External balance and which balancer?

Posted By: mshred

External balance and which balancer? - 12/09/10 06:22 PM

Hey guys,

Im starting to plan out the final stages of my build for my 91 360 motor. My first question is regarding balancing. I will be using KB107 pistons, Scat I beam rods, and the stock 360 cast crank. I have a 440 source flywheel that is neutral balance with an add on weight for external balance. I was wondering, should i keep the rotating assembly external balance, or should i go internal? what dictates the switch? I only plan on revving to about 6500-7k max. Will external hold up fine for this?

My second question regards balancers. Ive done some searching here and on other forums and have gotten the impression that pro products is garbage, as are the low end summit ones. I dont have the money or need for an ATI, fluidamper, or TCI rattler. I was thinking more along the lines of a pioneer race balancer, a BHJ, or a pro race street balancer. Would these work well in an application like mine? Could i get away with using the stock balancer and have it work?

The goal is for a motor that takes my 3400 pouns a-body into the high 11's and is a reliable fun street car

any help is appreciated! As always i value everyone's opinion since i know nothing on these subjects
Thanks!

Posted By: SRT6776

Re: External balance and which balancer? - 12/09/10 09:09 PM

Internal balance will remove material from the crank to get it balanced. I think the old myth is that you shouldnt do it unless its a forged crank but my old 360 (73) was internally balanced (and knife edged). Be prepared to spend some coin.

I am sure external is fine for your goals..

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: External balance and which balancer? - 12/09/10 09:31 PM

Quote:

Internal balance will remove material from the crank to get it balanced. I think the old myth is that you shouldnt do it unless its a forged crank but my old 360 (73) was internally balanced (and knife edged). Be prepared to spend some coin.

I am sure external is fine for your goals..

Must have add a bunch of mallory to that crank?

Posted By: Locomotion

Re: External balance and which balancer? - 12/10/10 12:12 AM

Internal balancing helps a little with crank & bearing life, especially with all-out race engines, but as noted, it's not really necessary for your application. It is very expensive. Weight is typically added to the crank for internal balancing unless the rods & pistons area lot lighter than OEM.

But you still have to get the whole thing balanced on a machine because of the mixture of parts.

I've been using Pioneer SFI balancers on my 360's for years. Mine are internally balanced so I have a neutral balancer/damper. But they have the counterweighted 360 version. Summit may sell them and Jeg's may have them under their label.

Pioneer SFI balancer #'s:

872038 for the external balance 360
872037 for the 318/340 and any internallyu balanced small blocks.

Posted By: mshred

Re: External balance and which balancer? - 12/10/10 12:16 AM

Hey guys, thanks for the info

I know adding mallory is EXPENSIVE. Im not sure if the KB pistons im going to use and the scat rods are lighter or heavier than the factory stuff. I will get it balanced regardless, was just wondering which direction to go with it.

Has anybody used any of the dampers that i mentioned? I want something that works without having to spend 300 bucks on a race unit or 99
bucks on something that will c%$@ out in a week. What do you guys suggest?

Posted By: 72swgnr

Re: External balance and which balancer? - 12/10/10 12:32 AM

Quote:

Hey guys, thanks for the info

I know adding mallory is EXPENSIVE. Im not sure if the KB pistons im going to use and the scat rods are lighter or heavier than the factory stuff. I will get it balanced regardless, was just wondering which direction to go with it.

Has anybody used any of the dampers that i mentioned? I want something that works without having to spend 300 bucks on a race unit or 99
bucks on something that will c%$@ out in a week. What do you guys suggest?

Just got my 360 parts back from the machine shop. I did the external ballance and used a B&M flexplate so I don't have to worry about running the ballance weight on the converter. I'm running KB 191 pistons and K1 H-beam rods. The pistons and rods are both lighter than the stock rods and pistons in my case.

I got my block dipped,cam bearings installed, freeze plugs, bored .030 over crank turned (with bearings) and a ballance job for a little over 600 bucks.

Posted By: mshred

Re: External balance and which balancer? - 12/10/10 12:49 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Hey guys, thanks for the info

I know adding mallory is EXPENSIVE. Im not sure if the KB pistons im going to use and the scat rods are lighter or heavier than the factory stuff. I will get it balanced regardless, was just wondering which direction to go with it.

Has anybody used any of the dampers that i mentioned? I want something that works without having to spend 300 bucks on a race unit or 99
bucks on something that will c%$@ out in a week. What do you guys suggest?

Just got my 360 parts back from the machine shop. I did the external ballance and used a B&M flexplate so I don't have to worry about running the ballance weight on the converter. I'm running KB 191 pistons and K1 H-beam rods. The pistons and rods are both lighter than the stock rods and pistons in my case.

I got my block dipped,cam bearings installed, freeze plugs, bored .030 over crank turned (with bearings) and a ballance job for a little over 600 bucks.

what balancer are you using?

Posted By: 72swgnr

Re: External balance and which balancer? - 12/10/10 12:52 AM

I believe its the Pro Products one that has the changeable weights on it. The price was right and (if it makes it a few years) I will step up to a better ballancer when I decide to put a 4" crank in.

Posted By: 408Dust

Re: External balance and which balancer? - 12/10/10 02:31 AM

Quote:

I believe its the Pro Products one that has the changeable weights on it. The price was right and (if it makes it a few years) I will step up to a better ballancer when I decide to put a 4" crank in.

Cross your fingers real hard and maybe you will get a couple years out of that wanna be balancer.Had two of them and both of them failed,do your self a favor and get a better one.

Posted By: redmist

Re: External balance and which balancer? - 12/10/10 02:45 AM

I have a TCI "rattler" but my engine builder says it is junk...

Do I toss it? or Run it!!

Posted By: mshred

Re: External balance and which balancer? - 12/10/10 04:26 AM

What about pioneer, BHJ, Romac, or pro race? Anyone use any of those balancers? How do you guys like em?

Posted By: mshred

Re: External balance and which balancer? - 12/10/10 04:27 AM

Quote:

I have a TCI "rattler" but my engine builder says it is junk...

Do I toss it? or Run it!!

thats strange, i hear most guys say its a good balancer. Its priced like that too lol

Posted By: Blues_Cuda

Re: External balance and which balancer? - 12/10/10 05:07 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I believe its the Pro Products one that has the changeable weights on it. The price was right and (if it makes it a few years) I will step up to a better ballancer when I decide to put a 4" crank in.

Cross your fingers real hard and maybe you will get a couple years out of that wanna be balancer.Had two of them and both of them failed,do your self a favor and get a better one.

Had one slip the outer ring last year and plan to remove the free replacement they gave me over the winter. I knew it was a cheap balancer going into it, but wrongly assumed it would have been better than a stock 36 year old factory balancer that was pushing the 'rubber' out the back.

A low buck cast crank 440 in my case.