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Stock stroke 360 on the dyno
Posted By: RAMM
Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/12/11 07:49 PM
Ok so it isn't exactly a race engine but it is fairly strong for what it is. What is it? Here's the rundown: '78 360 .040"
linehoned/decked, stock stroke cast crankshaft cut .010"/.020"
Eagle SIR rods, KB 107's, pocket ported 'J heads 1.94"/1.60" , Professional Products Crosswind intake, Lunati VooDoo hydraulic cam #60404, stock stamped rockers, Holley 750 dbl, garden variety 1 5/8" street style headers, Magnaflow mufflers, etc...
Considering the 9.7 comp ratio, open chamber J heads that were mildly worked and subsequently registered 231 cfm @.480" on the SF-1020, I really wasn't expecting much more than 400 hp and maybe 415 lb/ft at the peaks. I will definately be using this camshaft, in this combination again. The customer reports excellent manners on the street with a good strong surge of power to well above 6000+ rpm. So here it is on the dyno with some data to accompany the above. I feel this engine is very representative of a mild 360 build that should be fun on the street and not breaking the bank. J.Rob
Posted By: RAMM
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/12/11 07:50 PM
Sheet of the first pull. J.Rob
Posted By: RAMM
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/12/11 07:53 PM
Here's one of the last pull for today. Not bad huh? J.Rob
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/12/11 07:54 PM
Nice motor,
Bullet-proof 440+ hp smallblock, iron heads and hydraulic cam, kickin' it old school and that's WAY KEWL!!
Posted By: RAMM
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/12/11 07:54 PM
We were obviously having a little fun. Still very interesting though, I thought. Blew the customer's mind. J.Rob
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/12/11 07:55 PM
Nice engine! Looks like it could would do good in a strong street car.
Posted By: RAMM
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/12/11 07:57 PM
Forgot to mention that this was tested on 89 octane mid grade winter fuel. Up here it's known as MacEwen's gas. Some further testing on Monday but not much. J.Rob
Posted By: domingo
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/12/11 08:03 PM
I built one just the same, same KB 107 pistons, same heads, but I went one notch lower with the cam with th 286/276 one
and I used stock valve sizes on the heads....and a preformer intake, eddy carb.
I was impressed on how hard it pulled for what it was....
I was leaving my buddy with his 65 350 vette and my other buddy with his 65 Mustang Fback which had a 302 with aluminum eddy heads, and a bunch of other stuff in the dust!!!
Posted By: 1Fast340
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/12/11 08:04 PM
looks to be a very good build for some streetfun with lots of torque down low and good power upstairs
something that just hit me on how flat the power goes at 5500-6000 could it be one of these two reasons
1.running out of air basicly from ports not flowing anymore?
2.some kind of instability in the valvetrain?
not a profesional just checking if what litle i may have picked up over the years could be the right thoughts
Posted By: domingo
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/12/11 08:06 PM
Posted By: domingo
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/12/11 08:07 PM
Posted By: sshemi
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/12/11 10:18 PM
Quote:
looks to be a very good build for some streetfun with lots of torque down low and good power upstairs
something that just hit me on how flat the power goes at 5500-6000 could it be one of these two reasons
1.running out of air basicly from ports not flowing anymore?
2.some kind of instability in the valvetrain?
not a profesional just checking if what litle i may have picked up over the years could be the right thoughts
I would say both heads and cam.
I had one like that but with M1 intake and .557 mopar cam it went 11.5 in a -66 valiant
Posted By: goldmember
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/13/11 12:02 AM
I'd like to know what changes were made between the 1st and last dyno runs.
Posted By: RAMM
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/13/11 01:44 AM
The only changes were the addition of a 1.5" Wilson 4 hole spacer and I packed the intake with snow. Timing was not changed for any pull and remained @ 35 total. J.Rob
Posted By: moturbopar
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/13/11 03:03 AM
Wow making me rethink my cam choice. My build is similar, but i have 2.02 valves M1 single plane, but a comp ex268. That lunati cam really runs well and make power all over the place.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/13/11 03:18 AM
Nice little small block,glad to see you posting this stuff.Maybe I will do the same soon.
Keith
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/13/11 03:35 AM
Quote:
Wow making me rethink my cam choice. My build is similar, but i have 2.02 valves M1 single plane, but a comp ex268. That lunati cam really runs well and make power all over the place.
I just did a similar 360 with the 268 cam and 9.7:1 and it made 380HP.
More cam and carb really make a difference but some guys want a "good" idle.
I wish I had some snow laying around!! LOL..that was classic. Did you learn that from the EMC?
Are you going this year? I still haven't ran our pig with different heads...been swamped the last 7 months.
Posted By: Crazy68Dart
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/13/11 03:35 AM
I suppose there is a similar spec cam for BB? I have a mild 383 (stock 906 heads, stock bottom end) that I might consider using one in.
Posted By: RAMM
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/13/11 01:46 PM
Quote:
I just did a similar 360 with the 268 cam and 9.7:1 and it made 380HP.
More cam and carb really make a difference but some guys want a "good" idle.
I wish I had some snow laying around!! LOL..that was classic. Did you learn that from the EMC?
Are you going this year? I still haven't ran our pig with different heads...been swamped the last 7 months.
Yeah this is pretty much one of the only times I like having snow on the ground. No I didn't learn that from the EMC as I am always testing in September. I learned that in Grade 8 science-about volumes and densities and their relationships to temperature. Yes I did apply for the EMC again-I would really like to give it one more shot. Probably a big block again--I really like the B engine-hint hint.. You never did get back to me with more details on how your testing went 
J.Rob
Posted By: gch
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/13/11 02:18 PM
Dyno sheet says 830 holley and text says 750.Which one?Is it just me or is the a/f ratio on the first run pig rich down low and still rich up top?
Nice numbers.Gives me ideas for the rebuilt 360 I just bought for peanuts with a 727.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/13/11 05:28 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I just did a similar 360 with the 268 cam and 9.7:1 and it made 380HP.
More cam and carb really make a difference but some guys want a "good" idle.
I wish I had some snow laying around!! LOL..that was classic. Did you learn that from the EMC?
Are you going this year? I still haven't ran our pig with different heads...been swamped the last 7 months.
Yeah this is pretty much one of the only times I like having snow on the ground. No I didn't learn that from the EMC as I am always testing in September. I learned that in Grade 8 science-about volumes and densities and their relationships to temperature. Yes I did apply for the EMC again-I would really like to give it one more shot. Probably a big block again--I really like the B engine-hint hint.. You never did get back to me with more details on how your testing went J.Rob
I'm not finished testing! I've been so busy I just don't have any time to try my W2's.
I'm pretty sure I know what I did wrong just need to try my W2's to see for myself.
That part about learing that at the EMC was a joke....hope you got that!!
Posted By: ChrgrCuda
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/13/11 05:54 PM
Do you mind me asking what size jets you had in it?
Posted By: RAMM
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/13/11 06:12 PM
Quote:
Dyno sheet says 830 holley and text says 750.Which one?Is it just me or is the a/f ratio on the first run pig rich down low and still rich up top?
Nice numbers.Gives me ideas for the rebuilt 360 I just bought for peanuts with a 727.
I forgot to change the specifications from the previous dyno session. I did try the 830 and it was better but not by much. As for the jetting I pulled 3 jet sizes out after that first test which made the fuel curve ideal from the bottom to the top. J.Rob
Posted By: ademon
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/13/11 06:15 PM
so that wilson 4-hole is the S**T? or was it the cold intake? is that a tapered 4 -hole?
Posted By: RAMM
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/13/11 06:25 PM
The Wilson 4 hole is worth about 14 hp on this combo and the cold intake was worth another 13 hp on that particular test. Realistically this engine was producing a solid 425 hp with 430 lb/ft every test. Icing down the intake was purely for getting some big numbers to print out and have some fun with the 383 Chev guys at the parking lot this summer. 460 ft/lbs from a basic stock stroke 360 does not happen. J.Rob
Posted By: RAMM
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/13/11 06:27 PM
Quote:
Do you mind me asking what size jets you had in it?
I can answer that on Monday. I actually don't remember. J.Rob
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/13/11 07:28 PM
Looking at the first and second dyno sheets it looks like you lean it down, which it seems the motor really liked
What happened to the AFR readings on the 2nd sheet
Posted By: RAMM
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 02:36 AM
Quote:
Looking at the first and second dyno sheets it looks like you lean it down, which it seems the motor really liked What happened to the AFR readings on the 2nd sheet
I knew what the A/F ratio was from the previous tests and left the air turbine off for the last BONZAI pull. I do wish I had that data though-thanks for reminding me. J.Rob
Posted By: W5DART66
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 02:54 AM
Good job on this engine BUT A BIG BLOCK for EM..... what class?
Posted By: RAMM
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 03:01 AM
Street of course--I'm not that smart but I'm smart enough to know when I'm way outgunned. I'm hoping to crack the top ten in a field of 20 presuming I've been accepted. Will you be there Brett? J.Rob
Posted By: W5DART66
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 03:04 AM
If I get picked I guess we will know monday???? I will do W8 engine for XTREME SRTEET .
Posted By: cbarracuda
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 03:20 AM
Good engine, good numbers, 500 hp in a 360 pump gas. There is something that caught my attention: a 1978 block, I guess a factory block, cut 0.40 when every book recommends 0.20 maximun 0.30. good power. I have a 1971 360 and plan to cut this 0.80. Congratulations on your results!
Posted By: domingo
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 04:43 AM
Quote:
Good engine, good numbers, 500 hp in a 360 pump gas. There is something that caught my attention: a 1978 block, I guess a factory block, cut 0.40 when every book recommends 0.20 maximun 0.30. good power. I have a 1971 360 and plan to cut this 0.80. Congratulations on your results!
They have sonic testers up there so they know how much is safe to bore out b4 the walls get too thin. Which year is it dosnt really mean a thing. The earlier castings being thicker are just myths.
I think your 71 360 is the same casting as a 340 block...I have heard it was like that with the first years of the 360 when production overlapped with the 340...that would be the 71-73 360 castings. Still Id be afraid to cut that much without having a sonic tester. You might end up with cylinders with bores as thick as a coke can and ruin a good 360 block.
Posted By: cbarracuda
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 05:08 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Good engine, good numbers, 500 hp in a 360 pump gas. There is something that caught my attention: a 1978 block, I guess a factory block, cut 0.40 when every book recommends 0.20 maximun 0.30. good power. I have a 1971 360 and plan to cut this 0.80. Congratulations on your results!
They have sonic testers up there so they know how much is safe to bore out b4 the walls get too thin. Which year is it dosnt really mean a thing. The earlier castings being thicker are just myths.
I think your 71 360 is the same casting as a 340 block...I have heard it was like that with the first years of the 360 when production overlapped with the 340...that would be the 71-73 360 castings. Still Id be afraid to cut that much without having a sonic tester. You might end up with cylinders with bores as thick as a coke can and ruin a good 360 block.
you are right about 1971 to 1973 360 factory blocks, same casting as a 340. i had the two blocks together, a 1990 and 1971 360 and can tell the difference in cylinder wall. of course a sonic test will tell you if the block is good for more like a 4.100
Posted By: domingo
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 06:00 AM
if you are gonna cut it 0,080" it would be like cutting a 340 0,040" over. Thats close to sonic testing territory already, specially with a block that has seen service life and has the water jackets a bit corroded.
Id just cut it to std 340 bore size at 4,04" if it will clean uo at that. Why push it if you dont have a sonic tester? Id rather have thick walls than 0,040" more bore. Its not like you are gonna shroud the valves!
Posted By: cbarracuda
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 06:12 AM
Domingo This is not a corroded block like the ones we see every day. I pulled this block myself out of a mobile home with 48000 miles, no rust at all and payed for the shipping to Peru
Posted By: BDS871Cuda
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 07:53 AM
Quote:
if you are gonna cut it 0,080" it would be like cutting a 340 0,040" over. Thats close to sonic testing territory already, specially with a block that has seen service life and has the water jackets a bit corroded.
Id just cut it to std 340 bore size at 4,04" if it will clean uo at that. Why push it if you dont have a sonic tester? Id rather have thick walls than 0,040" more bore. Its not like you are gonna shroud the valves!
I agree straight thick cylinders are far better.
Most pro builders don't put to much into bore size
in a stock block. Most agree thicker cylinder
walls are much better.
372 CI or 365 CI not much difference in HP.
But!!! cylinder flex will lose HP.
Posted By: domingo
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 03:27 PM
Quote:
Quote:
if you are gonna cut it 0,080" it would be like cutting a 340 0,040" over. Thats close to sonic testing territory already, specially with a block that has seen service life and has the water jackets a bit corroded.
Id just cut it to std 340 bore size at 4,04" if it will clean uo at that. Why push it if you dont have a sonic tester? Id rather have thick walls than 0,040" more bore. Its not like you are gonna shroud the valves!
I agree straight thick cylinders are far better.
Most pro builders don't put to much into bore size
in a stock block. Most agree thicker cylinder
walls are much better.
372 CI or 365 CI not much difference in HP.
But!!! cylinder flex will lose HP.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 04:19 PM
I'm still scratching my head as to why I pulled out a perfectly good 341" (3.91" 318 factory roller block with an MP 3.55" 4340 stroke) to put in the 414, I'll bet this puppy made about 440hp (PLENTY!!) with a 236/240@.050 Hyd Roller and stock E-heads.
I agree, never take the bores out any more than they need to, keeping the meat in the bores of a stock block is worth more power than a couple extra "ego" cubes.
Posted By: kielbasa
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 04:35 PM
also agree overboring should be kept to a minimum, however what if a typical .030 cut isn't enough to put the bores back over the crank cl??? My 318 block was barely able to have the bores corrected with a .030 cut (withing a couple of thou), and same with my 360 block....fortunately i sonic checked wall thickness and core shift to know i could safely bore beforehand. i'm assuming the lesser of two evils is to have thicker bores a few thou out of location, yes?
Posted By: patrick
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 06:19 PM
Quote:
I'm still scratching my head as to why I pulled out a perfectly good 341" (3.91" 318 factory roller block with an MP 3.55" 4340 stroke) to put in the 414, I'll bet this puppy made about 440hp (PLENTY!!) with a 236/240@.050 Hyd Roller and stock E-heads.
I've been doing the same thing.....I thought you were crazy to dump that motor
it's not like Rocky needed more TORK!
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 06:24 PM
LOL Patrick, yeah every time I trip over the "extra" motor in my limited garage I realize what a head-case I am!
The 414 $$ deal just kind of was an offer I couldn't refuse
Posted By: domingo
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/14/11 06:28 PM
Quote:
LOL Patrick, yeah every time I trip over the "extra" motor in my limited garage I realize what a head-case I am!
The 414 $$ deal just kind of was an offer I couldn't refuse
You were gonna be sent to sleep with da fish if you didnt buy it?
Posted By: cbarracuda
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/15/11 04:10 AM
thank guys next time I will buy am R3 block, I will leave the bore at 3.900 to have thicker wall.
Posted By: domingo
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/15/11 05:18 AM
Quote:
thank guys next time I will buy am R3 block, I will leave the bore at 3.900 to have thicker wall.
No need to be sarcastic Carlos. Besides your 360 has a bore of 4.00" you would need to sleeve it to go down to 3,90. Heck even the 318 is just 3,91" std bore.
In the end, the extra 0,040" overbore you are thinking of will yield just an extra 8 inches on a 4" stroke crank motor.
That should amount to an extra 10hp - 15hp on your w2 motor at the most. Thats if your cylinder walls are nice and thick at the thrust side.
If you think that will give you the extra edge that you need to go win races, then go for it.
Posted By: RAMM
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/15/11 01:21 PM
Well after testing yesterday morning I was able to try a few things that may be of some interest to some. The air quality was very good yesterday with the correction factor hovering at about 1.00 which is rare. Usually the STP correction factor is anywhere from 1.025-1.05
Anyways I started with the four hole Wilson and power was 427-428 @ 5900-6000rpm with torque in the 435-437 ft/lb range with excellent consistency from pull to pull. Jetting wound up @ 80-85 with the customers 750 Proform. Timing was 35 total and not changed. Just to satisfy my curiosity I removed the electric water pump and installed the customer's water pump with a single v belt. Torque was unaffected but power was now down about 7-8 hp at the very top of the RPM range. The last 2 tests were to verify power output minus the spacer and electric water pump. Torque was solidly up into the 440 lb/ft range with horsepower unaffected and still hanging @ 420-421. The no spacer pull's averages were actually 1 hp and 1.5 ft/lbs better over the entire 3500 rpm-6000 rpm span. I do not have a scanner at the shop so maybe I can scan and post the sheets tonight. I will have another stock stroke 360 with ported EQ Magnums on the dyno soon-it will be very interesting to see how it compares. J.Rob
Posted By: Rapid340
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/15/11 01:27 PM
Thank you.
Posted By: patrick
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/15/11 03:24 PM
1.2 ft-lb/cid is pretty nice for a simple, low tech street motor...
Posted By: cudadoug
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/15/11 04:03 PM
I think this has been a very interesting read. And, an impressive motor. I have new respect for that Voodoo grind, I'll tell ya! Like a good book, can't wait to see what the EQ-headed 360 is all about, since I'm going that way with a 408 soon.
This "street" motor, with the right converter and traction would be deep in the 11's while able to be driven both ways...
Thanks RAMM
Posted By: RAMM
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/15/11 04:42 PM
Thanks for the thanks. I am quite hopeful that the EQ headed 367 will make quite a bit more steam than this mild example-but--- you never really know until you do it. Sometimes less really is more. J.Rob
Posted By: CompWedgeEngines
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/15/11 05:31 PM
Depending on how you prepped the EQ heads and camshaft, I think they may surpirse some people here.
Posted By: cudadoug
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/15/11 06:19 PM
Quote:
Depending on how you prepped the EQ heads and camshaft, I think they may surpirse some people here.
I would agree. Although we're not done with them, the EQ's I have flow VERY WELL below .550 and very near the RHS heads on our bracket car above .550.
Posted By: moturbopar
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 03/31/11 03:55 AM
So how do you think this engine would have done with the 268/276 voodoo cam?
Posted By: Retroboy
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 12/30/15 12:28 AM
Howdy I know this is an old post but it's appeared on my computor at the perfect time. I have a vintage front engine dragster for a bit of 1/8th mile fun and I just lost lobes off my old ST21 RB camshaft and subsequent damage. My 360 is identical to this engine - valves heads etc except I have KB 190 pistons so it has a little more compression. I put the lower set of torque numbers in to a decent racing simulator and this basic lazy combo will run 5.60's in my car. Thanks you've made Cam selection easy for me. Cheers
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 12/30/15 03:27 AM
Impressive! I have almost the exact same built going in to a 2100 lb street rod with 3.55 gearing - 727 trans with 3000 stall convertor. Can I get it in the 12's?
Posted By: Retroboy
Re: Stock stroke 360 on the dyno - 12/30/15 10:51 PM
Impressive! I have almost the exact same built going in to a 2100 lb street rod with 3.55 gearing - 727 trans with 3000 stall convertor. Can I get it in the 12's?
Easy