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key way lifters

Posted By: earthmover

key way lifters - 01/04/11 01:52 AM

any info you guys have about them would be great .where to get and or price range. whats the main reason to run them??? just asking for a buddy
Posted By: tubtar

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 02:25 AM

The big reason is weight I believe.
Next up would be saving a block with lifter bores that went south , and though you could simply bush them , I'd look at taking the next step as long as the wallet was open.
It gets expensive , though there are some screaming deals on used NASCAR stuff on the bay.........I got a set of lifters for very cheap , but had to send them back because they weren't drilled for pushrod oiling.
But they only had " dyno time " according to the ad , and they sure looked and rolled like new.
For 250.00 , that was a bargain.
Keyway bushings installed is around 800.00 I think , so it do get pricey.
Posted By: earthmover

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 02:31 AM

his block has lifter bushing in them now and the small oil holes drilled if i remember correct. so if they are bushed he dont have to use the key way lifter ??

its a world block if the helps
Posted By: RyanJ

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 02:52 AM

Quote:


Keyway bushings installed is around 800.00 I think , so it do get pricey.



The bushings alone are about $640.... not including installation. To bush a block with keyway bushings is well over $1000 parts/labor. The bushings are made from Ampco 45 bronze which is a very hard material, meaning honing time is greatly increased as well... The last couple we have done, we put block back in CNC after installing the bushings & bored them about .0005" undersized & then honed the last .0005" out to save time/effort.

The installation tool is $2600 from Jesel... very few shops have one, so not alot can do keyways. Jesel does rent the tool, I forget what the rental fee is, it's like $400 for 3 days? & they nail your credit card for like $1200 up front... & $800 gets refunded after tool gets back to Jesel in 1 piece. I rented the tool first block we did, & then after that just bit bullet & bought one.

The lifters are also in the $2600 range for 16 lifters new from Jesel. Most buy them off internet out of a Nascar shop either used or new overstock stuff to save $.
Posted By: Devilbrad

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 03:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Keyway bushings installed is around 800.00 I think , so it do get pricey.



The bushings alone are about $640.... not including installation. To bush a block with keyway bushings is well over $1000 parts/labor. The bushings are made from Ampco 45 bronze which is a very hard material, meaning honing time is greatly increased as well... The last couple we have done, we put block back in CNC after installing the bushings & bored them about .0005" undersized & then honed the last .0005" out to save time/effort.

The installation tool is $2600 from Jesel... very few shops have one, so not alot can do keyways. Jesel does rent the tool, I forget what the rental fee is, it's like $400 for 3 days? & they nail your credit card for like $1200 up front... & $800 gets refunded after tool gets back to Jesel in 1 piece. I rented the tool first block we did, & then after that just bit bullet & bought one.

The lifters are also in the $2600 range for 16 lifters new from Jesel. Most buy them off internet out of a Nascar shop either used or new overstock stuff to save $.



Holy cow! Is that installation tool block specific or can one tool be used on any block?
Posted By: RyanJ

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 03:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Keyway bushings installed is around 800.00 I think , so it do get pricey.



The bushings alone are about $640.... not including installation. To bush a block with keyway bushings is well over $1000 parts/labor. The bushings are made from Ampco 45 bronze which is a very hard material, meaning honing time is greatly increased as well... The last couple we have done, we put block back in CNC after installing the bushings & bored them about .0005" undersized & then honed the last .0005" out to save time/effort.

The installation tool is $2600 from Jesel... very few shops have one, so not alot can do keyways. Jesel does rent the tool, I forget what the rental fee is, it's like $400 for 3 days? & they nail your credit card for like $1200 up front... & $800 gets refunded after tool gets back to Jesel in 1 piece. I rented the tool first block we did, & then after that just bit bullet & bought one.

The lifters are also in the $2600 range for 16 lifters new from Jesel. Most buy them off internet out of a Nascar shop either used or new overstock stuff to save $.



Holy cow! Is that installation tool block specific or can one tool be used on any block?



It's universal.
Posted By: earthmover

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 03:14 AM

what the h311 man that just suck ..glad its not mine i would have to sell and start all over lol thanks guys
Posted By: earthmover

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 04:00 AM

ryanj could you give me some info on those nascar shops to look at for some. if you have the time thanks mike
Posted By: tubtar

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 04:08 AM

Yikes..........pricier than I remember.
It has been a couple years since I was trying to do this deal , but the lifters still show up on ebay from time to time.
It is a crap shoot buying used , and you want to make sure exactly what you are buying , but there are some deals to be had.
Posted By: earthmover

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 04:21 AM

im thinking he may be cheaper to get new lifter bushing installed and use a good roller lifter any thought on this???? may sound crazy but 2600.00 that a nice price.. they cost about what the block cost..mike
Posted By: Performance Only

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 04:33 AM

Quote:

im thinking he may be cheaper to get new lifter bushing installed and use a good roller lifter any thought on this???? may sound crazy but 2600.00 that a nice price.. they cost about what the block cost..mike



it's a very labor intensive job and requires not only some expensive tools and equipment, but someone with the expertise to do it correctly. i can't think of any reason he would need keyway lifters for his type of build. IMO it would be overkill.
Posted By: earthmover

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 04:56 AM

thanks dan dont know if he contacted you yet but he has your contact info so he should be . and maybe he'll ask about the lifters. .i wish he had a way to atlease read most of the stuff (some ) info on here its well worth it in the end. ..alot of good guys to help with what works and dont..
i know i called him after i read ryanj post and he just didnt know what to say about the price, we had no idea they would be that much ..i know i didnt..thanks mike
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 05:58 AM

What's that come to, $100. per gram saved?
Only slightly more than using gold for ballast...
Posted By: mafo

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 10:57 AM

I really like my key way lifters, but not the price...
We made our own assembly tool, a little cheaper than buying from Jesel
Lsm has bushings and lifters that are a little less expensive

Attached picture 6396548-20080604.jpg
Posted By: LA360

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 12:15 PM

How much has that block been decked Ken? 0.200"?

I had a set of Keyway Jesel lifters that I bought at a good price,and then sold too cheaply to a friend who took forever to pay me for them. Unless it's running a Comp Elim or Pro Stock style profile, I would spend my money elsewhere. There are other alternatives to Jesel Keyway lifters nowadays, but they are still kinda pricey.
There are some really good drop in lifters available now, so it may be something worth looking at.
Posted By: mafo

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 01:11 PM

good guess Alan, deck height is 8.78
Posted By: tubtar

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 02:12 PM

Quote:

What's that come to, $100. per gram saved?
Only slightly more than using gold for ballast...



Well..........when you put it that way..........
makes unobtanium look like a bargain.
Posted By: BobR

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 03:41 PM

Quote:

What's that come to, $100. per gram saved?
Only slightly more than using gold for ballast...



Now you guys may begin to understand the real costs of going fast and why real race engines are soooo expensive. These lifters are better in a few ways-not just the weight savings. If you are revving your motor past 9 grand you need this kind of stuff.
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 04:09 PM

Do you mean the side-thrust of dragging the link back and forth?

Keyed lifters are ancient - they just get "re-invented" every 30 years.
The expense of machining the bushing looks like overkill. The lifter wants to ride with the roller correctly across the lobe because turning side-ways increases the spring load, so unless the lash gets out of hand the required precision isn't really that high (both angularity and size).
It doesn't restrict tappet rotation (i.e., take thrust load) like a pushrod guide actually "steers" the PR, it's only a fence to prevent them from wandering too far.
The roller has to rotate a huge amount before it can be trapped cross-wise and self-destruct, and it only needs to be caught before that point - not at .001° off.
Harley has used rollers with the wheel captive in a slot for 90 years, and they're pretty sloppy - but nothing ever happens, even in the race motors.
Posted By: earthmover

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 07:57 PM

ok guys just got a call from my buddy and was told by the place he got the block that he has to have the 937 key way lifters...ive been on jesal site but no price info so any of you guys that are warehouse dealers for the keyway lifters shoot me a pm my buddy is looking for a set thanks mike or no where he can get a set thanks
Posted By: mafo

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 09:02 PM

http://www.lsmeng.com/

http://www.iskycams.com/RedZoneAdLR2.pdf

and there was at least one more manufacturer but my memory is very good but also very short...
Posted By: LA360

Re: key way lifters - 01/04/11 10:51 PM

For the Jesel stuff, you won't get much change out of $2600, you can download a pricelist off the Jesel website.

I could be mistaken, but there is a brand of lifters that Darren Tedder (DT Hemi) sells that may make Keyway lifters, I believe the Summit Pro Stock team uses them. I could be on crack and completely wrong though!
I saw a set of Comp Cams Keyway lifters a couple of years back, although no one seems to know much about them.
Posted By: Diablo

Re: key way lifters - 01/05/11 12:00 AM

We run lsm s 937 keyed lifters and they r very nice pieces. Had to replace one and The guys at lsm we're very quick to send one out and sent a bushing with it just incase it had to be changed.

Reason this engine has the keyed lifters in was so the cable train geometry could be fixed with the b1ts heads and the cam is up past a inch lift with a 60mm profile.

I would look at lsm.
Posted By: Dos Snails

Re: key way lifters - 01/05/11 01:28 AM

Quote:

ok guys just got a call from my buddy and was told by the place he got the block that he has to have the 937 key way lifters...ive been on jesal site but no price info so any of you guys that are warehouse dealers for the keyway lifters shoot me a pm my buddy is looking for a set thanks mike or no where he can get a set thanks

Look on Ebay, that's were the used Nascar stff ends up. Also he can also go with the Jesel dog bones that don't require the keyway...
Posted By: earthmover

Re: key way lifters - 01/05/11 04:42 PM

have a new ??? for you guys about the key way lifters he has to run the 937 lifter is there a diff. in the 2 jesal have listed besides the roller ??? i see in a few post offset is mentioned but do 937 have a offset of just roller size diff? and if only roller size why the diff. size weight or something to do with the cam??? sorry for all the ???? mike
Posted By: mafo

Re: key way lifters - 01/05/11 09:33 PM

there are one straight up and at least 2 different offset lifters and also one type that has a longer body ...

I found some info here

http://jesel.com/index.php?categoryid=26

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5767315&Main=5727955
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