Moparts

*** REV.POST... DO I HAVE ENOUGH SHOCK TRAVEL???***

Posted By: Labratt

*** REV.POST... DO I HAVE ENOUGH SHOCK TRAVEL???*** - 07/21/11 08:59 PM

You guys that have installed a MP inboard spring kit...could you give me an idea on how big of wheel and tire,and back-spacing, my '69' GTX could use? I can only fit an 8" wheel,with 4.5" back-spacing..using a 9"x30" slick! I need to step it up and get more rubber under the car! Thanks in advance for your answers! Randy B.

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Posted By: JERICOGTX

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/21/11 09:42 PM

15x12 with 3.5 back spacing for the rims. M/T 31x10.5W's or 13x31's with a "little" trim work to the front of the wheel lip.

Jeff

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Posted By: Chris2581

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/21/11 10:08 PM

Randy,It's your car,but I wouldn't cut that GTX at all.Our 70 Road Runner used a 10" wheel with a 5" offset,and we had 10.5x29.5 Firestone(Phoenix) in that car with a bit of trimmimg of the front edge of the wheelwell.Lips were trimmed too.I don't think you'll gain a whole lot by going to a larger tire that you have in mind.In fact,on my A-body,I'm going smaller after I have the car painted.From 31.8 to a 29.5 tall tire.
Posted By: topbrent

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/21/11 10:29 PM

This isn't necessarily a direct answer to your question, but it is more of an response that may have you looking at other areas of your car.

What are the particular specs of your suspension package.
- Front and rear.

Do you run Cal-Tracs and Monoleafs?


For a good example of hooking a 540 stroker B-body using a small tire, look at ActionAnge.
He hooks his 3750lb 1967 Belvedere to the tune of 10.27 @ 132 with a 1.44 60ft, using a 9x28 slick on an 8" wheel.



Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/21/11 10:53 PM

Brent...that's one impressive Belvedere AA has! I see he uses Cal-Tracs out back. Do you know what else he's done to the suspension to make it hook so well? My 3500 lb. GTX has NO front sway bar,.840 Race T-Bars...and Calvert Racing 90/10's..which work GREAT! Out back are 002-003 A-Body Super Stock springs,as used on the '68' Hemi Darts and Barracudas. The shocks are Rancho 9000 9-way adjustables. Rear gear is a 8 3/4..4:56 ratio. I believe the pinion angle is 5* angled down. Thanks for the info! Randy B.
Posted By: 1DGEMAN

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/21/11 10:59 PM

Why do you need bigger tires? Just want the look? Many NHRA stockers and Super Stockers go into the 9's on 9 inch tires.
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/21/11 11:04 PM

Rod..yes,a big part of it is "the look" I would really prefer a mini-tub...but budget(and wife)most likely would frown on it,I'm sure!
Posted By: Dartin

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/21/11 11:43 PM

..... She'll never know!

Randy
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/22/11 01:29 AM

Not sure if my uncle moved in his springs on his 68 RR but he runs 28x14.5 QTP's with NO tubs!!!!
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/22/11 01:32 AM

Posted By: 69CHARGERMD

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/22/11 02:36 AM

Mikes Duster,,,,NICE car,,,
Posted By: 67_Satellite

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/22/11 02:50 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8wb7JAM5wc The top of the rim is above the wheel opening.Wanted the lotsa rubber look without the downhill angle. 315-60-15 Mickey Thompson radial http://i355.photobucket.com/albums/r461/FriedDonuts/P1000654-1.jpg
Posted By: dragram440

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/22/11 03:21 AM

I have a 67 b body with a stock width 8 3/4 and run a 28x14.50 quick time pro on a 12" wheel with 6 1/2" of backspace. If I went to a 7 1/2" back space I could go with a wider tire, There is alot of room behind the tire to the spring due to the stock width rear end.


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Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/22/11 12:41 PM

Randy..you're so creative! ....Mike...LOVE your uncle's RR!..could you find out what he did to fit such a big tire under it? Thanks! .....Eric,BEAUTIFUL Satellie! Your springs are moved inboard? What size wheel and tire are you running?....Matt..NICE Charger! I'm REAL surprised 14.5" wide tires will fit after installing this kit! That's more than enough tire to make me happy! Thanks for your help,fellas! Randy B.
Posted By: actionange

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/22/11 02:33 PM

Quote:

Brent...that's one impressive Belvedere AA has! I see he uses Cal-Tracs out back. Do you know what else he's done to the suspension to make it hook so well? My 3500 lb. GTX has NO front sway bar,.840 Race T-Bars...and Calvert Racing 90/10's..which work GREAT! Out back are 002-003 A-Body Super Stock springs,as used on the '68' Hemi Darts and Barracudas. The shocks are Rancho 9000 9-way adjustables. Rear gear is a 8 3/4..4:56 ratio. I believe the pinion angle is 5* angled down. Thanks for the info! Randy B.



Ok here's my easy to use setup. QA-1's in front and rear, .840 t bars and Caltrac mono's in rear.
Get 5-7 inches front end travel. You can adjust as you go on any given day or track.
My air pressure is always between 18 and 19 lbs. Don't want to crush the sidewall and lose contact patch.
Caltracs in bottom hole- less violent- with 2 "flats" preload on pass side. Drv side has space the thickness of a nickel between spring and lever. This is with driver in car.
I don't leave at high RPM- no need with all the torque.
Use a built for my combo converter from Lenny at Ultimate Converter Concepts. Made specifically for my setup not a cookie cutter by an order taker tech clerk at other companies.
Other reasons to use a smaller tire: cost less, less drag once you're in high gear.
Best reason- it freaks people out wondering how you can go so fast on them...
Thanks to topbrent for using my car as an example
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/22/11 03:32 PM

The bolt on inboard spring hangers won't even bolt on!

The front hangers are already right next to the frame rail on your/our car. There isn't anywhere to go, no
wasted space to use up.

The bolt ons work much better on an A body, but you still have to punch a hole in the frame to clear the fasteners with those.

The weld-on spring relocation kit, which is the only mp setup that will do much of anything on your/our car(s)
requires chopping a chunk out of the frame rail to weld in the mounting boxes. Then after the spring is relocated, the next obstacle is the wheelhouses....

If you only relocate the springs
and don't relocate the inner tubs, you're only going to gain about 1" of tire even though you moved the spring 3", which is not a very good payback for the effort.,,,,but it could be done that way if a guy wanted?

Since the quarters and various other sheetmetal needs to be cut off mine anyway, being rusty junk....and the frame rail is already cut for the subframe connectors, I'll probably go the extra mile with it when it's time to replace the quarters. It would be kind of a shame to cut yours, but I wouldn't blame you if you did!

I also like the look....big car, big tire...why not
Posted By: deaks

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/22/11 05:38 PM

I think cutting the frame is not so bad if it's done well, as it's not easily seen but i wouldn't cut the body on your car for bigger tyres.
Mick
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/22/11 07:17 PM

Thanks for all the GREAT info,Angelo and Rich! Looks like I'll have to find out how involved and how costly it's going to be to do the wheelwells as well as install the kit! Zippy..if I only gain 1" out of it,I'm not going to have it done! I'd like to be able to put at least a 12" tire under it. Thanks again,guys!
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/22/11 07:20 PM

Mick..NO WAY am I cutting into the body..not even the wheel well lip!
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/22/11 07:29 PM

Quote:

This isn't necessarily a direct answer to your question, but it is more of an response that may have you looking at other areas of your car.

What are the particular specs of your suspension package.
- Front and rear.

Do you run Cal-Tracs and Monoleafs?


For a good example of hooking a 540 stroker B-body using a small tire, look at ActionAnge.
He hooks his 3750lb 1967 Belvedere to the tune of 10.27 @ 132 with a 1.44 60ft, using a 9x28 slick on an 8" wheel.





I was going to say the same thing. Looks like multi-leafs and standard shocks to me.............I`d install cal-tracs,ranchos and be done with it and scale the car and get the ballast correct and hang on.
Posted By: Get-X

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/22/11 07:51 PM

Quote:

Mick..NO WAY am I cutting into the body..not even the wheel well lip!



This is the same problem I'm suck with as well. I really don't want to hack up mine, not even to put a bar in it. That's why it's still a juice cam 440 with a 10" converter and street tires. The body on mine needs work, but not whole quarters so I don't think I'll cut it up. It even has the correct block still in it from '68.

I'm tempted all the time to put a low deck , solid roller cammed stroker in it, but what's the sense when I won't be allowed to make laps in it at the track? What I need to do is find a 383 RR shell and build that, but then the divorce would take all of the car money
Posted By: 69CHARGERMD

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/22/11 10:27 PM

AA

Quote:

Drv side has space the thickness of a nickel between spring and lever.



would the bigger gap help with a harder hit ?
I have just a slight "air gap" on mine on the driver side,,might open it up some if you have found good results..??

Doug
Posted By: actionange

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 12:09 AM

Quote:

AA

Quote:

Drv side has space the thickness of a nickel between spring and lever.



would the bigger gap help with a harder hit ?
I have just a slight "air gap" on mine on the driver side,,might open it up some if you have found good results..??

Doug



Opening the gap would definitely cause a harder hit.
The thickness of a nickel is very small and allow the bar to work in a non violent way.
Soften the shock setting allows the tire to work without spinning.
Just trying to not over power the hot,greasy, sun drenched starting line this time of year...
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 02:57 AM

One thing that I SHOULD have tried for my lousy 1.60 60' times,was softening up the shocks! They were set @ #9 position..or as stiff as you can set them! Probably should have tried #7..or even #5,since the starting line wasn't so good! Too busy fooling with carbs..and jet changes, in the blasted heat!

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Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 04:33 AM

I got to thinking about suspension mods tonight..and haven't run this idea past my good friend,Mr. P-Body yet! I'm wondering if I should just skip the re-location kit..and get a ladder bar set-up instead! What do you guys think? I drive the car on the street...but not very much. What are the pros...and cons of ladder bar suspensions? It's got to improve my 60's over my current SS spring set-up! Am I correct in assuming this? Thanks in advance for your opinions! Randy B.
Posted By: pro6pakRR

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 07:38 AM

Randy I use to run 29/12.5x15 under my car with everything stock and a 8 in rim.

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Posted By: topbrent

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 10:53 AM

Randy,

Looking at your youtube videos, imo, it looks like the car is porpoising ie., rocking front to back after the initial hit, unloading the slicks.
- You can hear the engine loading differently as it bounces around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_TSf9u0o3c

Have you ever checked to see how much travel are you getting out of your front end before it tops out?

Super Stock springs + 30" slicks can make for a pretty tall rear end of the car.

I have read comments from mr p-body and others that explain that this kind of raked stance & rear height yield a tall center of gravity.
This higher CG makes it more difficult to get the car to rapidly transfer the weight to the rear.
In essence, the energy is wasted instead of being utilized.

Swapping over to some stock ride height or - 1" Calvert Monoleafs + caltracs would lower the rear substantially.
Lowering the CG would aid in getting the weight and energy transferred rapidly and firmly planting the tires.

Ever considered lowering blocks or different front hangers for your existing SS setup?



Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 02:06 PM

Quote:

One thing that I SHOULD have tried for my lousy 1.60 60' times,was softening up the shocks! They were set @ #9 position..or as stiff as you can set them! Probably should have tried #7..or even #5,since the starting line wasn't so good! Too busy fooling with carbs..and jet changes, in the blasted heat!



Randy, I would start with working on what you have now
and see if its optimized(which I doubt)... everytime
we/you go to the track you play with the engine...
I dont know if you have ever spent a day tuning the
chassis... like I told you before, you need to lower
the back end some BUT if I remember right you cant
because the tires crash... well we need to look at
getting the tires to clear(move them inboard some)
and this might be where the ladder bars come into play...
its been a while since I've looked under there
to see whats what.... maybe you should bring the X
over and we spend some time eyeballing under it ...
I do remember your shackles are out of wack(angle)
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 03:14 PM

Thanks,Mike! What's a good time to come over tomorrow? I just have to switch out the slicks for street tires. Let me know! Randy
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 03:20 PM

Thanks for your opinions and ideas,Brent! Chief...12.5" slick under your RR??? On an 8" rim? Do you remember what the back-spacing was? Thanks! Randy
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 03:21 PM

Dont matter to me... I'm here all the time(I'm boring)
just give me a call before you swing by..... also
when you have the tires off measure the total clearance
you have in the wheel well
Posted By: bonefish

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 03:35 PM

does this look cool enough for ya? i have to take my wheels of next week if you want a can take some measurments.

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Posted By: bonefish

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 03:39 PM

another it rides a little high for most guys taste but i like that old skool look.i have cal traks.

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Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 03:52 PM

Al...your X sits MUCH higher than mine! I think mine is pretty even..front to back! What size are your street tires? I run a 295/65-15 on a 8" wheel..4.5" back-spacing. Thanks for the pics!...NICE! F-8..or F-5 Green?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 03:57 PM

Quote:

Al...your X sits MUCH higher than mine! I think mine is pretty even..front to back! What size are your street tires? I run a 295/65-15 on a 8" wheel..4.5" back-spacing. Thanks for the pics!...NICE! F-8..or F-5 Green?



Randy when you are doing some measurements take a
reading from the axle flange(drum) to the back for
clearance to see what BS you can get away with
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: RE-LOCATION KIT TO LADDER BAR SET-UP??? - 07/23/11 05:21 PM

On my 68 GTX I ran 15 x 10 with 4.5 back spacing and 28.5 X 10.5's with no problems. then 29.5 X 10.5 was still ok but when i went 11.50 X 29.5 (30.5 high) I had to cut fold over the flange lips now a 5 backspace maybe would not have to??
And that was without relocating the springs!
Posted By: bonefish

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 05:24 PM

Quote:

Al...your X sits MUCH higher than mine! I think mine is pretty even..front to back! What size are your street tires? I run a 295/65-15 on a 8" wheel..4.5" back-spacing. Thanks for the pics!...NICE! F-8..or F-5 Green?

ill take some measurements for ya.F-7
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 08:00 PM

Quote:

Randy,

Looking at your youtube videos, imo, it looks like the car is porpoising ie., rocking front to back after the initial hit, unloading the slicks.
- You can hear the engine loading differently as it bounces around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_TSf9u0o3c



Brent...My bad! My memory needs a darn tune-up! I could have sworn I had the Rancho's set at #9!....they were actually set @ #5...maybe too soft,and reason for the porpusing! #5 is my street setting,by the way.



Posted By: firefighter3931

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/23/11 11:35 PM

Randy, mine has Caltracs & monos with 295/65 M/T DR's and it hooks good with 720ftlbs of tq

Chip runs the same suspension & tires on his Cuda and 60fts in the 1.30's with his 572 Hemi

Brad H also runs CalTracs and 295/65 M/T's and 60 fts in the 1.40's


My vote is to not cut the car up, use a bolt on traction improver and use a 295 DR



Ron


Ps. On a side note ; i'm wondering if those a-body SS springs might be causing some type of problem ? Are the rear shakles facing forward with the chassis loaded ?
Posted By: actionange

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/24/11 02:18 PM

Ps. On a side note ; i'm wondering if those a-body SS springs might be causing some type of problem ? Are the rear shakles facing forward with the chassis loaded ?

X2 on above
Don't remember- are you running a pinion snubber?
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/24/11 07:20 PM

Fellers...I think you're onto something! Mike(P-Body)made a note of the same exact thing! The rear shackles are in a "neautral" position when the chassis is loaded!...straight up and down. Maybe the total length of the A-Body spring is throwing the angle off whack! I know the shackle should be at a 30 degree angle forward,for best results! What is the fix? Drill new mounting holes for the shackles...or just get new SS springs?...if so,which weight-rated ones? Thanks Angelo,and Ron!...and Raff,for your help! BTW...Angelo,haven't run my pinion snubber in years. Are you running one on the Satellite???
Posted By: BradH

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/24/11 07:44 PM

Quote:

Brad H also runs CalTracs and 295/65 M/T's and 60 fts in the 1.40's


I run the smaller 275/60R15s, CalTracs, std-height mono springs, older 5-way adjustable Rancho shocks, small-block t-bars, QA1-R front shocks, and the front set up for 5+" travel from static ride height. The car was pulling consistent 1.45-1.46 60-fts. the last couple of times the car was run in 2009, but hasn't been back to the track since then.

Also, I don't like the jacked-up look and my car sits fairly low & level as you can see here.

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Posted By: actionange

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/24/11 09:40 PM

No snubber ever used with Caltrac monoleafs and bars.
Get the rear end out of the air. Superstock springs have a tendency to ride high. I tried these when first putting the car together and quickly went to the Calracs.
Car sits low and works great.
Posted By: formula S

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/25/11 01:48 AM

Two places to check, 1st make sure you have enough front end travel 5 to 6 inches, you may have to lower the front end to achieve this. 2nd make sure your rear shocks arent to short, because if they are as the chassis rises it will take the rear end with it and unload the tire causing it to bounce, resulting in poor 60ft times. Plenty of guys are using the same parts that you are, I think you just have some tuning to do good luck
Posted By: racerx

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/25/11 02:01 AM

Quote:

Fellers...I think you're onto something! Mike(P-Body)made a note of the same exact thing! The rear shackles are in a "neautral" position when the chassis is loaded!...straight up and down. Maybe the total length of the A-Body spring is throwing the angle off whack! I know the shackle should be at a 30 degree angle forward,for best results! What is the fix? Drill new mounting holes for the shackles...or just get new SS springs?...if so,which weight-rated ones? Thanks Angelo,and Ron!...and Raff,for your help! BTW...Angelo,haven't run my pinion snubber in years. Are you running one on the Satellite???

I know the shackle should be at a 30 degree angle forward,for best results!it's been a while sense i'v run the ss spring but i thought that the rear shackle is supposed to be facein the rear at your loaded settings(if that makes any sense)
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/25/11 02:21 AM

Quote:

Two places to check, 1st make sure you have enough front end travel 5 to 6 inches, you may have to lower the front end to achieve this. 2nd make sure your rear shocks arent to short, because if they are as the chassis rises it will take the rear end with it and unload the tire causing it to bounce, resulting in poor 60ft times. Plenty of guys are using the same parts that you are, I think you just have some tuning to do good luck



He has a couple of problems... the tire size he wants
to run(on the street) is just clearing and he has
the body up so they clear... being that the body is
up it has less travel in the shocks(extension)...
and the rear shackle angle is wrong.... looking under
there today if he wanted to move the springs in-board
it wount do a bit of good, he has about 5/8" clearance
to the inner wheel well... the vid he showed earlier
had his shock settings on 5 and it topped out the
shocks
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/25/11 04:31 AM

Kerry...I may have misspoken! It might be 30 degrees,angled to the rear! I'll have to check my MP Chassis Manual! Meanwhile...can someone chime in? Thanks!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/25/11 04:54 AM

Quote:

Kerry...I may have misspoken! It might be 30 degrees,angled to the rear! I'll have to check my MP Chassis Manual! Meanwhile...can someone chime in? Thanks!



The top angles to the front
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/25/11 05:04 AM

Thanks,Mike!
Posted By: 10secGTX

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/25/11 08:28 AM

My vote for cal tracs.... and mono's and getting the correct rim, I have 275 60 15 MT/DR and have gone 1.45 60'

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Posted By: topbrent

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/25/11 08:59 AM

Quote:

My vote for cal tracs.... and mono's and getting the correct rim,



+1

Posted By: JAKE68

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/25/11 01:12 PM

Randy give me a call so I don't have to type all morning. Jake
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/25/11 02:38 PM

Frannie,I'm REALLY leaning towards getting the Cal-Tracs,and not cutting up the frame! I would run the 295/65-15's on mine. I didn't care at all for the look of the 275's...when I bought a pair a few yrs. ago!...just didn't fill up the wheel well! You mentioned getting the "correct" rims...what's wrong with the ones I currently use? The 295's are mounted on the 8" rim,and they seem to be doing OK,as far as clearances go...no rubbing. I have to figure out how to drop the height of the rear an inch or 3,though! Maybe mount the front spring bolt in the UPPER hole? Thanks for your opinions,Fran..and Brent! Randy B. Gary...I'll call ya later today!
Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/25/11 03:06 PM

Randy, I vote that you use the parts you already have and figure out why their not working. Leafs will get you well into the 10's. CalTrac's are good for run-to-run consistancy...not worth the expense for your goals IMO. The shocks must not top-out! The rims probably should be wider to spread the tire for a larger contact patch. I would probably mount the front spring in the top mounting hole too. Make sure the front end is loose and has travel as per many here are suggesting. As you know, Raff can help you pretty well.
Posted By: tboomer

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/25/11 03:21 PM

Quote:

Randy, I vote that you use the parts you already have and figure out why their not working. Leafs will get you well into the 10's. CalTrac's are good for run-to-run consistancy...not worth the expense for your goals IMO. The shocks must not top-out! The rims probably should be wider to spread the tire for a larger contact patch. I would probably mount the front spring in the top mounting hole too. Make sure the front end is loose and has travel as per many here are suggesting. As you know, Raff can help you pretty well.

DING DING DING!!! We have a winner! That's what I would do,Randy!
Posted By: STEFF

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/25/11 03:40 PM

Converter also plays a big influence on 60' but you're way away from needing to worry about it. Get the chassis sorted out first. You need a track day where you keep the hood closed & not even think about the engine.
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/25/11 10:58 PM

Thanks,guys! In actuality,the front spring mounting bolt is in the TOP hole! If I drop it down to the BOTTOM hole,will that lower the rear end ride heighth? I talked to Gary Jacob(Jake68)today,and he said that it's common with the B-Body cars with A-Body springs, to drill a new rear spring mount hole forward of the existing mounting hole...to correct the rear shackle angle! Please give me your opinions on this! THANKS! Randy B.
Posted By: STEFF

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 01:12 AM

Quote:

Thanks,guys! In actuality,the front spring mounting bolt is in the TOP hole! If I drop it down to the BOTTOM hole,will that lower the rear end ride heighth? I talked to Gary Jacob(Jake68)today,and he said that it's common with the B-Body cars with A-Body springs, to drill a new rear spring mount hole forward of the existing mounting hole...to correct the rear shackle angle! Please give me your opinions on this! THANKS! Randy B.



Listen to Gary, he's right on!
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 04:38 AM

Does ANYONE know about some leaf springs that Dan Dvorak was selling???...suppose to be comparable to Luneack Launchers,which I've heard MANY times,worked real well! Reason I'm asking,is a board member offered me a set at a reasonable price! Thanks in advance for the help!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 04:42 AM

Quote:

Thanks,guys! In actuality,the front spring mounting bolt is in the TOP hole! If I drop it down to the BOTTOM hole,will that lower the rear end ride heighth? I talked to Gary Jacob(Jake68)today,and he said that it's common with the B-Body cars with A-Body springs, to drill a new rear spring mount hole forward of the existing mounting hole...to correct the rear shackle angle! Please give me your opinions on this! THANKS! Randy B.



I think we talked about the shackle angle the other day
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 04:57 AM

Raff...I mentioned that we did,about 10 posts previous to this one! I figured Gary has seen this before...and wanted to get his take on how they corrected it. Pretty much the same thing you said...drilling a hole aft of the existing mounting hole,and welding in a tube. Mike...have you ever heard of these springs from Dan Dvorak,that I mentioned in the previous post?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 05:11 AM

Quote:

Raff...I mentioned that we did,about 10 posts previous to this one! I figured Gary has seen this before...and wanted to get his take on how they corrected it. Pretty much the same thing you said...drilling a hole aft of the existing mounting hole,and welding in a tube. Mike...have you ever heard of these springs from Dan Dvorak,that I mentioned in the previous post?



Heard of them... never seen one
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 05:42 AM

Just did some research on the Dvorek springs. Sounds like the guys using them REALLY like them at the track!...but tend to be pretty stiff for street driving! With Rancho 9-ways,I'm sure that could be remedied with a softer setting!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 05:48 AM

Quote:

Just did some research on the Dvorek springs. Sounds like the guys using them REALLY like them at the track!...but tend to be pretty stiff for street driving! With Rancho 9-ways,I'm sure that could be remedied with a softer setting!



If they are real stiff then those Rancho's wont be
strong enough... plus on the street they would still
be stiff... you cant make a stiff spring soft with a
shock
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 01:01 PM

Mike...if that's the case,I wouldn't use them. The ride quality with the current 002/003 springs and #5 setting on the Rancho's is pretty comfortable! I'll probably get the shackles moved forward...or buy another set of springs...made for a B-Body car. My question if I do end up buying another set of SS springs,is what weight-rated set? #3400...#3600??? The X weighs 3500 lbs. with 5 gal. of gas,ready to race...and 3720 with my slimmed-down rear in the seat! Thanks! Randy B.

Attached picture 6747237-DSC00202.JPG
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 01:12 PM

Quote:

Mike...if that's the case,I wouldn't use them. The ride quality with the current 002/003 springs and #5 setting on the Rancho's is pretty comfortable! I'll probably get the shackles moved forward...or buy another set of springs...made for a B-Body car. My question if I do end up buying another set of SS springs,is what weight-rated set? #3400...#3600??? The X weighs 3500 lbs. with 5 gal. of gas,ready to race...and 3720 with my slimmed-down rear in the seat! Thanks! Randy B.



Randy you would end up with the 3600 specially with
your tire to fender issue
Posted By: deaks

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 01:13 PM

Randy
I was under the impression, that B bodys used a longer front spring hanger when using A body springs.
Instead of buying new springs, wouldn't it be cheaper to fabricate some fresh hangers to correct the angle.
JMO Mick
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 01:24 PM

Quote:

Randy
I was under the impression, that B bodys used a longer front spring hanger when using A body springs.
Instead of buying new springs, wouldn't it be cheaper to fabricate some fresh hangers to correct the angle.
JMO Mick



He has the long hangers in the front BUT it seems like
the rear segment is shorter also(from the locator
pin the the rear eye) which moves the lower bolt on
the shackle forward... by about a 1" to 1 1/2"...
his tire is located in the center of the wheel well
and that aspect looks good
Posted By: Blusmbl

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 02:45 PM

The 3800# B/E body length SS springs have a longer rear segment than other SS springs. I ran them on my Charger (with extended front hanger, all SS springs have the same A-body length front segment and require them on B/E body cars) and I did not have to move the rear hanger. If you're running the original A-body style 002/003 SS springs on a B body, you need both the extended front hanger and relocation of the rear hanger.

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/superstock.html
Posted By: JAKE68

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 03:02 PM

Randy i would not spend a dime on new springs. you have a great spring already. I use the 02/03 springs on everything. You would not be happy with the 3400# SPRING OR THE 3600# they sit too low. I have had cars with the 02/03 springs 60 in the 1.27-1.44. Your bad 60's could be other things in your combo than the springs. Those launcher springs are more exspensive than caltracs with no adjustments. They work maybe a little better than a well tuned superstock spring set up. But if i was going to spend the money do caltracs. With that said you could have the best rear suspension parts back there and still not have great 60's if it has not been sorted out. Also you get what you get when you go to poor tracks that are not prepped good and the temps do not make for good 60's.
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 03:04 PM

Mike,thanks for your explanation on this! Nick,thanks for pointing out what's required for these springs! These 002/003's have been on for a LONG time! Maybe the #3800 springs would make a noticeable difference!??? What do you guys think?
Posted By: Blusmbl

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 03:20 PM

I'd match Jake's suggestion, I wouldn't buy another set of springs- I had the 3800# springs on mine but it was a 4 speed car. Relocating the rear hanger should be almost free to try, I'd give that a shot first before attempting anything else.

On the original topic I wouldn't cut your car up just for inboard springs either. It's too nice. If you're going to fire up the sawzall, at least go big and back-half it.
Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 05:14 PM

Didn't realize you had 002/003s....never claimed I could read

for the shackle angle to be correct, with the longer front hangers, either:

-punch a hole in the stub-rail (not really the frame, because it sits outside the frame separate from it) further forward, weld in a tube the proper size for the bushings (relocate the shackle like Nick states). If you do this, you can put the shackle anywhere you want....

-Forget the shackles completely and convert to sliders...opinions differ on whether sliders are a good or bad upgrade with traditional SS springs, from what I've seen they can be helpful alot of times

-swap in a longer main leaf

-swap springs altogether...I probably wouldn't either....

Ladder bars and coilovers take alot less butchering than inboard springs....Drill out the spotwelds holding the shock crossmember in, weld in a much stronger one....weld in a ladder bar crossmember to the frame ties. No cutting the frame, and the mods are reversible (but who would want to?)
Posted By: firefighter3931

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 08:10 PM

Quote:

The 3800# B/E body length SS springs have a longer rear segment than other SS springs. I ran them on my Charger (with extended front hanger, all SS springs have the same A-body length front segment and require them on B/E body cars) and I did not have to move the rear hanger. If you're running the original A-body style 002/003 SS springs on a B body, you need both the extended front hanger and relocation of the rear hanger.

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/superstock.html




Thanks for the explanation Nick ....that's what i figured was going on.

Randy, if you don't get it sorted out and want to try a set of 3800lb B-body springs lemme know and i'll bring you down a set at Norwalk. These have maybe 200 miles and a few dozen track passes on them so basicly brand new.

I'll trade them for a 6-pack of Raff's favorite Keystone Light


Ron
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 09:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The 3800# B/E body length SS springs have a longer rear segment than other SS springs. I ran them on my Charger (with extended front hanger, all SS springs have the same A-body length front segment and require them on B/E body cars) and I did not have to move the rear hanger. If you're running the original A-body style 002/003 SS springs on a B body, you need both the extended front hanger and relocation of the rear hanger.

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/superstock.html




Thanks for the explanation Nick ....that's what i figured was going on.

Randy, if you don't get it sorted out and want to try a set of 3800lb B-body springs lemme know and i'll bring you down a set at Norwalk. These have maybe 200 miles and a few dozen track passes on them so basicly brand new.

I'll trade them for a 6-pack of Raff's favorite Keystone Light


Ron



Thats a pretty pricey set of springs dont ya think Ron
and believe me thats not my choice... when I'm home
I drink Molson Ice
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 09:17 PM

How can I pass up a deal like that??? I'll bring a TRUNKFUL of KL for those springs,Buddy! I'm going to try moving that rear shacle angle...and see what happens! We'll see! Ronnie...do ya think it really makes that much of a difference? THANKS BUDDY!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 09:28 PM

Quote:

How can I pass up a deal like that??? I'll bring a TRUNKFUL of KL for those springs,Buddy! I'm going to try moving that rear shacle angle...and see what happens! We'll see! Ronnie...do ya think it really makes that much of a difference? THANKS BUDDY!



Randy if you put the B body springs on it will move
because the springs are longer in the rear
Posted By: JAKE68

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 10:30 PM

Randy I bet it will be huge difference. Right now it gose into a bind and shortens the stroke so the spring quits working. We have tried the 3400 and 3600 and 3800 springs and none will out 60 the 002/003s that is the best scienced out mopar spring in my oppinion.
Posted By: SCATPACK 1

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/26/11 10:32 PM

You might also want to add a shock extension to give you a little more travel in the shocks so they are not limiting any travel. Hard to get it set up right if the shocks are fully extended and limiting what the springs are trying to do. You may find you need to lower the front bolt hole down 1 hole to settle it out a litle. Go with the shortest set of shackles you can get away with.
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/27/11 02:03 AM

Gary..you've convinced me to stay with the 02/03's! If the front mounting bolt is dropped from the top mounting hole,to the lower one...what will that do? Lower the rear-end?...hit harder? If it does lower the body,the tire clearance on the street tires will be REAL CLOSE! That's going to be a BIG consideration..even though I'd like to level the car out! Thanks for the info,fella's!
Posted By: JAKE68

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/27/11 02:13 AM

Quote:

Gary..you've convinced me to stay with the 02/03's! If the front mounting bolt is dropped from the top mounting hole,to the lower one...what will that do? Lower the rear-end?...hit harder? If it does lower the body,the tire clearance on the street tires will be REAL CLOSE! That's going to be a BIG consideration..even though I'd like to level the car out! Thanks for the info,fella's!


Putting it in the lower hole raises the car by about .5. It softens the hit to the tire which is better for a so so track condition. The top hole is better suited for hard hooking track.Jake
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/27/11 02:24 AM

Thanks,Gary! Guess it'll stay in the top hole...don't need it any higher! I use the 9-way Rancho rear shock...has anyone had a problem with them not having enough travel...and bottoming out?
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/27/11 02:43 AM

[quote) We have tried the 3400 and 3600 and 3800 springs...and none will out 60' the 002/003s! That is the best scienced-out mopar spring... in my opinion.

Jake..same thing Dick Landy told me at Carlisle...just before I ALMOST bought a heavier set!
Posted By: formula S

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/27/11 09:28 AM

Quote:

Thanks,Gary! Guess it'll stay in the top hole...don't need it any higher! I use the 9-way Rancho rear shock...has anyone had a problem with them not having enough travel...and bottoming out?

Be sure to check them as their are couple of different shocks, extended length should be around 25 to 25 1/2" long, if not the shocks may top out when you launch the car
Posted By: Labratt

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/29/11 10:28 PM

Steve..just checked the advertised extended length on my Rancho RS 999114 9-Ways...it lists 24.250" as the extended length! Isn't that too short? You stated they need to be 25-25.5" long.Looks like my shocks might be a CULPRIT...as well as the shackle angle! What's the consensus on this???? Thanks in advance,guys!
Posted By: Mr340

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/29/11 11:30 PM

Randy,

You need to disconnect the rear shocks from the axle/bottom end and support the car from the frame, letting the rear suspension hang free/unloaded. then extend you shocks.... they should extend at least an inch or so beyond the mounting point.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: MAX WHEEL AND TIRE COMBO USING INBOARD SPRING KIT??? - 07/29/11 11:39 PM

Quote:

Randy,

You need to disconnect the rear shocks from the axle/bottom end and support the car from the frame, letting the rear suspension hang free/unloaded. then extend you shocks.... they should extend at least an inch or so beyond the mounting point.



First he needs to correct the shackle issue... the
spring will travel farther when corrected and the axle
will drop farther THEN he needs to measure the shock
distance like you said
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