood, fender, and lower valance. cost me nothing. for me it's the way to go, all my cars are driven alot and hard, it's not worth it to spend huge $ on paint just to have it all stone chipped in 1 month from driving on our lovely roads.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/10/06 04:32 PM

lets say i wanted to spray and is able to
how thin would it. same as rolling or thicker
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/10/06 06:02 PM

Quote:

lets say i wanted to spray and is able to
how thin would it. same as rolling or thicker




thin it to about 25% mineralspirits to spray, with a HVLP gun. presure set at 30-45psi. you could also use acetone, but i found it to flash too quick.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/10/06 08:02 PM

but wait when u thin it that much u spray one coat on like a mist...then u gotta wait for that to dry and then u gotta clean ur paint gun out otherwise it will clog and all that then the next day spray again then wetsand then clean gun out and then over and over again...to be honest cleaning out the gun is a paint in the [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean]. i would like to spray it too but i havent had any luck as of yet to the method...plus i get unpatient and then spray another coat before the first one dries and it looks all weird with orange peel and stuff.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/10/06 09:11 PM

Quote:

but wait when u thin it that much u spray one coat on like a mist...then u gotta wait for that to dry and then u gotta clean ur paint gun out otherwise it will clog and all that then the next day spray again then wetsand then clean gun out and then over and over again...to be honest cleaning out the gun is a paint in the [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean]. i would like to spray it too but i havent had any luck as of yet to the method...plus i get unpatient and then spray another coat before the first one dries and it looks all weird with orange peel and stuff.




clean up is very easy. basically the procedure for spraying is: mix about 25% minerial spirits, spray a THIN coat. let dry for 6-8 hours, re-coat, wetsand every 3 coats or so with 1000+, clean the gun with mineral spirits, place your left over paint in a seperate container and re-use it, keep the spirits from cleaning the gun and re-use that too, just spray the mineral spirits thru the gun, and clean the pickup and tip in a jar, let it sit in the jar. it's super easy, but if your going thru all the trouble of spraying, use an automotive paint, although the process is alot harder (ie: spray primer, sand, primer, primer sealer, then color, mix all the reducers/hardners according to humidity and temperature).
Posted By: DANIMAL41

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/10/06 11:06 PM

NO I DONT,I STRIPPED IT DOWN AGAIN.BUT,HERE ARE SOME PICTURES FROM 3RD TO 5TH COATS.I STRIPPED IT DOWN BECAUSE OF ADHESION PROBLEMS DUE TO PREP.WELL,BACK TO THE PAINTING BOARD AS I KNOW THIS CAN COME OUT REAL NICE!

Attached picture 2616481-66coronet038.jpg
Posted By: DANIMAL41

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/10/06 11:07 PM

ANOTHER

Attached picture 2616484-66coronet033.jpg
Posted By: DANIMAL41

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/10/06 11:14 PM

LAST ONE!

Attached picture 2616499-66coronet046.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 12:01 AM

Quote:

NO I DONT,I STRIPPED IT DOWN AGAIN.BUT,HERE ARE SOME PICTURES FROM 3RD TO 5TH COATS.I STRIPPED IT DOWN BECAUSE OF ADHESION PROBLEMS DUE TO PREP.WELL,BACK TO THE PAINTING BOARD AS I KNOW THIS CAN COME OUT REAL NICE!




Yo, caps lock is totally cruise control for cool.

Please extend your left pinky 5/32 of an inch to the left and hit that button.

Thank you.


And I like the paint.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 01:34 AM

hey 69charger!!

how long should i wait after final sanding with 2000 before i buff on it with the turtle wax polish? hours....days....weeks???

im using Rustoleum profesional tint base Tourqois. thanks Cliff
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 02:46 AM

Quote:

NO I DONT,I STRIPPED IT DOWN AGAIN.BUT,HERE ARE SOME PICTURES FROM 3RD TO 5TH COATS.I STRIPPED IT DOWN BECAUSE OF ADHESION PROBLEMS DUE TO PREP.WELL,BACK TO THE PAINTING BOARD AS I KNOW THIS CAN COME OUT REAL NICE!




How does yours look like up close? Is it as smooth as it looks? Mine is on the fourth coat and there is still a bit of orange peel look going on...im gettin a little worried Yours looks nice and smooth, is it? like any other car? or is there a textured look to it?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 04:42 AM



Finally got started on the dart paint tonight. The bodywork turned out good! Nothing horribly wrong with it, but there were some long dents here and there (like down the passenger 1/4 panel) and lots of small dings. The color is Rustoleum Pro "safety red". This first coat went on nice and smooth, I saw a run or two develop but just rolled over it a few times. Also saw a few specs of crap in the paint which I just pulled off the surface then rolled over.

It's thin and partially transparent at this point after only 1 coat.

It took me quite awhile, 1.5 hours. I had to re-thin the paint part of the way through. I think now that I have the hang of it I should be able to do future coats in less time.

Here's a couple of pics..






Many more pics here..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/xit1965/sets/72057594131616795/






Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 05:04 AM

Quote:



Finally got started on the dart paint tonight. The bodywork turned out good! Nothing horribly wrong with it, but there were some long dents here and there (like down the passenger 1/4 panel) and lots of small dings. The color is Rustoleum Pro "safety red". This first coat went on nice and smooth, I saw a run or two develop but just rolled over it a few times. Also saw a few specs of crap in the paint which I just pulled off the surface then rolled over.

It's thin and partially transparent at this point after only 1 coat.

It took me quite awhile, 1.5 hours. I had to re-thin the paint part of the way through. I think now that I have the hang of it I should be able to do future coats in less time.

Here's a couple of pics..





Looks awesome, thats the color i bought for my duster. Its hard to see but how is the actual paint laying out. Is it going down flat? is it a little peely? can you somewhat describe how it looks, from the pictures i've taken of mine it looks better than it really is in the pictures.

Thanks!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 05:12 AM

It's laid down flat as of the time I walked away from it. In my experience, it only gets flatter as it dries. It is on there very thin as you can see, and where there's bondo it has absorbed a lot of the paint there.

The only time I noticed any thing like orange peel was when the paint wasn't thin enough and/or I had put too much of it on. I would then "wring" out the paint on an unpainted surface nearby, then roll over the area with too much paint a few times. I was surprised at having to add more mineral spirits, but it was absolutely necessary. If not the paint doesn't lay out as well and seemed to get picked up easier by the roller where wetter/thinner paint stayed put.

The one "bad" thing that stands out now are the sanding scratches on the hood and decklid. They will still be visible after 6 more coats, but will be mostly hidden.. At least that's my experience with the Almond color. I'm not going to use this hood anyways
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 05:21 AM

Finally after several months you have started rolling your car. And by the way looks good
Congratulations!!!

You can mix the paint with mineral spirits, a whole can in advance and keep it in a juice bottle. That way you can have in you tray just what you need for each panel. Always keep the lid on.
About the scratches from sanding, I had some rough areas in my bug, but after the 2nd coat they are almost gone
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 05:39 AM

Here's a few pics of my Wagon as of tonight. 3 coats on the hood, and one coat on the roof. Let me know what you think..

Please pardon the sucky pics, it is a dark rainy night. Also, I am not done on the roof around the hatch, that will all be painted.







More to come, my batterys were dying.
I should be doing the sides tomorrow if the weather wants to cooperate with me.

Before wetsanding today I could not scratch the paint. I love this paint.

Rustoleum, bondo, and duck tape are your friends.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 06:56 AM

I'm stripping most of the paint off of my 66 Tempest (surface rust) and have two questions about prep. Planning on using phosporic acid to deal with the rust, but what's next? Do I need to neutralize it, or would wiping it down with mineral spirits be enough?

Also, I have six rattle cans of Tremclad gray primer and I really can't see a downside in using them as a base - can anybody think of a reason not to?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 09:28 AM

Exit1965 looking good... I will be eagerly awaiting your finished product. Good luck, I am sure you will have success. Cannot wait to see how that safety red looks after 6 coats too.
Posted By: BigTerry

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 02:23 PM

have anyone try it with some pearlmetallic yet?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 02:31 PM

I beleive this has been tried and documented atleast twice in this thread. From what I remember, the flakes will set in the bottom of the can if not constantly stired. Someone did manage to get it to apply, but after sanding it looked really bad. I believe it was also said that flakes need to be shot inorder to apply properly; someone correct me if I'm wrong.

BTW, looking good Exit!
Posted By: BigTerry

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 02:39 PM

sorry I jump around in this thread
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 03:07 PM

Not a problem, we're all here to help. There is alot of information and pages to go through, I just happen to have been through them all. I can't wait to start on my test peice hopefully this weekend. I bought Green tremclad from Walmart, just have to find something to test it on.

I have a question about wet sanding and pollishing. How do you wet sand and pollish edges, small areas, small (1-2 inch) convex trim, door jams, pillars, etc?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 03:18 PM

Hey Exit
I still wander about Penetrol. I know that you did try in a test area, and never dried completely. But the same happened with all your test areas, except the last one. I still think that could be a good idea. Do you think that the paint did not dry because the Penetrol? or was because the application.
Have anybody else had any experience with Penetrol?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color - 05/11/06 03:34 PM

I'm doing dark blue on my eclipse spyder. It looks great. I'll post pictures of the piece I have with the most coats on later. It's on coat number Three, wetsanded after coat 2.

It's a nice color. Pictures when I'm home from work.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 03:50 PM

Oh, dark blue, this I would really like to see. This is the color I would like to use on my daily driver if it looks good. How is it turing out so far? Please Please do post pics
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 03:57 PM

Quote:

Hey Exit
I still wander about Penetrol. I know that you did try in a test area, and never dried completely. But the same happened with all your test areas, except the last one. I still think that could be a good idea. Do you think that the paint did not dry because the Penetrol? or was because the application.
Have anybody else had any experience with Penetrol?




The test area I tried with penetrol, I laid it on really thick, and the paint mixture itself was really thick, so that's why it didn't dry.

The penetrol is more of a light oil consistency where the mineral spirits are like water. I think if you used penetrol and could thin it to the point where goes on smooth but does not run, it should work. But I've said it before, Im not sure of the real advantage of using penetrol. Adhesion and leveling is not an issue. When done correctly, the mineral spirits adhere and lay as flat as can be once dry. I tried to scratch an area of my dart this morning (on the trunk lid behind where the big trim panel will go) and it's rock hard after 10 hours overnight.

The possible benefit I can think of is that you can put more paint on, and because it levels out, you can get away with heavier coats. But then i'd be worried about that coat curing properly if it's that thick.

I have a barely used can of penetrol. I think I'll try it out on my engine bay and see if I can get it to look good and be tough after 2 or 3 coats..

The guy who originally used it on a VW (if I remember right) has not been heard from since, but he said he used only 3 coats.



As for sanding small areas, just dont spend much time sanding them especially edges because the paint will come off quick. for my door jambs, I probably wont spend much time wetsanding at all since that's not a critical area to look perfectly glossy and smooth.
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 04:48 PM

Quote:

Hey Exit
I still wander about Penetrol. I know that you did try in a test area, and never dried completely. But the same happened with all your test areas, except the last one. I still think that could be a good idea. Do you think that the paint did not dry because the Penetrol? or was because the application.
Have anybody else had any experience with Penetrol?




I used penetrol and I really didn't notice a difference, other than the mixture was thicker. It still laid down.
I think Penetrol would make a difference if you were spraying it. In fact, I plan to spray jambs, trunk, etc and use Penetrol to thin the Rustoleum.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 05:08 PM

Quote:



I have a question about wet sanding and pollishing. How do you wet sand and pollish edges, small areas, small (1-2 inch) convex trim, door jams, pillars, etc?





Any color of paint you can get in a can, you can get in a spray paint can. For my jams and such..im just gonna spray bomb it
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 06:33 PM

I've been gone for about 20 pages of this thread, but I wanted to come back and put some pictures up of my final work.

I found that the "PROFESSIONAL" Rustoleum worked out much better than the regular stuff. No chipping, flaking, etc. and it's holding up fine (about 3 weeks so far of use)

Here's some shots of the car before and after:

~230HP and 2100lbs





Rest of the pictures are here: http://www.controlledspin.com/~mike/PICTURES/240z/

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 07:30 PM

Amazing Job! I can't to get started on my CRX, nice to see everyone bringing some results to the table now. Looking forward to seeing Exits dart finished, I've been following some of the info hes been providing us since some of the earlier pages and want to see how he finishes up his dart.
Posted By: Big_Easy_68cuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 07:30 PM

Man that is amazing. I like the multitone paint job. On the note of metallic here is an idea. What about laying down 2 coats of color by roller. Followed by a coat of clear metallic followed by more color. If you layered it right it could even give a depth illusion due to varying intensity of reflection. Obviously you wouldn't sand the clear metallic coats.

Eric
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 08:02 PM

Looks awesome Jagd! What sanding method did you use on it, and what kind of polishing did it get?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 08:04 PM

Quote:


As for sanding small areas, just dont spend much time sanding them especially edges because the paint will come off quick. for my door jambs, I probably wont spend much time wetsanding at all since that's not a critical area to look perfectly glossy and smooth.





So it is possible to use an electric buffer to polish the pillars between the door and front windsheild, as well as round trim? I would just be afraid of it buring through on the high spots or not being able to get the polisher in there.

I do also realise that spray bomb can be used for door jambs and such, I will keep that in mind.

Any other ideas on how to wet sand/polish these hard to access areas that must be wet sanded and polished?

BTW, Jagdstealth, that car looking AMAZING, I can't believe thats been rolled!
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 09:18 PM

I will be on my 6th coat of paint tomorrow morning on my hood. After that 6th coat i wetsand it with 2000grit and then polish correct?

I have this polisher, its brand new. Will this work ok? low speed is 1400rpm it says. Pleasseee tell me i can use it

This polisher

Thanks
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 10:09 PM

JagdStealth
"Nice job" how long did you take for the whole paint job?
And what product did you use for the separation of the colors didnt wet sanding wear it off/down?
thanx
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 10:27 PM

Check this out guys! I am soooooooo...."happy..."

Attached picture 2618617-Vandalism01Small.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 10:45 PM

Man what are you happy about!?..Someone just ripped your gas filler lid and cap off and give you a good dent and your happy! It must take alot to get you going
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 10:47 PM

wooooohooooooo, finally exit is painting!!!!

and that "Z", very nice, finally see some results, it just makes this whole thread worth it for me, i love sharing the info, and then seeing the results.. awesome job guys.

funny how it took what.....37 pages of convincing for you guys to get the jewels to do it!!!!!!!!!!!

i bet in the begining, you guys were like, ya....ok.....paint with a roller.....gggreat.!!!

funny thing just happened, i was out in the garage, getting stuff ready to go to the cottage, and i have a torque wrench on the top shelf (250ft/pd, about 30" long in a case) and about 5 new oil filters on it that just fell about 4ft onto the hood of my charger, it hit soooooo hard i did'nt want to look, made me ........guess what???? not a mark.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 11:18 PM

everyone here use a compressor am i correct? omg, i just finish sandish a fender and its tiring!im trying to remove some old clear that has been peeling so its has to go!
is there an electrical sand machine... i can borrow from a like home depo? fee? possible?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/11/06 11:29 PM

Quote:

everyone here use a compressor am i correct? omg, i just finish sandish a fender and its tiring!im trying to remove some old clear that has been peeling so its has to go!
is there an electrical sand machine... i can borrow from a like home depo? fee? possible?




i've had good results using a $10 palm sander to prep the bulk of the car, then do the edges and countoured areas by hand.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 12:14 AM

Quote:

Man that is amazing. I like the multitone paint job. On the note of metallic here is an idea. What about laying down 2 coats of color by roller. Followed by a coat of clear metallic followed by more color. If you layered it right it could even give a depth illusion due to varying intensity of reflection. Obviously you wouldn't sand the clear metallic coats.

Eric




Interesting idea. I may consider that on my test door. However, I'm not really made of money and I love the looks so far so I might not. But somebody should.

Exit: Your pictures before are of the almond color, correct? I'm trying to get something as close to this as possible:


Any ideas from the rusto custom colors? I know almond's not quite it though...
This might show the color better:
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color - 05/12/06 01:17 AM

http://www.novaslp.net/pics/v/newcar2/paint/

The first pictures there (outside) are after 3 coats before I wet sanded for the second time. The last 2 pictures on paper are in my garage after the wet sand (got rid of orange peel and runs) and I had rolled on another coat. It flattens out really well when it dries. You just have to make sure the rustoleum is as thin as water. It's a pain because it tends to run. The spoiler is done with non professional and I don't notice any chipping or flaking. I'm using professional on the main car (97 eclipse spyder gst) and have 2 coats on so far.

I used the rattle can royal blue to do door jams, underside of hood, underside of trunk and the trunk jam (it's hard to get to with a roller, the color matches perfect.

Thanks so much. I was going to get a maaco job then ran across this thread at work. I had to buy everything I needed and I'm at like 75 for the pint of non pro, a gallon of pro, and all rollers and brushes.

I have been reusing my roller between coats with no problem. I rinse it in mineral spirits before I start though.

Make sure you thin the paint enough or you get bubbles you have to blow on. I have a compressor system in my garage that I was using to hit it after I'd roll. It worked just fine and yes there is an oil filter in it.

Go for blue it looks awesome almost a candy color. I thought it would be much darker. I was trying to go for nissan 350z daytona blue and man is this close.

I can't wait to finish and polish. When I'm all done charger your so getting cash in the mail
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 02:27 AM

well, yes I ma not exactly happy.. I can live with replacing the door and the gas cap.. already did the gas cap and got the door on order.. but a !@#! DENT?! come on... well, more of a crease.. that is hard to get to.. Only uneducated deviants with incompetent parents would find amusement in destroying other people's property. Who ever did it is a piece of garbage. That's it.. I am calling INS.. that should get everyone deported except me.

On a sunny note you can see how well the Stops-Rust paint held up.. it didnt chip or crack.. it just got dirty from the greasy mess on the gas lid. You can also see my soft velvet wet sanding.. looks so yummie I could eat it.

I doubt I will be putting my rims on anytime soon!

-Serpent
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 02:29 AM

Exit- congrats on the car! it is going to look HOT!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 02:52 AM

Quote:







Rest of the pictures are here: http://www.controlledspin.com/~mike/PICTURES/240z/






How did you do the different paint? Did you do a base and then paint on top of it with the new color? I want to put stripes on my car.. not stickers.. I hate those..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 02:53 AM

Quote:

well, yes I ma not exactly happy.. I can live with replacing the door and the gas cap.. already did the gas cap and got the door on order.. but a !@#! DENT?! come on... well, more of a crease.. that is hard to get to.. Only uneducated deviants with incompetent parents would find amusement in destroying other people's property. Who ever did it is a piece of garbage. That's it.. I am calling INS.. that should get everyone deported except me.

On a sunny note you can see how well the Stops-Rust paint held up.. it didnt chip or crack.. it just got dirty from the greasy mess on the gas lid. You can also see my soft velvet wet sanding.. looks so yummie I could eat it.

I doubt I will be putting my rims on anytime soon!

-Serpent




But the real question is: What kind of person steals a gas door and cap?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 03:19 AM

Quote:



Interesting idea. I may consider that on my test door. However, I'm not really made of money and I love the looks so far so I might not. But somebody should.

Exit: Your pictures before are of the almond color, correct? I'm trying to get something as close to this as possible:





yeah they were almond.. not anywhere close to that bronze color really. The closest thing I see is "light olive" but that isn't really that close either.. maybe they can mix something up for you..
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 03:24 AM

Here's a picture after coat #2.. I did have to wetsand in specific areas where the paint laid on too thick the first time (and i could scratch it with my nail too in these areas ).

it still has that burled mahogany look going on..

if I can pull off 2 coats/day this weekend it should be a solid color by saturday.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 04:02 AM

Compressor for sanding? I WISH! I sanded this whole [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] car by hand with a tiny sanding block!

As far as separating the colors and such, I used some blue masking tape! I just tapes it off and painted one color, then changed the tape around after the other color dried. For the stripes I just used a can of rustoleum spray paint

If I worked straight through and wasn't learning as I went I think I could have had it all done in about 7 days. It ended up taking me about 2 weeks of painting and 1 week or sanding off my mistakes.

Polishing...I sanded with 1500g wet sand paper and that went pretty good. I tried some expensive 3M rubbing compound to rub it out and I wasn't satisifed. I took the advice of this thread and went and bought the cheap-[Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] turtle wax rubbing compound AND polishing compound. I did the whole car with the polishing compound and the areas that didn't polish out very well I went back over with the hard-core rubbing compound to help it out.

The white paint came out GREAT and looks as good as any $1500 paint job. The red paint didn't polish out so well and doesn't shine as well, but it's not too bad, about as good as a $500-700 job. The red actually looked a lot better before I went sanded it smooth, it just had defects in it
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 04:03 AM

Oh...and for wet sanding I didn't mask anything off, I just used two different sets of paper when I did the white and the red, it didn't much the lines at all as long as I was careful
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 04:33 AM

Jagd, shouldn't the red be able to shine as well as it did before, if you get the surface smooth enough? if you view it in the sun, can you see bunches of very small scratches? I wonder if some swirl remover or more time with the polisher would get the surface scratch free and shiny again..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 05:40 AM

Took some daylight shots today, this is just one coat, needs another coat, then wetsand, repeat, blah blah..
Looks pretty good IMO. The reflections of the trees and such are about 30ft away, I can't wait till I get it finished!











Hey, where'd that giant dent go?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 06:37 AM

Jagd that looks great, I like the fact that you were willing to experiment and try a multi-color scheme. Impressive work. Quick question for you though... did the spray bomb strips polish up nicely?

Good luck to everyone else who has started... Exit it is coming along nicely.

Keep the pics and updates coming everyone.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 06:44 AM

Quote:

I will be on my 6th coat of paint tomorrow morning on my hood. After that 6th coat i wetsand it with 2000grit and then polish correct?

I have this polisher, its brand new. Will this work ok? low speed is 1400rpm it says. Pleasseee tell me i can use it

This polisher

Thanks




Question


Also I've finished my 5th coat. For my 6th, and final. Should i wetsand the 5th coat with 1500grit, Paint the last coat, and hit that with 2000wet before i polish. That sound ok?

And then just still my question above..
Thanks!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 12:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I will be on my 6th coat of paint tomorrow morning on my hood. After that 6th coat i wetsand it with 2000grit and then polish correct?

I have this polisher, its brand new. Will this work ok? low speed is 1400rpm it says. Pleasseee tell me i can use it

This polisher

Thanks




Question


Also I've finished my 5th coat. For my 6th, and final. Should i wetsand the 5th coat with 1500grit, Paint the last coat, and hit that with 2000wet before i polish. That sound ok?

And then just still my question above..
Thanks!




The medium cut compound I got at an auto body supply store (evercoat medium duty rubbing compound) says your 1450 RPM should be fine. I dont have any experience with them but I've heard rotary polishers like yours can do damage if not used properly (not sure what "properly" means, but I've heard that type of polisher is less forgiving than an orbital polisher).

GTSDave has one similar to that, maybe he'll chime in with pointers..
at least if it's a hood and it gets messed up, another coat is easy to do..
/ 2 ..
Posted By: KGorney

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 02:02 PM

What is evryone using for polishing after the final 2000 grit wetsand?
I used Turtle Wax polish but it doesn't seem to have the depth that I am seeing in a lot of these photos.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 02:52 PM

Quote:

...if you view it in the sun, can you see bunches of very small scratches? I wonder if some swirl remover or more time with the polisher would get the surface scratch free and shiny again..



I tried rolling then spraying...seemed to lay down ok just much orange peel. Now the problem, buffing causes scratching. A friend of mine who is a "pro" says it's because there is no hardener...the paint will stay soft causing it to be almost unbuffable...probably ok for "budget paint"...i guess I was expecting too much.

Since I painted the whole car, today I am learning to use "aircraft stripper" !! Chuck
Posted By: BBR

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 03:23 PM

Good Lord, I just looked through this thread and felt like I had logged onto a different site. LOL Soooo many new names.


I'm gonna *really* look hard into this for the Ranger.


Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 03:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

...if you view it in the sun, can you see bunches of very small scratches? I wonder if some swirl remover or more time with the polisher would get the surface scratch free and shiny again..



I tried rolling then spraying...seemed to lay down ok just much orange peel. Now the problem, buffing causes scratching. A friend of mine who is a "pro" says it's because there is no hardener...the paint will stay soft causing it to be almost unbuffable...probably ok for "budget paint"...i guess I was expecting too much.

Since I painted the whole car, today I am learning to use "aircraft stripper" !! Chuck




That's unfortunate Chuck. I know there are varying definitions of "soft" but the thin layers put on correctly with a roller seem to be very hard. In my experience, the thicker a layer is the softer it feels.

I am hoping anyway that thin layers with plenty of dry time will result in a surface that can be buffed (or whatever takes the microscratches out). I did a small patch by hand with some swirl remover and even that showed an increase in shine. My bonnet was not staying put on my buffer or I would have spent more time on it with a machine, but the results by hand were promising.

if you look at pics posted by Admactanium and JeffS, you will see a nice shine there.

here is jeff's original post where he talked about buffing..

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=2539474&page=0&vc=1
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 04:14 PM

The rattle can stripes seemed to polish out just as good as the rest of the paint.

Exit,

The red SHOULD polish out as good as the white, but I can't get it to. Thie white is the "PROFESSIONAL" and the red is the regular stuff, maybe that has something to do with it? The red had almost 3 weeks of drying time before I even wet sanded it. Some areas I wet sanded with 1500g 7 or 8 times and polished over and over and over again. In the light, I can see tons of microscratches in it. Thie white paint is nice and glossy and smooth, in fact I hardly did any wetsanding and it looks good. I could work at it more and get it to look even better, but my right arm is still recovering

My plan now is to let it "cure" for a while and then try it again. If it doesn't come out to where I'm happy, I'll eventually sand it off and maybe just go all white
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 04:36 PM

Quote:

..here is jeff's original post where he talked about buffing...




The white seems ok...but it's just not as smooth as what I originally expected. Pictures can be deceiving because they don't show the "orange peel" when they're shrunk down to a jpeg.

...besides, he mentions waxing the car, and when I talked to the local auto paint store, they said no waxing on any type of paint for several months because it seals the paint and doesn't allow proper drying time...that would seem to compound the problem to me...
Posted By: admactanium

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 07:37 PM

Quote:

The red SHOULD polish out as good as the white, but I can't get it to. Thie white is the "PROFESSIONAL" and the red is the regular stuff, maybe that has something to do with it? The red had almost 3 weeks of drying time before I even wet sanded it. Some areas I wet sanded with 1500g 7 or 8 times and polished over and over and over again. In the light, I can see tons of microscratches in it. Thie white paint is nice and glossy and smooth, in fact I hardly did any wetsanding and it looks good. I could work at it more and get it to look even better, but my right arm is still recovering



i think it's your polishing technique/products. white will always look better because it doesn't show scratches or swirling hardly at all. the darker colors are harder to buff out properly and i'd suspect that you won't be able to buff out 1500grit marks fully by hand. if you could work up to 2000 gt and then 3000 gt you might be able to polish it by hand. otherwise you'll need to use some sort of buffer. either an orbital or rotary. rotaries, however, can be very dangerous to your paint and can burn through.

my advice on the polishing is that if you're not going to buy a proper polisher (and more importantly, good pads) then you're going to have a tough time of it. if you're not experienced with rotaries, i'd stay away from them and try to do it with an orbital instead since they're much less dangerous to your finish. most rotaries come with a cheap backing plate and a wool sleeve type thing. if you don't have further pads to do finer polishing you're just going to end up with hazy paint.

back on page 28 i did a test part and polished it up really nice. but i have a ton of weird polishing products for my cars already.
check it out, about halfway down the page.

page 28
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 11:07 PM

welp 6 coats, 2000grit later ive tried polishing one area of my hood. Still way too peely for me, not even close to how some of these other guys have. Its gloss black, i've pretty much done all i can do unless you guys think i can sand it down with a certain grit to try and lose the orange peel...
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 11:28 PM

Any suggestions...



Attached picture 2621049-100_0722.jpg
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 11:39 PM

Quote:

Any suggestions...






Yah-- if there's any orange peel at and step in the process you have to get rid of it before doing any more painting. Then, just keep the coats thin and the mixture thin and you should be fine. I think if the hood was propped on its side, or otherwise not horizontal, that paint would have a lot of runs in it, but since it's got no where to go, it just orange peels.

It's definately either on there too thick, or the mixture is too thick.. probably both since a thin mixture tends to level out on its own. Get rid of that orange peel then get your paint mix real thin, a bit thicker than water, and coat your roller in the mix then push most of it out by rolling it hard in the paint tray over the bumps, now start painting and it should lay flat..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 11:42 PM

Wow, excellent and timely (for me) thread. I just picked up an '86 Merkur XR4Ti last week. Mechanically in sound condition, straight body, but miserable paint.

Started on the paint a few days ago. So far I've done two coats and started wet sanding. Went with 'Sunburst Yellow' which is...uh...quite yellow.

Couple of questions:

1) After the first couple coats I'm noticing a few small rock chips in the hood that I didn't see prior to painting. They are very small and very shallow, but kind of stand out as they seem to have some thicker paint in them now. Do I need to fill them in somehow before continuing, or will the remaining 4+ coats take care of it?

2) I spent an hour wet sanding with 600 grit. If I look at it from above, it looks fine. If I look from an angle with a light shining at an angle, I see a tiny bit of orange peel left here and there. Is this a showstopper and I HAVE to get rid of every single trace of it at this point, or can I continue with the next couple of coats? When I started sanding the hood had horrible orange peel all over, so I've certainly managed to make a huge improvement on it...

Thanks!

I will post pics after the next couple of coats.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 11:43 PM

Quote:


Yah-- if there's any orange peel at and step in the process you have to get rid of it before doing any more painting. Then, just keep the coats thin and the mixture thin and you should be fine. I think if the hood was propped on its side, or otherwise not horizontal, that paint would have a lot of runs in it, but since it's got no where to go, it just orange peels.

It's definately either on there too thick, or the mixture is too thick.. probably both since a thin mixture tends to level out on its own. Get rid of that orange peel then get your paint mix real thin, a bit thicker than water, and coat your roller in the mix then push most of it out by rolling it hard in the paint tray over the bumps, now start painting and it should lay flat..




Ok thanks, the first coat or two i think was too thick,then i had it really thinned out. got a bagillion air bubbles, some popped on their own..anyway, what is my next step? Hit it with some wet 600grit and hope to knock out the orange peel? What do you guys suggest?

Thanks
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/12/06 11:47 PM

thats too bad GoodysGotaCuda, I think sanding down, maybe with 600 and trying another layer or 2 would help.

Exit - just curious, what size are those centerlines? offset?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/13/06 12:52 AM

Yeah I'd hit it with 600. Incidentally, I'm running into the exact same problem on my roof! I can scratch it, too. It's hard to see what I'm doing up there when I'm doing it, so I must have just put it on way too thick there. I'm going to start wetsanding now.. the roof is going to take me awhile..

:|

I'm not sure about those wheels, I know they are 15 inch but that's all I know. Maybe 15x7, don't know the backspacing, they were on the car when I got it. the front wheels are 14". I'm going to put a big bolt setup on the back and probably put those wheels up front and run some black steelies until I can minitub it, then I'll get some centerlines of the proper offset to run some meat back there.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/13/06 01:09 AM

Quote:

Yeah I'd hit it with 600. Incidentally, I'm running into the exact same problem on my roof! I can scratch it, too. It's hard to see what I'm doing up there when I'm doing it, so I must have just put it on way too thick there. I'm going to start wetsanding now.. the roof is going to take me awhile..





I dont think i did a good enough wetsanding job between coats. i didnt realize how much more i should been doing..ah well, no big deal, i can fix it..i hope lol. One thing is my paint is HARD. i paint it, let it sit in the garage for about 2hours, back it out and let it bake in the vegas sun...paint is rock hard after not long
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/13/06 01:40 AM

Quote:

Wow, excellent and timely (for me) thread. I just picked up an '86 Merkur XR4Ti last week. Mechanically in sound condition, straight body, but miserable paint.

Started on the paint a few days ago. So far I've done two coats and started wet sanding. Went with 'Sunburst Yellow' which is...uh...quite yellow.

Couple of questions:

1) After the first couple coats I'm noticing a few small rock chips in the hood that I didn't see prior to painting. They are very small and very shallow, but kind of stand out as they seem to have some thicker paint in them now. Do I need to fill them in somehow before continuing, or will the remaining 4+ coats take care of it?

2) I spent an hour wet sanding with 600 grit. If I look at it from above, it looks fine. If I look from an angle with a light shining at an angle, I see a tiny bit of orange peel left here and there. Is this a showstopper and I HAVE to get rid of every single trace of it at this point, or can I continue with the next couple of coats? When I started sanding the hood had horrible orange peel all over, so I've certainly managed to make a huge improvement on it...

Thanks!

I will post pics after the next couple of coats.




Well, I decided to go back to wetsanding, and got rid of almost everything. Now I have a dull smooth finish with the occasional bright spotting which I intend to get rid of before laying down the next coat.

Still need some advice on the rock chips and how to deal with them. Could I possibly use a tooth pick and tranfer some non-diluted paint to them and then sand down the excess?

I'm brand new to paint work, so apologies if these are silly questions.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/13/06 02:16 AM

Goody - if you are wetsanding with a block, I would be surprised if you don't see the "peel" still showing after you think you are done sanding. As much peel as is showing in the photo, you should see it.

Definitely bite the bullet and go to a more coarse grit, and sand it till its flat - you really should see it when its there.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/13/06 02:29 AM

Quote:

Goody - if you are wetsanding with a block, I would be surprised if you don't see the "peel" still showing after you think you are done sanding. As much peel as is showing in the photo, you should see it.

Definitely bite the bullet and go to a more coarse grit, and sand it till its flat - you really should see it when its there.




its a combination of maybe a little too thick initial coat, and me not knowing how far to wetsand...so i probably didnt sand enough. lesson learned, easy enough to fix and get it nice and flat...or it should be easy atleast
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/13/06 02:52 AM

Quote:

....... Went with 'Sunburst Yellow' which is...uh...quite yellow.

....After the first couple coats I'm noticing a few small rock chips in the hood that I didn't see prior to painting.




One thing about red and yellow paint is that in my experience they always require more coats than other paint. They are both very translucent. If I were doing either of those colours I would likely do one or two coats of white before the red or yellow coats as a base.

For any large scratches or chips that appear use “Icing” or "Polyester glazing putty" Do not use anything that doesn’t mix with a hardener. The air-dry stuff in a tube takes 24 hours to dry, will shrink and can be affected by solvents in the paint.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/13/06 07:32 AM

Okay, it only took me 3 days to read this entire thread from start to finish, making sure to absorb it all.

I have a project "free crx" that I'm toying with. I figured I'd try out this method, as a friend runs an autobody shop and I want to show him if it'll work. Anyway.

Just something that I've done before, while wetsanding. First of all, as mentioned before. While wetsanding, you should always only sand in one direction (back and forth is fine, but the lines should all be in the same direction). No circular motion.

I prefer to use a rubber block for large flat surfaces and my hands for around edges (its too easy to blow through the paint on hard edges with a block).

I pre-wet the surface with a clean rag, then use my hand, by continually dunking it in the water. After that, I just keep dunking the paper/block into the bucket of water (with a lil soap).

The one trick I've learned (taught actually) is to use one of the rubber bondo blades (rectangular piece with a "knife edge") to clear the area I just wetsanded, to check progress. This essentially "squeegies" the area of water and by looking at it at an angle, I can see how much "peel" there is to it.

I'm also used to using either 2000 or a little higher for a final wetsand. It leaves less microscratches in the paint, but as was already stated, you can't remove the "haze" without a good buffing.

I will post any progress I make, once it stops raining in the northeast. If its anything like last year, I won't see the sun until June.
Posted By: DANIMAL41

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/13/06 01:30 PM

Its was like any other car by the 6th coat.I had very little orangepeel after the 4th coat,almost none after 5th coat,6th coat came out nice and smooth.Dont give up yet.I am starting over on the same trunk lid today using R/O pro Hunter Green.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color - 05/13/06 02:53 PM

Quote:

I can't see the pics, unfortunately. WeToddDid must not allow linking here. Anyway, I wondered what the Dark Purple or Sail Blue would look like. A local shop owner (Hai) has a ride that is a similiar color.





Sail blue!




Note - this is coat 1, done with a Wagner Power Painter, outside, with a steady breeze. LOL.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color - 05/13/06 06:49 PM

did u thin the paint out at all?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Color - 05/13/06 07:02 PM

For the first coat, it was thinned about 5%. It was too thick for the Wagner to paint evenly. Second coat was thinned ~15%, which just about right. Too bad the gardeners came about 20 minuted after and blew grass clippings all over it while it was drying in the sun.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/13/06 09:21 PM

Here are a couple pics of the first coat, which like everyone else, went on too thick, lesson learned (new moto, thinner the better). I'm just testing on hood, it isn't in the best shape to begin with and I only half @$$ preped one spot, then cleaned with minerals spirits. BTW, the color is the dark green Tremclad from the local Walmart. I know there were a few that were curious about the color.

Attached picture 2623065-IMG_9006-1.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/13/06 09:47 PM

another

Attached picture 2623100-IMG_9007-1.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/13/06 09:49 PM

last one

Attached picture 2623103-IMG_9008-1.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/14/06 12:01 AM

where did you guys buy your 100% minerial spirit at? couldnt find any at homedepo or wallmart. thx
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/14/06 12:31 AM

Quote:

where did you guys buy your 100% minerial spirit at? couldnt find any at homedepo or wallmart. thx




try kelly moore, look for the paint thinner that says its made from 100% mineral spirits.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/14/06 03:51 AM

Quote:

Here are a couple pics of the first coat, which like everyone else, went on too thick, lesson learned (new moto, thinner the better).




yes you went way to thick. And those runs man!! you have to roll them out. You need to thin it down much more. then just do a litte spot about 12" square. that way if its still to thick you dont have to sand your hand off to get the orange peel out. And your going to have alot of orange peel there to flatten out. just do a little spot to test consistency. when you get it thin enough it will lay down flat like glass. you will know when you have it there.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/14/06 03:57 PM

Yeah thats kinda what I did, and why I only prep'd a small area in the center, because I was only planning to test a small area, but then put to much on and had to spread it around which inturn covered the whole hood. I'm only going to work on the center. The hood as a whole is in pretty bad shape, and rusty spots were painted over to spread the paint around.

Can see everything here:
http://s70.photobucket.com/albums/i114/outoftheblue9/

Attached picture 2624807-IMG_9038-2-sanded.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/14/06 04:01 PM

Here is after painting the 3rd coat. BTW, this test piece wiill be used more to see how much shine I can get when finished, to see if its worth spending time on doing a full car.

So far, it hardens to sand in 8 hours.

Attached picture 2624824-IMG_9039-3.JPG
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/14/06 09:37 PM

Quote:


One thing about red and yellow paint is that in my experience they always require more coats than other paint. They are both very translucent. If I were doing either of those colours I would likely do one or two coats of white before the red or yellow coats as a base.





That seems to be the case with my car! I have just put on the 4th coat, and it's still partially see through where there is light/dark contrast color underneath. I will do the normal wetsanding every 2 coats till it's totally solid color, then do one more coat before final wetsand and polish.

It is getting redder and shinier though, it's nice to see.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/15/06 02:13 AM

Quote:


That seems to be the case with my car! I have just put on the 4th coat, and it's still partially see through where there is light/dark contrast color underneath. I will do the normal wetsanding every 2 coats till it's totally solid color, then do one more coat before final wetsand and polish.

It is getting redder and shinier though, it's nice to see.






Yep, mine's looking about the same after coat #4 (except yellow, obviously). A couple of places where I wetsanded pretty heavily have a little bit of a darker tone from the maroon original paint, but it's definitely getting there. We'll see if 6 coats do it; if not I'll go for 8.

Also learned today that the fender on my Merk is spot welded; so much for my plan to pull it off and pound out the shallow dent from the inside. Guess it's slide hammer time, unless somebody has a better idea.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/15/06 02:21 AM

Same- but I was under the impression that I was putting on my coats too thin so the 4th coat I went thicker. I didn't count the first too coats I did.. but if I do count them then I did 9 coats all together.

-Serp
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/15/06 04:14 PM

Another new poster here, but I've been lurking since this topic was only 8 pages long. Lurking, reading .. and waiting for the weather to cooperate.

I just rolled out the fourth coat on the trunklid of my '70 VW Fastback this morning and took some pics. I'm not going into this completely blind, I practiced on the license lite housing first. So far so good. The color I mixed myself. It's Dark Hunter Green mixed with gloss black, trying to match original color of the car. Took three tries but I got pretty darn close .. or at least close enough.

Conditions aren't ideal, I'm in the driveway, there's cats around, trees, bushes .. all kinds of crud to fall into the paint. I really, REALLY need to get the garage cleaned out.

Pic 1, overview
Pic 2, close-up
Pic 3, another close-up.

I can't get closer without pixellation .. my digicam sux.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/15/06 08:44 PM

Yo guys,
I just put some of my car back together, 2 coats on the roof and 2 coats on the front fender and rear panels. My paint messed up on the doors and I had to strip it. I'm not sure what happend, the paint kept seperating from the mineral spirits. But the hood is finished, I just have to finish wetsanding and polish it. But I have a problem, when you get it into the sun it shows very small scrathes in it. Any clue how to get them out? Thanks

After wetsanding and before polish:


After polishing by hand: (those are the clouds that are reflecting)


Side shot just becuase:
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/15/06 09:09 PM

Quote:

....the paint kept seperating from the mineral spirits....





Are you using 100% pure mineral spirits? Not painthinner - or low odour mineral spirits?
Did you use a solvent on the surface of the doors to remove silicon and wax?
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/15/06 09:19 PM

Knocked my paint down with wet 400grit. Took out a LOT of the peel, i need to go back and hit it again, then with 600...then paint. When its wet it looks 1000x better than it did before. NO peel, looks like i should be able to get the paint on a good base this time and get some results
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/15/06 11:15 PM

I think it is also possible to put too much mineral spirits in. That is what I did and it appeared that the paint was separating from the minerals spirits once applied. It is also possible it wasn't mixed vigorously enough before appling. So just double check that you are mixing it enough and its not being mixed way to thin. From one extreme to the other for me.

My test peice is on hold for 2 weeks until I can get back to my parents to finish it. I'm having problems with the paint not laying down flat. I get alot of bubbles when I apply it, and good huff and they are gone, but where the bubbles were it is peally. I've tried running the roller over it again lightly, but it just makes the peal smaller in texture.

Any ideas on how to get it to lay flat? is everyone getting a little peal and then just sanding it out? Also, I'm using 400 grit to get the peal out, but then there is pretty well no paint left once it is out and am back to square one. What am I doing wrong?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/15/06 11:29 PM

Quote:

I think it is also possible to put too much mineral spirits in. That is what I did and it appeared that the paint was separating from the minerals spirits once applied. It is also possible it wasn't mixed vigorously enough before appling. So just double check that you are mixing it enough and its not being mixed way to thin. From one extreme to the other for me.

My test peice is on hold for 2 weeks until I can get back to my parents to finish it. I'm having problems with the paint not laying down flat. I get alot of bubbles when I apply it, and good huff and they are gone, but where the bubbles were it is peally. I've tried running the roller over it again lightly, but it just makes the peal smaller in texture.

Any ideas on how to get it to lay flat? is everyone getting a little peal and then just sanding it out? Also, I'm using 400 grit to get the peal out, but then there is pretty well no paint left once it is out and am back to square one. What am I doing wrong?




I think you're putting too much paint on. I have gotten smooth results by pushing all I can out of the roller on the roller tray, then pushing down firmly as I roll the paint on the car, which puts down very little paint. I can see in the reflection if I've wet the surface evenly.

If there's too much paint on the roller, there will be runs, bubbles, all kinds of bad things. It' s alot quicker to just unload most of the paint out of the roller, push firmly on it when applying the paint.

I got in the zone of doing it well my last coat, I would just dab the roller into the paint, push it out a few times, then use just that amount to paint a surface about 1.5" by 3" long. It goes on THIN but it will not run and it will not orange peel at that thickness.

If you are doing a test area that's laying flat, do whatever you can to put it sideways so that you get practice with the right technique. With the right technique (needed to do a car) you will care most about the surfaces on the side of the car where people can see- and if you try to put too much paint on the side, it will run and you will know you're not doing it right. Practicing on a surface where the paint can only "fall" directly towards the surface is not as beneficial because only a portion of the car is like that, and if you master the technique used to paint a door or something where the paint has to be the right thickness during application, you will be able to do flat (horizontal) surfaces easily as well.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 12:56 AM

So you are ringing out the roller pretty well before using it, do you have to press pretty hard on the roller to get the paint to apply and come out of the roller? How about speed of rolling, does it really matter how fast? What is the purpose of sanding every 2 coats?

Sorry for all the questions; I would really like this to work.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 01:08 AM

Quote:

...But I have a problem, when you get it into the sun it shows very small scrathes in it. Any clue how to get them out? Thanks




I'm afraid this is gonna be a problem that everyone is eventually gonna face...I had the same thing happen and when I asked my buddy that runs a body shop he said the problem is "there is no hardener in this enamel paint"...

Think about it...you're buffing paint that seems dry and hard but really in a microscopic level it is still a bit soft and when you buff it, you are scratching it. It's a no win situation...no final sand/buff leaves peel and trash, final sand/buff leaves micro-scratches galore...

I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how to salvage my paint job since I completed the whole car before I figured out this problem!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 01:18 AM

thx!Exit1965. but theres no Kelly close to la area... im going to try out Ace Hardware. also, is 100% mineral spirt necessary?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 01:22 AM

I'm afraid this is gonna be a problem that everyone is eventually gonna face...I had the same thing happen and when I asked my buddy that runs a body shop he said the problem is "there is no hardener in this enamel paint"...

Think about it...you're buffing paint that seems dry and hard but really in a microscopic level it is still a bit soft and when you buff it, you are scratching it. It's a no win situation...no final sand/buff leaves peel and trash, final sand/buff leaves micro-scratches galore...

I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how to salvage my paint job since I completed the whole car before I figured out this problem!!

^^^^^QUOTE^^^^


this isnt good news... maybe cause its black?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 01:32 AM

Chuck,

Do you have any pictures you can show us of the problem? It doesn't sound like others have had this problem. This is certainly an issue, and if it is the way my test will go, then it will not be acceptable for my car. Color sanding and buffing is an art, there are forums out there (I think there was a link posted a while back) dedicated alone to pollishing/special compounds and methods. I would really like to see the scratches.

Cal,
yes mineral spirits is necessary because the paint must be thinned to "self-level". If you were refering to the "100%" part then I'd say it hasn't been proven, but there is a theory that the low-odour doesn't work as well and might cause problems with hardening and weird texture issues while drying. I think Exit has run into problems? and a few others
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 01:47 AM

Quote:

Chuck,

Do you have any pictures you can show us of the problem? It doesn't sound like others have had this problem. This is certainly an issue, and if it is the way my test will go, then it will not be acceptable for my car. Color sanding and buffing is an art, there are forums out there (I think there was a link posted a while back) dedicated alone to pollishing/special compounds and methods. I would really like to see the scratches...




Sorry, I don't have pictures. I've already sanded my hood all the way to the metal and the rest of the car hasn't been buffed. Black wasn't the problem 'cause mine is gloss white! It's just those typical spidery looking scratches you get on an older paint job that has been rubbed with towels, etc during it's lifetime...we've all seen it. The paint is soft, buffer puts swirl scratches in it. I think the reason we haven't heard this more is most people are just now getting to this point or they're just not that particular. I want a BC/CC type of shine...just me I guess. Chuck
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 01:56 AM

I'm with you, I'm looking for the same shine as well. Someone might have a better idea, but the only thing I can say is after my 4 coats, the paint was definitly not scratchable with my finger nail. It would have broke right off trying. You may be putting it on too thick like Exit did in his preliminary tests. I hate to say it, but I sure hope its just something you did and it will turn out better for others and myself. Hopefully someone else can pipe in here and talk more about their pollishing experience with this finish.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 02:04 AM

Hi man, have you used the turtle wax polishing compound that was recommended? That should help get rid of most of the spider webbing but you need to take your time and not just do a once over. After that you probably wont have many noticable scratches. You could probably use a product specially designed to remove the swirls. There are some products that fill the very light scratches and make it look like they disapeared. I see spiderwebbing after color sanding with 2000gt .. but havent polished yet.

-Serp
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 04:16 AM

Quote:

So you are ringing out the roller pretty well before using it, do you have to press pretty hard on the roller to get the paint to apply and come out of the roller? How about speed of rolling, does it really matter how fast? What is the purpose of sanding every 2 coats?

Sorry for all the questions; I would really like this to work.




Yes, I press fairly firmly to leave a uniform appearance of wetness across the whole area. Not sure how to describe the speed, but I've gone plenty fast over an area without problem.. just go fast enough to get it quickly spread in a uniform way on the surface. And dont be afraid to roll over it a few times to get it uniform. Just dont take too much time or it will start to dry and you'll have a hard time smoothing it out.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 04:29 AM

I'm using the no order mineral spirits, and it is working fine on the other panels, I think it was because the paint had been sitting for about 2 days mixed. I'm also cleaning/scrubbing down the surface with mineral spirits before paint. I'm not a newb when it comes to painting either. I've painted lots of stuff.

I did all the steps as noted. I suppose it looks pretty good, maybe I should get a scratch remover compound. That was also done with a hand cloth thingy. I can't scarth the paint off if I tried. It's hard as a rock. I told my aunt I would give her a dollar if she could scratch it, and she couldn't. Soo it's awesome stuff. Maybe I should use 2000 for final sand instead of 1500.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 04:54 AM

On the almond test area I did, I saw those spiderwebs quite a bit. Although I didn't spend much time with the orbital buffer on it, nor did I try a compound specifically for removing swirl marks or scratches.

Im looking at this paintjob a bit differently. I dont expect it to be a BC/CC job, maybe like a single stage job. But in either case, the pluses are, it's cheap, it's green as in environmentally friendly, it's easy to touch up, it seems durable, and I wont panic if it gets scratched. if I can get a tremendous gloss, all the better but old cars can get away with a little less lustre than a new car if you ask me. so it's a good thing i'm doing an old dart with it..

I would go 2000 Kahuna instead of 1500 for the final sand.
Posted By: admactanium

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 07:20 PM

Quote:

I'm afraid this is gonna be a problem that everyone is eventually gonna face...I had the same thing happen and when I asked my buddy that runs a body shop he said the problem is "there is no hardener in this enamel paint"...

Think about it...you're buffing paint that seems dry and hard but really in a microscopic level it is still a bit soft and when you buff it, you are scratching it. It's a no win situation...no final sand/buff leaves peel and trash, final sand/buff leaves micro-scratches galore...

I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out how to salvage my paint job since I completed the whole car before I figured out this problem!!



it's your polishing technique. you most definitely can get those microscratches out. but you're not going to do it with turtle wax polishes. you can polish out almost any paint to a mirror finish with those microscratches/swirling/spiderwebbing. but doing it by hand with substandard products isn't going to work.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 07:35 PM

the turtle wax polishing compound is the equivelent to 2500+ grit, the reason why i reccommended it is because it is a very non-aggressive compound, and therefore takes alot of time to polish out, but the good thing is that there is virtually no chance of burning thru the paint, and with really thin coats it is perfect, but like i mentioned about 20 pages ago i would spend about 1 hour to just do the trunk lid, just sit there and let the polisher do the work. you can't expect instant results, if on the otherhand you know how to polish and rub paint out then use whatever you want, just be careful on fresh paint. the turtle wax stuff is really good from my expirence and i did all my cars with it, just takes time. polishing is a art in it'self, for the layman the turtle wax stuff is the way to go.
Posted By: The Avg. Valiant

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 10:08 PM

This is the test piece I used, it came off my race car. It has 7 coats of white gloss pro. In between it was hit with 800 and the last one was hit with 1500 and then 2000. Its not even buffed yet and looks awesome. The rest of the car will be done this way. We still need to add a red boot stripe to the back like on the darts, anyone know the color of red that would be close from the tintable base?
Jacob

Attached picture 2630451-car.JPG
Posted By: The Avg. Valiant

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 10:09 PM

Another

Attached picture 2630452-car4.JPG
Posted By: roe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 10:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Man that is amazing. I like the multitone paint job. On the note of metallic here is an idea. What about laying down 2 coats of color by roller. Followed by a coat of clear metallic followed by more color. If you layered it right it could even give a depth illusion due to varying intensity of reflection. Obviously you wouldn't sand the clear metallic coats.

Eric




Interesting idea. I may consider that on my test door. However, I'm not really made of money and I love the looks so far so I might not. But somebody should.

Exit: Your pictures before are of the almond color, correct? I'm trying to get something as close to this as possible:


Any ideas from the rusto custom colors? I know almond's not quite it though...
This might show the color better:





Looks great. Is that a stock rustoleum color or did you use the tintable base?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 10:31 PM

its not rustoleum its factory paint or w/e...he's asking if there is a rustoleum tint closes to this color


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Man that is amazing. I like the multitone paint job. On the note of metallic here is an idea. What about laying down 2 coats of color by roller. Followed by a coat of clear metallic followed by more color. If you layered it right it could even give a depth illusion due to varying intensity of reflection. Obviously you wouldn't sand the clear metallic coats.

Eric




Interesting idea. I may consider that on my test door. However, I'm not really made of money and I love the looks so far so I might not. But somebody should.

Exit: Your pictures before are of the almond color, correct? I'm trying to get something as close to this as possible:


Any ideas from the rusto custom colors? I know almond's not quite it though...
This might show the color better:





Looks great. Is that a stock rustoleum color or did you use the tintable base?


Posted By: roe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/16/06 11:44 PM

Quote:

its not rustoleum its factory paint or w/e...he's asking if there is a rustoleum tint closes to this color





Oops, I just read it wrong.

Hey for all you guys talking about getting the shine back and getting rid of the spiderweb/micro scratches, I proposed a hypothetical a while back.

Many guys here have said that when they lay on a very thin coat it goes on perfectly smooth with no orange peel or roller lines. After doing the paint process as described (2 coats, wetsand, 2 more coats, wetsand, etc...), has/will anyone try laying on a very thin final coat that will lay flat and not require wetsanding? That way the paint will retain its glossiness and still be smooth, and then move on to polishing/waxing etc. Could somebody maybe try this on a small test piece to see what happens?

I would try it myself but Im in a dorm room and dont have anywhere to to try it, or anything to try it on since all of my car stuff is in another city. If no one tries it before I get a chance to go home one of these weekends, I will try it and see what happens and then post some results to let you guys know how it turns out.

roe
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/17/06 01:04 AM

Quote:



Oops, I just read it wrong.

Hey for all you guys talking about getting the shine back and getting rid of the spiderweb/micro scratches, I proposed a hypothetical a while back.

Many guys here have said that when they lay on a very thin coat it goes on perfectly smooth with no orange peel or roller lines. After doing the paint process as described (2 coats, wetsand, 2 more coats, wetsand, etc...), has/will anyone try laying on a very thin final coat that will lay flat and not require wetsanding? That way the paint will retain its glossiness and still be smooth, and then move on to polishing/waxing etc. Could somebody maybe try this on a small test piece to see what happens?

I would try it myself but Im in a dorm room and dont have anywhere to to try it, or anything to try it on since all of my car stuff is in another city. If no one tries it before I get a chance to go home one of these weekends, I will try it and see what happens and then post some results to let you guys know how it turns out.

roe




It's not a matter of the paint laying flat, it is a matter of tiny imperfections that occur on the paint surface (dust, hair, you name it).

If someone took precautions and got lucky and didn't have anything land in the paint, that would be very good and they should leave it like that, but if not you will have to go over it with something to get the junk out. Then apparently you can polish it back to a great shine.
Posted By: roe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/17/06 02:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Oops, I just read it wrong.

Hey for all you guys talking about getting the shine back and getting rid of the spiderweb/micro scratches, I proposed a hypothetical a while back.

Many guys here have said that when they lay on a very thin coat it goes on perfectly smooth with no orange peel or roller lines. After doing the paint process as described (2 coats, wetsand, 2 more coats, wetsand, etc...), has/will anyone try laying on a very thin final coat that will lay flat and not require wetsanding? That way the paint will retain its glossiness and still be smooth, and then move on to polishing/waxing etc. Could somebody maybe try this on a small test piece to see what happens?

I would try it myself but Im in a dorm room and dont have anywhere to to try it, or anything to try it on since all of my car stuff is in another city. If no one tries it before I get a chance to go home one of these weekends, I will try it and see what happens and then post some results to let you guys know how it turns out.

roe




It's not a matter of the paint laying flat, it is a matter of tiny imperfections that occur on the paint surface (dust, hair, you name it).

If someone took precautions and got lucky and didn't have anything land in the paint, that would be very good and they should leave it like that, but if not you will have to go over it with something to get the junk out. Then apparently you can polish it back to a great shine.




That makes sense. I'll still try it though, as soon as I get a chance, and I'll let you guys know how much trouble I have with debris in the paint.

roe
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/17/06 03:21 AM

Lessons learned...

I did 4 coats and after wet sanding #4 I looked at the reflections of some lights at various angles. Horrible, horrible orange peel. (Honestly, no worse than my '97 Firebird factory paint, but GM factory paint ain't exactly a goal to shoot for!)

Tried sanding with 400 wet and it didn't improve things much.

PROFANITY REFERENCE DELETED and took it down with 320 dry... then 400 wet, then 600 wet. Now the reflection is clear and sharp, zero peel, but I've effectively lost two coats judging by how much the stock paint shows through in some areas.

Pretty sure I laid it on too thick on the first and second coat. Ah well, paint's cheap and the labor is free, so hopefully I'll do better from now on.

Not sure how to advice avoiding this, but wiping down with mineral spirits after wet sanding and looking at the reflection of a fluorescent light really makes the imperfections clear.

Just my $.02, hoping it'll help somebody.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/17/06 04:09 AM

Just put on my 5th coat. I seem to have more trouble with the horizontal surfaces than the vertical ones. I've noticed a few spots on the decklid and hood where it's not as shiny as the rest of the paint there, so I was too stingy (probably unconsciously trying to avoid orange peel like I had to sand off after my first 2 coats..). By the way in case you can't see, it's still see through. but it's definately getting there.

But as Moose says, labor (and sweat, in a 93 degree garage!) is "free". And I'm only about 1.25 quarts in paint-wise.

Heres some pics I just took..




Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/17/06 04:17 AM

Quote:

Lessons learned...

I did 4 coats and after wet sanding #4 I looked at the reflections of some lights at various angles. Horrible, horrible orange peel. (Honestly, no worse than my '97 Firebird factory paint, but GM factory paint ain't exactly a goal to shoot for!)

Tried sanding with 400 wet and it didn't improve things much.

Ended up saying F it and took it down with 320 dry... then 400 wet, then 600 wet. Now the reflection is clear and sharp, zero peel, but I've effectively lost two coats judging by how much the stock paint shows through in some areas.

Pretty sure I laid it on too thick on the first and second coat. Ah well, paint's cheap and the labor is free, so hopefully I'll do better from now on.

Not sure how to advice avoiding this, but wiping down with mineral spirits after wet sanding and looking at the reflection of a fluorescent light really makes the imperfections clear.

Just my $.02, hoping it'll help somebody.




Thats exactly what i did, i got away with wet 400. now its wet 600, and ill prolly put a coat on tomorrow morning and go from there
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/17/06 06:50 AM

did anybody apply the paint with a turbine sprayer?? like those mobile repair guys??
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/17/06 01:30 PM

Exit... it's turning out really good, man!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/17/06 08:17 PM


Any ideas from the rusto custom colors? I know almond's not quite it though...
This might show the color better:






nice color! from the list here http://www.expresspaint.com/productcart/pc/step3.asp

not sure if its a 99yr model but it looks like its the Moonlight or Mesa Beige Metallic...theres a few others that looks similiar too..02 model would be Champagne Beige Metallic.

rust-oleum is tintable? i was looking at some at home-depo and the man said he can tint it...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/17/06 09:16 PM

I stole this off Hotrodders BB thought it might be of use to someone here:


http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/tip-day-16-a-71240.html


Tip of the day #16

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When color sanding a panel use different directions for different paper grits..

For example: Sand vertical with 1000, then when you sand with 1500 or 2000 sand horizontally... This will aid you in "seeing" if you lower grit scratches are being removed...

Also after using 2000 and you think everything is good to go, using the 4000 pad on a DA as our Jclark does really shows up any scratches that you may have missed!!! It ( 4000 grit pad) will give a low gloss luster and remove the 2000 marks, but if there is anything else still left behind it will show them up like a highlight...

Finally let the car,truck/panel... whatever it is set in the sun after you sand it for at least a few hours.. then pull it back in and buff it after it has cooled to room temp... Our own Expert Resident Barry Kives recommends this and I have tried it and it works great... It really does improve buffing and the final product If you have the time let it set for a day and buff the next day

If you are doing a hot rod ,show car or dark color this is a great help!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/18/06 12:32 AM

Well, things are not going so well.

Spent about two hours getting rid of orange peel. Made the next coat really nice and thin. Now I have orange peel AND runs, no matter how thin and smooth I laid it down. (It was near-water consistency)

Ideas?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/18/06 12:55 AM

Quote:

Well, things are not going so well.

Spent about two hours getting rid of orange peel. Made the next coat really nice and thin. Now I have orange peel AND runs, no matter how thin and smooth I laid it down. (It was near-water consistency)

Ideas?




how many layers before you started sanding? for runs i would run it over it again or go slightly thicker.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/18/06 01:38 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Well, things are not going so well.

Spent about two hours getting rid of orange peel. Made the next coat really nice and thin. Now I have orange peel AND runs, no matter how thin and smooth I laid it down. (It was near-water consistency)

Ideas?




how many layers before you started sanding? for runs i would run it over it again or go slightly thicker.




I did two layers, wetsanded, two more layers, wetsanded. At that point I was seeing a lot of orange peel, and ended up sanding with 320 grit until it was smooth again. Thinned the paint out a good bit more and laid on another coat, and I'm seeing a ton of orange peel again. No clue what I'm doing wrong at this point and it's getting pretty frustrating.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/18/06 01:54 AM

Quote:

Well, things are not going so well.

Spent about two hours getting rid of orange peel. Made the next coat really nice and thin. Now I have orange peel AND runs, no matter how thin and smooth I laid it down. (It was near-water consistency)

Ideas?




What color are you using?

If it's like water, I think that's too thin. Water is very thin, in my experience anything that thin would definately run. Try near a whole milk type consistency (not skim milk) or a bit thicker.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/18/06 02:08 AM

Quote:



What color are you using?

If it's like water, I think that's too thin. Water is very thin, in my experience anything that thin would definately run. Try near a whole milk type consistency (not skim milk) or a bit thicker.




Using yellow.

I think my problem is with the application.

Should you soak the roller enough that it gives smooth coverage with little pressure, or go ahead and push down to get the paint everywhere, then roll over it again with light pressure?

Thanks for your help... I know this can be done and I am not going to give up, but I'm in need of some help and advice.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/18/06 02:11 AM

Quote:

HEy guys, how does bondo hold onto to this paint? I was bondo'ing a small area on my door when i accidently dropped a small piece as i was waking away and didnt realize it till today and trying to take it off is not even possible its like ROCK HARD and wont scrap off, i read somewhere on the net that when repairing RUST, they suggested to wire the rust down to metal then prime, paint rustoleum over it and then put bondo on top o.O Sounds wierd but it seems to not wanna lET GO off of my car so since my car is pretty much a ABUSE car i had small nickle dings here and there which i have applied bondo to and smoothed it out, and it doesnt wanna come off either, will post pics later.




I hope you're right I found a little ding on my drivers side door that I didnt see before I had paint. I'm going to bondo right over it. Will see how it works but I probably wont get to my 6th coat till tomorrow and the dent is fixed.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/18/06 05:02 AM

This little ding was a breeze to fix. It doesn't show any signs of not adhering well to the rustoleum either. I went with 80 grit, then 180, then 400 and water and it's flat now. The only thing is this area is going to need the 8+ coats the rest of the door will need. I think this door will have lots and lots of coats on it. Extra protection against people opening their door into the car I suppose.


Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/18/06 11:22 PM

Quote:



Using yellow.

I think my problem is with the application.

Should you soak the roller enough that it gives smooth coverage with little pressure, or go ahead and push down to get the paint everywhere, then roll over it again with light pressure?

Thanks for your help... I know this can be done and I am not going to give up, but I'm in need of some help and advice.




Well, revelation!

I learned some things today that I want to share in case it helps somebody else out.

* Check out other cars in the parking lot at work or at the store, using the same critical eye and angles you're checking your own work out with. Guess what? I did and something like HALF of the cars I checked had WORSE orange peel than what I considered 'horrible' on mine. Kind of puts things in perspective when several of the automakers crank out worse work than I'm doing in my garage with a foam roller and sandpaper.

* Thin the paint out. It seems like I am at 40% mineral spirits at this point, but I can tell that things are going the right way. I won't bother to measure and rather add until it's milk-like consistency from now on.

* Thin your coats out! I re-read the thread a couple of times and started pushing the paint out of the roller so that it wasn't really soaked when I put it on the car. Then I pushed down on it while rolling to squish the paint out. Got very thin, smooth coats, and even tried it on a vertical surface. Zero runs and very even!

The last coat hasn't dried yet and I can already tell it'll be tons better than any of my previous ones.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/19/06 05:25 AM

Way to go moose, sounds like you're on your way! by the way, lets see some pics..

I just put my 6th coat on and it's starting to glisten nicely. It's hard to judge, but maybe another 4-5 coats should have it completely colored (except the driver's door where the ding was repaired).

I'm to the point where I can do the whole car in 1.5 hours now, but the time really flies with some good music or talk radio and watching the thing shine as the paint is going on. I've got some computer speakers around the window, and a subwoofer on the floor, hooked to an mp3 player. sounds quite nice in there



Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/19/06 05:43 AM

Quote:

Way to go moose, sounds like you're on your way! by the way, lets see some pics..

I just put my 6th coat on and it's starting to glisten nicely. It's hard to judge, but maybe another 4-5 coats should have it completely colored (except the driver's door where the ding was repaired).

I'm to the point where I can do the whole car in 1.5 hours now, but the time really flies with some good music or talk radio and watching the thing shine as the paint is going on. I've got some computer speakers around the window, and a subwoofer on the floor, hooked to an mp3 player. sounds quite nice in there









so how does the paint look up close? any peeling? runs? how often have you been wetsanding/grit?

Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/19/06 12:59 PM

Quote:




so how does the paint look up close? any peeling? runs? how often have you been wetsanding/grit?








Its hard to get a good pic with this lighting of a close up area, but here's a try. The entire surface is the same, very very slight orange peel. less than is seen on most american cars, but it has not been wetsanded yet either (after these 2 coats anyway).

I sanded after coats 2 and 4 with 600, I am going to move to 800 now, maybe 1000.

Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/19/06 01:23 PM

very nice exit1965, your really doing a good job, i'm sure you've got the process down pat from your pics, after your final wetsand and buff you'll be like , i'm excited to see your final result out in the sun. one other tip exit, after your final coat, and about 1 day of drying or overnight, put the car out in the sun for a day before your final wetsand and polish, that really hardens up the paint. i'll look good. i think the problem is that most people don't realize what the factory paint looked like on thses cars, when comparing to new BC/CC paints that look wet all the time. the factory paint on these cars looked worse than your paint job. just think, now that you've got all this expirence how fast you could do it again knowing what you do now. and what i really like is the ease of the work, no pressure, take your time, no mess. awesome job. now get that car on the road where it should be.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/19/06 05:07 PM

have you tried a scratch test recently? I am curious how your paint is holding up after all the layers.

How did the paint handle when you sanded down to fix the dent? Did it chip off, smear off or something else?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/19/06 05:15 PM

Quote:

have you tried a scratch test recently? I am curious how your paint is holding up after all the layers.

How did the paint handle when you sanded down to fix the dent? Did it chip off, smear off or something else?




Yeah I try a scratch test after every coat and it doesn't scratch at all.

Its really pretty simple - as long as the stuff is on there thin and there's no runs, and it passes a scratch test, it's dry. If there are runs, those runs are what scratch off because they haven't dried completely since the paint is thick in that area (and never will dry right). Orange peel is thicker paint-thinner paint -thicker paint, so that definately needs to come off if it's bad.

The paint came off as expected when I sanded it, in powder form. I only scratched the area where the ding was with 80 grit to give it teeth, then did bondo, but the sanding affected the area around the ding, and that sanded off in powder, didn't clog up the paper or anything. It was very easy to fix the ding and to smooth out and 'feather' the area around the ding.

Thanks for the words Charger. I can't put it out in the sun for a day though unless I can figure out a way to move it up and down my driveway. I can let it bake in my garage for a few days at 95 degrees though
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/19/06 05:44 PM

Exit1965,
How long are you letting it dry between coats? Also how long before sanding?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/19/06 06:35 PM

Quote:

Exit1965,
How long are you letting it dry between coats? Also how long before sanding?




I've been giving it a day between coats. That's most convenient too, because I dont want to spend 1.5 hours in the morning painting it before I go to work, so I've been painting in the evenings. Similarly, I'll sand in the evening when the last coat was put on a day before, so roughly 24 hours between coats or after a coat and before sanding..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/20/06 12:05 AM

I have a few runs and a little orange peel, but what really bothers me is the splotchyness. How do I get that to go away?

I'm finished my third coat and i'm going to wetsand tomorrow.

Thanks,

Nick
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/20/06 12:58 AM

Quote:

I have a few runs and a little orange peel, but what really bothers me is the splotchyness. How do I get that to go away?

I'm finished my third coat and i'm going to wetsand tomorrow.

Thanks,

Nick




Can you describe the 'splotchyness'?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/20/06 01:04 AM

Quote:

I have a few runs and a little orange peel, but what really bothers me is the splotchyness. How do I get that to go away?

I'm finished my third coat and i'm going to wetsand tomorrow.

Thanks,

Nick




Is the splotchyness you're talking about where some areas are glossy and others look like sandpaper? If that's what you mean, I had some of that too, but that is from putting too little paint on. there's a line between too little and not enough, but i've found if you roll over the area enough times (quickly, right after you've put some paint on it the first time) those splotchy areas will not happen. It's just a matter of redistributing the paint evenly.

if the splotchyness is being see through, that will go away with more coats.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/20/06 04:56 AM

Quote:


Can you describe the 'splotchyness'?




It looks like what happened when my air compressor started overheating when I sprayed my car a couple of years ago

its glossy on some areas, but not in others.
Posted By: Forgiven

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/20/06 04:31 PM

Has anyone tried spraying the Rustoleum yet? Particularly the tintable base ("high gloss") stuff? If so, has anyone had success or problems, and what were they? Considering spraying it, but want to test the waters first...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/20/06 05:37 PM

Just thought you guys would be interested in this. On the TV show Trucks! on SpikeTV, they are applying primer to one of their projects, with a roller. They are saying "applying it in a way you never thought about before". Figured I'd chime in.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/20/06 06:13 PM

i'm probably going to do 5 coats total, my question back to the splotchyness. When I wetsand the car, does will the splotchyness go away? I just want to get rid of that splotchyness and polish the paint. The car looks 100% better besides the splotchyness and I just want to finish the car now.

Thanks,
Nick
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/20/06 08:36 PM

any west coasters, spike tv, the show trucks. they showed a little preview of whats next. they showed ROLLING primer over a patch they just made
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/20/06 10:34 PM

Quote:

i'm probably going to do 5 coats total, my question back to the splotchyness. When I wetsand the car, does will the splotchyness go away? I just want to get rid of that splotchyness and polish the paint. The car looks 100% better besides the splotchyness and I just want to finish the car now.

Thanks,
Nick




Nick, I dont know if you saw it but I replied to your original question above (the 2nd post after your question).



I didn't see the show "trucks" but the roll on primer was discussed a few months ago on this very thread (dont ask me to try and find it ). there was a link to an auto body industry website describing the application process.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/20/06 11:55 PM

exit1965

so i have to repaint, wetsanding will not get rid of it?

here are some pics of my car

http://www.latech.edu/~njt002/car/paint (not 56k friendly)
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 01:17 AM

Quote:

exit1965

so i have to repaint, wetsanding will not get rid of it?

here are some pics of my car

http://www.latech.edu/~njt002/car/paint (not 56k friendly)




I think wetsanding/polishing that area could make it shine, so you may want to try that first. I assume you were done with your coats? Then go head and try your final wetsanding with 2000 or so and see if you can get everything to look the same, then go ahead and polish it.

On my little test areas I did a couple months back, after the final wetsand (which I did with 1500), the surface was kind of glossy at that point. If there's existing areas of splotchyness, which means less paint got there on that layer, I think you'll end up going through that area to the layer underneath, while the glossy areas this wont be necessary and you'll be polishing a different layer for those areas. I'm not sure if it will matter in terms of how it looks..

let us know, because i am finding those here and there on my car, but I really am trying to avoid them by rolling over areas a few more times to try to get the paint to lay evenly..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 01:29 AM

did anybody try using a turbine sprayer to lay the paint down??
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 04:27 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Can you describe the 'splotchyness'?




It looks like what happened when my air compressor started overheating when I sprayed my car a couple of years ago

its glossy on some areas, but not in others.




I'm looking at your pictures and waiting to do my integra also. I was wondering if those pictures are done with the compressor(being sprayed) or are you using the roll on method? Thanks
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 04:40 AM

Quote:




I'm looking at your pictures and waiting to do my integra also. I was wondering if those pictures are done with the compressor(being sprayed) or are you using the roll on method? Thanks




if you look in one of the pics you can see what i'm using; just a roller and a foam brush.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 05:55 AM

alright... i still have to paint one door handle, and take some of the paint off the side moldings, and also buff... a quick question... i bought this buffer, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...N%3AIT&rd=1, will this work, and will it bring out the shine? as of now, i really have no shine...

















Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 01:07 PM

Seems like it should work. You could probably polish by hand but it would take a while. I had a 10" Ryobi but I took it back because it was too big for polishing out my rocker panels and spoiler.. I finally got the 6" yesterday and used it last night.. man, polishing really does bring out the shine. Even with all the polish residue on my test piece I can see reflections through it. I suppose I should clean it up a bit. I am going to test another polish today. It is like 5 times the cost of the Turtle Wax product

-Serp
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 01:10 PM

I have been fixing that goofy dent and gas lid problem. I got the gas lid on thursday and just started painting. While I was fixing the dent I figured I should just fix the rest annoyances... so I fixed a rough area on the front spoiler and rear bumper and patched the two holes in the nose where the emblem goes. I am not sure what those were for but when I put the new emblem I could see part of the hole..

Anyway, what is the difference between the terry bonnet and the wool one? I wasnt sure which one to use when I polished so I used the terry bonnet and it seems to be working good. Is the wool one for metals or something?

Oh and started painting my black metal trim with gloss black.. very nice paint it comes out very smooth and shiny

Thanks,
-Serp
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 02:48 PM

I remember reading in here somewhere to use a soft foam pad.

So do you like that Ryobi 6 inch polisher? thats the one I was thinknig of getting..
Posted By: The Avg. Valiant

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 05:52 PM

I was watching trucks or musclecar or one of those, and they said something about that roller primer. Anyone know anything about that? What its called, where to get it?
Jacob
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 06:28 PM

I'm painting my car high gloss black. The areas that i wet sanded came out nice and smooth, but they turned very light grey. I used 800 grit for wetsanding if that matters.

I have tried two different wax nu2000, turtle wax with color guard and they didnt work. I just went to the store and got some of the recommended turtle wax and some turtle wax polishing compound. I'm currently trying those two and I will post the results. I dont understand why I cant get that gloss black look back after wetsanding.

I hope I can get the shine back.
Posted By: Clair_Davis

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 06:35 PM

To anyone who's painting flexible bumpers, etc, does the paint seem to be holding up pretty well? I've decided I need to tackle my Daytona first, and it's got flexible bumpers front and rear, as well as some lower body cladding that's made of the same stuff. I'll eventually sell this car, but I dont' want to complicate life for the next owner...

Clair
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 07:19 PM

Quote:

I'm painting my car high gloss black. The areas that i wet sanded came out nice and smooth, but they turned very light grey. I used 800 grit for wetsanding if that matters.

I have tried two different wax nu2000, turtle wax with color guard and they didnt work. I just went to the store and got some of the recommended turtle wax and some turtle wax polishing compound. I'm currently trying those two and I will post the results. I dont understand why I cant get that gloss black look back after wetsanding.

I hope I can get the shine back.




Did you do a final sand with 2000gt? If your surface is looking grey it is probably because of scratches in the surface. I think 800gt is too coarse. Using an electric polisher works great. However, even with the Turtle Wax POLISHING COMPOUND it takes time. Once you finish with the polishing compound you should come to a nice smooth surface.. then you could follow up with a wax. I am not sure if the paint is the problem because others have been successful.

Cheers,
-Serp
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 07:22 PM

Quote:

To anyone who's painting flexible bumpers, etc, does the paint seem to be holding up pretty well? I've decided I need to tackle my Daytona first, and it's got flexible bumpers front and rear, as well as some lower body cladding that's made of the same stuff. I'll eventually sell this car, but I dont' want to complicate life for the next owner...

Clair



Yar my rear bumper is one big flexable, thin shell. The paint seems to adhere with no signs of difficulty.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 08:01 PM


You can buy it from Autobodystore.com:


http://makeashorterlink.com/?M19A3142D




Quote:

I was watching trucks or musclecar or one of those, and they said something about that roller primer. Anyone know anything about that? What its called, where to get it?
Jacob


Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 08:41 PM

Quote:


Did you do a final sand with 2000gt? If your surface is looking grey it is probably because of scratches in the surface. I think 800gt is too coarse. Using an electric polisher works great. However, even with the Turtle Wax POLISHING COMPOUND it takes time. Once you finish with the polishing compound you should come to a nice smooth surface.. then you could follow up with a wax. I am not sure if the paint is the problem because others have been successful.

Cheers,
-Serp




thanks for the tips, I dont know how much more work i'm going to put into this car, its just my beater :-). I'm already satified with the results since my expectations where low to start with.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 09:46 PM

how soon can it be waxed after being painted? I recall someone saying that it will be over 2 weeks before the paint drys.

Nick
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 09:54 PM

Quote:

how soon can it be waxed after being painted? I recall someone saying that it will be over 2 weeks before the paint drys.

Nick




wax right after buffing, that's what i did, usually on the last day after the last wetsand i let it sit in the sun for a few hours, on my orange bug i painted it in the dead of a canadian winter, no issues. unlike automotive paints that use hardners and reducers, the rust paint just has the mineral spirits and all the solvent gasses escape in 4 hours or so, from there on it just dries harder, automotive paints release gasses for weeks after painting, that's why u can't wax for at least 2 weeks.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 11:04 PM

I gave up on painting my hood red as I didn't like how the color turned out. I decided to use semi-gloss black instead. I am not getting the results I'm looking for. Can anyone give me some advice on this? Here is a pic:

Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 11:09 PM

Quote:

I gave up on painting my hood red as I didn't like how the color turned out. I decided to use semi-gloss black instead. I am not getting the results I'm looking for. Can anyone give me some advice on this? Here is a pic:






if u want semigloss don't wetsand and polish it, unless u go with gloss.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 11:15 PM

Are you saying that I should dry sand instead? I like the way the color/flatness is, but I am having trouble figuring out how to avoid those dang runs. I've read all pages in this thread and applied every "good" method, but I still get those. Blah.
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 11:23 PM

well if you sand semi-gloss it will be flat, then when u buff it it will be gloss, but a crappy gloss. semi gloss has flattening agents in it and does'nt act like the gloss stuff. if your getting runs then there is only 2 things you can do, 1. apply thinner layers, 2. don't thin the paint as much.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/21/06 11:32 PM

Quote:

I gave up on painting my hood red as I didn't like how the color turned out. I decided to use semi-gloss black instead. I am not getting the results I'm looking for. Can anyone give me some advice on this? Here is a pic:






my integra hood is kicking my butt also. the rest of the car is ok and the paint went over super nice on the polyurthen(ms) bumpers.

if you figure it out tell me. that picture looks just like my hood.

Nivk
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/22/06 01:14 AM

Exit, how many coats have you done so far, and do you have any spots where the original paint can be seen still?

I'm on effectively coat #6 and there are a couple areas where you can kind of see a little dark below... but I'm doing THIN coats.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/22/06 01:16 AM

Quote:

Are you saying that I should dry sand instead? I like the way the color/flatness is, but I am having trouble figuring out how to avoid those dang runs. I've read all pages in this thread and applied every "good" method, but I still get those. Blah.




i think if you place the good on a slant it will not have those problems. I'm going to try that tomorrow.

Nick
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/22/06 01:29 AM

Quote:

Exit, how many coats have you done so far, and do you have any spots where the original paint can be seen still?

I'm on effectively coat #6 and there are a couple areas where you can kind of see a little dark below... but I'm doing THIN coats.




I've still only done the 6 coats and it's see through in spots where there was dark.

The weather has been weird here and I'm waiting for the temps to go back up and the humidity down.. should be ready to roll again Wednesday if the weather man is right.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/22/06 01:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Are you saying that I should dry sand instead? I like the way the color/flatness is, but I am having trouble figuring out how to avoid those dang runs. I've read all pages in this thread and applied every "good" method, but I still get those. Blah.




i think if you place the good on a slant it will not have those problems. I'm going to try that tomorrow.

Nick




I think that would result in more runs. Perhaps your application method is different on the horizontal areas, even slightly, to where you're putting too much paint there since that is what causes the runs.

Press all the paint you can out of that roller (or as much as you can do within about 10-15 seconds) then firmly apply it to the surface. If done right it will leave enough paint to cover the surface but wont show any signs of running at any angle the surface happens to be on.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/22/06 01:53 AM

Thanks Exit, I'll try that next coat. I get alot of bubbles when I press on the roller like that, but I'll do it anyway and see what type of results I can get.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/22/06 03:06 AM

Quote:

Thanks Exit, I'll try that next coat. I get alot of bubbles when I press on the roller like that, but I'll do it anyway and see what type of results I can get.




Ive only gotten bubbles if there's too much paint on the roller.. squeeze more of it out, pushing the roller hard into the bumps in the tray to get it out, then there shouldn't be any bubbles at all.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/22/06 11:41 AM

Quote:

I was watching trucks or musclecar or one of those, and they said something about that roller primer. Anyone know anything about that? What its called, where to get it?
Jacob




Jacob, It was a PPG product which means it's probably pretty pricey. Personally I plan on experimenting with Rustoleum's rusty metal primer and a roller. Jax2A
Posted By: BigTerry

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/22/06 06:35 PM

have anyone try mixing the paint and stuff and take a hood or trunk lid hanging it over a tub and pour the paint over it and letting it drain and pour it on for another coat??
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/22/06 07:04 PM

Quote:

have anyone try mixing the paint and stuff and take a hood or trunk lid hanging it over a tub and pour the paint over it and letting it drain and pour it on for another coat??




haha, and then do the roof how??????????
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/22/06 07:13 PM

Quote:

have anyone try mixing the paint and stuff and take a hood or trunk lid hanging it over a tub and pour the paint over it and letting it drain and pour it on for another coat??




Why on earth would anyone try that?

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/22/06 07:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

have anyone try mixing the paint and stuff and take a hood or trunk lid hanging it over a tub and pour the paint over it and letting it drain and pour it on for another coat??




Why on earth would anyone try that?






Yeah, really.

I had better luck putting the car and paint in a huge plastic bag and shaking it vigorously.

Just make sure you tape off the windows and stuff first.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/22/06 09:01 PM

any tips on buffing? also, how do u apply the compound to the bonnet? lastly... which bonnet is best to use?
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/22/06 09:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

have anyone try mixing the paint and stuff and take a hood or trunk lid hanging it over a tub and pour the paint over it and letting it drain and pour it on for another coat??




Why on earth would anyone try that?






Yeah, really.

I had better luck putting the car and paint in a huge plastic bag and shaking it vigorously.

Just make sure you tape off the windows and stuff first.




LOL. Plus, if you're painting a car blood red like me, and you've got that stuff all over your tub.. its not going to look very good.

For the polishing, you can smear polish onto the applicator (foam pad was recommended here some ways back). On my little test areas I've also wet the surface with spray water, then smushed the polish randomly around the area, then use the polisher to work it all around. Not sure what method ill use on the car, but putting the polish on the car first made it easier on my test area. but they were small areas.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/22/06 11:43 PM

Quote:


Personally I plan on experimenting with Rustoleum's rusty metal primer and a roller. Jax2A




Hey Jax--you only want to use that rusty metal primer on metal that is actually rusted. It contains fish oil and will not be suitable on clean metal. If the oil isn't able to soak into the rusty metal it will wick back up into your finish coat. Use clean metal primer on non-heavily rusted metal. That's what I'm going to use, and I'll roll it on.

I'm planning to roll it on at full strength and add a bit of Penetrol hoping that will help it go on level. I will be sanding the primer anyway and doing at least a couple of coats to get a nice base, so roller marks should be an issue.
Posted By: BigTerry

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/23/06 01:45 AM

hehehe was just wondering wouldn't that save time by taken the hood trunklid and door off and doing that??
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/23/06 07:13 AM

Hi guys, i was shopping at Lowe's and i realized that on their Rustoleum Professional, on the small cans of Safty Yellow, it says Gloss, but on the big can, it doesn't say Gloss, it only says Safty Yellow, so i was wondering if all the Rustoleum Professional paint are glossy, besides where it says FLAT black or flat white...

also, i tried some gloss black, i rolled it on some panels, wet sanded, and when i buff it, it doesn't bring out any gloss....pretty much flat black no matter how i buff/polish it by hand or by machine....any help? thanks!
Posted By: sunroofgtx

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/23/06 11:57 AM

So , if we are planning on using a black, it must be gloss black, and no flat or satin ?? Can flat be sanded , and stay flat, without buffing it ??
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/23/06 02:08 PM

Quote:

Hi guys, i was shopping at Lowe's and i realized that on their Rustoleum Professional, on the small cans of Safty Yellow, it says Gloss, but on the big can, it doesn't say Gloss, it only says Safty Yellow, so i was wondering if all the Rustoleum Professional paint are glossy, besides where it says FLAT black or flat white...

also, i tried some gloss black, i rolled it on some panels, wet sanded, and when i buff it, it doesn't bring out any gloss....pretty much flat black no matter how i buff/polish it by hand or by machine....any help? thanks!




Ive bought almond before that sometimes said gloss and sometimes didn't, but the number was the same and they were both gloss. however the gallons are VOC regulated which is why I bought quarts. I'm not sure if there's a difference because the VOC are from solvents and we are adding mineral spirits as solvent, but I figured what the heck..

For the black, on your final coat what grit(s) of paper did you use? Did you start rough then go finer, or did you start with 1500 or 2000?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/23/06 03:25 PM

Quote:

also, i tried some gloss black, i rolled it on some panels, wet sanded, and when i buff it, it doesn't bring out any gloss....pretty much flat black no matter how i buff/polish it by hand or by machine....any help? thanks!


Maybe your grit was too coarse. I finished a part of my hood with 1500 grit, and then polished and it came out purty!
(those are clouds reflecting in it)


Notice the unsanded to the right. I think it came out awesome!
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/23/06 09:12 PM

ok guys. i need to know if the rustoleum primer is rollable. or any suggestions are welcome.

it looks like i will have to end up selling my duster because we are moving and its not worth spending the $1,100 to ship it from here to florida. and its definately not cross country worthy to drive. So i would like to get it solid color...primer preferably. I don't want to spend the time and sweat outside doing all the coats and trying to polish a bright color up just to sell it. I'd like to do primer...can it be rolled flat like the other color paints?

What do you guys suggest? I really rather not spray bomb it or anything like that.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/23/06 09:32 PM

thanks for the reply!

the VOC(smaller can) and the Quart(bigger can) have different part #s...

on the black, i use the small can that i bought from home depot with says "Stop Rust", but at Lowe's the same can of gloss black, it says Professional on the logo...so i was wondering if i bought the wrong paint...

however on last coat, i was wetsanding from lower grit and ended with 1200grit...so i am guessing i should've gone even higher? 1500 or even 2000? coz the buff barely bring out any shine...a very crappy shine...
Posted By: roe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/23/06 10:37 PM

Quote:

ok guys. i need to know if the rustoleum primer is rollable. or any suggestions are welcome.

it looks like i will have to end up selling my duster because we are moving and its not worth spending the $1,100 to ship it from here to florida. and its definately not cross country worthy to drive. So i would like to get it solid color...primer preferably. I don't want to spend the time and sweat outside doing all the coats and trying to polish a bright color up just to sell it. I'd like to do primer...can it be rolled flat like the other color paints?

What do you guys suggest? I really rather not spray bomb it or anything like that.




Hey GOODY, if you can, find a way to keep that car, you'll need a car thats pretty good on gas and has a/c when you get down here in this hot/muggy/humid florida weather. Besides, when you get down here, rustfree cars like yours cost more money. You guys out in the deserts got it good. Hold on to it if you can.

What part of Fla are you moving to. Im in college in Gainesville, but I keep my car at home in Orlando.

As far as the primer goes, I dont know. Theres been more than one discussed. One was said to be designed for rust, and didnt perform well on good metal. Then there was the spraycan rustoleum primer that a lot of guys have been using with good results. And other guys have said that you can get a primer that you can roller from the auto body stores.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/23/06 10:52 PM

Quote:

thanks for the reply!

the VOC(smaller can) and the Quart(bigger can) have different part #s...

on the black, i use the small can that i bought from home depot with says "Stop Rust", but at Lowe's the same can of gloss black, it says Professional on the logo...so i was wondering if i bought the wrong paint...

however on last coat, i was wetsanding from lower grit and ended with 1200grit...so i am guessing i should've gone even higher? 1500 or even 2000? coz the buff barely bring out any shine...a very crappy shine...




Yes I think the last coat should end with 1500 minimum or 2000.

The professional line of paint is what Im using. Really, I do not know about the difference in the formulation except that the pro stuff is supposed to "dry faster" - although the rustoleum folks told me that about the spray. If the non-spray dries faster, it probably has to do with the solvents, and since we are adding mineral spirits as solvent, again i dont know what difference it makes.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 01:40 AM

here's something i found:

http://cars.500megs.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=29#29
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 02:03 AM

A little tip, let it sit in the sun for about a hour or so until it feels like it is going to burn you. Then take it in is shade and let it cool off. The heating/cooling of the paint makes it stick better. I think it is because the expanding/shrinking of the paint. I also found that it is better to paint when it is cool and then let it dry when it is warm. (painting at night and then letting sit till the afternoon) This also helps with the drying..

That method also works when spraying too. I've been painting stuff for about 6 years now and that is just what I found. Good luck!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 02:47 AM

Whew! I finally finshed this ginormous thread. I was curious why no one elsed tried the PENETROL... Seems to me the pics looked really good. Did I miss something?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 03:55 AM

Well crap. I've been reading this thread for a while after seeing a link from hybridz.org. I really want to do this to my Z since I'm a poor college student...but...I can't find this paint anywhere in my area.

I want the Gloss Orange, but out of the two places I found that do have it in gallons, they don't have the color and don't know how to order it.

Anybody know where to get it online??


...and hey...thanks a lot in advanced Charger. Great posts.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 04:46 AM

Quote:

Whew! I finally finshed this ginormous thread. I was curious why no one elsed tried the PENETROL... Seems to me the pics looked really good. Did I miss something?




I may give penetrol a shot when I roll my engine bay and door jambs. The concern I would have is that since the paint goes on thicker when using penetrol, does that paint dry and level as well as the very thin coats that we get when thinning with mineral spirits?

If it does that would be a sweet deal. The guy who originally (claimed to have?) painted with penetrol with 3 coats, and using a foam brush over the entire surface after apparently misreading 69charger's very clear instructions, has not been heard from since then.



I'll definately post results when I get to the point of trying it on my car. I'm kind of wishing I did more testing with penetrol before, because I'm putting a lot more coats than I bargained for on my dart. Just finished the 7th coat and I'm not sure if 3 more coats will color it completely. But using mineral spirits I have enough experience, and others do, that it can come out well.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 04:56 AM

Exit,

Thanks for the advice. I decided to switch to Pro gloss black and do it your way. Worked very well. 2 coats so far. If I can keep it up, this will turn out quite nice.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 05:14 AM

Quote:

Exit,

Thanks for the advice. I decided to switch to Pro gloss black and do it your way. Worked very well. 2 coats so far. If I can keep it up, this will turn out quite nice.




Cool!

On my 7th coat tonight I was having the problem where the paint was going on too thick, and when I attempted to smooth it out, I would get these random drip/single bubble things that I had to keep going over and over then another one or two would pop up. It was from extra paint coming off the roller. It was very frustrating but I think I chased them all down. But all I had to do was push more paint out of the roller before i took it to the car, and that didn't happen any more. The coats are really thin but at least they dont take much time to sand..

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 11:10 AM

Quote:

have anyone try mixing the paint and stuff and take a hood or trunk lid hanging it over a tub and pour the paint over it and letting it drain and pour it on for another coat??




Wow what a great thread, thanks Charger69.
As far as dipping parts, it has been reported in several Mopar magazines that this is how the Factory actually "painted" certain vehicle components B4 assembly. Apparently they had huge vats of gloss black enamel paint and simply dipped the component into the vat, pulled it out let it drip dry, then install it. Supposedly this process is used when restoring Big Dollar cars.
Would need a big bath tho, to dip a 69 Charger.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 11:34 AM

Quote:

Hey Jax--you only want to use that rusty metal primer on metal that is actually rusted. It contains fish oil and will not be suitable on clean metal. If the oil isn't able to soak into the rusty metal it will wick back up into your finish coat. Use clean metal primer on non-heavily rusted metal. That's what I'm going to use, and I'll roll it on.




Conner, I don't get that, why on earth would they make a primer that doesn't work with their own paint? Just doesn't make sense to me. Is this from experience or heresay? I'm not saying your wrong, I just don't see the value in such a product as primer is generally accepted as a base for other paint layers. I looked at a can of it about a week ago and don't remember seeing a warning saying anything like "use only with XXXXXX topcoat". Thanks for the warning though, I'll investigate it before proceeding.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 01:58 PM

Quote:

Whew! I finally finshed this ginormous thread. I was curious why no one elsed tried the PENETROL...

Seems to me the pics looked really good. Did I miss something?




(read on for the PENETROL reference...)

It's been a little slow in coming but I did finally finished the "Lil' Red Mower" project. Here's a photo of the overall outcome:



And another shot taken from the side:



What's important to note here is the amount of "orange peel" you see in the BEFORE photos. This was the factory coating, and I did NOT wetsand it down smooth before painting. I gave it a light, dry once-over with 400 grit to give the Rustoleum something to grab onto.

Next up is another set of photos taken straight on (excuse the model, please!). Again, note the amount of peel in the BEFORE photo when making judgements on the AFTER:



To be quite honest, nearing the end of this project, I was not very happy with the amount of orange peel I was seeing, that was until I pulled out the photos of the original and compared the two. Here's yet another taken from the other side, showing a little more in detail the surface reflections:



Okay, last set of photos and then some information and observations. This last set shows the right and left fenders of the mower. The photo on the RIGHT shows the "standard" roller method, while the photo on the LEFT shows the fender as painted with the foam BRUSH instead of the roller:



Now for the important parts:

This is now the second project using the Rustoleum-Roller method and I was hoping to accomplish two things:

1) to see if I've learned enough on the first project and not to repeat the same mistakes (paint too thick, runs, etc)

2) to determine the long term (outdoor) viability of the paint under abusive conditions (never getting washed or waxed, lotsa debris, Florida summer sun and moisture) It is a mower after all.

Just as I was about to get started, the PENETROL issue came up so I decided to give it a try. My initial reaction was that I didn't like it... at all. Ultimately, it layed down and dried just as the mineral spirits dilution did, but it was considerably slower to dry, and more importantly, it was considerably slower to release the tiny bubbles. On a project this small (the largest panel is only 2'x3') it was just too nerve wracking for me to stand and stare at all the little bubbles and to have to wait to roller them out. With the mineral spritis, I was able to give a light puff immediately after spreading the paint and they were gone. With the penetrol, air did not remove them, and it too as many as 15-20 minutes of waiting for the paint to reach that "magic" moment of dryness when it could be light rollered to remove the bubbles without creating new ones. I simply found this very frustrating.

Let's speed things up here:

2 coats - wetsanded with 400
2 more coats - wetsanded again with 400
2 more coats - wetsanded AGAIN with 400!

Here's where I diverged (quite a bit, really) from "the plan", but it might answer quite a few questions that some have been wondering about. I decided I didn't want to spend the required time to do the final wetsanding and buffing. Wetsanding on the mower was not so easy because the original panels were not perfect to begin with, and the mower also got pretty battered during the last two hurricane seasons. I found
myself sanding around high spot after high spot and finally just decided it was not worth the time - I'd learned enough. Anyway...

I decided to just go with one last thin coat and leave it as so, no matter how it came out (bugs, hairs, etc... again, it's a mower. Relax.) Problem was, I was out of the undiluted paint, but still had a jar of the PENETROL mix left. Waste not, want not - if figured it would give me a second chance at working with the PENETROL to see if my opinion changed at all. The short answer to that is... no. Not really. I still found it frustratingly slow, BUT... I think if you had to do a large panel, REALLY large, it might actually be of help in keeping the paint from drying TOO fast - if that is your particular problem.

The other thing I tried was to coat one fender using the foam brush instead of the roller. I had noticed on the foot panels (which had been done with several coats using only the brush) that I was seeing no orange peel at all, so I wondered what it would look like on a panel. The answer to that is... surprisingly, not bad! The paint levels out amazingly well, and although you can see very slight "streaks" in the paint, it is certainly no greater or of more texture than the orange peel effect from the roller. And even more amazing is that the brushed on paint did NOT sag on the panel surface that had an approximate slope of 45 degrees. That being said, I would not feel confident that the same would happen on a true vertical panel (90 degree - door, eg.). That's another experiment for later.

Overall thoughts and observations:
I'm happy with the results. It's not a mirror finish, but then again it wasn't to begin with si it's hard for me to judge just how much of the final orange peel is related to the paint, or to the original surface texture. This issue has been somewhat problematic for me, I see some of the mirror-like finished here on the thread, yet I seem to be getting considerably more orange peel others. I do not think it's an issue of paint thickness, I'm putting it on about as thin as I can get it without it running. OTOH, when I look at the final finish (even in it's current unsanded-unpolished state), it certainly looks no worse than your average $500-$700 single stage paint job - orange peel included.

The last set of questions will be answered over time, as I use and abuse the mower over the coming summer. I'm hopefull that the paint will hold up - red paint in Florida is the first color to fade. Don't ask me why, but it's a fact born out by the countless number of faded red cars around town (silver too... weird, huh?)

I think the next project/experiment will be to get a donor panel (hood, trunk, etc) and work on the "perfect" finish - see if I can get that mirror shine like others have. The difference will be that I will try to start with as smooth a panel as I hope to have in the final results. I'm sure I missed alot in writing this up, but hope it helps answer some questions.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 02:09 PM

As an added note, I found this photo which was taken after the 4th coat, but BERFORE wetsanding. Compare this with the final results (see above) and note just how much the wetsanding knocks down the orange peel.



One final thought (promise):
Seeing the images all together, especially seeing the image above before wetsanding, I really think the results from a more thorough wetsand (400, 800, 1200, 2000) and then one FINAL thin coat might produce some very nice results.

Hmmmm.....
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 02:48 PM

nice work rick, ever think about taking up a fridge and mower restoration service??? seems like you've got the process down pat, and i can tell from your pics that you've got a "feel" for the paint. as for the pentrol stuff, i would stay away from it, the mineral spirits are just fine, and that's what the paint manafacture reccommends. plus there's no tests for how that stuff acts over time, and with mineral spirits; well it's a known good, at least for me. Your results are very nice rick, think about if you took the few next steps like final wetsand with a 1000+ grit paper, and then used the polishing compound with a electric random orbit polisher, it just brings it that much closer to "perfect". you can achieve a "perfect" paint-job with this method; it's all on how much time you put into it. remember the original paint is not any beter, and people allways compare new BC/CC paints to enamels, and there is no comparrison. Oh and rick, the reason why red fades the worst in hot sunny areas is because red pigments are hardest to manafacture synthetically, therefore natural pigments are used and those we all know are prone to break down under UV exposure, causing fade and dis-coloring. The tremclad/rustoleum does contain uv inhibitors so that's not really a huge issue, as long as you keep your car clean and waxed, the paint is as tough if not better than modern paints for durability. case in point, i've had 5 incidents in the last few months that would have made me literally cry if i spent $5000+ on a paint job. incident #1. guy tried to jump me at a drive thru bank teller, i showed him how a 440 charger could peel out over one's feet and cause major pain, and how to properelly eat a quatrer pannel with your face, #2. accidently closed my huge double width garage door (with automatic opener) on the trunk of my car, #3. hit a deer about 35mi/hr, #4. my giant torque wrench with about 6 oil filters fell off the top shelf in my garage right on the hood (great), #5. opened the door right into a motor i had out of another car.

all of these incidents caused almost no damage, nothing a little buff did'nt completely remove, except the #5, where i had to touch up the chip, but that too is un-detectable. so for me this paint rocks.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 02:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

ok guys. i need to know if the rustoleum primer is rollable. or any suggestions are welcome.

it looks like i will have to end up selling my duster because we are moving and its not worth spending the $1,100 to ship it from here to florida. and its definately not cross country worthy to drive. So i would like to get it solid color...primer preferably. I don't want to spend the time and sweat outside doing all the coats and trying to polish a bright color up just to sell it. I'd like to do primer...can it be rolled flat like the other color paints?

What do you guys suggest? I really rather not spray bomb it or anything like that.




Hey GOODY, if you can, find a way to keep that car, you'll need a car thats pretty good on gas and has a/c when you get down here in this hot/muggy/humid florida weather. Besides, when you get down here, rustfree cars like yours cost more money. You guys out in the deserts got it good. Hold on to it if you can.

What part of Fla are you moving to. Im in college in Gainesville, but I keep my car at home in Orlando.

As far as the primer goes, I dont know. Theres been more than one discussed. One was said to be designed for rust, and didnt perform well on good metal. Then there was the spraycan rustoleum primer that a lot of guys have been using with good results. And other guys have said that you can get a primer that you can roller from the auto body stores.




Sorry, can't spend $1100 to ship a $800 car.


bump, anyone else help me out on my primer question?
Posted By: BigTerry

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 02:57 PM

Quote:

I gave up on painting my hood red as I didn't like how the color turned out. I decided to use semi-gloss black instead. I am not getting the results I'm looking for. Can anyone give me some advice on this? Here is a pic:





would these be consider orange peel?? I never done any kind of painting on cars or truck at all I really Like to learn. this system here sound like it should be simple with some practice! thank for a very detail info on this paint system!
Posted By: Anonymous

440 removal out of 76 CB300 - 05/24/06 03:08 PM

Can anyone tell me the procedure to remove a 440 and tranny out of a 76 cb300 motorhome? I have already removed core support and bumper, compressor, linkage,exhaust. Must I jack the van up to clear the boom of the cherry picker. I have no clearance. HELP!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 03:26 PM

Thanks, Martin. You know, I was just outside and happened to notice a brand new Honda SUV parked nearby. I started to look a little closer at the paint finish to judge just how smooth the paint really is on new cars. I gotta tell you, I honestly don't think it was any better (orange peel) than my final mower coat. It got me thinking... I'm gonna take my camera out into the local shopping mall parking lot and take some photos of various manufacturers paint coatings and see about making a side by side comparison. I'll try to get as wide a variety as I can find. I know that in the last few years, auto makers have switched to low VOC paints and maybe that's why we're seeing car finishes looking alot more like they did in the 60's thru 70's an they did in the 80's and 90's?

About the red pigments - you would think red would be the easiest pigment to make as it's one of the very oldest (iron oxide), but I'll accept your explaination. The next logical question would be: Why does Silver seem to be the next in line for paint fading? Again, you would think silver would be one of the easiest pigments to make?
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 03:59 PM

Quote:

Thanks, Martin. You know, I was just outside and happened to notice a brand new Honda SUV parked nearby. I started to look a little closer at the paint finish to judge just how smooth the paint really is on new cars. I gotta tell you, I honestly don't think it was any better (orange peel) than my final mower coat. It got me thinking... I'm gonna take my camera out into the local shopping mall parking lot and take some photos of various manufacturers paint coatings and see about making a side by side comparison. I'll try to get as wide a variety as I can find. I know that in the last few years, auto makers have switched to low VOC paints and maybe that's why we're seeing car finishes looking alot more like they did in the 60's thru 70's an they did in the 80's and 90's?

About the red pigments - you would think red would be the easiest pigment to make as it's one of the very oldest (iron oxide), but I'll accept your explaination. The next logical question would be: Why does Silver seem to be the next in line for paint fading? Again, you would think silver would be one of the easiest pigments to make?




well, every color absorbs different wave lengths of lights, and all paints are not created equal, and use different pigments, it is the pigments used in the paint that determines fade, and silver has alot of pigments, some are more expensive than others and that's why they fade more. but you can see a difference from one manafacturer to another, alot of GM cars have fade and peeling clear coats, like the corsica, ect...and that is just due to using crappy paint. it all depends on how the paint is made, and what the quality of pigments are, and each specific color absorbs a certain wave length of light depending on what pigments are used to make that color, so for example, even white can be bad for fade, like on some Lexus perl white cars, they have bad fade problems because there is a pigment (maybe red/blue/green) who knows , and that is why it fades.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 04:14 PM

Thanks for that Penetrol info Rick. Based on that, I'll probably use the rattlecans under the hood and jambs just to avoid any more stress than needed.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 05:09 PM

Ricklandia, I don't know if is just me, but I can't see any picture in your posts.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 05:24 PM

Same here. Can see the pics.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 05:59 PM

i can't see it either
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 06:31 PM

Quote:

Ricklandia, I don't know if is just me, but I can't see any picture in your posts.




Hmmmm... it appears as though my host provider (Bellsouth) has a bandwidth limit on my "personal webspace", and it's already been exceeded! LOL

I've attached the first of 5 to this message so that you can download them today.

Attached picture 2649819-BA_full.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 06:32 PM

Number 2 of 5

Attached picture 2649820-BA_angle1.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 06:32 PM

Number 3 of 5

Attached picture 2649823-BA_side.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 06:33 PM

Number 4 of 5

Attached picture 2649824-reflections.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 06:33 PM

Number 5 of 5

Attached picture 2649826-Brush-vs-Roller.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 06:36 PM

This attached image is of coat #4, pre-wetsanding (see earlier message for reference text)

Attached picture 2649829-coat-3-d.jpg
Posted By: roe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 07:44 PM

Quote:


Sorry, can't spend $1100 to ship a $800 car.


bump, anyone else help me out on my primer question?




that makes sense, I didn't know how much you paid for it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 09:12 PM

Help!!

I just talked to some lady at Rustoleum. She says they don't even make Gloss Orange in gallons. Furthermore, she was trying to tell me that there is no professional version of the Stops Rust. What the heck!!

Where are you guys buying this stuff? Can I get it online anywhere????
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 09:12 PM

Yet another n00b strikes the board.

I've read through all 42 pages, took me about a week. I think I understand a gret deal of the process, but I still have a question.

Anyone use flat black yet?

I plan on using Rustoleum flat black with oderless mineral spirits. I'm looking for that "Rat Rod" sort of flat satin finish.

I plan on final sanding with 1500 grit (finest I could locate) and polishing with the Turtle Wax polishing compound.

Does anyone know if this will get me the look I'm after?
Like many, this will be my first paint attempt.

Going for something like this color:


Except mine's a 1987 CSX

Thanks for any input!
-Wade
www.jr-ms.com
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 11:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Ricklandia, I don't know if is just me, but I can't see any picture in your posts.




Hmmmm... it appears as though my host provider (Bellsouth) has a bandwidth limit on my "personal webspace", and it's already been exceeded! LOL

I've attached the first of 5 to this message so that you can download them today.





i'd like to see them pic too. use http://imageshack.us/
Posted By: 69chargeryeehaa

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 11:46 PM

Quote:

Yet another n00b strikes the board.

I've read through all 42 pages, took me about a week. I think I understand a gret deal of the process, but I still have a question.

Anyone use flat black yet?

I plan on using Rustoleum flat black with oderless mineral spirits. I'm looking for that "Rat Rod" sort of flat satin finish.

I plan on final sanding with 1500 grit (finest I could locate) and polishing with the Turtle Wax polishing compound.

Does anyone know if this will get me the look I'm after?
Like many, this will be my first paint attempt.

Going for something like this color:


Except mine's a 1987 CSX

Thanks for any input!
-Wade
www.jr-ms.com




well with flat black it's been covered before, but again, it would'nt work, the wetsand and polishing process is to bring a shine, not make it flat, flat paints have flattening agents in them that make them flat, your best bet is to rattle can it, only issue with flat paints is keeping them clean, and no water spots, bird do-do, bug guts all stain the paint.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/24/06 11:53 PM

Quote:


Conner, I don't get that, why on earth would they make a primer that doesn't work with their own paint? Just doesn't make sense to me. Is this from experience or heresay? I'm not saying your wrong, I just don't see the value in such a product as primer is generally accepted as a base for other paint layers. I looked at a can of it about a week ago and don't remember seeing a warning saying anything like "use only with XXXXXX topcoat". Thanks for the warning though, I'll investigate it before proceeding.




Rustoleum has to consumer variety primers: "Rusty Metal Primer" and "Clean Metal Primer."
http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=25&SBL=1
http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp?frm_product_id=26&SBL=1

Both are compatible with their topcoats. However, Rusty Metal Primer should only be used on metal that is rusty. If the metal isn't actively rusting go with the Clean Metal Primer. Using Rusty Metal Primer on clean metal is where you will get problems because the Rusty Metal primer is designed to soak into/bind to rust and will not do so on clean metal.

The condition of the metal, not the topcoat, is the limiting factor here.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 01:45 AM

I got my paint/mineral spirits mixture worked out and have been laying down nice, smooth coats on my hood. I just finished coat number five. I'm concerned, however, because I can still see through the paint to where I sanded through the original paint to bare metal in several spots when I prepped the panel. I think it was Exit who referred to the "mahogany" look. I'm starting to wonder if I'm ever going to reach a uniform color. Maybe I should have primed first to make a nice uniform base. If it weren't for the sanding spots, I could almost call the hood done. Any thoughts? Thanks.
-Ian

Attached picture 2650781-Mustangs070.jpg
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 02:35 AM

Quote:

I got my paint/mineral spirits mixture worked out and have been laying down nice, smooth coats on my hood. I just finished coat number five. I'm concerned, however, because I can still see through the paint to where I sanded through the original paint to bare metal in several spots when I prepped the panel. I think it was Exit who referred to the "mahogany" look. I'm starting to wonder if I'm ever going to reach a uniform color. Maybe I should have primed first to make a nice uniform base. If it weren't for the sanding spots, I could almost call the hood done. Any thoughts? Thanks.
-Ian




Yah I know what you mean. I have 7 coats on now and there's still some see through spots. Maybe 2-3 coats of a base color would have been a good idea, but if you think about it that's near the same # of coats as you could do with whatever color you're using. Might save a coat or two in the end, not sure..
Posted By: Burt

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 03:13 AM

Quote:

Yet another n00b strikes the board.

I've read through all 42 pages, took me about a week. I think I understand a gret deal of the process, but I still have a question.

Anyone use flat black yet?

I plan on using Rustoleum flat black with oderless mineral spirits. I'm looking for that "Rat Rod" sort of flat satin finish.

I plan on final sanding with 1500 grit (finest I could locate) and polishing with the Turtle Wax polishing compound.

Does anyone know if this will get me the look I'm after?
Like many, this will be my first paint attempt.

Going for something like this color:




Go to hotrodders.com here and read about John Deer Blitz Black HotRodders (a few pages shorter than this one
Posted By: roe

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 03:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I got my paint/mineral spirits mixture worked out and have been laying down nice, smooth coats on my hood. I just finished coat number five. I'm concerned, however, because I can still see through the paint to where I sanded through the original paint to bare metal in several spots when I prepped the panel. I think it was Exit who referred to the "mahogany" look. I'm starting to wonder if I'm ever going to reach a uniform color. Maybe I should have primed first to make a nice uniform base. If it weren't for the sanding spots, I could almost call the hood done. Any thoughts? Thanks.
-Ian




Yah I know what you mean. I have 7 coats on now and there's still some see through spots. Maybe 2-3 coats of a base color would have been a good idea, but if you think about it that's near the same # of coats as you could do with whatever color you're using. Might save a coat or two in the end, not sure..




Sounds like certain colors (Yellow, Safety Red) are having the see through problems. If you were to lay down a color for a base coat which would you guys use? From watching some of the car shows I see them do that with Candy Paints. But I've seen different colors used for the basecoats, silver, white, black, etc...Does the different color basecoats give different effects. If so, what changes? What color would you guys use for basecoats?

roe
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 04:07 AM

Quote:


well with flat black it's been covered before, but again, it would'nt work, the wetsand and polishing process is to bring a shine, not make it flat, flat paints have flattening agents in them that make them flat, your best bet is to rattle can it, only issue with flat paints is keeping them clean, and no water spots, bird do-do, bug guts all stain the paint.




I guess maybe I worded it wrong. What I mean to say is can I use this process with flat black? I understand it won't shine obviously, but will it just plain not work? I just want a smooth flat black finish I guess. Does that make sense?

I guess if it's just a bad idea... what about a semi-gloss black? And maybe fine grit it and not polish it? Better idea?

Thanks again!
-Wade
www.jr-ms.com
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 04:09 AM

Quote:

Go to hotrodders.com here and read about John Deer Blitz Black HotRodders (a few pages shorter than this one




Oh jeeez... I can't do another 40 pager!
LMAO!
Thanks for the link!
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 04:27 AM

Quote:

Quote:


well with flat black it's been covered before, but again, it would'nt work, the wetsand and polishing process is to bring a shine, not make it flat, flat paints have flattening agents in them that make them flat, your best bet is to rattle can it, only issue with flat paints is keeping them clean, and no water spots, bird do-do, bug guts all stain the paint.




I guess maybe I worded it wrong. What I mean to say is can I use this process with flat black? I understand it won't shine obviously, but will it just plain not work? I just want a smooth flat black finish I guess. Does that make sense?

I guess if it's just a bad idea... what about a semi-gloss black? And maybe fine grit it and not polish it? Better idea?

Thanks again!
-Wade
www.jr-ms.com




way way back (page 4 or 5 maybe?) there is a guy who painted a roadrunner flat black. I dont recall what sanding he did, but Im pretty sure he rollered it.

edit: here is where to find it:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=%202374463&page=0&vc=1

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=%202374469&page=0&vc=1


there is a pic of it there. It doesn't look very good to me in the sun, but the shade shot looks good..


The hotrodders link has to do with flat black. im not sure if those guys are spraying or rolling, and if they're sanding, but they are using a flat black..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 04:37 AM

Quote:

way way back (page 4 or 5 maybe?) there is a guy who painted a roadrunner flat black. I dont recall what sanding he did, but Im pretty sure he rollered it.

edit: here is where to find it:
#2374463 - Mon Feb 06 2006 06:41 PM

there is a pic of it there. It doesn't look very good to me in the sun, but the shade shot looks good..


The hotrodders link has to do with flat black. im not sure if those guys are spraying or rolling, and if they're sanding, but they are using a flat black..




Yeah I remember that RR (black widow or spider something) but he wanted an orange peel look IIRC. So I don't think he was sanding it.

I'm 9 pages in on the rodders board and they all appear to be shooting it, and having some striping problems with it drying too fast apparently.

I think I'll play with the Rustoleum flat black on my trunk lid this weekend... since I already bought it! I'll post some results in case anyone else is thinking along the same lines as I.

Thanks for the quick reply BTW!
-Wade
www.jr-ms.com
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 04:47 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

ok guys. i need to know if the rustoleum primer is rollable. or any suggestions are welcome.

it looks like i will have to end up selling my duster because we are moving and its not worth spending the $1,100 to ship it from here to florida. and its definately not cross country worthy to drive. So i would like to get it solid color...primer preferably. I don't want to spend the time and sweat outside doing all the coats and trying to polish a bright color up just to sell it. I'd like to do primer...can it be rolled flat like the other color paints?

What do you guys suggest? I really rather not spray bomb it or anything like that.




Hey GOODY, if you can, find a way to keep that car, you'll need a car thats pretty good on gas and has a/c when you get down here in this hot/muggy/humid florida weather. Besides, when you get down here, rustfree cars like yours cost more money. You guys out in the deserts got it good. Hold on to it if you can.

What part of Fla are you moving to. Im in college in Gainesville, but I keep my car at home in Orlando.

As far as the primer goes, I dont know. Theres been more than one discussed. One was said to be designed for rust, and didnt perform well on good metal. Then there was the spraycan rustoleum primer that a lot of guys have been using with good results. And other guys have said that you can get a primer that you can roller from the auto body stores.





bump, anyone else help me out on my primer question?




Last attempt to maybe get a answer on if there is a rollable primer . I just want it uniform color. is there a rollable primer that i can use? and how can i thin it? Thanks
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 05:20 AM

Quote:

Last attempt to maybe get a answer on if there is a rollable primer . I just want it uniform color. is there a rollable primer that i can use? and how can i thin it? Thanks




White paint. Two or three coats.

White pigment gives the best, most solid cover and should give you a solid base.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 05:25 AM

Hey guys...I'm not a Mopar guy (I've got a '56 Chevy...with a 383, hah replete with a nice Mopar 383 Magnum sticker on the air cleaner...I couldn't resist, the sticker was even the right color!) but I saw that ya'll have been looking for a roll-on primer. There are two that I know of (one that I've used). Both will be more money than the paint for sure. Just a fact of life, but they're not expensive.

The first is PPG SX1060. I don't know much about it or how much it costs, but it is a roll-on primer. Knowing PPG it isn't cheap.

The second, and the one I've used is Transtar 6464. Here's a link... I think you can order it online too! http://www.tat-co.com/version2/products_productview.asp?product=6464

It's light grey in color and locally (here in Montana) I pay about $20 for a quart of it (including the activator). I'm not sure if it's moisture-proof (I livei n Montana...it's dry here so I don't care), but you can lay it down on bare metal (no need for an epoxy primer coat below it). I've done my entire front-end with this stuff. Goes on easily, mixes with the activator (4:1 ratio as per directions). I ended up putting three coats of it on my Chevy all in all. I did all my filler work before I laid down primer then block wetsanded the primer with 220 after the first coat, then with 400 after the second and third coats. Came out very flat...I almost considered laving it in primer it looked so good. I started painting after the third primer coat (after sanding with 400 grit). I'm painting the rest of my front-end with tinted Rustoleum from my local Ace Hardware (it's nice being in a small town)...they matched it to what color I wanted...kind of a copper orange color). It's laying down nicely and I'm on my 5th coat. Uniform color with very little orage peel.

Good luck y'all!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 11:44 AM

Quote:

Sounds like certain colors (Yellow, Safety Red) are having the see through problems. If you were to lay down a color for a base coat which would you guys use? From watching some of the car shows I see them do that with Candy Paints. But I've seen different colors used for the basecoats, silver, white, black, etc...Does the different color basecoats give different effects. If so, what changes? What color would you guys use for basecoats?

roe




I haven't had time to experiment yet and don't have a piece ready to experiment on either. However, I'm taking the week of June 5th off from my day job to work on my 46 Jeep. Part of the plan is to weld up the radio-option slots in my 59 Sprite's dash so I can start my experiments with the paint. My plan is to roller on Rusto clean metal primer (dash is one of the few parts without rust on this car), block sand and then lay down a black base coat or two with semi-gloss. Then several more coats of safety red (as many as necessary, polish and follow up with satin black stripes. Hopefully this will give me the look I'm after.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 01:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Last attempt to maybe get a answer on if there is a rollable primer . I just want it uniform color. is there a rollable primer that i can use? and how can i thin it? Thanks




White paint. Two or three coats.

White pigment gives the best, most solid cover and should give you a solid base.




Or if you want something that looks like primer, use their "smoke grey" which looks just like primer color despite the darker color on the label. If you put that on then rough the surface it will appear to be primer. Or just leave it glossy and grey, like a polished primer look..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 03:09 PM

there is rollable primer...you just have to thin out the same and roll it on...ifound that the primer went on better than the paint it self :weird:
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 06:35 PM

Goody - some body shops are using roll on primer now. I don't have any brand names for you, but they are out there. You could probably roll any of them on if you want actually.

Call one of the local body shop supply outfits and see what they say.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 07:50 PM

Hey guys, I posted a couple pics of my lincoln like 10 pages back..lol i lost track of what coat, 6, 7 or 8th caot, anyways i havent wetsanded with fine grit, it started to rain but anyways its turning out great IMO, beats spending hundreds and hundreds on a paint job, but anywas here are some pics, sorry there small, my digi cam is crapping on me

ill get more after the wetsand sometime this weekend, ill get close up ones to, but its about the same as you see in the pics




Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/25/06 09:55 PM

I'm having some problems with the final wetsand. I'm not sure why, but when I wetsand all the orange peel out after the 6th coat, some of the paint will flake off in the corners and also the old paint shows through a little bit in some spots. Does anyone know why it is doing this? I'm thinning the paint correctly, I have done all the steps as told to do them. My final wetsand is with 2000 grit while not putting any pressure on the sandpaper, just lightly rubbing it across the surface. I really don't have any orange peel, it just roller marks. Can anyone help me? Is it something to do with my paint? I'm using the odorless mineral spirits. Please help, this is driving me crazy.

Also, the paint is scratch proof, not put on too thick or anything. I'm out of ideas.

One thing though, I got some 400 and 600 sandpaper from Lowes, and then 800, 1500, and 2000 from Walmart. (3M brand from Walmart, and GatorGrit brand from Lowes) The 800 3M sandpaper feels like the 400 Gatorgrit. Could this be causing it? Thanks
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/26/06 12:25 AM

Jackrabbit:
Welcome. I've used the semi-gloss black and did not care for it. I immediately switched back to gloss. I had terrible problems with runs and I couldn't seem to sand them well enough to completely remove them. See pics in my post just above your original one. GL.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/26/06 02:10 AM

Another MR2 guy coming over from MR2OC and man! This is the thing I've been waiting for to do when summer hits! I have a few questions. I used two test piece first using gloss black. I used my front hood and my side engine lid. I sanded my hood down using 80 grit, then 150 then 220. AFter that I thinned the painted out using paint thinner auntil it is thin like water. I soaked the white roller into the paint and rolled it on. After two coats, I wetsanded using 600 grit, then another 2 coats, wetsanded with 1500, another 2 coats and wetsanded lightly using 1500. I proceeded to polish the hood using the turtle wax but the polish didn't seem to come off when I tried to wipe it off so in order to get rid of all the scratches, I laid another coat onto the hood and waxed it. The surface is very smooth but...this is my result:






My other test piece came out incredible! I didn't sand the piece but I did wiped it down with mineral spirits. Then I used the foam brush and just brushed onto the side engine lid. The paint quality came out incredible after two coats BUT you can see some paint strokes.










What do you guys suggest I do? I'm not using the odorless mineral spirits but the paint thiner that contains mineral spirits. I really don't know what I am doing wrong. Please help!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/26/06 03:05 AM

Quote:

I got my paint/mineral spirits mixture worked out and have been laying down nice, smooth coats on my hood. I just finished coat number five. I'm concerned, however, because I can still see through the paint to where I sanded through the original paint to bare metal in several spots when I prepped the panel. I think it was Exit who referred to the "mahogany" look. I'm starting to wonder if I'm ever going to reach a uniform color. Maybe I should have primed first to make a nice uniform base. If it weren't for the sanding spots, I could almost call the hood done. Any thoughts? Thanks.
-Ian




Well you see, that there is your problem. You are using Country Crock. Maybe switching over to Land O'Lakes will fix this problem?

Actually, I had the same problem you and Exit are having. I mentioned that I was putting on my coats really thin. I was basically squeezing out a lot of the paint before I rolled. After the 3rd coat everything was still visiable benieth. So, I thickened up on the 4th coat and called it a "normal" coat. However, I had a problem- orange peel. Not severe, but enough to compete with a bad OEM job. I would say after I thickened up on the 4th coat things started looking much better. A problem with using a thicker coat is that it doesnt dry as fast. It feels dry to the touch but it will be softer a lot longer than those thin coats. What saved me was the fact that I was painting outside- in the sun. Others have said it was a no-no but in my case I didnt have a choice. A couple times I painted in the shade though or after 6 when the sun was going down- so it wasnt so bad. The metal was warm, etc. I painted my groundfx and spoiler on my patio in the shade and the paint still kind of feels soft and I did 6 layers at the same thickness as the car. When I say it is soft I mean more like a hard soft.. hmm, hope you get the point.

In your case you might have way to much mineral spirits in the paint. I didnt read the rest of the posts yet so not sure if you answered to that yet

I think I have 9 coats on my car and 6 on my groundfx. Paint on the car is super hard .. but comes off easy with an exacto blade.. found that out the hardway .. no fixing that too ...
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/26/06 03:49 AM

Are you using 100% mineral spirits or some paint thinner that contains some mineral spirits? whatever you use whether it's odor or odorless it should be 100% mineral spirits.

you say you soaked the roller then started. that's the problem if you ask me. you shouldn't be putting much paint on each coat. if that surface wasn't flat when you painted it (assuming it was) you would have runs instead of orange peel. Put it so the surface is vertical and try again with much less paint per coat. If you see runs, you're putting it on too thick. Once you see how much you need to put on (which is not much) you can do other surfaces.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/26/06 04:19 AM

Alan, come to my house and we'll work on it, i am doing my brother's SW...its coming out pretty nicely, finally i know what i am doing here...and i had some test pieces, as long as u have enough coating...and wetsanded it throughly that u don't see those dots, if u see dots that means it's not smooth enough, has to be flat even...then polish and it shines very nicely...give me a call man...
and come pick up the scoop!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/26/06 07:34 AM

Quote:

Are you using 100% mineral spirits or some paint thinner that contains some mineral spirits? whatever you use whether it's odor or odorless it should be 100% mineral spirits.

you say you soaked the roller then started. that's the problem if you ask me. you shouldn't be putting much paint on each coat. if that surface wasn't flat when you painted it (assuming it was) you would have runs instead of orange peel. Put it so the surface is vertical and try again with much less paint per coat. If you see runs, you're putting it on too thick. Once you see how much you need to put on (which is not much) you can do other surfaces.




100& mineral spirits? I am using paint thinner that contains mineral spirits. Does it really matter? How does one put paint on the roller then? Do I use the foam roller to brush it onto the roller?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/26/06 07:36 AM

Quote:

Alan, come to my house and we'll work on it, i am doing my brother's SW...its coming out pretty nicely, finally i know what i am doing here...and i had some test pieces, as long as u have enough coating...and wetsanded it throughly that u don't see those dots, if u see dots that means it's not smooth enough, has to be flat even...then polish and it shines very nicely...give me a call man...
and come pick up the scoop!




Perry, can you describe what excatly you did? I'm kinda in the process of doing it right now so I don't raelly wanna drive anywhere far haha I still gotta sand down the old paint so that it is very smooth.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/26/06 02:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Are you using 100% mineral spirits or some paint thinner that contains some mineral spirits? whatever you use whether it's odor or odorless it should be 100% mineral spirits.

you say you soaked the roller then started. that's the problem if you ask me. you shouldn't be putting much paint on each coat. if that surface wasn't flat when you painted it (assuming it was) you would have runs instead of orange peel. Put it so the surface is vertical and try again with much less paint per coat. If you see runs, you're putting it on too thick. Once you see how much you need to put on (which is not much) you can do other surfaces.




100& mineral spirits? I am using paint thinner that contains mineral spirits. Does it really matter? How does one put paint on the roller then? Do I use the foam roller to brush it onto the roller?




I think it does really matter. That paint thinner can contain a bunch of other things that affect how it goes on, how fast it dries, so forth.

When you say you soak the roller that makes me think you are filling it up then taking it to the panel and laying down a nice thick layer of paint, which is what you want to avoid. I've only tried that on a decklid where I was going to quickly be able to spread all that paint around. It looks from your pic that your paint went on too thick and perhaps the thinner you used started drying before the mixture could level out (although it can only level so much if there's too much paint there). So after soaking the roller you would either use ALL that paint to do your area (tougher) or squeeze most of it out and do one area/portion at a time. I usually squeeze most of it out which leaves a nice thin layer that goes on super flat. For a big Dart hood I might go back to the paint tray 5 times..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/26/06 02:51 PM

Quote:

I'm having some problems with the final wetsand. I'm not sure why, but when I wetsand all the orange peel out after the 6th coat, some of the paint will flake off in the corners and also the old paint shows through a little bit in some spots. Does anyone know why it is doing this? I'm thinning the paint correctly, I have done all the steps as told to do them. My final wetsand is with 2000 grit while not putting any pressure on the sandpaper, just lightly rubbing it across the surface. I really don't have any orange peel, it just roller marks. Can anyone help me? Is it something to do with my paint? I'm using the odorless mineral spirits. Please help, this is driving me crazy.

Also, the paint is scratch proof, not put on too thick or anything. I'm out of ideas.

One thing though, I got some 400 and 600 sandpaper from Lowes, and then 800, 1500, and 2000 from Walmart. (3M brand from Walmart, and GatorGrit brand from Lowes) The 800 3M sandpaper feels like the 400 Gatorgrit. Could this be causing it? Thanks




Anyone?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/26/06 03:03 PM

Sounds like you are having adhesion problems. Make sure you are first sanding the surface with enough grit to give it enough bite for the paint to stick to. Other possibilities are contamination on the original surface, or not letting under layers dry properly possibly to due too thick of coats.

Make sure your original surface has been sanded with enough bite, has been cleaned properly with mineral spirits prior and coats are going on as thin as possible.



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FYI, Looks like we hit the thread limit, Charger created a new thread here: Page 44
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Posted By: Anonymous

Re: paint job on a budget!? - 05/26/06 03:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Are you using 100% mineral spirits or some paint thinner that contains some mineral spirits? whatever you use whether it's odor or odorless it should be 100% mineral spirits.

you say you soaked the roller then started. that's the problem if you ask me. you shouldn't be putting much paint on each coat. if that surface wasn't flat when you painted it (assuming it was) you would have runs instead of orange peel. Put it so the surface is vertical and try again with much less paint per coat. If you see runs, you're putting it on too thick. Once you see how much you need to put on (which is not much) you can do other surfaces.




100& mineral spirits? I am using paint thinner that contains mineral spirits. Does it really matter? How does one put paint on the roller then? Do I use the foam roller to brush it onto the roller?




Do not use "Paint Thinner"!

I posted something about this several days ago. Paint thinner is not pure enough and will react with enamel paint. Must be 100% Mineral Spirits. That's your problem.



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