Moparts

Injector Stack vs. SM Intake

Posted By: mokid

Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/07/10 03:24 PM

I have a chance to buy a injector tube type intake from indy the type that goes on sprint motors, But I currently run a CFE S.M intake with a single Dominator can anyone give me pros and cons of injected over carb?
Posted By: tubtar

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/07/10 04:44 PM

This is just heresay and opinion......I have no experience with injected and stack set up other than almost buying one for a SBC years ago.
I have seen them running on a serious street motor , but it idled around 2,000 and I was told that it isn't very tractable through low to mid r.p.m. , but made a right fine on - off switch.
They are geared for W.O.T. use primarily , though tuning will obviously make them work through a set range i.e. road racing.
Getting the complete set up would cost more for injected if buying new.
And the show and tell factor is off the charts.
I thought about plumbing one for EFI , which would clear up most driveability issues.
I don't know that there would be a significant H.P. increase over a carb and sheetmetal intake unless your motor could swallow more air than the carb will allow.
Posted By: mokid

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/07/10 05:19 PM

Set up sits on a W7 small block I believe its a 440 cu in car ran inthe low 8's in a 3200 lb conquest, The entire motor is for sale, Very sad story a true mopar racer died of cancer his wife and best friend now are selling everything including Hemi Alum block, a complete 572 hemi block that has 440 heads, several race small blocks, also cars a 67 Barracuda just out of the body shop, a 65 Barracuda full tube chassis running a 440 with a pro charger best of everthing, never got to race car before he died, also a 67 cornet show quality with a Alumn Hemi never run. If any interested parties please let me know.
Posted By: Slingshot383

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/07/10 06:15 PM

Stack injection on alcohol will make more power than a carb on alcohol, and if you are starting from scratch, the costs is comparable. If the system came of a sprint car motor with W-7 heads, it will not bolt straight on a set of 440 heads.
Posted By: mokid

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/07/10 06:51 PM

No it's on a 440 cu in W7 head motor mine is a W8
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/07/10 11:55 PM

The IR throttles have to be really huge to beat a carbureted plenum manifold.
Posted By: tubtar

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/08/10 12:54 AM

Quote:

The IR throttles have to be really huge to beat a carbureted plenum manifold.




This kind of formed my opinion........they seem to start at 2 1/8" dia and go up from there on small block set ups I have seen........telling me that they will allow huge amounts of air in.
And if you don't have the arrangement that requires this , a carb would be a better choice.
Again.....purely guess work from my corner.
But it seems to work on paper.
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/08/10 04:08 AM

That's not very big. Crower used 2.90" stacks on 427" BBC 40 years ago.
Posted By: Mike Swann

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/08/10 04:50 AM

Quote:

That's not very big. Crower used 2.90" stacks on 427" BBC 40 years ago.




CanAm McLarens in the late 60's
Posted By: 40ford

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/08/10 01:57 PM

Individual runner injectors(AKA Hilborn and others) have advantages and disadvantages compared to a standard carb.

The IRs don't idle well and don't accelerate well off idle----they don't have an acceleration pump as carbs.

But if you are going to keep the RPMs above 4000, the throttle response is much better than a carb. A carb depends on engine vacuum to flow fuel---the IR flows fuel based on the mechanical metering block so fuel flow is instanteous, and the nozzles are very close to the valve. Throttle response is the reason sprint cars use them with great success.

In the past, IRs suffered compared to large plenium carb setups because of the smaller runner size---but this has been corrected with later IRs with runner size of over 3" in diameter. These large runner IRs allow RPMs as high as you are willing to run with good HP AND you can taylor each cylinder to max fuel/air mixture. You don't have to worry about rich/lean cylinders.

There is a learning curve with IRs---don't try to shortcut it!
Posted By: Slingshot383

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/08/10 06:10 PM

The Indy 8-Stack is a 2.90" throttle bore, and Engler Machine and tool can make them much larger than that. A properly set up mechanical fuel injection unit will work at lower rpm's than 4000, and will also have a clean idle.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/08/10 10:25 PM

Quote:

The Indy 8-Stack is a 2.90" throttle bore, and Engler Machine and tool can make them much larger than that. A properly set up mechanical fuel injection unit will work at lower rpm's than 4000, and will also have a clean idle.




I agree with the last 2 posters.

I have run 2 different stack injections and have out run all carbs.

I could see driving them on the street, no problem. I even used my N2O system to prime the motor to start,one man job.
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/09/10 12:46 AM

The IRs don't idle well and don't accelerate well off idle----they don't have an acceleration pump as carbs.

Backward.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/09/10 01:33 AM

Quote:

The IRs don't idle well and don't accelerate well off idle----they don't have an acceleration pump as carbs.

Backward.




BS Injection is crisper than carbs. Your talking to someone who has done a ton of tuning. I'm a expert stack injection user, I can make em sing loudly.
Posted By: polyspheric

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/09/10 06:45 AM

So, by BS - you mean I'm right.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/09/10 12:52 PM

Quote:

So, by BS - you mean I'm right.




Sorry I was confused, I thought that was your quote.
Posted By: 40ford

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/09/10 02:07 PM

Maybe I am wrong----maybe you can get IRs to idle well-----or maybe our little pipsqueak engine is too small----we just don't concern ourselves with idle or lower RPMs----as long as it is smooth at staging and throughout the RPM range, we are happy.

Been wrong before, will be wrong before the end of the day!
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/09/10 02:47 PM

Kinsler split shafts allow a good idle.
A even idle is really important so all plugs are heated the same before the run.
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/09/10 02:52 PM

Mechanical stack injection is finickie to adjust.You have a high speed bypass and idle bypass to control excessive fuel,a main jet or pill controls the fuel feed,a slotted valve that increases the slot size is the throttle control.All the bypass and main feeds are controlled by pill size ,similar to jets.Many manufactures have modified these systems for better throttle characteristics.We just adjust for the best idle and maximum wide open throttle performance.We don't recommend mechanical stack injection for the street unless it is set up with a EFI system.
Posted By: Mike Swann

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/09/10 03:42 PM

Ive seen guys do conversions where they have EFI injectors on the underside of the stacks , connect MAP to all of the stacks with small tubes on the outside to a miniature manifold and a TPS on one throttle shaft. Works really nice for the street.
Posted By: Slingshot383

Re: Injector Stack vs. SM Intake - 11/09/10 06:11 PM

Mechanical fuel injection is more race oriented than for the street. It is also easy to work on and tune, the problem is that most people start out learing how to tune carbs and then try to apply the same methods to fuel injection. I can make my little motor idle at 800 rpm in gear, and launch with a 1.20 short time. Of course it's much happier launching at 6200, but that's more the cam and heads than the injection.
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