Moparts

Well I found the problem...

Posted By: dartman366

Well I found the problem... - 09/25/10 09:20 PM

..and it appears to be a fairly easy fix, snapped the tranny pump drive tang's right off the pump, bad thing is now I have to order new pump gears from A@A and tear the pump back out, the good new's is,,I make enough horsepower to break thing's now.
Posted By: BPE

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/25/10 09:41 PM

Good news and an easy fix. Maybe over the winter you can check out the engine.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/25/10 09:44 PM

The question is how did you break the drive tangs off I broke my first ones not knowing that the converter needed to drop down into the trans two times,, not one I had a thrust bearing break in my old ten inch converter this summer and it started eating itself up, it made noise and I thought it was the trans, long story short the parts flailing around in the converter made so much trash go into the trans it ended up starting to eat the drive tangs up in the pump. We found that when we took the pump apart to clean it. the tangs where eaten up at the bottom nearest to the gear IHTHs
Posted By: dartman366

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/25/10 10:34 PM

Quote:

The question is how did you break the drive tangs off I broke my first ones not knowing that the converter needed to drop down into the trans two times,, not one I had a thrust bearing break in my old ten inch converter this summer and it started eating itself up, it made noise and I thought it was the trans, long story short the parts flailing around in the converter made so much trash go into the trans it ended up starting to eat the drive tangs up in the pump. We found that when we took the pump apart to clean it. the tangs where eaten up at the bottom nearest to the gear IHTHs


I am going to go back thru the tranny and see if there is any reason other than fatigue since I am going to have to pull the pump anyway and I will send the converter back to have jason check it altho the wear pattern ( or lack of) on the hub looked consistant around it,,,,I guess the 5900 rpm stall is starting to show some of my weaknesses.
Posted By: Butch

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/25/10 11:17 PM

Someone at the track mentioned that it might be a pump problem. I think it was Russ. I hope it's just the pump.

Butch
Posted By: 340RICK

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/26/10 12:16 AM

Glad to here ya found the problem Bill
Posted By: G-Money1320

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/26/10 01:04 AM

Good deal on finding the problem without any major catastrophies. Now your going to have to spend the big now that your in the big leagues Always good to see you and the rest of the Ohio clan.
Posted By: DoubleD

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/26/10 01:12 AM

Playing with them at top end will do that - usually happens when you get off the throttle then back on quickly - but with old OEM parts it can happen anytime - after all those pump tangs probably have seen many miles already.
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/26/10 01:15 AM

Starter kick back will often break the tangs.
Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/26/10 01:19 AM

Quote:

.. the good new's is,,I make enough horsepower to break thing's now.






Don't get to excited.

Take my word for it, it doesn't take much



Glad you found it and I hope it's all you find
Posted By: dartman366

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/26/10 02:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

.. the good new's is,,I make enough horsepower to break thing's now.






Don't get to excited.

Take my word for it, it doesn't take much



Glad you found it and I hope it's all you find



Thank's alot,,, now my bubble has been burst.











Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/26/10 02:06 AM

I do my best
Posted By: dartman366

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/26/10 02:07 AM

Quote:

Playing with them at top end will do that - usually happens when you get off the throttle then back on quickly - but with old OEM parts it can happen anytime - after all those pump tangs probably have seen many miles already.


no playing Dave, just a banzai pass after seeing the big red at the start, figured I would run it out and use it for a TT for the gamblers race I intended on getting in since I was out of the 10oh race because of a stinkin' -.001 red.
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/26/10 02:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Playing with them at top end will do that - usually happens when you get off the throttle then back on quickly - but with old OEM parts it can happen anytime - after all those pump tangs probably have seen many miles already.


no playing Dave, just a banzai pass after seeing the big red at the start, figured I would run it out and use it for a TT for the gamblers race I intended on getting in since I was out of the 10oh race because of a stinkin' -.001 red.





you're a member of the 00x Red club too ?

Posted By: instigator

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/26/10 02:53 AM

Breaking tranny parts is Cool!


AS long as it dont tear up your motor!
Posted By: dartman366

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/26/10 02:56 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Playing with them at top end will do that - usually happens when you get off the throttle then back on quickly - but with old OEM parts it can happen anytime - after all those pump tangs probably have seen many miles already.


no playing Dave, just a banzai pass after seeing the big red at the start, figured I would run it out and use it for a TT for the gamblers race I intended on getting in since I was out of the 10oh race because of a stinkin' -.001 red.





you're a member of the 00x Red club too ?




unfortunately,,,,,,yes.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/26/10 05:26 PM

That happened to me once. The old factory part just gave up the ghost after 40 years. I put new pump gears ($30) in and haven't had any reoccurrance after years of racing. There are also the high dollar pump gears ($150 ?) for even more strength.
Posted By: dartman366

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/27/10 01:33 AM

Quote:

That happened to me once. The old factory part just gave up the ghost after 40 years. I put new pump gears ($30) in and haven't had any reoccurrance after years of racing. There are also the high dollar pump gears ($150 ?) for even more strength.


I am not disapointed in it's failure, just the timing, I expected it to happen sometime as factory parts were not intended to take this type of abuse,,as far as the high dollar high strength gears they are $225.00.
Posted By: PC-CHARGER

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/27/10 02:23 AM

There are at least a couple different pump gears out there besides the stockers. A&A makes a larger lug set out of 4340 steel and is probably the one you mentioned at $225. TCS also makes a "Max Lug" set but I think they are made of the same steel as the stock ones but they have a larger drive lug. These are $105.00 ( http://www.tcsproducts.com/details.html?id=478 ) A respected Minnesota trans and engine builder told me he prefers the regular steel units over the 4340 because he found that the 4340 gears tended to wear the pump body more.
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/27/10 05:24 AM

Quote:

Starter kick back will often break the tangs.




Hmm help a friend of mine with tangs broke off last week he had some kick back last fall??? anyhow it's working good so far with complete pump and stator support out of another tranny!
maybe a aftermarket pump is in the cards for me next year they look like machine cast??
Posted By: prochamp

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/27/10 12:54 PM

the larger lug gears are not only stronger but they also fill the gap in the converter slots so there isn't alot of slop between the pump and converter which aids in not cracking the converter snout which 904's especially are prone to do.i don't know why the lugs aren't wider to begin with? kinda like why aren't 727 sprags riveted in like 904's from the factory?
Posted By: max_maniac

Re: Well I found the problem... - 09/27/10 04:56 PM

Quote:

Someone at the track mentioned that it might be a pump problem. I think it was Russ. I hope it's just the pump.

Butch





Yea I was the one that mentioned it because it happened to me about 3-4 years back. Just put in another old used pump and been going on it since. Dave is right ---- playing at the top end will break those off and I know thats why mine broke. Glad to hear it was nothing major but yes the timing sure was off for when it happened.


Russ
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