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What will it make, 518 UPDATE

Posted By: Cab_Burge

What will it make, 518 UPDATE - 10/27/10 04:14 AM

I'm getting ready to retest my pump gas 518 C.I. low deck stroker motor, I have tested this motor before with different heads, intakes, camshafts, crankshafts, compression ratio and different dyno brands. The last time I had it on a engine dyno was several years back, I tested it on the Studka dyno that Rodneys now runs , the motor had a set of Eddy RPM CNC ported by MCH that flowed 319 CFM at .600 on Jeffs bench, six pak intake and carbs on OR pump gas. The best pulls resulted in 718 Hp at 5800 RPMs and 744 Ft Lbs at around 4500 to 4800 RPM. I decided to change the heads to a set of Indy 40-1 CNC ported by MCH that flowed right at 370 CFM at .700 lift and a Indy 400-3 intake with a Summit two inch cloverleaf phenolic spacer. I will test four different Holley 1050 Dominators, one 9375HP, two 9375 non HP and one modified early 9375 with annular boosters Rodney was kind enough to test the 9375 annular carb. for me several weeks back so it will be interesting to see which carb. will make the most power Take a guess on HP at what RPM and torque also BTW, the 518 will go back into the Duster this winter , if it survives another test session See the last post by me on this for the updates
Posted By: Performance Only

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 04:35 AM

couldn't even take a WAG without knowing more about the combo.
isn't that stuska dyno the one you found out was about 100 HP happy over a couple other ones you used?
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 05:04 AM

Quote:

couldn't even take a WAG without knowing more about the combo.
isn't that stuska dyno the one you found out was about 100 HP happy over a couple other ones you used?

I will provide what I forgot The other dyno operator(before Rodney) insisted that he calibrated it before every dnyo session each day I'm taking this motor back to the DTS which is at 4100 Ft above sea level, the Studka is at 2500 FT ASL. I forgot to mention on the first post that I'm using the same cam and lifters as before, Comp Cams solid roller with 260 @.050 intake with .420 lobe lift, 266 @.050 exhaust with .409 lobe lift. Harland Sharp 1.6 rockers(check to be right 1.64 actual net ratio at the retainers Manton 3/8 .145 wall thickness Stage 3 pushrods, PAC valve springs with around 50 lbs more seat and opend pressures than before, was 250 to 260 lbs seat, now 325 lbs on the seats, was 650 to 660 lbs opened, now 720 to 730 lbs open with Comp Cams 10 degree tool steel retainers and locks.The Eddy heads had Comp Cams Titianum 10 degree reatiners and keepers. The 440-1 heads have 8 cc smaller chambers so the new compression ratio is now 10.84 to 1 versus 10.29 to 1 before. Enjoy I'll post the results tomorrow evening, time permitting and the creek don't rise
Posted By: 9 Sec Phill

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 05:38 AM

I dont care what it makes CAB, just have fun and learn what you can. Try to make more then two pulls per swap. Enjoy my friend, I know you enjoy these days....Phill
Posted By: all spooled up

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 05:41 AM

803 @ 6100
Posted By: AndyF

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 05:51 AM

I'll be interested to see the numbers. The dyno I usually use is still down waiting for repairs after my last test session. I wouldn't mind bringing that motor over there and running it on Rodney's setup just to compare dynos.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 06:49 AM

Quote:

I'll be interested to see the numbers. The dyno I usually use is still down waiting for repairs after my last test session. I wouldn't mind bringing that motor over there and running it on Rodney's setup just to compare dynos.

Come on over, you may be suprised on the differences in the differnt dyno machines and how they operate. I'm spoiled on the DTS, Superflows and the new Studkas like Rodneys
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 10:35 AM

on the happy dyno 1200hp
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 01:17 PM

Once Rodney learned how and calibrated the Studka dyno it lost right at a hundred HP and torque from one pull to the next after the calibration. It gets calibrated regulary now
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 02:05 PM

My guess is around 785hp on a conservative dyno (so about 860 on 'happy' one )

I'm real curious to see the results, sounds like your heads are about on par with my Chapmans, I know you've got more Cam and the big single but still it ought to give me the most apples to apples since we've got near identical short blocks/cubes/heads...I've got 12:1 and looking at your spec really the cams are fairly close (264/268 @.050 HR .600/592 lift w 1/6's) too. What do the heads flow at .450 and at your peak lift? Those 2 lifts always seem to zero in on what these motors will make. for comparison mine did right at 310 @ .450 and 362 @ .600. It's not a ton of compression for a big port -1 with the big Indy intake, torque may take a little hit initially which I've seen can have an effect on the whole (momentum) curve on a dyno pull.

I kick myself for not dynoing mine, It was meant to have a big solid roller and Dommy/-3 and be set in an A-body race car like yours....it kind of wound-up slightly de-tuned and in the Charger after one too many 'barley pops'

Is your block Girdled? mine's not that's why I didn't take it to the full limit of my heads potential.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 02:22 PM

Quote:

I tested it on the Studka dyno that Rodneys now runs , the motor had a set of Eddy RPM CNC ported by MCH that flowed 319 CFM at .600 on Jeffs bench, six pak intake and carbs on OR pump gas. The best pulls resulted in 718 Hp at 5800 RPMs and 744 Ft Lbs at around 4500 to 4800 RPM.

I decided to change the heads to a set of Indy 40-1 CNC ported by MCH that flowed right at 370 CFM at .700 lift and a Indy 400-3 intake with a Summit two inch cloverleaf phenolic spacer.

Comp Cams solid roller with 260 @.050 intake with .420 lobe lift, 266 @.050 exhaust with .409 lobe lift. Harland Sharp 1.6 rockers
The 440-1 heads have 8 cc smaller chambers so the new compression ratio is now 10.84 to 1 versus 10.29 to 1 before

I think the head/intake change will give big results.

Guess +80 hp. But on a different dyno, all bets are off.

What header specs?
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 02:37 PM

My guess is 828 hp!
Posted By: Old School

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 02:42 PM

735hp 675tq
Posted By: poisondart2

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 03:06 PM

751 HP @ 6700
Posted By: tboomer

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 04:35 PM

Cab...Can't wait for results! That cam is almost identical to the one in my 512...
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 05:02 PM

Not good at guessing these things but would hope for at least 50-60 more hp/tq. Good luck either way.
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 05:19 PM

760 hp pops into my head. Hope you get more. For a reference, 760 hp to me would produce 9.20 ET at 146 mph in a 3,000 lb package, at sea level.
Posted By: RAMM

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 05:29 PM

Quote:

735hp 675tq



I'm with OldSchool, Somewhere around the 740 hp and 670-682 tq marks. J.Rob
Posted By: Boosted

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 06:04 PM

720ish hp... The heads flow more but at more lift... If you went with a taller cam then I can see that you are going to get th emost out of those heads...
Posted By: Harley

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 06:35 PM

The number that pops out to me is the 718 hp with a ported eddy head on pump gas.
Posted By: Twin Turbo Mower

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 08:27 PM

780 hp @ 6800

720 tq @ 5400
Posted By: moparniac

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 08:59 PM

I have 540 CI/440-1 CNC/ 11 to 1 compression on pump gas / 269@50 .430 lobe cam @ 1.65 rockers! Im curious to your numbers... Ill guess yours a 705HP@6500
Posted By: AndyF

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/27/10 11:42 PM

My 514 with EZ heads is making a little more than 800 hp with a 440-3 intake and a 1150 carb. But it has some "good" parts on it which pick up the power. Be interesting to compare the dynos sometime to see how the numbers stack up. I can probably bring the 514 over the mountain sometime in the spring.
Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/28/10 12:28 AM

hey, cab, did someone reverse the "s" and "d" keys on your keyboard?
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/28/10 07:28 AM

Quote:

The number that pops out to me is the 718 hp with a ported eddy head on pump gas.

Big fingers and old age is a bear I go back and read post that I had made earlier and proof read them before posting and find all kinds of spelling errors Now to the update. I made the trip to Klamath with the motor and four different carbs to test, we made 15 pulls, tested all the carbs and another air cleaner. The magnetic pick up in the distributor died around 3:00 PM so that put a crimp on testing some what Luckily the dyno shop had a stocker that I could use and ended up getting all the carbs tested The motor had two oil leaks, embarrasing as all heck All test where done with OR pump gas bought three weeks ago for the race in Mission, B.C. I forgot to go get fresh fuel so I ended up using what I had The best pull was the third pull after warming the motor up and resetting the valves, had one tight one ) I ran a six inch high by 16 inch wide K&N air cleaner on that pull using the Holley 9375 HP, it made 713 Ft. lbs at 4800 RPM and 775 HP at 6500 RPM. Next we put the Holley 9375 that has been modified and converted to annular boosters, it lost power Best of 701 Ft. lbs at 4600 RPM and 742 HP at 6400 RPM BSFC varied from.354 to .410, AFR varioed from 12.36 to 12.92 on the worst side of the two tried a K&N Pro Flow air cleaner assembly on that carb and the other two also, it help this carb some, 712 Ft. Lbs at 4800 RPM and 750 HP at 6500 RPM Next was a regular Holley 9375 non HP with stock boosters jetted to stock specs, it made 714 Ft. Lbs at 4700 RPM and 762 HP at 6500 RPM, we where stopping all of the pulls at 6500 RPM. The next stock Holley 9375, one of them has been modified some in the past by person unknown. I did try to make all the pasages and bleed holes the same diameter on both of these carbs so the results are probally due to me not knowing what and where some of those changes where made like inside the metering blocks The last carb.(the mate for the tunnel ram motor) made 703 Ft. Lbbs. at 4700 RPM and 743 HP at 6300 and 6500 RPM. I then added a bottle of Pro Blend and got 704 Ft lbs at both 4700 and 4800 RPM and 748 HP at 6500 RPM. The last pull was to 7000 RPM and it made 708 Ft. Lbs at 4600 RPM and 753 HP at 6500 RPM and 749 HP at 7000 RPM, maybe the Pro Blend is worth something all in all I am very happy with the results, now to put it back in the car after fixing the pesky valley cover leak Carl, I'll try and bring the dyno sheets by your shop so you can see how the information is presented on the DTS dyno sheets. Man do I wish this iste had spell check Fat, fast fingers do make errors
Posted By: Twin Turbo Mower

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/28/10 08:58 AM

Nice numbers. I was pretty close on my guess.
Posted By: moparniac

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/28/10 09:22 AM

I must be making about 775HP then
Posted By: Streetwize

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/28/10 01:26 PM

Quote:

I must be making about 775HP then




Me too Naah, I figure I'm right around 730 at ~6200 with the 2D but should show good bit more torque at and below 4200, I've gotta pull a big B body with 3.54 gears....Now I Gotta find somebody to mod my intake for a dommy now... or throw an SV1 on that 337 that I have laying around (too lazy to port match :) think:

Great results, Cab ...I missed by 10 but that was lost in your 'makeshift' distributor mods . I'm thinking the 718 out of the E-heads on your old combo must've been a little bit on the "happy" side, I'd have figured your old combo would make about 650-660 on that same dyno.
Posted By: tboomer

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/28/10 02:45 PM

Some great info.Cab! I would love to have my 512 on a dyno...
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/28/10 03:08 PM

Quote:

760 hp pops into my head. Hope you get more. For a reference, 760 hp to me would produce 9.20 ET at 146 mph in a 3,000 lb package, at sea level.


"it made 714 Ft. Lbs at 4700 RPM and 762 HP at 6500 RPM,"
Hey, I'm within 2 hp
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/28/10 04:56 PM

Nice numbers and call Greg(superformance gaskets) on here about his vc gaskets they solved my leaks. Were the afr`s in that range you mentioned on all carbs and did you tweek em at all?
Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/28/10 06:14 PM

Quote:

Carl, I'll try and bring the dyno sheets by your shop so you can see how the information is presented on the DTS dyno sheets.

yes! i'd love to see them. see you here!
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/28/10 09:07 PM

I was tired and in a hurry last night, I left the house at 5:30 AM and got home after 9;00 PM and had to unload the motor and parts in the rain so I was not focus on the details. The motor had a miss between 5400 and 5600 RPm on every pull, I switch plug wires around and ended up checking every one of them with ohm meter, nothing found Installed new plugs, Champion RC9YC like the ones that where in it, change distribuotr cap and rotor and four carbs. No positve results Are any of you guys running the Indy 400-3 inatke having or heard of that intake making a motor miss? One of the dyno guys said they had seen that on a SB Ford motor with a nice looking Chineses import single plane intake make the motor miss like mine was That motor with the six pak and all the other motors I've dyno tested have not had a miss like this I had a similar miss in my old stocker the last year I ran the car, I couldn't fid or identify the cause, I sold the car with the miss and the new owner installed a set of spiral wound spark plug wires and that cured it Looking back I had installed a new MSD 7 box in the car at the beginning of the year, I had used a MSD 404B the year before, and I had installed a new set of Moroso spark plug wires with stainless cores, evidently the new 7 boxes dod't like the solid core wires. My 518 motor has a set of Moroso 8MM spiral wound race wires for the new MSD boxes like the dyno uses, it is a Digital seven non programmable. I had a MSD7AL2 box and coil with me but it would have been a major wiring project to hook it up so I didn't Any suggestions on the cause of the miss
Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/28/10 09:40 PM

did the underside of the aircleaner lid look like it had been spattered with fuel?
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/29/10 01:55 AM

Quote:

did the underside of the aircleaner lid look like it had been spattered with fuel?

I didn't notice it when changing carbs, if it was there it was not a lot I had to look at the center section of the Profile airt cleaner center element each time I change the carbs. so probally not
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/29/10 02:35 AM

Quote:

it is a Digital seven non programmable. I had a MSD7AL2 box and coil with me but it would have been a major wiring project to hook it up so I didn't Any suggestions on the cause of the miss

If you were running a distributor with magnetic pickup (MSD) and an alternator near it, the EMI could have been picked up by the Digital box. That seems like a low rpm for that, however. Turning off the alternator (remove belt, etc) is an easy test for this. Both the distributor pickup and the wire from the distributor to the ignition box can pick up the magnetic interference from the alternator.
Posted By: Jeremiah

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/29/10 02:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

did the underside of the aircleaner lid look like it had been spattered with fuel?

I didn't notice it when changing carbs, if it was there it was not a lot I had to look at the center section of the Profile airt cleaner center element each time I change the carbs. so probally not



Thanks for sharing Cab! Hmmm...I wonder who would have a fresh drum of fuel, mopar big block distributors/parts, and holley tune up parts galore in little old Klamath Falls?
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/29/10 03:07 AM

Quote:

Quote:

it is a Digital seven non programmable. I had a MSD7AL2 box and coil with me but it would have been a major wiring project to hook it up so I didn't Any suggestions on the cause of the miss

If you were running a distributor with magnetic pickup (MSD) and an alternator near it, the EMI could have been picked up by the Digital box. That seems like a low rpm for that, however. Turning off the alternator (remove belt, etc) is an easy test for this. Both the distributor pickup and the wire from the distributor to the ignition box can pick up the magnetic interference from the alternator.

No alternator on this motor during testing,the shop uses a battery charger to keep the battery voltage up. I was using a 12V Mr Gasket belt drive water pump drive for dyno testing instead of a V belt Jeremaih, I thought about calling you during the day to see if you would want to come by but I didn't have your number, sorry Maybe next time. I know better to not take extra gaskets, exhaust, intakes, rocker covers and a oil pan gasket, shame on me
Posted By: Jeremiah

Re: What will it make, 518 pump gas low deck - 10/29/10 05:11 AM

No problem Cab, I was just ribbing you. I'll PM you my number. Enter it into your cell phone in case you need something next trip. I'd also be interested in seeing what my QF 1050-AN does on one of your carb tests.
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