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2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS???
Posted By: Labratt
2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 05:54 AM
I haven't had a chance to discuss this with Jeff(MCH)yet...but,was wondering if replacing the 2.14 intakes with the 2.19's would help...or hurt the driveability and torque output of my 440?
Have ANY of you done this?...what were the results?...GOOD,or BAD. Thanks in advance,guys!
Randy B.
Posted By: viperblue72
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 06:35 AM
I don't think it would hurt but the question should be how much would it help and worth the $.
Posted By: Labratt
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 06:48 AM
Chad..2 very good questions!
Would the performance gain be worth the $$$$???
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 07:04 AM
Quote:
Chad..2 very good questions! Would the performance gain be worth the $$$$???
I`m having it done on my home ported rpm`s and Pettis and a few others think it is worth the $$$ as long as the rest of the port can support it. If I get 8-10 cfm(16-20 hp),I`ll be good with that cos I need every hp I can get to get my 9.78 timeslip. 
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 07:15 AM
Quote:
as long as the rest of the port can support it. If I get 8-10 cfm(16-20 hp),I`ll be good with that cos I need every hp I can get to get my 9.78 timeslip.
Posted By: smokinwoody
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 08:32 AM
Randy, the Bulldog heads that are on my engine have 2.19/1.81 valves..they are ported and have been flowed...we even milled the heads for 72cc chambers to get a 12.8 compression..the cam was cut to take advantage of the flow numbers..
the larger the opening, the more that's going to get in and duration of course is how long you let all that in and so on...you already knew that...
Im going to say..have the largest valve cut in..
so to take advantage you may need a new cam as well... definitely flow the heads...
Posted By: deaks
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 09:35 AM
Randy
Are you going to have Jeff mill the heads a little to raise the comp, i had him do mine, as my old engine was overcammed and i didn't have any room to advance but there may be benefits there for you.
Mick
Posted By: tboomer
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 01:25 PM
Randy...Chad brings up a valid point..I don't know what the cost would be by adding new valves an a port job. I thought about that a while back and like Brad H said for my heads it just wouldn't be worth the cost factor. My heads were done by Radar at R&J Performance and he also says that it isn't worth doing. I realize that our engines are different...Used Eddy rpms still bring pretty good money,Perhaps you could get a deal on some Indy EZs....I would love to do that myself but the last frost we had here killed the money tree!!
Good luck on what you decide!!
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 02:09 PM
don't forget t make sure your pistons valve reliefs will handle the 2.190 valve radially. some do, some don't.
Posted By: cl440
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 03:16 PM
I have some 1.88 stainless exhaust valves I ordered and didnt end up using (Switched to 440-1's) . If your interested send me a PM.
Posted By: BradH
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 04:07 PM
My
... you won't notice the difference anywhere except for your bank balance. Unless Jeff K says differently (and his experience obviously far exceeds mine), your combination isn't going to see a significant benefit from a increase in valve size.
And if you don't spend the additional $$$ on bigger valves, that'll leave you w/ that much more $$$ to buy a new carburator (unless you've already made that purchase).
Posted By: firefighter3931
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 04:12 PM
Quote:
My ... you won't notice the difference anywhere except for your bank balance. Unless Jeff K says differently (and his experience obviously far exceeds mine), your combination isn't going to see a significant benefit from a increase in valve size.
And if you don't spend the additional $$$ on bigger valves, that'll leave you w/ that much more $$$ to buy a new carburator (unless you've already made that purchase).
Leave the 2.14's in there and save for a new carb
I'd also have MCH flow a few ports before & after to see what improvement you could/should expect with the cnc work 
Ron
Posted By: LaRoy Engines
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 04:36 PM
Quote:
I haven't had a chance to discuss this with Jeff(MCH)yet...but,was wondering if replacing the 2.14 intakes with the 2.19's would help...or hurt the driveability and torque output of my 440? Have ANY of you done this?...what were the results?...GOOD,or BAD. Thanks in advance,guys! Randy B.
I don't think the 2.19 valves will do ANYTHING.
......but HELP.
I put 2.25 intakes in my Edelbrock Performer RPM heads and they flowed 341 cfm @ .700". The little 451 stroker made 534.9 lb-ft of torque @ 3,500 rpm, 574.0 lb-ft @ 7,200 rpm and 786.9 HP. Oh......all motor, 11.7:1 on 93 octane (the 10% ethanol stuff). Runs fine on 91 octane too.
Big valves work. But what the heck do I know, I live in a town of 909 people, elevation 5280' and the darn deer won't leave my back porch!
Posted By: Labratt
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 04:50 PM
You all have good points, well taken!
Thanks for your opinions!
Brad,Ronnie..I still have to purchase a carb. Do you think a 950 is still the way to go...even with increased air flow,after getting the heads CNC'd??? I'll be checking the P/V clearance shortly,and would like to increase the CR..if the clearances allow it! I'd still like to keep it pump gas friendly,and wonder if 11.5-12:1 will work?
Currently,it's at 10:25. THANKS again in advance for your opinions!
Randy B.
Posted By: tboomer
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 04:57 PM
Some good info here..But how the heck did you get 2.25 valves into an rpm head? Thanks!! Ted (Sorry,Randy,for the Hi-jack)
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 05:12 PM
I'd call Patrick and get you a tweaked Pro-Systems 1000hp 4150, I have 2 of them (one on my 517BB and one on my 414SB) and they are night and day over an OOTB unit for not much more $$$.
As said the 2.19 will tend to pick up the mid range and on a big block they would typically have a similar effect on torque to running a 4-8 degree larger @.200 duration cam. The gains on a conventional height BB port tend to be limited by the short turn and low runner height, not to mention the relatively poor valve to piston wall (shrouding) clearance, so a bigger valve doesn't always help as much (% gain) on a BB standard port head as you might see with a raised port Max Wedge.
I've run 2.25's in an old set of 67' 915's but it was tight and if I didn't notch the bores I doubt it would have helped at all over a 2.19.
Posted By: Labratt
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 05:15 PM
Posted By: BradH
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 05:30 PM
Carb choice... are you still saying your carb budget is limited to $400-500 like when I offered to sell you the BG RS Demon that I lent you over the summer for $700? Or have you decided to open up the wallet a little wider for a carb now that you're also going to (a) paint the car, (b) get the heads ported and (c) whatever else you're thinking about doing <this week>?
Sorry, couldn't help myself...
Posted By: tboomer
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 05:35 PM
I would love to see Jeff at Modern or Dwayne Porter hop in on this thread. I am sure they have both done this and could tell you what to expect!!
Posted By: BradH
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 05:40 PM
Don't hold your breath waiting for Dwayne to chime in, considering he's pretty much checked out from this place AND Randy's already talking w/ Jeff about having him do the work anyway.
I would be interested in hearing from Jeff when he'd recommend going w/ the bigger intake valve vs. not.
Posted By: tboomer
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 05:47 PM
Brad...I sure do miss some of Dwaynes stuff..I always respected what he had to say!
Posted By: LaRoy Engines
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 06:03 PM
Quote:
Some good info here..But how the heck did you get 2.25 valves into an rpm head? Thanks!! Ted (Sorry,Randy,for the Hi-jack)
Well, I used big intake seats.
Posted By: smokinwoody
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 06:09 PM
Randy....I was looking at your signature and I see your engine is a 448(.040 over)..
my 499 was a 448 and had StageVI heads, non maxwedge w/2.14 intakes...of course those heads have raised ports...and compared to maxwedge openings and runner size, they were tiny...but yet with a .557 cam, the Duster would rock...consistant 10.0 and occasional dip into the 9's..and that was when it weighed 3300lbs gross..
so what Im saying now after looking at your info, money probably better spent on the porting and flow correction, then get a cam specked to your flow numbers...
or just can the heads and get bigger stuff...LOL
Posted By: deaks
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 06:36 PM
If i were you Randy, i would have Jeff mill .050 off the heads and try the 2" supersucker, i'm going to try one next year.
Mick
Posted By: moderncylinder
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 06:41 PM
with the 2.190 intake valve you shroud the valve with a smaller bore,, it probably is a gain but usually we only do it with a 4.375 bore or bigger
at a 2.190 the intake valve seats completely on the exh seat where the seats interlock,, this may cause issues in the life on the valve job, though for a drag race car that you freshen every 200 runs or so its fine,, for a real street car,, i dont know if id do it
Posted By: 383man
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 07:39 PM
I did not even realize at first when I went with the Indy EZ heads that they have the 2.19 intake valves. And Dwayne Porter told me to make sure I not only check piston to valve clearence but to check the radial clearence of the valves to the piston. In other words it could have enough clearence from the top of the pistons to the valves but could still be to close from the side of the valve head to the piston in the eyebrow. Mine was ok as I used the clay method to be sure. I went with the EZ heads in case I want to step it up more down the road I feel the EZ head has more potential then the Eddy's if maxed out. Randy are you leaving the shortblock as is ? Ron
Posted By: Labratt
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 11:21 PM
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/09/11 11:27 PM
Quote:
Ron..the answer to your question is YES...stock,re-conditioned rods and all! Brad,the answer to your question is also YES! I'm still looking for that "magical" $500.00 carburetor! 
I REALLY do appreciate your very fair offer on the Demon RS...and you loaning it to me this past summer! THANK YOU! After reading Jeff's comment...looks like the 2.14's are staying put! After what I found when removing the rocker arm assembly....looks like a set of HEAVY DUTY pushrods are in order! 
I'll post a pic a little later this evening! 
I need to get some Play-Dough and check the piston-to-valve clearances to determine amount to mill for CR increase. Maybe 11.5 or 12:1...if allowable.
At those compression ratios I think your going to
be getting away from pump gas(to me its not worth it)
Posted By: Labratt
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 01:53 AM
Welllll....maybe just 11:1!
Posted By: tex013
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 02:28 AM
Randy,
it looks like you are loseing the forest because of the trees.
flowing/porting your heads will tell you what you can have/make.then spend the coin on a cam and decent carb.
heck i just recammed a 440/512 and picked up near as 40hp with a still streetable solid.Dwayne Porter did dress up the heads a few years ago.
you may even want to look to your fuel system and suspension to pick up more et.
good luck
Tex
Posted By: Sport440
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 03:13 AM
Quote:
Quote:
My ... you won't notice the difference anywhere except for your bank balance. Unless Jeff K says differently (and his experience obviously far exceeds mine), your combination isn't going to see a significant benefit from a increase in valve size.
And if you don't spend the additional $$$ on bigger valves, that'll leave you w/ that much more $$$ to buy a new carburator (unless you've already made that purchase).
Leave the 2.14's in there and save for a new carb
I'd also have MCH flow a few ports before & after to see what improvement you could/should expect with the cnc work
Ron
X3 with your combo.
Posted By: camdog440
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 04:09 AM
Posted By: Labratt
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 04:33 AM
Thanks,Mike!
Tex..I HOPE this Comp Solid that Dwayne spec'd out for me a few yrs. ago will still work!...I REALLY like it!
BTW...here is a pic of the pushrod I found when I pulled the driver's side rocker arm assembly off!
WTH!
I'm glad I didn't take it down the track 1 more time,a few weeks ago!
Time to do some research on pushrods!..Smith Bros...Mantons..Trendz?
Here are a couple of pics!
Posted By: Labratt
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 04:36 AM
ANOTHER!
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 04:44 AM
what brand were those?
Posted By: 383man
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 04:49 AM
What brand pushrods are they Randy ? Ron
Posted By: dodgeboy11
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 05:07 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Some good info here..But how the heck did you get 2.25 valves into an rpm head? Thanks!! Ted (Sorry,Randy,for the Hi-jack)
Well, I used big intake seats.
As I remember, the seat's already large enough for the 2.250 valve.
Posted By: Labratt
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 05:14 AM
Dan..Ron,they're from a local company..OEM Products in Mt. Clemens,Mi. Mr. P-Body(Mike Rafferty)has been using their products for quite a while...with no problems whatsoever! And he revs his W-9 small blocks a whole lot higher than my 440!
I'm going to pay them a little visit..hopefully tomorrow! I believe it's a QUALITY issue...heat treat issue!
I might go visit Jeff K. first...I believe he's got a Rockwell hardness tester at his shop.
Posted By: LaRoy Engines
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 05:26 AM
Quote:
There are some good comparisons here...
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Chrysler_Big_Block
There ya go, there ya go! Look at the big increase in flows at the lower lifts. Even if 15% of the bigger valve sees a subtle increase in shrouding, it won't lessen the total flow in that area compared to the smaller valve, and if it did, other 85% of the larger valve more than makes up for it. And lets not hear that bologna about big valves lowering the port velocity and torque. The velocity will be controlled, in the greater part, by cubic inches and rpm vs the smallest sectional area of the port, not the valve size. You will see greater average torque with the bigger valve. Everytime we put in bigger valves we see power increases in 318's to 500's.
Posted By: LaRoy Engines
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 05:42 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Some good info here..But how the heck did you get 2.25 valves into an rpm head? Thanks!! Ted (Sorry,Randy,for the Hi-jack)
Well, I used big intake seats.
As I remember, the seat's already large enough for the 2.250 valve.
On all the RPM heads I have seen, the original intake insert is not big enough to contain the entire 2.25 valve. Therefore, you have to grind the seat for the intake valve into the exhaust seat insert, unless, you replace the intake insert with a larger one. The new intake insert does not interfere, with the exhaust valve seat area in the exhaust insert. Whew!
Posted By: dodgeboy11
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 06:24 AM
I couldn't remember. The shop I used to work for was going to attempt to be in the engine build everyone is talking about, but the economy fell out from under it and my ex employer got a real case of the a$$. I only got to play with the ports a little bit, but initial testing with a max wedge port and 2.250 valve netted 345 cfm max. I couldn't remember how much of the seat contained the valve or not as we had intended on installing different seats and running a 55 degree valve job to increase the mid and high lift flow. I really think I could have exceeded 350 cfm but I had to work on jobs that paid. Those heads are probably sitting on a shelf still if he didn't throw them in the scrap...
Posted By: viperblue72
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 07:29 AM
I don't think the 2.19 valves will do ANYTHING.
......but HELP.
I put 2.25 intakes in my Edelbrock Performer RPM heads and they flowed 341 cfm @ .700". The little 451 stroker made 534.9 lb-ft of torque @ 3,500 rpm, 574.0 lb-ft @ 7,200 rpm and 786.9 HP. Oh......all motor, 11.7:1 on 93 octane (the 10% ethanol stuff). Runs fine on 91 octane too.
Pump gas eddie headed 451? Pushing 800 horsepower? I say b.s.
Posted By: LaRoy Engines
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 10:03 AM
Quote:
Pump gas eddie headed 451? Pushing 800 horsepower? I say b.s.
Okay, that is understandable. As I look at it, I did make a mistake. This dyno run shows a beginning of 4,000 rpm, my apologies. I can produce other dyno sheets of 3,100-7,200 with torque above 500 lb-ft from 3,500-7,200 rpm and peaks over 600 lb-ft.
The engine ran in the 2009 Mopar Muscle Magazine Engine Challenge at 600 rpm/sec (less load on the engine) and pulling a mechanical water pump. On an exhibition run after the Challenge, it made 726 HP @ 7,600 RPM and 723.4 HP @ 7,000 RPM during the Challenge. See the May, 2010 issue for a brief build description.
The pull below was months later at 300 rpm/sec with an electric waterpump and with a better air inlet to the carburetor. At Comp Cams, during the Challenge, there was no air hat on the carburetor and the air was swirling around the dyno room like crazy. Also on this run we were using a different cam with a little less duration and a little more lift.
We made 18 dyno runs this session with various headers, tunes and loads on the engine and never made less than 743 HP and 13 runs over 770 HP.
The dyno is no longer a Childress dyno, but is owned and run by Aldon Miller of Performance Machine, Idaho Falls, ID. They just never could get the computer to change the heading.
Posted By: moderncylinder
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 03:27 PM
not trying to stir the pot but your motor at 7200 made 600 hp actual and corrected to 786,, 186 hp in correction? is that dyno at 6000-7000ft d.a.? is it possible to get that high?
Posted By: LaRoy Engines
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 05:48 PM
Stir away!
They really are pretty good heads. On Comp Cam's dyno, everyone had to run the RPM heads. The only engine to beat us was 48 ci bigger. He beat us by 1.1 horsepower, 724.5 HP to 723.4 HP.
The Performance Machine dyno sits at 4,700' elevation, so that D.A. is very possible.
The next time I get a big hp/ci motor together, I'll announce it. We'll stand and deliver that baby, heads up, anywhere.
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 06:15 PM
Does it say B.P of 25.02?
Posted By: LaRoy Engines
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 07:31 PM
Yes it does 25.02. The test run on the dyno from SuperFlow, before it was delivered to Childress, shows the pressure as 24.81 at SuperFlow on the day of the test. SuperFlow is about 5,280' elevation. The dyno program requires the Current Station Pressure. If we call the airport and ask for the pressure they alway give us something in the 28.blahblah until we ask for the Current Station Pressure. At the dyno in I.F. The lowest reading we've seen is 24.32 and the highest in a long while is 25.72.
Posted By: moderncylinder
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 08:00 PM
i wouldnt argue your numbers at 780 or whatever,, just maybe when you bring it down to a normal d.a. it wont do the same thing,, like the correction over compensates for it with how it will perform at the different conditions
Posted By: LaRoy Engines
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 08:26 PM
That is a possibility.
But normal D.A.? Gotta laugh at that one. Normal here is 6000+. You guys are the abnormal ones.
Comp is at 258' elevation and the correction factor should be much less. If the iron headed motor hadn't got toasted at Comp Cams this year (they don't run long if you forget the water), we could have taken it to the I.F. dyno and checked that theory out.
Tough to race dynos.
Posted By: deaks
Re: 2.19 INTAKE VALVE IN EDDY PERFORMERS??? - 11/10/11 10:58 PM
It's a real shame what happened to your motor, it's always nice to see these numbers translated to track figures, Brett Miller's car is turning some good times and sounds real sharp, it's quite amazing how much power some of these small blocks produce and with a lot less weight in the right place.
Mick