building back half car

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Thanks very much for the info. I understand what everyone is saying. I will get the rims/slicks and figure out the width the rear housing has to be.

I now have the body mounted on a rigid jig perfectly leveled, since i removed the rear half of the car. Before I proceed with actually fitting and welding the rear frame rails and crossmembers in, does the body have to be removed off the jig for mock up? I am thinking I can lift the rear up to where I want it to sit at ride height and do the mock up with it mounted on the jig. I do not want to remove it because I don't want anything to move before the frame rails and cage go in.

Thanks again,
Greg.

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I'm doing a full chassis right now... next week I'll
roll my chassis jig in and set the car on it... I
use the jig as the ground surface then reference
from that
This is where I'm at now

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Another

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Thanks Mr P body. Got it.

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If you look at the faster Super Stock cars, they have the same limitations of higher than desired ride height due to stock front suspension, but want a low chassis bracket to get the IC needed. They usually have tubular main framerails that are a few inches below the floorpan and that gets the bottom of the chassis brackets low enough. I'll attach a small pic of Gary Wolkwitz's SS Hemi Dart that is that way. But I have seen a couple that are like mine, hanging down with a support brace.

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Mr pea body i wish you lived by me I would love to help u build that car ...great project ...I might have to come down to dragweek in topeka just to meet u .............rook

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Hopefully it'll be done and on the trip

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On the flooring and firewall NHRA allows .024 steel or .032 alum. The weight of .024 (24 guage)steel is 1 lb per ft. 20gauge steel (.0360) is 1.5 lb per ft. .032 (20 guage) alum is .452 lb per ft. and .0403( 18 guage) alum is .569 lb per ft. John

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Thanks very much for the info John and Rowin'. Much appreciation for the heads up.


Here's another question. What have you guys done as far as mounting the frame connectors. The rear attachment point is at the rear frame rails (set at 26") and it should spread out towards the front to meet where the front rails mount to the x member. But, If I do that, I don't think I will be able to get the torsion bars out. Besides getting rid of the torsion bar setup, what is the solution. No room on the insides of the torsion bar mounts to fasten them (I don't think)??

Thanks,
greg.

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I believe your frame connectors should come straight back from the front frame/ crossmember to the 4 link crossmember that is tied into the body rocker panels that should be there.

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Hey guys,

Well I am getting close to installing the back half kit. It is arriving tomorrow and I am finishing up the repair and reinforcement of the rocker area. This is after cutting the back of the car off and removing the rusted and damaged rocker area.


Thanks for any input,
Greg.

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OH, DEAR, Lord help us!!! You are a far, far braver man than I am!!!

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Hey guys,

Well I am getting close to installing the back half kit. It is arriving tomorrow and I am finishing up the repair and reinforcement of the rocker area. This is after cutting the back of the car off and removing the rusted and damaged rocker area.




Now, a few more questions. I went with the Chris Alston ChassisWorks Eliminator II 4 link setup. When I looked at the specs, I was surprised to see that it is designed to set the rockers at 6" off the ground. Is this correct?? It just seems so low and the front of the car at the rockers is about 8" with the drag torsion bars . I have them cranked up pretty high for some built in stored energy and the front control arm (lower) are still just touching the bump stops. I can't really set the front any lower.

At 6 " up front, the header pipes would almost be scraping the floor.

So the first question again is : is this right based on your experience with this particular kit?

If this is not right and potentially a problem, I was thinking of cutting the front section of framerail at the downleg of the rail 2 ", which would raise the car height 2" , giving me rockers at 8". If I do this, I know the 4 link brackets would hang down 2 " lower, and I would reinforce the front area of the brackets back into the frame connector area , and get shock/spring height 2" longer to make up for the height change. This would leave the bracket geometry the same as before and just be lifting the car up 2".

Is this correct and do you see any problems with this?

Thanks for any input,
Greg.

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I just ran across some pictures of a '63 with a 4 link backhalf. The frame connectors were put in wider and straight as suggested above and then a triangular boxed support was welded in to the 4 link bracket location.

This is what I will do. Any problems forseen doing it this way??

Thanks,
Greg.

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That is exactly what I was going to suggest. Beep

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No kit, everything home made except part of the cage. I had my tires an rims for the mock up so I could set ride height. Ladder bar car but same process. Centered my pinion as well. Good luck with your project.

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Very nice work there!! Wow, that is a tight radius bend on the crossmember. Nice.

Thanks for sharing.

Greg.

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Great looking welds but a small piece of advice, you should just tack weld all your pieces until you get everything mocked up and into position where everything fits and lines up because if you have to adjust something you will not be happy, trust me I made that mistake and I was not happy. Remember.....progress is progress.

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Just use some heavy tacks for time being. It'd suck if the DS didn't clear and you had to cut that all out....

Vertical Downs

Otherwise looks great

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Interesting thread and to the OP.

But I'm curious, to those that do these modifications for a living or whatever, what price range would this kind of work (4 link back half)cost if the car was dropped off at a shop, not including rear end, brakes?

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R5p7: I am assuming you mean that welding vertical down is a no-no?? I thought that I read that is the way to do a vertical weld. Please advise...I don;t want to compromise penetration or strength . Also, do you weave a joint like that or straight stich? I did a slight weave on these.

Greg.

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Yes Vertical down welding is a big no no on structural components. If you are doing light sheetmetal work it is applicable, but with something your life is relying on, I'd keep it all vert up.

As stated above you can turn the wire down a bit and be at the edge of short circuit welding almost to globular transfer that will help in keeping the puddle from building to quickly or you can turn the voltage down but you will have to move quicker.

On a vert up weld, you want to move from piece to piece and pause for a brief moment. The heavier the material the longer the pause. On thick steel 3/4" and up you can expect to pause til the count of 3. On this this stuff I'd say maybe the count of 1. Get a couple practice pieces of steel the same thickness to practice with. You'll get the hang of it.

Once you get the hang of it you won't need to count in your head anymore you'll be able to read the puddle and know when to move...

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It should be, turn the wire and heat down not "or". Since the vert up is a slower process it has time to dig in and fill at lower heat and slower filler material. It will take a little practice to dial the welder in, once you get it dialed in write the settings down somewhere so you always have them.

When changing from flat to vert the heat needs to be turned down. Overhead you can still run the same settings as flat but you gotta move

For the most part the E70 series wire I'm assuming you're using can weld pretty decent in all positions.

Edit....

I looked at your pics again. The verts on the plate should be fine since you were burning edge of the material. But the verts on the tube I'd hit with the grinder and redo them. Just for the simple fact that when you were going down the puddle doesn't have enough time to get into the joint. I'm willing to bet money that some of that joint is untouched, it's just the edges of the weld that are actually fused.

Now there are gonna be guys that have done vert downs and they are fine with that and their cars are holding together and have no problems.

Vibration can wreak havoc on poor welds and where its not properly fused in joints is where the crack will start. Then it's only a matter of time before the whole part fails.

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Thanks a ton for the guidance. I am going to take your advice and grind down the verts on the tubes and re-weld them the way you said. Once I practice on some extra tubes to get the settings right, I'll use those to reweld them.

On a joint like that, do you weave back and forth as you move up, or just in the middle and straight up .

Thanks again,
Greg.

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Yeah you will want to do a weave from one piece to the other pausing briefly to let it fill a bit.

It's hard to explain without being able to show someone, but once you start practicing you'll see. if you go to fast the sides of the weld will be cold lap, if you go to slow obviously it will fall out. When you get the welder set right and figure out travel speed the edges of the weld will flow into the base metal like your vert downs.

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Looks like your coming along fine with your project. Is the cage next or sheet metal to make it look like a car again?

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Keep the pictures coming, This is better than a magazine story.
the only advice would be to install the wheel tubs higher then you think so you can go lower in the rear without any problems. and or bigger tires if you want.

Good luck!

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Just a heads up. If your going to have a hinnged deck lid. Check hinge clearance to the tubs when the trunk is shut. A freind just tubbed his 62 dart and forgot to check. He had to shorten the hinges. Great looking build. Nice looking welds as well. Keep practicing the verticals. Little adjustments to speed and welder settings and they'll look like your others.
Doug

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Thanks Doug. I am going with a fiberglass lid and it will be pinned. Thanks for the heads up. I hope to practice a few more nights before I attempt more vertical welds. I'll post the results here.

I just ordered the deck filler and trunk gutters today, so it will be a few days at least before they go on to finalize the fit. So far, everything is really lining up nice. Only thing is I do have to narrow the horizontal portion of the rocker. They are just too wide to fit well. I guess it's a tolerence issue. I need to take off maybe .050-.060".

Greg.

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What size wire are you using in your mig?...and is it a 110 or 220 machine?.....what type of gas?

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Those frame rails have some serious arch to them. Going to take some long shocks... I thought I was nuts for fixing my RoadRunner. It's looking good though. Do you have AMD on speed dial?

Jeff

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Those are Chassisworks 4 link rails. THey take 16.5" shocks I think. I like your style... Road runner and stickshift. I have a Jerico ready and waiting to go in this Charger...Can't wait.

I am going to do this car to 25.5 , so I have alot of work ahead of me. I would love to see pics of your build. You do nice work.

Greg.

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What size wire are you using in your mig?...and is it a 110 or 220 machine?.....what type of gas?

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I'm using .035" with 75/25 argon/co. It is a MM251 run on 220V. I think I had the setting on 16.5 with 250 wire speed (recommended for the rail thickness). I did some practice cutting it down to 215, and it was better, but still not like my horizontal welds. I will experiment with maybe 180 wirespeed with same voltage and see how that works.

I was using the inverted "V" pattern, but need to get better OP control I guess. Practice, practice.

Greg.

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My Road Runner has pretty much been on the back burner until it warms up. No heat in my garage

I'm taking a week off in May to do nothing but work on it. I should be able to get the cage welded in, wheel tubs, and trunk installed, then it will get put on the rotisserie.

So what wheel, color combo is the Charger going to get when it's done?

Jeff

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It is going to be black (another black charger around...surprise surprise) and I have the Weld Prostars 15 X 15. I am using a M/T 32 X 16 slick.

What about your road runner? What color/ combo?

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Car be be painted the original EE1 Dark blue, and 2 tone blue interior, just like when it was new. Going old school on the wheels.

No better color then black for a 68 Charger. Installing a Jerico is even better.

Jeff

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Looks like you pretty much have clearance for about anything you want to put about anywhere you want to put it!! What are you going to use for a car to attach everything to?? Just kidding. I am not trying to offend you,,,I just think that I would be sort of 'intimidated' by the project every time I went into the garage. I have gotten into some big jobs like this in the past, but, don't think I will live long enough to do one like this now. Good luck and keep us posted with pics.

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Gotta' feel GOOD getting this far along ...Looking good!! Keep at it

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Thanks. I took some time and ground down all four vertical welds on the front area of the crossmember. Actually, I ground 2 of them down twice because I still didn't like the way they looked. I think I am starting to get the hang of it somewhat. I played around alot with the wirespeed and I might leave these as is. Here is what they look like. I know they don;t look great , but I feel they are strong.









I started to fine tune the fit of the quarters and tailpanel, and I am getting the filler panel and trunk gutters in on Monday. I am also looking at parachute mounts so that I can install the mount before the rear valence is final welded in.

More to come,
Greg.