What would it take....

Posted By: ProSport

Re: What would it take.... - 08/06/11 03:13 AM

Bill I think it would cost alot of money to switch a small block car over to a big block car, especially when you add up all the little stuff like headers, tranny case, converter, maybe radiator??

But if you really want to do it you could build a mild pump gas 451 low deck or 470 with CNC Eddy heads, or Victors, with a matching solid or roller cam and run 9.50's-9.80's in your car all day. My old DartSport as Sport440 mentioned went 9.77 at Norwalk last September.
Or you could just buy my purple 69' and run those numbers on pump gas at 3200 pounds.

Posted By: TheBlackCar

Re: What would it take.... - 08/06/11 03:40 AM

Decent piston
Crane R280 cam
Ported 452/906 heads
M1 w/adapter and a 1050
Compression 14:1 +
Good machine work and a little attention to details
Keep the timing in check and live with the minimal cap walk.

Hardly 12k, more like 3k (assuming you have a carb and can do some work yourself), and will exceed your ET expectations. More perf should be expected with a set of heads, but not necessary.

Good Luck

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: What would it take.... - 08/06/11 03:40 AM

B1 heads would be the easiest way...

Posted By: bumps440

Re: What would it take.... - 08/06/11 03:50 AM

Quote:

to make a stock steel crank 440 run 9.70's in a 2900# A-body?,I need suggestions and combo's including heads and cam's.

Why would that be hard????
I dont think so at all.

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: What would it take.... - 08/06/11 04:45 AM

Somewhere around 680HP...Probably could get there with ported Victor MW heads and a nice roller cam.
Might even make more than that if you've got good headers, carb, etc...

Posted By: 383man

Re: What would it take.... - 08/06/11 04:56 AM

Quote:

Bill I think it would cost alot of money to switch a small block car over to a big block car, especially when you add up all the little stuff like headers, tranny case, converter, maybe radiator??

But if you really want to do it you could build a mild pump gas 451 low deck or 470 with CNC Eddy heads, or Victors, with a matching solid or roller cam and run 9.50's-9.80's in your car all day. My old DartSport as Sport440 mentioned went 9.77 at Norwalk last September.
Or you could just buy my purple 69' and run those numbers on pump gas at 3200 pounds.

Your old Dart Sport was a great running combo.

Maybe you should tell the details of that great running combo. That combo just clicked perfectly.

Ron

Posted By: B3422W5

Re: What would it take.... - 08/06/11 05:00 PM

Not to pile on......but why in the WORLD are you asking

Posted By: roadhazard

Re: What would it take.... - 08/06/11 06:19 PM

Calculating the 1/10th per 100# guideline I'd like to think if I removed 425# from my 3,325# pig 9.70's wouldn't be out of the question

Flat top, flat tappet, with 915's & a single plane street intake

Looking for a motor Bill?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: What would it take.... - 08/06/11 07:26 PM

Cost factor would be a problem Bill... if I recall you
run 10.0 now so for .3 you want to change over everything
you have now... trans, engine, headers, conv.... no
way is that worth it... time to start looking a little
closer at your current package.... or loose some weight
on the car

Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: What would it take.... - 08/06/11 07:42 PM

Stock block with a affordable stroker kit (493/499) Indy SR heads with some port work (home porting in this case) Indy Intake, Dominator, small roller cam. 5800+ converter, and 4.56 gears. Turn it 6600 rpms..
No problem, actually the car in this example is closer to 3200 lbs and runs 6.oh's in the 8th mile.

Posted By: dartman366

Re: What would it take.... - 08/06/11 09:19 PM

Quote:

Not to pile on......but why in the WORLD are you asking

Don! calm down buddy, ain't nothing happened yet or soon...just askin' questions thats how I learn,,,,,,,,,,,,besides it proves that you really were payin' attention.

Posted By: JERICOGTX

Re: What would it take.... - 08/06/11 10:12 PM

Quote:

Stock block with a affordable stroker kit (493/499) Indy SR heads with some port work (home porting in this case) Indy Intake, Dominator, small roller cam. 5800+ converter, and 4.56 gears. Turn it 6600 rpms..
No problem, actually the car in this example is closer to 3200 lbs and runs 6.oh's in the 8th mile.

My combo, only 3430lbs and runs 9.90's-10.0's all day long. Should be a piece of cake at 2900lbs.

Posted By: b1dartsport

Re: What would it take.... - 08/06/11 10:51 PM

Bill, I know this is not what you originally asked but I have an idea which would be economical & reach your ET goals with ease. Buy Jesse Bigg's Arrow which is in the race car section right now. Drop your small block & 904 in this car & you would have an easy low 9 to high 8 second combo for $6,500 & headers & driveshaft. You could also run that car in nostagic pro stock. If you decided to sell your car afterwards you could probably make money on the deal. I know this is probably off base for you,but think how long it took you to figure out your present engine/trans combo. You would have to start all over again with a big block. Just my

Posted By: fishy340

Re: What would it take.... - 08/06/11 11:23 PM

about 400 bucks worth of parts if u talk to mryuck..!

Posted By: DoubleD

Re: What would it take.... - 08/06/11 11:59 PM

Oh that would be fun to do! Real easy to do with just the parts on Russ's shelf. A set of EZ-1 heads - a certain special roller cam grind - some nice compression 14-1 - run all day in upper nines. You need a good set of rods and a good solid block. The 451 Combo with the 400 block does work best.

Or I could unbolt my street motor - change the intake and cam and watch you fly.

Posted By: dustergirl340

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 12:43 AM

I can't figure out how there are STILL 13 and 14 second big block cars if they are sooooo cheap to build. lol...

Posted By: Leigh

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 12:47 AM

1 or 20 passes, no big deal. 750 pass maintainence shedule @ that et, be ready to spend your dollars on either upfront items, or, repair costs. Ain't nothin' free. I see, billet crank, billet rods, good block, good heads, roller and rockers, oil system, it adds up rather quickly. If the 3K deal can hang, I'm an a s s. I don't really think so.

Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 12:53 AM

Quote:

1 or 20 passes, no big deal. 750 pass maintainence shedule @ that et, be ready to spend your dollars on either upfront items, or, repair costs. Ain't nothin' free. I see, billet crank, billet rods, good block, good heads, roller and rockers, oil system, it adds up rather quickly. If the 3K deal can hang, I'm an a s s. I don't really think so.

MY 'estimate' DID include labor...if he had a LOT of the bare essentials,,,,

Posted By: Leigh

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 01:06 AM

This is where I can stand on my "soap box" Big block, small block, best brand or brand X. If you want to build a low mantainence, fast engine, the costs are going to be fairly close. Price a Bryant or Callies crank, Crower or Oliver rods, Mopar, Keith Black, or other blocks, CFE or equivelent head porters heads , Milodon or equivelent oil pans. I think I'm up to $15K, and I haven't selected a builder yet.

Posted By: mike54

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 01:32 AM

going by a friends experience....id say $10,000-$12,000

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 02:18 AM

compression, big solid roller cam, ported Indy/B1 heads, 5000 stall, 4.88's should do it. Or you could just go the easy route and boost the thing

Posted By: dartman366

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 02:52 AM

Quote:

This is where I can stand on my "soap box" Big block, small block, best brand or brand X. If you want to build a low mantainence, fast engine, the costs are going to be fairly close. Price a Bryant or Callies crank, Crower or Oliver rods, Mopar, Keith Black, or other blocks, CFE or equivelent head porters heads , Milodon or equivelent oil pans. I think I'm up to $15K, and I haven't selected a builder yet.

All that just to run high nines??? all I am looking to do is run ten flat with a FACTORY production block but have a little cushion for the hot summer months even if I have to throttle it back to keep from going under in the spring and fall, there is no way I will spend that kind of money on that quality of part just to bracket race on the weekend's if this was a max effort deal then yeah give me the best and the highest dollar part I can get,,I don't even have that quality of stuff in the smallblock I am running now and it will run the number for the most part but I don't like the fact that I don't have that cushion to fall back on,,you see it's a little more than just running that particular number, it a fact that I have never built a big block and would like to get my hand's dirty in one, I think I have the capability to build a good low dollar engine to run where I want it to and not break the bank,or itself I just wanted to hear other peoples opinion's and combo's,,I respect your opinion about using the high dollar internals but that would be a deal breaker for me as I cannot afford the top shelf stuff.

Posted By: Leigh

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 03:08 AM

Reality sucks, to be sure. Why not just tweek what you have, and move forward? Why to you think things like KB blocks, 2,000 rods, 2,000 cranks exist? Play large, or play realistic, the choice is up to you and your budget. It all works, just not to all.

Posted By: 69dart

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 04:55 AM

Sure would be a lot easier to add a 100 HP shot to your existing combo for a little insurance in the 10.0 races. Maybe set it to only come on in High Gear.

Posted By: viperblue72

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 05:33 AM

I know of a very basic engine combo that was running 9.6s@140 in a dart. It is a 493 with edelbrock rpms and a .690 roller. He recently brought compression down to 12to1 from 14to1 and downsized the cam to a 640 lift and still running 9.7-9.8s....

Posted By: tboomer

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 12:36 PM

Bill...I think you are running pretty good!

I would work with what you have!!

Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 01:00 PM

About 4 million ways to make 650hp with a stock stroke 440. Even with ported iron heads.

How much ya wanna spend and how "stock" do ya want it to look???

Posted By: aarcudaden

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 05:05 PM

Bill, do i need to come up there and smack that big block nonsince outa your head

Besides why do ya wanna slow down for

Posted By: deaks

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 07:28 PM

In a 2900# car, there's no way you need all those exotic parts to go 9.7. look at Dom's and Bob's cars, amongst others, all heavier and into the 9's with RPM heads.
Cudadon is at that weight and is going 9.44 with a 451 with stage 6 heads.
Mick

Posted By: dartman366

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 08:48 PM

well, I need to freshen up the 408 this winter, so I may see what I need to do to give it a little more and then run it another season, but I am still concidering going to a BB before I stop racing,,,,if I ever do

, I just want to build a solid combo that will run all day and never lift the hood between round's, I think a mild big block with the right combo of parts will get me where I want to be and not have to run the dog dodo out of it to run the numbers I want.

Thanks for the pm dap.

Posted By: Leon441

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 09:52 PM

If you feel you are running the dog doo doo out of your 408. There is a very simple fix. More stroke less RPM same HP and a little more torque. BPE, Callies and many others have 4.250 stroke cranks. Then you can be a little easier on your engine and still get it done.

If you must, add 200 lbs to the front k-member so you feel like you are running a Big Block.

Seriously stroke is the quick answer to your concerns.

Leon

Posted By: VernMotor

Re: What would it take.... - 08/07/11 10:04 PM

How about this..$8-$12,000 to change over. and yes you can sell you motor-trans-headers. for $$$ but you still going to spend $2-3,000 after that. So what could you do to your small block for $2-3,000 ?
your car is great for super pro. but you just need a little for 10.o class. Not sure there is much that you can do to the car it self. Not sure spending 4-5.000 on your combo is a bad idea..And I don't need to tell you this is coming from a big block guy.

Posted By: rt66jim

Re: What would it take.... - 08/08/11 05:35 PM

Bill, are you running gas or alcohol now? If gas the switch to alcohol might pick it up for you. It would sure make it more consistent all season long.

Posted By: dartman366

Re: What would it take.... - 08/08/11 06:17 PM

Quote:

Bill, are you running gas or alcohol now? If gas the switch to alcohol might pick it up for you. It would sure make it more consistent all season long.

running gas now, thought about running alky,need to read up on it and learn about it,,,are there any good articles about it??

Posted By: max_maniac

Re: What would it take.... - 08/08/11 06:22 PM

Quote:

well, I need to freshen up the 408 this winter, so I may see what I need to do to give it a little more and then run it another season, but I am still concidering going to a BB before I stop racing,,,,if I ever do , I just want to build a solid combo that will run all day and never lift the hood between round's, I think a mild big block with the right combo of parts will get me where I want to be and not have to run the dog dodo out of it to run the numbers I want .

Bill, remember my 30 over 440 in the 64 car? 4.15 stroke, Indy EZ heads with MW port but not cnc ported all the way and a mild 670 roller took my 3100lb B-Body to 9.80 and could have done more but I slowed it down trying to stay at 10.0. Hardly ever opened the hood but I did lose the hood at the top end a couple times I think with what you want your thinking of a mild BB is on target

Russ