Finally got out to the track last night!!...Updated!!!

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 04:42 PM

Quote:

Well friday night at cayuga is not known for great traction especially after the street cars (especially front drives) have a couple hours to drag water up to the line!

yea, i know, but what can you do right? I wanted to go, and it was the only time I could. Today is an OSCA weekend, with qualifying starting at around 2, so i figured i'd get more runs in on a non even night than an event day. Going back next Friday probably, and possibly staying over for the saturday test and tune as well

Posted By: rickstershemi

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 04:43 PM

Hey Matt Congrats on getting in some track time....I agree, there's more in it....should be 12.2's at that mile per hr and your 60's are really not that far off either....tune...tune...tune

Rickster

Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 05:29 PM

Congrats! I'm sure you'll be real happy with the cars performance when done. Thanks for the update and lets see some pics!

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 05:31 PM

Here are the vids...Don't mind my overly enthusiastic friend who can't video worth a damn LOL

Pass #4 here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPRTJ0L7spw

Pass #5 here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAnSYfS8D_o

Thanks for the support and any input on anything you guys see or think is greatly appreciated

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 05:58 PM

Right now your off about 1/2 a second for the ET to MPH...
as you seen with the increase in RPM your 60' was getting
better so continue in that direction and that should
take care of the bog(small block doesnt have a ton
of torque)... once you get the best 60' with RPM then
start changing the preload on the caltracs to tweek
it in more..... you slowed the 60' by dropping the tire
pressure so you know you went the wrong way, so start
going up..... also the jetting you have should be
higher on the secondaries (about 7 jet sizes bigger
than a PV jet setting)...... keep playing

Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 05:58 PM

CONGRATS and BEAUTIFUL Scamp!!!!

Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 06:01 PM

Sounds great...nice car.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 06:41 PM

I would try putting in smaller squirters to get rid of the bog, smaller will squirt longer, bigger squirts shorter, with the same pressure

stick shift cars eat parts,what are you ging to feed it

But they sure are fun

BTW, make sure the accelerator pump arms are adjusted properly also

You should have .015 to .20 of clearance left in the travel at WOT on both arms to the adjusters, IE slip a feeler gauge in between them or use the calibrated finger feel

Posted By: FastmOp

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 07:20 PM

Nice car. Looks and sounds good going down the strip. Keep up with everything in a log book. It's nice to see what works and what don't.

Posted By: moparniac

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 07:53 PM

congrats

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 08:05 PM

Quote:

Right now your off about 1/2 a second for the ET to MPH...
as you seen with the increase in RPM your 60' was getting
better so continue in that direction and that should
take care of the bog(small block doesnt have a ton
of torque)... once you get the best 60' with RPM then
start changing the preload on the caltracs to tweek
it in more..... you slowed the 60' by dropping the tire
pressure so you know you went the wrong way, so start
going up..... also the jetting you have should be
higher on the secondaries (about 7 jet sizes bigger
than a PV jet setting)...... keep playing

Hey Mr. P, thanks for the input!
Does the bog look like a traction issue to you, or a power issue from the engine i.e. launch rpm not high enough. It doesnt look like its smooth after the hook. But your advice was exactly my plan last night- I wanted to see just how much launch rpm would help me out before touching the bars. What about shock settings? I had them on full stiff on rebound/compression on my last pass- does that sound about right to ya?

Also, when you say jet up on the secondaries 7 jets higher than the PV, im assuming you mean power valve? If so, I have a 3.5 pv in there now, so what would 7 sizes up from that be?

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 08:08 PM

Quote:

I would try putting in smaller squirters to get rid of the bog, smaller will squirt longer, bigger squirts shorter, with the same pressure stick shift cars eat parts,what are you ging to feed it But they sure are fun BTW, make sure the accelerator pump arms are adjusted properly also You should have .015 to .20 of clearance left in the travel at WOT on both arms to the adjusters, IE slip a feeler gauge in between them or use the calibrated finger feel

funny you say that about the squirters. The squirters were 28's on this carb when i got it, but I had some hesitation until i upped the squirter to the 35's (this was with my old milder 340 last year). I will try different squirters though next time out. I will also double check the clearance on the accelerator pump arms, didnt even think of that

And trust me, i know all about the stickshift eating parts since last year I broke enough stuff. With the caltracs controlling any wheelhop or axle windup and the dana out back with the 4 speed up front, im not too concerned about breaking. I didnt miss any gear at all last night, and i powershifted the whole time, and the car took it like a champ....I was very pleased

Thanks to all for the compliments! All input for next time out is appreciated

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 08:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If it bogged you might need more pump shot???

pump shot as in squirter, or as in pump cam?

its got 35 squirters in it right now, primary and secondary. 3.5PV and 75 primary jet, 76 secondary jet. Used to have a 78 secondary in it, but it was running quite a bit richer with that in it. Once I get some solid AFR numbers I think I will have a better direction for jetting

Try a 4.5 PV, 74P and 80S. Then try a Blue pump cam and .031 squirters. Make sure you adjust the pump arms. Blue cam in the front and rear!
Make sure your mixture screws are about 1 1/2 to 2 turns out even if it idles a bit rich. That helps your throttle transition out also.
Looks good!!

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 10:05 PM

Your gonna have to tell me if the bog is a traction
issue... does the engine bog when you jump on the
gas or does it bog when you dump the clutch... if
its bogging on the hit of the gas then its more
of a carb issue... at the dump of the clutch its
a torque issue and higher revs can fix that... as
to the jets try it like Brian is saying

Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 10:20 PM

Why is there a guy even touching your car during a burnout?..not very wise...

Car looks nice.

Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 10:47 PM

First off, it's doing really well on the 60's for your first night out. Especially for a 4 gear. Nice work there. Keep chipping away at it.

Paint a BIG, WIDE white stripe on your rear tires. Looks like they are spinning to me. May be an illusion from lighting and camera frame speed.

Jet it up until it slows down. I bet there's another 1.5-2 mph in it. If it's in the 13.2 range it's lean. Use the meter as a guide and let the car tell you what it wants. Don't go with some predetermined number.

Set up your initial to get the vacuum up. I'll guess it's a little low and could be bumped up some. Just make sure you adjust mechanical to hit the total you want. Move the total around a bit at the track too. Again, let the car tell you what it likes. I'll guess around 33-35 because the compression isn't as high as it could be. May want more. Luckily, it's quick and easy to change.

Nice job and have fun with it.

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 11:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

If it bogged you might need more pump shot???

pump shot as in squirter, or as in pump cam?

its got 35 squirters in it right now, primary and secondary. 3.5PV and 75 primary jet, 76 secondary jet. Used to have a 78 secondary in it, but it was running quite a bit richer with that in it. Once I get some solid AFR numbers I think I will have a better direction for jetting

Try a 4.5 PV, 74P and 80S. Then try a Blue pump cam and .031 squirters. Make sure you adjust the pump arms. Blue cam in the front and rear!
Make sure your mixture screws are about 1 1/2 to 2 turns out even if it idles a bit rich. That helps your throttle transition out also.
Looks good!!

Thanks for the advice Brian...is this a jetting combination that you have done on similar builds to mine? That jetting is actually close to what I was going to try again when rejetting (stock was 75p, 80s). Right now my idle screws are about 1/2 to 1 turn out respectively since that was where the best idle and highest vacuum was..should I still try and back them out more even if it compromises idle quality? Or will the different jetting, pump cam, and pv allow it to idle ok with 1.5-2 turns out?

I don't know much about pump cams, but what exactly do they do, and when tuning with them, what do they change exactly? Thanks again as usual..like i said before, I am very happy with the way this engine works, and I think I can hit a low 12 with further tuning, which I will be extatic about considering how little I have into this motor

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 11:06 PM

Quote:

Hey Mr. P, thanks for the input!
Does the bog look like a traction issue to you, or a power issue from the engine i.e. launch rpm not high enough. It doesnt look like its smooth after the hook. But your advice was exactly my plan last night- I wanted to see just how much launch rpm would help me out before touching the bars. What about shock settings? I had them on full stiff on rebound/compression on my last pass- does that sound about right to ya?

Also, when you say jet up on the secondaries 7 jets higher than the PV, im assuming you mean power valve? If so, I have a 3.5 pv in there now, so what would 7 sizes up from that be?

The engine is bogging under the hit of the throttle, so I guess it is more of a carb issue. Maybe once I get the bog sorted out the 60's will improve and the car will still leave hard, but will leave smoother...Can't wait to get back out to the track and find out, just sucks its a 2 hour drive away lol

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 11:07 PM

Quote:

Why is there a guy even touching your car during a burnout?..not very wise...

Car looks nice.

I know i know....the burnout before the car was going totally sideways, so one of the track guys suggested we try that...but as you can see it wasn't nescessary on that pass

not sure why it went sideways to begin with on the one burnout...maybe one tire wasnt wet enough?

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/13/11 11:14 PM

Quote:

First off, it's doing really well on the 60's for your first night out. Especially for a 4 gear. Nice work there. Keep chipping away at it.

Paint a BIG, WIDE white stripe on your rear tires. Looks like they are spinning to me. May be an illusion from lighting and camera frame speed.

Jet it up until it slows down. I bet there's another 1.5-2 mph in it. If it's in the 13.2 range it's lean. Use the meter as a guide and let the car tell you what it wants. Don't go with some predetermined number.

Set up your initial to get the vacuum up. I'll guess it's a little low and could be bumped up some. Just make sure you adjust mechanical to hit the total you want. Move the total around a bit at the track too. Again, let the car tell you what it likes. I'll guess around 33-35 because the compression isn't as high as it could be. May want more. Luckily, it's quick and easy to change.

Nice job and have fun with it.

Thanks Rob! The 60's are alot better than the 2.2's I was getting last year with stock springs and a snubber lol...I think I may need more tuning in the caltracs, but im going to sort out the carb first and see if that helps...As soon as I saw that 107mph on my first pass I was extatic because I knew even though I ran a high 12, the car definitely had more in it...im chasing it down slowly though

About the tires, do you mean the tire is spinning on the rim? I had actually put tape on the rim and tire to see if it spun, but on the 2 hour drive to the track with the car the tape went flying off, and I didn't bring anymore, so i couldnt really see if it did. If its spinning though, should I try airing the tires up a tad, or do i need screws?

I am definitely going to play with the jetting since the car was pulling 107 and then all of a sudden a 108.43 trap speed...so i think its definitely leaving some on the table, plus I already knew that the 75p 76s jet wasnt exactly ideal, but i was waiting to get out to the track to see and then get some ideas and input

Currently initial timing is at 18, and total is 36 all in by about 2300rpms...Im running basic pump puke gas, and it does not ping at all..My dad suggested I bring a timing light and then up the gas to the best stuff, but I insisted the car go down the track the exact same way i run it on the street, gas type and all. I will definitely try playing with the timing though as I may be leavin some on the table (not sure I can get away with it with the gas im running though)...Im just big into the whole it runs on the street the exact same way it does on the track- people couldnt believe that I drove 2 the hours there and 2 hours back with the e/t streets and a dumped exhaust on the car LOL

Posted By: steeldust

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 12:30 AM

Nice looking MOPAR

and it sounds good

way to go and good luck.

Attached picture 6776962-JUNEBOUNTYRACE.jpg

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 12:36 AM

Good job...........

Bangin gears is cool for sure and it`s running good w/more to come!

Posted By: goldmember

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 12:55 AM

Sounds like a decent first track visit. I assume you have secondary jet extentions?

Attached picture 6776993-IMG_0886.JPG

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 02:20 AM

All of the stocker and bracket race SB with iron heads I've help on like 30 to 33 egree total timing, pump gas or race gas

Have you treid less timing? As far as the bog my first NHRA legal stocker was 1970 Cuda 4 sped with the 426 street Hemi motor, it would bog on a good track with 4.10 and 28 inch tall M&H slicks letting the clutch out at 6500 RPM back in 1974

I switch rear gears(4.88 and then 5:13

and started spinning the tire on the starting line but it went a tiny bit quicker and faster, my thoughts are to put the throttle on the floor on the last yellow and then let the clutch pedal out

If it bogs work on it

I owned a 340 4 speed street Duster later that I fed it some of the parts from my racer, it would bog with NHRA legal 9x30 stick shift slicks on it on the street letting the clutch out at over 6500 RPM

I never got beat on the street with that car, it only ran in the high twelves back then. It beat many cars that had raced cars that knew sombody who knew somebody who had a car that ran in the nines

I now put white shoe polish on the rims and tires so I can have some one video the car, when you play the video back on a TV with slow motion you can see if the tire spins on the line or not, and if so how much

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 02:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

If it bogged you might need more pump shot???

pump shot as in squirter, or as in pump cam?

its got 35 squirters in it right now, primary and secondary. 3.5PV and 75 primary jet, 76 secondary jet. Used to have a 78 secondary in it, but it was running quite a bit richer with that in it. Once I get some solid AFR numbers I think I will have a better direction for jetting

Try a 4.5 PV, 74P and 80S. Then try a Blue pump cam and .031 squirters. Make sure you adjust the pump arms. Blue cam in the front and rear!
Make sure your mixture screws are about 1 1/2 to 2 turns out even if it idles a bit rich. That helps your throttle transition out also.
Looks good!!

Thanks for the advice Brian...is this a jetting combination that you have done on similar builds to mine? That jetting is actually close to what I was going to try again when rejetting (stock was 75p, 80s). Right now my idle screws are about 1/2 to 1 turn out respectively since that was where the best idle and highest vacuum was..should I still try and back them out more even if it compromises idle quality? Or will the different jetting, pump cam, and pv allow it to idle ok with 1.5-2 turns out?

I don't know much about pump cams, but what exactly do they do, and when tuning with them, what do they change exactly? Thanks again as usual..like i said before, I am very happy with the way this engine works, and I think I can hit a low 12 with further tuning, which I will be extatic about considering how little I have into this motor

The pump cam is responsible for the volume/time the squirter sees. Trust me, get 2 blue cams, and go back to .031 squirts. Go up to 4.5 PV, and set the mix screws at 1 1/2 for now.
Yes it will be a tad rich, that's the cam and that's OK.
Very nice looking car and very good for a 9:1 360 4 row!!

Posted By: 6bblRoadrunner

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 02:47 AM

First off...good first outing. My opinion is that you need to increase your launch rpm (I ran into the same issue early on with my 4spd Demon). Like Mr P stated the small block doesn't make a lot of torque, so it needs rpm. You've stated that you have a 2-step in the car so I would keep increasing launch rpm (at the time I was tuning I would go up in increments of 400), then back off when your '60s start going the wrong way. The reason I say this is that (I'm assuming your leaving with the pedal on the floor) you've used your pump shots. The video camera is a great tuning aid for this. I found that what I thought was a clean leave still had a slight bog when reviewing the video.
Keep testing...you'll get it.

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 02:24 PM

Quote:

Sounds like a decent first track visit. I assume you have secondary jet extentions?

nope, I actually don't...that could actually be a real problem...man im out of it.

Going to order some first thing tommorow morning

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 02:26 PM

Quote:

All of the stocker and bracket race SB with iron heads I've help on like 30 to 33 egree total timing, pump gas or race gas Have you treid less timing? As far as the bog my first NHRA legal stocker was 1970 Cuda 4 sped with the 426 street Hemi motor, it would bog on a good track with 4.10 and 28 inch tall M&H slicks letting the clutch out at 6500 RPM back in 1974 I switch rear gears(4.88 and then 5:13 and started spinning the tire on the starting line but it went a tiny bit quicker and faster, my thoughts are to put the throttle on the floor on the last yellow and then let the clutch pedal out If it bogs work on it I owned a 340 4 speed street Duster later that I fed it some of the parts from my racer, it would bog with NHRA legal 9x30 stick shift slicks on it on the street letting the clutch out at over 6500 RPM I never got beat on the street with that car, it only ran in the high twelves back then. It beat many cars that had raced cars that knew sombody who knew somebody who had a car that ran in the nines I now put white shoe polish on the rims and tires so I can have some one video the car, when you play the video back on a TV with slow motion you can see if the tire spins on the line or not, and if so how much

I havent tried any less timing, maybe I guess I should. Im really thinking I should be able to tune this bog out with some carb tuning and the right launch rpm. Shoe polish is a good idea for marking the tire and rim to see if its spinning..thanks man!

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 02:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

If it bogged you might need more pump shot???

pump shot as in squirter, or as in pump cam?

its got 35 squirters in it right now, primary and secondary. 3.5PV and 75 primary jet, 76 secondary jet. Used to have a 78 secondary in it, but it was running quite a bit richer with that in it. Once I get some solid AFR numbers I think I will have a better direction for jetting

Try a 4.5 PV, 74P and 80S. Then try a Blue pump cam and .031 squirters. Make sure you adjust the pump arms. Blue cam in the front and rear!
Make sure your mixture screws are about 1 1/2 to 2 turns out even if it idles a bit rich. That helps your throttle transition out also.
Looks good!!

Thanks for the advice Brian...is this a jetting combination that you have done on similar builds to mine? That jetting is actually close to what I was going to try again when rejetting (stock was 75p, 80s). Right now my idle screws are about 1/2 to 1 turn out respectively since that was where the best idle and highest vacuum was..should I still try and back them out more even if it compromises idle quality? Or will the different jetting, pump cam, and pv allow it to idle ok with 1.5-2 turns out?

I don't know much about pump cams, but what exactly do they do, and when tuning with them, what do they change exactly? Thanks again as usual..like i said before, I am very happy with the way this engine works, and I think I can hit a low 12 with further tuning, which I will be extatic about considering how little I have into this motor

The pump cam is responsible for the volume/time the squirter sees. Trust me, get 2 blue cams, and go back to .031 squirts. Go up to 4.5 PV, and set the mix screws at 1 1/2 for now.
Yes it will be a tad rich, that's the cam and that's OK.
Very nice looking car and very good for a 9:1 360 4 row!!

sweet, will do Brian! Gonna get some of those secondary jet extensions in there as well (Can't believe I forgot about those things)

Yea, Im pretty damn happy with how its running for such a simple low compression engine....thanks again!

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 02:29 PM

Quote:

First off...good first outing. My opinion is that you need to increase your launch rpm (I ran into the same issue early on with my 4spd Demon). Like Mr P stated the small block doesn't make a lot of torque, so it needs rpm. You've stated that you have a 2-step in the car so I would keep increasing launch rpm (at the time I was tuning I would go up in increments of 400), then back off when your '60s start going the wrong way. The reason I say this is that (I'm assuming your leaving with the pedal on the floor) you've used your pump shots. The video camera is a great tuning aid for this. I found that what I thought was a clean leave still had a slight bog when reviewing the video.
Keep testing...you'll get it.

will do. Question for ya- when you used a two step, or if you powershifted, did you get fire coming out of the exhaust? I am getting that and im not sure if thats normal or if its something i should be worried about

Posted By: 6bblRoadrunner

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 04:42 PM

Question for ya- when you used a two step, or if you powershifted, did you get fire coming out of the exhaust?

Not that I was aware of...never saw it on the video's. Maybe you're hitting the rev limiter when you shift??? I did hit the high side limiter when it was only set 200rpm above my shift points (I run an MSD Digital6). I've increased it to 400rpm above shift points and don't hear any misfires when I power shift.

Posted By: 383man

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 04:59 PM

Nice car and great first outing !

Tune tune tune and then some. You will get tons of advise for tuning but the best I can tell you is make one change at a time and write down what changes you made. Believe me its easy sometimes to forget what made it faster or slower and its easy to forget jet sizes as I know that well.

Thats why I like to even write down what size jets I put in.

As for launching I agree with some here. I used to bracket race a 340 Dart back in the 80's that ran a best of 11.92 and I had it very consistent for a stick car. I always left the same way every run. That was as soon as I saw even the flicker of the first yellow lite I would zing it up to about 5 or 6K. Then when the last yellow was coming on (or when I wanted to launch) I would floorboard it and pop the clutch. And I mean I would slam it to the floor and hold it there thru the 1/4 mile. As long as you have enough gear it will take it and if it hooks good you will have a great launch. My feeling was I was there to race it and race it hard so I ran it as hard as I could and if it breaks then so be it as I would fix what broke and beef it up. To me thats the only was to launch a stick car.........slam the throttle on the floor and let it rip.

Good luck with that cool looking and running Mopar and I bet you hit the 11's soon enough.

Ron

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 05:24 PM

Question for ya- when you used a two step, or if you powershifted, did you get fire coming out of the exhaust? I am getting that and im not sure if thats normal or if its something i should be worried about

How do you have your 2 step button/switch hooked up...
if you have it on the clutch you could be engaging
the 2 step when you hit the clutch

Posted By: 68 HEMI GTS

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 05:53 PM

i always like watching a old school stick car beat up on modern muscle!!

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 06:59 PM

Quote:

Question for ya- when you used a two step, or if you powershifted, did you get fire coming out of the exhaust?

Not that I was aware of...never saw it on the video's. Maybe you're hitting the rev limiter when you shift??? I did hit the high side limiter when it was only set 200rpm above my shift points (I run an MSD Digital6). I've increased it to 400rpm above shift points and don't hear any misfires when I power shift.

I have my shift light set at 5900, so im probably shifting around 6 or 61, limiter set to 6400 i believe. Its alot worse on the launch since as soon as that first amber lights up im sitting on that two step and its popping away

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 07:02 PM

Quote:

Nice car and great first outing ! Tune tune tune and then some. You will get tons of advise for tuning but the best I can tell you is make one change at a time and write down what changes you made. Believe me its easy sometimes to forget what made it faster or slower and its easy to forget jet sizes as I know that well. Thats why I like to even write down what size jets I put in.

As for launching I agree with some here. I used to bracket race a 340 Dart back in the 80's that ran a best of 11.92 and I had it very consistent for a stick car. I always left the same way every run. That was as soon as I saw even the flicker of the first yellow lite I would zing it up to about 5 or 6K. Then when the last yellow was coming on (or when I wanted to launch) I would floorboard it and pop the clutch. And I mean I would slam it to the floor and hold it there thru the 1/4 mile. As long as you have enough gear it will take it and if it hooks good you will have a great launch. My feeling was I was there to race it and race it hard so I ran it as hard as I could and if it breaks then so be it as I would fix what broke and beef it up. To me thats the only was to launch a stick car.........slam the throttle on the floor and let it rip. Good luck with that cool looking and running Mopar and I bet you hit the 11's soon enough. Ron

Thanks! I do have a log book going, I got the girlfriend trained about what im talking about and she's writing it down neatly for me instead of my rushed chicken scratch lol...I have the whole carb setup written down in that book

As far as my launchs go, im going to post another video, but in car, so you guys can see and hear the bog im talking about. As soon as that first amber glows my foot is matted on the throttle against the two step, when its green i dump the clutch and let go of the two step button on the shifter at the exact same time. I have beefed up the car for abuse for this year since last year I broke everything...But i love racing a stick, nothing funner than banging every gear with my right foot down the whole time

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 07:03 PM

Quote:

Question for ya- when you used a two step, or if you powershifted, did you get fire coming out of the exhaust? I am getting that and im not sure if thats normal or if its something i should be worried about

How do you have your 2 step button/switch hooked up...
if you have it on the clutch you could be engaging
the 2 step when you hit the clutch

no I have it on the shifter with a button...i've been told by some that the fire is normal because its popping unburnt fuel? but i thought I would ask here, since its quite the lightshow under the car when im using it lol

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 07:05 PM

Quote:

i always like watching a old school stick car beat up on modern muscle!!

yea, tell me about it, felt good! I raced a Z06 vette, which I knew would eat me, but he only caught me half track (mph at 120, if he hooked it would be a monster)

That new chally i raced in my fastest pass was funny....in the staging lanes the guy starts saying that my 60's were slow, how is old capri ran 1.30' 60" foots in the 12's, blah blah blah...then I took his SRT8 challenger out like nothing, and he didnt say much after

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 07:09 PM

when its green i dump the clutch and let go of the two step button on the shifter at the exact same time. I have beefed up the car for abuse for this year since last year I broke everything...But i love racing a stick, nothing funner than banging every gear with my right foot down the whole time

Ok I see you have the button on the shifter so that
wouldnt be the issue with the clutch... its common
for the chips in the 2 step to be off on the RPM
(200-400 rpm off) so try putting in a higher chip

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 07:26 PM

Cool I may come down Saturday for some test and tune too!

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 07:40 PM

Quote:

when its green i dump the clutch and let go of the two step button on the shifter at the exact same time. I have beefed up the car for abuse for this year since last year I broke everything...But i love racing a stick, nothing funner than banging every gear with my right foot down the whole time

Hey Mr. P, Ive checked the chip, its definitely working ok as I saw it sitting on 5k when I was at the line...im going to upload a video right of the inside and of the car hitting the tire

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 07:40 PM

Quote:

yea, i know, but what can you do right? I wanted to go, and it was the only time I could. Today is an OSCA weekend, with qualifying starting at around 2, so i figured i'd get more runs in on a non even night than an event day. Going back next Friday probably, and possibly staying over for the saturday test and tune as well

Cool I may come down Saturday for some test and tune too!

pm me if you do with what your car and your rig is and stuff so we can meet up possibly! Would be nice to meet another mopar guy and a moparts member at that too!

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 07:44 PM

Quote:

Sounds like a decent first track visit. I assume you have secondary jet extentions?

Hey man, am I going to need notched floats as well if i go with something like this?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-122-5000/

Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 07:58 PM

If you have it matted when launching, squirters and pump cams won't help you.

If it's a bit lean up top, when you dump the clutch and load the engine off the two step, I bet it's spiking even leaner. Jet it up and see how it reacts. I'd try the jetting Brian suggested. Also look up the factory jetting for the carb and note the jet stagger front to rear and try to run that stagger, or real close, if no PV in rear.

You have plenty of stuff to try. Personally, I'd start with getting the carb jetted for max MPH, then start tweeking with other stuff.

Yes you need a notched float to run those jet extensions.

It's all trial and error.

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 08:19 PM

Quote:

If you have it matted when launching, squirters and pump cams won't help you.

If it's a bit lean up top, when you dump the clutch and load the engine off the two step, I bet it's spiking even leaner. Jet it up and see how it reacts. I'd try the jetting Brian suggested. Also look up the factory jetting for the carb and note the jet stagger front to rear and try to run that stagger, or real close, if no PV in rear.

You have plenty of stuff to try. Personally, I'd start with getting the carb jetted for max MPH, then start tweeking with other stuff.

Yes you need a notched float to run those jet extensions.

It's all trial and error.

The stock jetting was 75 primary, 80 secondary..Brian's suggestion was 74 primary, 80 secondary, so i think i will try that and see what happens since it will be a touch leaner than the stock jetting, which was slightly rich on my last motor. I am using a power valve, but I was wondering what would be the difference of benefit from going to the 4.5 pv opposed to the 3.5 i have in it now.

I will be ordering the jet extensions tommorow along with the floats. Thanks!

Posted By: 1Fast340

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 08:20 PM

always nice to se video and pics of your car! and congrats thats some pretty good runs

as for technical i have no idea,but i may pick up some good information in this thread:) your tirepreasure has me thinking alitle on improvements for a friend

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 08:24 PM

I was wondering what would be the difference of benefit from going to the 4.5 pv opposed to the 3.5 i have in it now.

I will be ordering the jet extensions tommorow along with the floats. Thanks!

The 4.5 PV will open sooner than the 3.5

Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 09:36 PM

I think guys were assuming you weren't leaving matted and still had some pump shot left to play with.

The 4.5 will open earlier than a 3.5 would. Not sure how that would effect anything at the track because it's likely open from the time you mat it. If you had a vacuum gauge you could observe it when matting. You could test it at home, put it on the two step and see what it reads. If vacuum is below the PV number, it's open.

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 10:07 PM

will do!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CksEflD0KwE
have to work out my 60 foot problems too!

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 11:43 PM

Quote:

I think guys were assuming you weren't leaving matted and still had some pump shot left to play with.

The 4.5 will open earlier than a 3.5 would. Not sure how that would effect anything at the track because it's likely open from the time you mat it. If you had a vacuum gauge you could observe it when matting. You could test it at home, put it on the two step and see what it reads. If vacuum is below the PV number, it's open.

no, im definitely leaving matted...sitting on that 5k chip till the light goes green.

I thought about the pv too for the track, and im already leaving at WOT, not sure how it would affect things...but that garage test sounds like a good idea. This week before i get out to the track im gonna take the carb apart, reset the jets, add the secondary extentions and notched float, change squirters, and make sure the accelerator pumps are correct...i'll try the different pump cams out at the track and see what it likes...Im really hopint the car will run even harder after this

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/14/11 11:44 PM

Quote:

will do!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CksEflD0KwE
have to work out my 60 foot problems too!

Sweet, I have pictures of your GTX from a couple of years ago! One of the only mopars ive ever seen there! I will definitely stop by if your up there, so let me know

nice pass in that vid too

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/15/11 12:54 AM

Poor 60 foot but otherwise Good for the hot humid air!
Hope to be there Saturday will let you know!

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/18/11 04:20 AM

So I just finished making some changes to my carburetor. I jetted the carb up from 75/76 to Brian's recommended specs of 74/80 (factory on this carb was 75/80). I also changed to a .31 squirter front and rear, and I also added the blue cams. I double checked my pump arm adjustments, and I also installed a secondary jet extension and notched float. Tommorow im going to do a little more fine tuning to see where im at with this, as I now have the ability to datalog with my AFR gauge via the computer- Gonna make a small pass just to get an idea of where I am jetting wise

I am heading up to the track this friday night for test and tune, and I will be staying overnight to get some more runs in on the saturday. Can't wait, should be some more fun times

Gonna fool around with the carb and tire pressure some and see what what happens

Posted By: Stroker Scamp

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/18/11 05:52 AM

yup you have some mph there, when i ran the 360 in the scamp i ran 12.30 at 111, good lookin car and congrats on the shifting

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/21/11 05:37 PM

Well I got out to the track this past Friday with some better results than last time...starting to head in the right direction

With the new jetting on the carb, tires at 12psi, caltracs on zero preload again with the shocks on 7, leaving at 5k off the two step, and I picked up mph right away and ran a 12.518 at 109.63mph. The car 60'ed a 1.78. I tried another run with everything the same but a 5500rpm launch instead and ran a 12.56 at 109.08, but 60's suffered to a 1.82

I made 7 passes again, but on 3 passes I missed 2nd-3rd gear (v-gate got trapped in the middle of the two gates, didnt push her hard enough), so i never really got to make all out passes...my 60's were all in the high 1.7's though, with the occasional 1.8. I tried stiffening the shocks up a little, up to 9, as well as airing up the tires, but it didnt make much of a difference. I also couldn't jet up at all since the crappy dual feed chrome line for the carb got all chewed up on the nuts when i began loosening them with a 1/2 line wrench (a brand new snap on one too!)...So that is going to have to be changed before next time too, since i dont know if the car had more in it or not mph wise.

Best pass of the night was the last one- 12.496 at 109.98mph (i think it picked up due to the cool night air) with a measly 1.8 60' ft.

I really think the car has more e/t in it, but my 60's are really sufferring due to my bog im still getting. I upped the tire pressure to 14psi about half way through the night, and it seemed to help a little. Next time out im thinking of trying them at 16psi and seeing what happens. Not sure what else to do, as the car didnt seem to like the higher launch rpm- it 60'ed worse and the suspension seemed like it wanted to hop. Im also thinking of next time going softer on the shocks instead of stiffer and seeing what happens, although i know it being a stick that may be counter productive, but its worth a try

Gonna try and post some vids up so you guys can see the suspension working...im outta ideas on how to get rid of the bog- i think if i dropped my 60's to 1.7 flat, or even a high 1.6, i would definitely e/t a low 12, which would be awesome

thanks to all for the help so far!

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/22/11 12:44 AM

here is an in car vid from my first time out launching at 4k...gives an idea of what the bog was like...its less leaving higher, but still there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQF8OxVuyYU

And here was a pass from last night to get an idea of how it was hooking....shocks were on 9 on this run, up from 7..and the tires were at 12 psi as opposed to the 9-10 i was running on my first outing...Im thinking the tires like less air as my 60's seemed better the first night, but the bog is definitely worse with the lower air pressure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPEqli16UHE

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/22/11 01:01 AM

Something you might want to try is take the throttle and hold it in the position it takes to make the motor turn 5000 RPM running and then shut the motor off, move the throttle to that position and then mat it, count how long the pump shot lasts

You might need a different pump cam or bigger or smaller squirters to see what work bests on your car

The sqirters take a while to discharge all the fuel out of accelerator pump well

You need enough pump shot to take it from the transition or idle circuit to the main circuit without the bog. All the stickshift SB cars I raced (including one with a 3.09 first gear and a 5.57 rear gear and 13x31x15 stick shift slicks) would bog some at WOT when I dump the clutch when racing

All the BB or Hemi stick cars would spin the tires

Ain't racing fun

Posted By: 68shifter

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/22/11 01:27 AM

You said a centerforce clutch correct? Any idea of base pressure on that, I think around 3000 but I'm not sure.
Also your rear tires, are they bias or radial?
I dont think carb is your issue. Try lowering your launch rpm or keep adding tire psi.
That thing has to slip/spin somewhere or 1st gear or your pig won't have many passes left.
Good luck, real good looking car.

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/22/11 01:34 AM

It seems like the engine is being loaded real heavy when you let the clutch out...kinda like a 3000rpm converter when it wants a 5700rpm converter.

I'm pretty sure you'd have to gear it really low to get rid of that. Just looks like not enough gear. But I know it's a street car so....

Plus it's spinning the tire pretty good. You need that front end to come up super easy. Pretty damn good results from a 4 row and low buck engine build! Such a pretty car too!! Now I need to go wax my pig

It's almost impossible to have a drag car and a street car all at the same time. Congrats on the new bests!!
Brian

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/22/11 04:00 AM

Quote:

Something you might want to try is take the throttle and hold it in the position it takes to make the motor turn 5000 RPM running and then shut the motor off, move the throttle to that position and then mat it, count how long the pump shot lasts You might need a different pump cam or bigger or smaller squirters to see what work bests on your car The sqirters take a while to discharge all the fuel out of accelerator pump well You need enough pump shot to take it from the transition or idle circuit to the main circuit without the bog. All the stickshift SB cars I raced (including one with a 3.09 first gear and a 5.57 rear gear and 13x31x15 stick shift slicks) would bog some at WOT when I dump the clutch when racing All the BB or Hemi stick cars would spin the tires Ain't racing fun

well I have gone to the blue squirters, which would seem to be more aggressive than the pinks i had before on hole #1. I also adjusted the pump arms...I guess I could try that thing of checking with the motor off...but im leaving with the throttle matted, so i can't seem to see it being a carb issue....but who knows....I will have to try and see

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/22/11 04:02 AM

Quote:

You said a centerforce clutch correct? Any idea of base pressure on that, I think around 3000 but I'm not sure.
Also your rear tires, are they bias or radial?
I dont think carb is your issue. Try lowering your launch rpm or keep adding tire psi.
That thing has to slip/spin somewhere or 1st gear or your pig won't have many passes left.
Good luck, real good looking car.

Yes, centerforce dual friction...and the base pressure on these increases the higher you launch it...but it seems that when i launch it lower, the bogging is worse, thats why i upped the launch rpm's

my tires are bias ply e/t streets...The tires are spinning about 1-2 revolutions on launch (or so it seems to me from looking at the video)..I was thinking of upping the air some more next time out and just seeing what it does

I am running a Dana 60 with 35 spline guts, so im not too worried about breakage, but i know it is definitely still possible, which is why im trying to get the car to spin a little off the launch

What would lowering the launch rpm do? just help not stress the driveline parts so much?

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/22/11 04:07 AM

Quote:

It seems like the engine is being loaded real heavy when you let the clutch out...kinda like a 3000rpm converter when it wants a 5700rpm converter.

I'm pretty sure you'd have to gear it really low to get rid of that. Just looks like not enough gear. But I know it's a street car so....

Plus it's spinning the tire pretty good. You need that front end to come up super easy. Pretty damn good results from a 4 row and low buck engine build! Such a pretty car too!! Now I need to go wax my pig

It's almost impossible to have a drag car and a street car all at the same time. Congrats on the new bests!!
Brian

Hey Brian, i can't stand the compromises lol...I drive it to the track the two hours there and two hours back- with the 4.10's and 28's im spinning 3k the whole way, gets old real quick lol...I know it definitely needs more gear, probably a 4.56 or maybe more, but it just can't happen with how much i drive the car...just so its clear, the in car vid was a 4k launch...im launching the car at 5k now, which has seemed to be helping, but the bog is still there

The front end is coming up real well, couple of passes had daylight under the front tires...i think this bog is whats killing me, but even then, the car is running awesome for how simple of a combo it is..I can't thank you enough for the cam and heads, they flat out work

...I need to try jetting up, but as i said, i had troubles with my crappy dual feed line, so i have to get that sorted out first

Either way im having a blast, and its nice to tell guys I have a junkyard shortblock motor thats pushing my 3400lb pig to mid 12's with a 4 speed

Posted By: 68shifter

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/22/11 04:28 AM

My reason on lowering launch rpm is to limit the load on the clutch. If you increase leave rpm your trying to move all that 3400 at once, plus more if base pressure increases. As compared you find must of us run around 720-1100 base pressure with the adjustable clutches to slip there.
2-3 revolutions of the tire is ideal upon leave, sorry couldn't see the tire, I'm on a small phone screen.
Think of leaving like tying a rope around your waste and at the end of 50ft of slack is 3400 pounds...take of running...ouch. Increase rpm, longer rope, same result.
Now use a "tow strap" that absorbs that energy and applies some at first and more later...just a thought.

The car looks great and sounds great. Doesn't matter who owns one, a stick takes time to sort out and you just have to try alot of different stuff.
If it was "automatic" your wife could do it

Keep up the good work.

Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/22/11 04:54 AM

Quote:

I need to try jetting up, but as i said, i had troubles with my crappy dual feed line, so i have to get that sorted out first

cut a 1.5" section out of the chrome line between your bowls and put a piece of hose in there with two clamps. No messing with the bowl fittings, swing bowl out and pull block.

Like this one.

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/22/11 11:10 PM

Quote:

My reason on lowering launch rpm is to limit the load on the clutch. If you increase leave rpm your trying to move all that 3400 at once, plus more if base pressure increases. As compared you find must of us run around 720-1100 base pressure with the adjustable clutches to slip there.
2-3 revolutions of the tire is ideal upon leave, sorry couldn't see the tire, I'm on a small phone screen.
Think of leaving like tying a rope around your waste and at the end of 50ft of slack is 3400 pounds...take of running...ouch. Increase rpm, longer rope, same result.
Now use a "tow strap" that absorbs that energy and applies some at first and more later...just a thought.

The car looks great and sounds great. Doesn't matter who owns one, a stick takes time to sort out and you just have to try alot of different stuff.
If it was "automatic" your wife could do it

Keep up the good work.

I see what you are saying...I guess im going to have to try that too...ideally i wish i could use an adjustable clutch, but i don't have the funds, and the car doesn't see the track enough for it (although i wish it did, but thats more a distance issue than anything).

And let me tell you, this car will NEVER be getting an automatic, i dont care if its got a brake or a manual vb...nothing is as fun as dumping the clutch off a two step and powershifting every gear...im addicted with no cure in sight! lol...plus if i go auto, im gonna need the matching purse and wallet for it, which I can't afford

Posted By: mshred

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/22/11 11:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I need to try jetting up, but as i said, i had troubles with my crappy dual feed line, so i have to get that sorted out first

cut a 1.5" section out of the chrome line between your bowls and put a piece of hose in there with two clamps. No messing with the bowl fittings, swing bowl out and pull block.

Like this one.

that is genius! why the heck didn't I think of something like that before man lol...thanks!

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Finally got out to the track last night!!... - 08/23/11 12:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I need to try jetting up, but as i said, i had troubles with my crappy dual feed line, so i have to get that sorted out first

cut a 1.5" section out of the chrome line between your bowls and put a piece of hose in there with two clamps. No messing with the bowl fittings, swing bowl out and pull block.

Like this one.

You sure arent NHRA legal with all that hose

Finally got out to the track last night!!...Updated!!!