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Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil

Posted By: Darryls-Demon

Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 04:06 AM

A friend told me about this on Crowers web site in there Q@A section, under support.
Crower does Not recommend using synthetic oil for any application, they recommends a non detergent-race only petroleum based 30wt with a ZPP plus additive.
I do not remember a company like Crower saying not to use synthetic oil.
Posted By: hvyweight

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 05:19 AM

this should be good!
Posted By: Labratt

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 06:25 AM

Posted By: The Shadow

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 02:55 PM

I had the same sort of conversation with Richard Iskidarian about scuffing on the body of my red zones.
Posted By: BobR

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 02:58 PM

There was a time that in the Mopar Bible they recommended that synthetic not be used. We don't use it in our race car.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 03:22 PM

Crower and Iski need to turn the page.
Posted By: moderncylinder

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 03:34 PM

they say it doesnt "cling" to the parts as well as conventional oil,, it runs off therefore not lubricating as well

mark williams tells you not to run synthetic gear lube either
Posted By: dartman366

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 03:50 PM

I ran synthetic in my 8.75 a several of years ago, and did not like the scuffed look on the teeth, switched back to dino oil and problem went away.
Posted By: dennismopar73

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 04:15 PM

yeah i would never run the stuff

it wear youre stuff out,,
rot youre teeth,
make you have bad breath
give you gas,,
mm nope wont run it
Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 04:15 PM

I've used nothing but synthetics for well over 10 years now without a problem and my engine has a flat tappet cam in it. I can tell the difference in just the way the engine idles from synthetic to dino oil of the same viscosity. I use dino oil to clean up my engine after sitting for extended periods like a year or more and then change to synthetic. It's an instant 200 rpm increase.

From what I've heard and read on the interweb synthetic clings better than dino oil.
Posted By: camastomcat

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 05:18 PM

Quote:

I've used nothing but synthetics for well over 10 years now without a problem and my engine has a flat tappet cam in it. I can tell the difference in just the way the engine idles from synthetic to dino oil of the same viscosity. I use dino oil to clean up my engine after sitting for extended periods like a year or more and then change to synthetic. It's an instant 200 rpm increase.

From what I've heard and read on the interweb synthetic clings better than dino oil.




I've been running it for 15 years. The only time I run conventional oil is for break in. I did just switch to Brad Penn semi syn. lately.
My bearings have always looked good when the motor came apart for rebuild unless there was another problem.
Posted By: Locomotion

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 05:59 PM

Quote:

I've used nothing but synthetics for well over 10 years now without a problem and my engine has a flat tappet cam in it. I can tell the difference in just the way the engine idles from synthetic to dino oil of the same viscosity. I use dino oil to clean up my engine after sitting for extended periods like a year or more and then change to synthetic. It's an instant 200 rpm increase.

From what I've heard and read on the interweb synthetic clings better than dino oil.






First couple of times I thought something was wrong with the carb or inside the engine.....till I put the synthetic in after break-in. My engine, trans and differential builders have had only compliments on how well my stuff wears with the Amsoil synthetics I've been using.

Amsoil source and info
Posted By: Boosted

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 06:05 PM

Quote:

Crower and Iski need to turn the page.




Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 06:27 PM

As far as synthetic engine oil clinging to parts when it sits very long(week or more) Mobil oil got sued 15 or 20 yrs. ago over the thier Mobil 1 synthetic aircraft oils causing cams to go bad in Contintental air cooled and liquid cooled aircraft engines. Mobil CO. quit making and selling that oil and payed many aircraft owners millions of dollars for new motors One of the other problems with that oil( I used it for many years and dind't have any cam problems in my Lycoming motor, my cam was located in a different location than in Contintentals ) is that Mobil 1 AV oil wouldn't keep dirt particles in suspension long enough so the oil filter could clean it out, that oil would leave and make nasty sludge deposits in the motor That airplane had ran Phillips brand aviation brand multi viscosity(SP?) oil in it for several hundred hours before I bought it, I switched it to Mobil one on the first oil change and ran it for 6 or 7 yrs, I did have one valve cover off when I first bought it and it was spotless inside, not so 6 yrs later I changed oil and filter every 50 hours or sooner I switched to Shell multi viscoty avaition oil and started running Marvel mystery oil in it to clean the sludge out, that worked eventually All multi weight oils have synthetic polymers in them to make the oil change viscoty
Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 06:30 PM

Just like the petroleum, all synthetics are not the same.
Posted By: sturmenater

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 07:15 PM

conventional im to cheap to change synthetic after every weekend of racing
Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 07:58 PM

Quote:

conventional im to cheap to change synthetic after every weekend of racing




You'll probably crap when I tell you I run mine all season without changing the oil and filter.
Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/24/11 09:32 PM

fascinating. i've used both synthetic and conventional with excellent results either way. mosier specified conventional in my mosier 60, but they couldn't tell me why.
Posted By: Darryls-Demon

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 02:44 AM

The 440 in my Challenger lost a 100 RPMs when changing to a petroleum based oil of the same weight.
I cannot rap my head around that a full synthetic oil is harmful to the life of my motor.
Posted By: notchbackcuda

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 03:51 AM

Quote:

fascinating. i've used both synthetic and conventional with excellent results either way. mosier specified conventional in my mosier 60, but they couldn't tell me why.





My Strange S60 had a sticker on it warning against synthetic lube.

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Posted By: dwayne welder

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 04:17 AM

Check this site out!!!! www.BOBISTHEOILGUY.COM LOTS OF GOOD IMFO!!!!!! Go under aviation section, good imfo!!!!!
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 08:34 AM

I beleive a lot of the high dollar imports, Lexus, BMW, Jaguars, Mercedes Benz as well as some others come from the factory with pure sybthetic oils in the engines. I think that maybe some American cars do also, maybe not I know a lot of NHRA class racers swore that there cars pick up ET and MPH when they switch to multi viscoty synthetic oils
Posted By: 572B1

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 10:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

fascinating. i've used both synthetic and conventional with excellent results either way. mosier specified conventional in my mosier 60, but they couldn't tell me why.





My Strange S60 had a sticker on it warning against synthetic lube.




My strange 60 came with 3 bottles of this.

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Posted By: fasthawk6

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 10:36 AM

Quote:

I beleive a lot of the high dollar imports, Lexus, BMW, Jaguars, Mercedes Benz as well as some others come from the factory with pure sybthetic oils in the engines. I think that maybe some American cars do also, maybe not I know a lot of NHRA class racers swore that there cars pick up ET and MPH when they switch to
multi viscoty synthetic oils

The new vettes and mine 2000 Transam firehawk and i even think ford did with thier 03-04 corbas. My 97 honda cbr900 picked up a tenth going to mobil 1 15-50 . also i forgot my wifes 06 gto come from the factory using mobil 1 syn

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Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 11:24 AM

We use nothing but synthetic in all our engines.Most oils,synthetic and non-synthetic come from a small group of less than a half dozen refineries.Most all oils from most sources are similar except oil with a heavy parafin base such as Pennsyvania base oil.Then here's where it takes a turn,different brand names add their "snake oil and dye additives".These additives come from another source of less than a half dozen suppliers.The final blending is done by the brand name oil companys and marketed.When we did construction work at Heinz Food here in Pittsburgh,we we shocked to see them how many different soup and condiments for different name brands we actually made at the Heinz facility,same for oil refineries.Also we work around fuel depot at the river and seen many different brand fuel companys filling their tankers from the same tank farms and barges.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 02:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I beleive a lot of the high dollar imports, Lexus, BMW, Jaguars, Mercedes Benz as well as some others come from the factory with pure sybthetic oils in the engines. I think that maybe some American cars do also, maybe not I know a lot of NHRA class racers swore that there cars pick up ET and MPH when they switch to
multi viscoty synthetic oils

The new vettes and mine 2000 Transam firehawk and i even think ford did with thier 03-04 corbas. My 97 honda cbr900 picked up a tenth going to mobil 1 15-50 . also i forgot my wifes 06 gto come from the factory using mobil 1 syn


You can add the Crossfire to that list. My 04 X-fire takes Mobile 1 synthetic from the factory - 7500 mile oil change interval.
Posted By: BobR

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 02:55 PM

Quote:

I ran synthetic in my 8.75 a several of years ago, and did not like the scuffed look on the teeth, switched back to dino oil and problem went away.




Exact same thing with us. Now we use Dewco lube which isn't full synthetic.
Posted By: moderncylinder

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 03:00 PM

i use dewco,,, but probably bought the sales pitch from don,, plus maskin used it in their pro stock car..

i ran a hemi on teuton's dyno about 6 or so years ago,, i was given a bunch of mobil 1 syn oil,, like you buy at the parts store,, in the gray bottle,,, i ran the motor with 10-30 penzoil basic oil,, switched to mobil 1 and lost about 5avg horsepower. i thought mobil one was crap but then was told you need the red bottle,, thats the racing oil,, it has zinc in it... the gray bottles have almost no zinc,, ill never run mobil one in anything i own again,, its red line, valvoline vr, or joe gibbs
Posted By: BobR

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 03:01 PM

Quote:

I beleive a lot of the high dollar imports, Lexus, BMW, Jaguars, Mercedes Benz as well as some others come from the factory with pure sybthetic oils in the engines. I think that maybe some American cars do also, maybe not I know a lot of NHRA class racers swore that there cars pick up ET and MPH when they switch to multi viscoty synthetic oils




Corvettes come with Mobil one for sure. Still don't think it's any better for regular use. Higher RPM for the same viscosity? I'd have to see that to believe it. No difference in my junk. It's better in extreme heat conditions that street or drag motors are unlikely to see.
Posted By: BobR

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 03:06 PM

Quote:

i use dewco,,, but probably bought the sales pitch from don,, plus maskin used it in their pro stock car..

i ran a hemi on teuton's dyno about 6 or so years ago,, i was given a bunch of mobil 1 syn oil,, like you buy at the parts store,, in the gray bottle,,, i ran the motor with 10-30 penzoil basic oil,, switched to mobil 1 and lost about 5avg horsepower. i thought mobil one was crap but then was told you need the red bottle,, thats the racing oil,, it has zinc in it... the gray bottles have almost no zinc,, ill never run mobil one in anything i own again,, its red line, valvoline vr, or joe gibbs




I agree. Mobil one for the street is formulated for lower emissions. We use nothing but Brad Penn synthetic blend. Our crew chief/engine builder swears by it.
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 03:41 PM

My 528 did not like Mobil 1 on the dyno, lost 17 ft lbs torque. Tried Royal purple at the track, ABA test, RP cost me .1 ET. Back to conventional oil for me in the motor, Syn in the diff.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 05:28 PM

Amazing the different experiences people have. Wonder how many problems are really lube related . I run Royal Purple full synthetic in my 408. Three years now. Change it once a year. No abnormal wear or scuffing problems that I have noticed - and I have had several bad over heats due to blown belts. I usually run one or two grades lighter in viscosity than if I were running petroleum based oil. Definitely believe there is a friction advantage with synthetics - without film loss. I do run a zinc additive with it as I am running a large flat tappet hyd.
Posted By: BobR

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 05:56 PM

Quote:

Amazing the different experiences people have. Wonder how many problems are really lube related . I run Royal Purple full synthetic in my 408. Three years now. Change it once a year. No abnormal wear or scuffing problems that I have noticed - and I have had several bad over heats due to blown belts. I usually run one or two grades lighter in viscosity than if I were running petroleum based oil. Definitely believe there is a friction advantage with synthetics - without film loss. I do run a zinc additive with it as I am running a large flat tappet hyd.




I think that the last sentence to your post is the difference.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 06:08 PM

Could be?? My edit was that last sentence. I guess that's my security blanket Been running the same flat teppet ( over .600 lift ) for 3 years now, so I probably don't need the additive anymore.
Posted By: 540challenger

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 06:11 PM

I run AMS Oil dominator oil no problems running a 15w-50 it has a high zinc content in it
Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 06:13 PM

Quote:

Could be?? My edit was that last sentence. I guess that's my security blanket Been running the same flat teppet ( over .600 lift ) for 3 years now, so I probably don't need the additive anymore.




I have never ran an additive with my .672 flat tappet, just straight street Mobil 1 10w-30.

I just recently pulled the heads for more port work and bigger valves for my new stroker and the cam and lifters still look great. It's an older Hughes/Engle cam and lifters. 440# springs over the nose of the cam too. The Hughes recommended 330# springs wouldn't rev past 7500.
Posted By: moderncylinder

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 07:11 PM

how much extra oil do you guys put in with a fresh motor over what is usual once its been run? like if its got a 7 qt system do you put 7 in it fresh,, or 9? or??
Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 08:01 PM

Quote:

how much extra oil do you guys put in with a fresh motor over what is usual once its been run? like if its got a 7 qt system do you put 7 in it fresh,, or 9? or??




I don't put extra oil in it, I think the chance for aeration would be much worse on an engine.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 08:02 PM

No extra. I run an 8 qt. pan and I run 8 qts. in it.
Posted By: moderncylinder

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/25/11 10:12 PM

well you have to fill the oil holes,, pushrods,, and wet the inside of the motor,,,, i usually see a qt and a half on my motor when its new,,, i pour in 9.5 qts,,, prime it,,, drain the pan and have 8 in the bucket..

i know a few guys who have spun bearings cause they put their motor together and just ran the "usual" amount,, which really was a qt or two low
Posted By: Leigh

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/26/11 12:58 AM

Fill it, prime it, refill it.
Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/26/11 02:05 PM

It only takes about a pint to lube the engine. I'd think if they spun bearings on a fresh build they screwed something up. Not primed, not properly lubed on assembly or maybe the wrong assembly lube was used. Of course there could have been improper clearances or other mechanical faults.

Even a quart low on a stationary engine shouldn't be a problem.
Posted By: moderncylinder

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/26/11 04:07 PM

it takes more than a pint,, especially with rocker shafts,, and all...

i know a stock hemi takes about 1.5qts
Posted By: Mike Swann

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/26/11 04:23 PM

Quote:

I beleive a lot of the high dollar imports, Lexus, BMW, Jaguars, Mercedes Benz as well as some others come from the factory with pure sybthetic oils in the engines. I think that maybe some American cars do also, maybe not I know a lot of NHRA class racers swore that there cars pick up ET and MPH when they switch to multi viscoty synthetic oils




Cab,

I have 2 Mercedes that everyone & the dealer swore had to have synthetic in them. I back tracked down the EU and API specs for lube oil on each model, selected an appropriate conventional oil and put it in. That was collectively 150k miles ago.

I tried the synthetic in the race car once, didnt see any appreciable wear improvement, but had indications of low viscosity at temperature.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/26/11 05:50 PM

Quote:

well you have to fill the oil holes,, pushrods,, and wet the inside of the motor,,,, i usually see a qt and a half on my motor when its new,,, i pour in 9.5 qts,,, prime it,,, drain the pan and have 8 in the bucket..

i know a few guys who have spun bearings cause they put their motor together and just ran the "usual" amount,, which really was a qt or two low


Interesting.................I usually race w/6 quarts in my 8 quart pan up to 7500 rpm`s but havn`t tore the bottom end down yet in over six years. My oil pressure is rock solid hot even w/my "witches brew" of 5-20 Valvoline crude mixed w/Mobile 1 AND I`ve run Valvoline syn. oil in my 8 3/4 w/Richmonds and a spool for ever.
Posted By: BobR

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/26/11 06:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I beleive a lot of the high dollar imports, Lexus, BMW, Jaguars, Mercedes Benz as well as some others come from the factory with pure sybthetic oils in the engines. I think that maybe some American cars do also, maybe not I know a lot of NHRA class racers swore that there cars pick up ET and MPH when they switch to multi viscoty synthetic oils




Cab,

I have 2 Mercedes that everyone & the dealer swore had to have synthetic in them. I back tracked down the EU and API specs for lube oil on each model, selected an appropriate conventional oil and put it in. That was collectively 150k miles ago.

I tried the synthetic in the race car once, didnt see any appreciable wear improvement, but had indications of low viscosity at temperature.




Some cars experience tremendous oil consumption on long highway runs. My 30,000 mile GT Mustang used 4 quarts of 5w30 mobil 1 oil when I drove it across country a few years back.
Posted By: Thackdaddy

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/26/11 06:48 PM

IHC recommended low ash (non-detergent) 30 weight in many of their tractors. It was no farce as thousands found out.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/26/11 06:58 PM

Quote:

IHC recommended low ash (non-detergent) 30 weight in many of their tractors. It was no farce as thousands found out.


Non detergent oils have no additives to help clean and suspend the sludge made by oils when ran in motors, hence the original "detergent additives" where a selling point. Mobil miss the boat in there AV1 aircracft oil on the additve package, it wouldn't cling, clean or lubricate the camshafts good enough on the Contintental aircraft motors I wouldn't run any of todays motors on non detergent , except for a motor with a flat tappet camshaft and then only for camshaft break in
Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: Crower says no to Synthetic motor oil - 01/26/11 10:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I beleive a lot of the high dollar imports, Lexus, BMW, Jaguars, Mercedes Benz as well as some others come from the factory with pure sybthetic oils in the engines. I think that maybe some American cars do also, maybe not I know a lot of NHRA class racers swore that there cars pick up ET and MPH when they switch to multi viscoty synthetic oils




Cab,

I have 2 Mercedes that everyone & the dealer swore had to have synthetic in them. I back tracked down the EU and API specs for lube oil on each model, selected an appropriate conventional oil and put it in. That was collectively 150k miles ago.

I tried the synthetic in the race car once, didnt see any appreciable wear improvement, but had indications of low viscosity at temperature.




Some cars experience tremendous oil consumption on long highway runs. My 30,000 mile GT Mustang used 4 quarts of 5w30 mobil 1 oil when I drove it across country a few years back.





Some designs cause problems. I know the LS1 came out and one issue that caused oil consumption was the PCV arrangement. I put a catch can deal on mine and it stopped using oil. Had to empty the little can every so often though.
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