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stock block stroker big block how big do you like them

Posted By: earthmover

stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 06:31 AM

ok guys i know get a race block but just not in the budget so lets hear how big you like your stock block stroker motors and how much power you've made with them...440/400 give a run down if you can car,weight,and et,also what did you do the bottom end like main, and girdles or what mike
Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 06:59 AM

Six years ago I had my current combo ran on a chassis dyno.
1974 440 with the Hensley stroker kit consisting of Eagle 4.15 stroke crank, Ross 10.8 pistons, Box stock Edelbrock 84cc heads, MP '509 cam installed 4 degrees adv, Performer RPM intake, BG 850 vs carb, 1 7/8 headers and 31 degrees of adv in a MP electronic ignition. Any more spark lead and the car detonated like marbles in a coffee can. It recorded a net # of 370 HP and 452 TQ. I expected higher numbers, but the dyno operator said a straight up setting would have helped the cam and move the power range up some. The parasitic drivetrain losses can add between 20-25% for a 727 equipped combo, so I could've been making around 495 HP and 600 TQ at the flywheel.
Posted By: DaKuda

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 07:05 AM

451 or 471........
Posted By: RAMM

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 02:16 PM



451-471 seems about the best with stock block, smallish cylinder heads. J.Rob
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 02:31 PM

511, 4.25" stroke, limit the build of an RB to ~650-670hp and for a low deck you can safely go to ~720 with a low hard block fill. Girdles help stabilize the Cradle portion of the block and I know guys are making well over 800HP with their stock block race strokers but I won't comment on that which I don't have particular experience building, (but I've "autopsied" a few.)

Cam choice and head flow are critical to an optimized stroker combo, for optimum reliability don't get hung-up on max HP but you can focus on the broadest flattest torque curve you can build while still hitting reasonably high HP targets. You should decide whether you're going with a standard port motor or a max wedge, the ideal "recipie" will be quite a bit different.

Guys that run into bottom end cap walk issues on stock blocks are seeing this because they are effectively trying to turn a moderate RPM torque motor into a peak RPM HP motor; and the comparatively thin walled stock block (intended to a max of maybe 500 lb/ft of torque) will be pushed beyond its limits. And remember the stresses induced by even moderate or momentary detonation WILL push the block well beyond it's capacity. Reliability is further compromised the higher you raise the peak torque RPM. Race blocks have thicker bores and webs and this addresses/counteracts the higher RPM PEAKS this helps high RPM motors considerably because generally (4 cycle engine dynamics 101) once you pass through the peak torque RPM the wall friction of the rings and piston speed primarily starts to act like a brake on the crankshaft, just like a shoe on a drum. The higher the peak torque RPM the more severe these loads will be. I try build the shortblock for overall broad torque and let the heads do the "horsepower work" above the torque peak.

I believe that a 470 3.90 stroke low deck will have the most HP/cube potential in terms of efficiency, but in terms of bang for the buck the 511 is the way to go, ~10% more cubes inthe same package.
Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 02:51 PM

Just wondering what would be the best cylinder head package for the stock/production block??

I'm thinking OOTB Indy EZ's for the money and if an aftermarket block ever mysteriously shows up in garage they can be opened up to accomodate?
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 02:52 PM

I have run a 4.15 x 4.375 499, went 9.30s at 3000 lbs with unported 440-1 heads.
If I had to do another low deck stock block again it would have the following; 512 cubes. The lightest rotating assembly I could cook up. along with aluminum main caps and a center counter weighted crank. The center weights spread the stress out where it belongs, to all the bearing journals more evenly.
Fill the block to start. Find the shortest lightest piston that will fit with an off the shelf aluminum rod.
Make darned sure my tuneup is conservative to start. I don't want any possibility of detonation.
Posted By: belvedere383

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 03:10 PM

I run a 383 based 496, 4.25 stroke, 4.31 bore. It makes in the neighborhood of 710 crank horsepower. It has Indy EZ heads that have been hand ported and a comp .660 [Email]272@.050[/Email] solid roller. Motor makes usaeable power till about 7200 I shift it at about 7000. In a full weight 65 Belvedere with a 4speed it goes 11.0 at about 129 and is still street driven.

The bottom end is a little more beefed up with Pro Gram main caps, and a girdle from chenoworth I beleive.
Posted By: earthmover

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 03:17 PM

gregsdart please explain this center counter weight crank to me ..i have a idea of what your saying just never really heard of that..mike

also the big thing is i have -1 heads unported with 2.25 valve with a nice size cam 280@50 and 731 with the rockers 1.6..

plan to hard block to bottom of water pump holes and cross bolt and girdle
Posted By: dragram440

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 03:27 PM

mine is a 69 440-499 block with a eagle crank eagle H beam rods and srp flat top pistons compression is 12.5-1 with stage VI heads hand ported and M1 single plane matched to the heads, doug herbert solid roller 262-265 @ 50 and 620 lift, 1050 dominator 2" hooker super comps. It seems to run real good if I was doing it again I would go with pump gas. The car weighs 3740 with me in it and runs 10.60's with no tuning. As of long jevity not sure as it has low hours on it still. I have the 440 source steel main caps and arp studs.
Posted By: savoyracer

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 03:48 PM

Been there, Done that.. .Going through this very same issue right now..mine is a 4.35 bore, 4.375 stroke, 520" stock block 440, 12.4 compression ratio, indy -1 heads from Modern. 3200 lb car runs 9.80 at 138 mph, dynoed at 760hp The block was hard blocked and girdled, aluminum Main Caps. had a thrust bearing issue, pulled it apart, and the block is BROKEN!. where it is broke, the hard block and girdle did not help. I am going to build another one, this time I will NOT waste my money on the hard block and girdle. I talked to Cab Burge about this issue, and you might PM him, and get some good info first hand. As stated above, be very conservative on your tune, Detonation is the big killer, and the other helpful advice I recieved is to lower the compression to around 11 or 11.5 to 1. keep us posted, I am very interested in what you finally decide to do, and how it turned out for you.
Posted By: supercomp

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 04:47 PM

499 low deck with BCR caps and girdle 4.375 x 4.150 hardblock. B1 heads. 280-283. @ .050 .772 lift. Spun bearing and broke rod at 600 passes. Dynoed 690 tq 845 hp. ET 7.89 MPH 173 WT 1940.
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 05:23 PM

I don't think it's compression alone but it is the combination of compression and (as stated above) RPM...putting the torque peak too high in the RPM band. where compression kills ANY motor is when you detonate...and the more dynamic compression you have (remember RPM's role here) the less cushion you have...and if you're already well past the design limits...well, you don't need to have a PhD to figure out what happens next....something breaks...and if it don't break it fractures. And I can't tell you how many lucky [Email]b@stards[/Email] found cracked caps or webs on a routine "freshen up" that were time-bombs just waiting to blow.

I think you can run high compression and a more conservative cam and RPM cieling and be reliable, I've said it a hundred times that strokers ET on torque so make the most use of it through the middle, don't overcam it (which again put the torque peak too high) = higher than the bores/cradles can cope with on the high RPM power curve. Letting the VE drop off and lowering the peak power reduces the stresses the crank can induce into the block....period.

Build the target power (as noted above) as early (fewest RPM that get's there) as you can, ET on torque, don't chase that last MPH...just like the (as any old timer can tell you) the old wedge motor days. Back then we couldn't throw enough head on the blocks to break them, but these days (with several available heads capable of 700+hp) we can....but just because you can, doesn't mean you should

99% of you bracket race, maybe I'm over conservative but if I can go 9.81's turning only 6800 RPM RELIABLY, i can learn to have as much long-lasting fun as going 9.69 turning 7400, I can't tell you how many stroker guys say they short shifted by accident and the car only ET'ed a 10'th slower....again, you're ET'ing on torque!

With strokers any time you increase the stroke you are shortening the "ideal" or "natural" RPM band between peak torque and Peak Power, spin it up much higher than that and you're not only adding a lotmore stress, you're also getting diminishing returns relative to the same size engine with a bigger bore shorter stroke combo (that produces less piston speed = wall friction).

I will buy a low deck 4.500" bore Iron block as soon as World or Koleno wake up and give us one, but even then I'll limit the stroke to 4.25-4.30.
Posted By: 70blackfish

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 05:30 PM

WIZE...I love reading your replies, such good info. you should do tech articles in magazines.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 07:02 PM

Quote:

I don't think it's compression alone but it is the combination of compression and (as stated above) RPM...putting the torque peak too high in the RPM band. where compression kills ANY motor is when you detonate...and the more dynamic compression you have (remember RPM's role here) the less cushion you have...and if you're already well past the design limits...well, you don't need to have a PhD to figure out what happens next....something breaks...and if it don't break it fractures. And I can't tell you how many lucky [Email]b@stards[/Email] found cracked caps or webs on a routine "freshen up" that were time-bombs just waiting to blow.

I think you can run high compression and a more conservative cam and RPM cieling and be reliable, I've said it a hundred times that strokers ET on torque so make the most use of it through the middle, don't overcam it (which again put the torque peak too high) = higher than the bores/cradles can cope with on the high RPM power curve. Letting the VE drop off and lowering the peak power reduces the stresses the crank can induce into the block....period.

Build the target power (as noted above) as early (fewest RPM that get's there) as you can, ET on torque, don't chase that last MPH...just like the (as any old timer can tell you) the old wedge motor days. Back then we couldn't throw enough head on the blocks to break them, but these days (with several available heads capable of 700+hp) we can....but just because you can, doesn't mean you should

99% of you bracket race, maybe I'm over conservative but if I can go 9.81's turning only 6800 RPM RELIABLY, i can learn to have as much long-lasting fun as going 6.69 turning 7400, I can't tell you how many stroker guys say they short shifted by accident and the car only ET'ed a 10'th slower....again, you're ET'ing on torque!

With strokers any time you increase the stroke you are shortening the "ideal" or "natural" RPM band between peak torque and Peak Power, spin it up much higher than that and you're not only adding a lotmore stress, you're also getting diminishing returns relative to the same size engine with a bigger bore shorter stroke combo (that produces less piston speed = wall friction).

I will buy a low deck 4.500" bore Iron block as soon as World or Koleno wake up and give us one, but even then I'll limit the stroke to 4.25-4.30.

Lower the compression to less than 12.0 on race gas and or run E85 or alcholol My 518 C.I low deck stroker with 10.78 to 1 comp. ratio makes the exact same power(775 HP at 6500 RPM) on Oregon pump gas as my 527 C.I 12.8 to 1 comp. ratio motor does on 110 octane race gas
Posted By: dragram440

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/04/11 10:40 PM

So you think turning a stock block stroker to 6500 and under you have alot better chance of survival? Even with 12.5-1 compression? I want mine to live as long as possible.I also have a 3/8 oil pick up so I have been trying not to over rev it. How high is to high?
Posted By: FastmOp

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like t - 03/05/11 01:08 AM

My new combo only has 9 runs on it. But the tracks open tomarrow . It's a 541ci (4.375 bore X 4.5 stroke) in a 77 440 block. I guess you can say I don't agree with the hype around here . It's just a 345CnC -1 headed, ultradyne .680/.280. Bla bla bla.

These experts would hate for me to tell you it's mostly 440source stuff with stock caps lmao

it does have GRP rods though
Posted By: @#$%&*!

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like t - 03/05/11 02:16 AM

Where's the Time Bomb emoticon?
How about some weight and ET's? You might be fine, some of those blocks are quite stout but stock caps? You'll post some pictures when it comes apart won't you?
FWIW, I have a '76 block that will take a lot of bore if I wanted to and have been thinking about a similar displacement with a shorter stroke. I'd stop well short of 700 HP though.

Quote:

My new combo only has 9 runs on it. But the tracks open tomarrow . It's a 541ci (4.375 bore X 4.5 stroke) in a 77 440 block. I guess you can say I don't agree with the hype around here . It's just a 345CnC -1 headed, ultradyne .680/.280. Bla bla bla.

These experts would hate for me to tell you it's mostly 440source stuff with stock caps lmao

it does have GRP rods though

Posted By: FastmOp

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like t - 03/05/11 03:12 AM

Quote:

Where's the Time Bomb emoticon?


look under your hood

I built my 500ci 69 440 block stroker in 2002. I pulled it last summer cause it was showing an oil pressure drop and sounded a little off. It was an intake rocker ha ha ha. It ran 6.20's to 6.teens. It's now in my Avenger waiting to be ran again. When you have 400 runs on a motor that makes any kind of steam that YOU built then I might care what you think.

The new combo went in the teens in three passes and went 6.16 it's last pass. That's 112mph in the 1/8. I know it's got more in it as soon as I get these headers I'm building for it done. The hooker fenderwells are holding it back.

The guy wants to know what can be built with a stock block. That's what I told him. You seem to think since you can't do it nobody can. Well that's why I built it like this ha ha ha.

Yes I'll post pics when it goes. Just like I posted a breakdown of it in the other post. It's racing, stuff happens.

You don't even want to know what I have in mind for the 500ci motor
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/05/11 03:29 AM

Quote:

So you think turning a stock block stroker to 6500 and under you have alot better chance of survival? Even with 12.5-1 compression? I want mine to live as long as possible.I also have a 3/8 oil pick up so I have been trying not to over rev it. How high is to high?

I shift my pump gas 518 C.I. 400 block stroker motor at or slightly above 7000 RPM, the 440 block stroker motor probally at or under 6500 RPM As far as helping make the motor live I think E85 or pure alcholol will help prevent detonation, not just the shift RPMs If your going to use race gas I would shoot for 12.0 to 1 comp. ratio or lower The last 440 block I saw that had cracked the main webs had 14.7 to 1 comp. ratio I have seen B and RB motors break the stock main caps on race gas but not on alcholol or E85, yet I treid buying some of the old Mopar brand ductile iron main cap kits last week, no luck on either the B or RB motor kits, that leaves two options on replacing the stock main caps, steel or aluminum I like steel better than aluminum
Posted By: earthmover

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like t - 03/05/11 03:31 AM

nice builds here guys and fastmop have a great time at the track tomm. and keep us posted on the et's please mike
Posted By: FastmOp

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like t - 03/05/11 03:43 AM

There calling for rain . Plus I'm still building headers. Hope next weekend is warm and dry. But if it is I'll prolly take my SRT challenger. I really want a 7 sec timeslip out of it. Been 8.24 but I been messin with it . The valiant will be out by the end of march though.

Earthmover with the parts you already have your going to have a stout combo. Stick something together and beat on it.

Posted By: earthmover

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like t - 03/05/11 03:56 AM

i hope to soon ..just been doing a little research on things thought i could have started the build sooner but work is kinda rough but i do want to race this year lol..thanks mike

oh by the way i love the car...
Posted By: Eric

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like t - 03/05/11 04:17 AM

512....lowdeck...all 440 Source stuff assembled by BGR...un-ported SR's...850 Ray Murray ...650 Comp...Indy intake...UCC 8" with 1.76 glide....4.56 Dana....car weighs 2300# race weight. Should be good for high 8's in good air.. With ported heads and a Dominator it would really fly...
Posted By: TC67CUDA

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like t - 03/05/11 04:28 AM

My combo:
77 440 RV block bored .060, 440 Source 4.15 crank and rods, Ross flat tops 12 to 1 compression,Indy SR Max wedge CNC ported, valve job by Scott Brown, Scott Brown solid flat tappet cam 272/280 @ .050 664/640 lift 1.6 rockers, Indy 440-2 ported intake, Pro Systems 1000 cfm 4150 carb, timing @ 38 degrees, 67 Barracuda back half ladder, 4.56 gears ,5100 stall Ultimate Converter, weight with me around 3400 lbs, shift at 6200, traps at 6500, Best so far 10.14 @ 135 Chassis Dyno @ 542 rwhp.





Posted By: 440Jim

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like t - 03/05/11 04:29 AM

I like the 4.250" stroke crank.
With a 4.375" bore, that is 511 CID.

Works great, I love it.
Posted By: Ari440

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like t - 03/05/11 04:36 AM

Quote:

My new combo only has 9 runs on it. But the tracks open tomarrow . It's a 541ci (4.375 bore X 4.5 stroke) in a 77 440 block. I guess you can say I don't agree with the hype around here . It's just a 345CnC -1 headed, ultradyne .680/.280. Bla bla bla.

These experts would hate for me to tell you it's mostly 440source stuff with stock caps lmao

it does have GRP rods though





did you need to grind alot to fit the 4.50 stroke crank with grp rods

what is the rod ratio and compression heigth on the piston

did you mill the deck
Posted By: dragram440

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/05/11 01:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So you think turning a stock block stroker to 6500 and under you have alot better chance of survival? Even with 12.5-1 compression? I want mine to live as long as possible.I also have a 3/8 oil pick up so I have been trying not to over rev it. How high is to high?

I shift my pump gas 518 C.I. 400 block stroker motor at or slightly above 7000 RPM, the 440 block stroker motor probally at or under 6500 RPM As far as helping make the motor live I think E85 or pure alcholol will help prevent detonation, not just the shift RPMs If your going to use race gas I would shoot for 12.0 to 1 comp. ratio or lower The last 440 block I saw that had cracked the main webs had 14.7 to 1 comp. ratio I have seen B and RB motors break the stock main caps on race gas but not on alcholol or E85, yet I treid buying some of the old Mopar brand ductile iron main cap kits last week, no luck on either the B or RB motor kits, that leaves two options on replacing the stock main caps, steel or aluminum I like steel better than aluminum


I have 440 source billet steel main caps and ARP studs!
Posted By: ChrgrCuda

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like t - 03/05/11 02:17 PM

Quote:

I like the 4.250" stroke crank.
With a 4.375" bore, that is 511 CID.

Works great, I love it.


That's what I have. I thought it was 505, but your probably right. Love your Dart.
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/05/11 02:31 PM

Quote:

gregsdart please explain this center counter weight crank to me ..i have a idea of what your saying just never really heard of that..mike

also the big thing is i have -1 heads unported with 2.25 valve with a nice size cam [Email]280@50[/Email] and 731 with the rockers 1.6..

plan to hard block to bottom of water pump holes and cross bolt and girdle


The closer you have a counter weight to each pair of rods, the less stress goes through both the crank and block to offset the forces generated by the piston and rods going up and down. A crank with weights out at the ends only will smooth out vibrations, but the forces are not in line with each other. Fuelers use them, the Ford mod motors use them, to name two.
Most believe that the upper limit for Hp in a well done low deck is in the 800 hp area. Anything you can do to even out things and reduce reciprocating weight is going to help a lot.
The cam sounds like it will make power up to about 6800 rpm. I shifted my deal at 6800 with a 283/290 @ .050 cam with .717 lift.
Posted By: earthmover

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/05/11 03:35 PM

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/05/11 04:18 PM

There was a guy on a few weeks ago that built a bracket stroker that had a really conservative cam in it, but it was going in a light car and it was going to be both quick and consistent, it was an interesting read and to me what he was doing made perfct sense and it goes back to my early day of bracket racing (when i had time and resources to go every week-end). The guys that always went to the money rounds week after week always seemed to have very basic combos (like 468 chevies and under carbed 340's) that were just dead-nuts reliable and eerily consistent; to a man each one of them said to go rounds you want to build the motor to about 90% of it's potential, keep the revs down and focus on the chassis tuning and cutting lights, don't chase that last .01 of et, I always thought it was really good advice. Keep it in the sweet spot where it's consistent, reliable and easy on parts.

I always applied that in a practical sense that once you get past that 90-ish percent level, the incremental gains are smaller and also A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE, plus you supersize it by pushing your whole investment harder, for some that's the dream and ambition and that's great and more power to them, but sometimes it's just as easy to cut the car weight down and go just as fast while still keeping the motor (usually the biggest $$$ investment) on the safe side of the redline.

The original question was "how do you like to build them?", which means it's anyone who chimes in personal opinion, so to my mind there's really no 'wrong answers'...I'm getting a little (well really A LOT) tired of all the that nearly every 2+ page thread degenerates to, about to the point where I might need to take a break, maybe just 'lurk' a while to see which direction this website / forum wants to go
Posted By: earthmover

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/05/11 04:34 PM

its alot of that streetwize just have to look over it or as you said take a little break...you get guys that will open post with nothing good to say or with the intent to piss on others thoughts or what others have done...anyway i think you all the others for the great amount of help and hope that you and others will keep the good tech/info and help going for guys like myself that has not been there dont that yet....so take the weekend off and enjoy ...come back with a open mind i know how it goes i have done it myself lol mike
Posted By: Twostick

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/05/11 05:16 PM

Detonation=death. It always seems that turbo mopars can run 800+ hp on a stock block with zero issues but N/A they get pounded to death. I'm no expert and I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn Express in ages, but I think this is because a turbo motor only runs 20 odd deg of timing for one and they don't as a rule spin the wee out of it for two. My money is on the timing.

I have a friend that does some pretty cool R+D for the Big 3 and he had pressure transducers installed in the combustion chamber of an EFI'd Brand X engine. You would be astounded at how much detonation goes on that you can't "hear" but with this technology you can "see" it as pressure spikes. With the engine on the dyno, you could add or subtract timing on the fly and it would start to show up several degrees retarded from "stock". It was considered acceptable in a stock engine because it didn't adversely affect reliability but now with increased emissions restrictions, any uncontrolled combustion is a problem.

From a performance standpoint, when you add more displacement along with compression that pressure spike increases exponentially. You still don't hear it and it isn't enough to show up on your plugs either but it is hammering your bottom end to death just the same.

Kevin
Posted By: earthmover

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/06/11 09:12 AM

Posted By: ChrgrCuda

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/06/11 03:48 PM

Quote:

There was a guy on a few weeks ago that built a bracket stroker that had a really conservative cam in it, but it was going in a light car and it was going to be both quick and consistent, it was an interesting read and to me what he was doing made perfct sense and it goes back to my early day of bracket racing (when i had time and resources to go every week-end). The guys that always went to the money rounds week after week always seemed to have very basic combos (like 468 chevies and under carbed 340's) that were just dead-nuts reliable and eerily consistent; to a man each one of them said to go rounds you want to build the motor to about 90% of it's potential, keep the revs down and focus on the chassis tuning and cutting lights, don't chase that last .01 of et, I always thought it was really good advice. Keep it in the sweet spot where it's consistent, reliable and easy on parts.

I always applied that in a practical sense that once you get past that 90-ish percent level, the incremental gains are smaller and also A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE, plus you supersize it by pushing your whole investment harder, for some that's the dream and ambition and that's great and more power to them, but sometimes it's just as easy to cut the car weight down and go just as fast while still keeping the motor (usually the biggest $$$ investment) on the safe side of the redline.

The original question was "how do you like to build them?", which means it's anyone who chimes in personal opinion, so to my mind there's really no 'wrong answers'...I'm getting a little (well really A LOT) tired of all the that nearly every 2+ page thread degenerates to, about to the point where I might need to take a break, maybe just 'lurk' a while to see which direction this website / forum wants to go


I sure would hate for that to happen Wize. I truly look forward to your posts and have based my build on your advice. For those of us that are less experienced, namely me, I hope you stick around and continue to provide your input.
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/06/11 04:24 PM

My first big block build is still residing between my fender wells. Welded 4.15 crank, LY rods, stock caps, stock 69 block no fill, Ross flat tops, ARP main studs, MP rod bolts. Pieced the engine together in the early 90's. Have freshened it and changed heads, but still has the same lower end. Cam was the fan favorite mechanical Ultradyne NF-69 .640 lift. It's always been best with a shift light setting of 5600-5800 rpm. Have shifted higher but didn't change a thing. Ran 4.56 gears, but after we installed a dominator (discovered our top end poor time issues...choking) our trap rpms went up to near 7k, so we dropped down to 4.10's and picked up + brought the rpm down to a more manageable 6200. If/when it fails I'll build another. Best et to date is a 10.04 at 138 in my Mirada.

Posted By: gregsdart

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/06/11 04:24 PM

I like Streetwise comments on 90 percent. If you are going to bracket race, go after it with a vengeance. Build to run hundreds of runs between rebuilds. If you like to chase ET, well, its' gonna cost ya! The cam and heads you have are a good bracket motor start, provided the lobe profiles on the cam are moderate. Be sure to pick your valve train parts very carefully for the intended use.
Posted By: earthmover

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/06/11 06:04 PM

this is a good info from you guys and i do thank you all. ..as far as the valve train i have most of the parts for the build ..

parts list

-1 heads with 2.25 valve (should go 350)
t&d 1.6 rockers
440-2 single plan intake with 2" spacer for 4500 carb
howards 7.125 alum. rods (mopar bearing)
lunati cam 280 @ 50 731 lift with 1.6 rockers
440 block have not done anything to it as of yet being collecting info...
also have pushrods that came with the heads off of a 440 build

the car this motor will be in is my 70 duster it will have ladder bars,coil overs, and the frontend will be changed over to coild overs and rack,will be useing fiber glass on the hood,bumpers,and maybe the doors,the car is mini tubbed now and have had a 29/10.5w on it before on a 10" rim so i would like tostay around that size tire out back,headers we are going to try and build if we dont find a good set for a good price lol..car will be foot no trans brake


so with this combo of parts you guys tell me what you would build..
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/06/11 10:18 PM

The 451 low deck was deadly consistent and very durable. I think if I had replaced valve springs on it after ten years it may still be running?
It was a pump gas 11:1 compression build with a mild solid roller 251/251 @50, 0.620"/6.20" cam and brodix B1 B/S heads. I would estimate the engine may have made close to 580 HP at the crank? Chassis Dyno was only 452 HP at the rear tires?
Bottom end was just ARP studs and 1/2" pickup with larger oil pan.
4,150# '71 Charger with near stock suspension (bad 60' times), 3,500 stall 10" converter (launched at 1200-1500 RPM, any more the sires would smoke off the line), 3.91 gear, and 10x27" MT street ET radials. At Bandimere, 12.50@110 (consistent) usually only varied 0.02 either way? Consistency may have been because I had no air scoop, so the air was more consistent temp coming through the radiator? Took the car to MATS, and ran 11.8's @ 115 off the trailer with no tuning changes.

I hope the new 500" 4.15" stroke, low deck works as well, but with 100+ more HP. 557 rear wheel HP on the chassis dyno. I went with the BCR caps and girdle on this engine. max wedge victor heads, and flat tops give me 12.4:1 compression.
This engine uses an agressive solid roller cam (Comp HXL Lobes), 264/264 @ 0.050", 0.714"/0.714" lift. Indy 400 single plane for my old 4150 style Holley 1,000 cfm carb. I'm sure there is more in the engine if I used a larger cam, and intake/carb, but it looks like my shift points will be close to 7,000 RPM as it stands.
Right now this is more engine than my car is set-up for. I'm looking at getting a roll bar, dana60 spooled axle, and a new driveshaft.
Posted By: earthmover

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/07/11 04:05 AM

nice build there 451mopar..what do you think the new motor will run and whats your weight??? mike
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/07/11 07:21 AM

Quote:

nice build there 451mopar..what do you think the new motor will run and whats your weight??? mike


Same '71 Charger as before, 4,150 pounds with me and 1/2 tank of fuel. Traction and the old limited slip diff will be a problem. When I was in Las Vegas, the limited slip diff was making alot of poping sounds when I launched the car.
I plan to have it out for King Street on May 1st.
The extra 100+ HP should put me right around 11.50, which is all the car is teched for because I don't have a roll bar.
Posted By: earthmover

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/08/11 04:20 AM

whats the thoughts on adding cross bolt main??? i saw the post that josh had a few days ago where they had put them in...i have a set now..mike
Posted By: FastmOp

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like t - 03/08/11 04:09 PM

I had trouble finding anyone that would do it. And when I finally did find someone that said he would, he backed out at the last min. and I got fed up with waiting so I had another guy line hone my stock junk.

I will say I would have rather went with the cross bolts but after running the 4.150 crank for eight years with no issues I guess they can survive
Posted By: 74-440Charger

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like t - 03/08/11 06:39 PM

Interested in stroking my stock bottom end 73 RB block too, how high have you been spinning yours? Any longevity secrets you'd like to share?
Posted By: earthmover

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like t - 03/08/11 07:27 PM

whats all involved in putting them in??? i know you have to mach/linehone,but does it req. some special machine to do it??? im new to big block so this ?? may sound crazy so forgive me for it lol..may have to go with some alum. or steel mains but i have the cross bolt money saved ...unless it cost so much to do it..mike
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/08/11 07:52 PM

Quote:

whats the thoughts on adding cross bolt main??? i saw the post that josh had a few days ago where they had put them in...i have a set now..mike

I'll give you my  on using a cross bolt main in a non crossbolt block The reasons being that you have to drill through the main webs to make the holes for the cross bolts which ends up weaking the block, NOT GOOD If you look at the other blocks(426 hemi and Ford 427 FE blocks) that use cross bolt mains instead of the conventional additional two bolts into the main webs you will see that the crossbolt blocks have bosses cast into the block for stengthening that are machined to accept the crossbolt main caps with a interference fit to help disapate vibrations and hold that main cap in place. The other thing I keep in mind when looking a patching a problem with blocks is where is the block failing, in the RB motors, 440, 426W and 413 blocks they crack above the mains into the bottoms of the cylinders, not in the webbing going to the oil pan rails The webbing cast into the blocks to the oil pan rails are stiffeners design to add strength to the main web, drilling a hole through them will take away materails which will only create stresss risers and weaken the main webs Don't do it
Posted By: earthmover

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/08/11 08:13 PM

thanks cab
Posted By: earthmover

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/08/11 08:16 PM

this is a good info from you guys and i do thank you all. ..as far as the valve train i have most of the parts for the build ..

parts list

-1 heads with 2.25 valve (should go 350)
t&d 1.6 rockers
440-2 single plan intake with 2" spacer for 4500 carb
howards 7.125 alum. rods (mopar bearing)
lunati cam 280 @ 50 731 lift with 1.6 rockers
440 block have not done anything to it as of yet being collecting info...
also have pushrods that came with the heads off of a 440 build

the car this motor will be in is my 70 duster it will have ladder bars,coil overs, and the frontend will be changed over to coild overs and rack,will be useing fiber glass on the hood,bumpers,and maybe the doors,the car is mini tubbed now and have had a 29/10.5w on it before on a 10" rim so i would like tostay around that size tire out back,headers we are going to try and build if we dont find a good set for a good price lol..car will be foot no trans brake


so with this combo of parts you guys tell me what you would build..

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/08/11 08:35 PM

ARP main and head studs, five two bolt steel main caps, bore and hone the block with a torque plate, assemble with care and time and degree the camshaft
Posted By: Diablo

Re: stock block stroker big block how big do you like them - 03/08/11 08:39 PM

Quote:

this is a good info from you guys and i do thank you all. ..as far as the valve train i have most of the parts for the build ..

parts list

-1 heads with 2.25 valve (should go 350)
t&d 1.6 rockers
440-2 single plan intake with 2" spacer for 4500 carb
howards 7.125 alum. rods (mopar bearing)
lunati cam 280 @ 50 731 lift with 1.6 rockers
440 block have not done anything to it as of yet being collecting info...
also have pushrods that came with the heads off of a 440 build

the car this motor will be in is my 70 duster it will have ladder bars,coil overs, and the frontend will be changed over to coild overs and rack,will be useing fiber glass on the hood,bumpers,and maybe the doors,the car is mini tubbed now and have had a 29/10.5w on it before on a 10" rim so i would like tostay around that size tire out back,headers we are going to try and build if we dont find a good set for a good price lol..car will be foot no trans brake


so with this combo of parts you guys tell me what you would build..





From what you have listed you kind of have close to what my 496ci was in the pulling truck a few years ago. I had the 2.25 440-1's but were 380flow, and the cam was 760ish. Carb was a 1150 Dom. Comp was up around 14.5/1. Alum main ,J/E pistons BME alum rods, Bryant crank. Rpm's were between 7000-7500.

When I built this engine we were aiming for 800hp.

First year we ran it we cracked a cylinder right at the bottom.

Didn't have the $$$ to buy a better block so we filled a stock block and added a Girdle. Also that year we added a Vacuum pump and a few other little extra's and the engine ended up being around 840ish hp.

The engine lasted 3 hard pulling seasons with no problems with the block. (went to the TS engine after that) But i knew i was running a stock block and it could go BOOM any time. If done right i believe they can last just fine but realize they wont last forever.
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