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EFI: converting to Methanol

Posted By: Mopar_Rich

EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/06/11 11:36 PM

I decided to convert the HEMI in the dragster from gasoline to Methanol. Saturday 3/5 was the first test-and-tune day at the track.

Previous best for this car running on pump gas (the motor is only 10.5:1 CR), was 7.63 @ 173 MPH at below sea level density altitude. On Saturday it ran 7.50 @ 177 at 1000' DA. I'd say that was a nice improvement.

You may have heard that alcohol contaminates the oil, but after a full day of running, when I drained the oil it looked like new. This goes to prove that if you build a motor with good ring seal you can run E85 or even methanol with minimal problems.

All I had to do was to change the injectors, because you will burn 2.2 times the amount of fuel, and I changed the fuel energy constant in the software. Target A/F ratio for Methanol is about 5.6:1 at WOT. BTW: The wideband that FAST uses will read accurately down to 3.5:1 and it's totally alcohol compatible. Hoo - hooo - a good day!

Attached picture 6514462-WithHemi2700pix.jpg
Posted By: topfueldart

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/06/11 11:43 PM

Rich, your a



Nice work as always. Your car is a work of art, and a great racecar to boot!
Posted By: Mopar_Rich

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/06/11 11:53 PM

Thanks. It was one of the least problematic T&T days in recent experience. The only negative thing was that the jack broke that we use during warm up. I can't explain why that Walmart quality just didn't last.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/07/11 03:37 AM

Good to see you out there yesterday Rich. The car was running like a xerox machine. Look forward to seeing you in Vegas at the Q16. Should be interesting to see how the car runs with the DA there as well.
Posted By: toddd

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/07/11 03:51 AM

Thanks for the good info!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/07/11 04:32 AM

Nice job... sure helps having the EFI so your not
dumping in un-needed fuel
Posted By: Mopar_Rich

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/07/11 07:40 AM

Quote:

Good to see you out there yesterday Rich. The car was running like a xerox machine. Look forward to seeing you in Vegas at the Q16. Should be interesting to see how the car runs with the DA there as well.



Thanks Al. I should have used a little more timing too. Maybe next time I'll kick it up 2 degrees.
Posted By: Kam*Kuda

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/07/11 12:35 PM

Nice, Its great when you know how to tune EFI.
I hope to learn
Its Amazing how little you had to change things to ge the new fuel to work
Posted By: Mopar_Rich

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/07/11 04:51 PM

There wasn't much to the tuning part.
* I changed the fuel energy constant in the software from 1.0 for gasoline to .438 for Methanol.
* I changed the injector size in the software from 83 lb/hr to 160 lb/hr.
* I made a few passes and adjusted the WOT section of the VE table to get the closed loop correction factor below 5%.

Since my fuel pump and lines were already up to the task of handling alcohol at 2.2 times the flow rate, the hardest part was actually changing the injectors, and I had to swap out one of the fuel filters because paper filter elements will not hold up to alcohol. All in all it was pretty easy.

Some of my buddies were concerned that it would be hard to start, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I guess when you inject right at the valve it fires on the first crank.

Can't wait for MATS!!!
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/07/11 05:17 PM

nice gain do you have some more info and maybe pics of the injection system?
Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/07/11 05:55 PM

That Hemi looks in your dragster. I have the Ron's terminators on mine,have to prime it when cold but after that cranks fine. After its warm it cranks fine but due to the tank being lower than the injectors and manual fuel pump,you have to be ready to keep it running when its first fires. Mine does not milk the oil either.
They tell me the VP M5 is the Hot Ticket now running alcohol,plan on trying some this season. Forgot to mention mine is a o'll wedge,always wanted a Hemi but looks like I will never be able to afford one.

Attached picture 6516060-so14.jpg.jpg
Posted By: Mopar_Rich

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/07/11 06:37 PM

I'm running an electric pump so there's no priming required. It fires right up and stays running because the ECU is programmed to automatically add fuel and keep the idle up during the warm up.
Posted By: Mopar_Rich

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/07/11 06:57 PM

Quote:

nice gain do you have some more info and maybe pics of the injection system?



Here's a shot that shows the fuel rails and the throttle body. Nothing very different from a street setup except the throttle body is a 4500 style.




One thing that is different from these pics is that I replaced the fuel lines with Teflon lined braided steel lines. NHRA said I had to replace the nylon braided fuel lines on any higher pressure EFI system, so I had to change them anyway.



Here's where I have the ECU(s) mounted. The XFI is the main ECU and the XIM, on the right, controls the ignition coils.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/07/11 10:09 PM

What cu. in. engine is it?
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/07/11 10:14 PM

very nice, thanks
Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/08/11 12:05 AM

Congrats on the swap over Rich.. I heard that thing picked up a bunch..
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/08/11 01:08 AM

Rich, you may want to try a couple less degrees timing. Alky likes a touch less than gas. My 528 wedge likes 34*. If you get a chance, would love to hear results.
Posted By: Mopar_Rich

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/08/11 02:38 AM

Quote:

Rich, you may want to try a couple less degrees timing. Alky likes a touch less than gas. My 528 wedge likes 34*. If you get a chance, would love to hear results.



I'll go both ways at the next race and let you know.
I'm at 33 right now and the plug burn is perfect.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/08/11 03:54 AM

Rch, dont forget you are knocking on that advanced ET door too. Not that it is a bad thing
Posted By: Mopar_Rich

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/10/11 02:36 AM

Quote:

Rich, don't forget you are knocking on that advanced ET door too. Not that it is a bad thing



Good point. Oh well, I'm legal.
Posted By: Garceau

Re: EFI: converting to Methanol - 03/16/11 12:46 AM

I so want to set the next car up for EFI.

Thinking hemi would be cool too -
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