'49 Dodge engine swap

Early hemi in there replacing the 6 would be awesome. Pics would be awesome too.

Pics will be forthcoming, as soon as the block of ice encasing the garage thaws! LOL! I'm chomping at the bit myself! He threw in the good Fluid Drive trans he took out of it, as well as a ton of other extra parts.( However, I don't know what he put IN it for a tranny, I haven't been under it) I don't want to use anything on this car that wasn't around in 1955 or '56. Like I said, the whole car was done in the mid to late 80's and has been beautifully maintained up until the last 2 or 3 years, the amount of time it's been sitting undriven. What would this kind of swap entail? What trans to use, motor mounts /adapters, suspension... I'm still trying to find out what's available out there that ISN'T muscle car related....I haven't put a car together in about 20 years, and even then, none of them were mods....just stock restos. However, having both the car AND a finished motor practically dropped in my lap for next to nothing, Fate isn't speaking to me, it's SCREAMING at me!

Lurk over at the P15 D24 forum and the Imperial club forum.Both will have info you need.

IMHO, I would not bother with the swap unless you gotta be in the garage to be happy. The 331 is a better motor, but it's still pulling 3500-4000 pounds of 6 volts positive ground metal. Either keep the car close to stock and enjoy, OR build something lightweight for the small cube hemi.

If you get into a swap, it starts into mission creep. Better brakes for the idiots out there and the increased power. Might as well convert to 12V. Better rear axle for the extra power. Might as well go with studs and lug nuts by now. The hemi was single exhaust and the chassis is a challenge to put duals into, but I gotta hear that hemi. The stock manual trans and the fluid drive are old tech. Might as well adapt a 727 or even better, a 518. Tha means a new driveshaft to go from turnnions to U joints.
At this point, you might as well get a 89-03 dodge van with V8 magnum and auto as a donor and forget the early hemi. Or move up to a 3rd gen hemi donor.

Early hemis are cool; I love 'em. But they are big, heavy and under-powered for the effort unless hopped up and installed in something light.

A 52 331 will have the extended bell housing cast into the engine block. That will put a limit as to what transmission you can use. You will probably be ahead of the game to have the trans that is now attached to the Hemi rebuilt or replaced with another like it in better condition. A 52 331 Hemi in a stock rebuilt condition makes 180 HP at 4200 rpm. That is less HP then the currently available V6 engines, but is 77 HP more then the 49's original flathead 6. How much more HP your supped up flathead 6 makes might surprise you. With having a modified flathead 6, I'm not sure a 52 Hemi will be much of a step up, considering the effort involved it getting it there. A 3 carb flathead 6 is almost as impressive as an old Hemi under the hood.
At minimum, to change the flathead 6 to the Hemi, your looking at: motor mounts, exhaust, wiring modification, inner fender modifications, a transmission for the Hemi, possibly a driveshaft, and a lot of work. The process will involve removing the hood, radiator, inner fenders, pulling off the front sheet metal, removing the flathead 6 and its transmission, modifying the frame to adapt the new Hemi motor mounts, fitting the Hemi and its trans, modifying the wiring, remounting the front sheet metal, installing a radiator capable of cooling the Hemi, modifying and reinstalling the inner fenders to give side clearance for the Hemi, and having an exhaust system made for the Hemi. I'm sure I missed something, and any time you speak Hemi, the price of anything doubles, even the old low power versions.

The flathead 6 motors were pretty good motors that were capable of moving the cars along quite well. They were not race cars, but not dead dogs either. The fluid drive transmission flat killed the power from them, and the rear gearing turned them at pretty high rpm at highway speeds. There are several modern automatic transmissions that can be installed behind the flathead 6 that will perform well, probably the reason the guy you got the car from was adding an OD transmission. I would that the one you have rebuilt or replace it with another in better condition. You will have a nice cruiser that will be a fun family ride.

As far as the other upgrades mentioned above, they do tend to happen. I would suggest an upgrade to the 12 volt system though. Gene

The mods you are talking about are pretty much completely out of the question, completely undermining my mission of building a rod that a high school kid would have built out of his Dad's old family car circa 1955 - '56. My father's first car in H.S. in 1957 was a '51 Hudson Hornet Hollywood Hardtop - 308 C.I. 6, twin H power, GM Hydramatic transmission...He claimed to be darn near untouchable ....I want old school with the Dodge.

I guess I should leave well enough alone, then. It has already been converted to 12v, the head was milled,hot cam installed the bottom end was gone through,3 carbs, a header split into dual exhaust.He already has it old school rodded, but I just thought an old Hemi under the hood would be really cool and a little more powerful.... I'm not looking to completely tear down an already beautiful car for kicks, though....

Why don't you try changing the gearing since it seems like the flat head is modded a bit. Get the transmission's overdrive fixed and swap the gears in the rear end. Maybe try to upgrade the brakes to better stop the vehicle. Reading some of the comments, it seems like the Hemi would make the '49 quite top heavy.

the overdrive swap - is it a stick or automatic ? or did i miss something ?

It is a Fluid Drive car. He bought an O.D. transmission for it, because it would scream going down the thruway - It has something like 4.11's in the rear end. He didn't want to change the gearing, because the acceleration would suffer with the 6, so he bought the transmission which was claimed to have been rebuilt. There is no reverse for some reason though. He got sick and the car has sat ever since. I bought the car 2 weeks ago, and at this point, only possess the paperwork. With the nasty winter we've been having, the guy's 2nd garage where the car is got plowed in. Getting the car out isn't happening right now.With temps in the negative numbers, The car is there until the spring thaw. I didn't really get too thorough with it when I bought it, but cosmetically the car is beautiful, having been completely redone in the mid to late 80's. The old guy I bought it from had a stroke a few years ago, and he is difficult to understand at times.

Yeah... after reading poorboy's post, I think I'll leave well enough alone. Tearing down a perfectly beautiful car just because I can get an unnecessary motor cheap isn't a smart move. Even though the restoration is around 25 years old, it still looks as if it was done last year. The guy's attention to detail is impressive. I think I'm just going to undo all the little things that sitting a few years has done to her, get the trans issue ironed out, and enjoy her. I only paid $2800 for her, anyway!

Sounds like a better plan then ripping everything apart to put a low performance Hemi in it.

What body style is your 49?

I don't suppose you happened to get any pictures of it you would like to share? We are all a bunch of picture junkies.

It sure seems like a spring thaw is a long way off this year, even though Sunday is the 1st of March. Sure couldn't tell by looking out the window at my Plymouth coupe buried under snow along side my driveway. We've gotten more snow in Feb then we got all the rest of the winter. Gene

It is the "first series 1949", which is really just a 1948 with 1949 numbers. It is a Special Deluxe Sedan, in "Panama Sand" which is a yellowish tan color. I will get over to get pics as soon as I'm able. As soon as we have a bit of a warm up, I'm going over to repair the power feed to the garage which was pulled down by ice. I want to get the heat in there working again!

Glad that you have come to your senses!
I wrote that big list because that's often what happens when someone tears a car apart to make a couple changes.
It sounds like it will be fine once the trans is fixed. If you still want more at that point, I'd suggest a 5 speed manual, driveshaft and a 3.23 rear axle.
It will be a blast and still cool under the hood.
The hemi would be just a ton of work for little gain.

Here's a similar one from the net...

I thought the Hemi would give it a bit more oomph and look badass under the hood.....That coupled with the thought of getting a fresh 331 Hemi for $1200.....I really just want it to be able to keep up with traffic on the thruway 65 - 70 mph comfortably. Like I said, this car is going to be used as it was meant to be during the summer....an almost daily driver. Picnics, park trips, beach runs camping.....It's going to be babied, but it's going to be used. The pic you posted looks almost exactly like mine, except mine has skirts, a visor, wide whites with baby moons, I can't see the front, but mine has 50's period fog lights and bumper overriders. It's also been lowered 2". I gotta say... I like that body better than the one they came out with for '49! I'm not going to do anything with the tranny that would require modifying the column, mounting out of place floor shifters, or anything like that. I love the look of the dash/wheel/interior in general too much to go screwing around with it. As more and more of these cars get hacked up and modernized, it leaves precious few originals out there. Although mine isn't "original" it wouldn't take much to get it back there.....I personally have an affinity for the look and feel rods of our fathers, although I may consider a brake upgrade for safety reasons-maybe power discs..... anyone know what's out there interchange wise?

Here's a build I just found, it's beautiful, but as I said it adds a bunch of stuff you weren't going to include.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/48-hemi-plym-mock-up-pics.847329/

I think you will be happier keeping your theme of a 50's high school build by keeping the flat 6.

Yeah... I like that ALOT. If my car was in the same condition as that, I probably would seriously still consider the Hemi. Wanting to keep it a '50's style rod, to me, doesn't preclude mods like that guy is performing.I personally don't want computers or computer controls, fuel injection, digital dashes,etc.in MY car.I deal with enough of that crap with my daily... For a car that's in sad enough condition that it would cost as much to go either way, stock or custom, I would LOVE to heavily customize something, but still stay in the old school vein. I personally think he should chop that car. It would be rough, but done right, worth it!

The older chassis was built for an inline engine. There might be a lot of encroachment on the sides.

The Firepower Hemi is HUGE and weighs a ton. It would not be an easy fit into the engine compartment.

A Poly Plymouth engine (or Dodge pickup) is the same size as a LA but looks its age (older). They first appeared in something like 1956.
It would be easier to stick in your car, but would still be a chore.

Anything short of a turbocharger on the flathead 6 is still going to be slow. There were larger displacement Flathead 6s, as big as 265, but they are longer, IIRC. Still it might be an easier swap.

In reality, it is usually better to keep a car on the road. I have had too many projects drag on for years (one of my problems) and when it's sitting in the shop or under a tree waiting its turn you don't get a lot of enjoyment out of the car!
R.

Andy,
If you want to go to a disc brake conversion, there are several options available. I have personally used kits from Charlie at www.rustyhope.com. All the available kits require some work, but there is one out there that is suppose to use off the shelf parts that you don't have to modify anything on your car to do, unfortunately, I don't have a link to it.

Don't let the motorheads lead you astray, the flathead 6 in a modified form, like yours, is fully capable of keeping up with traffic. I wouldn't want to do much drag racing, but they make great drivers. Gene

Thanks Gene! My racing days are pretty much over... I'm in family truckster mode now. I want a big boat that'll hold the family plus a trunk full, with style.I want enough power to pass on the t-way at 65-70 mph but not at 5k rpms! I want to be able to STOP the tank, too. I would prefer to be able to reverse the process if I ever want to take it completely back to stock, though. Like I said before, the more of these cars that get cut up and modified, the fewer there are to show future generations what they really looked, felt, and drove like. I love a good rod, don't get me wrong, but I prefer to save that treatment for basket cases. I played with the old Hemi idea, thinking it would be a relatively quick bolt in easily reversible mod, like swapping a small block into a 6 cyl A body. The "newer" stuff is where my experience lies....late 50's - 80's....That coupled with the fact I sold my last car when I got married almost 20 years ago....a LOT of companies products and technology has come and gone in the automotive world in that time!

Let me be the first to suggest a supercharger on the six, probably limited to about 4lb of boost. Then you need to get the gearing settled for cruising. A 3-speed with overdrive would be cool.

R.

hi Andyjon100; I have a 55 dodge coronet 2dr. My idea is make mine like late 50s to mid 60s , no newer than65. Mild custom I am however going with a motor, trans, and rear end from my 88 Chrysler 5th ave. No bucket seats, no floor shift unless I need to as they were used in many cars back then. I grew up in the 50s and 60s. just missed the Nam draft. My oldest daughter was born in 1969(had a brand new RoadRunner convertible). keep us posted on your progress. mike mhutch1948

...somehow missed this thread...

Yup, we are a Hemi shop and, no I do not recommend using the 52-331 for your 49 car. Way too much involved.
Any of the Hemi-based Poly engines would be an easy swap and many have been done.
Read through this:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/lookey-what-i-got-for-a-project-hyfire-poly.360864/