Moparts
Introduction and Looking For Some Advice
Posted By: jingro
Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 10/21/13 11:55 PM
Hello, I have a 1938 Plymouth truck that I recently won at my church's annual car show. It's mostly original and in pretty good shape. Right now I enjoy driving it as it is, but would could see doing somethings to it, but I'm not sure what.
It would be much more enjoyable without all the shifting. Is there an auto transmission that would bolt to the flat head six, without a whole lot of work, or expence?
Any suggestions on what I should do with the truck? I would want something that I could drive, enjoy and not sink a ton of cash into.
I've built a few cars, and have experience and ability to do the work myself. Thanks
Posted By: jingro
Back - 10/22/13 12:13 AM
Back
Posted By: jingro
Front - 10/22/13 12:30 AM
Here is the front.
Posted By: jingro
Interior - 10/22/13 12:32 AM
The inside has a new seat, matt and door panels.
Posted By: jingro
Engine - 10/22/13 12:35 AM
Engine
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Engine - 10/22/13 01:09 AM
You lucky so-and-so!
Start here. I'd suggest using a later 904 with the lower First gearset.
http://www.qualityengineeredcomponents.com/Or, here
http://www.wilcap.com/chryslerfh.html#230350BOPATR.
Posted By: poorboy
Re: Engine - 10/22/13 04:55 AM
Lucky you! No one has given me anything that still moved under its own power, ever.
I would go for the adapter to put the 904 Mopar automatic in your truck. While your changing the transmission, change the rear axle as well. A newer axle assembly with a rear gear in the 3:23- 3:55 range would be a lot nicer behind the flat head 6 and the auto trans, you would be able to drive your truck at highway speeds. Gene
Posted By: jingro
Re: Engine - 10/22/13 08:14 AM
I like the idea of being able to cruise it on the highway and keeping the original engine for the wow factor. I will research the adapter plates. Are there any older auto transmissions that just bolt up to it without having to use the adapter and switch to 12v for the starter?
What about wheels and tires to give it a hot rod look? Or leave it like it is.
Thanks
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Engine - 10/22/13 04:54 PM
I believe the better features of the modern aluminum case Torqueflite outweigh the lower cost of the bolt-on cast iron Torqueflite. I also believe cast iron Torqueflites were all pushbutton shift, adding another layer of complexity to the swap.
R.
Posted By: poorboy
Re: Engine - 10/23/13 02:31 AM
Quote:
What about wheels and tires to give it a hot rod look? Or leave it like it is.
Thanks
I'm not sure what bolt pattern they used on that era truck, but the original wheels are held in place with wheel bolts instead of studs and nuts like the modern stuff. Also, one side has left hand threads (loosens backwards), the left hand thread bots have a "L" on the top of the bolt. The other side will have right hand threaded bolts. Don't mix them up. Any modern wheels with the same bolt pattern can be used as long as the lug bolts will hold them on. There is also a mounting stud that is attached to each of the wheel mounting surfaces. That stud is intended to hold the wheel while you screw in the lug bolts. That stud will have to be removed (grind it off) to mount modern wheels on your truck. Once that stud is removed, you have to hold the wheel up to start the lug bolts. At one time there were "kits" available to replace the lug bolts with studs and nuts, but I'm not sure those are available any more. I suppose to could source out the screw in studs and buy the nuts separately. Replacing the lug bolts with studs and nuts would open up the wheel choice even more.
Another thought is if your upgrading to a modern rear axle, one might consider a disc brake conversion as well. That would solve the lug bolt issue all together. I believe www.rustyhope.com has a disc brake conversion available for your truck. Modern brakes and a modern transmission would be great upgrades that would increase the driving fun. I love these old cars and trucks, but i like the modern stopping ability as well. Gene
Posted By: jingro
Re: Engine - 10/23/13 07:58 AM
After having to do a couple of hard stop for traffic, I like the idea of modern brakes.
What about converting it to a 12 volt system? Is there more to it than Alt, bulbs and a battery? The truck has been re-wired front to back.
Thanks for all the input!!!
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Engine - 10/23/13 04:57 PM
Your truck wheel bolt pattern is 5 on 4 1/2"
So most any Mopar or Ford wheel will work, assuming centerbore isn't an issue.
I am going to '98 Crown Vic cop wheels on the front of my '64, they are 16 x 7. I'll have to open up the center a little or else use a small spacer.
R.
Posted By: poorboy
Re: Engine - 10/24/13 06:11 AM
Quote:
After having to do a couple of hard stop for traffic, I like the idea of modern brakes.
What about converting it to a 12 volt system? Is there more to it than Alt, bulbs and a battery? The truck has been re-wired front to back.
Thanks for all the input!!!
Wiring depends on how whoever replaced it did the job. Originally, that was probably a 6 volt positive ground. If all the wiring was done as a positive ground, some things might not work when you go to 12 neg ground.
You will also have to do something with any electrical components like a radio or electric wipers if your truck has either of those. You will also have to have a voltage reducer for the fuel gauge. Your probably going to swap the starter for a newer one to match the trans, so that shouldn't be an issue. Be sure to list that starter for sale online, they are getting hard to find in good shape.
I can tell you I have swapped in a 12 volt negative ground battery into a 6 positive ground system before and other the frying the lights in short order, the cars drove good. Not saying its right, only I've done it before. Gene
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Engine - 10/24/13 04:55 PM
The interesting thing about 12V car systems is that most use 5-6 volts at the dashboard. Chrysler products usually use a voltage limiter or reducer mounted behind the gauges.
Mopar gauges operate by current heating an element in the gauge. they are relatively insensitive to voltage spikes. As a result, the voltage limiter acts like a mechanical pulse-width-modulation unit.
You can achieve the same result but with regulated 5 volt output by building a voltage reducer using commonly available PC power supply chips. There are many articles on this build on the Web.
R.
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Engine - 10/24/13 11:28 PM
Many years ago I had a 38 Plymouth. Was thinking to convert to 12v setup, to prep for an eventual V* conversion. had a long talk with a local starter shop of good repute and was told that it that the starter would run fine with 12v as long as the engine was easy to start, as in it didn't take a bunch of cranking to start it. But if I want to they could rebuild the starter and upgrade it to 12v operation when/if it failed.
I had an old timer sit down with me and we discussed the other aspects of swapping over to 12v operation and his comments on the gauges pretty much mirrors dogdays statements. Since it had no wipers that wasn't an issue either.
Posted By: poorboy
Re: Engine - 10/25/13 03:30 AM
If he upgrades the transmission, he will be changing to a modern 12 volt starter, so it shouldn't be an issue.
I forgot about the low voltage gauges on modern stuff. Oops.
Gene
Posted By: jingro
Re: Engine - 10/26/13 03:12 PM
Thanks for all the info.
Poorboy, when you went to a 12v system, you didn't have to do anything with the guages? I would like to keep the originals, as they still work and look good.
Also, does anyone sell a dropped front I-beam for these trucks? Or is there another way to lower the front end? If I did new wheels, I would like to lower it too.
Posted By: demon
Re: Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 10/26/13 05:18 PM
If I owned the pickup, I wouldn't change a thing. Maybe the 12V upgrade but thts about it. I happen to love original survivor type vehicles. I don't want to knock your ideas because it is your truck. But my personal opinion is if you lower it and add modern wheels and an automatic, you turn a nice original into a hot rod. Then where does it end? Just my 2 cents.
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 10/26/13 08:26 PM
Quote:
If I owned the pickup, I wouldn't change a thing. Maybe the 12V upgrade but thts about it. I happen to love original survivor type vehicles. I don't want to knock your ideas because it is your truck. But my personal opinion is if you lower it and add modern wheels and an automatic, you turn a nice original into a hot rod. Then where does it end? Just my 2 cents.
I ends like this, looking cool
Posted By: MrBelvedere2
Re: Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 10/26/13 09:30 PM
I think you need to sell me that truck. I've been looking for one like that for a long time!!!
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 10/27/13 12:18 AM
Quote:
I think you need to sell me that truck. I've been looking for one like that for a long time!!!
I love this old girl, I plan on keeping her for a long time.
Posted By: Twostick
Re: Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 10/27/13 06:11 AM
If I was going to the trouble of putting an automatic behind that flathead I would be going with an A500 OD.
Kevin
Posted By: jingro
Re: Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 10/27/13 06:25 AM
I know it's a slippery slope when you start fixing them up. I enjoy the truck the way it is, but I sure like the looks of a street rod pick up. This one is so original, it makes it a tough call. Maybe I could do an automatic and leave the rest alone.
I even have the entire history of the truck from the bill of sale and letter from the president of the dealership thanking the buyer for the purchase, to tow bills from when it broke down in the 40's and fifties.
I found a torqeflite from a fifties hemi locally, will that bolt up without an adapter plate and still be able to run the 6v system? It looks like the starter is in the same place from what I can see.
Thanks
Posted By: Mike P
Re: Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 10/27/13 12:18 PM
The transmission would work, but you would need the 6 Cylinder bellhousing, and I believe they also used a spacer plate. It would be cable shifted so you would also need to figure that out.
As light as the truck is I might consider using finding a 2 speed Powerflight rather than the 3 speed Torqueflight. The Powerflights were also air cooled (which would eliminate the need for cooling lines).
Posted By: RodStRace
Re: Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 10/27/13 05:38 PM
I'd suggest looking at the P-15, D-24 site for a bunch of answers about updating an older Mopar.
They dig original, but also discuss such things as brakes, electrical, drivetrains, etc.
I understand wanting it to be more reliable and safe on modern roads, but I'd really try to keep as much stock as possible.
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 10/28/13 03:46 PM
Jingro, if you want a street rod then why not sell this one and buy one that has already been modified? If not then do whatever makes you happy with this one, these trucks are rare but even restored 100% the don't bring big money. This truck a 1937 is for sale right here on Moparts for 15K
Posted By: poorboy
Re: Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 10/29/13 03:33 AM
My
Original or restored is OK if you only want to drive them in a parade. If you intend on driving it more often, or on the highways, a brake upgrade and a rear axle change is (or should be) the minimum standard. If you want add an automatic trans, upgrading to 12 volts is another logical step. If you have the space, keep the original stuff so you can later, or whoever gets it next can return it to stock if that is their thing. You're not planning anything that can't easily be undone. As far as value is concerned, mild upgrades like you considering will likely add value over stone stock for anyone except the hard core numbers guy. Most people are going to like the idea of getting something that looks old but can be driven any time they want. Personally, I'd change the wheels and tires too.
Of the original gauges, everything except the fuel gauge is mechanical, voltage will not have any effect on them. The amp gauge will be showing a wider needle swing with 12 volts then it did with 6 volts, but should be OK. Change the gauge lighting to 12 volts or add a voltage reducer and take care of that fuel gauge and everything should be wonderful. Gene
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 10/29/13 03:37 AM
Quote:
My
Original or restored is OK if you only want to drive them in a parade. If you intend on driving it more often, or on the highways, a brake upgrade and a rear axle change is (or should be) the minimum standard. If you want add an automatic trans, upgrading to 12 volts is another logical step. If you have the space, keep the original stuff so you can later, or whoever gets it next can return it to stock if that is their thing. You're not planning anything that can't easily be undone. As far as value is concerned, mild upgrades like you considering will likely add value over stone stock for anyone except the hard core numbers guy. Most people are going to like the idea of getting something that looks old but can be driven any time they want. Personally, I'd change the wheels and tires too.
Of the original gauges, everything except the fuel gauge is mechanical, voltage will not have any effect on them. The amp gauge will be showing a wider needle swing with 12 volts then it did with 6 volts, but should be OK. Change the gauge lighting to 12 volts or add a voltage reducer and take care of that fuel gauge and everything should be wonderful. Gene
That's exactly why I bought mine, looks old but has a more modern drivetrain with 12 volt conversion. This is a Dodge but this is the look I'm eventually shooting for, bad azz
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 10/30/13 01:07 AM
Perfectly restored it still isn't worth much. It'll never be.
For driving around a small town it'd be the cat's meow. But get it on the highway and you'll be the slow car that has a line of cars caught behind it.
That flathead six has two strikes on it already. It's small, as engines go, and makes little power. It was known in my neighborhood as an engine that had problems with the crankshaft.
Do a sensible job of hot rodding it and its value doubles. I'd suggest a 5.2 Mag with a-500 overdrive and a rear gear around 3.23.
I believe the mustangII front suspension from an aftermarket source would fit better than the Dakota swap, and for a rear possibly a ford 8.8 with disk brakes to get disks all around. Then you'd have the choice of whether to add air conditioning or not.
It'll weigh less than 3000 lb and get good mileage, be fun to drive and be able to keep up with traffic on the Interstate.
That's my prescription.
R.
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 10/30/13 01:55 AM
Not that small, just old tech. Low compression, long stroke, soft crank that doesn't like high rpm, poor manifolding, valve in block flathead. But it makes good low end torque so if you added an OD to the existing trans it'd be better on the highway. If you got ambitious a small turbo with low boost would help, alot.
As for the OD, back int he 50's Chrysler had an optional OD unit that would bolt on to the existing three speed by replacing the tail shaft housing and other parts. If you could find one of those it would bolt up to the 37's, it's electrically operated.
Posted By: jingro
Re: Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 11/03/13 06:28 AM
Boy, those are a couple of nice looking trucks. Thanks for all the feedback guys. For now, I am going to leave it alone and enjoy it. I do see making it a driver in the future, but it is so cool like it is now, I hate to mess with it.
In the last couple of weeks I've had 3 guys want to buy it and had an old guy at Home Depot tell me all about the one he grew up with on his Dad's farm. He had me in the parking lot for 20 minutes looking it over and sitting in it. I was going to let him drive it, but his wife put an end to that idea. That's never happened with any of my muscle cars.
I just picked up a 1953 Plymouth station wagon, now maybe that one I could turn into a rod.
Posted By: fstfish66
Re: Introduction and Looking For Some Advice - 11/07/13 07:50 AM
Quote:
Boy, those are a couple of nice looking trucks. Thanks for all the feedback guys. For now, I am going to leave it alone and enjoy it. I do see making it a driver in the future, but it is so cool like it is now, I hate to mess with it.
In the last couple of weeks I've had 3 guys want to buy it and had an old guy at Home Depot tell me all about the one he grew up with on his Dad's farm. He had me in the parking lot for 20 minutes looking it over and sitting in it. I was going to let him drive it, but his wife put an end to that idea. That's never happened with any of my muscle cars.
I just picked up a 1953 Plymouth station wagon, now maybe that one I could turn into a rod.
congrats on your free super hard to find plymouth truck,,some oen must be looking out for you,,,,,
that black 37/38 is sweet as well is the red street rod truck,,,and i dont even like red lol