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JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make??

Posted By: StrokerAspen

JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 02:42 AM

Just did the break in on the engine, and it is currently on the pump ready to make some pulls! Any guesses what it will make? The engine dyno is a manual run Stuska water brake.

468ci.
R3 tall deck 48 degree siamezed block (673AD)
4.250" stroke
4.185" bore
6.300" rod
1050 dominator
1" plastic 4 hole spacer
2" 4500 to 4150 adapter
Victor W2 intake
Econo W2's Ported by Brian at IMM Engine & Dyno
52cc chambers
13.3:1 compression
1.7:1 T&D Rockers
2.02" intake / 1.60" exhaust
Comp solid roller
277/284 @ .050"
.748"/.714" lift
110 LSA with 2 degree advance built in.
Hedman Huslers
1-7/8" primaries
3.5" collector



Let me know if I missed anything. I am kind of in a hurry. Going to go yank some pulls now!

-Kenny
Posted By: quick77rt

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 02:51 AM

Nice build stroker, I feel the heads wont support that many cubic inches to max it out.

If you got 320 out of the heads 640hp Id hope alot more since 600 plus can be done with alot less.

Our 408/410s make 1.5 per easy, do you think near 700hp is possible??

Whats your target hp????

Good luck on the pump and let us know. I know the w2-s can be very surprising power wise.

Let me know if I missed anything. I am kind of in a hurry.....Um carb would be nice
Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 03:14 AM

Quote:

Let me know if I missed anything. I am kind of in a hurry.....Um carb would be nice



Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 03:33 AM

The carb is in there. It's a 1050 dominator.


Just hit a speed bump on the first pull. Had a intake push rod fail. The ball came off and made a mess of an adjuster and the rocker. I will phone Smith Brothers and get a few extra, and hopefully T&D can get me another adjuster.

Any way, keep the guesses coming.
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 03:35 AM

Id say around 400hp if your LUCKY!!!!
Posted By: moparniac

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 03:36 AM

468CI and w2's ? ill guess 650HP for the heck of it!
Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 03:42 AM

Quote:

Id say around 400hp if your LUCKY!!!!



Haha, thanks Mike! Guess again, it made more than that on a half pull on the primaries, with apparently 7 cylinder lol.
Posted By: quick77rt

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 03:55 AM

Dang stroker, you and your pushrods...that blows. But you will get it right and singing like a bee.
Posted By: topbrent

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 04:16 AM

Should be fun in the new car!
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 04:30 AM

I'll guess 622 HP
Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 04:41 AM

Quote:

Should be fun in the new car!



Oh yes! A little lighter than the Aspen. It will go in the aspen for now.
Posted By: 72demon416

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 05:25 AM

You didn't say what intake but I'll say 660 just for giggles.
Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 06:32 AM

Quote:

You didn't say what intake but I'll say 660 just for giggles.



It's there too... W2 Victor intake.
Posted By: ademon

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 06:41 AM

672
Posted By: 72demon416

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 08:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:

You didn't say what intake but I'll say 660 just for giggles.



It's there too... W2 Victor intake.



DOH, my bad
Posted By: viperblue72

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it ma - 07/31/11 08:27 AM

665
Posted By: drago

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 09:01 AM

It'll make 468.5 whorepower. dang it.
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 12:45 PM

710 hp
Posted By: justinp61

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 01:21 PM

725
Posted By: Dragula

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 02:30 PM

It better make more Hp than my Hemi, cause I am pretty sure it cost more....
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 04:48 PM

647 hp, I'll be (pleasently) suprised if you have enough head on it for more, even with the big cam. With those cubes and still smallish ports the torque will be legendary...the kind Vikings write poems about

My question is, why only the 2.02" on such a big cube motor?

Also from my experience the econo's don't seem to rev as high as the billet pedestal W2's when you're dealing with high RPM roller spring pressures.
Posted By: 1Fast340

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 07/31/11 05:07 PM

devilish 666 hp will be my low gues,that thing should make some brutal torque in the midrange the more i look into W2 motors the more impressive they are
Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 03:31 AM

Quote:

647 hp, I'll be (pleasently) suprised if you have enough head on it for more, even with the big cam. With those cubes and still smallish ports the torque will be legendary...the kind Vikings write poems about

My question is, why only the 2.02" on such a big cube motor?

Also from my experience the econo's don't seem to rev as high as the billet pedestal W2's when you're dealing with high RPM roller spring pressures.



Although, this isn't really a "budget build" In a way it still is. The W2's with 2.02" was the top end I have, and if I want to race this year, that's all the budget allows for.

Ideally, If money was no object, and time wasn't my enemy, you would see a set of CFE W8's on this thing! But, again, this makes for a differnt build still, and kind of an out of the ordinary build. My Aspen still has an 8 3/4 with stock everything in it, so, the car isn't really ready for a whole ton of power anyway.

-Kenny
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 03:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

647 hp, I'll be (pleasently) suprised if you have enough head on it for more, even with the big cam. With those cubes and still smallish ports the torque will be legendary...the kind Vikings write poems about

My question is, why only the 2.02" on such a big cube motor?

Also from my experience the econo's don't seem to rev as high as the billet pedestal W2's when you're dealing with high RPM roller spring pressures.



Although, this isn't really a "budget build" In a way it still is. The W2's with 2.02" was the top end I have, and if I want to race this year, that's all the budget allows for.

Ideally, If money was no object, and time wasn't my enemy, you would see a set of CFE W8's on this thing! But, again, this makes for a differnt build still, and kind of an out of the ordinary build. My Aspen still has an 8 3/4 with stock everything in it, so, the car isn't really ready for a whole ton of power anyway.

-Kenny



I'm with Wise and a few others... that thing will
make a TON of torque(watch out for your 8 3/4) but
the cross section of the port isnt anywhere near enough...
so with all that torque I sure hope you dont have
steep gears
Posted By: fishy340

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 03:51 AM

i'd say mid 600's hp...
Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 04:28 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

647 hp, I'll be (pleasently) suprised if you have enough head on it for more, even with the big cam. With those cubes and still smallish ports the torque will be legendary...the kind Vikings write poems about

My question is, why only the 2.02" on such a big cube motor?

Also from my experience the econo's don't seem to rev as high as the billet pedestal W2's when you're dealing with high RPM roller spring pressures.



Although, this isn't really a "budget build" In a way it still is. The W2's with 2.02" was the top end I have, and if I want to race this year, that's all the budget allows for.

Ideally, If money was no object, and time wasn't my enemy, you would see a set of CFE W8's on this thing! But, again, this makes for a differnt build still, and kind of an out of the ordinary build. My Aspen still has an 8 3/4 with stock everything in it, so, the car isn't really ready for a whole ton of power anyway.

-Kenny



I'm with Wise and a few others... that thing will
make a TON of torque(watch out for your 8 3/4) but
the cross section of the port isnt anywhere near enough...
so with all that torque I sure hope you dont have
steep gears




3.23's set up with hopes and dreams of it hanging together!
Posted By: Stroker Scamp

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 04:33 AM

673.333333333
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 04:43 AM

Is it going into your Aspen???
Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 04:58 AM

Quote:

Is it going into your Aspen???



It will be until the other car is ready for an engine. The other car is a 1967 Plymouth Valiant that I just bought. That car will have a Jerico DR4 and a Dana 60.
Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 05:16 AM

Quote:

673.333333333



That specific eh? remember, we are using a manual operated Stuska brake. Haha. That means, we read the number off of the dial and at what RPM it comes off at, then we calculated the power by hand. So, it wont be that specific.
Posted By: Stroker Scamp

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 06:34 AM

Quote:

Quote:

673.333333333



That specific eh? remember, we are using a manual operated Stuska brake. Haha. That means, we read the number off of the dial and at what RPM it comes off at, then we calculated the power by hand. So, it wont be that specific.

ok take about 3-3's off that and add a 4
Posted By: DusterDave

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 10:48 AM

620 hp.
Posted By: BradD

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 02:44 PM

631.8 hp

Brad
Posted By: sshemi

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 04:08 PM

680hp
Posted By: thedriver

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 05:09 PM

8 billion hp
Posted By: Big B

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 06:56 PM

Quote:

8 billion hp


He would probably break the speed of light with that much power!
Posted By: Belvedere2

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 07:02 PM

I'll tell ya if it goes into my car.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 08:29 PM

Well?

Attached picture 6757712-caddyshack_judge_smalls_02.jpg
Posted By: justinp61

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/01/11 08:30 PM

So when is it going on the dyno?
Posted By: 72demon416

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/02/11 03:17 AM

Quote:

Quote:

8 billion hp


He would probably break the speed of light with that much power!



Only if he can get traction...
Posted By: Irun5snd8th

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/02/11 04:53 AM

Quote:

710 hp

its gonna have to be around 700ish
Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/03/11 02:47 AM

Quote:

8 billion hp



Haha! What an icrease that would be!

Quote:

I'll tell ya if it goes into my car.



Your car eh? I was planning on putting it in my car... but if you say so!

Quote:

Well?



Waiting on parts now.

Quote:

So when is it going on the dyno?



It is currently sitting on the cart on the dyno. I think I found an adjuster, and the push rod shipped out today. Sorry for the wait guys! It's killing me having to wait! I hope the parts come quickly, I am running out of time to get it into the car!

Quote:

Quote:

710 hp

its gonna have to be around 700ish



I am hoping your right. It really is kind of a hard combo to guess on, because of the smaller top end with the big bore and stroke under it.
Posted By: BradD

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/06/11 12:20 AM

Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/07/11 04:41 PM

Sorry for the wait, anything over 6000rpm it was chucking push rods. The push rods are very close to the head, and they must just barely touch it at higher rpm. The lifters only drop in one way with out modifying the block, and they have an offset toward the valley. We have disassembled the engine, and removed some block material that isn't needed. The lifters are now turned around 180 degrees. The offset will now give us more clearance from the head. It is back to a short block state right now. We need a few gaskets and one more adjuster. It should be back up and running on Tuesday or so.

The good news is, on the first little tug, it pull 100 points @ 6000rpm. That works out to 600hp @ 6000rpm uncorrected. On a good day we see correction factors around 11-13%. I don't know what it was that day, but assuming the best @ 11% we have , 600 x 1.11 = 666hp corrected to sealevel.

-Kenny
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/07/11 04:58 PM

What pushrods are you running? The first thing I learned running W2 stuff is you need a good .080 wall pushrod at least. Shelf comp cams cup pushrods fold like pretzels. EDIT: I see you are using Smith bros....
Posted By: quick77rt

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/07/11 04:58 PM

Sounds good Kenny, I hope you hit the real world numbers your looking for.

Imo real world numbers consist of where your at and what your doing is what matters. Im at 8400 ft and thats what I base things on not at sea level 2000 miles away. I think a very small percentage live or race at sea level.

600 horse is a real world number at your shop so the motor is making 600hp.

Here at 8400 ft 600 hp is still only 600hp, no paper correction is going to make it more then 600hp in the hear and now.

What lifters did you have to put in upside down from the start? If you knew they were upside down from the start, wouldnt that indicate problems down the road??
Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/07/11 05:35 PM

Quote:

Sounds good Kenny, I hope you hit the real world numbers your looking for.

Imo real world numbers consist of where your at and what your doing is what matters. Im at 8400 ft and thats what I base things on not at sea level 2000 miles away. I think a very small percentage live or race at sea level.

600 horse is a real world number at your shop so the motor is making 600hp.

Here at 8400 ft 600 hp is still only 600hp, no paper correction is going to make it more then 600hp in the hear and now.

What lifters did you have to put in upside down from the start? If you knew they were upside down from the start, wouldnt that indicate problems down the road??




Hey quick, I agree, the uncorrected will always be the real number. Corrected numbers are only useful to compare results across the country really.

The lifters are from Brian at IMM Engine and Dyno. They are supposed to be a drop in lifter, so, I used them as they dropped in. There really is no issues with the lifter, and they could be used "backwards" if the head didn't interfere. On an un cut W2 with the same clearancing done, it would probably work fine, but the deck is cut down on these heads a fair amount, bringing the push rod that much closer.

I would like to clarify, there isn't anything wrong with the lifters from Brian. I did ask him if there was any clearancing that would be needed, and the answer was no. The issue comes from, how the R3 block was machined from the factory. The material that was hitting the tie bar does not need to be there for any reason.
Posted By: quick77rt

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/07/11 06:06 PM

Cool Kenny, that makes sense, if anyone ever tried using comp solid rollers on a la mag block the link bars kept it off the base circle about .010 almost hard to determine, so that area got ground down.

Sounds like sorta the same thing and I know most r3-s go through a lightening cnc program.

Good luck and keep at it, I like how you think out of the box alot

What do you think your max rpm area will be???
Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/07/11 07:06 PM

Quote:

Cool Kenny, that makes sense, if anyone ever tried using comp solid rollers on a la mag block the link bars kept it off the base circle about .010 almost hard to determine, so that area got ground down.

Sounds like sorta the same thing and I know most r3-s go through a lightening cnc program.

Good luck and keep at it, I like how you think out of the box alot

What do you think your max rpm area will be???



Thanks buddy!

Yes, the R3's usually go through a bunch of machining processes to lighten and correct other issues. This block is part of the newer released blocks I guess you could say. I think they have improved the block for sure. My only complaint so far would be the chunk of casting that was in my way, but really, that is minor, and they probably just expect it would be removed when the consumer has the rest of the block finished.

As for max rpm, I really don't know what to tell you. We had a similar cam in an Eddie headed 408 that peaked at 7000rpm. It was smaller cubes, but the head didn't flow as well as these W2's. So, maybe we will see a similar peak rpm? Or maybe it will be done at 6500rpm. I would be very surprised to see a peak over 7000rpm, but I bet it will carry nicely past the peak still where ever that may be.

-Kenny
Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/11/11 07:30 PM

UPDATE AS OF TODAY!

Well, it has been VERY busy, figuring out the oiling/pushrods/adjuster/what a head ache this week. haha.

So, we have clearanced the block, and flipped the lifters around, while we had it apart, we got looking at the cometic head gaskets, and found, this set was meant for push rod oiling. The oil passage was not drilled through. So, long story short, we drilled the gaskets, and all is fine and good now.

My 1050 did not pan out, and just would not co-operate with us. We had to put an old 800 dp holley on it to run it. We have run out of time and haven't done any tuning, but everything with the engine is good to go, so it is getting pulled off the dyno, and put in the car tonight, and headed to the track tomorrow night. (going to try and strap it on the chassis dyno somewhere in there too.haha.)

SO, un tuned, running with a little 800 carb, this thing is still pulling 100 points at 6400 rpm. That is where we stopped pulling. I know everyone would like better info on the engine dyno, but again, I have ran out of time.

So, 100 points at 6400rpm works out to 640hp at our elevation, uncorrected. On a very good air day, we see 11% for a correction factor. So, using the 11% (probably actually more then that) we are looking at 720hp. I am very happy with this so far, as it really has a lot going against it with no tuning, and that little carb.

Tonight, It will be getting bolted in the car, and there will be a fresh 950 HP series Holley on it. If we can work fast, we will see Chassis dyno numbers tonight, along with a good tune!

Again, if all goes well, I will have some ET numbers for you guys on saturday! That is, if the stock 8 3/4 with the 3.23's holds up. haha

-Kenny
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/11/11 08:58 PM

647 was pretty close...huh?
Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: JOSS ENGINES 468ci. W2 Small block. What will it make?? - 08/11/11 09:05 PM

Quote:

647 was pretty close...huh?



Uncorrected, and un tuned
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