Moparts
info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements.
Posted By: 451Mopar
info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/02/11 04:20 PM
Just a For What its Worth post.
I weighed the pistons, pins, rods, etc to see how they matched up with the Balance sheet from 440 Source.
Note: I used the same numbers for oil weight and balance factor. The locks and rings measured the same when I checked them. There were some variation of piston and rod weights, but they were fairly small, less than 2 grams max.
This is the 440 Source Balance Sheet Info:
440 Source Bob Weight Card
Piston and Pin 755.8
Rod Bearing 47.8
Rings 57.7
Rotating End 528.8
Locks 4.4
Oil (each) 2
Rod Pin End 241.5
Reciprocaring Total 2118.8 Rotating Total 1157.2
balance Factor % 50
Reciprocaring Total ½ 1059.4 Bobweight Total 2216.6
My Measured Numbers:
Piston, Pin, Rod End 998.69 Rod Bearing 47.8
Rings 57.7
Rotating End 528.46
Locks 4.4
Oil (each) 2
Reciprocaring Total 2121.58 Rotating Total 1156.53
balance Factor % 50
Reciprocaring Total ½ 1060.79 Bobweight Total 2217.31
diff 0.71
My Individual part measurements:
Ref Number PISTON PIN TOTAL
1 598.5 158.1 756.6
2 598.1 158.3 756.4
3 597.3 158.1 755.4
4 599.6 158.2 757.8
5 598.3 158.2 756.5
6 597.3 158.2 755.5
7 597.9 158.3 756.2
8 598.9 158.0 756.9
AVE 598.2 158.2 756.4
ROD WEIGHTS
Ref Number TOTAL BIG END PIN END
1 771.0 528.3 242.7
2 770.7 528.7 241.5
3 770.4 528.5 242.1
4 770.5 528.8 242.9
5 770.6 528.4 242.8
6 769.6 528.4 241.5
7 771.1 528.5 242.7
8 770.4 528.1 242
AVE 770.5 528.5 242.3
By matching the light pistons with the heavier rods, I minimized the variation in the reciprocating end (piston, pin, small end of rod) to an average weight of 998.7 grams with less than 0.5 gram variance) The lightest combination being 0.29 gram less, and the heavy combination being 0.41 gram more.
Note that the slight difference in rod end weights could just be a slight difference in leveling the rod balance fixture. We are talking weight differences less than half a sheet of paper (A 8-1/2"x11" sheet of printer paper is about 4.5 grams.)
From this information, The Balance measurements from 440 Source look good.
I would have to send the crank out to have the balance on it checked, but I'm going to use it as is.
Posted By: Chris2581
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/02/11 04:25 PM
I don't know what the average + or - tolerance is with different scales,but looks like it's ready to go.Are you going to measure the crank journals,and see what they look like?
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/02/11 04:50 PM
The journals were right on spec, just need to make sure the bearings clear the fillets at the ends of the journals.
The Main bearings that come with the kit actually have a fairly tight oil clearance spec of 0.0005" to 0.0026" (Clevite MS-1795V), that may be the reason some shops polish the mains to get more oil clearance. The GM 2.2" rod bearings have a 0.0010" to 0.0030" oil clearance spec (Clevite CB-743HN.)
My machine shop measured the 4.25" stroke crank 4.253" when measured to mill the block for zero deck? So fat i have only mocked it up for clearancing the 440 block and the crank and rods clear the cylinders easely, only close spot in the oilpump pickup boss. I took a small amount off the boss just to make sure, but it did clear, but was close before I removed the material.
So far everything is going together pretty nice and easy, except the cam bearings (in another post), and I could have gone with them as is, but I'm going to get new ones and clearance them by hand if needed, as I did not like the results from the slotted cam clearance trick as I think it removed more material then necessary.
Posted By: Stanton
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/02/11 07:17 PM
I've bought quire a few of 440Source's stuff and haven't been totally pleased with some of it. But I did buy a fully balanced stroker kit and am totally satisfied with it.
Posted By: steeldust
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/03/11 12:48 AM
I got a 572 kit from them and it was OK but i had it checked and the pistons was OK the rods was OK but the rods had to be honed out for the pins and the crank would run but i had it rebalanced because that"s what BRET said if you don"t won"t TROUBLE and it is running and sounding prefect but any kit i would have got i would have it checked and rebalanced but that"s just me and i would buy from them again
so good luck
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/03/11 08:28 AM
A few of the pin bushings seem tight. Not sure if the edges of the bushings may have been dinged a bit in shipping, or if the entire bushing was machined tight? I'll have to examine them closer to see.
The reason I bothered to measure all this, was when I built my 500" stroked 400 block, with a balanced kit, the machine shop told me it was out of balance and needed weight added to the crank.
Posted By: steeldust
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/03/11 01:20 PM
Quote:
A few of the pin bushings seem tight. Not sure if the edges of the bushings may have been dinged a bit in shipping, or if the entire bushing was machined tight? I'll have to examine them closer to see.
The reason I bothered to measure all this, was when I built my 500" stroked 400 block, with a balanced kit, the machine shop told me it was out of balance and needed weight added to the crank.
I am not going to say that all kits are not right but if you are going to spend the money to build a motor be 100% that the parts are right if you torque the rod bolts or mains or heads do you just torque and stop no i check them three or four times will a machine shop can fine little things and i think your rods needs honing i bet if you won"t ever thing to run smooth with NO TROUBLE but i could wrong . GOOD LUCK
Posted By: Big Squeeze
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/03/11 04:00 PM
Quote:
The journals were right on spec, just need to make sure the bearings clear the fillets at the ends of the journals.
The Main bearings that come with the kit actually have a fairly tight oil clearance spec of 0.0005" to 0.0026" (Clevite MS-1795V), that may be the reason some shops polish the mains to get more oil clearance. The GM 2.2" rod bearings have a 0.0010" to 0.0030" oil clearance spec (Clevite CB-743HN.)
My machine shop measured the 4.25" stroke crank 4.253" when measured to mill the block for zero deck? So fat i have only mocked it up for clearancing the 440 block and the crank and rods clear the cylinders easely, only close spot in the oilpump pickup boss. I took a small amount off the boss just to make sure, but it did clear, but was close before I removed the material.
So far everything is going together pretty nice and easy, except the cam bearings (in another post), and I could have gone with them as is, but I'm going to get new ones and clearance them by hand if needed, as I did not like the results from the slotted cam clearance trick as I think it removed more material then necessary.
How's the indexing?? 
I had one that had a journal off .035" in one direction........I sent it back, got another one, and my original was resold....... 
Posted By: Performance Only
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/03/11 04:20 PM
Quote:
Quote:
The journals were right on spec, just need to make sure the bearings clear the fillets at the ends of the journals.
The Main bearings that come with the kit actually have a fairly tight oil clearance spec of 0.0005" to 0.0026" (Clevite MS-1795V), that may be the reason some shops polish the mains to get more oil clearance. The GM 2.2" rod bearings have a 0.0010" to 0.0030" oil clearance spec (Clevite CB-743HN.)
My machine shop measured the 4.25" stroke crank 4.253" when measured to mill the block for zero deck? So fat i have only mocked it up for clearancing the 440 block and the crank and rods clear the cylinders easely, only close spot in the oilpump pickup boss. I took a small amount off the boss just to make sure, but it did clear, but was close before I removed the material.
So far everything is going together pretty nice and easy, except the cam bearings (in another post), and I could have gone with them as is, but I'm going to get new ones and clearance them by hand if needed, as I did not like the results from the slotted cam clearance trick as I think it removed more material then necessary.
How's the indexing?? I had one that had a journal off .035" in one direction........I sent it back, got another one, and my original was resold.......
how did the replacement crank check out?
Posted By: BLONDE BARRACUDA
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/03/11 05:29 PM
not trying to stir the pot but how do you know your original was resold
Posted By: 383man
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/03/11 06:07 PM
My 4.15 crank kit checked out very good but I also had tight pin rod bushings as it seems everyone I talk to see's this. I honed all of my rod pin bushings some to get the fit I liked. Everything else including miking the crank came out good. Ron
Posted By: DoubleD
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/03/11 06:16 PM
Balanced kit does not mean ready to run! - as with any racing parts - you have to check the tolerences - tight pins are common place on after market rods - it's so you can fit them to your pins!
Posted By: Twostick
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/03/11 09:12 PM
When I got mine from 440Source, Brandon told me the pins would need to be honed to fit. He said that there are different .990" pin manufacturers and that none of them were actually exactly .990, some a little under some a little over so he had his rods come in for the smallest known diameter and then you can hone them to fit ANY .990 pin.
I've said it before that I think buying a pre balanced kit is a waste of $$ because there is no such thing as ready to run parts. If you have to have all the parts checked to confirm the bob weight anyway, you've already paid for a large portion of a balance job. You might as well pay the shop to finish the job and do the final balance too.
Kevin
Posted By: Big Squeeze
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/03/11 10:06 PM
Quote:
how did the replacement crank check out?
Had issues with that one too.......and a thread on here got deleted about it quite a while ago...........long story short, if I moved the crank forward, the counter weight would hit the block before the thrust did.........and he blamed it on my block, but a stock 400 and 383 crank both fit perfectly fine......Then the third one was actually fixable and then useable...... 
Quote:
not trying to stir the pot but how do you know your original was resold
Long story short, I brought the crank up in a thread and the Sourcerer goes into this huge spiel how about how I sent back a crank that was "supposedly bad" and he sent me another.........so I asked in that thread if he actually went through the trouble of checking that "supposedly bad" crank that I told him wasn't useable and he wouldn't answer, even though he was replying to other people and still bashing me.........I told him I wasn't worried about it.....just that I thought it'd be good for him to know to correct it on later cranks........Later in the thread, I said that since you won't answer and since you admitted you NEVER checked it yourself because you're saying that it was "supposedly bad" then I bet you've already resold it.........that's when the thread got deleted....... 
If he'd have actually checked it, he'd have KNOWN it wasn't fixable 
.......and he knows that most people, especially Tight Wad Joe Dirte Mopar guys, aren't going to spend the coin to get their cranks indexed.......
That's when I put the wording in my sig below......
Posted By: Mick70RR
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/03/11 10:08 PM
Quote:
When I got mine from 440Source, Brandon told me the pins would need to be honed to fit. He said that there are different .990" pin manufacturers and that none of them were actually exactly .990, some a little under some a little over so he had his rods come in for the smallest known diameter and then you can hone them to fit ANY .990 pin.
I've said it before that I think buying a pre balanced kit is a waste of $$ because there is no such thing as ready to run parts. If you have to have all the parts checked to confirm the bob weight anyway, you've already paid for a large portion of a balance job. You might as well pay the shop to finish the job and do the final balance too.
Kevin
If that's the case, what about the pin fit in the piston. I hear of rods being honed to fit the pin all the time but I don't remember anyone saying they had to hone the pistons.
Posted By: 383man
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/04/11 01:58 AM
Quote:
Quote:
When I got mine from 440Source, Brandon told me the pins would need to be honed to fit. He said that there are different .990" pin manufacturers and that none of them were actually exactly .990, some a little under some a little over so he had his rods come in for the smallest known diameter and then you can hone them to fit ANY .990 pin.
I've said it before that I think buying a pre balanced kit is a waste of $$ because there is no such thing as ready to run parts. If you have to have all the parts checked to confirm the bob weight anyway, you've already paid for a large portion of a balance job. You might as well pay the shop to finish the job and do the final balance too.
Kevin
If that's the case, what about the pin fit in the piston. I hear of rods being honed to fit the pin all the time but I don't remember anyone saying they had to hone the pistons.
All of my pins fit the pistons fine it was just the rods that were tight. Brandon never told me about a fit to size rod bushing but like I said I just honed my rods to get the fit I wanted with the pins. Ron
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/04/11 05:12 AM
Quote:
That's when I put the wording in my sig below......
And the wording in your sig line is why I had my crank hung in the grinder & checked.... My machinist said it was spot on & that he'd seen quite a few high $$ cranks that had worse taper & indexing issues.. So either I got lucky or Brandon took your comment & did something about it...
Posted By: Big Squeeze
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/04/11 05:16 AM
Quote:
Quote:
That's when I put the wording in my sig below......
And the wording in your sig line is why I had my crank hung in the grinder & checked.... My machinist said it was spot on & that he'd seen quite a few high $$ cranks that had worse taper & indexing issues.. So either I got lucky or Brandon took your comment & did something about it...
That's cool .........I'd actually bought quite a few cranks from him until that last deal broke the camel's back.........All the others either needed the rods or mains (or both) turned, but they were indexable and useable.........
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/04/11 06:22 AM
Today I assembled all the piston/rod assemblies, Installed the crank and installed all the pistons/rods without rings to check piston deck heights and crank indexing.
I did have three pins (on the rods) that were tight, but cleaned up easy. There was a post on turning torque, and with everything assembled (without) piston rings the turning torque is too low to measure with my ft/lb beam torque wrench. Even my click type torque wrench backed off to zero ft/lbs did not even click.
The Machine shop did a good job of getting the deck milled for zero deck height. I put a flat edge across each piston at TDC, and they were right at zero deck
I then installed my degree wheel and found TDC of #1. Then Verified TDC#6 was exactly the same.
Then verified #4 and #7 were at TDC when #1 is at 180 degrees. I verified the TDC using a piston stop that stopped the piston at 22 degrees before/after TDC or 180 (depending on which pistons was measured.) Anyhow, once again no issues and everything checked out. I still need to check crank thrust and rod side clearance.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/04/11 07:16 PM
Crank thrust / end play is 0.007",
Rod side clearance for #1&2 rods = 0.012",
Rods #3&4 = 0.012"
Rods #5&6 = tighter than 0.010", so I'll have to fix that. This pair was also tight on my 500 stroker motor?
Rods #7&8 = 0.010".
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/04/11 08:43 PM
Quote:
Today I assembled all the piston/rod assemblies, Installed the crank and installed all the pistons/rods without rings to check piston deck heights and crank indexing.
I did have three pins (on the rods) that were tight, but cleaned up easy. There was a post on turning torque, and with everything assembled (without) piston rings the turning torque is too low to measure with my ft/lb beam torque wrench. Even my click type torque wrench backed off to zero ft/lbs did not even click.
The Machine shop did a good job of getting the deck milled for zero deck height. I put a flat edge across each piston at TDC, and they were right at zero deck
I then installed my degree wheel and found TDC of #1. Then Verified TDC#6 was exactly the same.
Then verified #4 and #7 were at TDC when #1 is at 180 degrees. I verified the TDC using a piston stop that stopped the piston at 22 degrees before/after TDC or 180 (depending on which pistons was measured.) Anyhow, once again no issues and everything checked out. I still need to check crank thrust and rod side clearance.
Good post. Don`t think you`re going to get a torque reading w/out rings as there`s where most if not all of the drag is.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/05/11 06:57 AM
In this thread:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=5#Post6709396I mentioned the crank should spin easy without piston rings, it it is tight there is a problem with the bearings. With piston rings there will be a good amount of drag making it hard to spin the engine.
I started this post to document my results using the 440 Source stroker kit. There have been several posts on these kits, both good and bad, but not much in the way of actual measured numbers.
Other than getting everything mocked up, and assembling the short block, I don't think I will have the funds to finish the engine this year.
Had a bunch of unexpected medical bills.
I was supposed to have surgery on Friday the 8th, but in the per-op exam they found my blood surger was over 300
So now I have to go get checked for diabetes?
I checked my glucose and it seems to be increasing about 10 every day. Today it was 350.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/17/11 09:48 PM
Here is one thing I found that needed a minor correction. The hole in the back of the crank for the manual transmission pilot bushing was about 0.002" too tight, and also needed to be drilled slightly deeper for the bushing to be flush to the end of the crank. The crank is drill deeper than the bushing length, but there is a step where the crank was machined for the bushing, and the smaller hole is about the same diameter as the bushing inner diameter or a bit larger. The larger size looks like it was machined on a lathe, and the finish was not real smooth. The National PB286HD bushing is 0.88" long and has an outer diameter of 0.941", and inner diameter of 0.753" (advertised.) the crank hole should be 15/16" (0.9375") so the bushing has 0.0035" interference fit (this should reduce the inner diameter close to 0.750". After cracking the first bushing, I checked, and the bore measured 9.350", but the reason I broke the bushing is it hit the inner step before being flush with the end of the crank.
Anyhow, I just used a 15/16" drill bit, to cleanup the bore and drill the hole slightly deeper.
The second bushing went in with no problem.
Posted By: Leigh
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/17/11 10:08 PM
Excellent post! Thanks for taking the time to measure everything. As far as checking everything, I think it is all part of the process of enjoying the final running result. Good luck with the surgery.
Leigh
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/17/11 10:22 PM
Just wanting to detail the build, good and bad, so others will know what to expect. Before I got into this I found many posts, mostly opinions with little information to back them up.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/17/11 10:24 PM
Guys
a couple of grams one way or the other is not a problem--thousands of race units are done within a few and they run fantastic. It is one of those things that just won't matter. Shops use expensive balancers that can find a paperclip taped on a crank but the scales most use are China specials that read different every day you turn them on--an experienced shop that does them everyday will send out a good balance job--it is technique and experience. Even if the scales say 782 today and 783 tomorrow on the same part it will all work out fine.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/18/11 12:34 AM
Quote:
Guys
a couple of grams one way or the other is not a problem--thousands of race units are done within a few and they run fantastic. It is one of those things that just won't matter. Shops use expensive balancers that can find a paperclip taped on a crank but the scales most use are China specials that read different every day you turn them on--an experienced shop that does them everyday will send out a good balance job--it is technique and experience. Even if the scales say 782 today and 783 tomorrow on the same part it will all work out fine.
I made the mistake of buying a scale from Summit Racing. It is the NEXUS brand that proform tools sells (I think 3000g x 1g.) It was near impossable to get repeatable results with that scale.
I bought a MyWeight i5500 scale. It's only around $200, but is a much better scale (5500g x 0.1g resolution) it has a ballance bubble so you can level it, and is temperature compensated.
I was able to get accurate and repeatable results with this scale.
Posted By: FastmOp
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 07/18/11 03:13 AM
Great post!
I love my 440source crank and pistons. I put GRP rods between them though
I went with a 4.5 inch stroke in my stock block motor
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 11/21/11 09:58 AM
Been awhile, finally got around to ordering the cam, lifters, cam bearings, and a bunch of other stuff.
Today, I put the cam bearing in. I used the slotted cam trick, but this time I made sure the slots were nice and sharp without burrs.
Washed the block and installed the crank and cam with the #1 piston for checking TDC (no rings on it yet.) The crank key was a bit too tall not allowing the timing chain sprocket to go on all the way, so I had to fix that before I could degree the cam. Installed the cam straight up and it centerlined right at 108 degrees. Comp cams recommends 106. I have the 440 source timming set with the roller thrust washer, and multi-key crank gear, so advancing the cam should be easy.
I have been thinking of installing the cam at 104 degrees, but not sure if it will make much difference?
Anyhow, I do have to say I like the 440 source timing set. This is the second one I have used and they fit nice with no slack in the chain.
I also started mocking up the stealth heads. The Comp XR286HR-10 Hydraulic roller cam needs a bit different spring, so I am swapping out the springs retainers and locks.
Comp recommends their 925-16 springs, but I am using the Isky 8005A springs. The Isky springs are 400#/in compared to 395#/in of the comps, with about the same seat pressure. Installed at 1.880" they should be about 130# on the seat.
The retainers are Comp 748-16 10-degree retainers. They are standard height and fit the springs well.
The 10-degree comp 611-16 are also standard height 11/16" valve stem locks.
The stock Install height of the stealth retainers /locks was 1.83", and just swapping the new retainers/locks the install height went to 1.91", so I have to use a 0.030" shim to get my 1.880" install height.
Also, now that the the retainers/locks are closer to the valve tip, my cheepie CAT stainless rockers hit the locks, so I will have to grind the tabs off or get different rockers.
That's about it for the updates, but I hope to get the rest assembled this week.
Posted By: keelsracing
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 11/21/11 02:15 PM
Slotted Cam Trick ????
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 11/21/11 04:56 PM
Quote:
Slotted Cam Trick ????
Sorry, the cam bearings were tight, so I used an old cam with slots cut in it to shave the cam bearings to size. I tried this earlier, but did not clean up the burrs after slotting the cam journals ans it took too much off the bearings, so I cleaned up the slots, de-burring them and this time it did a good job sizing the cam bearings.
Posted By: dodgeboy11
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 11/22/11 08:27 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Slotted Cam Trick ????
Sorry, the cam bearings were tight, so I used an old cam with slots cut in it to shave the cam bearings to size. I tried this earlier, but did not clean up the burrs after slotting the cam journals ans it took too much off the bearings, so I cleaned up the slots, de-burring them and this time it did a good job sizing the cam bearings.
I'm not a fan of the slotted cam trick. I like to put some green scotch brite in a slotted mandrel and clean up the bores really good with a die grinder. Then I clean off the leading outside edge of the cam bearings so they start in the cam bores without pulling material and I also take a razor blade and de-bur both inside edges of the cam bearings as I've seen a little bit of an edge that can cause the cam to be tight. I've had fair to good luck doing this. Sometimes though, I've had to use the scotch brite on the inside of the bearings. Not my preferred method, but the cam really does need to turn freely.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 11/22/11 10:55 AM
I was undecided on what I wanted to do for the intake/carb. I finally decided to just get the Performer RPM intake and Holley 770 cfm Ultra street avenger carb (in blue.) The 770 cfm might be a bit small, might limit power to around 520 HP? No big deal as the car will be mostly street driven. I really want EFI, maybe the MDS unit when it comes out next year? I think I'm going to run TTI headers and exhaust too. Not sure when I'll have the $$$$ for that.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 11/26/11 07:55 AM
Today, I profiled the cam after degreeing it in at 106 CL. I gapped the rings and installed all but one piston. I am missing one oil ring support
I E-Mailed 440 source tonight, waiting for a reply.
I checked the valve distance from seated to the piston at TDC (with no head gasket), and got 0.358" intake, and 0.385 exhaust. So I should have at least 0.398" with a 0.040" head gasket.
By checking lobe lift every degree around TDC, and measuring piston position with a bridge, it looks like the Intake valve is closest to the piston at 8-degrees ATDC, but I should have 0.2038" PV clearance
I figured it would be plenty using such a mild cam, but it's fun measuring this stuff for future reference (and to get away from the wife and kids for a few hours.)
Anyhow, Next will be working on the stealth heads. Need to make pushrod clearance if I want to use the 1.7:1 rockers. So far I only checked the valve job on one chamber, but it looked good. Guides seemed fine too. I might gasket match and clean up the ports, but the castings look pretty good.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 01/13/12 07:08 AM
Wow, I haven't updated this in a long time.
I have been busy doing all the stuff necessary after my father passes away in August. Been spending most of my free time getting his house ready to sell.
Anyhow, I did some mild porting on the stealth heads, and had a valve job done on them, and flow tested a chamber. Tonight I bolted a head on and measured for pushrod length. Looks like I will need 8.450" length. I am going to use the CAT stainless rockers. I ground down the valve tip locator tangs so they don't hit the valve spring retainers. After messing with these cheap rockers I don't think I would use them again, just too many things needing correcting.
Here is the headflow numbers:
Lift Intake Exhaust
0.100" / 82 / 81
0.200" / 157 / 127
0.300" / 221 / 151
0.400" / 260 / 174
0.500" / 278 / 190
0.600" / 283 / 200
0.700" / 289 / 211
0.800" / 289 / 215
Posted By: dogdays
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 01/13/12 05:58 PM
Hey, who is the guy over there in Aurora selling new aluminum blocks on Craigslist? Is he for real?
R.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 01/13/12 11:54 PM
Quote:
Hey, who is the guy over there in Aurora selling new aluminum blocks on Craigslist? Is he for real?
R.
I did not know about this.
Do you have a link, I may be able to check it out?
Posted By: kingdust
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 01/14/12 12:53 AM
Quote:
Quote:
how did the replacement crank check out?
Had issues with that one too.......and a thread on here got deleted about it quite a while ago...........long story short, if I moved the crank forward, the counter weight would hit the block before the thrust did.........and he blamed it on my block, but a stock 400 and 383 crank both fit perfectly fine......Then the third one was actually fixable and then useable......
Quote:
not trying to stir the pot but how do you know your original was resold
Long story short, I brought the crank up in a thread and the Sourcerer goes into this huge spiel how about how I sent back a crank that was "supposedly bad" and he sent me another.........so I asked in that thread if he actually went through the trouble of checking that "supposedly bad" crank that I told him wasn't useable and he wouldn't answer, even though he was replying to other people and still bashing me.........I told him I wasn't worried about it.....just that I thought it'd be good for him to know to correct it on later cranks........Later in the thread, I said that since you won't answer and since you admitted you NEVER checked it yourself because you're saying that it was "supposedly bad" then I bet you've already resold it.........that's when the thread got deleted.......
If he'd have actually checked it, he'd have KNOWN it wasn't fixable .......and he knows that most people, especially Tight Wad Joe Dirte Mopar guys, aren't going to spend the coin to get their cranks indexed.......
That's when I put the wording in my sig below......
tight wad joe dirt mopar guys!LMFAO thats funny s--t!
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 01/14/12 06:15 AM
Why quote something that is not part of this thread?
Anyhow, Today I measured the intake port lengths, and cross section, the head port length and min cross section, same for the exhaust ports and headers so I could enter better information into the Dynosim5 simulation. Most of what I entered was pretty close to what I originally estimated so no big change is estimated power.
The simulation is estimating 562 HP @ 4,800 RPM, and 646 ft/lbs torque at 4,200 RPM, with 434 ft/lbs at 1,000 RPM.
I also ordered the pushrods, 8.475" length, 5/16" diameter by 0.083" wall, ball/ball ends. Alread got a UPS notification that they have been shipped!
And got my Walker Quietflow SS mufflers today. I hope they fit, they are several inches longer than the super turbos that came with the TTI exhaust system.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 01/14/12 06:30 AM
Looking through the posts, I forgot to mention that the reason the #5/6 rod side clearance was tight is one of the rod caps had the bearing notch too far towards the crank and the bearing was pushing off the crank fillet. This was only in the cap, not the rod, so with the bearing installed in the rod you could see the cap side bearing was not in as far as the rod side bearing.
I just put a small chamfer on the bearing and all is fine now. Anyhow, this would be the one issue with the kit that I was disappointed in. The rest of the rods were fine?
Posted By: BDS871Cuda
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 01/14/12 06:48 AM
Quote:
Hey, who is the guy over there in Aurora selling new aluminum blocks on Craigslist? Is he for real?
R.
World Products aluminum Dodge 440 W block $5375
Looks real, give him a call 303-719-7848
I would go for the Hemi block, same price.
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 01/25/12 05:23 AM
Well the engine is just about done. just need to swap distrubitor, pulleys and motor mounts from the old engine.
Posted By: 70blackfish
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 01/25/12 05:31 AM
how big is it?
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 01/25/12 06:03 AM
Quote:
how big is it?
It's stock
just kidding, 505", 4.25" stroke 0.030" over 440.
Posted By: smokinwoody
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 01/25/12 01:22 PM
Quote:
Quote:
how big is it?
It's stock
just kidding, 505", 4.25" stroke 0.030" over 440.
nice build...
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 08/09/12 05:22 AM
Thought I'd throw an update in. I have been driving the car and tuning the engine. Right now, I have the disrtubitor curved and set for 16 degrees initial and 35 degrees total, plus about 7-8 degrees vacuum advance. Idle vacuum is only 7-8" @ 900 rpm, the altitude here in Denver really hurts vacuum numbers, but the engine does not sound choppy. I don't recall the jet sizes I'm using, but it is leaned out a bit from the factory setting, and I'm still using the stock accelerator pump cam, discharge nozzles, and secondary spring.
I had to drill 1/8" holes in the throttles to stay out of the transfer slots at idle.
The GlenRay radiator with the Mopar viscous clutch fan and reproduction shroud are working good at cooling the engine even on 100+ degree days.
The transmission clutch still slips under full throttle so I have not chassis dynoed the car.
Today I ordered a Keisler SS700 5-speed, with clutch and all the other parts to swap out the A-833. They have free shipping if ordered before Sept 21st. Delivery expected in October?
I'll have to get some pictures to update this, and let you know how the new transmission works out.
Posted By: mopar400
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update - 09/13/12 03:32 PM
Nice build! I have one question on the crank key. Could you use the factory key and just remove some material on the bottom side for it to fit down in the slot? I had heard this was an issue. Thanks, Kevin
Posted By: polyspheric
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 09/13/12 04:01 PM
O/T, but these tools can be very useful for getting that edge off very quickly.
http://www.vargus.com/shaviv/
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 06/16/18 06:02 PM
Sort of an update to this old engine build.
The original combination is nice foe a mild engine. Has alot of torque. I never got to the chassis dyno to get numbers.
Since then, I installed the Edelbrock XT EFI system, the Billet specialities Tru-Track system, and Vintage air A/C.
Always making changes, changed out the fuel tank with sump and external EFI pump for the Spectra EFI tank with internal pump, and changing out the original Edelbrock EFI controller to a modern self-learning FAST 2.0 EFI controller. Also adding 4-wheel power disk brakes.
The Keisler LGT-700 5-speed trans is holding up will, but I need to check driveline angles and driveshaft balance as I get a driveline vibration at around 100+ MPH.
Old photo of EFI and Tru-Track:
Posted By: CSK
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 06/16/18 06:38 PM
very nice
Posted By: Roughbird72
Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements. - 06/16/18 07:49 PM
Balanced kit does not mean ready to run! - as with any racing parts - you have to check the tolerences - tight pins are common place on after market rods - it's so you can fit them to your pins!
