Moparts
rods too wide???
Posted By: 71440dart
rods too wide??? - 09/25/11 01:37 AM
i bought a 505 stroker from Hughes Engines, 4.25 stroke, and started final assembly today. the problem is i cannot put two rods on the same crank journal because they dont fit, they are chevy journals and measure like this- crank journal, 2.01, rods are 1.018 each. stock chevy rods measure .995 with the crank journal measuring 2.0. anyone ever run into this problem? i am going to call Hughes Engines Monday just wondering if anyone has ever had this problem. Thanks guys.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/25/11 01:40 AM
Do they fit between the fillet but not down completely on the journal? If so look at the bearings & rods closely, one side is chamfered for clearance...
Posted By: 71440dart
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/25/11 01:42 AM
Quote:
Do they fit between the fillet but not down completely on the journal? If so look at the bearings & rods closely, one side is chamfered for clearance...
forgot to put that but yes i checked it, i also tried to put two caps on without the rods, but to no avail.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/25/11 01:48 AM
Quote:
i bought a 505 stroker from Hughes Engines, 4.25 stroke, and started final assembly today. the problem is i cannot put two rods on the same crank journal because they dont fit, they are chevy journals and measure like this- crank journal, 2.01, rods are 1.018 each. stock chevy rods measure .995 with the crank journal measuring 2.0. anyone ever run into this problem? i am going to call Hughes Engines Monday just wondering if anyone has ever had this problem. Thanks guys.
If they cant even fit in the throw area(a pair of
rods) you can have the rods surface ground(I did
that 1 time on my small block) I had to take .013
off of the inside wall of each rod... or have the
crank cut wider(I JUST had this done on my 4" crank...
it was cut for chevy dia but he screwed up and didnt
cut the width... he did after I brought it back
Posted By: 71440dart
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/25/11 01:55 AM
if i do the rods i guess they have to be rebalanced? if i do the crank it would have to be nitrated and balanced again right? either way im not very happy with the parts that were supposed to be bolted in without any problems, hopefully it will all be worth it if i ever finish it. Thanks Mr. P body
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/25/11 02:04 AM
Quote:
if i do the rods i guess they have to be rebalanced? if i do the crank it would have to be nitrated and balanced again right? either way im not very happy with the parts that were supposed to be bolted in without any problems, hopefully it will all be worth it if i ever finish it. Thanks Mr. P body
Call up Hughes and tell them to replace the crank...
on their dime
Posted By: 71440dart
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/25/11 02:06 AM
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Quote:
if i do the rods i guess they have to be rebalanced? if i do the crank it would have to be nitrated and balanced again right? either way im not very happy with the parts that were supposed to be bolted in without any problems, hopefully it will all be worth it if i ever finish it. Thanks Mr. P body
Call up Hughes and tell them to replace the crank...
on their dime
i certainly expect them to do something, ive seen 505s with 4.25 cranks on there site for quite a while, apparently im the first person to try to put one together with this crank/rod combo.
Posted By: Deepockets
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/25/11 02:36 AM
went through all that when i finished up my 528 ci. earlier this year. i used the callies crankshaft and that measured the same as yours. i also ordered from them at the same time there compstar h-beam rods. there rods would have given me .030 side clearance as they came in at .990. although that is accepable by many, it's not want i wanted. i returned them. ( i just looked at there site and no longer see the 7.100 lenght any more.) suprisingly that 440 source reconizes this and makes there rods for chevy journal .994 width. that would have given me .022 side clearance. i chose to buy the eagle rods that had the L-19 bolts and they came in at 1.007. i did as Mr. pea Body had said and i surface ground the inner surfaces of the rods to .994 and ended up with .022 clearance. also in my case i mocked the engine up and checked everything prior to assembly, so every thing was ballanced after i was happy with all. good luck.
You have Mopar width rods for a Chevy journal. Are these K1 rods or Eagles perhaps? There is a Chevy width rod, and a Mopar width rod, that both could be used on a Chevy journal, but the crank has to have the appropriate width.
Posted By: 71440dart
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/25/11 02:48 AM
they are indeed K1 rods Competitionwedge.
i had hughes balance it before they shipped it.
Posted By: 71440dart
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 02:20 PM
i spoke with Craig yesterday at hughes, he told me to box the rods up and they would send a return slip and have them picked up and correct the problem by cutting the sides. i asked about the balance and he told me it would not make a big difference. however this doesnt make sense to me. what do you guys think?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 02:35 PM
Quote:
i spoke with Craig yesterday at hughes, he told me to box the rods up and they would send a return slip and have them picked up and correct the problem by cutting the sides. i asked about the balance and he told me it would not make a big difference. however this doesnt make sense to me. what do you guys think?
To me thats the wrong way to do it... if you go with
another set of chevy rods you would need to have those
cut down... I would have the crank widened... and yes
the balance would be off... I dont know how much
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 02:39 PM
Quote:
Quote:
if i do the rods i guess they have to be rebalanced? if i do the crank it would have to be nitrated and balanced again right? either way im not very happy with the parts that were supposed to be bolted in without any problems, hopefully it will all be worth it if i ever finish it. Thanks Mr. P body
Call up Hughes and tell them to replace the crank...
on their dime
I doubt he wants to go down that road, He will basically be made out as the moron, and made to feel like a school boy playing with a 5 hp briggs.
Probbly just have to have the rods narrowed, and rebalance things.
Kasey
Posted By: 71440dart
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 02:58 PM
so say something happens and i need rods down the road, the crank journal is too wide for a standard width chevy rod, and not wide enough for a mopar width rod with chevy journal. so this is a total disaster. so really Mr. P body is correct or i need a new crank.
we always cut rods to get a final rod-rod clearance dimension,,
no,, absolutely no,,, no,, no,, you will not have to rebalance it,, cutting .020 off a big end will take about 1-2 grams off,, which will change the bobweight 2-4 grams..
do you rebalance your motor when you run 5-20 oil as compared to 20-50 oil,,, thats prob bout the same difference
Posted By: 71440dart
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 03:06 PM
Quote:
we always cut rods to get a final rod-rod clearance dimension,,
no,, absolutely no,,, no,, no,, you will not have to rebalance it,, cutting .020 off a big end will take about 1-2 grams off,, which will change the bobweight 2-4 grams..
do you rebalance your motor when you run 5-20 oil as compared to 20-50 oil,,, thats prob bout the same difference
no, but i dont pay 350 dollars to change my oil weight either. i asked because i didnt know.
off topic: does a quart of 20-50 weigh the same as 5-20?
Posted By: dannysbee
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 03:44 PM
He is trying to help you.
The oil weighs the same but because of the thicker viscosity there will be a larger volume of oil on the part.
Posted By: moparlifer
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 03:58 PM
Funny because they advertise no hassle - NO MACHINING stroker kits!!!!
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 04:08 PM
Quote:
He is trying to help you.
The oil weighs the same but because of the thicker viscosity there will be a larger volume of oil on the part.
Until you get the oil hot 
Posted By: dannysbee
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 04:34 PM
So at the start of the run it will be balanced and at the end of the run it will be slightly under balanced. May be a new speed secret.
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 06:17 PM
Quote:
Quote:
we always cut rods to get a final rod-rod clearance dimension,,
no,, absolutely no,,, no,, no,, you will not have to rebalance it,, cutting .020 off a big end will take about 1-2 grams off,, which will change the bobweight 2-4 grams..
do you rebalance your motor when you run 5-20 oil as compared to 20-50 oil,,, thats prob bout the same difference
no, but i dont pay 350 dollars to change my oil weight either. i asked because i didnt know.
off topic: does a quart of 20-50 weigh the same as 5-20?
I suppose you remove your pistons after every 10 runs and scrape off the deposits to make sure its still "in balance" ?
Nothing wrong with being anal... just don't go overboard. 
Posted By: 71440dart
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 06:33 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
we always cut rods to get a final rod-rod clearance dimension,,
no,, absolutely no,,, no,, no,, you will not have to rebalance it,, cutting .020 off a big end will take about 1-2 grams off,, which will change the bobweight 2-4 grams..
do you rebalance your motor when you run 5-20 oil as compared to 20-50 oil,,, thats prob bout the same difference
no, but i dont pay 350 dollars to change my oil weight either. i asked because i didnt know.
off topic: does a quart of 20-50 weigh the same as 5-20?
I suppose you remove your pistons after every 10 runs and scrape off the deposits to make sure its still "in balance" ?
Nothing wrong with being anal... just don't go overboard.
im not trying to be anal or difficult i just want what i paid for is all, i dont know so thats why i asked.
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
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we always cut rods to get a final rod-rod clearance dimension,,
no,, absolutely no,,, no,, no,, you will not have to rebalance it,, cutting .020 off a big end will take about 1-2 grams off,, which will change the bobweight 2-4 grams..
do you rebalance your motor when you run 5-20 oil as compared to 20-50 oil,,, thats prob bout the same difference
no, but i dont pay 350 dollars to change my oil weight either. i asked because i didnt know.
off topic: does a quart of 20-50 weigh the same as 5-20?
I suppose you remove your pistons after every 10 runs and scrape off the deposits to make sure its still "in balance" ?
Nothing wrong with being anal... just don't go overboard.
im not trying to be anal or difficult i just want what i paid for is all, i dont know so thats why i asked.
No big deal. I'm assuming you don't know who Jeff is. End result is... Send it all back and hopefully they will set you up properly. Or, clean the rods up and that will work too. The result will be the same, do what makes you sleep well.
Posted By: donnie w
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 07:31 PM
I bought a 505 kit from them over a year ago and had the same problem and when I called and told them the rods were chrysler width and the crank was chevy width they didn't think I knew what I was talking about and said they would have to do some checking and call me back. They called back and said I was right and to send the rods back and they would cut the width to chevy size. The main reason I bought the kit from them was to avoid this kind of problem. Im thinkin they've only sold two of these kits in over a year or they would have corrected this problem.
Posted By: 71440dart
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 08:29 PM
i did call back and was told i needed to talk to dave about the balance, he would call me back, waited 5 hours and called and dave is gone for the day.
and Donniew you must have had the first one cause they knew exactly what i was talking about when i called them.
have them cut the rods,,, but you dont have to rebalance
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 09:11 PM
Quote:
have them cut the rods,,, but you dont have to rebalance
So your saying Jeff if I buy the crank from them for
chevy rods I have to have my rods cut... BS... they
should have cut the crank for chevy rods(dia and width)...
I JUST went though this... the guy that cut my crank
for chevy rods did the dia but forgot the width... I
took it back to him and he cut the width(no charge)
and said he was sorry for the screw up
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 10:09 PM
Quote:
I bought a 505 kit from them over a year ago and had the same problem and when I called and told them the rods were chrysler width and the crank was chevy width they didn't think I knew what I was talking about and said they would have to do some checking and call me back. They called back and said I was right and to send the rods back and they would cut the width to chevy size. The main reason I bought the kit from them was to avoid this kind of problem. Im thinkin they've only sold two of these kits in over a year or they would have corrected this problem.
It really bothers me that they argue, or belittle you and make you feel like the moron, when THEIR "kit" should be checked for this kind og thing. This problem tells me that they have never mocked the "kit" up at all, and just threw it together on paper. I can make a 550ci small block on paper too, but its making it fit in real life thats the issue.
I guess its better to deal with accual engine shops that a speed shop. Dave is getting beaten up here lately, and makes my scared to deal with them ever again.
Kasey
of course they should make it right,,, it should come out of the box ready to go... but it didnt... so fix it and move on
the question was to rebalance,, no you dont need to do that
i order rods big so i can cut them,,,,, i can do that so i dont mind...
Posted By: dartman366
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 10:56 PM
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I bought a 505 kit from them over a year ago and had the same problem and when I called and told them the rods were chrysler width and the crank was chevy width they didn't think I knew what I was talking about and said they would have to do some checking and call me back. They called back and said I was right and to send the rods back and they would cut the width to chevy size. The main reason I bought the kit from them was to avoid this kind of problem. Im thinkin they've only sold two of these kits in over a year or they would have corrected this problem.
It really bothers me that they argue, or belittle you and make you feel like the moron, when THEIR "kit" should be checked for this kind og thing. This problem tells me that they have never mocked the "kit" up at all, and just threw it together on paper. I can make a 550ci small block on paper too, but its making it fit in real life thats the issue.
I guess its better to deal with accual engine shops that a speed shop. Dave is getting beaten up here lately, and makes my scared to deal with them ever again.
Kasey
nothing wrong with grinding the rod width, you can acctually set your clearance where you want for better oil controll, to me that is better than being too wide (clearance) and have no way to correct it, I don't see this problem as a big deal, if you need a replacement rod then just have the new one ground to the same width as the old one.
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/27/11 11:21 PM
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I bought a 505 kit from them over a year ago and had the same problem and when I called and told them the rods were chrysler width and the crank was chevy width they didn't think I knew what I was talking about and said they would have to do some checking and call me back. They called back and said I was right and to send the rods back and they would cut the width to chevy size. The main reason I bought the kit from them was to avoid this kind of problem. Im thinkin they've only sold two of these kits in over a year or they would have corrected this problem.
It really bothers me that they argue, or belittle you and make you feel like the moron, when THEIR "kit" should be checked for this kind og thing. This problem tells me that they have never mocked the "kit" up at all, and just threw it together on paper. I can make a 550ci small block on paper too, but its making it fit in real life thats the issue.
I guess its better to deal with accual engine shops that a speed shop. Dave is getting beaten up here lately, and makes my scared to deal with them ever again.
Kasey
nothing wrong with grinding the rod width, you can acctually set your clearance where you want for better oil controll, to me that is better than being too wide (clearance) and have no way to correct it, I don't see this problem as a big deal, if you need a replacement rod then just have the new one ground to the same width as the old one.
Dartman, I agree, but my point was more related to how Hughes kits are NOT out of the box ready. I had a similar issue with mu A engine girdle, had to clearance the crap out of it. I do understand that everything should be checked for clearance and inspected before you run it, but how are you going to do that when you cant even get the rods on the crank. You can mic the rods and crank, but how about side clearance, or deck clearance, you cant.
Kasey
Posted By: dartman366
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/28/11 12:16 AM
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Quote:
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I bought a 505 kit from them over a year ago and had the same problem and when I called and told them the rods were chrysler width and the crank was chevy width they didn't think I knew what I was talking about and said they would have to do some checking and call me back. They called back and said I was right and to send the rods back and they would cut the width to chevy size. The main reason I bought the kit from them was to avoid this kind of problem. Im thinkin they've only sold two of these kits in over a year or they would have corrected this problem.
It really bothers me that they argue, or belittle you and make you feel like the moron, when THEIR "kit" should be checked for this kind og thing. This problem tells me that they have never mocked the "kit" up at all, and just threw it together on paper. I can make a 550ci small block on paper too, but its making it fit in real life thats the issue.
I guess its better to deal with accual engine shops that a speed shop. Dave is getting beaten up here lately, and makes my scared to deal with them ever again.
Kasey
nothing wrong with grinding the rod width, you can acctually set your clearance where you want for better oil controll, to me that is better than being too wide (clearance) and have no way to correct it, I don't see this problem as a big deal, if you need a replacement rod then just have the new one ground to the same width as the old one.
Dartman, I agree, but my point was more related to how Hughes kits are NOT out of the box ready. I had a similar issue with mu A engine girdle, had to clearance the crap out of it. I do understand that everything should be checked for clearance and inspected before you run it, but how are you going to do that when you cant even get the rods on the crank. You can mic the rods and crank, but how about side clearance, or deck clearance, you cant.
Kasey
Kasey you can mic the journal width and measure the width of the pair of rod's for that journal and get a real close approximation of how much you need to remove, I am not saying the OP need's to just let it go cause it should of been correct in the first place,,I am saying that it is easily fixable, and mostly a inconvienience,sometimes that is worse than the repair. 
I also don't put a lot of faith in the idea of ready to run OOTB, I had some front suspension part's that claimed bolt on, no mod's required,, yeah right,, 
had to notch the K frame to install and have room to function.
Posted By: emarine01
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/28/11 12:47 AM
maybe I am just not lucky... but everything I do needs to be re machined
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/28/11 01:46 AM
Quote:
You have Mopar width rods .
That is correct. Those rods are made for a Mopar crank journal that was ground down to BB Chevy diameter. Too wide for a crank made for proper width BB Chevy rods (+.100, +.200, etc).
Posted By: Crizila
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/28/11 04:59 AM
Quote:
we always cut rods to get a final rod-rod clearance dimension,,
no,, absolutely no,,, no,, no,, you will not have to rebalance it,, cutting .020 off a big end will take about 1-2 grams off,, which will change the bobweight 2-4 grams..
do you rebalance your motor when you run 5-20 oil as compared to 20-50 oil,,, thats prob bout the same difference
Yep, no sweat on the balance issue. Sounds like they ( Hughes) is correcting their error, so - lettem do it and move on.
Posted By: 71440dart
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/28/11 03:38 PM
just to make sure i understand this correctly. i was told that it will be 4-5 grams per rod and all the rods will be weight matched when done. so if you remove 4 grams per rod the balance is going to be the exact same as it is right now?
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: rods too wide??? - 09/29/11 07:24 PM
I would suggest doing some regooglesearch and learn a bit more about balancing. It comes down to a tolerance / and the further out from center, the more effect (rotational mass). What you're doing is closer to axis.
Top engine builders can give you free advise on this.
Oops too late, they already did.
