440 head gaskets

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

440 head gaskets - 08/09/11 03:15 PM

I am trying to settle on a head gasket set for my car. 11:1 compression, zero deck, .040 over TRW flat top pistons with 915 heads that will be a street car.
Read all the posts I could find and for a .039" compression height (trying for quench here) it seems some are recommending the Felpro Marine Gaskets others insist on Cometic but the prices are quite high for my budget.
Not sure if I need the fire ring style gaskets for this or if they are good insurance?

Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/09/11 03:18 PM

Go with the Fel pro

Posted By: therocks

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/09/11 03:19 PM

I run the Marines on my 12.5 440 with Stealths.Put my old reworked 516s on the 62 300 with the 1009s.My 440 will clatter a bit under heavy pull with 93 octane.The 300 runs on it just fine.Rocky

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/09/11 03:40 PM

I'd think a zero deck 440 w/ 915's would be a tad high thant 11:1 even with fel-pro's.
That said Fel-Pros.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/09/11 05:47 PM

Quote:

I'd think a zero deck 440 w/ 915's would be a tad high thant 11:1 even with fel-pro's.
That said Fel-Pros.

How can you say that with the info he posted ?

I just ran the numbers assuming .040 overbore , 5cc valve reliefs, 80 cc heads and a 4.410/.039 gasket and get 10.55 , if the heads are 76 it's only 10.97.

Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/09/11 06:04 PM

Toss a bit more camshaft at it if the worry is dynamic compression...
I would love those numbers in a street car...

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/09/11 06:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'd think a zero deck 440 w/ 915's would be a tad high thant 11:1 even with fel-pro's.
That said Fel-Pros.

How can you say that with the info he posted ?

I just ran the numbers assuming .040 overbore , 5cc valve reliefs, 80 cc heads and a 4.410/.039 gasket and get 10.55 , if the heads are 76 it's only 10.97.

I was thinking they'd be closer to 76cc. not 80.

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/09/11 07:04 PM

Planning to use a Hughes cam and springs at present (haven't purchased a cam yet.)
Here's what I am looking at:

HEH3237BL

110 LSA
Intake/exhaust duration @ .050 232/237
Lift with 1.6 roller rockers: .576/.584

I'll go ahead and order the Felpro Marine Gaskets part #17059.

I really appreciate the help.
BTW this is all for the car in my sig.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/09/11 08:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I'd think a zero deck 440 w/ 915's would be a tad high thant 11:1 even with fel-pro's.
That said Fel-Pros.

How can you say that with the info he posted ?

I just ran the numbers assuming .040 overbore , 5cc valve reliefs, 80 cc heads and a 4.410/.039 gasket and get 10.55 , if the heads are 76 it's only 10.97.

I was thinking they'd be closer to 76cc. not 80.

They are over 80 stock , the set I have are 81

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/10/11 01:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I'd think a zero deck 440 w/ 915's would be a tad high thant 11:1 even with fel-pro's.
That said Fel-Pros.

How can you say that with the info he posted ?

I just ran the numbers assuming .040 overbore , 5cc valve reliefs, 80 cc heads and a 4.410/.039 gasket and get 10.55 , if the heads are 76 it's only 10.97.

I was thinking they'd be closer to 76cc. not 80.

They are over 80 stock , the set I have are 81

Mine must have been milled a bunch because they were 74. I though stock 906's were 84?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/10/11 03:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I'd think a zero deck 440 w/ 915's would be a tad high thant 11:1 even with fel-pro's.
That said Fel-Pros.

How can you say that with the info he posted ?

I just ran the numbers assuming .040 overbore , 5cc valve reliefs, 80 cc heads and a 4.410/.039 gasket and get 10.55 , if the heads are 76 it's only 10.97.

I was thinking they'd be closer to 76cc. not 80.

They are over 80 stock , the set I have are 81

Mine must have been milled a bunch because they were 74. I though stock 906's were 84?

yours were milled a bunch , 906's are 90-92cc factory fresh

Posted By: marvo451

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/10/11 03:47 PM

A good way to "guesstimate" the amount of milling is to measure the outside head bolt boss. Stock it is very close to 1.00 inch.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/10/11 03:57 PM

yours were milled a bunch , 906's are 90-92cc factory fresh

I had worked 516's

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/10/11 04:03 PM

Quote:

A good way to "guesstimate" the amount of milling is to measure the outside head bolt boss. Stock it is very close to 1.00 inch.

CC em and find out for SURE where they are...........I wouldn`t want to "estimate" my ring end gap.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/10/11 07:08 PM

Quote:

yours were milled a bunch , 906's are 90-92cc factory fresh

I had worked 516's

but the OP has 915's

and they were also milled a bunch , as stated above , measure the head bolt boss under the exh ports , factory is 1.00

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/10/11 07:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

yours were milled a bunch , 906's are 90-92cc factory fresh

I had worked 516's

but the OP has 915's and they were also milled a bunch , as stated above , measure the head bolt boss under the exh ports , factory is 1.00

I will do that and CC them as well. May be a couple of days before I post the results.

Posted By: joelson6

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/11/11 02:51 AM

Quote:

Planning to use a Hughes cam and springs at present (haven't purchased a cam yet.)
Here's what I am looking at:

HEH3237BL

110 LSA
Intake/exhaust duration @ .050 232/237
Lift with 1.6 roller rockers: .576/.584

I'll go ahead and order the Felpro Marine Gaskets part #17059.

I really appreciate the help.
BTW this is all for the car in my sig.

i'm using the HEH3742BL which is one up from the cam you picked, i'm running 1.5 ratio. very nice cam, i like it a lot. not super serious with my racing. i have a '74 challenger, 11:1 440, indy E-Z heads. 4 speed 3.73 gears on 28" drag radials. it usually runs 11.6 to 11.8 @ 118mph. probably could do better with the ET

Posted By: steeldust

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/11/11 03:54 AM

Quote:

I am trying to settle on a head gasket set for my car. 11:1 compression, zero deck, .040 over TRW flat top pistons with 915 heads that will be a street car.
Read all the posts I could find and for a .039" compression height (trying for quench here) it seems some are recommending the Felpro Marine Gaskets others insist on Cometic but the prices are quite high for my budget.
Not sure if I need the fire ring style gaskets for this or if they are good insurance?

Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.

Here`s what i did run on a 446 with a 150 shot and run 6.0s all day long Mr gasket #7115 it was a kit $43.99 they was 28" thick but with my 572 i run COMETIC 41" thick they are $100.00 a ea. But FEL PRO #1009 makes a 39" thick for $41.99 ea . hope this helps good luck.

Attached picture 6773333-JUNEBOUNTYRACE.jpg

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/14/11 02:39 AM

I purchased the Fel-Pro Marine Gaskets #17059 after a mental struggle over the Mr. Gasket #5784.
Hope to have the CC number on the heads by Wednesday.

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/15/11 08:07 PM

78 cc on the combustion chambers which I believe means they were only cleaned up not milled. Mopar Muscle article says the 915 heads were 78.5 cc stock. My stock 906s were about 88 cc IIRC.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/16/11 02:42 PM

Quote:

78 cc on the combustion chambers which I believe means they were only cleaned up not milled. Mopar Muscle article says the 915 heads were 78.5 cc stock. My stock 906s were about 88 cc IIRC.

The mopar muscle article is WRONG , The 915's I have are 81ccand the few sets of never cut 906's I have done or had done have never been less than 90 cc , some as high as 92cc.

Get a pair of dial calipers and measure the thickness of the head bolt boss under the exhaust ports this will give you an idea how much they have been cut, factory heads seems to be 1.000 .

Posted By: buck440

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/18/11 12:13 AM

Posted By: Mike Swann

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/18/11 01:09 AM

I ran the felpro blue many a time at 13:1 with the 517 head, same way, no problems. Nitrous didnt exist and that was the most advanced gasket available.

Posted By: ahy

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/18/11 01:14 AM

I believe the Felpro perma-torque would do great in your application. From memory it is .038-.039 which should be perfect for quench. Iron head, iron block moderate CR and 5 bolts per cylinder. Very easy to seal.

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/18/11 06:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

78 cc on the combustion chambers which I believe means they were only cleaned up not milled. Mopar Muscle article says the 915 heads were 78.5 cc stock. My stock 906s were about 88 cc IIRC.

The mopar muscle article is WRONG , The 915's I have are 81ccand the few sets of never cut 906's I have done or had done have never been less than 90 cc , some as high as 92cc.

Get a pair of dial calipers and measure the thickness of the head bolt boss under the exhaust ports this will give you an idea how much they have been cut, factory heads seems to be 1.000 .

Boss measures 1.000 - 1.003"
When CCing a chamber do you try to keep the fluid level to the head surface or allow it to "baloon" upward?
With the heads perfectly level I filled the chambers so the water did not extend above the head surface - this gave me the 78 measurement. If I allowed it to protrude above the head surface but not break over the edge of the chamber it was closer to 81 CCs.
I would think it needs to stay level with the surface myself but not sure about correct procedure.

Posted By: marvo451

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/18/11 06:48 PM

You need a piece of plexiglas greased and sealed to the head surface. Drill a small hole in the plexiglas and fill until the chamber is just full and all air has escaped. Tilting the head some helps accomplish this.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/20/11 01:10 PM

Quote:

You need a piece of plexiglas greased and sealed to the head surface. Drill a small hole in the plexiglas and fill until the chamber is just full and all air has escaped. Tilting the head some helps accomplish this.

78cc with a 1.000 reading , that's interesting...

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/20/11 02:39 PM

Quote:

You need a piece of plexiglas greased and sealed to the head surface. Drill a small hole in the plexiglas and fill until the chamber is just full and all air has escaped. Tilting the head some helps accomplish this.

When I get a chance I'll try it this way.
Thanks.

Posted By: Get-X

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/20/11 02:47 PM

It will vary a lot depending on the valve job and the valve head. Put a set of valves in that have a flat head replacing the OE dished head valves and you'll see different cc values.

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/20/11 06:00 PM

Quote:

It will vary a lot depending on the valve job and the valve head. Put a set of valves in that have a flat head replacing the OE dished head valves and you'll see different cc values.

These already have the 2.14/1.81 valves with hardened seats installed so the surface is flat.
I'll need to use the plexiglass method to be sure of my results either way.

Posted By: Von

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/20/11 09:57 PM

A set of 452s I have measured 4ccs less with just a valve change.

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/20/11 11:56 PM

Okay, I used the plexiglass method on two different chambers and the result was 74cc. Did this three times on each chamber with only one reading at 74 1/2 cc so it was very consistent. Apparently I was letting the water balloon up over the head surface last time when my results were 78 cc.

Measured the boss under the exhaust port on the second head and it too came in at 1.000-1.002"

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/21/11 04:23 PM

What are you using to put the liquid into the chamber ?

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/21/11 11:55 PM

A 12cc hypodermic needle. Slow but with the plexiglass it was easy to see when full.
I know its not the ideal way but its all I have hence the reason I did it 3 times in each chamber.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/23/11 01:43 PM

Quote:

A 12cc hypodermic needle. Slow but with the plexiglass it was easy to see when full.
I know its not the ideal way but its all I have hence the reason I did it 3 times in each chamber.

Did you use a yardstick to measure the head bolt boss also ?

, laugh , it was a joke

Something is not right to me , your 2 numbers do not jive.

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/23/11 03:39 PM

I know it sounds silly but hey you use what you have on hand.
As for the bosses I used micrometers so I am certain on those measurements.
Also, I sent a request to the original owner of the heads who had the valves replaced to find out if they cc'd them at that time.
I post the numbers if he sends them.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 440 head gaskets - 08/23/11 04:00 PM

i'll have to go a remeasure the boss on my 915's now ... I measured the chambers with the Summit burret kit so I know it's real close .