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advice on FAST style engine build???

Posted By: cudabin

advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/18/11 12:03 AM

I would like to build up a new shortblock for my 1970 440 Six pack (Super track pack) Super BEE and keep the factory exhaust manifolds and six pack set up.

I was thinking to build a 4.250 stroker bottom end with 2.20" rod journals and have a decent set of 906 heads to run.

Any advice for staying pump gas and no headers?

Have a fairly good budget to work with, but want it to look stock externally and hopefully run 11.50's at 4,000 DA

Ideas? I know that cam selection will be critical with the HP manifolds and pump gas...

Cheers,

Arnie
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/18/11 12:11 AM

I know someone will ask so i'll just get to it, would you be opposed to an aluminum head? The 440 stealth heads appear stock from the outside but have a bit better design than a factory head.
Posted By: scatpacktom

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/18/11 12:13 AM

Call Dwayne Porter. He will have a recipe 4 you.
Posted By: cudabin

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/18/11 01:01 AM

Yes the stealth heads are a possibility, but my 906's already have good springs, 2.14 and 1.81 valves (back cut), chambers unshrouded and decent bowl ported... I know that they won't like the pump gas as much though?

ScatpackTom, from the look of your sig, you already have my recipe!!! mine is a 4 speed as well, 4.10 Dana.
You are running exactly what i want it to run.
Care to share?

Cheers,

Arnie
Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/18/11 01:31 AM

Quote:

Call Dwayne Porter. He will have a recipe 4 you.



X2 .......Dwayne's been around the block with that combo.......I'd recommend to send him your heads and have him do up the camshaft......and maybe even buy the rotating assembly from him......802-951-1955........
Posted By: XXHEMI

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/18/11 02:52 AM

I believe HP Mike has a complete FAST motor he is looking to sell? Something tells me it would need a bit more then pump gas though.

What are your plans for such engine? Race in the class or just have some fun with it on the street?

Ed
Posted By: lewtot184

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/18/11 03:12 AM

the only easy to get pump gas piston i can think of is a kb251 quench dome.
Posted By: cudabin

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/18/11 04:36 AM

There is no actual FAST racing here in Canada that i know of, but I do want it to look stock externally and it is never going to go faster than 11.50's as a roll bar and cutting up the car is out of the question.

Biggest mystery is how to adjust the cam to compensate for lower compression and HP exhaust manifolds...

Any other ideas?

Cheers,

Arnie
Posted By: scatpacktom

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/18/11 04:36 AM

I have 2 engines for the Super Bee. They have both run the same ET. Both are 493s. The engine curently in the car is 14 to 1 with a dome pistons,it is 4.150 stroke, it uses 346 heads that flow in the mid 270s, cam is a solid roller mid 250s with .630 lift.I use 1.5 crane rockers with a stock sixpack. The ignition is a Chrysler chrome box with firecore wires. It has stock exhaust manifolds with no modifications and a Accurate 2.5 exhaust system, mufflers are Ultra Flow SS.

The other engine is a 12.5 to 1 with flat tops. That one has 906 heads that flow a smidge better. The cam is a solid roller that has slower ramps with the same .630 lift. If you want the specs call Dwayne I really can't keep them all straight anymore. Otherwise they are the same really.

The high compression engine never really lived up to my expectations. It has a lighter crank,more comp and a more agressive cam. Just a Dud really. I think the 906s are just plain old better.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/18/11 05:03 AM

Quote:



The high compression engine never really lived up to my expectations. It has a lighter crank,more comp and a more agressive cam. Just a Dud really. I think the 906s are just plain old better.



Any thoughts to swapping the 906's onto the higher compression engine?

I agree with these 2 above , Dwayne will tell you if it's possible to meet your goals or not given your requirements .
Posted By: scatpacktom

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/18/11 01:03 PM

I have a set of 906s that are better than the ones on the low comp motor that someday I may swap on. I have another cam that should pick it up too.

To be honest the Bee is not fun to drive on the street. With the poly tires it is out of control and completly unpredictable. I move my toe and it goes in the other lane or aims at the curb. I can't even think about "mashing it" that would just test the rev limiter.

With no bar in it's future I'm happy to run 11.50s in the good air
Posted By: XXHEMI

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/19/11 12:11 PM



With no bar in it's future I'm happy to run 11.50s in the good air



Tommy,
It seems that is what evryone has been thinking latley! Go one step further? You say you can't drive your 11.50 car on the street because it's not fun? Look at Scotty's 11.70 car??? Have fun driven that thing anywhere and I do mean anywhere!!

I miss driven my cars on the street!

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Posted By: scatpacktom

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/19/11 01:12 PM

Really it's the trans that makes it undesirable. The trans is so clunky it's just not worth the abuse. Shifts are so harsh it looks like you can't drive a stick.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/19/11 04:10 PM

Is that the trans or the clutch? I don't know anything about your setup but some of the guys I've talked to run the McLeod adjustable clutch. It takes a little work under the car to adjust it for street driving but it can be done. Of course, it isn't something that I'd do either! I tried to run that setup for a while and I got tired of messing with it. I just went back to a simple setup that was slower, but didn't require so much babysitting.
Posted By: scatpacktom

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/19/11 05:27 PM

It is the face plated trans in the Bee that makes it unpleasant to drive. The T/A is face plated with a Advanced clutch, so I can honestly say it never even crossed my mind to drive it around on the street. Each shift costs me something and I can't afford to use it up on the street.

What did the Orig Poster come up with?
Posted By: HPMike

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/19/11 07:21 PM

I have a nearly complete unassembled FAST type sixpack wedge. It'll run well into the 10's with the right type of car. I might tone it down and see or I might sell the shortblock. No pump gas, unfortunately.

If someone doesn't buy it soon, then it's going into my 70 V code R/T for next year. I'll run it on the street with the stick and the poly's and run it with the FAST crew if I can.

MB
Posted By: BSB67

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/20/11 12:04 AM

With Stealth heads, it would be easy to make all the power needed to go 11.50s. I don't know about a pump gas iron headed motor. Probably.

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Posted By: cudabin

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/20/11 07:17 PM

Since there is no real FAST class racing here in Canada anyways, I guess a pair of Jeff's (MCH)CNC ported Stealths, and a hydraulic roller cam and either 4.15 or 4.25 stroke might be the way to go???

I just want to be able to run 11.50's at best, but be reliable and run on premium pump gas.

I could even run some M/T drag radials on the 7" rally wheels.

Anyone able to help me narrow down cam selection considering the factory manifolds and 2.5" H pipe stock exhaust?

I am thinking at least 10 - 12 degrees more duration on the exhaust??

Maybe 235int/247 ex @ .050" and probably .620" lift.

Tom, on your Accurate ltd exhaust did you stay with the factory 2.25" size tailpipes or upgrade to 2.5" ???

Cheers,

Arnie
Posted By: dannysbee

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/20/11 10:37 PM

The 284 528 MP is a proven performer with manifolds. I would look at the specs on it and use it help me pick a cam. Of coarse the flow sheets will have a direct bearing on the lift you would want to use.

Then if you want to throw some modern technology in to the mix you could look at the late model Z06 Corvette cam shaft. They make a lot of power through mufflers and cats.

Or you could contact Dwayne Porter as he has designed the cam and done the head work on some of the faster F.A.S.T. entrys and some folks that just like to go fast with manifolds like BSB67.

Pretty sure Dwayne did the heads and cam for BSB67 Charger that has run 11.60's at 120 mph with a 3.23 gear and over 4000 lbs.
Posted By: scatpacktom

Re: advice on FAST style engine build??? - 08/21/11 03:53 AM

Arnie, Yes I have 2.5 exhaust right out the back.

Also, why guess at the cam? If you have to buy a cam anyway why not just get one from Dwayne? He isn't going to charge you anymore than anyone else.
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