1938 coupe need help

Posted By: Anonymous

1938 coupe need help - 04/28/09 03:04 AM

I just got into a 1938 coupe project and did not konw what I was getting into. need help on finding information about building car and repairing issues with car. Car was a quick purchase and now as I have time to look over I have found many many many issues with the car. motor mounts, trans issues, and drive shaft issues.

bigges issues is steering and bad vibration when accelerating.

steering system- 5 inch drop with disk brakes but only turn 1/4 of way to the left and full movement to right. steering colum hits exhaust manifold. etc.

bad vibration when accelerating or letting off of the gas.

car has a 350 engine with 400 turbo trans and factory rear end.

Wanting to restore and turn into a great project, first of many mopar projects .

Attached picture 5192392-IMG00187-20090426-1934.jpg

Attached picture 5192392-IMG00187-20090426-1934.jpg

Posted By: bigdad

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/28/09 03:25 AM

Howdy ..welcome to the site !

Must have some type of Mustang 2 front stuff on it huh ?

If a hack did it(sounds like), no easy fix..

sad but true

Posted By: bigdad

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/28/09 03:27 AM

The vibration could be drive shaft bent
or maybe its not phased ..

Could have a bent wheel, axle

I'd look there for those items

Posted By: Mopar Ron

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/28/09 03:34 AM

Quote:

bigges issues is steering and bad vibration when accelerating.

steering system- 5 inch drop with disk brakes but only turn 1/4 of way to the left and full movement to right. steering colum hits exhaust manifold. etc.

bad vibration when accelerating or letting off of the gas.

car has a 350 engine with 400 turbo trans and factory rear end.

Wanting to restore and turn into a great project, first of many mopar projects .

well I can see some of the problems, it has a 350 and turbo 400 they belong in a chevy not a mopar

Personally I like a mustang II style frontend for a good ride and braking with rack and pinion steering.

a axle can work OK if everything is put together right but it sounds like yours has some spring and steering box issues as you say it only turns 1/4 of the way to the left.

I would at least change the column and steering box to something newer and maybe to a cross steer.

I would also change the engine and trans to a mopar drive train a "B" body 8 3/4 rearend fits nice in these cars

here is what I recommend" if you have the $$$$$$

a mustang frontend with 5 lug rotors and power rack and pinion.
a 318 or 360 with a 727 trans.
a B body rear end with like 3.23-3.55 gears.

that would make a great driver car.

Ron....

Posted By: RodStRace

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/28/09 03:46 AM

hello!
Guy buys a primered, incomplete running rod and has issues. Sounds like he doesn't have the bucks to do a complete rebuild all at once.

First, the steering issue means you shouldn't even drive it on the streets. Let us know if it's a steering box with linkage or a rack and pinion setup. Pictures would be nice.

Next, inspect every inch of the frame, drivetrain, brake system and wiring. Look at the welds, the way things are put together and for any loose, leaking cut up or rusty parts. It sounds like someone didn't have a level of workmanship that you should trust your life with.
We can help, just take it a step at a time.

Posted By: Mopar Ron

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/28/09 04:05 AM

I agree with you John, I don't know he has the $$$$ to rebuild the whole car at once, I just wanted to give him my opinion on what I think would make a nice car.

and making it mopar powered would be one of my top priority's after I got the frontend fixed to steer and stop right

Ron...

Posted By: 4speeds4me

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/28/09 04:51 AM

I'd bet $ that the vibration is driveshaft related (as mentioned) or pinion angle. Sounds like the previous "builder" didn't necessarily take a lot of time to make things right. Doesn't sound like anything a bit of hard work won't cure, and will be a good learning curve.

I'll add my vote to the motion for replacing the 350/400 combo with a Mopar driveline of some sort...

Posted By: RodStRace

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/28/09 02:22 PM

Ron, I think you know my feelings on Mopars in Mopars.

Bryce, post more pictures!

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/29/09 03:02 AM

Thanks I know I will have alot of questions and appreciate all the feed back and help.

just pulled motor trans out of the car tonight, putting out for sale. no need to keep a chevy motor in the car, going to pull the body and other items Thursday night so i can see what I am up against. Alot of my friends are chevy guys and its the same car and same items they do to each of them. had to get something different that has some class to it. I might be over my head alot but i am hoping this will turn into a great project. $$$ is no option but I have told myself that I am going to do the car myself. the more I look and find It looks like a very bad hack job. the guy who started really left me with alot of work.

Posted By: bigdad

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/29/09 03:05 AM

Post some pics ..

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/29/09 03:07 AM

more pictures

Attached picture 5194611-IMG00194-20090428-2024.jpg

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/29/09 03:08 AM

picture

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/29/09 03:10 AM

interior

Attached picture 5194622-6573187930224-1938-DODGE-BUSINESS-COUPE-HOTRODRATROD.jpg

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/29/09 03:10 AM

pic

Attached picture 5194625-6337428481673-1938-DODGE-BUSINESS-COUPE-HOTRODRATROD.jpg

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/29/09 03:13 AM

Attached picture 5194638-IMG00189-20090426-1934.jpg

Posted By: Mopar Ron

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/29/09 03:24 AM

can you get some Clear detailed pics of the frontend and steering before you pull it apart???

do you have plans to change the frontend or are you going to stay with the axle?

also are you planing to change out the rear end? I would.....

I have allways liked this 36 ply coupe, its pro streeted with a 340 6 pack

just to give you some incentive

Ron...

and heres a cool 38:

Posted By: 4speeds4me

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/29/09 03:25 AM

Look at this thread for some pics on an F/M/J install:

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=1#Post5021197

Also, it's not likely as bad as all that. By the looks of things, if you have to you could probably chop the frame at the firewall and slide an early Dakota setup right in between the rails. A couple hundred buck and a few hours and you won't be feeling like you're dealing with a bad hack job anymore. If the current frontend stuff IS MII, you can likely flog it for a few bucks as well.

Posted By: RodStRace

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/29/09 03:57 AM

Raw material, to be sure!
Looks like a dropped axle on parallel leaf springs in front. Doubt that has a rack and pinion, but you never know!
The steering column looks like an 80s Chevy, probably the same donor that gave the engine/trans. Those columns should just keep spinning in either direction, so the issue is probably the box or linkage. Normally on a rear steer box, the box itself has internal stops. You could disconnect the linkage and turn the box both ways to find the center point and check that with where it is when the linkage is connected and the wheels straight ahead.
However, if you are going to change stuff, the main things to remember before tearing it apart is where the sheetmetal attaches, what the wheelbase and track are, and what you want the final ride height to be. Figure all that out before cutting!
Full frame swaps are a lot more work than you would think, so that leaves using the current frame rails with something attached, or a subframe graft.
Popular stuff is Mustang II based (examples only)
http://www.streetrodengineering.com/Products/mustangllifskits.htm
and
http://www.progressiveautomotive.com/street.htm
Others include Pacer, Volare, vette, jaguar, and any other OE that may fit.

Have you read about LAWFISH's project? It ought to give you lots to consider..
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=1#Post5088072

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 04/30/09 01:31 AM

Looks like the stock front axle. If so the metal bushings in the spring could be all wore out, they are supposed to be grease regularly. Also, king pin bushings could be shot too, again they are metal and supposed to get greased often.

Somewhere I have the FSM for a 38 Plymouth, used to own one.

Steve

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/01/09 02:54 AM

starting going over the car today since the motor and trans are out. has a 5inch drop axle with parrelle leaf springs. it appears the steering system along with the engine and trans came out of a chevy van... where do people get ideas for taking items from a van to make project. the master cylinder for the brakes also came out of the van. steering colum is sto short and does not connect properly and the steering box it at a very bad angle. looks like the steering system is not set up at all. the location and set up alonly allow the steering to turn to the right and I get 1/4 of the movement to the left. I am going to take some more pictures on Friday. Motor mounts and other items are not mounted properly either. right side mount is welded 1/2 inch lower than left side. Drive shaft is home made and welded in the middle. and way out of round. Found my vibration when driving. going to michigan to look at a drive tran, engine and trans. found on-line not a hemi but getting back to the mopar drive tran.

will keep you posted.

Posted By: Mopar Ron

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/01/09 04:22 AM

welded drivshaft in the middle, YES that is your vibration

some people should learn how to do things right, not just do whatever they think might work

good luck on the new engine purchase

what are your plans for the frontend and brakes?

hope you dont get discouraged with your project,
there are some good guys here that will help you through the issues the last owner made for you.
just ask and we will try to keep things moving for you

Ron....

Posted By: bigdad

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/02/09 12:56 PM

Quote:

starting going over the car today since the motor and trans are out. has a 5inch drop axle with parrelle leaf springs. it appears the steering system along with the engine and trans came out of a chevy van... where do people get ideas for taking items from a van to make project. the master cylinder for the brakes also came out of the van. steering colum is sto short and does not connect properly and the steering box it at a very bad angle. looks like the steering system is not set up at all. the location and set up alonly allow the steering to turn to the right and I get 1/4 of the movement to the left. I am going to take some more pictures on Friday. Motor mounts and other items are not mounted properly either. right side mount is welded 1/2 inch lower than left side. Drive shaft is home made and welded in the middle. and way out of round. Found my vibration when driving. going to michigan to look at a drive tran, engine and trans. found on-line not a hemi but getting back to the mopar drive tran.

will keep you posted.

Drive shaft is home made and welded in the middle. and way out of round

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/06/09 02:27 AM

picture of front end .

Attached picture 5210773-IMG00200-20090501-1838.jpg

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/06/09 02:44 AM

have a questions on set up of the steering system. I would prefer to find a good donor car/truck for the rack and steering colum but was wondering if any one had any advice. I removed the current steering colum from the car and want to start hunting down the other times. I am going to keep the 5 in drop with the disc brake set up that is currently on the car. Also question on the steering colum and the exhaust on the drivers side. what options do I have for the exhaust etc. I am still waiting on the engine so am unable to mock everything up to see what and how much room I have. I konw there wont bee much.

Posted By: Mopar Ron

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/06/09 03:28 AM

I have to admit that I have not done to much with tube axles in about 20 years, all the vehicles I have built have had independent front ends. so most of my knowledge on axles is pretty old, but having the rack mounted to the axle was a big no no. as the axle moves up and down the steering shaft would have to have some kind of movement or things will bind or break.

I would look at the way the front springs are mounted to make sure that the axle is not moving around to much.

I would go with something like a vega box and go with a cross steer setup

like this:

Posted By: RodStRace

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/06/09 03:35 AM

That rack on the axle looks pretty bad to me. I know it's been done, but that install is not pretty. It looks like there is a big plate welded to the axle for the mount. See if that can be repaired or removed and re-engineered.
The near shock mount looks like a universal bracket that has been mounted upside down and not even centered on the frame, and is mounted off to the side, rather than right in the middle (double shear).
I'd suggest measuring the frame for straightness before pulling any more off. Check where the axle centerline is too.

Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/07/09 03:23 AM

That's a heckuva cool lookin coupe project!

I would take a long hard look at the front end, unless you want to keep it badly for the LOOK, there are quite a few drawbacks... the rack with the straight front axle I've never seen to be honest.

I love the shape of the car. Keep on posting, and welcome to MoParts!

Posted By: moparx

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/08/09 12:20 AM

a few [?] years ago, i toyed with the idea of using a rack with a straight axle. as has been stated, you must use some kind of "slide" coupling with a rack attached to the axle because as the axle moves over bumps, the column attaching rod must move[shorten/lengthen] or parts will bind/break. "posies" built a rod using such a setup, but i have looked for such a sliding joint and the ones i have seen didn't appear to be strong enough for the intended task. as for the rack attachment to the axle, i could do a much better [stronger and better looking] mount than just welding a flat plate to the axle.

Posted By: 36PLYM

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/08/09 12:47 AM

I used the original straight axle, disc brake kit from Plydo. Mono leaf springs from Butch's Rod Shop. I also have rack and pinion but is not attached to the axle, the unit is from Unisteer. I had a bracket made to adapt to the Mopar frame. It still drives like a straight axle but I have no problems with the set up.

Posted By: Mopar Ron

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/08/09 01:02 AM

the unisteer is a nice way to go but not very cheap. Ron..

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail...mp;autoview=sku

Posted By: moparx

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/08/09 01:23 AM

ron, just out of curiosity, have you ever seen one of these ? would it be possible to take a common M2 rack & remove the dr. side inner tyerod assembly then fab an extender[for lack of a better word] for the pass. side rod assembly ? of course the whole deal would have to have a custom mount fabbed.

Posted By: Mopar Ron

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/08/09 01:28 AM

Quote:

ron, just out of curiosity, have you ever seen one of these ? would it be possible to take a common M2 rack & remove the dr. side inner tyerod assembly then fab an extender[for lack of a better word] for the pass. side rod assembly ? of course the whole deal would have to have a custom mount fabbed.

no i haven't seen one in person but I had the same thoughts

Ron...

Posted By: poorboy

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/08/09 01:58 AM

Thinking out loud here.

Why couldn't a guy take a Cavilere rack and mount it to the frame, then run the tie rod (for better lack of the correct term) from the center of the rack to the right side only then set the rest up like a standard cross steer setup? The center mount inner rod connections would make for a longer rod then a MII that comes out the end. A guy could set the rack more to the left side to better match up with the column and a longer right side "tie rod" ran to to reduce the bump steer even more. Wouldn't think it would make a difference to the rack if it only ran a tie rod to one side and nothing to the other side.

Now, someone tell me how bad my mind is working tonight so I don't go out and do something stupid.

Gene

Posted By: moparx

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/08/09 02:01 AM

gee.....three guys thinking the same thoughts....

does that mean "great minds think alike" ?

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/22/09 02:30 AM

Does anyone sell full kit that I can purchase to set up the steering? Or do I have to piece each items together? I would like to kep the drop axle in the front I like how it or do I need to go with a mustang II front end etc. does anyone have a set up that they would sell??? let me konw

Posted By: fstfish66

Re: 1938 coupe need help - 05/22/09 12:46 PM

flaming river may have every thing you need, just wont be in aa package,,marked for a specific year,, but they may be able to help you or call fat man fab in mint hill n carolna