Moparts
engine assembly labor
Posted By: Scotts71chall
engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 12:54 AM
A very high quality engine machine shop wants $799 to assemble a Hemi short block, labor only!
Its a 572" world iron block. Includes fit cam but not deg. it.
Seems high $$$ to me?
They do alot of big inch mopar work including making there own BIG billet blocks & billet heads.
What ya think of that price, should I say some thing about it being to high?
I kind of really want them to do it instead of shipping it some where.
Posted By: fishy340
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 12:58 AM
short block thats kinda steep,long block is around 800 or 900 beans with my engine builder
Posted By: steeldust
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 01:23 AM
If they do real good work and do it right it`s not to much . Because that`s the life of a motor but that`s just me some times you get what you pay for.
GOOD LUCK
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 01:25 AM
The cam BETTER BE degreed-in for 800 clams !
Quote:
A very high quality engine machine shop wants $799 to assemble a Hemi short block, labor only!
Its a 572" world iron block. Includes fit cam but not deg. it.
Seems high $$$ to me?
They do alot of big inch mopar work including making there own BIG billet blocks & billet heads.
What ya think of that price, should I say some thing about it being to high?
I kind of really want them to do it instead of shipping it some where.
that's a little more than we charge, but it's not out of line for the work involved if it's done right. i would expect all critical dimensions are checked and documented. rings are file fit, etc. etc. who is supplying the parts for the build? sometimes that figures in to the cost of assembly as well.
engine assembly is usually one of those things that many people feel they can do themselves, and some can. in fact a lot of people can bolt parts together and the engine will run. now, how long it'll run and how well it'll run may be a different story altogether. 
Posted By: HardcoreB
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 02:51 AM
I would suggest you take the time and do it yourself. Buy the necessary tools (installers, all measuring equipment, grinding and tapping, files, picks, a few good how-to books, sealants, lubes, etc.) and now you have everything the next time you do it. And in that one time you have learned all the knowledge that the spendy 'big-time' shop knows and then applies. I don't know. I'm sorry but I think you get my point. The only way you'd know for sure is to do it successfully yourself. Hypothetically, if you sold it, the buyer is likely to pay you more for the big-name assembled engine. IMO it's even worth something IF you mention the shops name in vanity once you've patronised them.
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 02:53 AM
The price is not everything.
Ask about what will be checked and documented. Correction of out of tolerance items should be expected to be more money. But then you will know what you are getting for the money. It is not just bolting it together, if done right.
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The price is not everything.
Ask about what will be checked and documented. Correction of out of tolerance items should be expected to be more money. But then you will know what you are getting for the money. It is not just bolting it together, if done right.
Jim, that's absolutely the point i was trying to make. you don't pay a professional to "just bolt it together". you pay them to do the job completely and correctly.
Posted By: RodStRace
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 05:15 AM
Read the thread about a thrust cap here and it will help explain why an engine isn't just 'bolted together"....
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6782383
Posted By: dodgeboy11
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 07:10 AM
The owner/instructor of the school I went to charged 1000 bucks for assembly of a long block. This was assembly and adjustment for anything that isn't in specification for the application the engine will be used for. Make sure they specify whether or not it's just assembly or if it includes adjustments at that cost.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 08:05 AM
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The owner/instructor of the school I went to charged 1000 bucks for assembly of a long block. This was assembly and adjustment for anything that isn't in specification for the application the engine will be used for. Make sure they specify whether or not it's just assembly or if it includes adjustments at that cost.
How far and extensive does the "adjustment" phase go ?
Posted By: therocks
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 11:25 AM
MY machinist assembled my last short block.He also did all the machine work.Bored and plate honed it,turned polished crank,resized rods and installed new ARP bolts,drilled 1/2 inch pickup and opened up oil passages,balanced, blueprint,deck block and square,supplied a few parts, file fit rings,clearanced it,turned flywheel degreed cam and some more stuff.My total bill was under $1300.He also did the build for my sons 360 that he built.That was about 14 years ago.So it would be more now.He is one of those guys that you just trust to get it right and know that it is.Been a one man shop for 30 years plus.That and he has more work than he can handle.Most repeat customers.Rocky
Posted By: Commando1
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 12:53 PM
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A very high quality engine machine shop wants $799 to assemble a Hemi short block, labor only!
I'll "assemble" it for $250.
I'll "build it to spec" for $800.
Posted By: Stanton
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 02:13 PM
Have they done the machining as well or is this to check, correct and assemble someone else's work?
An example is the guy who did mine. He has a flat rate for all the machine work and a "ballpark" for assembly. That way, if it takes longer than usual to get machine to tolerance he can make it up on "assembly". I have no problem paying to have it done right.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 02:26 PM
Quote:
A very high quality engine machine shop wants $799 to assemble a Hemi short block, labor only!
Its a 572" world iron block. Includes fit cam but not deg. it.
Seems high $$$ to me?
They do alot of big inch mopar work including making there own BIG billet blocks & billet heads.
What ya think of that price, should I say some thing about it being to high?
I kind of really want them to do it instead of shipping it some where.
That's fair, don't complain unless you know what to check for.
Knowledge is power and $$. I bet you would have to spend $500 bucks to buy the tools needed.
Posted By: DJVCuda
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 02:46 PM
Quote:
Quote:
A very high quality engine machine shop wants $799 to assemble a Hemi short block, labor only!
Its a 572" world iron block. Includes fit cam but not deg. it.
Seems high $$$ to me?
They do alot of big inch mopar work including making there own BIG billet blocks & billet heads.
What ya think of that price, should I say some thing about it being to high?
I kind of really want them to do it instead of shipping it some where.
That's fair, don't complain unless you know what to check for.
Knowledge is power and $$. I bet you would have to spend $500 bucks to buy the tools needed.
and about $100,000 buying the machinery to correct some of the items that might need to be corrected...
Posted By: Scotts71chall
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 03:19 PM
I am supplying after market block,crank,rods.
His price includes fitting rings, cam.
His prices on machine work seem about in line with other high end shops and parts prices seem good.
If I were to drive it to a good shop that people recommend on here, the road trips would be about $300 so ill take that into consideration.
Maybe ill ask him if i buy more parts from him, will the labor price drop.
the price is what ever the market will bear. is he busy? does he have a waiting list? good reputation? personally, i couldn't imagine installing a cam but not degreeing it. mocking up a new combination takes a lot of time to do properly. 799.00 is cheap, imo, if they're really doing it right.
Posted By: 68-scatpack-rt
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 04:24 PM
pay him the extra dough and have the cam "degreed". why build a high dollar engine and skip this step?
our local shop (very well respected high performance shop in business for 40 plus years) charges 75 per hour. i would think he'd have 10 hours in cleaning, prep and assembly.
You want this guy to do the work, so you must trust him, BUT, you want him to negotiate his price for his years of experience, and 100,000s + dollars of machinery and so forth. Why should he? He gave you a price, that he feels he NEEDS to make to do the job. He has overhead, anticipated " trouble" with parts ( I dont care who you are, unless you've done this, you dont understand how many things you need to fix during assembly) and other wages and bills to pay. As mentioned above, at $75.00 an hour, and 10 hours labor ( which it can very easily go over), he is being fair. You dont like his price, but it is what he needs to make.
Would you like to go to work today and have your boss ask you to take a lesser wage, because he " thinks" you are getting paid too much, and he'd like to save some money this week and pay you a little less ? He likes you and everything, but hey, he's trying to crunch some numbers for corporate. Each job you do he wants to negotiate a better hourly wage from you. Do you go to the grocery store, and start negotiating for a better price on apples and fruit? You get what I am saying. I dont know why it is, that engine shops are considered scoundrels and thieves if they actually charge for about 75% of the actual time they put into a build, and most usuallly go above and beyond, and give way more than they charge, and are expected to be " on call" 7 days a week for free. I could go on and on...
Pay them man, get the job done right, and trust the shop to supply you with a well built engine.
Thats what you ultimatley want right or you'd be doing it yourself ?
My
Posted By: fishy340
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 08:07 PM
do like i did,i got banged in the u know what..and never went back to the guy!then found a humble dude that likes what he does for a living.and is very reasonable price wise.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 10:16 PM
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do like i did,i got banged in the u know what..
I talked to a Bud down-the-street ... BBC guy .... who got 
-also.
He supplied all-the-parts to this famous HP rebuilder for his dually. He was charged for ring filing/fitting ... yet the rings he supplied were std 30 over.
Posted By: Gumbydammit
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 10:26 PM
Compwedge, you are RIGHT ON THE MONEY there.
For a performance engine build, 800 is not out of line. Checking clearances, maybe needing to get + or - .001 bearings, deburring parts, file fit and deburr rings, install cam bearings, wash the block and all the parts ( properly ), final assembly, it all adds up and when its done properly, it takes TIME.
Add setting up the top end, checking valve spring pressures and installed heights, valve to guide clearance, rocker arm alignment, etc. and it should easily be another $500.
I'm not an engine guy, but I am in a trade-type business. IF someone wants me to provide a service, and stand behind my work, sure no problem. Knock me down on my price, no thanks, go somewhere else.
BTW, if it's a Hemi, and you are having him assemble the short block only, I don't blame him for not degreeing the cam without having the Heads. He could set it at the cam grinder's spec with out having the heads, but to me that's only part of the degree job. With the heads on he can check piston to valve clearance at different degrees of crank rotation.
I wouldn't degree it without the heads either. If he did, you bolt the heads on, and fire it up only to have the valve hit the pistons, you'd come back with your head on fire accusing him of not doing his job. There's more to it than bolting stuff together. I know this, and I'm no expert. The real pros know.
Posted By: rickraw
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 10:45 PM
i also agree with compwedge. kick up the cash, don't be cheap. get it done right the first time. then have some fun with ur ride. stay safe, seeya.
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I wouldn't degree it without the heads either. If he did, you bolt the heads on, and fire it up only to have the valve hit the pistons, you'd come back with your head on fire accusing him of not doing his job. There's more to it than bolting stuff together. I know this, and I'm no expert. The real pros know.
two different things. whoever does the top end is responsible for valve to piston clearance, and quench. i would never do a short block only. scary. gimme the whole job or go elsewhere.
Posted By: fishy340
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 11:00 PM
this is a shortblock topic!
Posted By: Gumbydammit
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 11:17 PM
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this is a shortblock topic!
Well aware, just sayin.
Posted By: cudacustoms1
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/18/11 11:26 PM
I was in the same position as you are with the same shop. I had them do the assembly on my BAE motor after having nothing but trouble with a different shop. They were very good to deal with. Since working with them I have talked to several different people I know that have used them and been happy with there work.
I dont know about the hemi but the engine builder I recently used charged 350. for long block asembly on a stroked small block
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I dont know about the hemi but the engine builder I recently used charged 350. for long block asembly on a stroked small block
350.00 for a stroker long block assembly? can you tell us the name of the shop please?
Posted By: hemi-itis
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/19/11 04:27 AM
Something smells FISHY,and I now HATE the smell of fish!!
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/19/11 05:18 AM
800 is fair. If another local shop is cheaper by a little, you could ask for the cam degree job to be thrown in.
Posted By: HardcoreB
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/19/11 12:53 PM
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800 is fair... you could ask for the cam degree job to be thrown in.
I agree...burn that bridge over $1-200. There are just some people you shouldn't do business with until their perception changes IMO. Let him take it to this other shop that is cheaper, I say. I like Todd's explanation/reasoning; How would you feel if daily, your boss adjusted (only downward) your wage based on your performance? As mentioned, I would also have the same shop do the entire assembly. But, if I were this original shop and happened across this post, I would not take the job. IMO the OP is unfamiliar with the work required. Also, you are unable to recognize accurate advice from respected/sucessful members. You even contradict yourself. I honestly hope you get this worked out and all parties win. But, again no self-respecting shop would do business with you in your current state of mind IMO.
Posted By: Labratt
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/19/11 03:24 PM
So spill the beans,Ms. Blonde Barracuda!
Who did the long block for the "discounted" price of $350.00???
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/19/11 04:11 PM
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Something smells FISHY,and I now HATE the smell of fish!!
I agree ....verrry FISHY-itis ! 
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/19/11 05:41 PM
To me it sounds a bit on the high side, but not unreasonable. It takes a few days to correctly check and assemble, mock up, tear down, correct, clean, and re-assemble an engine. The question is what exactly are they checking, and correcting? How are they fitting the cam? How many times are they torque the studs and bolts? What will they correct for free, or charge extra for? What block prep are they doing? Are they installing the frost plugs and painting the block? What oiling system, how complicated a system (If they are installing it?) I think for the price they should degree the cam too?
I can see a long block costing more. It takes a bit of time to disasemble all the valves, check spring pressures, measure and correct spring install heights, mock up rocker gear, measure for pushrods, check and correct intake manifold fit, ect. I was thinking more like 16 hours at $50/hour = $800?
Posted By: prostreet68
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/19/11 05:42 PM
The shop that did the work on my motor said that its $1200 for him to do it.
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To me it sounds a bit on the high side, but not unreasonable. It takes a few days to correctly check and assemble, mock up, tear down, correct, clean, and re-assemble an engine. The question is what exactly are they checking, and correcting? How are they fitting the cam? How many times are they torque the studs and bolts? What will they correct for free, or charge extra for? What block prep are they doing? Are they installing the frost plugs and painting the block? What oiling system, how complicated a system (If they are installing it?) I think for the price they should degree the cam too?
I can see a long block costing more. It takes a bit of time to disasemble all the valves, check spring pressures, measure and correct spring install heights, mock up rocker gear, measure for pushrods, check and correct intake manifold fit, ect. I was thinking more like 16 hours at $50/hour = $800?
is 50.00 bucks an hour the going rate where your located for a premier engine builder?
keep in mind that the OP is supplying the parts, so if they don't fit right, he has to pay for the correction also. those parts as delivered fitting properly is NOT the responsibility of the builder. it is his job to catch any problems and correct them though. after all, that's worth paying for, right???
Posted By: Oyvind Mopar
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/19/11 09:57 PM
The assembling cost is then appx 10% of the engine value, in parts. So it is no big deal. More important is to have it properly done, and documented, and a warranty in some way against assembly errors if something bad happens at a later stage. An unskilled assembler can easily destroy your high value parts, or set them up so they self-destruct. I think that will be all the difference. Saving 2-300$ is no deal if the 10-15k$ engine fails....
If it is a bread and butter sbc, then it is a completely different story. But, you got a Hemi....Keep it living, too many Hemis went down the drain. The worst engines I work on are Hemis that have had multiple repairs/overhauls.
My
Posted By: hemi-itis
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 12:58 AM
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Something smells FISHY,and I now HATE the smell of fish!!
I agree ....verrry FISHY-itis !
Posted By: hemi-itis
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 01:06 AM
First I would want someone familiar with my type of build and knows a trick or 2, Secondly I would rather be quoted high,say $1000 and the final cost be $900
.If your quoted $800 and it comes to $900,you'll feel jammed
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 01:36 AM
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But, you got a Hemi....Keep it living, too many Hemis went down the drain. The worst engines I work on are Hemis that have had multiple repairs/overhauls.
I agree 101% ....those HEMIroids are a PITA ! ...and many owners are the same way - 'specially ones in early Bee bodies with huffers on them.
I say ...charge them DOUBLE the labor-rate and let us poor-church-mice(with the lowly 413's and 440's) get-a-break on the machine work and labor rates ...
Posted By: hemi-itis
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 02:37 AM
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But, you got a Hemi....Keep it living, too many Hemis went down the drain. The worst engines I work on are Hemis that have had multiple repairs/overhauls.
I agree 101% ....those HEMIroids are a PITA ! ...and many owners are the same way - 'specially ones in early Bee bodies with huffers on them.
I say ...charge them DOUBLE the labor-rate and let us poor-church-mice(with the lowly 413's and 440's) get-a-break on the machine work and labor rates ...
Knowin U.it get's done did by Tennesee tuxeedo where the rate is fAiR 
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 04:14 AM
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800 is fair... you could ask for the cam degree job to be thrown in.
I agree...burn that bridge over $1-200. There are just some people you shouldn't do business with until their perception changes IMO. Let him take it to this other shop that is cheaper, I say.
You aren't a business guy and it shows. If the competition is charging less locally, any business owner will tell you that is what determines the price. Might not even be aware he is losing business over a small amount of $$$. That is what sways the buying public many times.
200 bucks for a degree job? Send them all to me.
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800 is fair... you could ask for the cam degree job to be thrown in.
I agree...burn that bridge over $1-200. There are just some people you shouldn't do business with until their perception changes IMO. Let him take it to this other shop that is cheaper, I say.
You aren't a business guy and it shows. If the competition is charging less locally, any business owner will tell you that is what determines the price. Might not even be aware he is losing business over a small amount of $$$. That is what sways the buying public many times.
200 bucks for a degree job? Send them all to me.
really? so basically your saying everyone should shop by price alone?
i think some people do that, others shop by reputation and experience. which would you rather have?
Posted By: sasquatch
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 06:00 AM
Anybody on here know any rich machine shop owners? Most engine builders I know are barely getting by. We are charging the same rates for machine shop labor that we were almost 20 years ago and people still hollar. Most guys do it because we love it, it sure ain't for the cash and glory.
Todd
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 06:17 AM
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800 is fair... you could ask for the cam degree job to be thrown in.
I agree...burn that bridge over $1-200. There are just some people you shouldn't do business with until their perception changes IMO. Let him take it to this other shop that is cheaper, I say.
You aren't a business guy and it shows. If the competition is charging less locally, any business owner will tell you that is what determines the price. Might not even be aware he is losing business over a small amount of $$$. That is what sways the buying public many times.
200 bucks for a degree job? Send them all to me.
really? so basically your saying everyone should shop by price alone?
i think some people do that, others shop by reputation and experience. which would you rather have?
Depends. You were the one that was charging a ton for stuff a few years ago and got put off by others delivering quality work for much less. So I would expect your outlook to be different, based on the explosion you had then.
I deal w/ many different industries/trades in my work. It's always possible to find people doing quality work for less than you were paying for quality work. Not everyday, but if you keep an eye out, you will find what you need. Letting the same guy charge whatever he feels just 'cause he does good work is a good way to get gouged.
Posted By: HEMI472
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 06:24 AM
if the machine shop does all the machine work on the engine and you get most or all of the parts from them i dont think thay should charge that much. if they did the machine work right it should bolt togather why should they check there own work?? and i havent found one yet with a warranty. but i have heard thousands of reasons why it blowed up.and none of them was because the builder or the machine shop screwed up
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 06:28 AM
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Anybody on here know any rich machine shop owners? Most engine builders I know are barely getting by. We are charging the same rates for machine shop labor that we were almost 20 years ago and people still hollar. Most guys do it because we love it, it sure ain't for the cash and glory.
Todd
BARELY GETTING BY ...on $ 50.00 PLUS an hour ? ...I would like some of that "action" ...
Posted By: hemidup
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 07:12 AM
Assembling an engine is a love of God and mine. Not by how much money you make in an hour. There's days I make money. There's days I break even. There's day's I loose money, just like tonight and can't sleep over a 350 hp 340 build.
Posted By: therocks
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 11:37 AM
My machinist isnt getting rich.He makes a good living but he isnt rich.Doc 50 an hour sounds like big $$$$$.But there are expenses that have to be paid.The guy working at Gov Motors making 30 an hour and bennys for installing an emblem is doing better.That and when you add OT he makes more than 50 an hour.Now consider the shop owner has to pay taxes on the shop equipment SS FICA health insurance retirement property insurance and taxes etc.See how much comes out of that 50 an hour.Rocky
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800 is fair... you could ask for the cam degree job to be thrown in.
I agree...burn that bridge over $1-200. There are just some people you shouldn't do business with until their perception changes IMO. Let him take it to this other shop that is cheaper, I say.
You aren't a business guy and it shows. If the competition is charging less locally, any business owner will tell you that is what determines the price. Might not even be aware he is losing business over a small amount of $$$. That is what sways the buying public many times.
200 bucks for a degree job? Send them all to me.
really? so basically your saying everyone should shop by price alone?
i think some people do that, others shop by reputation and experience. which would you rather have?
Depends. You were the one that was charging a ton for stuff a few years ago and got put off by others delivering quality work for much less. So I would expect your outlook to be different, based on the explosion you had then.
what in the world are you talking about? what kind of stuff and what explosion? have you been hanging around the fiberglass fumes with Doc or something?
speaking of Doc, you want some of the action for 50.00 an hour? go get some. i'm betting you have no idea of the investment it takes to equip a machine shop and keep the doors open. 500K will barely get you started with equipment, add the tooling and supplies, specialized hand tools, maintenance, rent, tangible taxes, employee payroll, (more taxes) electricity, chemicals, etc. etc. and see how that works out for you. you'll work the first 10 hours of the day just to meet expenses, if your lucky. at 50 .00 an hour you'll be out of business in a hurry.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 01:38 PM
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800 is fair... you could ask for the cam degree job to be thrown in.
I agree...burn that bridge over $1-200. There are just some people you shouldn't do business with until their perception changes IMO. Let him take it to this other shop that is cheaper, I say.
You aren't a business guy and it shows. If the competition is charging less locally, any business owner will tell you that is what determines the price. Might not even be aware he is losing business over a small amount of $$$. That is what sways the buying public many times.
200 bucks for a degree job? Send them all to me.
really? so basically your saying everyone should shop by price alone?
i think some people do that, others shop by reputation and experience. which would you rather have?
Depends. You were the one that was charging a ton for stuff a few years ago and got put off by others delivering quality work for much less. So I would expect your outlook to be different, based on the explosion you had then.
what in the world are you talking about? what kind of stuff and what explosion? have you been hanging around the fiberglass fumes with Doc or something?
speaking of Doc, you want some of the action for 50.00 an hour? go get some. i'm betting you have no idea of the investment it takes to equip a machine shop and keep the doors open. 500K will barely get you started with equipment, add the tooling and supplies, specialized hand tools, maintenance, rent, tangible taxes, employee payroll, (more taxes) electricity, chemicals, etc. etc. and see how that works out for you. you'll work the first 10 hours of the day just to meet expenses, if your lucky. at 50 .00 an hour you'll be out of business in a hurry.
50 bucks an hour is nothing, we charge $65. an hour for our labor at work and we are not getting rich.
The computer guy charges 120 an hour...
Posted By: hemi-itis
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 01:42 PM
I'll add a few more things
What about the time put into a job that just is never billed?You might have 10 hours on a particular job and only bill for 10.
The other thing is that @#$%^^& phone & peeps coming in the door
You'll be lucky to get 4 hours outta an 10 hour day
Posted By: 1969RR
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 03:00 PM
speaking of Doc, you want some of the action for 50.00 an hour? go get some. i'm betting you have no idea of the investment it takes to equip a machine shop and keep the doors open. 500K will barely get you started with equipment, add the tooling and supplies, specialized hand tools, maintenance, rent, tangible taxes, employee payroll, (more taxes) electricity, chemicals, etc. etc. and see how that works out for you. you'll work the first 10 hours of the day just to meet expenses, if your lucky. at 50 .00 an hour you'll be out of business in a hurry.
:iagree
I'll work out of my garage at home for $50.00 and hour....I own a business and have 7 employees, $50.00 an hour labor will in no way cover expenses. At $50.00 an hour, you will have all the WalMart mentality people with their "junk" beating down your doors! Then, come back complaining about everything!! I don't want that kind of work. The shop owner knows what he/she needs to make to be able to keep the doors open, so he/she will be there the next time you need them. How many times have you seen the "low ball", fly-by-nite, places come and go??? If you think shop A is too high, quit complaining, and go to shop B..he might be there the next time you need him....just my opinion. Jeff
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 03:54 PM
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speaking of Doc, you want some of the action for 50.00 an hour? go get some. i'm betting you have no idea of the investment it takes to equip a machine shop and keep the doors open. 500K will barely get you started with equipment, add the tooling and supplies, specialized hand tools, maintenance, rent, tangible taxes, employee payroll, (more taxes) electricity, chemicals, etc. etc. and see how that works out for you. you'll work the first 10 hours of the day just to meet expenses, if your lucky. at 50 .00 an hour you'll be out of business in a hurry.
:iagree
I'll work out of my garage at home for $50.00 and hour....I own a business and have 7 employees, $50.00 an hour labor will in no way cover expenses. At $50.00 an hour, you will have all the WalMart mentality people with their "junk" beating down your doors! Then, come back complaining about everything!! I don't want that kind of work. The shop owner knows what he/she needs to make to be able to keep the doors open, so he/she will be there the next time you need them. How many times have you seen the "low ball", fly-by-nite, places come and go??? If you think shop A is too high, quit complaining, and go to shop B..he might be there the next time you need him....just my opinion. Jeff
Sorry I threw out the $50/hour rate. I was tring to say $800 to do a job that will likely take 16 hours is only $50/hour.
I think someone else quoted 10 hours at $75, but noted it can take several more hours, but most shops will stay at the quoted price and not charge the extra time or consumables used.
The interesting part is the OP is supplying "all new parts". Because they are all new, and a stroker, the parts have never been fitted, checked, clearanced, corrected, ect, so it will take longer to assemble than if it was a rebuild.
Don't get me started on how our government is unfriendly to small business. We have taxed and regulated most manufacturing jobs out of the country.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 03:58 PM
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800 is fair... you could ask for the cam degree job to be thrown in.
I agree...burn that bridge over $1-200. There are just some people you shouldn't do business with until their perception changes IMO. Let him take it to this other shop that is cheaper, I say.
You aren't a business guy and it shows. If the competition is charging less locally, any business owner will tell you that is what determines the price. Might not even be aware he is losing business over a small amount of $$$. That is what sways the buying public many times.
200 bucks for a degree job? Send them all to me.
really? so basically your saying everyone should shop by price alone?
i think some people do that, others shop by reputation and experience. which would you rather have?
Depends. You were the one that was charging a ton for stuff a few years ago and got put off by others delivering quality work for much less. So I would expect your outlook to be different, based on the explosion you had then.
what in the world are you talking about? what kind of stuff and what explosion? have you been hanging around the fiberglass fumes with Doc or something?
You had a full meltdown explosion on here a few years back over engine labor costs. It was pretty funny.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 05:30 PM
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speaking of Doc, you want some of the action for 50.00 an hour? go get some. i'm betting you have no idea of the investment it takes to equip a machine shop and keep the doors open. 500K will barely get you started with equipment, add the tooling and supplies, specialized hand tools, maintenance, rent, tangible taxes, employee payroll, (more taxes) electricity, chemicals, etc. etc. and see how that works out for you. you'll work the first 10 hours of the day just to meet expenses, if your lucky. at 50 .00 an hour you'll be out of business in a hurry.
Dan .....
I would agree ...if you want to equip a machine-shop with the top-of-the-line 2012 equipment it might cost a little bit MORE than that. But who does that? ... NOT the wise business person.
The shop that I have used since I have been up-here uses old-school YESTERtech equipment that may not be as speedy as the new-stuff ... but is just a good -- it just takes a better operator.
I will bet that if all his old-school equipment sold at an auction ... it might be worth 30k$ ...and that is a stretch. There have been many auction/sales listing I have seen in the past couple of years ...and even stuff on CL ...
Sure .. you can spend 500k$ ... and you can buy a new building with 20k$ a month overhead .... but most do not do that if you want to stay-in-biz.
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You had a full meltdown explosion on here a few years back over engine labor costs. It was pretty funny.
you obviously have me mixed up with somebody else.
do a search and find it...
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 06:54 PM
Engine assembly labor and machine shop labor are two different animals.One relys on precision machine work that sometimes take a lot of setup and check/recheck time,assembly and engine build time should be pretty much basic,checking the clearences and fit and putting everything together correctly.Based on the amont of machine work needed a estimate of cost can be established and quoted within reasonable+- dollars and the same with the assembly or build.The customer shouldn't have to pay for dead time or problem solving issues that arise.I personally would never have work done based on an hourly shop time,if someone is charging by time and materials in any industry someone is getting screwed.I can understand that if someone brings a job in that will only take a few hours then it would be appropiate to charge a flat hourly rate since it is taking you away from shop productive time.Both partys should have a clear understanding of the the cost before entering into an agreement and if something unexpected comes up discuss it and come to terms as how to proceed.Too many times when the job is done and the cost is over the agreed amont it's too late salvage a relationship and both partys feel cheated.With this economy any good customer and business relationship is important to maintain.
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Engine assembly labor and machine shop labor are two different animals.One relys on precision machine work that sometimes take a lot of setup and check/recheck time,assembly and engine build time should be pretty much basic,checking the clearences and fit and putting everything together correctly.Based on the amont of machine work needed a estimate of cost can be established and quoted within reasonable+- dollars and the same with the assembly or build.The customer shouldn't have to pay for dead time or problem solving issues that arise.I personally would never have work done based on an hourly shop time,if someone is charging by time and materials in any industry someone is getting screwed.I can understand that if someone brings a job in that will only take a few hours then it would be appropiate to charge a flat hourly rate since it is taking you away from shop productive time.Both partys should have a clear understanding of the the cost before entering into an agreement and if something unexpected comes up discuss it and come to terms as how to proceed.Too many times when the job is done and the cost is over the agreed amont it's too late salvage a relationship and both partys feel cheated.With this economy any good customer and business relationship is important to maintain.
i agree with some of what your saying here. one of the problems that can come up is when a customer brings in his own parts and drops them off, you don't really know all that might need to be done in order to be assembled correctly with the right clearances, etc. to find that out, the "assembler/ machinist" will need to spend some time measuring and mocking up those parts first. time is money.
if you have two different rates for engine assembly and engine machining, i would only ask why? basically your saying your time is worth either more, or less, depending on the job your doing. both are very detail oriented jobs when done properly and both take time. most machine shops know how much per billable hour they need to charge in order to be profitable. of course if the "assembler" is just farming out the machine work, rather than doing it in house, that's another story altogether since he'll be doing other work in his shop while someone down the road does the machining.
i do agree that communication is the key to success. without that, your customer can feel isolated, confused, irritated, etc. etc. when all is said and done.
the reality is that most parts out of the box simply don't fit the way they were intended to and require extra work.
all i can tell you is this, in my shop, if we supply the parts generally very little if any extra work is needed. if a customer buys/ supplies a bunch of low end budget parts, alll bets are off.
Bob, i know you've seen that type of stuff first hand and know just how bad some parts can be.
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/20/11 08:20 PM
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Engine assembly labor and machine shop labor are two different animals.One relys on precision machine work that sometimes take a lot of setup and check/recheck time,assembly and engine build time should be pretty much basic,checking the clearences and fit and putting everything together correctly.Based on the amont of machine work needed a estimate of cost can be established and quoted within reasonable+- dollars and the same with the assembly or build.The customer shouldn't have to pay for dead time or problem solving issues that arise.I personally would never have work done based on an hourly shop time,if someone is charging by time and materials in any industry someone is getting screwed.I can understand that if someone brings a job in that will only take a few hours then it would be appropiate to charge a flat hourly rate since it is taking you away from shop productive time.Both partys should have a clear understanding of the the cost before entering into an agreement and if something unexpected comes up discuss it and come to terms as how to proceed.Too many times when the job is done and the cost is over the agreed amont it's too late salvage a relationship and both partys feel cheated.With this economy any good customer and business relationship is important to maintain.
i agree with some of what your saying here. one of the problems that can come up is when a customer brings in his own parts and drops them off, you don't really know all that might need to be done in order to be assembled correctly with the right clearances, etc. to find that out, the "assembler/ machinist" will need to spend some time measuring and mocking up those parts first. time is money.
if you have two different rates for engine assembly and engine machining, i would only ask why? basically your saying your time is worth either more, or less, depending on the job your doing. both are very detail oriented jobs when done properly and both take time. most machine shops know how much per billable hour they need to charge in order to be profitable. of course if the "assembler" is just farming out the machine work, rather than doing it in house, that's another story altogether since he'll be doing other work in his shop while someone down the road does the machining.
i do agree that communication is the key to success. without that, your customer can feel isolated, confused, irritated, etc. etc. when all is said and done.
the reality is that most parts out of the box simply don't fit the way they were intended to and require extra work.
all i can tell you is this, in my shop, if we supply the parts generally very little if any extra work is needed. if a customer buys/ supplies a bunch of low end budget parts, alll bets are off.
Bob, i know you've seen that type of stuff first hand and know just how bad some parts can be.
Dan,
Your right when it comes to a customer bringing parts especially if he has purchased them from different sources and even after someone else may have butchered them.That's when it's is most important to set down and explain to the customer the issues and the cost to correct everything.I've seen a lot of stuff purchased from E-bay and Racingjunk that is garbage to work with and a lot of wrong combo of parts that just won't work.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/21/11 12:19 AM
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You had a full meltdown explosion on here a few years back over engine labor costs. It was pretty funny.
you obviously have me mixed up with somebody else.
do a search and find it...
You used to go by "Dram", correct?
what a way to muck up a thread.
yes, i went by dram until this site got hacked some time ago. i'm waiting to see the "full meltdown explosion " your referring to.
Posted By: zzyzxpat
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/21/11 03:02 AM
That has to be the stupidest comment I have ever read "Doc". Try running a business sometime. You haven't a clue...
Pat
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/21/11 04:22 AM
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what a way to muck up a thread.
yes, i went by dram until this site got hacked some time ago. i'm waiting to see the "full meltdown explosion " your referring to.
Well, it's already starting again. Thanks for the bench racing fodder. We already got a good laugh out of you last time. The only thing mucking anything up is you and your attitude.
sorry havent been on here in a while, the name of the builder is Krings motorsports in Arpin Wis.
Posted By: MCHBOB
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/21/11 06:00 AM
This price is to assemble the short block only.
And what is fitting the cam?Check and grind rods for clearance?
Its a hemi so when is piston to head checked?after the short block is together?what about piston to valve?
Do you use a head gasket to get piston to head?sink the valve job to get piston to valve?
iam asking not to be an AZZ but never had someone just want the short block assembled?
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: engine assembly labor - 08/21/11 06:40 AM
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That has to be the stupidest comment I have ever read "Doc". Try running a business sometime. You haven't a clue...
Pat
You-dirty-Pat ! .... WHO RATtled your cage? And how many businesses have you run? ... I ran a fiberglass business - quite successfully I might add .. for well over 20 years. And I have been involved with several in a VC way.
How about YOU ? .... flip burgers much ?