Posted By: 69rrgrabber
K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/04/12 05:42 AM
Any one out there have a good reference for what chassis, dana and other mechanical parts are suppose to be gloss black vs flat or satin, 1969 Charger?
I am ready to paint my K frame and under K frame shield and am having a hard time finding a reference.
There is also a black crossmember that goes behind the grill that bolts to the valvance, should that be flat black?
I have looked for a site or book with paint info on the B-Bodies and have not had much luck.
Thanks,
CAC
Posted By: 69rrgrabber
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/05/12 11:54 AM
Ok, I'm going to guess semi gloss on the k frame and dana, I read somewhere that the metal splash can under the frame is natural
Posted By: flypaper
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/05/12 12:08 PM
gloss on the k frame
not sure about the dana
Posted By: gtx6970
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/05/12 12:09 PM
gloss black dulled down maybe 15-20 % ----- kind of a cross between gloss black and satin black.
basically you just want to take the glass like shine off of them.
Duplicolor gloss back engine enamel is fairly close if you going to use rattle cans( not advisable)
I had a K frame powder coated and I think it came back to glossy/shiny. But the customer likes it so it stays as is.
Posted By: 71rm23
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/05/12 07:20 PM
Had both the K and rear powdered, semi. Looks awesome to me
Posted By: a12rag
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/05/12 08:27 PM
I used the Rust o Leum satin (semi gloss) black . . . turned out great !!! For the k member, blasted it clean, then primed it and THEN painted it ! . . .
Cheers,
Mark
Posted By: 69rrgrabber
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/05/12 08:46 PM
Just bought the Eastwood 2K Extreem Chasis Semi Gloss Black with primer kit. I've heard good stuff about it. I'll post the results.
Still not sure on the color for the metal splash shield that goes under the frame and has the 1/4 rubber piece stapled to it. Found one article for a 71 Duster where the shop left it natural, but can't find a real reference.
How come none of these "Mopar Restoration Guide" books ever give a break down on what to paint what? Guess it varied factory to factory.
Thanks!
CAC
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/05/12 09:27 PM
OK, I know this is the 10th time I've said it but;
- both parts were gloss black from the factory. Semi gloss was a GM thing. That having been said the cheapo factory gloss black wasn't exactly done with a high degree of quality in mind and it is easy to overdo it, using better materials, coverage and methods than the factory did...which is why Bill and others have suggested knocking it back from full gloss.
Dave
Posted By: 1cuda
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/05/12 10:54 PM
i fully agree with the gloss black-but a lot of people look at the black on parts and because that gloss black is 40+ years old with nothing but weathering and being degreased and washed with all sorts it has now turned flat to semi gloss and people are trying to match that as a finish on a restoration. do them gloss but they were not a gloss black like the outside of a black car at sema- the paint was a brown/grey black and not like todays paints so the shine level is not a mirror black.
anyway that`s my
all the best
frank.
Posted By: kentj340
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/06/12 03:26 AM
Definitely a gloss black ring left under the K-frame bolt/washer.
Posted By: LimeliteAero
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/06/12 03:25 PM
Im going to go with the idea that todays paints have more solids and are superior in gloss therefore a full gloss will be more glossy. Theres nothing for us to compare to because unrestored cars will still have 43+ year old paint on the parts.
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/06/12 04:48 PM
I have NOS wheels and NOS rearend housings.
Regardless of what the paint was originally called, by today's standards it is definitely not "gloss" black.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/06/12 07:10 PM
To my eye, the only suspension part that was full gloss was the torsion bars; and they appear to have been dipped.
Posted By: 69rrgrabber
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/07/12 12:36 AM
I changed my order to Gloss Black which is 85% gloss. The semi gloss is 60 - 70% gloss. Its hard to compare apples to oranges as the materials have changed. Even if this is too glossy, after a few years it will be right, till a few years later, when it dulls!
Now if I could just figure out the color for the rest of my parts.......... torsion bars gloss black, Check. Would priming them make the paint too thick and crack the paint as they twist?
Posted By: 1cuda
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/07/12 01:07 AM
the tortion bars were dipped directly over the bare steel-they were then painted with inspection stripes according to what number bar it was. horns were also dipped and you can work out the hanging point quite easily.
all the best
frank.
Posted By: 4406bbl
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/07/12 02:40 PM
PPG black lacquar gets the color close as it is a little grayer than the enamels, shine is about right too, might not be the best choice for durability. I would use black enamel with a little gray and flattening agent added, still shines but not like straight single stage. I used straight PPG single stage black with hardner and it is WAY too bright, but I did not want to use cheap paint. I just can't shoot something dull after all the prep work.
Posted By: gtx6970
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/07/12 05:22 PM
This the best picture I have. This was taken out doors with no flash on a party cloudy day with no flash
This is simple single stage enamel dulled down maybe 20% give or take . ( I just kept playing with it until I was happy with the end result)
And IMO, is very close to the real deal , again In MY Opinion only
Posted By: gtx6970
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/07/12 05:26 PM
Brake booster using the same method.
Picture taken indoors under shop lighting with no flash
Posted By: gtx6970
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/07/12 05:33 PM
This is powder coated gloss black, and IMO is WAY to shiny. BUT the customer liked it so it stays as is.
Posted By: gomangoRTSE
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/09/12 03:30 AM
Let me see if I cant help with this issue, as I have a bit of a background in finishes.
Gloss levels are available in a a wide range of gloss levels. The ranges of gloss are developed by the ASTM and NPCA as standards.
Flat has a gloss range below 3 at a 60 deg meter
Eggshell hass a gloss range between 5 to 10 at a 60 deg meter
Eggshell/Satin/Pearl depending on the brand is 10 to 20 gloss range at a 60 deg meter
Semi-Gloss is 35 to 70 gloss range at a 60deg meter.
Gloss is over 70 gloss range at a 60 deg meter.
To the visual eye there are factors that also effect the gloss, with lighting being the most common factor. Ever notice how a color on a wall seems different depending on the lighting such as lamp lighting, sunlight, the coolness of the bulb, morning or evening light.
What one company calles Eggshell another may call satin. Some Semi glosses run closer 60 degree gloss range and another company may list their semi gloss at closer to 45.
So you have to have a good base as to what is acceptable to you for frame black.
As to preferred finishes for undercarriages, K frames, and other parts I suggest the following options.
I prefer a powder coating personally. Most powder coat mfg such as PPG and others have more than 12 blacks with various sheens. I personally recommend something in a 40-60 gloss range.
1. Dont use a spray can product line. While some are better than others they dont offer the millage needed. Sooner or later you will have a thin spot that salt, and corrosion will find a way thru and spread. This will happen, no doubt about it.
2. Epoxies are a tough 2 component finish with outstanding hardness, abrasion resistance, alkali and acid resistance. Its adhesion is very good and finish is smooth. Its easy to clean and lasts for years under even sever condidtions.
3. Aliphaltic Urethanes are also 2 component finishes and also provide superior chemical and stain resistance, "plus have superior gloss and color retention" even above epoxies. It will have more of a tile like finish. Another advantage is that Urethanes will dry to handle or touch faster than any other HD topcoat. PPG makes a High Build Semi-Gloss Urethane called Pitthane. 95-8300 series that you will find in architectural dealers and stores. It comes with a short filled gallon A component and a pint of B. You can recoat it in 2 hours. Some of us thin the first coat about 5% with thinner or acetone and then full strength in a 2nd coat. It can be sprayed with a .013 to .015 tip when using an airless or if your using a conventional spray Devilbiss gun a 704 or 777 air cap with E tip or needle.
On another note. PPG makes a Urethane called Durethane DTM (direct to metal) this stuff goes on metal without priming or really much cleaning. While its a little too glossy I think for frames, its great for spraying metal when you dont want to prepare it much at all or you dont want to spend time and labor priming, letting it dry and coming back with a topcoat. Bang! just spray it on metal that even has tight adhering rust. Runs $75 to $90 a gallon.
Dont use any latex or Alkyds (oil) on automotive applications. One thing, they cant stand the heat, it will yellow and in time chalk or fade.
Urethanes and Epoxies or used in chemical plant on tanks that have caustic, high acidity, and areas that have heavy foot traffic and frequently cleaned with caustic chemicals.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: K-Frame and Rear End:: Gloss or Flat Black? - 10/12/12 03:42 PM
Maybe this could go in the tech archives to save us typing it out all again.
Dave