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B vs A body Cal tracks

Posted By: Moparnut426

B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/15/10 03:15 AM

So are the B body cal tracs a lot different than the A bodie. i know the front segment is i think longet, but will the rear of the spring, and the front bar work on my demon. I have a set laying around and am wondering.

Kasey
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/15/10 04:03 AM

No.

The force bar is shorter on the A's by 2". Same as the front segment length difference.

If you are talking about the mono springs. I have no knowledge of them as I never used them. Best to call travis and ask.
Posted By: joshking440

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/15/10 04:17 AM

FYI, im going to be going to a set of 69 camaro springs and caltrac bars because both front and rear segments are longer. It is a true advantage in a leaf spring car!!
Posted By: Ari440

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/15/10 04:23 AM

is a camaro and nova the same length in the front


changes the instant center of the car using more levrage to plant the tires down
Posted By: scatpacktom

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/15/10 09:31 AM

Why is a longer leaf spring a advantage?
Posted By: mshred

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/15/10 08:47 PM

Quote:

FYI, im going to be going to a set of 69 camaro springs and caltrac bars because both front and rear segments are longer. It is a true advantage in a leaf spring car!!



can you give us more info on this? i just bought caltracs and installed them but never heard of this
Posted By: joshking440

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/15/10 08:56 PM

It helps with leverage and for some reason is helps with axle wrap more than the shorter a-body design. This is another Mopar guys idea, im really just coping him.....
Posted By: E-85 408 DART

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/20/10 09:20 PM

Quote:

It helps with leverage and for some reason is helps with axle wrap more than the shorter a-body design. This is another Mopar guys idea, im really just coping him.....


has anybody talked with calvert about this ?? The theory sounds good . but does it work ??? Anybody useing the longer springs have any pics/feedback??
Posted By: topside

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 12:07 AM

1st-gen Camaros/Firebirds & '68-'74 Novas, Omegas, Apollos & Venturas use the same suspension design; 2nd-gen Camaros & Firebirds ditto for '75-up Nova & etc. In GM lingo, Camaro & Firebird are F-bodies, Nova & etc X bodies.
I can see the longer bar having more leverage, but the longer front spring segment would seem to be more prone to flex at the same thickness/arch as a shorter one. It would be interesting to see what John Calvert has to say.
Posted By: Torred

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 01:56 AM

I asked about using the 20” front segments with extended and offset hangers on my EBody and Travis said that a 22” front segment would be better. Being that the car would have less body separation, wind-up or something like that.
Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 03:44 AM

Quote:

FYI, im going to be going to a set of 69 camaro springs and caltrac bars because both front and rear segments are longer. It is a true advantage in a leaf spring car!!


Gotta call ya on this one, unless you know more than Chassis guru Dave Morgan
Why would you put inferior leaf springs on your Mopar.
Mopar put way more effort and technology in there leaf spring design.
Dave Morgan in his Chassis manual quote
Quote:

only leaf springs worth mentioning was design by Chrysler

Posted By: Pat7272

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 03:53 AM

Quote:

Gotta call ya on this one, unless you know more than Chassis guru Dave Morgan
Why would you put inferior leaf springs on your Mopar.
Mopar put way more effort and technology in there leaf spring design.
Dave Morgan in his Chassis manual quote
Quote:

only leaf springs worth mentioning was design by Chrysler





You know that caltrac setups use an aftermarket mono-leaf spring right? Not the factory leaf..
Posted By: enelson

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 04:12 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Gotta call ya on this one, unless you know more than Chassis guru Dave Morgan
Why would you put inferior leaf springs on your Mopar.
Mopar put way more effort and technology in there leaf spring design.
Dave Morgan in his Chassis manual quote
Quote:

only leaf springs worth mentioning was design by Chrysler





You know that caltrac setups use an aftermarket mono-leaf spring right? Not the factory leaf..



This would also be a good idea for me in hindsight, my caltrac'd car with drag radials rub the front of the wheelwells on big bumps, I'd love to have the wheel a bit further back... This is due to my bigger tire and nothing to do with caltracs but I'd like the clearance...

If bolting in a mono from a camaro and calvert will provide the right size bar it sounds like a trick setup for those wanting to run bigger tires as well...
Posted By: joshking440

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 04:23 AM

Quote:

Quote:

FYI, im going to be going to a set of 69 camaro springs and caltrac bars because both front and rear segments are longer. It is a true advantage in a leaf spring car!!


Gotta call ya on this one, unless you know more than Chassis guru Dave Morgan
Why would you put inferior leaf springs on your Mopar.
Mopar put way more effort and technology in there leaf spring design.
Dave Morgan in his Chassis manual quote
Quote:

only leaf springs worth mentioning was design by Chrysler





your not calling me on anything.... I know that the only changed made to a particular car was what I mentioned above and it 60' better then it ever had in its life and ran it the 7's for the first time. It is also the only difference in rear suspensions between an a-body and some brand x stuff which has historically been faster on leaf springs then any other mopar on the planet. I dont know who dave morgan is, but I would liek to know what year that book was written
Posted By: joshking440

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 04:25 AM

Quote:

Quote:

FYI, im going to be going to a set of 69 camaro springs and caltrac bars because both front and rear segments are longer. It is a true advantage in a leaf spring car!!


Gotta call ya on this one, unless you know more than Chassis guru Dave Morgan
Why would you put inferior leaf springs on your Mopar.
Mopar put way more effort and technology in there leaf spring design.
Dave Morgan in his Chassis manual quote
Quote:

only leaf springs worth mentioning was design by Chrysler





Hate to tell you this but there is not a fast radial car in the world on a super stock spring buddy
Posted By: scatpacktom

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 04:30 AM

Quote:

I asked about using the 20” front segments with extended and offset hangers on my EBody and Travis said that a 22” front segment would be better. Being that the car would have less body separation, wind-up or something like that.



How does a leaf spring know what kind of car it is in? So by this reasoning a "A body" with cal-tracs has some kind of ill effects?
Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 04:46 AM

Quote:

I dont know who dave morgan is, but I would liek to know what year that book was written


OK
what ever, i disagree totally that Chevy has a better leaf spring design......buddy
You actually made me laugh, asking who Dave Morgan is, are you being serious???
No really?
It doesnt matter to me what you do your car. But I might have just held off telling other people to try it..
I have run Cal tracks, on about every body style in the Mopar family, including Mopar pickup trucks..
They work. plain and simple, no need to change leaf springs, or design that was my point
Sounds like a a bunch of trouble, and in the end you still have leaf springs under the car.

Dave Morgan wrote the Chassis Handbook, the bible of suspension tuning and theories. He travels this Country making a living by speaking about chassis tuning, and his classes are always Sold Out.
http://www.davemorganseminars.com/default.asp
Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 04:52 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I asked about using the 20” front segments with extended and offset hangers on my EBody and Travis said that a 22” front segment would be better. Being that the car would have less body separation, wind-up or something like that.



How does a leaf spring know what kind of car it is in? So by this reasoning a "A body" with cal-tracs has some kind of ill effects?


The front segment is a diff length. From the center of the axle to the front hanger is diff then, so this would then require a diff length torsion tube. (the tube that connects the front segment piviot point/bracket to the spring perch shock bracket)
Posted By: Pat7272

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 04:54 AM

Quote:

I disagree totally that Chevy has a better leaf spring design......buddy



You're not understanding - the only difference between the Caltracs for Mopars vs the caltracs for chevys is their length.

Nobody is talking about putting chevy leafs on a mopar. We're talking about putting chevy LENGTH caltracs (longer) on a mopar.
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 05:03 AM


The front segment is a diff length. From the center of the axle to the front hanger is diff then, so this would then require a diff length torsion tube. (the tube that connects the front segment piviot point/bracket to the spring perch shock bracket)





I had the 20" (A body???) originally with my SS springs when I went to mono spring Cal said to go 22 inch front segment and was going to sell me the tube/bar by itself but I sold those cal tracs to a friend with ss springs and just bought new 22 cal trac system.

Posted By: Ari440

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 05:04 AM

the front segment must be the same, leaf and bar

but on a chevy its longer ( dont know how much more )

giving you more leverage than a caltrac bar that 20 inches on a A body


JOSH you have this setup on your car now ?
Posted By: E-85 408 DART

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 07:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

FYI, im going to be going to a set of 69 camaro springs and caltrac bars because both front and rear segments are longer. It is a true advantage in a leaf spring car!!


Gotta call ya on this one, unless you know more than Chassis guru Dave Morgan
Why would you put inferior leaf springs on your Mopar.
Mopar put way more effort and technology in there leaf spring design.
Dave Morgan in his Chassis manual quote
Quote:

only leaf springs worth mentioning was design by Chrysler





your not calling me on anything.... I know that the only changed made to a particular car was what I mentioned above and it 60' better then it ever had in its life and ran it the 7's for the first time. It is also the only difference in rear suspensions between an a-body and some brand x stuff which has historically been faster on leaf springs then any other mopar on the planet. I dont know who dave morgan is, but I would liek to know what year that book was written

the "Bible" was written in the early 90's, great book . Josh i'd love to see some pics if you have a 22" front segment . My thinking is if your moving your leafs to the frame and going to cal-tracs at the same time ,why not ??
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 10:05 AM

subscribed.
Posted By: joshking440

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 12:48 PM

Im not a suspension guru, I dont claim to be. What I do know is that the few mopar guys who go fast on caltracs in an abody all hit a wall at some point. The car just wont 60' any better for them. One guy in one instance compared the difference between some chevy stuff with similar horsepower and his ride, the difference was two fold, the spring is longer, both towards the front and the rear of the car.... this in-turn made the cal-track bar that much longer. The really helped with axle wrap....Im not sure if everyone is aware, but 1000-1500hp cars still have axle wrap issues and body seperation issues even with the best shocks. Turns out that putting the longer shock with the longer cal-trac helped this a lot! Maybe we can get Dave Morgan to chime in... or Monte Smith...Or Mike Roth....or someone else who can shed some light on the idea since I dont have all the big words to explain it properly
Posted By: joshking440

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 12:53 PM

Quote:

the front segment must be the same, leaf and bar

but on a chevy its longer ( dont know how much more )

giving you more leverage than a caltrac bar that 20 inches on a A body


JOSH you have this setup on your car now ?



Ari, I dont have the set up on my car yet. Its one of my winter mods im going to be making. The bar is just over 2"longer in the front and a bout an inch longer in the rear.

Leverage is a big thing, but axle rotation is so bad on an a-body because of how it rides thru the arc of travel on the suspension on a 20" spring.... I guess all im saying is John Calvert and guys with 7 second cars are both smarter than me....and I guess Dave Morgan is to
Posted By: joshking440

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 12:58 PM

Just a point of reference.....and why I was looking down this path...

My car doesnt run the hardest, or launch like an animal (yet) but with my wheelie bars set against the bumper, as high as they will go, when my car leaves the line the wheelie bar wheels hit the ground so hard that I have cracked both wheels....and they are not the cheap wheels
Posted By: fishy340

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 02:22 PM

josh why not use a split leaf that cal trac sells..there lighter,you can lower or lift the car,etc..my friends mopar 60fts @ 120 with em
Posted By: blown572dart

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 02:35 PM

Quote:

Im not a suspension guru, I dont claim to be. What I do know is that the few mopar guys who go fast on caltracs in an abody all hit a wall at some point. The car just wont 60' any better for them. One guy in one instance compared the difference between some chevy stuff with similar horsepower and his ride, the difference was two fold, the spring is longer, both towards the front and the rear of the car.... this in-turn made the cal-track bar that much longer. The really helped with axle wrap....Im not sure if everyone is aware, but 1000-1500hp cars still have axle wrap issues and body seperation issues even with the best shocks. Turns out that putting the longer shock with the longer cal-trac helped this a lot! Maybe we can get Dave Morgan to chime in... or Monte Smith...Or Mike Roth....or someone else who can shed some light on the idea since I dont have all the big words to explain it properly






Always











Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 04:12 PM

So I guess Im not gonna be able to just buy a new front segment from calvert, and put the caltrac system from the charger to the Demon. Maybee Ill put it up on here for sale, and buy a new set. Or try and find someone who will trade me.

All I know is the car is not gonna have this set up on it for the street. I will however keep the coil over front end and tube k member under it for the rack and pinion steering.

Kasey
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 07:44 PM

Quote:

So I guess Im not gonna be able to just buy a new front segment from calvert, and put the caltrac system from the charger to the Demon. Maybee Ill put it up on here for sale, and buy a new set. Or try and find someone who will trade me.

All I know is the car is not gonna have this set up on it for the street. I will however keep the coil over front end and tube k member under it for the rack and pinion steering.

Kasey



You could cut the bar and weld a 2" piece into it???
Posted By: joshking440

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/21/10 09:44 PM

Quote:

josh why not use a split leaf that cal trac sells..there lighter,you can lower or lift the car,etc..my friends mopar 60fts @ 120 with em



I use a calvert split mono leaf on my car now. They work ok for my current application, but they do allow a large amount of axle wrap.
Posted By: Torred

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/22/10 12:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I asked about using the 20” front segments with extended and offset hangers on my EBody and Travis said that a 22” front segment would be better. Being that the car would have less body separation, wind-up or something like that.



How does a leaf spring know what kind of car it is in? So by this reasoning a "A body" with cal-tracs has some kind of ill effects?


The front segment is a diff length. From the center of the axle to the front hanger is diff then, so this would then require a diff length torsion tube. (the tube that connects the front segment piviot point/bracket to the spring perch shock bracket)



Thanks Bob
Posted By: dennismopar73

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/22/10 01:33 AM

raced a 67 coronet with supe spring new
and now with cal tracks with monos
as for increase in 60 nope didnt happen
as for more 60 nope didnt happen
it made it leave more straight
not any better 60
Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: B vs A body Cal tracks - 10/22/10 01:53 AM

I had a cal track system on a 69 Coronet, and built a 87 Dakota. Of coarse the bars were wrong. I just cut the tubes, found a piece of thick schedule tubing and inserted the tube attached both ends, tacked them along the thread engagement I wanted and heli-arched them up.
The next winter I pulled all that out, went with a dana 60 ladder bar setup when it rolled out the next spring.
While your at it slip a large nut over the tube and weld it in the middle, makes adjustment a whole bunch more easy.
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