Moparts

Standard port victor's on a 431?

Posted By: Darrin Burt

Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/17/11 04:26 AM

What do you guys think of running standard port victors on a street/strip 431 motor? Car is a 4 speed with 4.10's 3700 lbs.

Are these heads a waste of time, or would they be a good choice?

Everything else on the engine is out for debate, but it has to be a 431.

Thanks!
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/17/11 10:08 AM

What does Edelbrock have to say? From the specs they look to be an excellent head for a race application with less than 500 cubes. Looks to me like they will work, but will want some rpm as torque peak may come in about 4800 rpm.
Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/17/11 04:48 PM

Quote:

What does Edelbrock have to say? From the specs they look to be an excellent head for a race application with less than 500 cubes. Looks to me like they will work, but will want some rpm as torque peak may come in about 4800 rpm.



i bet it would work very nicely!
Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/17/11 06:23 PM

Quote:

What do you guys think of running standard port victors on a street/strip 431 motor? Car is a 4 speed with 4.10's 3700 lbs.

Are these heads a waste of time, or would they be a good choice?

Everything else on the engine is out for debate, but it has to be a 431.

Thanks!




Hands down, an AWESOME HEAD. They out flowed 440-1's everywhere on our bench. Same guy ported both heads.

-Kenny
Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/17/11 06:36 PM

You won't be disappointed! We're getting ready to do a series of BB builds for CC starting with a steel crank 400 and stealth/victor heads then going to a stroker and comparing those heads with the MW Victor and then a highend build possibly with a Koleno Block.

Std. port Victors IMO are an awesome head but require alot of pushrod clearancing. Only downfall. And they really respond to a good valve job/chamber cut.
Brian
Posted By: deaks

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/17/11 08:18 PM

Brian
How can a head that flows as much as the Victor, not push the rpm up on a smaller none stroked motor.
People refer to their suitability to small engines almost in the same vein as the RPM'S, which are more of a stock replacement.
Is it because they have a broader spread of power and better low to midrange flow numbers.
Mick
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/17/11 08:35 PM

I am curious too. I am willing to bet the reason they flow that well and can work with a smaller motor is the valve length, which allows a small port to flow so well. Same CSA, but a MUCH better port.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/17/11 11:43 PM

Quote:

Brian
How can a head that flows as much as the Victor, not push the rpm up on a smaller none stroked motor.
People refer to their suitability to small engines almost in the same vein as the RPM'S, which are more of a stock replacement.
Is it because they have a broader spread of power and better low to midrange flow numbers.
Mick




The Victor's have a good combination of port speed, valve size, and it's a raised runner head so it has much better cylinder fill.
Posted By: deaks

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/18/11 12:15 AM

My original thoughts were to maybe step up to the EZ's next but the more i hear about the Victors the better they sound.
Mick
Posted By: Joshs68

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/18/11 12:44 AM

how much would they raise things, say from stock to victor measuring at the top of the carb.
Posted By: Darrin Burt

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/18/11 03:35 AM

I would also like to know how far up my intake will be raised. I would like to build this engine with a street friendly cam ( probably a flat tappet because I have sticker shock from roller prices!) and I figure that these heads would be a better choice than the ez's because of the port size and my cubic inches.

Am I nuts to think that i could make a strong running combo out of this?
Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/18/11 06:53 AM

Quote:

I would also like to know how far up my intake will be raised. I would like to build this engine with a street friendly cam ( probably a flat tappet because I have sticker shock from roller prices!) and I figure that these heads would be a better choice than the ez's because of the port size and my cubic inches.

Am I nuts to think that i could make a strong running combo out of this?




Pick the right cam and you'll be super happy. I will be aiming for well over 550HP on pump gas with the 400 and a flat tappet cam.
Posted By: OhioGTX

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/18/11 01:58 PM

I have been running the std port victors on my 499 for the past 2 years. For the money they are a great deal; Performance has been as expected and the only drawback is the work required to clear the push rods. I think I spent about 3 hours with a grinder to get them where I needed them. The benefit I do not hear much about, but was really good for me is Header fitment. I am running Hooker 2" headers in a B body and the fitment was better with these heads than stock steel heads. Only 1 place I had to modify and that was done with a small pipe, block of wood and 2lb hammer.

Best performance with the heads noted in my sig...

Attached picture 6925039-NorwalkSept2011.JPG
Posted By: deaks

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/18/11 02:44 PM

Are you still running the R280 ?
Mick
Posted By: OhioGTX

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/18/11 02:51 PM


Mick - yes still running a 30 year old camshaft ( literally)..it is the crane R280/670 with a set of k-motion springs..The cam is ok, but others would be faster I am sure..
Posted By: BradH

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/18/11 04:24 PM

My only suggestion (based on nothing but opinion at this point) is to keep the runner volume small should you do any porting to the Victors on that size of an engine.

FWIW, I wish I was independently wealthy and able to afford testing my 452 w/ the old Stage VIs, followed up by basically OOB Victors, followed up by my fully-ported Victors. I'd love to see where the improvements (or losses) came from w/ each change, rather than going straight from the Stage VIs to the ported Victors.
Posted By: dragram440

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/18/11 04:35 PM

Quote:

My only suggestion (based on nothing but opinion at this point) is to keep the runner volume small should you do any porting to the Victors on that size of an engine.

FWIW, I wish I was independently wealthy and able to afford testing my 452 w/ the old Stage VIs, followed up by basically OOB Victors, followed up by my fully-ported Victors. I'd love to see where the improvements (or losses) came from w/ each change, rather than going straight from the Stage VIs to the ported Victors.



I would also be interested in how the stage VI's compared to the non ported victors?
Posted By: deaks

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/18/11 05:12 PM

It will be interesting to see how your car performs with the new heads, as the motor is not a million miles from mine, although your stage 6's have the raised exhaust port unlike my edelbrocks.
You can be the test bed, so to speak.
Mick
Posted By: BradH

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/18/11 06:41 PM

Quote:

It will be interesting to see how your car performs with the new heads, as the motor is not a million miles from mine, although your stage 6's have the raised exhaust port unlike my edelbrocks.
You can be the test bed, so to speak.
Mick



Was this response directed to me?
Posted By: deaks

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/18/11 06:43 PM

Yes
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/18/11 07:01 PM

Put them rascals on and go have some fun I have seen the differences in a small port Eddy RPM and a M.W. port Indy SR on the same short block, put them rascals on , you'll like it
Posted By: Get-X

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/18/11 07:04 PM

Quote:

I have been running the std port victors on my 499 for the past 2 years. For the money they are a great deal; Performance has been as expected and the only drawback is the work required to clear the push rods. I think I spent about 3 hours with a grinder to get them where I needed them. The benefit I do not hear much about, but was really good for me is Header fitment. I am running Hooker 2" headers in a B body and the fitment was better with these heads than stock steel heads. Only 1 place I had to modify and that was done with a small pipe, block of wood and 2lb hammer.

Best performance with the heads noted in my sig...




Wow, that thing boots a$$! Is it a b or rb based stroker? I'd love to hear the rest of the combo. Oh, and the car looks awesome as well!!
Posted By: Joshs68

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/18/11 11:34 PM

Still wondering about underhood clearance, anybody have any info on that. I have an M1 now on my 470 w standard port heads. I dont have much room to go up under the hood. Would I be able to use the victor heads and the same intake? or is there a victor heads and ?? intake?? that would work/fit?
Posted By: BradH

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/21/11 04:28 PM

IIRC AndyF's book has a picture of a block mocked up w/ a Victor head on one bank and an Indy EZ (I think) mocked up on the other showing how much higher the intake is raised w/ the Victor heads. If you have minimal clearance now w/ standard-location ports, you'll have clearance problems w/ the Victors since they really kick up the intake height in comparison.
Posted By: Darrin Burt

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/24/11 08:37 PM

Okay, I am thinking about going to these heads. I like the idea that a standard port head like this would work well with a 431.

I have another question. How detrimental would it be to have my pistons .025 below the deck? That is currently where they are, as the deck has never been touched. If I go with ootb victors my cr would be 10.34:1 If I deck the block I don't know what the cr will be. I have been told that .025 in the hole was alot, and if I leave it this way am I giving up alot of power?

Thanks for the advice as I am ready to pull the trigger on a set of victors.
Posted By: deaks

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/24/11 08:44 PM

I used copper coated 0.020 shims with my old 440 with RPM's, to up the compression, i also had the heads milled .050.
The shims would give you .045 quench.
Mick
Posted By: Darrin Burt

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/24/11 08:58 PM

Thanks for the reply. I am still worried about being .025 in the hole. Will that be detrimental to performance all else being equal?
Posted By: EchoSixMike

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/24/11 09:04 PM

There are online compression calculators that will tell you what you're giving up at that compression height. 1 pt of compression is about 3% output IIRC. S/F...Ken M
Posted By: Darrin Burt

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/24/11 09:30 PM

Thanks, I just checked it out.

At .025 in the hole with a .039 gasket, I am at 10.4 : 1

At zero deck with .039 gasket I am at 11 : 1

Is it worth decking the block for a street driven Pump premium engine?
Posted By: EchoSixMike

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/24/11 10:27 PM

Well, I would have the block decked to whatever height it takes to be square, which may be nothing, and then adjust CR depending on cam to be about 10.5-11.0 if running 93oct. Be sure to check all the usual dimensions, valve/piston clearance, valve/cylinder wall clearance, etc. S/F....Ken M
Posted By: viperblue72

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/24/11 10:42 PM

Your pistons 25thou below deck will work just fine. Zero deck is desireable but if the engine is together it will still run great. If you are looking for more compression id mill the heads and/or run a thinner head gasket. Its definitely not worth taking your engine back down when you can get the same basic result by milling the heads or thin gasket.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Standard port victor's on a 431? - 11/25/11 01:49 AM

Quote:

Thanks, I just checked it out.

At .025 in the hole with a .039 gasket, I am at 10.4 : 1

At zero deck with .039 gasket I am at 11 : 1

Is it worth decking the block for a street driven Pump premium engine?




Cometic can make a .017 gasket I think. Have a good valve job done and chamber cut which will lower compression a tad and pickup flow.
This will be the best of all worlds!
Brian
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