Edelbrock rpm head questions.....................

Posted By: Thumperdart

Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/10/11 04:45 PM

I`ve been re-working my heads again because of a bet I have that someone says there`s NO WAY I can go 9.78 by rebuilding my heap so other than the tech archive photos, does any one have any otther photos I can check out or another post I can view? After intake work I ended up w/a 220cc port and my ex. went to 76cc`s which seem WAY short of the 228-81cc`s I thaught I read. Just looking for every last hp that can be gained till I get my Victors. Thankxxx guys........

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/10/11 04:47 PM

Maybe open them up to MW and run a Indy intake

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/10/11 04:49 PM

I thaught about that but I`d like to save that energy and work for the Victors plus I need to keep it as is to make a statement and some $$$$.........

Posted By: BradH

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/10/11 04:54 PM

Are you doing any before & after flow bench comparisons, or are you just

on 'em until you think they "look right"?

FYI, I kind of bummed out somebody else on here when I tested their home-ported RPM heads and they didn't see nearly what they'd thought they would for all the work that had been done.

Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/10/11 05:04 PM

Dom, I agree with Brad.

If you dont have a flow bench, and know HOW to interpret the numbers, you could be doing more damage than good. Ebrocks have a pretty good port and chamber as is, BUT, they do respond totally different, or let me put it this way, they have TOTALLY different needs from the intake ports to the exhaust ports. There are several things that they really respond well to, and other modifications that you will just go backwards or at least simply waste your time.

What I am saying is they have spoecific areas where porting and valve jobs do a great deal, as well as some other changes. If you dont know where to look for that, then I'd say stay away from them, or have an experienced porter ( somoen who knows Ebrocks) mess with them. ( not even consdiering the camshaft likes and dislikes) .\
This is exactly while you'll see some real turd Ebrock combos, and some exceptional ones, that overachieve. It comes down to the porters knowledge, and the cam combo. I have quite a few Ebrock combos out there and have found this to be true.

My experience and

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/10/11 05:09 PM

I have a 1 barrel and a pile of nitrous if it will help....

Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/10/11 05:14 PM

Maybe you can let him borrow your 3/4 race cam and that extra set of pop ups ?...and throw some " fifties" on the back end with some Purple Hornies?...

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/10/11 05:18 PM

I hear what you guys are saying and I`m definately not "hacking" away at these things but more less going by the tech archive info and straightened out the head bolt buldge for a smooth transition into the bowl. I`m not asking these questions to see who I can send em to cos that`s not in the bet or Brian would have em now.........just trying to maximize my power and 9.98 ain`t too shabby considering the other issues I had. I WILL go 9.78 if it kills me...........

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/10/11 05:18 PM

Quote:

I have a 1 barrel and a pile of nitrous if it will help....

No nos..........YET!

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/10/11 06:17 PM

What's the skinny dom? Someone bet you can't get the 78 or what ??? You one of the best working combos on here for what it is IMO ... That's gonna be tough to pull that out! I'd say the best/easiest way to do it for the cash is tow your car to one them low elevation tracks across country somewhere

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/10/11 06:30 PM

I know it`s going to be tough but so am I and I love a challenge. The best track is probably Bakersfield where I went 9.98 so that may be where we end up. Time will tell..........

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/10/11 06:55 PM

Quote:

Maybe you can let him borrow your 3/4 race cam and that extra set of pop ups ?...and throw some " fifties" on the back end with some Purple Hornies?...

I was thinking splitfires and castrol syntec for starters

Posted By: viperblue72

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/10/11 08:31 PM

Can you lighten your car up some? 2 tenths is a lot at your level. Probably another 60 horsepower.

Posted By: bumps440

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/10/11 09:25 PM

Doesnt sound too hard to do. tell me your combination and I bet I can get some out of it.
on your video it seems like you short shifted it. I like RPMs and a well tuned system.
I bet I have more gear, more compression, more lift.

Posted By: dennismopar73

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 12:17 AM

thumper ,, a close friend had stock eddies rpm, 452, mp intake, 13-1 comp, 8" t/a 5000 stall , dana 430 geared,31 tall tire, dominator ,on alcohol,3250 # 73 duster, all steel car!
racer brown stx 21 car ran high 9.70 low 9.80 on the back bumper!
so it can be done without going to big heads and roller stuff
and spend alot less money

Posted By: dennismopar73

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 12:22 AM

there is not enough gain in rpms heads to justify any porting to them
the one example i gave is just one there are couple others who run rpm stock, and been low 9 with them with no work at all , so they will run as stock,

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 04:20 AM

Thankxxxx............my motor`s a 400/470 stroker w/a solid .680-.660 solid roller @ 12.1 comp. I did short shift but also had fuel delivery and charging issues so who knows. I know guys are running mid/high 9`s w/em and I hope to be one of those guys soon. The porting can`t hurt anything and I`d bet it will help considering I left a lot on the table the first time around.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 04:23 AM

Quote:

Can you lighten your car up some? 2 tenths is a lot at your level. Probably another 60 horsepower.

I probably could by going w/glass doors and deck lid and lexan but it`s a street car first that I race every so often.

Posted By: deaks

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 03:08 PM

About 40 hp needed, more comp would help that cam, lose some weight.
I think you're car runs well, i would like to be where you are.
Prosports car was max wedge port, tunnel ram and a bit lighter than yours and his has gone 9.77.
Mick

Posted By: viperblue72

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 03:43 PM

A good tunnel ram??? Seems that could gain a few tenths possibly.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 03:44 PM

Without knowing before and after flow numbers on your heads its hard to know were you stand right now. Same with the intake manifold. You wouldn't believe what is available with a little porting on the intake but to do it the proper way (bolting it to the head on the flow bench) is very time consuming but well worth the effort. It is very common to have a head flowing 300cfm knocked down to 260 or worse because of it.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 03:45 PM

Bob was 100lbs heavier and ran the Indy single 4 intake(just sayin) Bob was also 500ci

Posted By: 540challenger

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 03:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Can you lighten your car up some? 2 tenths is a lot at your level. Probably another 60 horsepower.

I probably could by going w/glass doors and deck lid and lexan but it`s a street car first that I race every so often.

What about going with an aftermarket front end to save some weight. My alterkation is great i racked up over 1000 street miles in just 3 months and love it. Not cheap but alot of weight loss and makes working on the car that much easier.

Posted By: deaks

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 03:56 PM

The car before that one, dart sport 451.
Mick

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 05:14 PM

More good points..............taking out my second batt. and pass. seat alone would net me about 70lbs.

and a lightened ft. end would be awesome but the funds are low along w/work so, I`m trying to go w/what I have. I can have the heads flowed at Pettis and work the intake myself if need be and a t-ram has been on my mind for a while also but that 9.78 needs to be the same combo or all bets are off. Thankxxx..........

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 06:02 PM

You don't run radials do you?

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 06:32 PM

No, I`m running the 29x13.5 qtp`s...........So, no one has any photos or another site I can check out?

Posted By: BradH

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 07:35 PM

Quote:

... other than the tech archive photos, does any one have any otther photos I can check out or another post I can view?

Where are the Tech Archive pics? I have some stuff that Dwayne Porter posted years ago on E heads, but don't know if they're the same pics.

Here's one (attached)...

Attached picture 6866473-EdelbrockIntakesported.jpg

Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 07:54 PM

Quote:

that 9.78 needs to be the same combo or all bets are off. Thankxxx..........

When the race ....Good luck

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 08:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

... other than the tech archive photos, does any one have any otther photos I can check out or another post I can view?

Where are the Tech Archive pics? I have some stuff that Dwayne Porter posted years ago on E heads, but don't know if they're the same pics.

Here's one (attached)...

Those are the photos I was refering to.........Thankxxx............

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 08:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

that 9.78 needs to be the same combo or all bets are off. Thankxxx..........

When the race ....Good luck

No race just me gettin a 9.78 slip then lots of

`s to follow.

Posted By: bumps440

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 09:48 PM

tell me more about what you have ?
street car? 12 to 1? More would help power, but!! what do you run for gas?
what ratio rockers?
definately would help with more ratio.
what gear and RPM at the stripe?
what Dia headers and how long and also collectors? dia and length?

tuning helps a lot more than most people think.
its called volumetric efficiency.
when it all gets in its tuned lengths, its like a freight train at the big end

and yes a bit of weight out will always help.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 10:01 PM

Quote:

tell me more about what you have ?
street car? 12 to 1? More would help power, but!! what do you run for gas?
what ratio rockers?
definately would help with more ratio.
what gear and RPM at the stripe?
what Dia headers and how long and also collectors? dia and length?

tuning helps a lot more than most people think.
its called volumetric efficiency.
when it all gets in its tuned lengths, its like a freight train at the big end

and yes a bit of weight out will always help.

Street car 12.1 comp. 50/50 mix of 91/110 trick. 1.5 harland sharp rockers,2" primary tube fenderwell headers and shift bet 7000-7200 average and trap about 6800-7000+. The freshen, better charging and a proper fuel system will get me there OR very close.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 10:36 PM

dom my buddies SBC is right about the same increments as yours in the 1/8th but he is going 134 and change in the back half and his best is an 82 so far on his new combo(on motor/drag radials)! I think it's gonna be a good challenge for ya and hope ya do it

Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 11:04 PM

Here's all the pics I took of when Scott did My Eddy heads

They ended up flowing 319.5 @ 600 and 700 lift.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/11/11 11:45 PM

Quote:

dom my buddies SBC is right about the same increments as yours in the 1/8th but he is going 134 and change in the back half and his best is an 82 so far on his new combo(on motor/drag radials)! I think it's gonna be a good challenge for ya and hope ya do it

After my 9.98 I went to Fontana after new valve springs and went a best there of 10.03@ 134+ but still had fuel issues. It will be a challenge and that`s what makes a competator like myself thrive.

Thankxxx for the photos Bill..........man, he totally cleaned out the exhaust....

Do you have any port opening and other dimensions Bill?

Posted By: bumps440

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/12/11 12:14 AM

You are right in the ball park for shift points and RPMs for that size motor. I shift at 7000-7200 and trap at 7500 with a 446 ( shows no signs of laying over)
more compression would help, but I dont recommed it if you will street it a lot. I would definately go with Harland sharp 1.6s, could net you around 25-30 HP
have you experimented with valve lash changes?
what carb? What manifold?
spacers?
2" is the right header, but I would imagine it is a bit too long being fenderwells. would want 32-33" long with 3.5 collector around 16-18 "

YOU are pretty close to maxed out there, but there is ALWAYS more to be found.
look at the suggestions and see what you could do.

Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/12/11 12:20 AM

Not off the top of my head.

I'll look at my notes when I get home tonight and see if I can dig up any more info

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/12/11 12:45 AM

Quote:

You are right in the ball park for shift points and RPMs for that size motor. I shift at 7000-7200 and trap at 7500 with a 446 ( shows no signs of laying over)
more compression would help, but I dont recommed it if you will street it a lot. I would definately go with Harland sharp 1.6s, could net you around 25-30 HP
have you experimented with valve lash changes?
what carb? What manifold?
spacers?
2" is the right header, but I would imagine it is a bit too long being fenderwells. would want 32-33" long with 3.5 collector around 16-18 "

YOU are pretty close to maxed out there, but there is ALWAYS more to be found.
look at the suggestions and see what you could do.

I agree about a better header but not yet. I have tried different lash settings but not at the track. 1050 dommy w/an adapter and a 1/2" wood four hole spacer on top of a Victor intake w/a bit of plenum work.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/12/11 12:47 AM

Thankxxx Bill..........mostly interested in p-rod pinch width and ex. opening #`s.

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/12/11 01:08 AM

Lower the floor at the pushrod pinch and work it into the short turn...but be carefull or you'll be in H2O!
I'll bet there is at least 20HP in your heads if not more from better porting. Another 10HP with a 2.18 valve.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/12/11 01:13 AM

Thankxxx Brian.........any photos? You would of got my heads but I`m gonna do everything to win this bet w/just my dumb a$$ only doin the work.

Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/12/11 01:55 AM

Sorry Dom, I can't find any of my build sheets.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/12/11 02:13 AM

No problem........maybe Scott can shoot those #`s to ya!

I`m in no hurry and still waiting on my block so I`m leaving no rock unturned on this thing and will milk every bit of power I can find.

Posted By: bumps440

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/12/11 03:36 AM

I personally have NEVER had good luck with a 4 hole spacer.
I have about 1.5 inches of open spacer on mine.( tarantula) you have enough carb there. so IMO the best bet would be 1.6 rockers. you would most likely gain even if you used 1.6 only on the intake. and tightened up the exhaust lash a bit.
try some lash changes at the track.
Good luck to you .
cant suggest anything else that doesnt involve a lot of money (porting and bigger valves)

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/12/11 03:40 AM

Thankxxx............the four hole is only a 1/2" and more less there to keep the carb`s guts from falling in the motor but I must say my afr`s sure cleaned up w/it.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/12/11 03:58 AM

Going with a bigger (Ferrea)intake valve and sizing the throat at 88-90 percent would defiantly increase performance. 8 intake valves would cost about 150.00 on ebay or from one of our members. Do not get greedy on the throat sizing as it will kill the flow.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/12/11 05:03 AM

Thankxxx.............I may go to bigger intakes but we`ll soon see.

Posted By: 493_DART

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/12/11 08:57 AM

dont know if this helps Dom---

my buddy has been 9.2x or so with RPMs .

this was a couple years ago but off the top of me head..

512"
620 lift roller
ported Rpm heads
72 Cuda --weight = 2800 or so ??
on race gas / dominator

I say try to shave some weight off the car and good luck

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/12/11 03:41 PM

Man that`s haulin............makes me want to throw in the towel.

Not...........after looking at my notes, my car`s right at 3200 w/me and about 10 gallons of gas so 2800lbs would put me REAL close to the mid 9`s depending on what the fuel system, charging problems and the freshen gives me...........we`ll see.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/13/11 03:42 AM

So, does anyone have a part number for some 2.18 or 2.19 intake valves that are the lengths of the e-head valves? George found some but only in 3/8`s that are the same length. Thankxxx........

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/13/11 04:25 AM

Just did a quick check and I am not sure this would work but check these out. http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/produ...mp;partid=10246

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/13/11 04:31 AM

Thankxxxx John...........

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/13/11 04:35 AM

Quote:

Thankxxxx John...........

Your welcome.

Posted By: tboomer

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/13/11 02:58 PM

Pretty good thread,Thumpman! I will be watching this as I may also have to use what I already have!!

Posted By: BradH

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/13/11 04:45 PM

Have you tried locating any pics of MCH's CNC-ported Edelbrocks or Stealth heads to get a feel for what Jeff does? Just a thought...

Posted By: BradH

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/13/11 04:55 PM

Quote:

Just did a quick check and I am not sure this would work but check these out. http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/produ...mp;partid=10246

That'll work, but it's not as nice a valve as the original stuff that Edelbrock uses.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/13/11 05:18 PM

Quote:

Have you tried locating any pics of MCH's CNC-ported Edelbrocks or Stealth heads to get a feel for what Jeff does? Just a thought...

No I havn`t but I`ll look em up. I`m going to a 2.19 intake valve and the necessary bowl work to take advantage of it so, we`ll soon see.

Posted By: larry890

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/13/11 05:46 PM

my 400-451 w/rpms have been 9.76@135.6 in 3640lbs b-body. i just mch cnc port, then opened the ports to mw and added a indy intake.

Posted By: BradH

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/13/11 05:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Have you tried locating any pics of MCH's CNC-ported Edelbrocks or Stealth heads to get a feel for what Jeff does? Just a thought...

No I havn`t but I`ll look em up. I`m going to a 2.19 intake valve and the necessary bowl work to take advantage of it so, we`ll soon see.

FWIW, going to a bigger valve w/o the rest of the port being able to support it won't show much gains. I did the 2.19" upgrade on a set of nicely ported OEM iron castings flowing 270+ and it only picked up maybe 3-4 cfm in the mid lifts w/o any peak gains to speak of.

Posted By: deaks

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/13/11 06:12 PM

Quote:

my 400-451 w/rpms have been [Email]9.76@135.6[/Email] in 3640lbs b-body. i just mch cnc port, then opened the ports to mw and added a indy intake.

What extra gains did you get from the max wedge port and intake.
Mick

Posted By: BradH

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/13/11 06:19 PM

Quote:

Have you tried locating any pics of MCH's CNC-ported Edelbrocks or Stealth heads to get a feel for what Jeff does? Just a thought...

Looky at what I found:

Posted By: larry890

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/13/11 06:33 PM

The standard port intake didnt have enough volume so instead of porting a standard intake, i bought the indy w/mw ports and opened the heads up. I didnt flow any of it on a bench. I switched to a roller cam it was part of the upgrade.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Edelbrock rpm head questions..................... - 10/13/11 06:40 PM

Nice photo............thankxxx.