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R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE

Posted By: rrunner

R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 05/31/09 02:13 AM

Hi all, new to the street rodder form. In the past week I made a deal for the 56 wagon listed for sale here from Woody, great guy if anyone ever has the chance to deal with him, and would like to know if anyone here has done a RB swap in a 55 or 56? Are there any drop in motor mount brackets and mounts? What oil pan was used, I'm thinking a 70's truck. Also I would like to use a 8 3/4 rear, I see in another post a 68-70 rear was used how close to org width is it?
With any luck I will have this car home in the next 2 weeks, just waiting on the transport co to pick it up. Thanks for any info
Posted By: RodStRace

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 05/31/09 03:44 AM

Welcome over! Top Fuel and never been before? I hope that we can keep the drama to a minimum and make you welcome.

RB swap in a 55-56? I'm sure it has, but haven't read of anyone posting all the info. Is the car currently a V8 or 6? The V8 might help, considering that the usual issues are the narrow compartment and the steering on the earlier flathead six models.
Haven't heard of any drop in mounts, but there is new stuff popping up every month, and lots of little one-man shops that create these things.
Most engine swaps rely on a rear sump oil pan from a truck, but it all depends on the chassis and engine placement. Sorry I can't be more specific, but I just haven't read about one of these. The rear end that I used and others have used in earlier stuff is the 60s B body 8.75.
Here is a good list of widths.
http://www.carnut.com/specs/rear.html

As has been said in other threads, the build is your own, but it does help to keep to a theme and do lots of research and planning before starting.
Posted By: rrunner

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 05/31/09 12:54 PM

Yes t.f., but never have done older stuff. I know I can work out my swap, but just thought I would get a heads up and start collecting parts.
I did forget to post that it is a 277 V-8. I am thinking of going RB for fun or 5.7 F.I. for a driver. Thanks Again
Posted By: RodStRace

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 05/31/09 02:45 PM

To help yourself and all the others that will follow you, could you post a couple shots of the engine compartment and include measurements?
Stuff like crankshaft centerline to crossmember (vertical), engine offset if any, length of current engine from bellhousing to front of radiator, width of engine with exhaust, height, width and thickness of radiator, distance from engine/bellhousing line to firewall, and angles of engine front-to-back and side-to-side, if any.
If there are any tight spots, mention those too.
Posted By: shinnery

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/01/09 05:51 AM

I'm thinking that the 277 is just an early small displacement 318 (poly that is). Does it have the same scalloped valve covers as the 318s up to 67? The initial design of the 318s was rear sump with the oil pump in the pan under the dist. so it would probably use the truck pan on a B or RB engine.
Bryce
Posted By: 4speeds4me

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/01/09 07:49 AM

I THINK you might be able to get away with unbolting the brackets from the early poly and bolting them to the B-engine. I used the poly mounts and brackets on my LA. I know they're a little more closely related, but it just might work. Worth a shot with a dummy block. I believe the B-engine didn't show up until 57 or 58, so I am assuming that the mount/frame configuration changed enough that that would be the simplest solution to the problem.

If you want power brakes, look at an A-body unit. Basically a bolt-on and will get the MC up and out of the way. I know you never asked, but look at www.aajbrakes.com for a reasonably priced disc conversion for the front.

As for the rear, I used a 70-74 E-body unit in mine. Based on the chart located here:

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/axle/17.html

the B-body unit should be about an inch-and-a-half narrower than the E-body unit, which was about ¼" perside wider than the OE unit I pulled out. I'd say either one would be fairly easy, requiring basically only the addition of the OE spring perches, if you want to retain the OE shock mounting setup.
Posted By: Robbins

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/01/09 04:30 PM

Quote:

Hi all, new to the street rodder form. In the past week I made a deal for the 56 wagon listed for sale here from Woody, great guy if anyone ever has the chance to deal with him, and would like to know if anyone here has done a RB swap in a 55 or 56? Are there any drop in motor mount brackets and mounts? What oil pan was used, I'm thinking a 70's truck. Also I would like to use a 8 3/4 rear, I see in another post a 68-70 rear was used how close to org width is it?
With any luck I will have this car home in the next 2 weeks, just waiting on the transport co to pick it up. Thanks for any info



I would of loved to of bought that. Congrats! I was wanting to put my 392 Hemi it that.
Posted By: rrunner

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/01/09 09:59 PM

Quote:

I would of loved to of bought that. Congrats! I was wanting to put my 392 Hemi it that.


Thanks, I am looking foward to this project although it might be a little bit before I get into it all the way. When it gets here I plan on getting the surface rust off and giving a coat of por-15 as the body seems very solid. If the 277 turns over I may just see if I can get it running for now so it will move around on it's own. At this point I am leaning to the RB route, just seem like a lot of fun. Here's a pic for those of you who haven't seen it.

Attached picture 5266333-5141813-56plym-2.jpg
Posted By: rrunner

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/01/09 10:02 PM

Pic of the back

Attached picture 5266341-56plymreardown.JPG
Posted By: RodStRace

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/01/09 11:01 PM

Looks like a great project.

Before you slap POR on it, read this to get rid of the rust.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/body/hrdp_0901_rust_removal_guide/index.html
Posted By: rrunner

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/02/09 02:33 AM

Quote:

I'm thinking that the 277 is just an early small displacement 318 (poly that is). Does it have the same scalloped valve covers as the 318s up to 67? The initial design of the 318s was rear sump with the oil pump in the pan under the dist. so it would probably use the truck pan on a B or RB engine.
Bryce


Yes 277 is a poly motor. Anybody need one?

Attached picture 5267154-56plym277poly-2.JPG
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/02/09 03:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm thinking that the 277 is just an early small displacement 318 (poly that is). Does it have the same scalloped valve covers as the 318s up to 67? The initial design of the 318s was rear sump with the oil pump in the pan under the dist. so it would probably use the truck pan on a B or RB engine.
Bryce


Yes 277 is a poly motor. Anybody need one?



Just saying it's a poly isn't quite enough to identify it. Dodge and Chrysler poly engines of the fifties were were completely different engines than the Plymouth poly introduced in the 1956 model year.

But yeah, the 1956 Plymouth 277 poly is a small bore, short stroke version of the 318 poly. Other variations of the Plymouth poly were 301, 303, 313, and 326.

Plymouth poly's were used exclusively in Plymouths (at least in the US, and in cars) until 1959, when Dodge got a one-year-only 326 version. From 1960 on, the 318 poly was just the corporate small V-8 until it was superseded by the LA wedge small V-8's.
Posted By: Robbins

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/02/09 06:10 PM

Killer, Ya if that has the small block timing cover then you could put a stroker crank in it and the stock two four intake on it from the 318. Make it fairly stock.....sleeper look or a weiand four barrel intake and the stroker crank. I bet the cylinders are thick in that block too......it could go to a four in. bore. Of course you'd want to sonic check for that..........but it would be cool.
Posted By: rrunner

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/02/09 11:25 PM

Quote:

Killer, Ya if that has the small block timing cover then you could put a stroker crank in it and the stock two four intake on it from the 318. Make it fairly stock.....sleeper look or a weiand four barrel intake and the stroker crank. I bet the cylinders are thick in that block too......it could go to a four in. bore. Of course you'd want to sonic check for that..........but it would be cool.

Or you could loan me that 392
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/03/09 02:31 PM

Quote:

Killer, Ya if that has the small block timing cover then you could put a stroker crank in it and the stock two four intake on it from the 318. Make it fairly stock.....sleeper look or a weiand four barrel intake and the stroker crank. I bet the cylinders are thick in that block too......it could go to a four in. bore. Of course you'd want to sonic check for that..........but it would be cool.



Bore on a 277 is only 3.75" - it probably does have thick cylinder walls, but I'd be real surprised if it would bore a full quarter of an inch.

On the other hand, a 62-5 318 poly with torqueflite would pretty much bolt in and, using the later shift cable, you could even hook the pushbutton torqueflite up to the original pushbutton shifter - you wouldn't have a button for low, but otherwise it should work OK. With a .090 overbore and a 4 inch stroker crank, you'd have a 402 poly that would run pretty strong.
Posted By: Robbins

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/03/09 04:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Killer, Ya if that has the small block timing cover then you could put a stroker crank in it and the stock two four intake on it from the 318. Make it fairly stock.....sleeper look or a weiand four barrel intake and the stroker crank. I bet the cylinders are thick in that block too......it could go to a four in. bore. Of course you'd want to sonic check for that..........but it would be cool.



Bore on a 277 is only 3.75" - it probably does have thick cylinder walls, but I'd be real surprised if it would bore a full quarter of an inch.

On the other hand, a 62-5 318 poly with torqueflite would pretty much bolt in and, using the later shift cable, you could even hook the pushbutton torqueflite up to the original pushbutton shifter - you wouldn't have a button for low, but otherwise it should work OK. With a .090 overbore and a 4 inch stroker crank, you'd have a 402 poly that would run pretty strong.


Ya, that's why I said sonic check......but he got the idea I think of making the stock motor or stock looking motor style into monster.

If it's the other poly motors then he could make a Hemi motor out of those with the right parts...no?
Posted By: rrunner

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/03/09 08:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Killer, Ya if that has the small block timing cover then you could put a stroker crank in it and the stock two four intake on it from the 318. Make it fairly stock.....sleeper look or a weiand four barrel intake and the stroker crank. I bet the cylinders are thick in that block too......it could go to a four in. bore. Of course you'd want to sonic check for that..........but it would be cool.



Bore on a 277 is only 3.75" - it probably does have thick cylinder walls, but I'd be real surprised if it would bore a full quarter of an inch.

On the other hand, a 62-5 318 poly with torqueflite would pretty much bolt in and, using the later shift cable, you could even hook the pushbutton torqueflite up to the original pushbutton shifter - you wouldn't have a button for low, but otherwise it should work OK. With a .090 overbore and a 4 inch stroker crank, you'd have a 402 poly that would run pretty strong.


Ya, that's why I said sonic check......but he got the idea I think of making the stock motor or stock looking motor style into monster.

If it's the other poly motors then he could make a Hemi motor out of those with the right parts...no?

Posted By: migsBIG

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/10/09 09:16 AM

I believe mrbelvedreII (larry?) was at bcaonfest with his 56' plymouth and it has stock suspension, 383 and auto in it.

Posted By: jedrattle

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/11/09 03:02 PM

I know it's a dodge but just an idea how cool these wagon things can be. It's a friend of mine's car. He is running a 360/auto and 3:00 geared 9in rear. It gets about 16mpg running 70mph with the A/C on!!


Posted By: MrBelvedere2

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/12/09 04:00 AM

Yes that is my blue 56 Plymouth Belvedere, it has a 383 in it, still mated to the powerflite, got questions? ask away!
Posted By: rrunner

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/12/09 01:33 PM

Quote:

Yes that is my blue 56 Plymouth Belvedere, it has a 383 in it, still mated to the powerflite, got questions? ask away!

First off, do you have pic's you can post of the engine bay? What motor mount brackets and mounts did you use? How did you mate it to the powerflight, that's a small block pattern correct? I plan on a 727 in my swap, but very interested in the block & frame mounting. Thanks
Posted By: moposcar

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/13/09 03:36 AM

I have put a 383 in my 56 Coronet, but then I went with a mustang II front end.

Definitely used the 70's truck oil pan. Mine was from a 4X4 for a rear sump. I built my own mounts and actually just used the rubber cushions from a late 60's big block and built up the lower mounts on the cross frame (fat man fab frame).

I have a 727 in mine and was acutally able to use the stock crossmember for the 56 Coronet. I had to weld on a mounting bracket from another b body (just the part that holds the transmission mount) onto the existing crossmember (with a few minor cuts).

With powerbrakes I had to move the master cylinder up 5", but probably wouldn't have had to do it if I had left the old brake system in it.
Posted By: rrunner

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/15/09 01:14 AM

Thanks MOPO, what rear are you running?
What happened to MR.B?
Posted By: MrBelvedere2

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/19/09 05:23 AM

sorry been super busy with work lately to stop in, I will get some time soon and answer your Q's... sorry!
Posted By: moposcar

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/21/09 01:23 AM

Sorry I haven't replied before....my wife just had our first little child.

Anyways, I put a 8 3/4 out of a 69 Coronet in it. I think they run about a 1/2" narrower on each side is all, but that seemed to be enough to give clearance for the tires and rims that were on it. I have also noticed there is quite a lip on the inside fender well. I may take a die grinder to that and get another 1/4" or so for room.

I just had to relocate the spring perches for the rear in it. I used the ones off the 56 rear.

Hope that helps.
Posted By: MrBelvedere2

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/21/09 06:47 AM

ok well first off, I bought the car like it is and somebody did the swap in the early 70's. They used some very early motor mounts called "floating power" motor mounts, from what research i've done they were in imperial and chryslers, they bolt right up to the stock K member. I would like to keep mine stock and not put a mustang II front clip on it so that works out for me. I have a rear end out of a 68 charger that's waiting to go in.

The powerflite mating up is weird indeed, from what I have been told only the early big block (4 bolt valve covers) will mate up to a powerflite and this one seems to be proof of that! and so far the powerflite holds up nicely to the big block and everything!

I am saving up to build a 440 and 727 to put in the car, the powerflite revs pretty high on the freeway.

there is another guy on here named dynamite, he put a 440 and 727 in his 56 belvedere, but he used a 1980's chrysler 5th ave. front clip and steering column, says it went right in with very little fabbing.

I have pictures i need to upload them.
Posted By: MrBelvedere2

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/21/09 06:50 AM

here's an engine bay picture for you.

Attached picture 5305860-2009-03-25014.JPG
Posted By: MrBelvedere2

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/21/09 06:51 AM

and another one, as you can see the valve cover comes very close to the heater box, but it works.

Attached picture 5305861-2009-03-25016.JPG
Posted By: MrBelvedere2

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/21/09 06:52 AM

and one of the other side.

Attached picture 5305862-2009-03-25015.JPG
Posted By: rrunner

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/21/09 12:30 PM

Quote:

....my wife just had our first little child.


Congratulation
And thanks for the info Mopo and MrB
Posted By: 4speeds4me

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/21/09 06:18 PM

Quote:

and one of the other side.



I'd drop the single pot master cylinder. If you're NOT going to do a disc conversion from AAJ Brakes or someone similar, then at least put a dual reservoir drum brake MC on there. It's a bolt-in and well worth the piece of mind.
Posted By: MrBelvedere2

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 06/23/09 01:03 AM

Yes after the mopar show on june 27th in sacramento, it's going down for a Full on AAJ disc brake conversion including dual pot master cylinder, thanks for the heads up...just a waiting game now....
Posted By: moparmetal

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 05/26/10 03:09 AM

If anyone has done the wide block 318/402 stroker motor w/ 727 in a 56 plymouth, let me know. I have a 2dr hardtop that had been in storage since 1978. Once my 65 Coronet project is good to go, this is next on the list. I was going to put a 383/727 combo in it, but I just picked up a poly 318 dual quad intake, and I thought that would be way too cool. I found a poly 318 out of a 63 pickup that was suppose to be a runner. I thought maybe I'd get the 402 stroker kit, and do it up. Anybody have any thoughts on it?
Posted By: dOoC

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 05/26/10 04:08 AM

56 Belvedere .... brings back memories

My first HP car. Bought it from a Bud .... a majorly tweaked streeter 392 Hemi .. stock trans and converter with a 2.9 8 3/4.

NOT MUCH outa-the-gate ... but it ran like-a-bear UPstairs.

HAD to sell it when I got drafted.
Posted By: fstfish66

Re: R B motor & rear in 56 Plymouth-NEW HERE - 05/26/10 12:57 PM

Quote:

Yes after the mopar show on june 27th in sacramento, it's going down for a Full on AAJ disc brake conversion including dual pot master cylinder, thanks for the heads up...just a waiting game now....



ide like to see some pics of that blue 56 please,,,
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