W9 or BA MC's

Posted By: dodgeboy11

W9 or BA MC's - 11/21/11 04:05 AM

I'm wondering if anyone has tried either of these heads on a 4.030" bore. I was thinking of getting a pair without valves and setting them up with a tad smaller than recommended valve (intake) to reduce shrouding. I'm leaning towards the W9's simply because the price is right and I know they're a very capable head that will fit on the smaller bores. The only set of MC's I've seen had been ruined by someone that thought a large rectangle big block chevy port would look good funneling down to a small block bowl area. Needless to say that while they flowed a whole 320 cfm, the velocity sucked and I couldn't find the other 30 cfm that should have been there by rights.
But I digress. What are the ins and outs of using these heads knowing that the bore is 4.030, headers are a custom deal and I'm running a 59 degree lifter angle (for now)? Rockers will be T&D unless I find some Jesel's cheaper.
Thanks for any information, I appreciate it.
Jason.

Posted By: DakFink

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/21/11 05:05 AM

Don't know a Whole Bunch on the BA MC's

BUT the W9 I know a lil bit about.

Don't let the Bare Head cost of W9's fool you. They get pricey quick.
$1200-1400 for T&D Rockers (offset)
Custom Oil Valley Tray
Custom AN fittings for cooling lines
Custom AN Manifold for AN cooling lines
Offset lifters
Intake that is a bit pricey $450-650 (IIRC) or a Sheetmetal.

If your going to run them on a 59* block the inner bolt bosses will have to be milled away for push rod clearance. The outer ones can be left intact but look funny with NO bolts in them.if your using a 4-head bolt block.

Trying to run them with a 4.030 bore?? I'm not think that would be a good situation. I'm far from an expert BUT I'm thinking with 4.030" your looking at 2.05-2.08 max Intake valve before you run into clearance/shrouding issues.

Have you considered the Indy 360's?

Posted By: tubtar

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/21/11 05:23 AM

I do believe there is such a thing as a 59 degree W-9........the push rod clearance is machined in them and the outer bolt bosses are milled off.
They are somewhat limited as far as porting due to the material removed from the side of the intake ports for push rod clearance and I believe they were made with guides ( 3/8th valve ) installed.
The valley tray could be fabbed from sheet aluminum..........the rest is pretty accurate based on my experience.
I have a lot wrapped up in fittings and am still puzzling over a manifold and how to incorporate a thermostat.......or not to bother.
Intakes for the tall deck are very pricey and getting hard to find..........expect to drop around 450-500 bucks for a new one.
the rockers were under 1,200.00 from T&D......Bought through Competition Products.
Ryan hooked me up with lifters , but you may need something different for a 59 degree set up.
Ryan / Shady Dell has been a great resource for tips and " how to's " for me on my build.
The lifters for the 48 degree were 720.00ish as I recall.

Posted By: dodgeboy11

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/21/11 07:11 AM

Well that S-can's the W9 idea. My whole thought process was to get them and then use them on a 48 degree block down the road, but if it requires that much milling to use on a 59 degree then I may as well just get the Indy's and go from there. Hard to pass up the 500 a piece on the W9's though. Keep seeing them on fleabay.
You might both be interested in knowing that the BA MC's I flow tested fit on a 4.030" bore on the flowbench. I believe the intake valve was a 2.125 but it may have been larger.
Anyway, I appreciate your time and the information you've both provided.
Jason.

Posted By: dodgeboy11

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/21/11 07:17 AM

Tubtar, have you considered something along the lines of this
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-63426/
for your thermostat setup?

Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/21/11 07:26 AM

J,

I'm going to go the W-9 rout but I'm saving my penny's to buy the R3 with a 9.600" deck 48* block.

I was told that you could buy the 59* W-9 and they will work on a 48* block. The 59* W-9 has all the work already done to them but they will only have 4 bolts not six because they cut the front of the head as well as the valley side.

More good news, I have a complete Predator top end and a KB block. 596 coming very soon.

I might even get the Duster out a couple times this year with the motor you dynoed.

Bob

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/21/11 08:13 AM

Quote:

I'm wondering if anyone has tried either of these heads on a 4.030" bore. I was thinking of getting a pair without valves and setting them up with a tad smaller than recommended valve (intake) to reduce shrouding. I'm leaning towards the W9's simply because the price is right and I know they're a very capable head that will fit on the smaller bores. The only set of MC's I've seen had been ruined by someone that thought a large rectangle big block chevy port would look good funneling down to a small block bowl area. Needless to say that while they flowed a whole 320 cfm, the velocity sucked and I couldn't find the other 30 cfm that should have been there by rights.
But I digress. What are the ins and outs of using these heads knowing that the bore is 4.030, headers are a custom deal and I'm running a 59 degree lifter angle (for now)? Rockers will be T&D unless I find some Jesel's cheaper.
Thanks for any information, I appreciate it.
Jason.

What are you trying to do? Why not hand port some Indy's?

Posted By: Hot 340

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/21/11 10:43 AM

Forget the 59* version of the w9 head, aint worth the hassle and the ruined CSA. Why not instead use a 48* version and put them on a 59 block? You can put them on a 48* block later when you get one.

Posted By: tubtar

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/21/11 01:48 PM

Quote:

Tubtar, have you considered something along the lines of this
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-63426/
for your thermostat setup?

That is close to what I want to do , but I need to incorporate a 1/2 " NPT for the temp sending unit and am bringing two -6 and one -8 from each head.
I am thinking this will be easier with a manifold type of deal that reaches back towards the carb.
Plus there will be a front mount distributor in the way , so there has been a fair bit of head scratching on this deal so far.

Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/21/11 09:20 PM

Quote:

Forget the 59* version of the w9 head, aint worth the hassle and the ruined CSA. Why not instead use a 48* version and put them on a 59 block? You can put them on a 48* block later when you get one.

That might be the way to go, I think all it takes is a different rocker setup or something like that, correct?

Posted By: fishy340

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/22/11 12:03 AM

THERE IS A SET OF 59DEG W9'S ON RACINGJUNK.COM $800 brandy new for both..now do it right the first time,trust me i know..indys are NOT CHEAP..and 59* w9 WILL NOT PERFORM LIKE the ones for a 48deg motor.RyanJ Sells the valley plate/w the thermostat housing on it(free advice)good luck. AndyB

Posted By: fishy340

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/22/11 12:08 AM

OR YOU CAN WAIT AND PICK UP A SET OF THE NEW EDELBROCK VICTOR HEADS FOR A 59* SB THEY SAY 350CFM AND NO INDY GONNA DO THAT ON A SB,PROBABLY 1/2 THE PRICE OF THE INDY STUFF AS WELL

Posted By: Leon441

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/22/11 12:28 AM

A 48 degree W9 on a 59 degree block is a mess. Guys need to understand it is not the lifter angle that causes the problems with the ports. It is the lifter spacing which is 1.625" on 48 degree stuff and and 1.875" on a 59. When you use a 59 degree block you put the pushrod into the bottom of the intake runner. You clearance for the pushrod and you ruin much of the benefit of running the heads. Considering the expense of getting a set of 48 degree W9's complete ready to race you are peeing in your cornflakes doing this on a 59 degree block.

Can't understand what the big deal is with getting a good block. I'm giving away a complete shortblock in the for sale section.

Leon

Posted By: Hot 340

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/22/11 01:38 AM

Quote:

Can't understand what the big deal is with getting a good block.

Leon

Posted By: b1dartsport

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/22/11 02:48 AM

Quote:

OR YOU CAN WAIT AND PICK UP A SET OF THE NEW EDELBROCK VICTOR HEADS FOR A 59* SB THEY SAY 350CFM AND NO INDY GONNA DO THAT ON A SB,PROBABLY 1/2 THE PRICE OF THE INDY STUFF AS WELL

Just saw a pair of new Indy 360-1s 245 cnc with the 2.14 intake valve,new proper valve job and bowl blend at a chevy shop just north of here. They went 347@ .700 on his bench. As far as the edelbrocks go, I will believe it when I see it. You may be able to get a big # from them after you spend $1000 with a good head porter. Also I don't think the super Victor intake is even close to the Indy intake, so if you can't adapt the Indy intake, edelbrock is going to have to do some work there also. Just my

Posted By: fishy340

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/22/11 03:09 AM

3100 for indy top 1/2 on sale,1000 for cnc work,1100 for good rockers t&d or jesel type,cause the ones that come with it,i wouldn't use for over 600hp or 6000 rpm.That comes to 5200 beans..o i almost forgot a basic port match to the intake which i agree is awesome maybe 5500$? or get a used set? just my

Posted By: fishy340

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/22/11 03:10 AM

for another 3000 grand you can buy a r5/p7 motor and headers

Posted By: b1dartsport

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/22/11 04:14 AM

I bought my new Indy 360-2 230 cnc heads on ebag for $1800. I am using T & D rockers,but you are probably going to have to use the same rockers on a 350cfm edelbrock head,the rpm requirements are going to be the same. I just have doubts that they are going to sell an out of the box 350cfm head for $1500. I hope they do,but I think what you are going to get is a 300cfm head for that price and they are going to need work to flow the big number. We will see

Posted By: jg309

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/22/11 07:53 AM

i know wheres theres a set of brodx that came of a 4.02 bore engine, hughs engine done all the work on them,you get heads,valves, s/s rockers,intake all done by hughes,if intrested call me @618-806-1564 & i'll give you the # & specs.jg309

Posted By: dodgeboy11

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/22/11 08:14 AM

Hey Bob! Can you build a small block with a username like yours?

I can hardly wait to see the big motor run. I imagine the duster'll be a handful with the 499 so the other will be flat crazy!
I'm not going to run W9's on a 59 degree block. It kinda defeats the purpose if I have to cut that much material out of them to fit. I'm just looking for the best heads for the combo I have and it looks like the oval Indy's are getting the nod. By the time I'm done with them they will be closer in size to the rectangle port heads but I want them to be the shape I want them to be. I'm not terribly concerned about the cost of things. It'll just take me longer to get the funds saved up (obviously) if the price of things is up there.
This, so far, is what I have:
74 360 block bored .030, pro-gram splayed main caps and a partial fill. Studs on the top end. Scat stage I lightened 4" stroke crank with Scat H-beam rods and ARP2000 bolts. Pro-tru flat top pistons.
It's a decent bottom end and I want to use it. Unfortunately, since I no longer have access to a machine shop, my 317 cfm Ede RPM heads won't be able to work as I only managed to finish one port. Besides, what a waste of time. Managed 327 cfm out of the Indy ovals on my first try AND at a lower lift. Anyway, I've known for awhile that the Indy's were what I need to run on this short block. Just need to be realistic and set my rpm ceiling to 7500 which is, I think, within the realm of possible with a 59 degree block and keeping it reliable. Eventually I will be looking for an R3 block and that will be a 48 degree setup. Then I'll start looking for some W9's and go from there.
Thank you everyone, for your input. I really appreciate it.
Jason.

Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/22/11 08:38 AM

J,

Let me know if your ever up this way and I'll buy you lunch and catch up.

Bob

Posted By: jg309

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/22/11 08:07 PM

jason those brodx heads i was telling you about, they have 2.02 s/s valves,all ported polished, the rockers are 1.6 s/s corect by hughs, the intake has been flowed by hughs,the heads have a 42cc chamber & he'll take $2000 + freight for it all,later my freind

Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/22/11 09:09 PM

I don't have any personal experience with either head, however when I was researching heads before I bought my W5's I found over and over that the Brodix MC head was not that good at lower lifts. Peak flow was there but the lower lift numbers were easily beat by other heads. This was actually before the W9's were out so if they've been improved since then I don't know. The only car I know of that has the MC heads is a slug for what it is but that doesn't mean it's the heads fault.

Posted By: dodgeboy11

Re: W9 or BA MC's - 11/23/11 06:05 AM

Bob, I surely will! Planning on being up there around Christmas so maybe we can catch up then!

JG, thanks for the info, but being a head porter myself, I hesitate to buy another set of heads that I haven't ported personally. Seen far too many supposedly good heads with flow sheets that are much better than anything I've ever done, flow like absolute crap when put on the bench I was using. Again, not saying they aren't good heads, but I do as much of my own work as possible. But thank you for thinking of me.

Jones, I honestly wasn't impressed with the MC's I saw. Granted, they had been ruined prior to my seeing them, but I'm not really a fan of doing a bunch of one off stuff if that stuff isn't known to be good. I rely on people on this site for things I've never had anything to do with and also on my own common sense so I really appreciate it when someone offers up their experiences with something regardless of whether it's good or bad.

Thanks again everyone.

Jason.