Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read..

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/11/10 05:04 AM

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It's simple, really...

They're going to force us back to towing an open car trailer with a pickup or van.

That is all I have! LOL Budget racer here...

Don't get too excited.. THEY are after you next.. California already has some weird laws about flatbed trailers.
Other States will follow the leader..

They have one that says something about any 3 axle trailer over 6000lbs gvw must have a Class B and any trailer over 10,000 gvw's the same thing..

It's coming..

Chris..

Posted By: 408Dust

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/11/10 05:05 AM

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25.00 dollar over length permit in Florida will save you 1,000.00.BS law has been in Florida for some time now.

very true but I have never seen a racer get hassled or a ticket because of it.

2 years ago some class racers going to the gators from up north caught some flack,depends who and what stops you...

Posted By: Sinitro

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/11/10 05:08 AM

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Well, if you have a Motorhome or long rig you need to be aware of what's coming down in the now and future.

Since the States are broke, they need revenue. Tickets are revenue. I know there has been several posts on this, including the one last year by BGR.
But, I now know a good friend who got a very large ticket coming home from Pomona.

It was for over length in a Motorhome/Trailer combo. It's 65' in CA. His Combo is over 70'..
CHP said SHE got 3 others for the same thing on her shift..

So you say MH's are exempt?? Not in California any more.. He also got a "NO CDL" ticket too.. Why?? Because the MH has a GVW of 29,000 on the door.. Anything over 25,999 must have a CDL in CA. Over $450.00 so far, and now has to go to court in Indio or Blythe CA. and get legal with a CDL..

You will have to go to Needles..
Though Needles is an isolated cowtown, the judge in traffic court is actually pretty reasonable..
Before one panics, think through each violation and be prepared to rationalize with the judge explaining you didn't know all the nitty gritty stuff..

I got a speeding ticket on Interstate 40 doing about 100 MPH @ 11:00PM and was clocked by radar..
When I went to court, the judge cut it down to 80MPH in a 70 zone. And gave me traffic school even though I had traffic school 2 months prior...

Cost me $85 and no points..

Just my $0.02..

Posted By: dennismopar73

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/11/10 05:40 AM

ill has same rules
they havent been enforced as yet
what i see is guy with there 40 ft trailers
crew cabs with b truck plates
no inspection on truck or trailer,
drivers with no cdl

too long of combos

we do it to ourself and if that truck and trailer is ran as a buisness,, aka R & M racing
,, ifta stickers all kinda vehicule rule then apply that you are not thinking about
fuel stickers are needed for out of state use or
travel

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/11/10 05:55 AM

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ill has same rules
they havent been enforced as yet
what i see is guy with there 40 ft trailers
crew cabs with b truck plates
no inspection on truck or trailer,
drivers with no cdl
too long of combos
we do it to ourself and if that truck and trailer is ran as a buisness,, aka R & M racing
,, ifta stickers all kinda vehicule rule then apply that you are not thinking about
fuel stickers are needed for out of state use or
travel

And they are all driving 55mph

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/11/10 06:57 AM

there's very few of us that have to be concened about the length issues. However the last lengthy thread about towing was based upon the clarification of when is the term "commercial" really apply to the average racer . should you have a CDL or not if not exempted by towing with a motorhome but a dualie etc.. That we should all be aware of and how to deal with it.The chances of that being a reason to have the troopers or locals write you are much greater.
there is a provions written in federal CDL,laws to protect us. after that thread I carry a copy in the glovebox.
techniaclly unless they can do tax return on the spot they can't write you up

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Question 21: Does the exemption in �390.3(f)(3) for the ��occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise�� apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?

Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.

Posted By: Eric

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/11/10 02:05 PM

No offense guys but at the length of some of these rigs a CDL probably would'nt be a bad idea...

....Whats a standard big rig...53' plus the tractor?....I'm sure most are able to handle what they tow...but there are exceptions...

Posted By: RATPATROL

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/11/10 02:45 PM

here in michigan its 65ft. max. i do not think they bother private rigs but that could be changing as the state needs money and been really watching comercial rigs, i drive a car hauler that has special permit for 75ft. and have been pulled over (3 times this year)and checked for length and weight (permit for 80k)also the car can not be more than 4ft. pass taillights.

Posted By: plasticfantastic

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/11/10 03:49 PM

this is just a question i kept thinking of as i was reading this post...

if you are leagal in the state you are registered in, what difference are the laws of a state your passing through?

Michigan you are not required to have a front license plate, BUT you are in Ohio, so that doesnt mean everytime someone runs down to toledo they have to put on a front license plate to be legal with ohio laws.
i know that example seems pretty out there and has nothing to do with CDL and lengths and all that are being discussed here, but its an example of what i'm trying to ask.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/11/10 04:11 PM

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this is just a question i kept thinking of as i was reading this post...

if you are leagal in the state you are registered in, what difference are the laws of a state your passing through?

Michigan you are not required to have a front license plate, BUT you are in Ohio, so that doesnt mean everytime someone runs down to toledo they have to put on a front license plate to be legal with ohio laws.
i know that example seems pretty out there and has nothing to do with CDL and lengths and all that are being discussed here, but its an example of what i'm trying to ask.

I think thats a great point, if you are legal in your home state you should be able to go anywhere imo. no way to know the rules for every state

you don't live there so it shouldn't matter.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/11/10 04:32 PM

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this is just a question i kept thinking of as i was reading this post...

if you are leagal in the state you are registered in, what difference are the laws of a state your passing through?

Michigan you are not required to have a front license plate, BUT you are in Ohio, so that doesnt mean everytime someone runs down to toledo they have to put on a front license plate to be legal with ohio laws.
i know that example seems pretty out there and has nothing to do with CDL and lengths and all that are being discussed here, but its an example of what i'm trying to ask.

I think thats a great point, if you are legal in your home state you should be able to go anywhere imo. no way to know the rules for every state you don't live there so it shouldn't matter.

Thats my problem with some of the other states...
here in Mich we have a permanent plate on the trailer
and it doesnt have a weight but all the guys keep
talking about a weight on the plate(maybe its a
letter code) for the trailer and a plate on the truck
with a similar weight/code for the whole rig....
we dont play that in Mich

Posted By: @#$%&*!

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/11/10 09:45 PM

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...
if you are legal in the state you are registered in, what difference are the laws of a state your passing through?

I think thats a great point, if you are legal in your home state you should be able to go anywhere imo. no way to know the rules for every state you don't live there so it shouldn't matter.

That's kinda what I was getting at when I said the feds should set the minimum interstate rules. I hate the thought of SOME states setting standards that will apply when driving in mine. That's not all that different from the Mexican Truck debate. Some states have VERY low standards and very corrupt legal systems.

Posted By: MFR426

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/11/10 11:25 PM

I went to the NTCI (National Transportation Consultants, Inc.) company that is located in my home town. They were listed in one of the many previous posts on this subject. They were at one of the trade shows and expressed an interest in helping us racers with this issue. I wrote up several scenarios (truck/trailer, motorhome/trailer, etc) for them which they put together and sent to the FMCSA (Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration)as questions to be answered and ruled on. This was over a year ago and they still have not received any answers from the Feds. As they have said, "The wheels turn slowly out there." (Washington). I will continue to monitor and let you know if we get any answers. Thanks! MFR426

Posted By: dennismopar73

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 03:50 AM

ok guys ,, these are not some kinda "new law"
that just crept up
these laws have been on the books for years
the reason you see it being ticketed is because there is more of us out here going to and from
races with our big rigs 48 ft goose necks, crew cab ,,to toterhomes with double stackers ,
trying to get by on the lowest dollar,,
now you want to say its wrong
you guys went out and bought this stuff
you prob dont even have a driveway big enough
to put it in

Posted By: dennismopar73

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 03:59 AM

also just rememember youre not at home
some think you have to have youre home garage
nieghbors garage , 2 cars , ooppps 4 wheeler ooppps , golf cart
just to go racing 2 days
give me a break

Posted By: pinkduster

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 04:10 AM

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also just rememember youre not at home
some think you have to have youre home garage
nieghbors garage , 2 cars , ooppps 4 wheeler ooppps , golf cart
just to go racing 2 days
give me a break

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 04:18 AM

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also just rememember youre not at home
some think you have to have youre home garage
nieghbors garage , 2 cars , ooppps 4 wheeler ooppps , golf cart
just to go racing 2 days
give me a break

So what are you saying? I'm legal in my state but I
never know in other states... 43' 5th wheel with a
dually truck... and yes I park it next to my shop
in my yard

Posted By: Kevins493

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 05:22 AM

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It's simple, really...

They're going to force us back to towing an open car trailer with a pickup or van.

That is all I have! LOL Budget racer here...

See? we don't have to worry. Thus we are smarter!

Actually I am considering stepping up to an enclosed for a few reasons, namely because the races are 3 hours away in some cases and I need to have all my spares with me.. and we sometimes have to tow in the rain for those 3 hours which kinda sucks because the car leaks a bit.

Posted By: BryanRad

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 03:20 PM

Regardless of how new or old the laws are they are difficult to find without doing numerous hours of research. I owned a 3/4 ton pickup and car trailer that were both licensed with the WVDMV here for well over 8 years before I found out that standard license plates did not make my truck legal when I had the trailer hooked to it. We actually have a B tag plate that you pay for based on the maximum amount you want your combo to be legal for. This probably had been on the "books" for a while but only was enforced when this hot shot business got big several years ago. You would think that someone at the DMV who looked at my info on the computer every time I went in there for 8 years in a row, would have said hey I see you have a trailer and pickup do you pull that trailer with that truck.

Another case in point is weight laws, the laws that are enforced on our Interstate network on commercial trucks are different in Maryland, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia (at a minimum, I am sure there are several other differences). I understand the whole state's rights argument but how can anyone make a good point that states should be allowed to enforce different weight laws on the Interstate network which was built and maintained with almost exclusively federal dollars and is utilized for most "interstate" truck traffic. It would seem that it would just make sense that these "laws" be consistent.

Anyway, my point is unless you sit down and do extensive research on all the states you travel in, you are boned.

As far as what the guy pitted beside me chooses to bring to the track, I could care less.

I have 3 kids under 9 years old, I will probably bring a go cart to the track and I will probably have a motorhome too. Double stacker might be necessary in 7 or 8 years if the kids get into the racing as much as I am..... Didnt know there would be someone out there that actually resents someone for busting the hump and doing well for themselves.

I think you missed the point, noone is wanting to get off "cheap". The point is that states have CREATED laws which differ from state to state, it is not even remotely easy to find these laws, and the subsequent fine for your combo being 2' too long or the difference if you are hauling with an intent to make profit, etc. causes you to get a $1,000 + fine. You could probably be going 20 to 30 mph over the posted speed limit in these same states and get a 150 or 200 dollar fine. I think I know which scenario is endangering more people. Just another fine example of too many layers of government and elected officials focusing hours of effort on something only to make it more confusing and cumbersome.

Happy hauling and racing, if you're gonna go, go big.

Posted By: Blucuda413

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 04:22 PM

Here's my thought. In Louisiana when the DOT book came out I believe there was Fed pressure to all states to incorporate those laws and become more standard. Louisiana incorporated into law the complete book. However they have changed many of the requirements of the book many times. However if the DOT book is considered federal law the states can change the requirements but can't make them less lenient. Also in my view if a state incorporated the fed requirements into law they implicity incorporated the guidance book also. You can't have a fed law and a state law using the exact same words meaning two different things and the feds have provided interpretation for many requirements in the guidance book.

Posted By: Chilort

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 05:09 PM

http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm

I'm with just a few others on this. If you drive something that big you need additional training and certification.

If you have to get a special endorsement (and often additional training) to drive something smaller (motorcycle) that is similar to what most of us have been riding since we were children (bicycle, dirt bike) then you most certainly need that training for something much larger than what most people drive all day. Many state laws also apply to you the nanosecond you cross the border and you are responsible for knowing (conceal and carry law, helmet law, etc.). Ignorance does not preclude guilt.

Maybe it is because I live in Atlanta (with one of the worst state driver education programs in the country) but I see someone do something amazingly stupid every day. And now that so many big rigs are captained by someone who can't read or write and can barely speak the English language things have gotten much worse in terms of how 4-wheelers try to interact with them on the highways.

My

the laws aren't strict enough.

I mean, how did your buddy blow out two tires at the same time ? (curb). Is it possible that a little more training, education, or possibly patience would have helped that?

Posted By: Rhinodart

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 05:42 PM

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http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm

I'm with just a few others on this. If you drive something that big you need additional training and certification.

If you have to get a special endorsement (and often additional training) to drive something smaller (motorcycle) that is similar to what most of us have been riding since we were children (bicycle, dirt bike) then you most certainly need that training for something much larger than what most people drive all day. Many state laws also apply to you the nanosecond you cross the border and you are responsible for knowing (conceal and carry law, helmet law, etc.). Ignorance does not preclude guilt.

Maybe it is because I live in Atlanta (with one of the worst state driver education programs in the country) but I see someone do something amazingly stupid every day. And now that so many big rigs are captained by someone who can't read or write and can barely speak the English language things have gotten much worse in terms of how 4-wheelers try to interact with them on the highways.

My the laws aren't strict enough.

I mean, how did your buddy blow out two tires at the same time ? (curb). Is it possible that a little more training, education, or possibly patience would have helped that?

What really needs to happen is greater training for the 4-wheelers instead of more restrictive laws. I cannot understand why each State just gives away licenses to anyone who can walk!

I was at the DMV this year to finally get my CDL and there was an old guy who could not see well enough to renew his license. As I was sitting there, the clerk kept asking him to go up the chart until he could actually see the letters and numbers, then he passed!

As far as blowing out two tires, it happened to me on I-10 90 miles from El Paso. One tire came apart and took the next one with it, happens all the time.

There is so much junk and potholes on the roads nowaday due to States NOT having the money to fix/clean-up the roadways it is only going to get worse...

Posted By: BryanRad

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 06:14 PM

I totally agree on additional training, etc., I was able to go buy a 31' Motorhome a few years ago and take off in it with my regular drivers license. Yet again another issue that should be more of a federal law and not a different state law for each and every state.

Posted By: dennismopar73

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 09:37 PM

not really trying to bust anyones chops out here

but it just to funny that some out go from 'just a pickup pulling open trailer' to something bigger than ocean liner queen capt,
stacker and say to his-self same laws apply
i should be esemtp form lenght, weight, size
license weights have been in style since before 1965,
and as for diff states if you are legal in youre state on lenght , height, plates and license
grades
you will not have problems other states
but if youre running it as a buisness then
you have to know the laws and what it takes to be legal stickers lenght breath , weight
and what roads to be on and not be on
ignorance is not an excuse to make ,
you build youre race cars knowing exactly
what rules to follow
but yet you could care less about saftey of getting you ,youre family,, and other families
that travel the same roads as you
by the way i was a cop for over 10 years
worked in saftey dept for a large trucking co, for another 5 years ,,
saftey is the basic factor in all these issues
the fines are because people want to get by the cheapest way out then blame the state ,, police, because they get caught doing what they know was wrong to begin with
if i make you mad im sorry but thats the truth

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 09:42 PM

Just wanted to throw this point out there too..Sonce there is plenty of points being made about how these laws are from the Feds..

Try convincing the IRS that your racing is a business. See how far that gets you in an audit. For the most part 99% of racers will claim ANY income earned as normal income on there 1040, filing as a business. Just more of the inconsistency that exists.

Oh yeah FWIW in Cali if you want to drive a motorhome and trailer you will need a NON COMMERCIAL class B license. IF you are stopped by a trooper here and do not have a license from what ever state that meets this states requirement you will be ticketed. Kinda stupid but that is how it is. I am sure most states are similar.

Posted By: jnkgal

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 09:53 PM

Quote:

also just rememember youre not at home
some think you have to have youre home garage
nieghbors garage , 2 cars , ooppps 4 wheeler ooppps , golf cart
just to go racing 2 days
give me a break

Posted By: BryanRad

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 11:07 PM

Regardless of what I have had or what I may to plan or look forward to having in the future, once again you totally missed the point again. And FYI, I have earned everything I have had and will have (the good old american/non socialist way).

Again, I have no issue with safety whatsoever. I do have an issue with governmental agencies having the ability to create and enforce different laws on an INTERSTATE highway network. With your enforcement and safety background, I would hope you would agree that a guy with a motorhome and trailer that is 1 or 2' over length in a state and isnt aware is not near of a safety risk to the travelling public as a guy doing 20+ mph over the speed limit. The fines in some states absolutely do not reflect this.

I think you need to go back and reread what I wrote, in no way shape or form did what I wrote say a guy with a 1/2 ton pickup and open trailer should have the same regulations as a 40' motorhome pulling a double stacker. If you read my second post on the subject, I actually agreed with another member that stated there should be some sort of training, additional licensure requirements for someone drving such a vehicle.

Again, in case you missed it the second or third time. My point is that these laws should be more consistent from state to state and easier to keep track of and conform to.

Oh by the way, I am not mad. Takes a lot more that a post on a web board about something so trivial to get me mad.

Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 11:23 PM

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Just wanted to throw this point out there too..Sonce there is plenty of points being made about how these laws are from the Feds..

Try convincing the IRS that your racing is a business. See how far that gets you in an audit. For the most part 99% of racers will claim ANY income earned as normal income on there 1040, filing as a business. Just more of the inconsistency that exists.

Oh yeah FWIW in Cali if you want to drive a motorhome and trailer you will need a NON COMMERCIAL class B license. IF you are stopped by a trooper here and do not have a license from what ever state that meets this states requirement you will be ticketed. Kinda stupid but that is how it is. I am sure most states are similar.

get a good attorney and take it to court and you will win if you are legal in your home state they have to accept it in what ever state it is call reciptory here in Fl you need no special license for a motorhome so other states cannot require me to have something else for traveling through there state

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/12/10 11:59 PM

As a CDL interstate owner/operator,it is up to ME to be knowlegable about the laws of the states I operate in.All these new federal laws are in fact good and will raise the quality of trucks & drivers on our roadways.On the other side of the "coin",the law enforcement people are doing thier jobs and have "bosses" riding them to write tickets.If you get a summons out of state,chances are it is cheaper to just pay the piper then to start with lawyers and taking time off work to go and defend yourself.The court system sucks and will postpone your "TRIAL" 3 or 4 times before justice is served.So unless you did something real dumb,there are no points,just CASH$$$$$$.

Posted By: Blucuda413

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 12:11 AM

There is no reciposity between states unless it is incorporated into law. I just read the Louisiana law, Hawaii tops the list and there's only about 4 others and they are not even adjoining states. Very funny. I believe the reciposity laws for carrying concealed weapons are much better defined and with a much larger list than transportation laws.

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 12:12 AM

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No offense guys but at the length of some of these rigs a CDL probably would'nt be a bad idea... ....Whats a standard big rig...53' plus the tractor?....I'm sure most are able to handle what they tow...but there are exceptions...

I agree.. I wasn't posting this because I thought that people should be able to drive rigs like that without endorsements.

I think you should have some training in this area. I was merely telling you guys out there that they are ticketing Motorhomes now, among other things. They aren't just letting you slide anymore.

My friend who got the ticket.. We have been telling him for years to get a CDL and be done with it, but he never got one, so now he's being forced to.

Chris..

Posted By: Rhinodart

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 12:16 AM

Quote:

Just wanted to throw this point out there too..Sonce there is plenty of points being made about how these laws are from the Feds..

Try convincing the IRS that your racing is a business. See how far that gets you in an audit. For the most part 99% of racers will claim ANY income earned as normal income on there 1040, filing as a business. Just more of the inconsistency that exists.

Oh yeah FWIW in Cali if you want to drive a motorhome and trailer you will need a NON COMMERCIAL class B license. IF you are stopped by a trooper here and do not have a license from what ever state that meets this states requirement you will be ticketed. Kinda stupid but that is how it is. I am sure most states are similar.

Alot of States have no such thing as a Non-commercial CDL license! In Illinoise you get a Class A CDL or nothing if you want to tow over 10K lbs, pretty silly if you ask me....

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 01:08 AM

Many states you dont have an option, it is a CDL or else. Keep in mind a CDL has plenty of requirements to obtain, physicals etc. In states with no motorhome provision how does one go about taking a skills test without a qualifying vehicle, in many states a motorhome will not qualify. How does one go about btaining one? Rent a truck, without a license

I have been on both sides of this issue, while I agree something has to be done there needs to be some sort continuity. That was my point. One federal agency says you are not a business another says you are, then get the states involoved, Nevada says if you race for money you ARE a business, no matter how big your rig(yes a pickup and open trailer count)you technically need the fuel and use permits. CA says your not. As pointed out it is a money grab as much as anything else. Not worth fighting, it cost to much, they know that as well. So the question is what the heck is a guy to do.

Posted By: sg66mopar

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 01:38 AM

OK, so what if I'm NOT racing and just towing my rig through Nevada or a similar state, let's say to have some repair work done on the car. Do they consider it commercial then?

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 02:34 AM

Well all i can tell you is IF you are towing through Nevada and you are towing a racecar they consider you a business. Thus the permits are needed.

Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 02:37 AM

A few observations.

Lettering "Not For Hire" on the motorhome, tractor, etc. and keeping all the racing decals and company logos on the trailer goes a long way to not getting pulled over as a commercial vehicle. Also, a vehicle plainly marked "Not For Hire" should be given a break on the registration fees, since they are not being used to generate income. Whether or not you actually make money racing is an IRS issue, not the DMV's.

As to common laws - does anybody really think a 90' rig that would be fine out West belongs in the mountains of West Virginia? Individual state roads and geography dictate safe lengths of vehicles.

Lobby state Department of Motor Vehicles to release a 50 state guide on what the laws are - the better people are informed, the safer it is for ALL drivers.

I don't have a problem with motorhomes, carhaulers, etc. needing the same inspections and driver CDL's as any similar sized rig - all 70', 40,000lb vehicles should have the same safety and drivers requirements, no matter what they carry. They should least have yearly inspections and updated license requirements.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 02:38 AM

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Well all i can tell you is IF you are towing through Nevada and you are towing a racecar they consider you a business. Thus the permits are needed.

what if you are not going to a race? don't see how they can consider you doing anything if they don't have proof?

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 02:44 AM

In Nevada, I only speak for what I know if you are competing for money it IS a business period! Car show, race, rodeo whatever...I have personal experiece with the issue.

Well I suppose the option to tell the truth is yours. Secondly I think if they see a racecar in or on a trailer they assume you are not just showing your car the sights. If you get pulled over you will feel a bit like you have had a full cavity search in prison. Everyting you say is a lie and everytrhing they say is gospel. Dont ask me how I know...

You cannot even get a straight answer when you call to inquire about the laws in given states. EVERY time I have called any state in regards to towing with my coach into thier state once they hear it is a motorhome they say I am not required to do anything. Dont help on the side of the road with the DOT guys but that is what they will tell you.

BTW in my opinion there is no right answer to any of this.

Oh yeah, I can almost guarantee the reason Chris's buddy got pulled over in the first place was the out of state tag. The law her eis pretty clear you have to have the equivalent of the California Class B non commercial license to drive any motorhome/toter over 45' in length or any combo over 65'. Easy pickens as AZ or NV dont have the same licensure.

Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 02:45 AM

dont plaster your car with stickers and then it is just a show car.

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 02:50 AM

Aint gonna matter. They will give you the ticket and it will be up to you to prove otherwise. Been there done that...That is my entire point. They target out of state plates knowing 99% of the time they will be collecting the fine. To costly to fight easy money.

Posted By: BryanRad

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 02:52 AM

"As to common laws - does anybody really think a 90' rig that would be fine out West belongs in the mountains of West Virginia? Individual state roads and geography dictate safe lengths of vehicles."

Have you ever been out west? There are real mountains out there, we just have hills in West Virginia. The Interstate Highway system was designed for the most part to a standard set of engineering guidelines. The combined length, weight, height, licensure requirements, on and on and on should be the same no matter where you are in the country.

Posted By: Locomotion

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 03:00 AM

Quote:

In Nevada, I only speak for what I know if you are competing for money it IS a business period! Car show, race, rodeo whatever...I have personal experiece with the issue.

So shouldn't most of the people visiting the casinos in Las Vegas for gambling be considered "for profit" businesses? "Poker" is a form of competition! I wonder how the cops/judges would explain that.

"dont plaster your car with stickers and then it is just a show car."

When is the last time you heard of a race car plastered with decals and advertising on an open trailer get stopped by the DOT? While it may have happened, I'm sure it would be a pretty big difference in numbers.

Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 03:01 AM

I guess it is a good thing I go no further than Ga to race.

Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 03:17 AM

There's a ton of misinformation in this thread. For one thing, "Not for Hire" don't mean squat on the side of your rig. It just makes you look stupid.

My tank trucks at work that I operate are"not for hire" But yet they are hauling hazmat products everyday and are subject to all the rules. Been operating a small fleet of tanker and hazmat flatbeds(14) since 1984.

The length thing in a few states is nothing new. It was a big story on the NHRA tour like 10 years ago.

Your buddy got hasseled because he stood out. Broke down on the side of the road get's there attention.
I hope he didn't have decals on the outside of his MH stating 29000lbs, because that would make him commercial.

I don't believe you need a CDL license in California for a motorhome over 26000 lbs.

What's your buddys motorhome look like?

Also what is a "class B non com license"?

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 03:59 AM

Here you go..It is a Cali thing. here it is from thier site. It cannot be more confusing trust me. My coach is UNDER 40' but if the combined length of the coach and trailer is over 65 you need the Class B. That is until you go the the DMV office and ask, then you get the dear in the headlights look....However when you follow the links and read the book from the CA DMV you are not required to have a class B on a coach under 40', states nothing about o/a length if your coach is under 40'

BTW as part of the skills test if you have a coach equipped with air brakes you are NOT required to pass the air brake system test

Some states make it very difficult to be a law abiding citizen.

Over-Length Motorhome: An over-length motorhome is a single-unit motorhome that is longer than 40 feet but not more than 45 feet. (Note: A vehicle combination, e.g. a motorhome towing a vehicle or trailer, may be up to 65 feet length. If the single-unit motorhome is 40 feet or less in length, the combination is not subject to the over-length motorhome restrictions.)

Motorhome: A motorhome is a noncommercial passenger vehicle defined in the California Vehicle Code (CVC) Section 465 as a "house car" and commonly referred to as a recreation vehicle. CVC 362 defines "house car" as "a motor vehicle originally designed, or permanently altered, and equipped for human habitation, or to which a camper has been permanently attached." A motorhome should not to be confused with a bus (CVC 233) or a tour bus (CVC 612), also called "motorcoach," which is used for commercial passenger transportation and requires a commercial driver license to operate. See also Public Utilities Code 5360-5379.5 and 226.

BACKGROUND

The basic California length law for vehicles is 40 feet unless specifically exempted. On October 9, 2001, Governor Davis signed Assembly Bill (AB) 67 which changed the California Vehicle Code (CVC) to allow motorhomes over 40 feet in length, up to 45 feet, on certain routes. Over-length motorhomes are allowed on interstates and on those State routes that can accommodate them.

A Noncommercial Class B license and endorsement is required if you operate:

�A housecar over 40 feet but not over 45 feet.
Exemptions: Holders of a commercial Class A or B license, a noncommercial Class A license, and all fire fighter license classes

DRIVER LICENSE REQUIREMENTS

The CVC requires a motorhome endorsement on a noncommercial class B driver license issued by the California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). The pertinent CVC sections are copied below under "Legal History."

Application: Click on this DMV website for commercial vehicle licensing and scroll down to these three topics: "How to apply for a noncommercial driver license," "Requirements for a Noncommercial Class B driver permit," and "Requirements for a Noncommercial Class B driver license." The driver must pass a written and skills examination (i.e. a driving test), submit a specified medical form, and pay a $34 fee. You may use the on-line DMV booklet Recreational Vehicles & Trailers (DL-648) to prepare for the exam. The booklet may also be available at the local DMV field offices that test motorhomes. To set up an appointment, or locate a booklet, you may call DMV at 1-800-777-0133.

The medical exam must be repeated every two years. The license is valid for approximately five years.

Out-of-State Drivers: Non-residents visiting California may not operate an over-length motorhome unless in possession of an out-of-state driver license authorizing the operation of that vehicle. See CVC Section 12804.15(b)(2) which is also copied below under "Legal History."

Posted By: jcc

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 07:24 AM

Quote:

There's a ton of misinformation in this thread. For one thing, "Not for Hire" don't mean squat on the side of your rig. It just makes you look stupid.

, Thats funny, but it actually makes my life easier by sorting out the wannabes.

Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 10:53 AM

Quote:

Quote:

There's a ton of misinformation in this thread. For one thing, "Not for Hire" don't mean squat on the side of your rig. It just makes you look stupid.

, Thats funny, but it actually makes my life easier by sorting out the wannabes.

Looking stupid or not, a few years ago I picked up a new rollback wrecker for a friends towing service; I drove to Wisconsin and put my Intrepid on the back for the return trip. I was pulled to the back at TWO different weigh stations - once in Ohio, once in Mi - both times for no Commercial lettering. I was told the only thing that saved me from a ticket was the car on the bed was registered to me - otherwise the wrecker (because of the GVW) needed either commercial lettering or a "Not for Hire" (or a non-commercial designation) on both sides. In Mi, all commercial vehicles need to be lettered, whether it is enforced or not. This summer they cracked down on all the new "lawn services" that sprung up around here _- two guys, a beat up truck, and an open trailer with mowers, etc. - no ID on doors got ticketed for not being ID'ed as commercial. Yeah, even the Pizza Geeks sign on the top of the car has to be there, because the car is being used as commercial.

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 12:09 PM

Quote:

There's a ton of misinformation in this thread. For one thing, "Not for Hire" don't mean squat on the side of your rig. It just makes you look stupid.

My tank trucks at work that I operate are"not for hire" But yet they are hauling hazmat products everyday and are subject to all the rules. Been operating a small fleet of tanker and hazmat flatbeds(14) since 1984.

The length thing in a few states is nothing new. It was a big story on the NHRA tour like 10 years ago.

Your buddy got hasseled because he stood out. Broke down on the side of the road get's there attention.
I hope he didn't have decals on the outside of his MH stating 29000lbs, because that would make him commercial.

I don't believe you need a CDL license in California for a motorhome over 26000 lbs.

What's your buddys motorhome look like?

Also what is a "class B non com license"?

Motorhome is a Diesel Pusher, air brakes, big Cat or Cummins in it. I think It's 38'.. Very nice coach. The one tire blew and took out the other..

Trailer is 30' stacker.. I'm sure you can add that up.

The CHP looked at the tag on the coach to see the 29000#..

Their Legalizing of Pot in CA. didn't pass, so they really need cash now...

Al.. Now we're really confused..

Chris..

Posted By: @#$%&*!

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 05:48 PM

I believe the 'C' in CDL stands for Commercial

I'd be happy with an additional written and skills test. I had to get a motorcycle endorsement.

Quote:

Alot of States have no such thing as a Non-commercial CDL license! In Illinoise you get a Class A CDL or nothing if you want to tow over 10K lbs, pretty silly if you ask me....

Posted By: sg66mopar

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 06:01 PM

Well, this whole thing has me really confused. If I have to get a CDL to drive a motorhome but I don't have a vehicle for the test, exactly what am I suppose to do? Not everbody owns a commercial truck to use for the test.

Al, you said you've been there with the state of Nevada. How do you go about paying the fees so you don't get a ticket?

I'm thinking I don't want to risk going to Nevada for MATS, the Division race in Fallon or any of the Division races or National events at The Strip.

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 06:10 PM

Go here

http://www.dmvnv.com/mchome.html

In Nevada the permits are required for anything over 10,001 lbs that THEY deem commercial. Race cars are deemed commercial as far as the DOT and troopers are concerned. There is a list of vendors you can get them from on the site.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/13/10 07:01 PM

Most times it up to the disgression of the officer.Since my runin with the state police I have done everything necessary for PENDOT.Daully is plated class-8 combo(23600#) trailer is inspected twice a year,carry my medical card and have CDL licence.I even pull in the scales when there open,they just wave me through.

On a footnote,last year while entering a toll plaza on Route 66 we were all pulled over and checked for licence,inspections,trailer hookups,tires,lights and brake-a-way switches.Many had to drop their trailers untill all saftey related repairs were made.There has been a hightened awareness and crack down on towing since there has been multipal deaths resulting from improper trailer hookups that came loose.

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read.. - 12/14/10 12:09 AM

Quote:

Well, this whole thing has me really confused. If I have to get a CDL to drive a motorhome but I don't have a vehicle for the test, exactly what am I suppose to do? Not everbody owns a commercial truck to use for the test.

Al, you said you've been there with the state of Nevada. How do you go about paying the fees so you don't get a ticket?

I'm thinking I don't want to risk going to Nevada for MATS, the Division race in Fallon or any of the Division races or National events at The Strip.

Just Borrow a trailer and a pickup with a GVWR of over 10,001# and take the class B test. It is $50.00 in AZ. Not sure about Oregon.
The DMV may tell you that you don't need one, but tell that to the trooper writing you the ticket..

It's funny, because I'm sure if you got pulled over with the license, the officer would tell you that you didn't need one anyway.. It's a no win situation here.

BTW.. The Class B or any other CDL license doesn't exempt you from length..

Chris..

Racers Who Tow with Motorhomes.. Read..