The NHRA is getting sued

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/20/11 11:45 PM

I can not imagine that a hefty-CHECK every year would go to at-least one DIRECT family-member of the Parks family FOREVER !

Posted By: 8secDart

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 12:25 AM

In the south NHRA has been out for some 20years.The IHRA runs most of the tracks around here.The IHRA is 100 times better to the racers the the NHRA has ever been.
Once again I hope it puts them in the poor house.

We can do with out NHRA,NHRA can't do without racers.

Posted By: Cudajon

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 12:31 AM

Bring back the AHRA! Raced B/HR for couple years with my RR. Never had a problem.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 12:37 AM

This is not good for us sportsman racers,because we will be the ones who have to pay.

Posted By: sg66mopar

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 12:45 AM

If IHRA would move in here in the Northwest to run some good tracks I'd say "Right On".

In the mean time, just like a few hundred other racers, I don't want to see NHRA go belly up until there's another game in town.

Posted By: JulieJordan

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 01:24 AM

They aren't being sued. A complaint letter was sent to IRS on behalf of an "anonymous client". IRS can or cannot act upon the complaint. If they did it was be an IRS examination of their exempt status, not a lawsuit.

Posted By: Jeepmon

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 02:02 AM

Quote:

They aren't being sued. A complaint letter was sent to IRS on behalf of an "anonymous client". IRS can or cannot act upon the complaint. If they did it was be an IRS examination of their exempt status, not a lawsuit.

True.. but being sued sounds better..

Posted By: SuperStock68Dart

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 02:17 AM

Quote:

They aren't being sued. A complaint letter was sent to IRS on behalf of an "anonymous client". IRS can or cannot act upon the complaint. If they did it was be an IRS examination of their exempt status, not a lawsuit.

Thanks for clearing this up Julie! I didn't see anything about a lawsuit either. Hope your dad is doing good, I'll never forget watching him make that 8.68 pass at Mission!

Shawn Blair 6383SS

Posted By: Steve1118

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 02:18 AM

One of the network ABC/CBS news programs highlighted the NHRA in an "expose" of bogus non profits a few years back. With the government being broke, you can look for more of this.

Anyone with a brain had to see this coming...I have no clue how NHRA maintains a "non-profit" status. NHRA "Full Throttle" drag racing series is most definitely for profit.

It hasn't morphed into anything.....yet....

Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 02:26 AM

I have always wondered why SOMETHING wasn't done, said, Congressional action,,SOMETHING, about NHRA's "non-profit orginization" status....I would have thought that the higher beings would have caught up with this YEARS ago..!! The idea they started out with was good. Then, they
saw it was a GOOD THING,,,making mucho money ETC, it got carried away.
I know in the past, around the '70's,, there was some rumors of people trying to get a division director's position that ended up in some people losing their life over the dispute over who would get the job. It has gotten completely out of hand. I know there has to be safety rules and guide lines to follow in order to have safe racing.
I also know, there has to be reasonable consideration of the participants ability to be able to afford to compete. Maybe this all will be a good deal for the other sanctioning bodies. If NHRA isn't "SETTING" all the rules,, they won't have to follow. I hope, and expect, this WILL help the racers. It will get the field back to more level situation between all the other sanctioning bodies and they all will not have to compete on rules. The MAJOR problem,,lies with the manufacturer's 'contingency money' programs. WE all know, the only reason they offer the money is to have the rules change so we have to keep spending money with them so we can race. I hope all goes well for all the racers. I also believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny. Rant over..

Posted By: Pat7272

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 03:01 AM

Quote:

In the mean time, just like a few hundred other racers, I don't want to see NHRA go belly up until there's another game in town.

I disagree. If the NHRA continues to linger on, its goal will be to change as little as is necessary to comply and act to maintain its status quo. I would agree it will be better for the organization to go belly up and let a new and better one replace it.

It would be cool if a new national drag racing association came to be and took on the NHRA name for nostalgia and history's sake, but thats another matter.

Posted By: Hemi Joe 4911

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 03:08 AM

Saw this years ago either on 60 minutes or 20/20 along with other companies that have been skating around the tax laws. I believe that many of their safety rules are good and other are obviousely a pay off from some manufacturer. I race an nostalgia super stock car approximately seven events a year and when we race at an NHRA track tech always checks the date of your seat belts however, have you ever had them check your tires both front or rear. I understand front tires dry rot easily on the insides due to the heat from the headers, evidently tire manufacturers don't pay off as much, they will have to work on that! Back to the seat belt issue, this should be up to the tech people to determine if the belt is cut or frayed then they must be replaced, I'am tired of every two years of paying over $200.00 dollars to replace like new belts. No one, as of yet checks your personal vehicle that you use daily to see if they must be replaced every two years, and I have been trying to track down the rules set by the FAA on commercial air craft seat belt replacement rules. Due to security issues this has been very difficult to do, however I have learned that they try to replace their belts based on dry cleaning cycles, or if they are visibly tore of freyed, not every two years. I am not real happy that NHRA also raised ticket prices,licensing fees, and only care about TOP FUEL & JOHN FORCE. With those personal incomes, its no wonder that Wally always dressed so nice. Thanks - HEMI JOE

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 03:15 AM

I don't see this doing anything for racers anywhere. doubt anything good will come out of it for us. maybe higher fees

Posted By: DusterDave

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 03:26 AM

Quote:

well this could be a very very bad deal,
on 3 fronts
1 off they should have been taxable,,
2 look at the rate of pay these guys get
3 this could ultimately end drag racing
as we know it !!

That might end up being a good thing. Maybe a shakeup will ultimately make the sport better.

Posted By: robnbird

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 03:27 AM

I have not been a Nhra member for years. If a nhra member is suing NHRA then I would think it would have to be on a class action suit. This would have to copmensate all members. And bankruptcy laws would be different for a non proffit org.

Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 03:52 AM

Everyone who is wishing for the Feds to crack down on NHRA should be careful what they wish for. They certainly are not perfect, but unless you are happy running at some little outlaw 1/8 mile every week, it is in our best interest for NHRA to remain as lucrative and free of government interference as possible. If you think the circus in Ohio can take up the slack, you are not paying attention.

Posted By: slantzilla

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 04:00 AM

Quote:

Everyone who is wishing for the Feds to crack down on NHRA should be careful what they wish for. They certainly are not perfect, but unless you are happy running at some little outlaw 1/8 mile every week, it is in our best interest for NHRA to remain as lucrative and free of government interference as possible. If you think the circus in Ohio can take up the slack, you are not paying attention.

Like them or not, they are still the best game in town. If the IHRA is so cool how come their flagship track and previous owner went NHRA?

AHRA has already been tried and died.

Around here IHRA tracks are getting fewer and farther between.

People wanted Bruton Smith to buy the NHRA. He built Z-Max and forced the NHRA to let him run 4 wide and people whined a fit about it.

No easy answers is there?

Posted By: 6440nssa

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 05:17 AM

I hope they get what they deserve,there skin ripped off and thrown in a vat of salt!!!!!!!!!! they{ NHRA}have screwed us long enough.There are and will be other places to race.

Posted By: polyspheric

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 05:32 AM

1. the IRS has to justify why they aren't investigating the 10,000 known fraudulent not-for-profits, lobbyists, churches donating to terrorists, mayor with $20,000 salaries buying a yacht after 1 year in office, Congressmen with the wives, children, and dogs on the payroll, etc. "No, really, we were very busy - and these guys are EVIL!"
2. they don't need to sue - they have their own Court, and they write the rules. If they lose (how could that happen?) they appeal (meaning: ignore their own Court and drag their feet), if they win they seize anything you own - or that they say you own.

Posted By: dennismopar73

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 05:54 AM

WOW
with monie comes greed, no doubt.
they have brought some good things ,
belts is just a small thing ,
yeah unreasonable, but,
i really have hard time with big pay
and with the racers not being able to race as much
tracks closing , higher enterance fees
fuel/cost soaring,
they did buy couple tracks kept them from going under
they outdualed the ahra which is basical in the history books now.
the i h r a is now being the upstart racing circle,
due to al-anabi racing /adrl
i think what you may see in the furture is, some type
of merger.
the racing community as a whole cannot
keep both,,not at this current rate of finacial whoos.
drag racing is in a tailspin racer /spectators ,are down
in both ,in most areas,
lot of kids are not getting into as we did
more into ipads, computors/ gaghets
smart phones . not cubic inches
the race track youre on now maynot be there next
year, so to say
'there are better places to race' ..
be carefull what you say,,
you may very well eat those words

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 05:54 AM

Most of the people that complain about the NHRA, have no legitimate beef, or even know why they are complaining. It is just that "blood in the water" mentality, that makes everyone want to pile on.

This seatbelt rule that you guys get so bent out of shape about, is NOT an NHRA rule. It is a rule set forth by the SFI foundation and NHRA chooses to recognize SFI as the governing body, concerning safety rules. Other orgs, such as the NTPA, IHBA, Nascar and many others also follow SFI guidelines.

Then, the contingency comments are just laughable. Unless you work for a company, that actually pays contingency, or have worked with a race org, then I can just about guarantee, that you have no clue how it works............but the comments like "the contingency sponsors pay off the NHRA, so that rules are changed and we have to continue to buy their products to race"......what?????? Somebody watches too many episodes of "Conspiracy Theory".

Whether you hate NHRA or not, to claim that the sport would be better off without them and hope for their demise, is VERY shortsighted...to put it mildly.

Monte

Posted By: NDragster

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 06:37 AM

Wow. Monte the voice of reason. I think you have summed up my feelings nicely. Thanks for the comments.

Personally, I'd like for some of the malcontents here (and on other forums) to see how NHRA and ND operate on a day to day basis. Having been here longer than I care to admit I tend to think that if you had a chance to walk the halls of Glendora, you'd see that the overwelming majority of my co-workers (including upper management) care a lot more about the sport and it's participants than you might think.

To put it mildly, there are a lot of challenges these days in running any successful business and I like to think NHRA has weathered the storm better than most. (For example, if your a fan of Superbike racing, as I am, you probably understand where I'm coming from as that sport has just about evaporated on this continent).

For the record, I don't agree with some of the decisions that are made but in most cases, I can at least acknowledge the reasoning behind them.

I try not to engage in many of the political debates here and I usually regret it afterwards but I simply thought many of you might benefit from an insiders point of view.

Kevin McKenna
National Dragster

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 06:54 AM

I dont really see how any of this could be good for anyone who truly loves drag racing. i just dont get the mentality of some folks.

Posted By: 8secDart

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 07:01 AM

Monte when's the last time you ran a NHRA race.

$300 sportsman fee
plus the insurance fees.
NHRA member fee.
If you oil the track down $250 fine
The list goes on and on.
NHRA is far from putting the little guy first.
I have run both Super Street and in Super Stock.
It was the worst racing for me ever.

So yes I will take my little outlaw tracks and IHRA.They tell me Thank you and love having you here.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 08:32 AM

As one who is not in total agreement with the some of the rules and regulations of NHRA and would like to see some changes I would like to see many of the other non-profit organizations like churches,charities and other humanitarian organizations be investigated for financial statis and how much they pay their top people and how much is used in other questionable "administration fees".These practices go on in many public and private companys as we have seen in banking,insurance,unions and the auto industry.The sad part is our government uses our tax dollars to fund these organizations.We have no one to blame but ourselves for supporting these organizations and electing our government officials.Another prime example is aid to other countries,look at all the money raised for Haiti,all those millions and only a few has actually reached those who need it,where is all the money?NHRA's 80,000 members are not protesting or complaining but just accepting what is dished out and keep paying the cost.Like cattle lined up for slaughter,they think it's just another day at the feed pens until they get hit between the eyes,by then it's to late,the end.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 09:25 AM

Quote:

This seatbelt rule that you guys get so bent out of shape about, is NOT an NHRA rule. It is a rule set forth by the SFI foundation and NHRA chooses to recognize SFI as the governing body,

Come on Monte .... NHRA and SFI ? ... they are almost ONE and the SAME biz. LOTS of people have gone back and forth from BOTH of those businesses

And good-ole NDragster ... NOTHING to say about those two top-dog BIG CHECKS that they get ? And I will bet that ole ND does quite well toooo !

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 11:19 AM

I think it would be good for racers to have a voice with the nhra. maybe be on the board or something like that. it's hard to swallow all the rising fees and charges when you take a look at the top dogs income. I don't want to see them leave just maybe some changes in favor of the racers.

Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 12:04 PM

Oh... i thought someone was finally suing them for destroying drag racing...

Posted By: BDS871Cuda

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 03:19 PM

Hate to say it, but the over safe rules are what
is killing the sport. Everytime you turn around
there is a new safty rule for a torn finger nail.
Now take seat belts, only good for two years???
But your local hillbilly roundy round racer can
run his coat hanger bubble welded late model
NASCAR with belts out of a drag car from 20 years
ago.

OK, now a racer was killed because why? His car was not safe? Maybe the race surface was not
safe. So now we have to tell everyone that the
racing as we know it, is now going in the other
direction. We will shorten the race track 320ft
everytime someone is killed. The motor will be
down sized if anyone is hurt. Before long, we
will be racing briggs n stratten powered
dragsters just a few hundred feet. OH!! NO!!!
we do that already.

Keep shortening the track, keep slowing the cars
down, keep complaining about who earns what and
who makes the most money.

Tell a guy from NASA that to many people died
in the space program, so just to make it safe
we will not go to Mars. OR!!! someone makes to
much money and I hope the program fails!

The world is ran by GREED and each one of us is
just as greedy as the next. Keep hopeing the
NHRA will fail, and drag racing will fail.
Move forwards not backwards.

Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 04:13 PM

Quote:

Most of the people that complain about the NHRA, have no legitimate beef, or even know why they are complaining. It is just that "blood in the water" mentality, that makes everyone want to pile on.

This seatbelt rule that you guys get so bent out of shape about, is NOT an NHRA rule. It is a rule set forth by the SFI foundation and NHRA chooses to recognize SFI as the governing body, concerning safety rules. Other orgs, such as the NTPA, IHBA, Nascar and many others also follow SFI guidelines.

Then, the contingency comments are just laughable. Unless you work for a company, that actually pays contingency, or have worked with a race org, then I can just about guarantee, that you have no clue how it works............but the comments like "the contingency sponsors pay off the NHRA, so that rules are changed and we have to continue to buy their products to race"......what?????? Somebody watches too many episodes of "Conspiracy Theory".

Whether you hate NHRA or not, to claim that the sport would be better off without them and hope for their demise, is VERY shortsighted...to put it mildly.

Monte

Relayed this to Dallas Gardner,,,,he said your check (for all the support) will go in the mail today.

Posted By: MegaDart

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 04:25 PM

Don't get me wrong. In no way am I hoping that NHRA fails. I frequent many NHRA tracks and it would be a huge loss to lose them.
I do think they should have lost their tax exempt status YEARS ago, in fact I am amazed they still have it. They are BIG business with huge profits, they should pay Uncle Sam just like you and I do...

Posted By: cudadon

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 04:49 PM

Quote:

I dont really see how any of this could be good for anyone who truly loves drag racing. i just dont get the mentality of some folks.

Yeah and I love how ihra (around here anyway) sold racers on the "combo" race.
So you win your class and still might get runner up money!

I'll race at Route 66 anyday.

Don

Attached picture 6430584-kingoftrack2010.jpg

Posted By: rowin4

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 05:16 PM

Don't you think that a tax exempt status organization would pay their board members a little less? lets say $200,000 not the top 2 guy's a million bucks. what is none profit about that? I think uncle sam should investigate and take away their status and pay any back tax's, fee's and penalty's . Sounds like the RED CROSS to me.

Posted By: RodStRace

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 05:45 PM

The ND guy himself used the word "Business".
A poor choice perhaps, but is an indication that it IS a business, not an org.

Rules are set up due to SFI and insurance input, not racer input. That should change to include racer input, it's gone too far. Racer input only would also be wrong, probably too lenient.

NHRA has consolidated and monopolized to the point where it's big business and does not listen to it's members and core audience.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 05:52 PM

Quote:

Monte when's the last time you ran a NHRA race.

$300 sportsman fee
plus the insurance fees.
NHRA member fee.
If you oil the track down $250 fine
The list goes on and on.
NHRA is far from putting the little guy first.
I have run both Super Street and in Super Stock.
It was the worst racing for me ever.

So yes I will take my little outlaw tracks and IHRA.They tell me Thank you and love having you here.

I have not raced at an NHRA event personally in years, because I am tuning now, instead of driving. But as far as being there with cars I was tuning on.......about 8 events in 2010. Not one of those guys complained about anything, or that they were being treated poorly. As a matter of fact, we did all the Unleashed races and were treated fantastic.

I have been to just as many IHRA events as NHRA over the years and frankly can't tell the difference in how we were treated. The Pros get most of the attention in NHRA, same in IHRA. The events I went to, if you were not in FC, PS or PM with IHRA, they did not care. And that traveling freak show they have going on now, is 100% about entertaining the fans and nothing about the drivers, so don't tell me how much better they treat the racers. Why do you think all the PM and PS guys are at the ADRL and NHRA

Who cares what Tom Compton makes. He is the presdident of a major corporation. I would imagine his pay is in line with other people with similar positions. Why don't you find out what the president of that organization that owns IHRA makes, bet it's more than Compton.

I am NOT a huge NHRA supporter, I don't like everything they do, but I also realize that drag racing would be much worse of without them and all this supposed mistreatment of the racers, in my 30+ years of participating at NHRA events, I have not seen it.

You will always have people that complain, but those are likely the same people that would complain, regrdless of what you did. Everybody is out to get them and they always feel slighted in some way, so they are going to complain about it.

Monte

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 05:56 PM

Quote:

The ND guy himself used the word "Business".
A poor choice perhaps, but is an indication that it IS a business, not an org.

Rules are set up due to SFI and insurance input, not racer input. That should change to include racer input, it's gone too far. Racer input only would also be wrong, probably too lenient.

NHRA has consolidated and monopolized to the point where it's big business and does not listen to it's members and core audience.

Ever been to an SFI meeting....I have. Regarding some new chassis and safety specs. There were execs from every organization, chassis builders, tech guys and yes.....racers in attendance.

Monte

Posted By: Blucuda413

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 06:00 PM

Well said Monte, I agree 100%. Max

Posted By: oldiron

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 06:05 PM

So I guess if the NHRA has to pay taxes and gets driven out of drag racing its going to make peoples life better?!?! How?

I guess being vindictive is an end to itself

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 06:35 PM

B G Racing,Bob said it best.

Posted By: dartman366

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 08:11 PM

I feel they should pay their tax's juat like you, me and anyone else,they may of been non profit at one time, but that time died long, long, ago,,and if paying their tax's put's them under then there is alot more underlying issues than money. jmo

Posted By: ProStDodge

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 08:11 PM

First - I will say that Monte's take on the subject is right on (again) in my opinion. Which is why his input is so respected on this forum.

Second - Enough with the seat belt B.S. - its a rule in BOTH IHRA and NHRA. Does that mean IHRA is in cahoots with S.F.I. too? Not correct in either case. It means a standard needed to be set to regulate safety items, including seat belts. S.F.I. set the standard. It is a standard which not only helps to insure the belts are in optimal condition, but also to cover their behinds from legal actions. Not all seat belts are created equal and not all are properly cared for. Improper mounting, weather, and sunlight wear the material the belts are made from. Yes, if my car sits in a climate controlled garage any time its not racing, the belts will likely get little or no wear. But there is NO way to control that for every racer. So, the minimum standard was set. I am sure it was fudged on the "safe" side to appease the legal department.

So the 2-year belts are a RULE in both IHRA and NHRA - shut up and live with it, or find a new hobby. (this is NOT directed at any one poster - but to all those that insist on beating this dead horse over and over again)

Scott

Posted By: mopacltd

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 08:37 PM

Carl Olson....head of SFI and gets his weekly check made payable from the NHRA.

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 08:55 PM

Quote:

Carl Olson....head of SFI and gets his weekly check made payable from the NHRA.

isn't that an interesting arrangement.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 09:12 PM

Quote:

Who cares what Tom Compton makes. He is the presdident of a major corporation.

Monte

OH Monte ......NOW it is a major CORPORATION ? ...

And good ole Carl Olson .... when I was an associate and major sponsor I knew him well. And I bugged-him about bogus rules(and the lack of some legit ones) ... that are NOW instituted or changed.

Posted By: oldiron

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 09:21 PM

I would assume that everyone that works for NHRA and gets a paycheck, pays taxes, just like anyone that gets paid.

Posted By: NDragster

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 09:23 PM

Quote:

Carl Olson....head of SFI and gets his weekly check made payable from the NHRA.

Not one word of that is true. First off, Carl is not the head of the SFI. Secondly, he is a former employee of NHRA (as well as a pretty good former Top Fuel racer and a member of the Bonneville 200 MPH club)Not a current NHRA employee.

Ahh, the beauty of the internet...

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 09:32 PM

Quote:

Ahh, the beauty of the internet...

Ahhh YES ... the BEAUTY of it .....

How IT CAN dig-up some dirty little secrets !!

I see that you did not DENY that Carl just-might STILL be getting-a-check from the NHRA. And that the NHRA and SFI are not in-bed-together.

Come on Kevin ...spill-DA-beans ..

...

Posted By: slippery440

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 09:35 PM

Monte is right. It will be bad for all racers.
I have 4 tracks close by and 2 are NHRA. Hope this will not effect them.

Posted By: rowin4

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 09:52 PM

Monte, As NHRA is not a major corporation and is now a non profit organization , Tom Compton and his cronies should be paid non profit wages. I don't care how smart you are, $700,000. wage is not average for that position. Nothing against NHRA,just pay taxes due like all the other similar businesses , and NHRA shouldn't be tax exempt.

Posted By: NDragster

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 09:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Ahh, the beauty of the internet...

Ahhh YES ... the BEAUTY of it .....

How IT CAN dig-up some dirty little secrets !!

I see that you did not DENY that Carl just-might STILL be getting-a-check from the NHRA. And that the NHRA and SFI are not in-bed-together.

Come on Kevin ...spill-DA-beans .. ...

I don't feel like I owe anyone anything in the form of an explanation but I will say this. I know Carl farily well and consider him a good friend. Does he get a check from NHRA? I seriously doubt it but I haven't asked him. Why the heck would I? I have no need to question his character or integrity.

The one thing I don't understand is why so many people want to pile on SFI, an organization that has no doubt saved hundreds, maybe even thousands of a lives and has done a lot to prevent motorsports in general from being legislated out of existance. What the hell are people arguing about? The right to wear substandard safety equipment? All to save a few dollars. Call me niave but I just don't get that.

I don't get to race too often but the last time I went out, I had to buy a new helmet because the Snell sticker in my old one was expired. The old helmet was barely used. Was I happy about it? No, but I'm willing to accept that it's part of the deal.

As I noted earlier, I usually regret getting involved in these discussions and based on a couple of PMs, I'm already regretting this one.

In the meantime, anyone want to trade a nice clean 1970-1971 Challenger for an equally clean '70 440-6 Road Runner? I'd much rather spend my time on that.

Kevin McKenna

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 09:54 PM

didn't nhra sell the pro side of the business? if so how does one sell a non-profit?

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 09:56 PM

I'm a NHRA member 29125 have been for many years & hope to be for many more. I look forward to my N/D and like many of us they are taking a much needed break. And being N/D is the only True Drag Racing Mag. I have now had to start reading the News paper(nothing else worth reading) waiting for my next copy.HINT HINT Mr N/D man

Time to renew my N/D and get new seat belts!!! The N/D fees I don't mind,but the seat belts

they are like new,not even any dust on them.The cheaper latch belts just don't cut it in a dragster.

With the economy the way it is at the present,us small time racers deserve at least some small form of a break from both NHRA & IHRA on this seat belt issue and a few more things. Maybe some of you that have plenty of $$$ that say seat belts need to be replace every time we turn around could help out some of us that can't afford that.

When none of us racers can afford to race any more,it won't matter if NHRA or IHRA pays taxes any more.

I am a Racer and not a good speaker like Bob & Montie (wish I was)but I think we are looking at things wrong here.
Should we not be more concern over who's trying to sue or cause NHRA problems. It matters not if we(I like them) like NHRA or not,if they go under racing as we know it will come to a end.
If anyone causes NHRA or even IHRA any additional expenses,who do you think it will end up costing in the long run?

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 10:10 PM

Quote:

Most of the people that complain about the NHRA, have no legitimate beef, or even know why they are complaining. It is just that "blood in the water" mentality, that makes everyone want to pile on.

This seatbelt rule that you guys get so bent out of shape about, is NOT an NHRA rule. It is a rule set forth by the SFI foundation and NHRA chooses to recognize SFI as the governing body, concerning safety rules. Other orgs, such as the NTPA, IHBA, Nascar and many others also follow SFI guidelines.

Then, the contingency comments are just laughable. Unless you work for a company, that actually pays contingency, or have worked with a race org, then I can just about guarantee, that you have no clue how it works............but the comments like "the contingency sponsors pay off the NHRA, so that rules are changed and we have to continue to buy their products to race"......what?????? Somebody watches too many episodes of "Conspiracy Theory".

Whether you hate NHRA or not, to claim that the sport would be better off without them and hope for their demise, is VERY shortsighted...to put it mildly.

Monte

So if as you say, SFI just makes guidelines, who makes the rules?

Why can I run 9.20's in IHRA but need a SFI tag to run NHRA? Who made that rule?

Why does an IHRA chassis SFI tag cost twice as much as a NHRA SFI tag as they meet the same specs? Why do we even need two tags meeting the same specs if it isn't about the money?

Would the sport be better off with NHRA gone? No

Would the sport be better off with the current board of directors gone? YES!

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 10:27 PM

Quote:

I don't feel like I owe anyone anything in the form of an explanation but I will say this. I know Carl farily well and consider him a good friend. Does he get a check from NHRA? I seriously doubt it but I haven't asked him. Why the heck would I? I have no need to question his character or integrity.

The one thing I don't understand is why so many people want to pile on SFI,

As I noted earlier, I usually regret getting involved in these discussions and based on a couple of PMs, I'm already regretting this one.

NO ... you don't "owe" anyone anything here ... but then WHY are you then on this topic ? ... WHO HERE is questioning Carl's character and integrity ?(are you suggesting that we should be doing so?)

Has the SFI done some good ? ...YES. Would the racing world be better off WITHOUT them? .. NO. But are there some BS rules that need backing-off-of ? ... another YES.

You REGRETTING partaking in this conversation ....why so ??

Posted By: actionange

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 10:29 PM

Just my

on the seatbelt thing:
Let's hope that we never have to actually put those belts to the test when we're racing. For $69.88 to $239.95 every 2 years it's a small price to pay for something that might save your life.
What value do you put on your life?
OK it'll be opening day before we know it so let's get ready to RACE!!!

Posted By: plasticfantastic

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 10:41 PM

A lot of what I read is about needing to spend money on tags and belts and this and that, I've always been amazed that people CHOOSE to go that fast, CHOOSE to build a car to compete at that level then complain about the requirements of competing at that level.
Working at a drag strip when I was 16 watching grown men show up with 7 second cars and wanting to race with only a piece of canvis over the trans hump... watching grown men who claim to be as intelligent as they come want to race a 8 second car with a cage that was spot welded in... seeing the guy show up with the top sportsman car with a nitrous bottle in the cabin, no pop off valve, belts expired by a year, IHRA tag expired by a year trying to get to race down an NHRA track... throwing a fit cuz its not right that he should have to do this and that...

I can imagine some "smart" man thinking that his 18 year old 3 inch belts are perfectly fine to run, even if it has integrity issues, and its frayed around the mounting bracket.

I'm sure everyone on this board would never do anything like what I've mentioned above, BUT there are people out there like that, and with insurance rates and liability issuses, there are rules and requirements for a reason, why is it 2 years? I dont know, but I dont care you know why? Because when I choose to build my roadrunner up to the point where I need belts, I accepted that responsibility KNOWING that every 2 years I have to get them restamped or replaced.
do i think about NHRA and the money they are supposedly making? NO, I think that well this is the choice I made to race at this level.

Posted By: mopacltd

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 11:19 PM

Federal Government regulation for pilot restraint system in all model, current fighter aircraft is to be replaced every 5 years! These pilots go from 9 positive to 9 negative g's. These aircraft set in the sun on the tar mat much more thatn any of our race cars are parked or raced in the sun. Any explaination for that one? I personally asked Carl Olson that years ago in the SFI office in Rancho Bernardo. His answer, "please leave my office"!

Posted By: cgall

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 11:26 PM

This isn't about seat belts or even a lawsuit. This is about an ambulance-chasing law firm that is hunting for big game. They obviously stand to receive some kind of reward for turning in "tax cheats".

I am certain that the IRS has watched NHRA closely over the years. They should have no worries as long as everything is legal and documented.

Imagine if they lost their tax-exempt status, or worse yet had to pay huge back taxes. They would have no choice but to raise fees and reduce expenses to stay afloat.

I haven't run an NHRA event in 10 years, but I like going to Indy and the Sportsnationals and watching the Stock and S/S cars. I would hate to see any of that go away or become unaffordable because of greed.

Oh, and Kevin M., thanks for checking in and straightening out some errors, you have to be thick-skinned to post on these forums.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 11:42 PM

Quote:

Federal Government regulation for pilot restraint system in all model, current fighter aircraft is to be replaced every 5 years! These pilots go from 9 positive to 9 negative g's. These aircraft set in the sun on the tar mat much more thatn any of our race cars are parked or raced in the sun. Any explaination for that one? I personally asked Carl Olson that years ago in the SFI office in Rancho Bernardo. His answer, "please leave my office"!

Good ole Carl ... SOUNDS like something that he would say.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/21/11 11:57 PM

The truth of the matter is that all organizations like any business is all about the money.The bottom line is anyone who heads these enities and can bring in the big bucks gets rewarded.In any dealing there is always the grease that makes the gears work smooth.We find our economy in the toilet because of all the wheeling and dealing at the expense of all the hard working people that put their trust in the hands of those we deem successful,like our govenment,banks,investment groups,unions,insurances,retirement plans,health care and others only to find their hard earned dollars have been lost to the personal gain of a few greedy people.Gone are the days when someone could work hard and reap the rewards for their hard honest efforts and hello to the era of big organizations that will take ones hard earned dollars and wastefully spend it.After 46 years in the construction business,doing work for private companies,federal,state and local agencys such as DOT,Port Authority Transit,Army Corp of Engineers and others I have seen the waste of our dollars that would make you

.What we see is just business as usual.A good analogy is "why do you think some politicians spend millions to get a job that might pay a few hundered thousand a year?"Our sport is no different,it's infested with same attitudes.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 12:04 AM

We now have a close race on the seat belt issue!!!
The racers that have to buy them....are asking only for a few more years before replacing them.

The non racers who do not have race cars,are saying no problem replace them every 2 years

I think I speak for the True Racers when I say this!!!! I am not going to buy a cheap set of belts to put in my Race-Car.Like everything else we buy the very best for our cars(has anyone that does not have these belts checked out the Quality of them lately)and therefore we buy only the best belts.If we are smart enought to build these cars, do you none racers think we are not smart enought to know if we damage one of them? You can buy a new set and cut one putting it in.Is it then still good for 2 years? If we damage our belts within a 2 year period we know to replace them.
The belts now should be good enought for 4 years.If not the SFI should not let the Company sell them to us to go in a Race-Car

Posted By: rickstershemi

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 12:13 AM

Quote:

Just my on the seatbelt thing:
Let's hope that we never have to actually put those belts to the test when we're racing. For $69.88 to $239.95 every 2 years it's a small price to pay for something that might save your life.
What value do you put on your life?
OK it'll be opening day before we know it so let's get ready to RACE!!!

Always thought the 2-year rule was BS.....according to your way of thinking....we should have to get new seatbelts for our daily drivers every two years because statistics prove we are more likely to sustain a severe accident than any race car driver.....nothing personal, just my

As far as NHRA.....it would be bad for racers if they dissapear

Rickster

Posted By: mopacltd

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 12:13 AM

I think if you check, most of the matierial for the seat belts(or in some cases, the whole set up)comes from China. So, your point about buying the best is not a valid point. Maybe we should just get the companies to purchase material in the good ol' USA and that would solve a lot of the problems.

Posted By: mopacltd

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 12:25 AM

The NHRA�s Not-For-Profit 501(c) status has been challenged by a currently unnamed entity.

On January 12, 2011, the Washington, DC-based law firm of Caplin & Drysdale, generated a letter on behalf of an anonymous client, requesting the Internal Revenue Service [IRS] investigate the NHRA�s current tax status.

Caplin & Drysdale has appointed Senior Partner Marcus Owens as the lead counsel for this action and in an exclusive interview with CompetitionPlus.com on Friday morning Owens confirmed his firm had in fact generated a letter [click here for letter] requesting the IRS�s Lois Lerner, Director of Exempt Organizations Division, investigate the 501(c) status of the NHRA.

Owens, a former IRS employee who was Director of Exempt Organizations Division from 1990 � 2000, signed the letter which cites the NHRA�s activities mimic those organized by for-profit entertainment companies such as NASCAR and the IHRA.

Owens revealed to CompetitionPlus.com his client is an amateur racer who fears backlash if his identity becomes public. Current NHRA regulations prevent any participant from competing in an event if they are in litigation with the sanctioning body. However, requesting an investigation from the IRS currently has no stipulations placed on it.

So why would Owens� client request the investigation?

�My client is frustrated and concerned and feels like a small group has manipulated the National Hot Rod Association (to) their own personal ends as opposed to the ends of the members; as opposed to focusing on promoting the sport of drag racing,� said Owens. �[The client] feels that the organization which is a tax exempt entity is not supposed to run like a commercial enterprise, like a business with owners, and it seems to be running that way.�

The client, Owens conveyed, believes the efforts of some to improve the sport seems to be continually sabotaged by those who seek personal benefit without regard to what is in the best interests of the membership of the organization.

�The efforts [of the NHRA] to abolish the membership concept with regard to the organization is troubling to them,� Owens added.

And if you ask Owens, he�ll tell you the NHRA really doesn�t have a true �membership� by the spirit of the definition.

�The NHRA has legally no members,� he explained. �That is pursuant to existing language and its bylaws. Right now a member of the NHRA is someone who has an affinity towards the organization. It�s an affinity relationship not unlike the relationship that someone who�s a sponsor of the local symphony or the local zoo. It carries no particular privileges or rights with it that one would normally think of in terms of membership. Now for Private One C-6 purposes that category of tax exempt organization is intended to be an entity that furthers particular professions and are not supposed to be operating like a commercial entity.

�I think the concept of a member is kind of fluid on both sides here but has been construed by the NHRA to be something other than the kind of membership they had when they were first created and the members actually had a vote in what went on and what direction the organization would take.�

Owens letter to the IRS focused on various issues ranging from track ownership to top tier management compensation.

Management compensation was clearly a forefront issue. The letter points out what the client believes are salaries well above the industry standard. Owens believes NHRA President Tom Compton�s $771, 632 in taxable and non-taxable 2008 compensation was well above the average of $642,447 in 2006 for full-time compensation paid to CEOs at the ten largest trade associations in the United States. He bases his belief on the Association Compensation & Benefits Study from 2006.

In addition, the letter points out the salary paid for former NHRA President and current Chairman of the Board Dallas Gardner. According to the letter citing the 2008 Form 990, Gardner devoted 10 hours per week to NHRA in his capacity.

Owens contends that one of the requirements for tax exempt status under the Internal Revenue code is that trade associations avoid what is known as inurement. The tone of the letter insinuates the NHRA�s upper management has floated dangerously close to �inurement�.

By IRS definition, Inurement occurs when an �insider� of an exempt organization receives any of an organization�s net income or inappropriately uses any of its assets for personal gain. Any amount of inurement according to the IRS, no matter how small, can jeopardize an organization�s tax-exempt status.

�One of the requirements for tax exempt status under the Internal Revenue code is that the trade associations avoid what is called inurement. That is called a diversion of assets to somebody who is in a position of control that is something other than reasonable compensation,� said Owens. �A tax law concept that applies to both taxable and non-taxable organizations and basically it�s defined as compensation that�s above what similar organizations would pay for similar positions under similar circumstances. So it looks to the norms to have averages. It doesn�t mean that the organization can�t pay more it just has to be justified by special circumstances.

�What we�re simply pointing out here in the complaint is that there appears to be a pattern of quite handsome compensation that�s above the norms. It�s not clear whether that was justified or whether that was a diversion of money but it�s certainly above the norms. It�s something that we believe suggests that the activity of the NHRA is starting to act like more of a commercial business offering goods and services for sale to the public. We think it�s an indicator of ordinary commercial activity other than focused on promoting the health and industry of the sport.�

Owens alluded that his client doesn�t seek any financial compensation even though those who report tax offenders are typically paid a reward. The sole intention of this process, Owens says, is to change the way the organization does business in terms of their tax status.

�I think the client wants simply for the organization to be run to the benefit of the members and for the benefit of the sport and not for private entities,� Owens explained. �There�s never been any mention of that kind of thing [IRS reward] and in fact I don�t think it would be available because the information we�ve collected is essentially publicly available information. It�s just putting it together and putting it in the context of the tax law and bringing that to the attention of the IRS.

�It�s not like facts were uncovered that you and I couldn�t uncover on our own if we just spent some time digging. The criteria of gaining a reward are bringing something to the IRS�s attention that they couldn�t have found on their own.�

If the NHRA is to be found to be in violation of their not-for-profit status, penalties can range from a slap on the wrist to loss of non-profit status. In between the two are various financial penalties.

While it could appear that Owens represents a client with an ax to grind against the organization, he wants to make the point known his client only wants the best for drag racing, a sport the letter insinuates is at the mercy of a select few executives seeking personal gain.

�My client is a participant in the sport and feels like this organization isn�t helping further the standards of the sport and whether it�s moving rather dramatically into the vein of being a commercial business and that is changing the nature of the sport,� Owens contends.

With full knowledge of the letter's contents, the NHRA provided CompetitionPlus.com with a statement through VP of Communications Jerry Archambeault late Thursday evening. CompetitionPlus.com was the first and only media outlet to contact the NHRA requesting statement.

"NHRA was granted exempt status by the IRS decades ago and has operated accordingly ever since. In its annual tax returns filed with the IRS, NHRA has clearly laid out its operations. Since its formation in 1951, NHRA has operated to further its mission of preserving and promoting the sport of drag racing and improving safety in the sport. Founded by Wally Parks to provide a safer alternative to illegal street racing, NHRA -- then and now -- supports a broad range of activities from the grassroots to professional levels.

�Claims that NHRA is not operating properly are baseless and not supported by any action from the IRS."

Owens told CompetitionPlus.com that because of IRS policy regarding privacy, the only correspondence his firm will receive is a formal acknowledgement of receipt for the letter. This process generally takes three weeks.

Just because of his status as a former IRS employee, Owens doesn�t feel any more confident in the case than if he hadn�t held the position.

�I�m confident because of my knowledge of the tax law involved here but the fact that my name is on a complaint isn�t going to change the way the IRS looks at it one way or the other,� Owens confirmed. �There are an awful lot of former IRS employees working as tax lawyers and I�m sure the agency hears from them all the time. This year the work plan for the Exempt Organizations Division of the IRS is to have a closer look (at) among other things Section 501-C6 organizations.

�It�s an area that the IRS, independent of this complaint, identified as an area of high concern in regards to tax compliance. That work plan is a public document that is posted on the IRS website, the organization�s homepage.�

The bottom line, Owens concludes, his client just wants someone to see whether there�s been any wrongdoing. And this, he says, is for the betterment of the sport.

�Our client�s main concern is they want to be protected and they want to bring the facts to the attention of someone who can review them and whether or not there is a finality of a tax problem here.�

CompetitionPlus.com columnist Michael Knight, Senior Editor Jon Asher and Managing Editor Stan Creekmore all contributed to this report

Posted By: mopacltd

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 12:40 AM

NHRA tax return 2009: The returns are in
By Jeff Burk

The NHRA�s 2009 tax returns are now public record and in the musical sense you�d have to say that last year�s record is a solid, gut bucket Blues number as opposed to the normal upbeat Rock and Roll tune the NHRA�s has been releasing the last five years or so.

In 2009 the NHRA remained at over $100,000,000 in annual revenues. That�s the good news. The bad news is that NHRA revenues dropped from just under $122,000,000 in 2008 to just a tick over $108,000,000 in 2009! That a $14,000,000 drop. To put it in drag racing terms, it has about the same effect on the NHRA as did the NHRA forcing Pro Mod teams that use superchargers to reduce their overdrive from 20% over crankshaft speed to 14% over crank speed. Both the racers and the NHRA will have to develop a new combination to return to their previous performance. Somehow in 2009 NHRA management had to find a way to make do with around $14,000,000 fewer dollars than they had in �08. And I�m guessing they had a similar problem in 2010. So, let�s take a peek at some of the spending numbers for 2009 compared to 2008 found in NHRA�s tax returns for those years.

In 2009 the NHRA Board of Directors were paid just about $1,750,000 and in 2008 that total was just about the same at just a tick over $1,750,000. It should be noted that all of the board members had their pay reduced in 2009. NHRA president Tom Compton took about a 10% pay cut, as did the rest of the members of the Board and other execs. Tom Compton and the rest of his staff deserve some praise for that move.

The exception to that trend was the senior director of sales and business development, John Siragusa. His salary went up to about $423,000 in 2009 from $356.000 in 2008 because he worked his tail off and sold more.

In an effort to improve the bottom line for the company, total salaries dropped from $20 million plus in 2008 to $17 million plus in 2009.

In 2008 ticket sales revenue was $52 million and in 2009 the number dropped to just $42 million. Membership dues in �08 amounted to $4,557,000 in 2008; in 2009 that number was down slightly to $4,400,000.

The National Dragster, which has long been a cash cow for the NHRA, took a big hit with revenues dropping from a reported $8.5 million in 2008 to $6.7 million in 2009.

As we all did in 2009, the NHRA had to tighten its belt. Almost every line item on the 2009 NHRA return showed the results of Tom Compton�s successful cost-cutting measures to compensate for the decline in attendance, advertising revenue and sponsorships for the NHRA.

One NHRA executive asked me privately why my readers and the racers were interested in their tax return and did I think it was any of their business? I replied, �When you force competitors and team members to join the NHRA and they send the sanctioning body around $4,000,000 at year with no control over what is done with that money, I think they have a right to know where their dues are being spent.�

I hope you agree.

Posted By: cgall

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 01:26 AM

Holy shoepolish, Mopac, you have a serious axe to grind.

As far as the seatbelt webbing is concerned, a lot of it is made by Ancra Intl., they have a plant in Erlanger, KY that weaves miles of the stuff. Maybe they have a plant in China, too, I don't know, I think they are out of Australia.

Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 01:30 AM

Does anybody on here remember the old childhood fairy tale,,"The Goose that layed the Golden egg"???? This all reminds me of it. The seat-belt BS aside,,this is why I always hated NHRA. I raced at their tracks because they were the only show in town. It is ALL ABOUT money/greed. NHRA is no different than alot of other sports and their lust for MONEY. Major League Baseball comes to mind. My parents were retired and spent their winters in Florida. They were big baseball fans and attended the spring training camp games. They could not take ANYTHING into the stadium. In the past, they had taken a sandwich or something with them to eat while watching the game. They started checking for these items and my mother was "caught- RED-HANDED" with a box of Cracker Jacks in her purse!!!!! I laughed when I was told the story, but can see the theory behind the rule...if you go in,,you WILL buy something and we WILL make MONEY on you. Pretty much the same with the races. One time in around '81, my six-packer (lunch bucket) cooler was checked as I was going into the Springnationals at Columbus. I had 4 Cokes and 2 beers in it. The Sheriff said "NO WAY YOU CAN TAKE BEER IN HERE!!" I said I can see dozens of people drinking beer right behind you?? He said, they are in,,,you're NOT.
I laughed.,,I got ya',,I have to buy in there HUH? He says YES. Then asks what Im going to do about the beer,,I guess I'll just drink it before I go in!! DON'T LET ME SEE YOU DO THAT OR I'LL ARREST YOU FOR OPEN CONTAINER IN PUBLIC!! I asked about the guys laughing at me on the other side of the chain link fence..he says do what you like. I tossed them in the trash drum,,beside a HUGE pile of beer cans. MONEY MONEY

Posted By: mopacltd

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 02:54 AM

Noaxe to grind, cgall, but after 42 years with the NHRA and the direction it has been going since particularlly the 90's. But really since the days of the elimination of modified, I am just sick of paying, paying and paying. Only to see literally nothing in return. Everything I have posted is public record or from other sites with names of posters. Maybe the NHRA needs this "wake up call"!

Posted By: Super Scamp

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 03:19 AM

Mopac, I agree Sponsors/Big Companys/501-3c. The word (NON-PROFIT) Is it really Non Profit? I want that salary, 1 day a week....

I will keep racing IHRA & Others. NHRA is out of my league.

Attached picture 6431524-SuperScamp014.JPG

Posted By: 70AARcuda

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 04:36 AM

you can read the complaint filed with the IRS

http://www.dragracingonline.com/analysis/images/nhra%20complaint%201-13-11.pdf

Posted By: 8secDart

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 05:37 AM

Quote:

Noaxe to grind, cgall, but after 42 years with the NHRA and the direction it has been going since particularlly the 90's. But really since the days of the elimination of modified, I am just sick of paying, paying and paying. Only to see literally nothing in return. Everything I have posted is public record or from other sites with names of posters. Maybe the NHRA needs this "wake up call"!

Think God everyone on here is not brain dead.Do you people think NHRA owns the tracks.If they go belly up you will still have a place to race.Just not cost you an arm and leg.Most that say it will hurt racing have never ran an NHRA event!!!Running an NHRA track is not running their event.Most complain about the belts,but any SFI item has to be recert or buy a new one.Last time I checked my trans sheild hasn't stopped doing it's job because of the out dated sticker!!

FLAME ON I'am DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 05:52 AM

Quote:

Last time I checked my trans sheild hasn't stopped doing it's job because of the out dated sticker!!

FLAME ON I'am DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You BETTER get a new trans shield ....because yours is NO GOOD according to SFI.

Also ... lets see a RECEIPE of a 8 second street car.

Posted By: 8secDart

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 05:55 AM

Nothing to see,it's 2011 anybody can do it.LOL

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 06:00 AM

Quote:

Nothing to see,it's 2011 anybody can do it.LOL

1/8th mile

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 06:01 AM

Quote:

Nothing to see,it's 2011 anybody can do it.LOL

That EZ ? ...then WHY do you say THIS ?

We can do what most shop's can't and won't.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 06:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Nothing to see,it's 2011 anybody can do it.LOL

1/8th mile

OK Double B ....I missed that !!

Posted By: 8secDart

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 06:04 AM

It's 1/4 AZZ clowns.
And it is easy if you pull you head out of 1969!!!!!!!!!!
Joe Dirt called and is wanting his Van back.

Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 07:26 AM

If you are involved in drag racing on any level, you should be glad NHRA exists, warts and all. And government interference is that last thing you would want. We know what happens when they get involved in something. Don't you think a strong organization, that provides rules and guidelines that are consistent across the country, is beneficial? Do you think the tree, the track, the classes, the rules, being different at every track would be a good thing?
Any discussion about NHRA always comes back to the seat belt rule. How long has this been in effect? Aren't we over it yet? Do you know why that rule came to be? Do some research. When anyone complains about the seat belt rule, I stop paying attention. It's old...really. Find something important to gripe about, like why they took M*A*S*H off the air.
Safety rules are driven by the insurance companies and the lawyers. If it were not possible to obtain insurance, racing as we know would cease to exist. Simple as that.
Like I've said before, they have plenty of room to improve in many areas. But they are the reason drag racing is where it is today.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 07:55 AM

Quote:

A lot of what I read is about needing to spend money on tags and belts and this and that, I've always been amazed that people CHOOSE to go that fast, CHOOSE to build a car to compete at that level then complain about the requirements of competing at that level.
Working at a drag strip when I was 16 watching grown men show up with 7 second cars and wanting to race with only a piece of canvis over the trans hump... watching grown men who claim to be as intelligent as they come want to race a 8 second car with a cage that was spot welded in... seeing the guy show up with the top sportsman car with a nitrous bottle in the cabin, no pop off valve, belts expired by a year, IHRA tag expired by a year trying to get to race down an NHRA track... throwing a fit cuz its not right that he should have to do this and that...

I can imagine some "smart" man thinking that his 18 year old 3 inch belts are perfectly fine to run, even if it has integrity issues, and its frayed around the mounting bracket.

I'm sure everyone on this board would never do anything like what I've mentioned above, BUT there are people out there like that, and with insurance rates and liability issuses, there are rules and requirements for a reason, why is it 2 years? I dont know, but I dont care you know why? Because when I choose to build my roadrunner up to the point where I need belts, I accepted that responsibility KNOWING that every 2 years I have to get them restamped or replaced.
do i think about NHRA and the money they are supposedly making? NO, I think that well this is the choice I made to race at this level.

Doug(plasticfantastic) is my driver and I do what ever it takes to
keep him safe.... BUT I really dont buy into the
2 year seat belt thing.... lets say you get out
10 times a year... thats 20 days of racing and the
belts are shot... to me that should be up to the
inspection guys at the track... if they arent frayed
they should be fine for a 5 year period... as for the
non profit... I dont buy that... my opinion if you
want your company as non profit there should be laws
saying NO ONE can make more than 200K in that company
.......JMO

Posted By: B Dartman

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 01:25 PM

Quote:

Doug(plasticfantastic) is my driver and I do what ever it takes to
keep him safe.... BUT I really dont buy into the
2 year seat belt thing.... lets say you get out
10 times a year... thats 20 days of racing and the
belts are shot... to me that should be up to the
inspection guys at the track... if they arent frayed
they should be fine for a 5 year period... as for the
non profit... I dont buy that... my opinion if you
want your company as non profit there should be laws
saying NO ONE can make more than 200K in that company
.......JMO

Wondering if it's more a UV ray issue which we can't see the damage done aside from fading. Car sitting outside for 2 years baking in the sun could in theory rot the belts; especially in desert southwest. Suspect 2 years is to CYA everyone. I'm in the aviation industry and we "time change" a multitude of parts that are perfectly serviceable all in the interest of public safety. The intent is to change or overhaul the parts before they enter a known window of potential failure. Over time (often in terms of years), these requirements are either shortened or lengthened as data is collected.

P.S. we do NOT change seat belts every 2 years on the aircraft i've worked on (visual inspection only)

Posted By: clonestocker

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 01:30 PM

Here's another read on this. Check it out. matt http://sidragway.com/

Posted By: slantzilla

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 02:23 PM

While I do not agree with the 2 year rule, I am pretty sure it was brought about by someone getting sued. Too many things in this country are brought about by frivilous lawsuits or the threat of one.

We have a lot of safety protocols at work that are just plain dumb, but were brought about by people sitting in offices worrying about how to limit company liability in case of an accident that may never happen anyway.

You guys can always cut some of the sting of changing belts by selling them to dirt racers. Those guys will buy them because they don't have a time limit on them.

Posted By: poisondart2

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 02:33 PM

Quote:

It's 1/4 AZZ clowns.
And it is easy if you pull you head out of 1969!!!!!!!!!!
Joe Dirt called and is wanting his Van back.

I was reading all this and when I got to this I couldnt stop laughing that is just plain funny. Sorry

Posted By: DoubleD

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 03:43 PM

All this is about is somebody hiding behind their attorney and trying to rat out the NHRA by having an inflammatory letter sent to the IRS - Whoop-Dee-Doo - if the person behind this has the stones why not come out and lay it down in public - are they afraid to reveal their identity?? NHRA has some issues no doubt but being chicken little ain't gonna get it done - until you are the voice of the membership and air the laundry and demand changes it ain't gonna happen. Oh and SFI stands for Something Force Invented!

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 03:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

It's 1/4 AZZ clowns.
And it is easy if you pull you head out of 1969!!!!!!!!!!
Joe Dirt called and is wanting his Van back.

I was reading all this and when I got to this I couldnt stop laughing that is just plain funny. Sorry

Joe Dirt would be so envious of my van. He would see my Easter Van-in 77 and my Florida's Van Spring 78 stickers on the wall and want to buy it on the spot.

Just to bring Keven Bacon's six degrees into the thread. The blond in Joe Dirt, along with her twin sister were students in my wife's math class.

As you can see I've done a little racing over the years. You can see by the decals that I raced NHRA up until 95. Up until that time I worked for NHRA getting the track ready for Gatornationals. The more I was around the upper levels of NHRA management the more they made me PO'd. The different divisions in NHRA were always at each other with power trips, throw in Holt, the division director and I had my fill. I decided to take my racing money elsewhere.

I believed if the Board could figure out how to make money without having to put up with the racers and the spectators they would have done it in a heartbeat.

In time my thoughts came to pass, the Board tried to sell the Pro side of NHRA but the HD corporation stockholders voted the purchase down. I'm sure it took them a while to figure out how to cash out NHRA a company that they totally controlled but didn't own. Have any of you thought about what NHRA would be like if the sale had gone though and the Sportsman side of NHRA and the museum would be on their own?

Why did the Board of directors bring in a corporate takeover attorney to the board? Instead they could have selected someone like Bill Bader or Pat Jefferion who knows how to satisfy their customers and has some skin in the game? Even Monty Smith would give them good insight on the board.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 03:57 PM

P.S. we do NOT change seat belts every 2 years on the aircraft i've worked on (visual inspection only)

One of the members here some years ago did a pull
test on numerous old belt sets he had gathered, some
looked good, some were dirty BUT not a single set
broke the strap material... EVERYONE broke the hardware.
So just for kicks I did a couple of pull test on some
of my old sets at work... I wanted to see how the
failures were occurring on the hardware... as in
his testing, my testing showed the hardware failed
first...... but in ALL cases the force needed to
break the hardware was MUCH greater than the human
body can withstand

Posted By: B Dartman

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 04:03 PM

Quote:

One of the members here some years ago did a pull
test on numerous old belt sets he had gathered, some
looked good, some were dirty BUT not a single set
broke the strap material... EVERYONE broke the hardware.
So just for kicks I did a couple of pull test on some
of my old sets at work... I wanted to see how the
failures were occurring on the hardware... as in
his testing, my testing showed the hardware failed
first...... but in ALL cases the force needed to
break the hardware was MUCH greater than the human
body can withstand

Exactly!

And many rules imposed are resultant of lawsuits lost/won in the aftermath of an accident.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 04:15 PM

Race-Cars setting out in the sun for 2 years.

That went out with the Flint-Stones racers years ago.

Some people just don't understand the cost that goes into our Race-Cars. You have got to have a shop to keep it in and work on it,tools,always some high $$$ part to buy to keep it runnig,fuel for the race-car & tow truck(anyone priced that lately)entry fees. Add all that up and you will understand why it is such a burden to update seat belts every 2 years alone with other things.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 04:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

One of the members here some years ago did a pull
test on numerous old belt sets he had gathered, some
looked good, some were dirty BUT not a single set
broke the strap material... EVERYONE broke the hardware.
So just for kicks I did a couple of pull test on some
of my old sets at work... I wanted to see how the
failures were occurring on the hardware... as in
his testing, my testing showed the hardware failed
first...... but in ALL cases the force needed to
break the hardware was MUCH greater than the human
body can withstand

Exactly! And many rules imposed are resultant of lawsuits lost/won in the aftermath of an accident.

I asked a track owner that ran multiple tracks in different states about insurance and SFI and this was his answer.

"the state mandates insurance regulations,,not nhra or ihra and they do not vary much from one track to another.....nhra requires all sfi regulations, some of which i dont agree with...different states do require different insurance policies...premiums almost double if you are an ihra or nhra track.. thanks,"

Posted By: poisondart2

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 05:09 PM

EH100 I was not laughing at you or your van

, just what had been written. I found that sooooooooo funny What can I say- strange sense of humor !

Posted By: CMcAllister

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 05:29 PM

Most of the safety related rules are a result of something happening or nearly happening and the reaction to that. Others are a response to cars going quicker and faster all the time or the availability of new technology. How many 7 second dragsters were bracket racing 20 years ago? Cars are rapidly evolving and the rules have to keep up. A national organization that can keep up with the information and respond with a change in rules and guidelines is the best way to do that.

NHRA's safety rules are developed with the worst case scenario in mind. Maybe your belts are OK after 2 years, but somewhere there is a 350lb. knucklehead who's belts have drug on the ground, had weld sparks all over them, been left in the rain or in an area of high ozone and this is the guy who needs to change his belts out. Somewhere, somebody built a car with exhaust pipe, regardless what the rule book said, and killed or crippled himself. Now we all have to change our belts out and have our cages inspected. NHRA is not interested, for many reasons, in the racer or local tech guy, or lack of, making those decisions.

If a failure or an accident happens once, it can happen again. Often, we don't know what incident triggered a specific rule change. Look at Top Fuel and Funny Car, the accidents that have occurred there, and the response to those in the rules. We know about those because of the "stars" who were involved. Do you think Billy Bob getting killed at some po-dunk track in the woods, because his cage came apart or his WalMart helmet split in half will get any attention on the other side of the country?

People getting hurt or killed is bad for all of us. It's bad publicity, it closes race tracks, it makes insurance premiums go up and it takes money from the sport and gives it to lawyers. Say what you will about their business practices, but without NHRA leading the way on safety guidelines for cars, tracks, driver, etc., the sport would look very different, if it existed at all.

My cars were always legal and I didn't b*&#h and cry about the rules, because I figure that somebody, somewhere may know more than I do. My choice was as simple as yours, do what the rule book says or park it and get yourself a street car.

Posted By: B Dartman

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 05:40 PM

Quote:

Race-Cars setting out in the sun for 2 years. That went out with the Flint-Stones racers years ago.

It was purely a hypothetical eluding to the effects of UV rays....not to be taken in the literal sense Mr. Slate.

Now get back to your quarry!

Posted By: Dago Red

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 05:54 PM

Quote:

I think it would be good for racers to have a voice with the nhra. maybe be on the board or something like that. it's hard to swallow all the rising fees and charges when you take a look at the top dogs income. I don't want to see them leave just maybe some changes in favor of the racers.

You couldn't put six racers in a room and have them agree on how to fart.

NHRA needs to find a way to put butts in all those empty seats that were covered with sponsor banners and tarps last season. They spend all their time kissing up to all those corporate geeks who got in free, couldn't care less about drag racing, wouldn't know a supercharger from super-sized, and are only there for the free beer and barb-b-que, watching the days football game on TV.

I'm no math wiz but, twenty seats sold for $20 is more than no seats sold for $65.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 06:01 PM

Quote:

Any discussion about NHRA always comes back to the seat belt rule. How long has this been in effect? Aren't we over it yet? Do you know why that rule came to be? Do some research.

I'm still waiting to be informed on how this rule came to be.

I won't get over it. I starts all over again every time I throw $120 in the trash can for no legitimate reason.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 06:02 PM

MrMopar, said he would never put substandard parts on his car and he likely wouldn't, but many WOULD, because they are cheaper. Money rules everything and I have seen racers do many STUPID things, in the quest of saving a couple bucks.

He also said real racers know better. Yeah, like the couple of real racers that I saw at I-22 Dragway last year, with a 5.20 dial on a car, try to make a pass in lounge pants and a T-shirt. Then get mad, when they were sent to the pits for proper gear. I have seen Johnny Labbous come to the lanes with no shirt, short pants and flip flops and get upset, because I would not let him run. He has run NHRA his whole life, he knows better, but thought he could get by with it, because so and so outlaw track lets him. So you never ASSUME racers will do the right thing, because many won't, given the opportunity to take a short cut.

As far as the belts and two years, thats a tough call, depends on many things. I was a tech inspector for years. I have seen 5 year old belts look brand new and have seen 1 year old belts look 20 years old. Sent more than one racer to buy new ones, even though his were still in date. It is all about wear and tear. Sure many here race pretty infrequently and the belt rule is a tough pill to swallow. But for guys that race 2-3 nights a week, every week, belts can easily be used up in two years.

Doc, some of the things you say......I wonder how.........never mind.

But Tony's trans shield that is out of date....is it any weaker than when he bought it.....no. But has he modified it, has he blown a tranny up under it, or any number of other things......guess what, you don't know, unless he sends it in for a recert.

SFI was created for one reason, because you CAN'T depend on all racers to do the right thing, you must force some of them.

As far as why chassis certs cost more in NHRA than IHRA..SFI sets the guidelines, but they don't set the price for inspection, nor do they enforce the rules. That is up to the sanctioning bodies to strictly follow, or be lenient on the SFI standards.

Monte

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 06:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I think it would be good for racers to have a voice with the nhra. maybe be on the board or something like that. it's hard to swallow all the rising fees and charges when you take a look at the top dogs income. I don't want to see them leave just maybe some changes in favor of the racers.

You couldn't put six racers in a room and have them agree on how to fart.

NHRA needs to find a way to put butts in all those empty seats that were covered with sponsor banners and tarps last season.

I'm no math wiz but, twenty seats sold for $20 is more than no seats sold for $65.

at a 100mil a year I think they are doing ok, and to have such high paid officials they must not be doing to bad especially for a non-profit. I agree on the reduction on tickets but how could they pay close to 1mil in salary to the ceo if they did?

Posted By: Dago Red

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 06:18 PM

I'm right with ya Quick, It's just yor particular post got me to thinking (no, dinner's not burnin'

)

I've always figured if you can get new folks out to the track (I call 'em civilians) the fun and cool factor will sell itself.

Spending half a weeks salary and getting frisked like you robbed a gas station to get treated like an illegal immigrant isn't gonna cut it. There are plenty of other places to spend your fun time money.

Posted By: tboomer

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 06:42 PM

Guess I didn't read the whole thread..Maybe later..

Just a thought..If there was no NHRA ...Were ya gonna race? Then there will be lots of pissin and moanin...Till then...All I want to do is race...And I don't care who the sanction is thru. I also want a safe place to race at...

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 07:06 PM

I saw Johnny The Loose Caboose @ MMP about 2 years ago @ a Big $$$ Bracket Race @ the end of the year. We were unloading the car and he come over to speak(been knowing him a long time)had on his flip flops & shorts no shirt drinking coffee.It was either 36 or 38 degrees

but I think he made it into the $$$ rounds that day.

I made enought to buy a new set of belts that day myself,but those days don't come that often.

There are always a few who don't play by the Rules and never will. But why punish the rest of us because of one or two?
Myself I am more worried about racers Drinking (Alcohol)& doing Drugs & getting out on the tracks than their seat belts.
Let the people(officials)who police that police the seat belts.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 08:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Ahh, the beauty of the internet...

Ahhh YES ... the BEAUTY of it .....

How IT CAN dig-up some dirty little secrets !!

I see that you did not DENY that Carl just-might STILL be getting-a-check from the NHRA. And that the NHRA and SFI are not in-bed-together.

Come on Kevin ...spill-DA-beans .. ...

I don't feel like I owe anyone anything in the form of an explanation but I will say this. I know Carl farily well and consider him a good friend. Does he get a check from NHRA? I seriously doubt it but I haven't asked him. Why the heck would I? I have no need to question his character or integrity.

The one thing I don't understand is why so many people want to pile on SFI, an organization that has no doubt saved hundreds, maybe even thousands of a lives and has done a lot to prevent motorsports in general from being legislated out of existance. What the hell are people arguing about? The right to wear substandard safety equipment? All to save a few dollars. Call me niave but I just don't get that.

I don't get to race too often but the last time I went out, I had to buy a new helmet because the Snell sticker in my old one was expired. The old helmet was barely used. Was I happy about it? No, but I'm willing to accept that it's part of the deal.

As I noted earlier, I usually regret getting involved in these discussions and based on a couple of PMs, I'm already regretting this one.

In the meantime, anyone want to trade a nice clean 1970-1971 Challenger for an equally clean '70 440-6 Road Runner? I'd much rather spend my time on that.

Kevin McKenna

Doc...

Posted By: ProStDodge

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 09:04 PM

Quote:

Race-Cars setting out in the sun for 2 years. That went out with the Flint-Stones racers years ago.

I looked and looked but did not see Fred flintstone around when I took this picture a few months ago in Georgia (11/01/10). I call it "Off Season Storage"

Attached picture 6432476-P1010293a.JPG

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 09:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Race-Cars setting out in the sun for 2 years. That went out with the Flint-Stones racers years ago.

I looked and looked but did not see Fred flintstone around when I took this picture a few months ago in Georgia (11/01/10). I call it "Off Season Storage"

those are in the shade not the sun

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/22/11 09:24 PM

Looks more like "Retired"(junk)race-cars.

That just does not look like good O'll Southern grass around them "Retired" race cars.

Well at least now we know who Charlie Daniels song "The Devil Went Down To GA" was about!!

Posted By: pro6pakRR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 01:14 AM

When I was a SFI cert inspector I was told that it's the stiching that they worried about.The pushing and pulling on the belt's where they are mounted.

Posted By: GTSDave

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 01:57 AM

Quote:

When I was a SFI cert inspector I was told that it's the stiching that they worried about. The pushing and pulling on the belt's where they are mounted.

I will keep that in mind in April when I throw away this brand new set of belts that are still in the box next to my computer.

I finally had enough last year and did not renew my membership. Not sure if I ever will. I am very torn about it right now.

Some are so fed up with it all that they would rather eat a freshed baked stink pickle from a Labrador than run at an NHRA event. These are folks that have been racing since before I was born.

Every year more and more people are throwing up their hands and giving up. You shouldn't have to take out a second mortgage to bring your wife and 2.5 kids to the track for a weekend.

It doesn't have to be that way. People cant afford to continue with it and are choosing to spend what little money they have for "Fun" stuff elsewhere.

-Dave

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 02:17 AM

Quote:

Doc...

Yeah Chally1 .... a double

at choo ...and you do need

...

You might know a thing or two about Petroluem "Trading"(aka nothing-but-a-FLIPPER) .... but you don't-know-CHIT about the inner workings of the NHRA. And I do. Maybe not as much as KM ... but who can expect him to be direct and open about this situation ?

And you have run-your-mouth on LOTS of other topics .. just like this.

The problem with you here ....as I see it .....

You don't know .....and you DON'T KNOW .. that you don't know.

AKA ... you are totally CLUEless.

Posted By: Prostock

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 03:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Who cares what Tom Compton makes. He is the presdident of a major corporation.

Monte

OH Monte ......NOW it is a major CORPORATION ? ...

And good ole Carl Olson .... when I was an associate and major sponsor I knew him well. And I bugged-him about bogus rules(and the lack of some legit ones) ... that are NOW instituted or changed.

Quote:

Why don't you find out what the president of that organization that owns IHRA makes, bet it's more than Compton.

IHRA is paying taxes, NHRA isn't. Hopefully they are forced to pay back taxes for all of the years that they are found to be non compliant.

Bader and Norwalk sold out for $$$, not because they thought NHRA was better.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 03:27 AM

GO get-em P-burg MUDstain guy ..

Posted By: Prostock

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 03:30 AM

Quote:

Just a thought..If there was no NHRA ...Were ya gonna race?

The really nice IHRA track just east of Pittsburgh.

Seriously, do you think all of those track owners would shut down just because the NHRA went away?

Posted By: Prostock

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 04:58 AM

Quote:

Quote:

When I was a SFI cert inspector I was told that it's the stiching that they worried about. The pushing and pulling on the belt's where they are mounted.

I will keep that in mind in April when I throw away this brand new set of belts that are still in the box next to my computer.

I finally had enough last year and did not renew my membership. Not sure if I ever will. I am very torn about it right now.

Some are so fed up with it all that they would rather eat a freshed baked stink pickle from a Labrador than run at an NHRA event. These are folks that have been racing since before I was born.

Every year more and more people are throwing up their hands and giving up. You shouldn't have to take out a second mortgage to bring your wife and 2.5 kids to the track for a weekend.

It doesn't have to be that way. People cant afford to continue with it and are choosing to spend what little money they have for "Fun" stuff elsewhere.

-Dave

All of what you state above Dave is what will FORCE the NHRA to change, even if the fed don't force it upon them.

Look at the stands now. They are half empty the last I saw, and I can't even say I watched one race in 2010.

I was offered an "all access" pass for free for Reading last year, and declined.

Posted By: Prostock

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 06:16 AM

Quote:

GO get-em P-burg MUDstain guy ..

"MUDstains" run.....boggers well, just bog.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 09:59 AM

The belt,fire suit,helmet regulations are only part of a larger issue that includes the cage certifications which becomes an issue for discussion also.Getting past the incresing cost of all this,what good are they when inspecters only check the dates on the tags or the diameter and thickness of the tubing as well as placement.We see many cars that have all the certifications but built in such a fashion that they are not safe to go down the track.Yet you see them allowed to run with poor welds and fit,lack of welds and gussets,micky mouse steering and suspension componants,fire hazzard wiring and fuel systems and much more.In all my years of racing,I have never seen a tech guy check anything but the tagged items they can see.I have never seen them crawl under a car to check the shields,flexplates or any fastnening points.Even at major races if you hand them the SFI numbers of those unseen parts they let you race.If they were concerned with one's saftey then they should look to correct things that are unsafe that cause issues not just regulate things that can help survive an incident,after all there are others that can be hurt such as spectators and track personel.I know we are getting off track of the original post that NHRA's non-profit is in question but lets get real and try and understand why they are paying theses wild compensations to people with our money when it can be better spent actually making our sport better and safer to all the racers and not just cater to the elite professional classes.I'am a for anything that promotes saftey,I'am just not for increasing our cost just to fill someones pockets.Non-profit my AZZ

Posted By: quick77rt

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 10:10 AM

Just a thought..If there was no NHRA ...Were ya gonna race?

Where it all started in the first place...on the streets.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 10:33 AM

Quote:

Just a thought..If there was no NHRA ...Were ya gonna race?

Where it all started in the first place...on the streets.

Norwalk and other tracks survived many years under IHRA.Many of these tracks flipflop associations to who offers a better deal.Pittsburgh was NHRA for many years when it was Keystone and was a dump.Now IHRA and getting to be one of the nicest tracks around.Beaver Springs is also IHRA and a great race venue.To think that only NHRA provides a race venue is why they got most people by the balls.We need to change our way of thinking and maybe that will get NHRA's attention and change their way of doing business.As I said I'am all for safety but if I'am getting screwed,I want my moneys worth and fill good too.Hookers may cheat a little on their taxes but still pay something.If NHRA can justify that they are a Non-profit organization then great,then there's no problem,that someone has the right to question them is also great.Sometimes things are not the way they appear to be and that we can question them is what make this country(USA) so great also.

Posted By: STEFF

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 02:07 PM

Quote:

At present, compensation is determined by a �personnel committee�, who are likely to be selected and paid by NHRA officials. Based on NHRA�s 2008 tax filings, two of the Association�s executives received compensation well beyond industry standards. Thomas Compton, the Association�s President and Board Member, received $771,632 in total compensation. Dallas Gardner, Chairman of the NHRA Board, received $319,073 for one single hour of work per week. Comparable data indicates that average total compensation paid to CEOs at the ten largest trade associations in the United States was $642,447 in 2006 for full-time positions.

Seems like a pretty good gig to me.............if any of you had the opportunity to have those positions & receive that compensation, you'd do it too. If you say you wouldn't, you're a liar!!

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 04:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

At present, compensation is determined by a �personnel committee�, who are likely to be selected and paid by NHRA officials. Based on NHRA�s 2008 tax filings, two of the Association�s executives received compensation well beyond industry standards. Thomas Compton, the Association�s President and Board Member, received $771,632 in total compensation. Dallas Gardner, Chairman of the NHRA Board, received $319,073 for one single hour of work per week. Comparable data indicates that average total compensation paid to CEOs at the ten largest trade associations in the United States was $642,447 in 2006 for full-time positions.

Seems like a pretty good gig to me.............if any of you had the opportunity to have those positions & receive that compensation, you'd do it too. If you say you wouldn't, you're a liar!!

Just because they can do it and get away with it dosen't make it right.If they earned it great,but to do it at the expense of someones' hard earned money like the envestment scams,improper banking and other illegal scams,then like those people they should be held accountable.If someone pays you big numbers with others money and you accept it you are just as guilty.That they are a non-proft organization the the money belongs to those who contribute and should be used for their benifit such as saftey and events no to line any few peoples pockets.Seem like we have a few more Bernie Madoffs but on a smaller scale.

Posted By: 11secdart

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 05:59 PM

B.G. hit the nail on the head!

Posted By: bonefish

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 09:59 PM

the IRS is the most corupt and lawless organization on earth,if they want em they will get em right or wrong.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/23/11 10:29 PM

Quote:

the IRS is the most corupt and lawless organization on earth,if they want em they will get em right or wrong.

best post yet

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/24/11 03:11 PM

Quote:

Most of the people that complain about the NHRA, have no legitimate beef, or even know why they are complaining. It is just that "blood in the water" mentality, that makes everyone want to pile on.

This seatbelt rule that you guys get so bent out of shape about, is NOT an NHRA rule. It is a rule set forth by the SFI foundation and NHRA chooses to recognize SFI as the governing body, concerning safety rules. Other orgs, such as the NTPA, IHBA, Nascar and many others also follow SFI guidelines.

Then, the contingency comments are just laughable. Unless you work for a company, that actually pays contingency, or have worked with a race org, then I can just about guarantee, that you have no clue how it works............but the comments like "the contingency sponsors pay off the NHRA, so that rules are changed and we have to continue to buy their products to race"......what?????? Somebody watches too many episodes of "Conspiracy Theory".

Whether you hate NHRA or not, to claim that the sport would be better off without them and hope for their demise, is VERY shortsighted...to put it mildly.

Monte

Exactly. It's easy to tell the real racers from the pretenders around here.

Posted By: camastomcat

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/24/11 05:22 PM

The NHRA needs to get a clue and fire the top people, but I wouldn't want to see them go away. They might though after this.

Posted By: GTSDave

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/24/11 05:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Whether you hate NHRA or not, to claim that the sport would be better off without them and hope for their demise, is VERY shortsighted...to put it mildly.

Monte

Exactly. It's easy to tell the real racers from the pretenders around here.

I don't hate NHRA or want to see them go away. I want to see some sanity return with inspectors that do more than just check date codes.

Some people tear up/ wear out their equipment and probably need things like belts changed more often than two years. Others that don't, should be able to run longer on them.

Likewise with fire suits. How many times have you seen someone wearing one that is 2 sizes too small, or that looked like they used it mop up an oil spill.

Why should they be allowed to run even if their tag isn't expired?

It cuts both ways, but without inspectors that are trained and actually do more than check dates, all we end up doing is throwing money away with these blanket policies.

-Dave

Posted By: @#$%&*!

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/24/11 07:01 PM

Quote:

Exactly. It's easy to tell the real racers from the pretenders around here.

Okay, I got it: REAL racers LOVE the NHRA.

The truth is that the nhra has been converted from a membership organization to a sports marketing corporation. Members have no say in how things are run and a few top individuals laugh all the way to the bank. There is a better way.

Posted By: Boosted

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/24/11 08:33 PM

Quote:

so eventually when they arent a "non profit" company, they'll raise the prices of everything, you think its bad now with all the complaining of certs and 2 year belt replacements, entry fees blah blah and all the stuff NOW... imagine when they have people to answer to.

Just say no to them... If enough people walk away they will change...

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/24/11 09:27 PM

Quote:

Exactly. It's easy to tell the real racers from the pretenders around here.

your perspicacity is formidable. we are fortunate to be in your presence.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/24/11 09:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Doc...

Yeah Chally1 .... a double at choo ...and you do need ...

You might know a thing or two about Petroluem "Trading"(aka nothing-but-a-FLIPPER) .... but you don't-know-CHIT about the inner workings of the NHRA. And I do. Maybe not as much as KM ... but who can expect him to be direct and open about this situation ?

And you have run-your-mouth on LOTS of other topics .. just like this.

The problem with you here ....as I see it .....

You don't know .....and you DON'T KNOW .. that you don't know.

AKA ... you are totally CLUEless.

I can't be too clueless because I figured out a way to race, and race 1st class.

I raced with the NHRA on the tour for 8 years. Held a advanced ET license before that.

What about you??

Posted By: @#$%&*!

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/24/11 10:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Exactly. It's easy to tell the real racers from the pretenders around here.

your perspicacity is formidable. we are fortunate to be in your presence.

Don't make me get out my dictionary

Posted By: jamesc

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/24/11 11:59 PM

Quote:

Exactly. It's easy to tell the real racers from the pretenders around here.

Bob, not trying to be a smarta$$ but define "real racers". does this mean if you're not running a six or seven figure program you're not a real racer? i beg to differ if that's the case. NHRA has been breaking the back of sportsman racers for years. i openly admit that i'm a hypocrite because i don't feel it's appropriate to complain about something unless you're prepared to offer a solution and frankly i'm not sure what can be done. NHRA is a business plain and simple not a nonprofit organization. you can't tell me that compton and gardner should be pulling down the type of money they are for their roles in the operation of this "nonprofit" organization. as for SFI and all that, yes having some safety guidelines is a good and necessary thing no doubt but exactly where does it end. racing is a inherently dangerous undertaking both for participants and spectators. everyone needs to understand and accept this fact. if you really want to make racing safe just make it a video game. if nhra was all about safety the wouldn't have PS bikes and this is coming from someone that has won a championship on bikes. personally i'm not sure exactly what it is that nhra does for the sportsman racers. i "think" there are insurance benefits for the tracks that are NHRA but not certain. personally i could care less about "professional" racing as imho it has become a dog and pony show a long time ago just like nascar. nhra has forgotten where it came from and who pays the bills. do i want to see nhra disbanded, no, do i want to see it being run with racers at the forefront of it's concerns, yes. it is a complicated set of problems facing both nhra and racing as a whole not the least of which is the absolutely out of control litigious society we have become. there are many good arguments on both sides of this situation but imho overall nhra is not being run in the spirit it was originally founded on and for myself that is the biggest issue i take with them.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 12:10 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Doc...

Yeah Chally1 .... a double at choo ...and you do need ...

You might know a thing or two about Petroluem "Trading"(aka nothing-but-a-FLIPPER) .... but you don't-know-CHIT about the inner workings of the NHRA. And I do. Maybe not as much as KM ... but who can expect him to be direct and open about this situation ?

And you have run-your-mouth on LOTS of other topics .. just like this.

The problem with you here ....as I see it .....

You don't know .....and you DON'T KNOW .. that you don't know.

AKA ... you are totally CLUEless.

I can't be too clueless because I figured out a way to race, and race 1st class.

I raced with the NHRA on the tour for 8 years. Held a advanced ET license before that.

What about you??

at you ....

What does holding an advanced ET license have to do with what is being discussed here.

And ME ? ...I was a associate and major sponsor with NHRA for many, MANY years(LOTS longer than you were "on tour") and have lots more direct experience with the inner-workings of NHRA than you do.

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 12:19 AM

Quote:

And ME ? ...I was a associate and major sponsor with NHRA for many, MANY years and have lots more direct experience with the inner-workings of NHRA than you do.

yes, it is obvious by your eloquent and concise responses that you have been, and most likely still are a card carrying member of the nhra cognoscenti. a associate (sic).

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 12:29 AM

Quote:

yes, it is obvious by your eloquent and concise responses that you have been, and most likely still are a card carrying member of the nhra cognoscenti. a associate (sic).

Not hardly ..... I bailed-out of the NHRA in the late 80's ...as did many other people.

WE were not treated much better than the typical sportsman racer.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 12:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

yes, it is obvious by your eloquent and concise responses that you have been, and most likely still are a card carrying member of the nhra cognoscenti. a associate (sic).

Not hardly ..... I bailed-out of the NHRA in the late 80's ...as did many other people.

WE were not treated much better than the typical sportsman racer.

I don't have a problem with the NHRA, if you decide to race, don't complain about the cost or the competition. It's a dog eat dog world out there especially in racing. Who cares how your treated?
Racing about winning not a social thing.
The 80s huh? Wasn't that like a long time ago?? lol

Just because you were a sponsor don't make you chitt. Go do it and then tell me about it.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 04:30 AM

Quote:

Just because you were a sponsor don't make you chitt. Go do it and then tell me about it.

It makes me MORE IN THE KNOW than you .... you proPAIN gas-flipper

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 04:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

yes, it is obvious by your eloquent and concise responses that you have been, and most likely still are a card carrying member of the nhra cognoscenti. a associate (sic).

Not hardly ..... I bailed-out of the NHRA in the late 80's ...as did many other people.

WE were not treated much better than the typical sportsman racer.

I don't have a problem with the NHRA, if you decide to race, don't complain about the cost or the competition. It's a dog eat dog world out there especially in racing. Who cares how your treated?
Racing about winning not a social thing.
The 80s huh? Wasn't that like a long time ago?? lol

Just because you were a sponsor don't make you chitt. Go do it and then tell me about it.

Can you 2 knock it off

by the way I do care how I'm treated

now BOTH of you.... knock it off
thank you

Posted By: mopacltd

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 05:44 AM

Cuts in salaries, ad budget help NHRA withstand revenue drop of more than 10 percent
By Tripp Mickle

Staff Writer

Published January 10, 2011, Page 4
Font Size Resize Small Resize Normal Resize Large | Print | Share A series of belt-tightening measures taken by the NHRA prior to the 2009 season helped the series weather a 10.6 percent decrease in revenue, according to the association�s most recent tax filing.

The filing shows that the NHRA trimmed expenses by 10.2 percent to $108.3 million during the 2009 season when the recession derailed economic growth. The association cut employee compensation by 10.2 percent to $17.7 million and reduced its advertising budget by 8.3 percent to $22 million.

The expense reductions helped limit the NHRA�s losses in 2009. The organization had a net loss that year of $643,924. That compared to a net profit in 2008 of $1.9 million.

NHRA President Tom Compton said the organization�s 2009 spending cuts were made in the midst of the 2008 credit crisis. As the crisis began, he said the NHRA reduced 401(k) matches for employees, renegotiated vendor agreements, switched from Ticketmaster to ExtremeTix, cut back on travel and laid off some staff.

Executive compensation and salaries also were reduced from $2.3 million in 2008 to $2.1 million in 2009. Compton saw his total compensation decrease 9.1 percent to $701,257, and executive vice president and general manager Peter Clifford�s fell 10.4 percent to $382,983.
KRISTINA PAUMEN / LIMELIGHT PHOTOGRAPHY
NHRA President Tom Compton said 2009 spending cuts were made amid the 2008 credit crisis.

�We knew we would feel the effects [of the recession in 2009], so we wanted to stay in front of it,� Compton said. �We�re glad we were proactive.�

The NHRA generated $107.7 million in total revenue in 2009, down from $122.9 million in 2008. The biggest revenue decreases were in the area of sponsorship and ticket sales, which fell by 15.8 percent and 9.7 percent, respectively.

In 2009, sponsorship and advertising revenue totaled $41.1 million and ticket revenue totaled $43.9 million. Those decreases were driven by the loss of several key partners that year, including Budweiser and General Motors, and cuts in general admission ticket prices that were designed to offer fans relief.

Compton said the NHRA bounced back in 2010 and is optimistic about 2011. The association has restored employee and management salaries and increased its 401(k) match by 1 percent. Advance ticket sales are improving and sponsorship conversations have increased.

�We feel really good now about how we weathered the storm for two reasons,� Compton said. �The interest level is strong and there are a lot more companies we�re talking to today, and we had quite a few races see attendance increases. All of that�s encouraging.�
__________________
Jack McCarthy 3609 STK
"the Captain"

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 05:49 AM

Quote:

Compton saw his total compensation decrease 9.1 percent to $701,257, and executive vice president and general manager Peter Clifford�s fell 10.4 percent to $382,983.

Ahhh ......geese ....I guess Compton will now have to apply for food-stamps ....

Posted By: robnbird

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 06:26 AM

Maby John Force can round up a cousin or two to race in one of his other new team; or maby he could have 14 teams. now that would make the crowds fill the stands. Kind of like the circus came to town. And if you have seen one 16 field of Pro stock cars you have seen them all. Wait who will win the pro stock championship in 2011. Well suprise its another GM car. That because GM draws more fans than ford or chry. So we make the toyotas pro stockers now and in just one year they will have the winning combo. Kinda like nicecar. people are gullible they will trust you to be fair. Not kknowing the rules are designed to draw the most fans.

What am I saying ? Cheating going on, no way.

Posted By: bill_greenwood

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 07:36 AM

BG and a couple of others are getting a lot closer to the heart of this matter, and that's the direction of NHRA vs.the needs of the sport and the racers.
I've been unable for years to grasp NHRA's marketing and game plan. As I've pointed out here and elsewhere, NHRA seems intent of ignoring the gearhead core in order to gain non-automotive related "butts in the seats". When my sister worked at a travel agency some 20 years ago, fore example, she asked me what it was that all these people went to down in California at the Winternationals? I flew down one time on a plane where half the passengers were going to the Winters'. Yet, even then it was getting to the point where it seemed NHRA was more interested in cultivating a a fan base consisting of those who wouldn't know a crank from a cam if you dropped it on their foot.
Unfortunately, this (I believe) has a net effect of alienating the very fan base it needs to survive. Think about it. Which group of people are going to keep your sport alive- the guy who puts hundreds or thousands of dollars a year into his race car, and in the dead of winter hops on a plane or flogs his five year-old pick-up halfway across the country so he can get his fix of racing action, or the guy who's scanning the Sunday morning paper trying to decide if he wants to go to the ball game or check out this drag racing thing? Unfortunately, NHRA has been catering to the latter.
Some of the fixes are easy. Quit dumbing things down for the non-racing spectators. Handicap racing doesn't need to be explained every time. Move more S/S and Stock racing to Saturday and Sunday of the national events. Maybe it's time regular bracket racers were brought into the show, with a modest cut-off. Say 12.99? I've said it before and I'll say it again- take every throttle stop in the world and throw them in the ocean. Throttle stop racing is abhorrent to watch. Absolutely abhorrent. Before you respond, remember that part of this is opinion on how to get actual race fans through the gates and into the seats. I'm not only an actual racer, I believe I represent a fairly typical "knowledgeable" spectator.
As far as the pro's go, that's a big issue with few easy fixes. Oil downs are a killer, the shrinking number of pro teams worrisome, and quite frankly the evolution of pro stock (I think) has taken a wrong turn and needs to be re-thunk.
As far as executive compensation, I've often believed that the salaries of executives of non-profit organizations should be tied to some fixed ratio to the average family income, for example. (For the record- I believe this should apply to all legislators as well)
I do believe this, however: Just as NHRA can't exist without the small time racers such as myself and many here on this board, we also need the pro side of the sport in order for track owners and the sport in general to survive. I firmly believe that NHRA has completely lost touch with its grass roots, and needs a thoughtful and thorough soul-searching of the kind that only a "crisis" such as this can bring on. Does it need new leadership? Undoubtedly (and unfortunately) the answer is "yes". The current directors and executives seem far more intent on issues such as "image" and "brand" than on thew things that are important to the men and women who live and breath this sport at the grass roots level. Ignore your grass, and pretty soon you won't have a lawn. Or anything for your cows to munch on. 'Nuff said?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 12:28 PM

Quote:

BG and a couple of others are getting a lot closer to the heart of this matter, and that's the direction of NHRA vs.the needs of the sport and the racers.
I've been unable for years to grasp NHRA's marketing and game plan. As I've pointed out here and elsewhere, NHRA seems intent of ignoring the gearhead core in order to gain non-automotive related "butts in the seats". When my sister worked at a travel agency some 20 years ago, fore example, she asked me what it was that all these people went to down in California at the Winternationals? I flew down one time on a plane where half the passengers were going to the Winters'. Yet, even then it was getting to the point where it seemed NHRA was more interested in cultivating a a fan base consisting of those who wouldn't know a crank from a cam if you dropped it on their foot.
Unfortunately, this (I believe) has a net effect of alienating the very fan base it needs to survive. Think about it. Which group of people are going to keep your sport alive- the guy who puts hundreds or thousands of dollars a year into his race car, and in the dead of winter hops on a plane or flogs his five year-old pick-up halfway across the country so he can get his fix of racing action, or the guy who's scanning the Sunday morning paper trying to decide if he wants to go to the ball game or check out this drag racing thing? Unfortunately, NHRA has been catering to the latter.
Some of the fixes are easy. Quit dumbing things down for the non-racing spectators. Handicap racing doesn't need to be explained every time. Move more S/S and Stock racing to Saturday and Sunday of the national events. Maybe it's time regular bracket racers were brought into the show, with a modest cut-off. Say 12.99? I've said it before and I'll say it again- take every throttle stop in the world and throw them in the ocean. Throttle stop racing is abhorrent to watch. Absolutely abhorrent. Before you respond, remember that part of this is opinion on how to get actual race fans through the gates and into the seats. I'm not only an actual racer, I believe I represent a fairly typical "knowledgeable" spectator.
As far as the pro's go, that's a big issue with few easy fixes. Oil downs are a killer, the shrinking number of pro teams worrisome, and quite frankly the evolution of pro stock (I think) has taken a wrong turn and needs to be re-thunk.
As far as executive compensation, I've often believed that the salaries of executives of non-profit organizations should be tied to some fixed ratio to the average family income, for example. (For the record- I believe this should apply to all legislators as well)
I do believe this, however: Just as NHRA can't exist without the small time racers such as myself and many here on this board, we also need the pro side of the sport in order for track owners and the sport in general to survive. I firmly believe that NHRA has completely lost touch with its grass roots, and needs a thoughtful and thorough soul-searching of the kind that only a "crisis" such as this can bring on. Does it need new leadership? Undoubtedly (and unfortunately) the answer is "yes". The current directors and executives seem far more intent on issues such as "image" and "brand" than on thew things that are important to the men and women who live and breath this sport at the grass roots level. Ignore your grass, and pretty soon you won't have a lawn. Or anything for your cows to munch on. 'Nuff said?

Part of the issue is.... we have a different kind
of gear head now days... most young guys dont know
what a carb looks like let along work on one... the
young generation is a computer geek that plays video
games(not saying all) but when they go to the track
(if they do) they dont relate to the engines...
all of them have carbs and dont use a computer to
tune them(yes there are some but not the pro stuff)
this is just my opinion but maybe NHRA should open
up to the modern stuff more... and of course lower
the price tag to get in... the rest of the country
took pay cuts so why not them..... again..... JMO

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 03:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Exactly. It's easy to tell the real racers from the pretenders around here.

Okay, I got it: REAL racers LOVE the NHRA.

The truth is that the nhra has been converted from a membership organization to a sports marketing corporation. Members have no say in how things are run and a few top individuals laugh all the way to the bank. There is a better way.

I'm a member. If it weren't for the NHRA continuing to raise the bar we'd all be racing on junk track surfaces. The IHRA are NHRA junior league wannabees. Nuff said.

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 03:27 PM

Quote:

If you are involved in drag racing on any level, you should be glad NHRA exists, warts and all. And government interference is that last thing you would want. We know what happens when they get involved in something. Don't you think a strong organization, that provides rules and guidelines that are consistent across the country, is beneficial? Do you think the tree, the track, the classes, the rules, being different at every track would be a good thing?
Any discussion about NHRA always comes back to the seat belt rule. How long has this been in effect? Aren't we over it yet? Do you know why that rule came to be? Do some research. When anyone complains about the seat belt rule, I stop paying attention. It's old...really. Find something important to gripe about, like why they took M*A*S*H off the air.
Safety rules are driven by the insurance companies and the lawyers. If it were not possible to obtain insurance, racing as we know would cease to exist. Simple as that.
Like I've said before, they have plenty of room to improve in many areas. But they are the reason drag racing is where it is today.

Yep. The 70 dollar seatbelt rule is the main [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]. Unbelievable. I spend twice that much per race on ice for my inner cooler.

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 03:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Doug(plasticfantastic) is my driver and I do what ever it takes to
keep him safe.... BUT I really dont buy into the
2 year seat belt thing.... lets say you get out
10 times a year... thats 20 days of racing and the
belts are shot... to me that should be up to the
inspection guys at the track... if they arent frayed
they should be fine for a 5 year period... as for the
non profit... I dont buy that... my opinion if you
want your company as non profit there should be laws
saying NO ONE can make more than 200K in that company
.......JMO

Wondering if it's more a UV ray issue which we can't see the damage done aside from fading. Car sitting outside for 2 years baking in the sun could in theory rot the belts; especially in desert southwest. Suspect 2 years is to CYA everyone. I'm in the aviation industry and we "time change" a multitude of parts that are perfectly serviceable all in the interest of public safety. The intent is to change or overhaul the parts before they enter a known window of potential failure. Over time (often in terms of years), these requirements are either shortened or lengthened as data is collected.

P.S. we do NOT change seat belts every 2 years on the aircraft i've worked on (visual inspection only)

That's exactly what it is aand if someone ever got killed because his belts were compromised the lawsuit would cost a bunch. It's 70 bucks every two years. That's 10 cents per day.

Posted By: bwdst6

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 03:32 PM

Quote:

Yep. The 70 dollar seatbelt rule is the main [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]. Unbelievable. I spend twice that much per race on ice for my inner cooler.

Must be nice to have that kind of cash!

Posted By: Hemi Joe 4911

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 03:43 PM

I believe Monte and Chapper feel that we are only commenting about NHRA because of the blood in the water as they wish to call it, actually this subject about NHRA is long over due, you certainly can't express your opinions at the NHRA track or in the Dragster. As we all know NHRA runs this program with a Chicago Style Political Attitude, and they are always right! I have been aroung drag racing since the late 50's and early 60's I will admitt, I don't know it all, but I do know a lot. I'am not of the thinking that NHRA should go out of business, however they must get back to reality, and if they owe taxes then they should pay them, my opinion they should have been paying them for years, and the President of NHRA should not be making more $$ than the President of The United States! As for safety they are out of control, especialy on the seat belt issue, give us 4 years instead of the two years, but let the tech people check them for tears, dry rot ect. If the military only changes fight jets every 5 years, you can't convince me that this is not a money grab. Monte and Chapper called my comment on payoffs a conspiracy theory, its like Jesse says FOLLOW THE MONEY! I'am not stupid, I am a retired salesman after 45 years, I know how the system works, as an example, I called on GM-Ford_and Chrysler in Detroit. Never did GM, or Chrysler purchasing agents want a kick-back, however we were at Ford Motor Company going over a quote on $100,000.00 hydraulic press for their Brookpark, Ohio plant when their purchasing agent interupted the pruposal to let us know his TV wasn't working well and then he gave us his business card with his HOME ADDRESS on it so we could ship his a new TV. We did not do it and when I called him the following week to check on our quote he told me it went into the waste can! As another example I had a friend here in Ohio whose son was up on charges of stealing newspaper boxes, the DA came to their home the night before the trial and said if my friend would give him $10,000 in cash the case would go away and it would be over, my friend could not do it and his son went away for 2 years, so if you don't believe this stuff does not go on, then you have inhaled too many nitro fumes. Back to NHRA selective safety issues. Remember I believe it was last year when they interviewed Warren Johnson about the track being unsafe, and he said that they only care about Top Fuel and Funny Car, and when the Pro Stock Drivers said they would not race because the track was unsafe and in CHICAGO STYLE form Graham Light told them that two cars had altready gone down and if the rest of the guys would not go down then the class had its winner and runner-up and they call this safety. I use to be the guy who would break all the speeding laws so I could get home from racing so that I could watch an NHRA event on tv, but after the John Force/Robert Height deal last year it turned my stomach, it was best said by another Moparts Member awhile back, a 20 year John Force Fan lost in 5 seconds, even Mike Dunn was amazed at that deal, and I am so tired of watching one lane race tracks, and they wonder why the stands are only two-thirds full. I don't want NHRA to go away but I do want them to improve and for them constantly raising prices this sucks, I have been an NHRA member for ages, I would give it up tomorrow, however they have you by the short hairs, because to race at an NHRA track where you need a license, you must be a member, once again Chicago Style. As for the comment about Norwalk leaving IHRA to join NHRA, it was a business decision I would believe with better press coverage and exposure, it has always been a great facility, we race their and I really can't see the difference, great traction, great race surface, great people,great restrooms,the Bader Family are are the same Class Act as they were when it was IHRA and the ice cream is dam good. I would hope NHRA would feel most of our comments were constructive critism, my personal belief is, it won't faze them at all because they are ALWAYS RIGHT - REMEMBER CHICAGO STYLE. For their sake they should tell the TV cameras not to scan the stands so people at home won't see how empty they are, the same as NASCAR. I feel better now!

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 03:49 PM

What's the name and phone number of that company that sells the dragster cam lock belts for $70.00? THANKS!!!!!

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 04:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Exactly. It's easy to tell the real racers from the pretenders around here.

your perspicacity is formidable. we are fortunate to be in your presence.

See guys like you all of the time. Pay the 70 bucks or get another hobby.

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 04:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Exactly. It's easy to tell the real racers from the pretenders around here.

Bob, not trying to be a smarta$$ but define "real racers". does this mean if you're not running a six or seven figure program you're not a real racer? i beg to differ if that's the case. NHRA has been breaking the back of sportsman racers for years. i openly admit that i'm a hypocrite because i don't feel it's appropriate to complain about something unless you're prepared to offer a solution and frankly i'm not sure what can be done. NHRA is a business plain and simple not a nonprofit organization. you can't tell me that compton and gardner should be pulling down the type of money they are for their roles in the operation of this "nonprofit" organization. as for SFI and all that, yes having some safety guidelines is a good and necessary thing no doubt but exactly where does it end. racing is a inherently dangerous undertaking both for participants and spectators. everyone needs to understand and accept this fact. if you really want to make racing safe just make it a video game. if nhra was all about safety the wouldn't have PS bikes and this is coming from someone that has won a championship on bikes. personally i'm not sure exactly what it is that nhra does for the sportsman racers. i "think" there are insurance benefits for the tracks that are NHRA but not certain. personally i could care less about "professional" racing as imho it has become a dog and pony show a long time ago just like nascar. nhra has forgotten where it came from and who pays the bills. do i want to see nhra disbanded, no, do i want to see it being run with racers at the forefront of it's concerns, yes. it is a complicated set of problems facing both nhra and racing as a whole not the least of which is the absolutely out of control litigious society we have become. there are many good arguments on both sides of this situation but imho overall nhra is not being run in the spirit it was originally founded on and for myself that is the biggest issue i take with them.

James,
Sorry for the blanket comment as I know you and some others are real racers that have differences with the NHRA other than belt certs. I respect anything you have to say. My comment was geared towards the others who just like to complain.

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 04:09 PM

Quote:

What's the name and phone number of that company that sells the dragster cam lock belts for $70.00? THANKS!!!!!

I know you can send them back to the manufacturer and have them recerted for about that. You can get the basic kind for about 70 bucks.

Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 04:11 PM

Quote:

I believe Monte and Chapper feel that we are only commenting about NHRA because of the blood in the water as they wish to call it, actually this subject about NHRA is long over due, you certainly can't express your opinions at the NHRA track or in the Dragster. As we all know NHRA runs this program with a Chicago Style Political Attitude, and they are always right! I have been aroung drag racing since the late 50's and early 60's I will admitt, I don't know it all, but I do know a lot. I'am not of the thinking that NHRA should go out of business, however they must get back to reality, and if they owe taxes then they should pay them, my opinion they should have been paying them for years, and the President of NHRA should not be making more $$ than the President of The United States! As for safety they are out of control, especialy on the seat belt issue, give us 4 years instead of the two years, but let the tech people check them for tears, dry rot ect. If the military only changes fight jets every 5 years, you can't convince me that this is not a money grab. Monte and Chapper called my comment on payoffs a conspiracy theory, its like Jesse says FOLLOW THE MONEY! I'am not stupid, I am a retired salesman after 45 years, I know how the system works, as an example, I called on GM-Ford_and Chrysler in Detroit. Never did GM, or Chrysler purchasing agents want a kick-back, however we were at Ford Motor Company going over a quote on $100,000.00 hydraulic press for their Brookpark, Ohio plant when their purchasing agent interupted the pruposal to let us know his TV wasn't working well and then he gave us his business card with his HOME ADDRESS on it so we could ship his a new TV. We did not do it and when I called him the following week to check on our quote he told me it went into the waste can! As another example I had a friend here in Ohio whose son was up on charges of stealing newspaper boxes, the DA came to their home the night before the trial and said if my friend would give him $10,000 in cash the case would go away and it would be over, my friend could not do it and his son went away for 2 years, so if you don't believe this stuff does not go on, then you have inhaled too many nitro fumes. Back to NHRA selective safety issues. Remember I believe it was last year when they interviewed Warren Johnson about the track being unsafe, and he said that they only care about Top Fuel and Funny Car, and when the Pro Stock Drivers said they would not race because the track was unsafe and in CHICAGO STYLE form Graham Light told them that two cars had altready gone down and if the rest of the guys would not go down then the class had its winner and runner-up and they call this safety. I use to be the guy who would break all the speeding laws so I could get home from racing so that I could watch an NHRA event on tv, but after the John Force/Robert Height deal last year it turned my stomach, it was best said by another Moparts Member awhile back, a 20 year John Force Fan lost in 5 seconds, even Mike Dunn was amazed at that deal, and I am so tired of watching one lane race tracks, and they wonder why the stands are only two-thirds full. I don't want NHRA to go away but I do want them to improve and for them constantly raising prices this sucks, I have been an NHRA member for ages, I would give it up tomorrow, however they have you by the short hairs, because to race at an NHRA track where you need a license, you must be a member, once again Chicago Style. As for the comment about Norwalk leaving IHRA to join NHRA, it was a business decision I would believe with better press coverage and exposure, it has always been a great facility, we race their and I really can't see the difference, great traction, great race surface, great people,great restrooms,the Bader Family are are the same Class Act as they were when it was IHRA and the ice cream is dam good. I would hope NHRA would feel most of our comments were constructive critism, my personal belief is, it won't faze them at all because they are ALWAYS RIGHT - REMEMBER CHICAGO STYLE. For their sake they should tell the TV cameras not to scan the stands so people at home won't see how empty they are, the same as NASCAR. I feel better now!

Hemi Joe,,,,somewhere along this thread, you mis-read my comments.
I DO believe that there are some pay offs going on in NHRA!!
I still say, the contingency money some manufactures post is a pay off for rule changes. I mean this by example: Once a person builds a race car with all the safety equipment installed,,he is basically DONE buying safety equipment. UNLESS,,,the sanctioning bodies' rules require replacement at certain intervals. SO,,my theory is,, the belt, helmet, all safety equipment manufactures say they will donate to the "contingency" program. I look for a new rule soon. NO SAFETY EQUIPMENT WILL BE ALLOWED THAT DOESN'T PAY CONTINGECY MONIES.
I realize some of the thoughts/comments on here are getting away from the original thread topic/subject. I have ALWAYS felt NHRA was getting a massive tax break with their IRS classification as "non profit". I wonder if NASCAR, IHRA is watching this?? So, don't confuse me with an NHRA supporter. I would rather have a prostitute sister than a brother on NHRA staff!!

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 04:33 PM

We need to get us up a Moparts group buy on them $70.00 belts as soon as we get a address & phone number. We might could get free hats and shipping if we get up enought buyers.

The only thing that would beat those prices is if maybe they would sponsor some us Moparts Racers with some free ones to get thier

name out!!!!!

Posted By: MegaDart

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 04:34 PM

Quote:

What's the name and phone number of that company that sells the dragster cam lock belts for $70.00? THANKS!!!!!

RJS camlocks from Summit pro shop are not much more then that...

This will be the first time in 12+ years I do not renew my NHRA advanced et license. It has just gotten too expensive to maintain With the chassis certs, SFI recerts/updates and yearly dues including physicals it was approx. $500 per year. For what?? A magazine I throw in the trash and the ability to run a div/nat event. Thank God I am a lowly bracket racer and can do without. I did chose to "maintain" my IHRA adv. et license as it is less then 1/2 the cost and is much more fun. They run each race start to finish in one day, imagine that!

It is WAY more then a seatbelt issue, at least for me. I had to pay to take a perfectly good Dedenbaer case powerglide apart, send it all the way across the country at my expense, ship back and reassemble because the little SFI sticker expired?? You tell me what wears on a transmission case making them a safety issue??
Two weeks before the start of Div2 races we were informed that an additional driveshaft loop no more then 6" in front of 3rd member would be required on all TS cars!! Oh isn't that nice.
And that they require a /15 jacket for all TS and TD competitors regardless of ET. I only need a /5 jacket to run 7.50 but I need a /15 in a 7.99 in TS?? can you see the double standard.
those are just some of the straws that broke this camels back...

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 05:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Exactly. It's easy to tell the real racers from the pretenders around here.

your perspicacity is formidable. we are fortunate to be in your presence.

See guys like you all of the time. Pay the 70 bucks or get another hobby.

suppose you tell me what kind of guy i am?

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 06:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Exactly. It's easy to tell the real racers from the pretenders around here.

your perspicacity is formidable. we are fortunate to be in your presence.

See guys like you all of the time. Pay the 70 bucks or get another hobby.

suppose you tell me what kind of guy i am?

The kind that argue about paying 70 bucks every two years as part of the cost or racing. Real racers just write the check. Don't mean to step on anyone's toes but that's the way it is with the guys who visit my trailer.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 06:07 PM

So having manufactures in on the decision as to what SFI decides to require is a good thing?

I was testing converters at Warner Robbins with TCI back when Bill Taylor owned the company. TCI employees told me that shortly I would have to get a certified flex plat and a flex-plate shield with the adoption of a new rule. Seems that flex plates were coming apart and NHRA wanted to do something about the problem. SFI contacted TCI who sent them a flexplate and shield that they sold at the time. TCI was informed that SFI decided that both were necessary to be installed on the car.

It was a win win solution for SFI and TCI. Why sell one tag when you can require two and double the income. TCI was surprised that they required both but didn't care since that would also double their sales. The stupid part was requiring the re certifying period for a hunk of aluminum. You can look at the part and tell if it has been modified or abused.

Plus NHRA gets advertising income in the Dragster and TCI posts contingency. And who gets the money if the contingency posting isn't awarded to the racer, NHRA. Who needs kickbacks when the system does it for you.

Hopefully the powers at be finally broke their golden egg.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 06:15 PM

Bob,If you don't show us a picture of your trailer,we won't know where to come too.

I have paided my entry fee by check before hoping to win enought money to cover the check.

That's the "Truth".
I'm a Racer and I'm gonna do what ever it takes to race

I'll try & post a picture of my trailer so people can come to my trailer,after all Fair is Fair!!!!

Attached picture 6437733-101tp.jpg.jpg

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 06:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Exactly. It's easy to tell the real racers from the pretenders around here.

your perspicacity is formidable. we are fortunate to be in your presence.

See guys like you all of the time. Pay the 70 bucks or get another hobby.

suppose you tell me what kind of guy i am?

The kind that argue about paying 70 bucks every two years as part of the cost or racing. Real racers just write the check. Don't mean to step on anyone's toes but that's the way it is with the guys who visit my trailer.

i'm getting old. i'm trying to remember when i complained about the seatbelt thing. i'm sure i did. i know i complained about the dipstick tube b.s.. that was the "straw". i guess i'm not a "real" racer, like you. this family man can't quite justify the expenditure anymore. fwiw, i'd rather be a "real" father/husband, than a "real" racer like you. i'm solely responsible for my racing endeavors. i build the engines, the transmissions, the rear ends. i built the cage. i tubbed it. i do the wiring. i pay for fuel. entry fees. nhra "membership". oil. tires. when something breaks, i pay for it. everything. sponsorship? i got a set of tires once. sounds like a "real" racer, doesn't it?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 06:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Exactly. It's easy to tell the real racers from the pretenders around here.

your perspicacity is formidable. we are fortunate to be in your presence.

See guys like you all of the time. Pay the 70 bucks or get another hobby.

suppose you tell me what kind of guy i am?

The kind that argue about paying 70 bucks every two years as part of the cost or racing. Real racers just write the check. Don't mean to step on anyone's toes but that's the way it is with the guys who visit my trailer.

I have no beef with the NHRA... when I tried to renew
my license this last time they bent over backwards
to get me a license... they told me to try and find
another doctor that would sign me off... when I told
them I tried 3 already they said keep looking...
other than a few dumb rules which one is the belt
thing they are ok (to a extent)... and because I
dont like the seat belt rule I guess I'm not a real
racer... oh well... I guess just guys with the big
dollar budgets and big dollar cars are the only real
racers

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 07:04 PM

Quote:

Bob,If you don't show us a picture of your trailer,we won't know where to come too. I have paided my entry fee by check before hoping to win enought money to cover the check. That's the "Truth".
I'm a Racer and I'm gonna do what ever it takes to race

I'll try & post a picture of my trailer so people can come to my trailer,after all Fair is Fair!!!!

I can respect that. I race out west. If you are ever out here find the trailer for Sikora Raacing Outlaw 10.5 car. Ask for Bob. I will give you 70 bucks. This goes for you alone.

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 07:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Exactly. It's easy to tell the real racers from the pretenders around here.

your perspicacity is formidable. we are fortunate to be in your presence.

See guys like you all of the time. Pay the 70 bucks or get another hobby.

suppose you tell me what kind of guy i am?

The kind that argue about paying 70 bucks every two years as part of the cost or racing. Real racers just write the check. Don't mean to step on anyone's toes but that's the way it is with the guys who visit my trailer.

i'm getting old. i'm trying to remember when i complained about the seatbelt thing. i'm sure i did. i know i complained about the dipstick tube b.s.. that was the "straw". i guess i'm not a "real" racer, like you. this family man can't quite justify the expenditure anymore. fwiw, i'd rather be a "real" father/husband, than a "real" racer like you. i'm solely responsible for my racing endeavors. i build the engines, the transmissions, the rear ends. i built the cage. i tubbed it. i do the wiring. i pay for fuel. entry fees. nhra "membership". oil. tires. when something breaks, i pay for it. everything. sponsorship? i got a set of tires once. sounds like a "real" racer, doesn't it?

Sounds like someone who doesn't mind paying 70 bucks every two years. Also, it's been the rule for a long time. Maybe you should have thought of that before you built all of that stuff.
BTW I pay most of the bills too. We have a couple of product sponsors but that's it. I tend to come off like an a hole from time to time. That may well be because I am an A hole but the belt rule keeps coming up on this site. I just don't know why. It's less than a hundred bucks, it's every two years, everyone knows this and it isn't going away. If it keeps you from racing you might not be a real racer.

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 07:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Exactly. It's easy to tell the real racers from the pretenders around here.

your perspicacity is formidable. we are fortunate to be in your presence.

See guys like you all of the time. Pay the 70 bucks or get another hobby.

suppose you tell me what kind of guy i am?

The kind that argue about paying 70 bucks every two years as part of the cost or racing. Real racers just write the check. Don't mean to step on anyone's toes but that's the way it is with the guys who visit my trailer.

I have no beef with the NHRA... when I tried to renew
my license this last time they bent over backwards
to get me a license... they told me to try and find
another doctor that would sign me off... when I told
them I tried 3 already they said keep looking...
other than a few dumb rules which one is the belt
thing they are ok (to a extent)... and because I
dont like the seat belt rule I guess I'm not a real
racer... oh well... I guess just guys with the big
dollar budgets and big dollar cars are the only real
racers

Let me ask you something Mike. Did the seat belt rule ever keep you from racing? My budget isn't as big as you might expect and it all comes right from my bank account. When our belts are expired I order another set. If that's every year, two years or every race I'm still going to do just that. Am I a "real racer"? I don't even drive the car but I know that to play you have to pay and I have no control of the rules.

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 07:28 PM

Quote:

If it keeps you from racing you might not be a real racer.

i'll keep racing anyway.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 07:31 PM

No it hasnt stopped me from racing... but do I have to
like the rule... NO... and yes I think its a DUMB
rule for it to be every 2 years... I have a few sets
of belts that look brand new but are expired...
this is the last year that I can run my cam lock
belts... no more rewebs on them so its a whole new
cam lock set... like the hardware is bad

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 07:40 PM

Well when I got my license in the ex Sox and Martin Challenger it had two inch belts in it. Also when I built my race van none of this tag tax crap existed.

BobR if you are a real racer you would be towing that stang to SGMP http://racesgmp.com/schedule-dragstrip-detail.da?id=267 to run with the big dogs at Duck's race at the end of Feb.

Real racers go where the competition is or would you rather just hang out with your buddies in your trailer.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 09:17 PM

Quote:

See guys like you all of the time. Pay the 70 bucks or get another hobby.

ADD UP all that SFI stuff and NHRA required parts ...and it is A LOT more than 70$.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 09:20 PM

The G-Force belts are $149.99 with the shipping what $160.00+. To be honest I can afford that.But why should I have to if the belts are still good? But all of those couple of hundred dollars do add up.

mad man Bob

just having a little fun with you about the $70.00 belts

I see you are smart enought to know with the price of fuel I will never make it out to the left coast,but now if you come over to SGMP that's not all that far away.

I'm glad to see I am not the only one who feels this way about some of the Rules.

Now back to the

NHRA

Belts every 2 years,who do they think we are John Force

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 09:28 PM

Quote:

with the price of fuel I will never make it out to the left coast

if you were a real racer...

Posted By: plycuda

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 10:27 PM

Im not a real racer either but when I pull up with a 5 point harness that hasn't seen day light in 2 years and I can't make a pass and my friends roadrunner with 40 year old lap belt running almost the same mph is okay to race something wrong in the rule book.

Posted By: atoetly

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 10:29 PM

This thread is better than any soap opera.

Posted By: camastomcat

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 10:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

with the price of fuel I will never make it out to the left coast

if you were a real racer...

As consumers we get screwed lots of ways. Whether it's the tax structure, or a building permit, or the cost of deisel fuel vs gas, we get hammered. Secondly, it's not fair to say someone is a real racer except that person and his peers. I've been in this game for 25 years and remember when I started people would say how bad NHRA was and political BS a person had to endure to race. And it's gotten worse. As much this sport costs, it doesn't make much sense to whine about the cost of belts, or re-certs in general. But to some, like me, it's just the principal . And no doubt, some of this safety stuff is needed. If the NHRA didn't take such advantage of the sportsman racer, actually paid some decent prize money, didn't expect us to pay more so a few at the top could live like kings, this debate wouldn't be so intense. I am and have always been a fan and that's what made me want to race. It's been hard the last 3 years to be able to compete at the level I have, but that's my choice, and unlike many, I pay cash for my racing "Jones". It would be nice if NHRA got back to what racing is all about for the racer, and IMO that's to compete at the highest level a person can afford. If they keep making that goal harder to attain, they will become extinct. I hope not, but it's up to them and us. Rant over!

Posted By: MegaDart

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/25/11 11:08 PM

Here is a link to the legal complaint, surprising it is a good read

http://www.capdale.com/files/upload/NHRAcomplaint.pdf

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 12:48 AM

Quote:

Well when I got my license in the ex Sox and Martin Challenger it had two inch belts in it. Also when I built my race van none of this tag tax crap existed.

BobR if you are a real racer you would be towing that stang to SGMP http://racesgmp.com/schedule-dragstrip-detail.da?id=267 to run with the big dogs at Duck's race at the end of Feb.

Real racers go where the competition is or would you rather just hang out with your buddies in your trailer.

We runner upped on a holeshot(our 4.30 lost to his 4.37) at the SCSN to Mike Murillo 2 months ago.(Billy Glidden lost in the quarter finals) We were in Joliet 18 months ago at the Super Bowl where we qualified number one and lost in the final to a guy who now races in the middle east for Al Anabi. We're not afraid of anyone. We won't have our new BAE hemi combo ready until about March.

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 12:49 AM

Quote:

Quote:

See guys like you all of the time. Pay the 70 bucks or get another hobby.

ADD UP all that SFI stuff and NHRA required parts ...and it is A LOT more than 70$.

It doesn't all expire in two years.

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 12:51 AM

Quote:

Im not a real racer either but when I pull up with a 5 point harness that hasn't seen day light in 2 years and I can't make a pass and my friends roadrunner with 40 year old lap belt running almost the same mph is okay to race something wrong in the rule book.

Fair point.

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 01:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

with the price of fuel I will never make it out to the left coast

if you were a real racer...

As consumers we get screwed lots of ways. Whether it's the tax structure, or a building permit, or the cost of deisel fuel vs gas, we get hammered. Secondly, it's not fair to say someone is a real racer except that person and his peers. I've been in this game for 25 years and remember when I started people would say how bad NHRA was and political BS a person had to endure to race. And it's gotten worse. As much this sport costs, it doesn't make much sense to whine about the cost of belts, or re-certs in general. But to some, like me, it's just the principal . And no doubt, some of this safety stuff is needed. If the NHRA didn't take such advantage of the sportsman racer, actually paid some decent prize money, didn't expect us to pay more so a few at the top could live like kings, this debate wouldn't be so intense. I am and have always been a fan and that's what made me want to race. It's been hard the last 3 years to be able to compete at the level I have, but that's my choice, and unlike many, I pay cash for my racing "Jones". It would be nice if NHRA got back to what racing is all about for the racer, and IMO that's to compete at the highest level a person can afford. If they keep making that goal harder to attain, they will become extinct. I hope not, but it's up to them and us. Rant over!

We race in the PSCA. The second day that the news broke that we were going with the BAE hemi/alcohol the rule that added 100 pounds for an inner cooler evaporated. We fought the head of PSCA for 2 years to convince him that this rule sucked but to no avail until we took ours off. Because of this we have to carry an addition 100 pounds over what we figured our combo had to weigh. Nitrous Outlaw cars were allowed to remove 175 pounds. When we ran nitrous he wouldn't budge an inch. He allows tube chassis cars. Ours is a real Outlaw backhalf. He allows non steel roofs-another thing that goes against the real Outlaw idea. And on and on. Rules suck but the only way around them is to find another hobby.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 01:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

See guys like you all of the time. Pay the 70 bucks or get another hobby.

ADD UP all that SFI stuff and NHRA required parts ...and it is A LOT more than 70$.

It doesn't all expire in two years.

While I understand you are pro NHRA I dont see why
you knock others that are maybe pro IHRA... I can
race to 8.50 in the IHRA right now but cant run
9.99 in the NHRA... its not all about the seat belt
issue... people are entitled to their own opinion

Posted By: jamesc

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 09:44 AM

Quote:

Here is a link to the legal complaint, surprising it is a good read

hmmm...define good read

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 11:52 AM

With most peoples attitude"you got to pay to play" is why NHRA gets away with the some of these dumb rules.Lets open our minds and look at the billions of miles motorist,professional truck drivers and the airlines traval and how often they replace belts and how many times have you heard of a belt failure.Some of these rules is just to help the aftermarket race industry and we like cattle line up for the slaughter,mooooving along nose to tail.I think that every track should have a petition to change some of these redundant and costly rules where the racers can sign and the track owners can present it at the end of each season to NHRA for consideration.Just complaining won't work action will.Once the tracks owners feel that they may lose revenue and reflect their concerns to NHRA and NHRA gets the idea that they may suffer,them change just may be possible.If they don't listen,then we all can understand that they don't care.I had a parts supplier tell me if I didn't like his pricing to go elseware,I did,now he is dropping his pants to get my business back.

Posted By: MegaDart

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 01:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Here is a link to the legal complaint, surprising it is a good read

hmmm...define good read

informative and well constructed

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 02:00 PM

After reading the "complaint" I see it is not hardly a suit but a request to investigate NHRA's non-profit status and questioning there compensation practices.Seems like someone past or present with inside information is pissed at someone or the organization and is exposing them for possible errors in the business practices as pretaining to a non-profit organization.This is like someone getting a devorice and exposing the spouses'"dirty little secrets".There is nothing wrong with questioning someones practices,especially if their doing it with someone elses money.If it's a non-profit organization then the members or member of such an organization has every right to raise questions.Be carefull of who you piss off.

Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 02:06 PM

I believe it is a "Whistle Blower" type thing. Evidently,, he wasn't getting his 'whistle' blown like the others...

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 02:14 PM

Quote:

After reading the "complaint" I see it is not hardly a suit but a request to investigate NHRA's non-profit status and questioning there compensation practices.Seems like someone past or present with inside information is pissed at someone or the organization and is exposing them for possible errors in the business practices as pretaining to a non-profit organization.This is like someone getting a devorice and exposing the spouses'"dirty little secrets".There is nothing wrong with questioning someones practices,especially if their doing it with someone elses money.If it's a non-profit organization then the members or member of such an organization has every right to raise questions.Be carefull of who you piss off.

They are hardly getting "sued"

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 03:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

See guys like you all of the time. Pay the 70 bucks or get another hobby.

ADD UP all that SFI stuff and NHRA required parts ...and it is A LOT more than 70$.

It doesn't all expire in two years.

While I understand you are pro NHRA I dont see why
you knock others that are maybe pro IHRA... I can
race to 8.50 in the IHRA right now but cant run
9.99 in the NHRA... its not all about the seat belt
issue... people are entitled to their own opinion

I used to race IHRA. I'm not knocking anyone. The knock on this thread was against the NHRA and that's usually the case. The NHRA made drag racing what it is. The IHRA and the rest just got sucked along in the backwash. That said, if the IHRA had a better deal here on the west coast I'd be all for it. They don't so my allegience is to the ones that do.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 03:26 PM

I pledge allegience only to the USA

God Bless America

No more seat belt rules

Posted By: Hemi Joe 4911

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 03:52 PM

Well said Bob - hope this retirement deal is working well for you, it sure is for me, you will love it! Back to the issue, a lot of these strokers on here just are trying to pull our chain about this seat belt issue, and this real racer stuff, but the seat belt is just the tip of the ice berg. I can remember a few years back when you had to replace my roll cage because the NHRA rep "Pinky" rejected my current cage because he said the tubing thickness wasn't thick enough, although he measured it on the bends so as it would stretch it naturally got thinner, when I tried to explain to him that it was a Jegster roll bar kit, he chewed my ass and said "so you think just because you bought it at Jegs it is legal? - my reply to him was, I'am sure Jegs would not sell a cage that was illegal on purpose. It was advertised in their catalogue being NHRA/AHRA certified. He then failed me and went on too fail the two cars after me and he had already failed the two in front of me. He was pissed because he had to get up early on a Saturday and travel from Columbus to Thompson to do certification. By the way mine was a re-cert which had already passed previously and had passed IHRA cert. The real bad thing was once you fail you cannot run under I believe it is 11.99, so in CHICAGO STYLE-NHRA rules my 9 second car had to have a new cage installed and thanks to Bob George Racing I was able to run the following week. When I first started building this car approximately 14 years ago, I read two of the most important things about building a race car wasn't about getting it launched, but about getting the car safely stopped and buying the best seat belts available which you can quickly release and get out of the car. This was written by someone who had gone off the track and ended upside down in a lake. So when these clowns want to take us off the subject by talking about being cheap and buying $70.00 seat belts, they are either missing the point or don't really care. The Simpsons that I prefer are around $240.. - It's not only the belts, its the cage stuff and re-certs- trans dip stick -tranny shields - new drive shaft loops- only to name a few! I feel better now HEMI JOE

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 04:02 PM

So you are upset, because your cage you bought from Jegs, would not pass the written spec. And that is somehow NHRAs fault and not Jegs................wow. Tubing is always measured in the bend, because, yes it stretches....but....if jegs had used something other than the cheapest crap they could get, it may have passed. The spec is .120 wall mild steel and can be no thinner, ANYWHERE. That is why most kits, made with cheaper ERW tubing are actually made from .134 wall. To make sure they pass the spec. The fact that it passed before, only means that inspector did not happen to measure it in a thin spot.

Monte

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 04:44 PM

Quote:

So you are upset, because your cage you bought from Jegs, would not pass the written spec. And that is somehow NHRAs fault and not Jegs................wow. Tubing is always measured in the bend, because, yes it stretches....but....if jegs had used something other than the cheapest crap they could get, it may have passed. The spec is .120 wall mild steel and can be no thinner, ANYWHERE. That is why most kits, made with cheaper ERW tubing are actually made from .134 wall. To make sure they pass the spec. The fact that it passed before, only means that inspector did not happen to measure it in a thin spot.

Monte

I thought the rules are suppose to be about our safety not about power trips.

Why is it the association that has cars that are designed to crash use .095 as their spec. I won't even get into that NASCAR banned chrome moly because it is too dangerous.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 06:02 PM

Quote:

Well said Bob - hope this retirement deal is working well for you, it sure is for me, you will love it! Back to the issue, a lot of these strokers on here just are trying to pull our chain about this seat belt issue, and this real racer stuff, but the seat belt is just the tip of the ice berg. I can remember a few years back when you had to replace my roll cage because the NHRA rep "Pinky" rejected my current cage because he said the tubing thickness wasn't thick enough, although he measured it on the bends so as it would stretch it naturally got thinner, when I tried to explain to him that it was a Jegster roll bar kit, he chewed my ass and said "so you think just because you bought it at Jegs it is legal? - my reply to him was, I'am sure Jegs would not sell a cage that was illegal on purpose. It was advertised in their catalogue being NHRA/AHRA certified. He then failed me and went on too fail the two cars after me and he had already failed the two in front of me. He was pissed because he had to get up early on a Saturday and travel from Columbus to Thompson to do certification. By the way mine was a re-cert which had already passed previously and had passed IHRA cert. The real bad thing was once you fail you cannot run under I believe it is 11.99, so in CHICAGO STYLE-NHRA rules my 9 second car had to have a new cage installed and thanks to Bob George Racing I was able to run the following week. When I first started building this car approximately 14 years ago, I read two of the most important things about building a race car wasn't about getting it launched, but about getting the car safely stopped and buying the best seat belts available which you can quickly release and get out of the car. This was written by someone who had gone off the track and ended upside down in a lake. So when these clowns want to take us off the subject by talking about being cheap and buying $70.00 seat belts, they are either missing the point or don't really care. The Simpsons that I prefer are around $240.. - It's not only the belts, its the cage stuff and re-certs- trans dip stick -tranny shields - new drive shaft loops- only to name a few! I feel better now HEMI JOE

FWIW Pinky AKA Don Cobbs RIP, was a very fair minded guy. I knew him well, he was only doing his job and your beef should have been with Jegs like Monte said.

He went out of his way for many guys, me included. I respected him for that and made racing at the div races enjoyable for me and many others.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 06:08 PM

FWIW Pinky AKA Don Cobbs RIP, was a very fair minded guy. I knew him well, he was only doing his job and your beef should have been with Jegs like Monte said.

He went out of his way for many guys, me included. I respected him for that and made racing at the div races enjoyable for me and many others.

He certed mine I would guess like 6 years ago... was
nice to me... I remember he did the cert at the place
he worked at and all the employees were watching as
I unloaded and loaded back up after he was done...
that was a day or two before the Mopar Nats

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 06:11 PM

BG MrBob,It would be nice if you are some of the others could write us up a petition that we could print off and take to our local and any other tracks we go to and have the racers sign. You are 100 percent right,as long as we line up and pay its never going to stop.

We can try and jest about it,but it is a Real $$$$$$ Problem.

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 06:28 PM

Quote:

BG MrBob,It would be nice if you are some of the others could write us up a petition that we could print off and take to our local and any other tracks we go to and have the racers sign. You are 100 percent right,as long as we line up and pay its never going to stop.

We can try and jest about it,but it is a Real $$$$$$ Problem.

I doubt that the NHRA will bend to a petition if safety is an issue. It's all about liability and they could be liable if you race with out of spec parts and you get hurt. Their underwriters have a lot to say about what is and isn't acceptable. IMO the NHRA is the best game in town. If you want to play you have to play by their rules. I don't like spending money unnecessarily but I do what they tell me to do as far as safety equipment because I like what they bring. There are other options like has been pointed out a dozen times in this thread.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 06:41 PM

Quote:

FWIW Pinky AKA Don Cobbs RIP, was a very fair minded guy. I knew him well, he was only doing his job and your beef should have been with Jegs like Monte said.

He went out of his way for many guys, me included. I respected him for that and made racing at the div races enjoyable for me and many others.

I can't tell you how many times Pinky was looking out for me. I have many stories that I don't have time for now. He was one of the good guys, to me anyway. He was a great guy for the NHRA and the little guys.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 06:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

BG MrBob,It would be nice if you are some of the others could write us up a petition that we could print off and take to our local and any other tracks we go to and have the racers sign. You are 100 percent right,as long as we line up and pay its never going to stop.

We can try and jest about it,but it is a Real $$$$$$ Problem.

I doubt that the NHRA will bend to a petition if safety is an issue. It's all about liability and they could be liable if you race with out of spec parts and you get hurt. Their underwriters have a lot to say about what is and isn't acceptable. IMO the NHRA is the best game in town. If you want to play you have to play by their rules. I don't like spending money unnecessarily but I do what they tell me to do as far as safety equipment because I like what they bring. There are other options like has been pointed out a dozen times in this thread.

Want us to shut up.

It is simple.

Tell us what the spec is. Run the test on the belts. Show us the results.

Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 06:54 PM

Mr mad man BobR will you adopt me? If I had plenty of $$$ to race I would be a Happy Racer

I am not asking to be allowed to run anything that's not safe....just be resonable with the Rules!!

Posted By: Apollo 13

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 07:24 PM

Why not find a way to "make" an updated tag and sew it on? They make fake everything else in this world, why not? I do agree with being safe, and when it needs it replace it. Just not every two years. That's just a good ol boy, get'em to spend money every year, kick back program.

Posted By: Hemi Joe 4911

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 07:40 PM

Ok, so Pinky was great to some, I know of guys from Columbus that told me, he just handed them their cert sticker - that sure sounds fair to me. Remember safety is what we are talking about and law suits. To tell me that Jegs sells Junk is a poor answer and we are talking about protecting NHRA from law suits. RIP Pinky. I feel better now. Hemi Joe

Posted By: bwdst6

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 07:41 PM

Quote:

Why not find a way to "make" an updated tag and sew it on? They make fake everything else in this world, why not?

Well first you would take an existing tag and scan it. Bring it into Paint Brush or something similar to clean it up and also to change the dates for the future. Next you would need to find some similar paper cloth to print the new tags on. I would think most craft stores would carry something just about the same. And then print out the new tags.

In order to punch out the new dates in a similar fashion I would think 3/16� break line would be about the right size and also sharpen up the edges. Take care as to not punch the new dates out completely as I�ve notice that most have a hanging chad (insert Florida voting joke here!) thing happening. Sew it into the belt and done!

But that�s how I would envision someone making new tags for a belt!

Posted By: jamesc

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 07:42 PM

Quote:

Why not find a way to "make" an updated tag and sew it on?

contact impact racing

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 07:45 PM

Quote:

Ok, so Pinky was great to some, I know of guys from Columbus that told me, he just handed them their cert sticker - that sure sounds fair to me. Remember safety is what we are talking about and law suits. To tell me that Jegs sells Junk is a poor answer and we are talking about protecting NHRA from law suits. RIP Pinky. I feel better now. Hemi Joe

He said, she said don't mean anything to me. I want to hear first hand experience, not what you were told or heard from a friend.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 07:50 PM

I wonder how many guys who are complaining about the cost of maintaining safety equipment have ever had a wreck where it saved there lives. I have, a hi speed wreck and luckly was not seriously hurt other than my pocket book.

Did you know when you wreck, the NHRA tech guy cut's off all the tags off of every single peice of safety equipment so it all has to be sent back or replaced? Everything.

Posted By: mopacltd

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 07:59 PM

Did you know when you wreck, the NHRA tech guy cut's off all the tags off of every single peice of safety equipment so it all has to be sent back or replaced? Everything.
This is not a true statement for the wreck I had. I put my car on the roof (1/10/01) not one safty tag, including the chassis cert was removed. NOT ONE, even though the repair bill on the car was over $9,000.

Posted By: bwdst6

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 08:01 PM

Quote:

I wonder how many guys who are complaining about the cost of maintaining safety equipment have ever had a wreck where it saved there lives. I have, a hi speed wreck and luckly was not seriously hurt other than my pocket book.

Yeah, I�ve been in a high speed wreck and my belts were technically expired (they somehow had updated tags for some reason

). Other than some marks on my chest from the belts digging in from the force of the impact I was fine. Car wasn�t of course.

Don�t remember the tech guy cutting off the tags. But that was almost a decade ago and tech guys are usually pretty lax anyway.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 08:15 PM

Quote:

I wonder how many guys who are complaining about the cost of maintaining safety equipment have ever had a wreck where it saved there lives. I have, a hi speed wreck and luckly was not seriously hurt other than my pocket book.

Did you know when you wreck, the NHRA tech guy cut's off all the tags off of every single peice of safety equipment so it all has to be sent back or replaced? Everything.

And not a bar in the car was legal. Went over three times.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 08:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I wonder how many guys who are complaining about the cost of maintaining safety equipment have ever had a wreck where it saved there lives. I have, a hi speed wreck and luckly was not seriously hurt other than my pocket book.

Yeah, I�ve been in a high speed wreck and my belts were technically expired (they somehow had updated tags for some reason ). Other than some marks on my chest from the belts digging in from the force of the impact I was fine. Car wasn�t of course.

Don�t remember the tech guy cutting off the tags. But that was almost a decade ago and tech guys are usually pretty lax anyway.

And I thought I was the only one who made a trip to the stationary store for an ink pad and a date stamp.

Posted By: Hemi Joe 4911

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 08:37 PM

When a fellow racer whom I have raced with for years tells me that Pinky just handed him his cert sticker it is more than just he said she said, and he wasn't the only one. Don't tell me about Pinky, he grew up 20 miles from my home and a close friend of mine lived beside him and ran with him, so lets not go their. Actually this should not be about Pinky, but about NHRA- if you want to kiss their a// thats up to you! I consider them NHRA in the same class as the EPA, try to reason with those people!! Well its like trying to reason with NHRA. Feel better now HEMI JOE

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 08:49 PM

Quote:

When a fellow racer whom I have raced with for years tells me that Pinky just handed him his cert sticker it is more than just he said she said, and he wasn't the only one. Don't tell me about Pinky, he grew up 20 miles from my home and a close friend of mine lived beside him and ran with him, so lets not go their. Actually this should not be about Pinky, but about NHRA- if you want to kiss their a// thats up to you! I consider them NHRA in the same class as the EPA, try to reason with those people!! Well its like trying to reason with NHRA. Feel better now HEMI JOE

Not saying this is fact or not BUT if he certed a
guys chassis the last time(or even everytime) he
MAY have handed him the cert tag... if he knew the
car and owner and that the car hadnt been in a crash

Posted By: BobR

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/26/11 09:36 PM

Quote:

Did you know when you wreck, the NHRA tech guy cut's off all the tags off of every single peice of safety equipment so it all has to be sent back or replaced? Everything.
This is not a true statement for the wreck I had. I put my car on the roof (1/10/01) not one safty tag, including the chassis cert was removed. NOT ONE, even though the repair bill on the car was over $9,000.

You were VERY LUCKY. The two wrecks we had the chassis cert was gone before the car was removed from the track.

Posted By: KD800X

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/27/11 04:12 AM

Quote:

So you are upset, because your cage you bought from Jegs, would not pass the written spec. And that is somehow NHRAs fault and not Jegs................wow. Tubing is always measured in the bend, because, yes it stretches....but....if jegs had used something other than the cheapest crap they could get, it may have passed. The spec is .120 wall mild steel and can be no thinner, ANYWHERE. That is why most kits, made with cheaper ERW tubing are actually made from .134 wall. To make sure they pass the spec. The fact that it passed before, only means that inspector did not happen to measure it in a thin spot.

Monte

I use to work at Jegs, we sold hundreds of cages. I don't ever remember one of their roll cages getting bounced because of being too thin. Pinky use to come into Jegs all the time... I wonder it it was to tell Roger Burkett that his cages were junk. I doubt it.
And yes Jegs cages are .134 wall so I don't know how it could be pass one year and thin the next.
I know racers who liked Pinky and I know racers who couldn't stand him. I can tell you I've know a lot of racers up in NE Ohio and some in Michigan that have had problems with him. I guess he just didn�t like us up here.

The biggest problem with NHRA's Safety rules is there is no consistency. They�ll bounce you for belts being a month out of date, but when is the last time a Tech official check your tires when you pulled into the track? (Everyone on here knows someone who has raced with cords showing on 5 year old tires) When was the last time a tech official looked at your helmets condition (NOT JUST THE STICKER)?
The bottom line is they can give a crap less about the class racer. It's a fact all they care about is Nitro. They've always been that way and always will be. And the more they jack with these stupid rules like the trans dip sticks just drives more and more people away. At least you have a choice�. IHRA wants the class racer.

Back to the NHRA so called Car Club. I called this out over 15 years ago. How can they call them selves non-profit when they bring in millions of dollars in gate fees, entry fees, food, and souvenirs...Yet pay out no prize money.
I would hate to see them go out of business, but they've been living on barrowed time.

HEY... Since NHRA is Non Profit, does that mean that you can write off your entry fees as a donation on your taxes? Maybe we should call the IRS and ask them.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/27/11 04:33 AM

KD800 wrote:
"HEY... Since NHRA is Non Profit, does that mean that you can write off your entry fees as a donation on your taxes? Maybe we should call the IRS and ask them."

Do you think Jeggie wrote off his entry fees?

Posted By: KD800X

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/27/11 04:55 AM

Quote:

KD800 wrote:
"HEY... Since NHRA is Non Profit, does that mean that you can write off your entry fees as a donation on your taxes? Maybe we should call the IRS and ask them."

Do you think Jeggie wrote off his entry fees?

LOL... I'm sure he did, but was it filed under donation or advertisement?

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/27/11 05:06 AM

Well I got back some responses on how the ANDRA handles the seatbelt issue.

The ANDRA stands for the Australian National Drag Race Association.

The first racer said if you are a Class 1 racer, had a trap speed of over 200mph, the belts couldn't be over three years old.

The other racer said that his were seven years old when he tested them and they didn't fail.

We are getting ripped off.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/27/11 05:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

KD800 wrote:
"HEY... Since NHRA is Non Profit, does that mean that you can write off your entry fees as a donation on your taxes? Maybe we should call the IRS and ask them."

Do you think Jeggie wrote off his entry fees?

LOL... I'm sure he did, but was it filed under donation or advertisement?

Too bad you guys don't even know what "wrote off" means.

Posted By: KD800X

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/27/11 05:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

KD800 wrote:
"HEY... Since NHRA is Non Profit, does that mean that you can write off your entry fees as a donation on your taxes? Maybe we should call the IRS and ask them."

Do you think Jeggie wrote off his entry fees?

LOL... I'm sure he did, but was it filed under donation or advertisement?

Too bad you guys don't even know what "wrote off" means.

I didn't know we all need to be tax lawyers also.
I was joking! So lighten up Frances...

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/27/11 06:01 AM

DON'T need to be a tax-attorney to WRITE OFF biz expenses .....

Anything ....and I mean ANY THING that in any way can be spun-into a biz-expense is a WRITE OFF.

If Juggie got a "real personal" lap-dance at a strip-bar ... I will BET he wrote that off toooo ..

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/27/11 06:07 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

KD800 wrote:
"HEY... Since NHRA is Non Profit, does that mean that you can write off your entry fees as a donation on your taxes? Maybe we should call the IRS and ask them."

Do you think Jeggie wrote off his entry fees?

LOL... I'm sure he did, but was it filed under donation or advertisement?

Too bad you guys don't even know what "wrote off" means.

I feel stupid.

I did it for seventeen years and now your telling me I didn't know what I did.

Posted By: 493_DART

Re: The NHRA is getting sued - 01/27/11 12:31 PM

Quote:

I believe Monte and Chapper feel that we are only commenting about NHRA because of the blood in the water as they wish to call it, actually this subject about NHRA is long over due, you certainly can't express your opinions at the NHRA track or in the Dragster. As we all know NHRA runs this program with a Chicago Style Political Attitude, and they are always right! I have been aroung drag racing since the late 50's and early 60's I will admitt, I don't know it all, but I do know a lot. I'am not of the thinking that NHRA should go out of business, however they must get back to reality, and if they owe taxes then they should pay them, my opinion they should have been paying them for years, and the President of NHRA should not be making more $$ than the President of The United States! As for safety they are out of control, especialy on the seat belt issue, give us 4 years instead of the two years, but let the tech people check them for tears, dry rot ect. If the military only changes fight jets every 5 years, you can't convince me that this is not a money grab. Monte and Chapper called my comment on payoffs a conspiracy theory, its like Jesse says FOLLOW THE MONEY! I'am not stupid, I am a retired salesman after 45 years, I know how the system works, as an example, I called on GM-Ford_and Chrysler in Detroit. Never did GM, or Chrysler purchasing agents want a kick-back, however we were at Ford Motor Company going over a quote on $100,000.00 hydraulic press for their Brookpark, Ohio plant when their purchasing agent interupted the pruposal to let us know his TV wasn't working well and then he gave us his business card with his HOME ADDRESS on it so we could ship his a new TV. We did not do it and when I called him the following week to check on our quote he told me it went into the waste can! As another example I had a friend here in Ohio whose son was up on charges of stealing newspaper boxes, the DA came to their home the night before the trial and said if my friend would give him $10,000 in cash the case would go away and it would be over, my friend could not do it and his son went away for 2 years, so if you don't believe this stuff does not go on, then you have inhaled too many nitro fumes. Back to NHRA selective safety issues. Remember I believe it was last year when they interviewed Warren Johnson about the track being unsafe, and he said that they only care about Top Fuel and Funny Car, and when the Pro Stock Drivers said they would not race because the track was unsafe and in CHICAGO STYLE form Graham Light told them that two cars had altready gone down and if the rest of the guys would not go down then the class had its winner and runner-up and they call this safety. I use to be the guy who would break all the speeding laws so I could get home from racing so that I could watch an NHRA event on tv, but after the John Force/Robert Height deal last year it turned my stomach, it was best said by another Moparts Member awhile back, a 20 year John Force Fan lost in 5 seconds, even Mike Dunn was amazed at that deal, and I am so tired of watching one lane race tracks, and they wonder why the stands are only two-thirds full. I don't want NHRA to go away but I do want them to improve and for them constantly raising prices this sucks, I have been an NHRA member for ages, I would give it up tomorrow, however they have you by the short hairs, because to race at an NHRA track where you need a license, you must be a member, once again Chicago Style. As for the comment about Norwalk leaving IHRA to join NHRA, it was a business decision I would believe with better press coverage and exposure, it has always been a great facility, we race their and I really can't see the difference, great traction, great race surface, great people,great restrooms,the Bader Family are are the same Class Act as they were when it was IHRA and the ice cream is dam good. I would hope NHRA would feel most of our comments were constructive critism, my personal belief is, it won't faze them at all because they are ALWAYS RIGHT - REMEMBER CHICAGO STYLE. For their sake they should tell the TV cameras not to scan the stands so people at home won't see how empty they are, the same as NASCAR. I feel better now!

FOR THE LOVE OF SCIENCE------- PARAGRAPHS ARE YOUR FRIEND .

PLEASE START OVER SO WE CAN READ THE POST.

Posted By: cgall

Re: The NHRA Needs New Management - 01/29/11 02:03 AM

Great post from another site, sums up my feelings exactly:

There's an old saying that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". In my opinion the lack of accountability that management and the board have had for years plays in to that old saying. Management and the board are the same people and are not accountable to anyone. They do what they please, they pay themselves what they please with no concern with how it affects all of us. Most 501-C6 tax exempt organizations are accountable to their members. In fact according to IRS rules they must be membership based organizations with a high degree of membership involvement.

Look at the NFL, the members are the owners of the teams, the owners pick a board and hire the CEO, who is accountable to the team owners. SEMA is another good example of a 501-C6 organization. The members vote on board members who in turn hire a person to run the organization. The management is accountable to the board and the board is accountable to the members. The lack of accountability is what's led to the shape NHRA finds themselves in right now.

I think the NHRA is way beyond needing an overhaul of the management.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA Needs New Management - 01/29/11 02:18 AM

Quote:

Great post from another site, sums up my feelings exactly:

There's an old saying that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". In my opinion the lack of accountability that management and the board have had for years plays in to that old saying. Management and the board are the same people and are not accountable to anyone. They do what they please, they pay themselves what they please with no concern with how it affects all of us. Most 501-C6 tax exempt organizations are accountable to their members. In fact according to IRS rules they must be membership based organizations with a high degree of membership involvement.

Look at the NFL, the members are the owners of the teams, the owners pick a board and hire the CEO, who is accountable to the team owners. SEMA is another good example of a 501-C6 organization. The members vote on board members who in turn hire a person to run the organization. The management is accountable to the board and the board is accountable to the members. The lack of accountability is what's led to the shape NHRA finds themselves in right now.

I think the NHRA is way beyond needing an overhaul of the management.

WHERE is Kevin(NDragster) ....when he could use a DOSE of THIS clear-thinking ?

Posted By: mopacltd

Re: The NHRA Needs New Management - 01/29/11 03:22 AM

Also from another site:
How NHRA got started

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Oldfield
I blame Wally. I don't know if he just didn't know who he was hiring, or if he got greedy as life went on. But, in the end, he was the guy that assembled this pack of corporate clowns.

My guess is that he wanted help from the business side of things because he realized he didn't have the knowledge to be able to take NHRA where he thought it could go. Kudos to him for recognizing that, but shame on him for idly standing by and allowing the clowns to run away with the organization, when he should have owned up to the mistake, stepped in, and fired them.

But, maybe I'm giving Wally too much credit, and maybe he wasn't as intelligent as I thought he was...

Seems like it was working fine until the Modified Producted protest at Indy. The powers of NHRA discovered that the members could decided what happened to NHRA. They set up a vote through a mail in ballot to modify how the voting process could happen.

The results were that they actually took the vote away from the members and put all decisions in the hands of the board of directors, who were at the time. Wally Parks, Dallas Gardner, Dick Wells, and Harvey Palash.

Harvey Palash (Diamond P fame) resigned. Dick Wells and Wally Parks died. Graham LIght and Peter Clifford were added. Gardner handed over NHRA to Tom Compton to run and he was also added to the board. They all work for NHRA except Gardner. From what I understand he retired from running NHRA to just being on the board which does include a small pay check so he can get by.

They have just added two more members to make six current board members.

Posted By: dOrk !

Re: The NHRA Needs New Management - 02/01/11 12:53 AM

Keeping this ALIVE .. just for Kevin ...NDragster.

WHAT should happen HERE ...is what is going-on right-now in Egypt.

B U T ... to give credit where credit is due .... YES ...NHRA has done lots of good for the "sport" of drag racing. But it is NO MORE of an "association" than the man-in-the-moon.

Come on Kevin ..... we need your thoughts.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: The NHRA Needs New Management - 02/01/11 02:00 AM

I just donate to NHRA,we had 6 chassis certifications done last week nd 4 more to get done