Dakota F-body swap - You there Poorboy?

Gene (Poorboy), you were pretty good at talking me down a couple of years ago when I wanted to swap a Dakota frame under my F-body Volare. Good info. Thanks for that. However, you may need to talk me down again.

I’ll be picking up an aftermarket Dakota crossmember originally for a 53/56 Ford F100 pickup. It comes from Elpolacko over at Industrial Chassis. Anyway, this was the older version (there is an updated version available now I think). I understand I’ll have to “wrap” the Volare frame for strength in order to use it. Dimensions look pretty good too. It’s only .25”wider than the Volare frame rails. Should slide in pretty good. I’ve only got $350 into this. Any thoughts or ideas?

Greg

Elpolacko (I think his first name is Steve) is a great guy with lots more suspension experience then I will ever have. I suggest you contact him and seek his words of wisdom, he will not point you in the wrong direction.

He builds the kits and can tell you what you need to do, or not to do as far as your F body is concerned.

I will not pretend to know more then a guy like Elpolacko. Taking advice from him would be much better then accepting my thoughts with my limited knowledge.

I'm not afraid to speak up when I feel someone with little or no understanding wants to do something suspension related I think might be dangerous, but I'm smart enough to know when someone that knows more then me about a subject speaks, I should shut up and listen.


Please let us know what he thinks, and suggests, about the subject, I think we can all learn something here.

I do want to remind you, your F body does not have a frame in the front. You have a reinforced, 16 gauge (or maybe even 18 gauge), multiple piece, sheet metal box they call a frame. Gene

Yet again, that sounds like some pretty good advice! I dropped him an e-mail a few years ago about his and, at the time, said it was doable. Looks like I'll need some specifics. I'll keep you posted.

I also remember, quite clearly, your info about the F-body "frame" and how thin it actually is. Woke me up for sure...

Greg

Greg, were you the one who also looked into a Lexus SC300/400 IFS? There was someone with a F body who was looking at a few options for IFS. I was looking for IFS options for a 68 Scout and ran across them. I ended up picking up a AMC Pacer IFS but it will need some modifications to fit so I'm still deciding what I'll do.

What are with widths where I made the Red lines on your picture? See attachment, my pictures never show up here.

Oh yeah, that was me. I'd looked into a LOT of options in an effort to replace the torsion bar setup in my Volare. Lexus Sc300\400 was actually a good fit, but, it required quite a bit of fabbing to get coilovers in. Threw that one out. I'll be getting the crossmember on Monday so I can give you some measurements then. I did, however, ask the gent I bought it from to send me some dimensions. Here's the text:

"Hi Greg,

I have the dimensions you requested. As you probably know, the Ford F-100 frame rails taper, narrower toward the fron, therefore the side or boxing plates also taper as to their spacing.

Note: all dimensions below are outside to outside

Using your photo, dimension line "A", at the specific point, where the leading edge of the crossmember attaches to the side plate, the width is 29 9/16"

At the leading (front) edge of the boxing plate the width is 29 3/8"

At the rear edge of the center crossmember to side plate the width is 29 7/8"

At the back edge of the boxing plate the width is 30 1/8"

The overall length of the side plate, tip to tip at the top is 21 9/16"

So, there is 3/4" taper of the side plates over their length
________________________________________________________________________

Dimension "B"

Spacing from side to side at centerline of "A" arm anchor bolt hole appears to me to be 25 3/4"

Ray"


So far, that's what I know.

Greg

I guess I'm not as crazy as I thought. Message from Elpolako:

"Steve wrote:

Hi Greg,
I think it would be plausible to do. You could trim down the boxing plates of my old kit there to more resemble the “rails” in your car, then I would clad the other three sides of the rails to make a box section."

Sounds like my own line of attack.

Greg

Sounds like the plan is to make a box/tube over top of your existing "frame" (clad the other three sides) and adding the cross member. Steve says it should work, so it sounds like a plan to me. Did he say how far you should go with the clad plating, as in, how far in either direction from the cross member?

Keep us posted on the progress. Gene

Hi Gene,
No, he didn’t say, but, I’ll ASSUME it’s best to clad BACK to the F-body transmission crossmember and weld frame connectors in at that point to tie everything together. I’ll also ASSUME it’s best to go as far forward as possible (at least to where the bumper bolts to the chassis. That’s the plan… Also, looking closely at the F-body rails, it looks like the sheet metal is lipped together and spot welded (is this clear?). I suspect I’ll have to cut off the protruding lip portion and seam weld it together. That will make it smoother for cladding.

Greg

Quote:

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Hi Gene,
No, he didn’t say, but, I’ll ASSUME it’s best to clad BACK to the F-body transmission crossmember and weld frame connectors in at that point to tie everything together. I’ll also ASSUME it’s best to go as far forward as possible (at least to where the bumper bolts to the chassis. That’s the plan… Also, looking closely at the F-body rails, it looks like the sheet metal is lipped together and spot welded (is this clear?). I suspect I’ll have to cut off the protruding lip portion and seam weld it together. That will make it smoother for cladding.

Greg

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Greg, Your plan sounds correct, the "frame" is spot welded together at the lip. I would cut one side at a time, and clad it as you go. Once one side has been joined with the top and bottom, then cut off the other flange and clad it.

I think I would also make sure your trans crossmember is secure to the rails when you get done. I dirt track raced an F body years ago and was side swiped by another car that was going faster then I was. When that car caught the front bumper, it pulled the frame rail away from the transmission crossmember, the factory welds were very poor. Understand, that F body was very rusty, but the condition of the metal surrounding that joint at the cross member was fairly good condition with bad spot welds. I simply would not rely on the factory spot welds at the rail to crossmember joint.
Gene