Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
STROKER KITS - 09/09/11 10:05 PM
When buying a stroker kit,would you buy it unbalanced and have a machine shop balance it or buy it balanced??
STROKER KITS
Posted By: StrokerAspen
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/09/11 10:11 PM
Yup!
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/09/11 10:13 PM
From your location, close to Dan at performance machine, I would call Dan, and have him price ya a balanced rotating assy. He did mine, K1 crank, Diamond pistons, and I had the Rods, Childs track master rods.
I dont believe he balancedmine, but I ordered a 440 rotation assy from him, and it came balanced, and quit perfect.
Dan is the man for sure. Id like to know how many states have had work done by Dan.
Thanks for everything everytime Dan!!
kasey
I dont believe he balancedmine, but I ordered a 440 rotation assy from him, and it came balanced, and quit perfect.
Dan is the man for sure. Id like to know how many states have had work done by Dan.
Thanks for everything everytime Dan!!
kasey
Posted By: Leon441
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/09/11 10:15 PM
It just depends on who does the best job.
Like... Some shops drill into the counterweight and then just weld the mallory in. While better shops will drill across the counterweight and press the weight in. Some shops will just keep drilling holes when the crank is built for a heavier bob weight. Better shops will cut the counterweights down to start with making the crank lighter.
Some things just take more time. Some shops are lazy.
You choose.
Leon
Like... Some shops drill into the counterweight and then just weld the mallory in. While better shops will drill across the counterweight and press the weight in. Some shops will just keep drilling holes when the crank is built for a heavier bob weight. Better shops will cut the counterweights down to start with making the crank lighter.
Some things just take more time. Some shops are lazy.
You choose.
Leon
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/09/11 10:19 PM
Thanks Kasey and Leon.....VERY GOOD INFO you gave me Leon!!!!!
Posted By: johnzgarage
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/09/11 10:27 PM
Are you kidding me ???? Parts people sell parts......would you want to trust the word of a guy selling you a part and telling you its balanced ???? I would (and I do) take all my parts as a total assembly (rotating mass) and have it balanced.........why take a chance ??????
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/09/11 10:29 PM
Quote:
It just depends on who does the best job.
Like... Some shops drill into the counterweight and then just weld the mallory in. While better shops will drill across the counterweight and press the weight in. Some shops will just keep drilling holes when the crank is built for a heavier bob weight. Better shops will cut the counterweights down to start with making the crank lighter.
Some things just take more time. Some shops are lazy.
You choose.
Leon
I have seen and ran both types 
Always check your shops work, if you can 
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/09/11 10:30 PM
Quote:
Are you kidding me ???? Parts people sell parts......would you want to trust the word of a guy selling you a part and telling you its balanced ???? I would (and I do) take all my parts as a total assembly (rotating mass) and have it balanced.........why take a chance ??????
If your buying from a known machine shop,you wouldnt take their word??? Ohio Crankshaft,Muscle Motors,Mancini,etc??
Posted By: Guitar Jones
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/09/11 10:39 PM
Mike, talk to Vic Ferra over at Brevard Cylinder Head. Mopar guys and he has great equipment. I bought my crank from BPE because I already had rods but bought the pistons and had all the machine work done by Vic. They are in Cocoa.
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/09/11 10:43 PM
Yes Mancini, Yes Muscle machines, Yes OHIO, others, NO! Id never trust eagle, or say scat, id check their stuff.
Posted By: johnzgarage
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/09/11 10:43 PM
Quote:Quote:
Are you kidding me ???? Parts people sell parts......would you want to trust the word of a guy selling you a part and telling you its balanced ???? I would (and I do) take all my parts as a total assembly (rotating mass) and have it balanced.........why take a chance ??????
If your buying from a known machine shop,you wouldnt take their word??? Ohio Crankshaft,Muscle Motors,Mancini,etc??
I dont have anything against those shops, but a simple thing as having it balanced , should be checked. Strange things can happen. I had one engine I had balanced four times because of changes made in the assembly.
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/09/11 11:01 PM
Quote:
From your location, close to Dan at performance machine, I would call Dan, and have him price ya a balanced rotating assy. He did mine, K1 crank, Diamond pistons, and I had the Rods, Childs track master rods.
I dont believe he balancedmine, but I ordered a 440 rotation assy from him, and it came balanced, and quit perfect.
Dan is the man for sure. Id like to know how many states have had work done by Dan.
Thanks for everything everytime Dan!!
kasey
Kasey, thank you for the kind words. we never solicit it, but it's always nice to hear that kind of feedback from our customers.
by the way, at least 30 states and 5 foreign country's so far.
i also agree with what Leon said. we see all kinds of shortcuts other shops take, from swiss cheese balancing to heavy metal welded in from the outside of the counterweight.
Mike, if there's something we can help you with just let me know.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/09/11 11:02 PM
Problem is.... MOST of us dont have balancing equipment
so your going to end up taking someones word on it...
so who do you trust the most... like Leon said a good
shop will put some time into it(but it cost)... I
like to turn them down then add a bit of weight closer
into the mains(pressed in fore and aft in the counters
so they dont just spit it out)... I prefer a local
shop
EDIT
I have a local shop that I happen to like and he
does some nice work for me
so your going to end up taking someones word on it...
so who do you trust the most... like Leon said a good
shop will put some time into it(but it cost)... I
like to turn them down then add a bit of weight closer
into the mains(pressed in fore and aft in the counters
so they dont just spit it out)... I prefer a local
shop
EDIT
I have a local shop that I happen to like and he
does some nice work for me
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/09/11 11:05 PM
Dan...ill be sending you a PM.
Posted By: earthmover
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/10/11 12:37 AM
Call dan .he didn't pay me to say that either lol 
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/10/11 01:47 AM
PM sent to Dan.
Posted By: 471Magnum
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/10/11 02:48 PM
I paid $195 to have my stroker assembly balanced. Most kits I've seen cost about $175 more if you buy them balanced.
$20 is well worth it if (like in my case) you have a trusted shop with which you are familiar do the balancing.
$20 is well worth it if (like in my case) you have a trusted shop with which you are familiar do the balancing.
Posted By: dragram440
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/10/11 03:10 PM
I have a eagle kit in my car and I bought it already balanced. It came with a balance sheet with hand written numbers on it. I personally looked at it quick but dont really know what the numbers mean. It seems to be working good. There was definately some machine work to be done befor assembly but I believe the machine shop left the balance alone. I did the final assembly and its still together!
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/10/11 04:11 PM
Mike,
I replied to your PM re: strokers...I'd only add that you can;t go wrong going to Dan Costello and following his advice to a Tee. He did a 4.15" to 4.30" offset grind and main turn down for my 517B off an Old MP 4340 crank for me and the machine work was flawless and turns in the block like it was on roller bearings. In addition to that he called me and asked in advance how I wanted the bearing clearances set and the job was delivered on time and for the very fair price he promised.
A general comment on Strokers is that any time you up the cubes into a stock block you're 'using up some durability 'safety margin' by subjecting the block to piston velocities and side loading well beyond anything it was originally intended to see. Expert block prep is another key to reliability and if there is one
"mistake" I see a lot of guys make is that they chase too much RPM in their combos rather than simply tune their chassis to ET on the abundant excesses of torque. Just because you can doesn't always mean you should and raising the torque peaks and shift points too high usually doesn't net enough of a real and consistent ET gain to offset all the higher stresses and longevity compromises many bracket racers make to get them.
I replied to your PM re: strokers...I'd only add that you can;t go wrong going to Dan Costello and following his advice to a Tee. He did a 4.15" to 4.30" offset grind and main turn down for my 517B off an Old MP 4340 crank for me and the machine work was flawless and turns in the block like it was on roller bearings. In addition to that he called me and asked in advance how I wanted the bearing clearances set and the job was delivered on time and for the very fair price he promised.
A general comment on Strokers is that any time you up the cubes into a stock block you're 'using up some durability 'safety margin' by subjecting the block to piston velocities and side loading well beyond anything it was originally intended to see. Expert block prep is another key to reliability and if there is one
"mistake" I see a lot of guys make is that they chase too much RPM in their combos rather than simply tune their chassis to ET on the abundant excesses of torque. Just because you can doesn't always mean you should and raising the torque peaks and shift points too high usually doesn't net enough of a real and consistent ET gain to offset all the higher stresses and longevity compromises many bracket racers make to get them.
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/10/11 06:02 PM
While most well known shops will do a good job, I got burnt by two well known ones. The crank got thrown in a box and shipped without it being touched. Cost me over $250 to fix. The second time I ordered something from a long ways away, a machining step was skipped. So due to two problems out of two, never again. I want to be able to put it in the truck and go talk to them in person.
Posted By: dragram440
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/10/11 07:36 PM
Quote:
While most well known shops will do a good job, I got burnt by two well known ones. The crank got thrown in a box and shipped without it being touched. Cost me over $250 to fix. The second time I ordered something from a long ways away, a machining step was skipped. So due to two problems out of two, never again. I want to be able to put it in the truck and go talk to them in person.
So on my eagle kit directly from them with hand writed balanced sheet I would think they didnt miss a step or they wouldnt be writen in right? Or do they just make stuff up to write in. My biggest problem was the rods didnt fit the pistons. I had to have the small end of the rod resized but the place I got the kit from compesated me for the cost of the machine work. I also broke a ring putting the pistons in and they sent me a new ring pack for free. And it was like a wholesale warehouse through my local parts store.
Posted By: RodStRace
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/10/11 07:58 PM
Depends on the rest of your build and intended usage. This is in the race section, not general, so that's going to up the ante.
Here's my take on this from a low-buck, mainly street stance.
Go with a balanced kit if:
You are building a street car that will rarely if ever be at full throttle, the engine will be assembled at home with basic tools and you are not checking every tolerance and fitting each part. The engine will be more for bragging rights and wanting a bit more than stock.
Go with the unbalanced if:
You or a good, trusted machinist is going to double or triple-check and fit each and every component, the engine will be run hard and long and expected to produce consistant and reliable high HP, and you will use all the available power.
Most people fall in between the cruiser bragging that he has a 400+ small block and idling around town and the racer that has a combo that puts others to shame. I would lean toward expecting that some fitting and changes will be needed on the rotating assembly. Stuff like ring fitting, bearing or piston coating, cleanup of clearances, rod bolt changes or smoothing of the piston tops can all change the weights of the components. It makes sense to do all of this fitting and setup before final balance to me.
I would also add that if you are taking a bunch of parts to a machinist, it makes sense to have them responsible for all the special work done. If the cost is fairly close, have them do the balancing too.
Here's my take on this from a low-buck, mainly street stance.
Go with a balanced kit if:
You are building a street car that will rarely if ever be at full throttle, the engine will be assembled at home with basic tools and you are not checking every tolerance and fitting each part. The engine will be more for bragging rights and wanting a bit more than stock.
Go with the unbalanced if:
You or a good, trusted machinist is going to double or triple-check and fit each and every component, the engine will be run hard and long and expected to produce consistant and reliable high HP, and you will use all the available power.
Most people fall in between the cruiser bragging that he has a 400+ small block and idling around town and the racer that has a combo that puts others to shame. I would lean toward expecting that some fitting and changes will be needed on the rotating assembly. Stuff like ring fitting, bearing or piston coating, cleanup of clearances, rod bolt changes or smoothing of the piston tops can all change the weights of the components. It makes sense to do all of this fitting and setup before final balance to me.
I would also add that if you are taking a bunch of parts to a machinist, it makes sense to have them responsible for all the special work done. If the cost is fairly close, have them do the balancing too.
Posted By: therocks
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/10/11 08:08 PM
My machinist checks everything at least 3 or 4 times.Then he checks it again.Last 2 blocks he did for us are fantastic.Rocky
Posted By: dragram440
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/10/11 08:20 PM
Every engine should be checked and double checked on all clearances if its a street engine or race engine. The machine shop checked everything and I double checked everything when I assembled it. If you are building a street engine you want it to last just as long as a race engine.
Posted By: justinp61
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/10/11 08:24 PM
My rotating assembly came from Dan, If he was closer I'd let him do my machine work too. There is a shop close to me that had been in business since the 60s and still going strong. Everything they've done for me has checked spot on.
Posted By: dmking
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/10/11 08:53 PM
i live near the guy that did the machineing and assembling and we are friends so i help him with his electrician needs.
he gets a lot of "balanced" rotating assemblys and sometimes his mesured weights and the written down ones are way off and the crank jumps around like mad with the their bob weight to just check quick.
it is my experience if you have a trusted shop then let them do the balance. a good shop will check the balance if they are going to be that guy anyway so why pay twice to do it correctly?
he gets a lot of "balanced" rotating assemblys and sometimes his mesured weights and the written down ones are way off and the crank jumps around like mad with the their bob weight to just check quick.
it is my experience if you have a trusted shop then let them do the balance. a good shop will check the balance if they are going to be that guy anyway so why pay twice to do it correctly?
Posted By: KOS
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/10/11 09:06 PM
how does 440source stack up?i figured with the amount of kits they sell they would have things pretty well figured out on the balancing aspect.
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/10/11 11:14 PM
Quote:
Depends on the rest of your build and intended usage. This is in the race section, not general, so that's going to up the ante.
Here's my take on this from a low-buck, mainly street stance.
Go with a balanced kit if:
You are building a street car that will rarely if ever be at full throttle, the engine will be assembled at home with basic tools and you are not checking every tolerance and fitting each part. The engine will be more for bragging rights and wanting a bit more than stock.
Go with the unbalanced if:
You or a good, trusted machinist is going to double or triple-check and fit each and every component, the engine will be run hard and long and expected to produce consistant and reliable high HP, and you will use all the available power.
Most people fall in between the cruiser bragging that he has a 400+ small block and idling around town and the racer that has a combo that puts others to shame. I would lean toward expecting that some fitting and changes will be needed on the rotating assembly. Stuff like ring fitting, bearing or piston coating, cleanup of clearances, rod bolt changes or smoothing of the piston tops can all change the weights of the components. It makes sense to do all of this fitting and setup before final balance to me.
I would also add that if you are taking a bunch of parts to a machinist, it makes sense to have them responsible for all the special work done. If the cost is fairly close, have them do the balancing too.
My duster is not a dailey driver but a strip/street car. My foot WILL be in it!!!! My 360 block is .040 so I dont know how many cubes it will make but Im not looking to set the world on fire. Id like to get a NICE 400+ SB with steel crank,H beam rods and forged pistons. I would use everything else in my current set-up to save money. I would thing with everything I have now in my 360 and then make it a 400+,I would think it would make at least 550HP and id be VERY happy with that!!!
I have PMed Dan and he has PMed me back...I will call him next week.
Posted By: RodStRace
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/11/11 12:25 AM
Glad to hear you got my subtle hint that you shouldn't expect out of the box to be perfect and that things should be done in order, not just slapped together. 
dragram440, yes all precautions should be done and everything should be assembled with care, but sometimes there is the 'all I can afford' or the 'good enough, it's still better than factory' mindset. There will always be the dirt driveway rebuild at under a grand with a set of tools that came in a suitcase and a borrowed torque wrench. That guy needs a runner and can't afford the time and money to make everything perfect.
With the cost of stroker kits coming down to the point where it's almost as cheap as stock pistons, rings, bearings, a crank grind, reconditioning the rods and new bolts, some may decide to get one for a few bucks more and not be able to afford or do all the stuff that 'should' be done. Maybe it's a case like the member in South America where he can't find a decent local machine shop and shipping/import would be more than the parts.
dragram440, yes all precautions should be done and everything should be assembled with care, but sometimes there is the 'all I can afford' or the 'good enough, it's still better than factory' mindset. There will always be the dirt driveway rebuild at under a grand with a set of tools that came in a suitcase and a borrowed torque wrench. That guy needs a runner and can't afford the time and money to make everything perfect.
With the cost of stroker kits coming down to the point where it's almost as cheap as stock pistons, rings, bearings, a crank grind, reconditioning the rods and new bolts, some may decide to get one for a few bucks more and not be able to afford or do all the stuff that 'should' be done. Maybe it's a case like the member in South America where he can't find a decent local machine shop and shipping/import would be more than the parts.
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/11/11 03:46 AM
My 360 being .040, what kind of cubic inch could I get out of it?? Not like im looking for 500"!!! 
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/11/11 10:26 AM
Quote:
My 360 being .040, what kind of cubic inch could I get out of it?? Not like im looking for 500"!!!
at 4.04 bore and a 4" stroke it becomes 410 inches of lean, mean, street strip machine.
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/12/11 03:10 AM
Is there any other size cranks besides a 4" and if so,what are they and how many cubes could you get??
Posted By: Bad340fish
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/12/11 03:14 AM
Quote:
Is there any other size cranks besides a 4" and if so,what are they and how many cubes could you get??
Mike I know you read dang near every thread in the race section so you know the answer to this. BPE makes a 4.125 and a 4.25.
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/12/11 03:19 AM
Quote:Quote:
Is there any other size cranks besides a 4" and if so,what are they and how many cubes could you get??
Mike I know you read dang near every thread in the race section so you know the answer to this. BPE makes a 4.125 and a 4.25.
Buy I dont know how many cubes it will make in my .040 360?? I dont know how to figure it out,sorry
Posted By: Bad340fish
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/12/11 03:22 AM
The 4.25 would get you a 435
Save this link
http://www.wallaceracing.com/cid.php
they also have all kinds of other calculators that are fun to play with
.
Save this link
http://www.wallaceracing.com/cid.php
they also have all kinds of other calculators that are fun to play with
.
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/12/11 03:35 AM
Thanks Clark!!!!!!
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/12/11 04:39 AM
Quote:
Is there any other size cranks besides a 4" and if so,what are they and how many cubes could you get??
just be careful, i've seen more than one guy destroy a stock block. more stroke = more cubes but IMO the stock block will only handle the extra side loading for just so long.
Posted By: justinp61
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/12/11 12:38 PM
Quote:
Buy I dont know how many cubes it will make in my .040 360?? I dont know how to figure it out,sorry
Bore X bore X stroke X .7854 X the number of cylinders.
Posted By: Guitar Jones
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/12/11 02:05 PM
Quote:Quote:
Is there any other size cranks besides a 4" and if so,what are they and how many cubes could you get??
just be careful, i've seen more than one guy destroy a stock block. more stroke = more cubes but IMO the stock block will only handle the extra side loading for just so long.
Please tell hard block and a main girdle will help.
I know I'm probably pushing the limit with a 4" stroke combo. The guy I got this cam from said they made 650 HP with it in a Super Stock 340 engine. I figure I have much better heads (W5), induction system (TR w/750's) and 60 more cubes so if I can't match his numbers I'm going quit.
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/12/11 07:12 PM
Thanks Justin!!!!
Just got off the phone with Dan. Very knowledgable and he was VERY patient with me and answered all my dumb questions!!!!! Thanks Dan.
Just got off the phone with Dan. Very knowledgable and he was VERY patient with me and answered all my dumb questions!!!!! Thanks Dan.
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/12/11 07:47 PM
Quote:
Thanks Justin!!!!
Just got off the phone with Dan. Very knowledgable and he was VERY patient with me and answered all my dumb questions!!!!! Thanks Dan.
I TOLD YA!!!!!
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/12/11 10:05 PM
Quote:
Thanks Justin!!!!
Just got off the phone with Dan. Very knowledgable and he was VERY patient with me and answered all my dumb questions!!!!! Thanks Dan.
Mike, thank you. it was a pleasure speaking with you today. i hope our talk was helpful.
by the way, there's no such thing as a dumb question. Kasey, as much stuff as we've done for you, you might as well become our official spokesperson.
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: STROKER KITS - 09/12/11 10:38 PM
Dan maybey a Mod will change my description to official spokesman of PERFORMANCE ONLY. That would be better than what I have now.....LOL