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Need some constructive criticism...

Posted By: BB70DUSTER

Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 06:21 AM

So like everyone, I wanna go faster... heres my current combo, I have a good idea where I need to make changes, but would like more ideas... so here it is.

70 Duster, 3250 Lbs race weight, leaf spring, caltracs, ranchos, 10" tire, car hooks hard...
3.73 gear, 727, no trans brake (I leave on the bottle) converter is a 10", built for the NOS, engine is a 440 based 496" JE flat tops (10-1 comp), LY rods, steel crank, solid cam, .600 lift (w/1.6 T&D rockers) heads are unported, ootb Edelbrock RPMs, Victor intake (stock) and a 850 Holley DP carb... exhaust is hooker 2" fenderwell headers with 3" exhaust and flowmasters, Ive never ran it on motor, only on the bottle, runs consistant 6.20-6.23 @113 in the 1/8th, Nos system is a big shot with 82/91 jets, and 5.5PSI fuel pressure, I run it on the bottle with 100 octane...
So thats what I have, heres the kicker, I drive the car regularly on the street, on 91 octane pump gas, I have no intent of running it on motor only, Im a bottle baby, car was built around that... so lets hear it... Thanks in advance!

Attached picture 6195164-111111.jpg
Posted By: 2QUICK4U

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 07:28 AM

I DONT THINK THOSE LY RODS WILL LAST VERY LONG IF YOU AD MORE NOS,ID GO TO A BETTER ROD AND BETTER CYCLINDER HEAD.I MAY BE WRONG HERE,PUT A BLOWER ON IT.THAT MAY BE A CHEAPER WAY TO GO.IVE SEEN THIS CAR FOR SALE FOR SOME TIME.IF I WASNT LOOKING FOR A FULL TUBE AVENGER,ID BE LOOKING AT THIS CAR.
Posted By: moparguy7074

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 10:11 AM

Port the heads, bigger cam--roller, bigger carb.
Posted By: DragDart360

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 11:32 AM

Quote:

Port the heads, bigger cam--roller, bigger carb.



Posted By: 1badx

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 12:18 PM

Quote:

Port the heads, bigger cam--roller, bigger carb.



I agree. A roller cam would bring that engine to life.

What type of ignition are you running? Fuel system? I would also be keep an eye on the crank/main caps at that HP level with nitrous.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 12:46 PM

You could start w/ the smaller stuff first. At this level, I don't think the 3" flowmasters are helping. Try it w/o the mufflers, or swap to some straight through mufflers like Dynomax Ultra-Flows or Magnaflows.

I'd get an adapter and try a 1050 dominator on it like it sits.

After that I'd tear into the motor. Either port the Edelbrocks or step up to some ported Indy -1 heads. Change to a bigger solid roller spec'd to compliment the heads.
All along you're on borrowed time w/ those LY rods, but I'm sure you know that.
Posted By: smokinwoody

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 01:07 PM

sounds like the car is running pretty good for what it is...

if you want more and make it last..like everyone is saying, get rid of the LY rods before there is major carnage and more wasted money thrown at it...

while its down, have the heads ported and I would have em maxwedge ported along with the intake...have them flowed to know what direction to go with a new cam...seeing you like the squeeze, get a cam designed for it and the flow you'll be making...

then attack that rear..if thats an 8 3/4, it will need beefing or get a DANA with some 4.10's, 35 spline axles..spool is good but a drag on the street...maybe a locker

we all like that word..BULLET PROOF

we all try, just cost when building HORSEPOWER
Posted By: RedCharger

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 01:25 PM

I would look at replacing the rods and turbo it with a big single use a blow through carb setup to keep the costs down.
The NOS will help the turbo spool, keep all the other parts and it should haul !!

Just my two cents
Mike
Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 02:37 PM

The real question is; How fast do you want to go?

If it were me, and since you're a bottle baby, the cheapest thing would be to put a set of nice rods in it and fine tune your nitrous........82/91 jets.......and I'm assuming that's 82 nitrous and 91 fuel?......If so, you have quite a bit of room on the table in the tuneup........but I'm sure you have a stock block, so that's the next weakest link.......
Posted By: BB70DUSTER

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 02:42 PM

Quote:

What type of ignition are you running? Fuel system?


Ignition is a 6A box, has a single satge retard, Blaster 2 coil... have a 7AL2 thats going in soon...
Fuel system is a Magnafuel 300 on the engine side, modded holley blue on the oxide side, have a magna fuel 500 pump that may replace both very soon...
Posted By: BB70DUSTER

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 02:46 PM

Quote:

I DONT THINK THOSE LY RODS WILL LAST VERY LONG IF YOU AD MORE NOS,ID GO TO A BETTER ROD AND BETTER CYCLINDER HEAD.I MAY BE WRONG HERE,PUT A BLOWER ON IT.THAT MAY BE A CHEAPER WAY TO GO.IVE SEEN THIS CAR FOR SALE FOR SOME TIME.IF I WASNT LOOKING FOR A FULL TUBE AVENGER,ID BE LOOKING AT THIS CAR.

Im aware of everyones feelings on the rods, but Ive squeezed more on less... LOL Blower is out, I already got rid of it, besides I love the bottle hit... yeh, Ive thrown around selling the car, but have been firm, and havent tried very hard to sell...
Posted By: BB70DUSTER

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 02:52 PM

Quote:

You could start w/ the smaller stuff first. At this level, I don't think the 3" flowmasters are helping. Try it w/o the mufflers, or swap to some straight through mufflers like Dynomax Ultra-Flows or Magnaflows.

I'd get an adapter and try a 1050 dominator on it like it sits.




Chip, I tried a 1150HP on it, and had no gains, have never ran without mufflers because its a street car, BUT, I have been thinking of a exhaust change, I have some 2 3/8 pri Dawson headers, as well as a new set of pro-parts headers, and thinking of some 3 1/2 pipes, and possibly spin-techs (again because I already have them)
Posted By: BB70DUSTER

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 02:55 PM

Quote:

sounds like the car is running pretty good for what it is...



then attack that rear..if thats an 8 3/4, it will need beefing or get a DANA with some 4.10's, 35 spline axles..spool is good but a drag on the street...maybe a locker

we all like that word..BULLET PROOF




Thanks, I think it runs good for what it is too, just want more... Rear end is a 35 spline Dana 60 already, with a spool, 1350 yokes, 3 1/2" alum driveline, etc...
Posted By: BB70DUSTER

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 02:56 PM

Quote:

I would look at replacing the rods and turbo it with a big single use a blow through carb setup to keep the costs down.
The NOS will help the turbo spool, keep all the other parts and it should haul !!

Just my two cents
Mike


I WISH!!! Id love to turbo my car, just think its out of my price range...
Posted By: BB70DUSTER

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 02:59 PM

Quote:

The real question is; How fast do you want to go?

If it were me, and since you're a bottle baby, the cheapest thing would be to put a set of nice rods in it and fine tune your nitrous........82/91 jets.......and I'm assuming that's 82 nitrous and 91 fuel?......If so, you have quite a bit of room on the table in the tuneup........but I'm sure you have a stock block, so that's the next weakest link.......


Honestly, Id like to see low 9s or high 8s, and remain small tire on leafs, your correct on the jetting, its a by the book tune, Ive tried some NOS tuning and always end up back at square one because plug reading look lean if I take away any fuel... (either by pressure or jetting) But Id like to put more nitrous to it...
Posted By: BB70DUSTER

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 03:25 PM

So, sounds like everyone agrees, bigger heads, roller cam, and bigger carb? Any guesses as to how much ET gain I should expect? Im thinking Indy 440-1 heads, the 1150 carb I have, bigger exhaust, and still on the fence on a cam change...
Thanks so far, keep it coming!
Posted By: smokinwoody

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 03:37 PM

Quote:

So, sounds like everyone agrees, bigger heads, roller cam, and bigger carb? Any guesses as to how much ET gain I should expect? Im thinking Indy 440-1 heads, the 1150 carb I have, bigger exhaust, and still on the fence on a cam change...
Thanks so far, keep it coming!



my guess...with good flowing heads and CAM CHANGE and tune..there should be at least another 150hp ..that should drop you in the 5's..especialy with spray....be one quick street machine...

may want to consider E85 fuel too...Im going to switch over..

my 499 has good flowing heads and all the goodies for a good race engine but now I want to build something for the street using that engine...Im going to have the cam reground(roller) for better manners and use E85 since the compression is 12.8...should still make 700+ hp...in a 2500lb machine that ought to be fast enough

and NO NOS
Posted By: BB70DUSTER

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 06:36 PM

I thought about E-85, but theres still not many places in So Cal to buy it...
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 08:32 PM

Since you aren't worried about the rods, I'd try the exhaust system first b/c it's easy. Change mufflers, or run open headers just to see what happens. The bigger headers should help when you step up the spray. Since you're planning on more spray later on, I'd put the big headers on it now.

Next thing is definitely the heads. If it were me, I'd sell your Edelbrocks and get some ported Indy -1 heads from Dwayne Porter w/ a cam to match. I'd put that 1150 you have on it at the same time.
Just my
Posted By: BobR

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 09:10 PM

Run it as is until one of the rods let go then go from there with whatever's left.
Posted By: BB70DUSTER

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 09:31 PM

Quote:

Since you aren't worried about the rods, I'd try the exhaust system first b/c it's easy. Change mufflers, or run open headers just to see what happens. The bigger headers should help when you step up the spray. Since you're planning on more spray later on, I'd put the big headers on it now.

Next thing is definitely the heads. If it were me, I'd sell your Edelbrocks and get some ported Indy -1 heads from Dwayne Porter w/ a cam to match. I'd put that 1150 you have on it at the same time.
Just my


yeh, Im thinking head swap, put on the 1150 and the big headers...
Posted By: BB70DUSTER

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 09:35 PM

Quote:

Run it as is until one of the rods let go then go from there with whatever's left.

I was also told a cast crank, stock rodded, cast piston 400 (77 block) couldnt handle nitrous, yet I ran a 275 shot with pump gas on that 400 for YEARS... How is a china I beam rod (like cat, scat, eagle, 440 source) any better than a LY rod? Spending a grand (or more) on rods just isnt in the budget right now...
Posted By: PUNK

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 09:47 PM

An overseas I-beam is just as bad as an LY rod in my opinion. A set of Overseas H-beams such as the Scat H-beam with good bolts doesnt cost anywhere near $1000. I would step that up for sure. The overseas "I" beams have been witnessed by myself in several peoples engine completely and catastrophically fail.....BIG TIME. Thats expensive. Ive witnessed overseas "I" beam rods destroy a Merlin Block, A Mopar MEGA block and a SB Ford Dart Block. Not GOOD. Ive seen several BB mopars get wasted by LY rods as well.
Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 10:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Run it as is until one of the rods let go then go from there with whatever's left.

I was also told a cast crank, stock rodded, cast piston 400 (77 block) couldnt handle nitrous, yet I ran a 275 shot with pump gas on that 400 for YEARS... How is a china I beam rod (like cat, scat, eagle, 440 source) any better than a LY rod? Spending a grand (or more) on rods just isnt in the budget right now...



What did the car run with and without the 275 shot??? (ET and speeds)..... (If you're running out of the box jetting, you, typically, aren't really getting that much HP )

Biggest problem with stock rods IMHO is that you typically have no idea what they've already been through, whereas with new China stuff, you know it's new.......
Posted By: BB70DUSTER

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 10:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Run it as is until one of the rods let go then go from there with whatever's left.

I was also told a cast crank, stock rodded, cast piston 400 (77 block) couldnt handle nitrous, yet I ran a 275 shot with pump gas on that 400 for YEARS... How is a china I beam rod (like cat, scat, eagle, 440 source) any better than a LY rod? Spending a grand (or more) on rods just isnt in the budget right now...




What did the car run with and without the 275 shot??? (ET and speeds).....

Biggest problem with stock rods IMHO is that you typically have no idea what they've already been through, whereas with new China stuff, you know it's new.......


Well the 400 with the 275 shot was good for 10.30s on the bottle... 12.50 without, that was a 9-1 400, loose as hell converter, 3.91 gear all in the same duster...
My LY rods were checked, resized, and balanced, and have good rod bolts, pistons are fairly light being JEs, I actually bought the short block, otherwise I would have put aftermaket rods in it, but so far so good, also I dont rev it to the moon, on the bottle I shift around 6000...
Posted By: BB70DUSTER

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/14/10 10:28 PM

Quote:

An overseas I-beam is just as bad as an LY rod in my opinion. A set of Overseas H-beams such as the Scat H-beam with good bolts doesnt cost anywhere near $1000. I would step that up for sure. The overseas "I" beams have been witnessed by myself in several peoples engine completely and catastrophically fail.....BIG TIME. Thats expensive. Ive witnessed overseas "I" beam rods destroy a Merlin Block, A Mopar MEGA block and a SB Ford Dart Block. Not GOOD. Ive seen several BB mopars get wasted by LY rods as well.


Im sure its a discussion on its own, but why is a H beam stronger than a I beam? if that was true, why do all vehicle manufactures use a I beam? Also Aluminum rods are all I beam (that Ive seen) and good rods (oliver, carrillo, Manley) usually seem to be I beam as well????
Posted By: mopar_to_ya

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/15/10 02:40 AM

I would start by getting rid of the fenderwell headers. I think you would see a big difference with a custom set with a good collector.

Then of course you can always lighten it up!
Posted By: n20mstr

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/15/10 02:54 AM

at 3600lbs with a 446 and unported 440-1 i went 9.0's

I would say what will wake your engine up is a
dominator
Ported heads Even the Edelbrocks)
roller cam spec by the person porting the heads
Tune the nitrous system a little (lean and mean possible progressive and a little more jet)
KEEP IT OUT OF DETONATION...the block may live but the caps are gonna walk all over LOL

the LY rods will not last, get a set of alum rods in there

DO that above and you got an 8 sec street car for sure
Posted By: BB70DUSTER

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/15/10 05:23 AM

Quote:



DO that above and you got an 8 sec street car for sure


thats what Im talking about...
Posted By: 493_DART

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/15/10 10:35 AM

send a pm to bad1970dust .

he runs a 10.5 tire duster , plates, exhaust , 572" , nitrous , etc.. my memory is fuzzy but i think i saw it go 8.0x at kcir a couple years ago.

Great dude and a LOT of knowledge in that head of his


I know hes really busy with a new shop but hope he will chime in , or pm him like i said...
Posted By: BB70DUSTER

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/15/10 06:08 PM

So who has the best deal on Indy's???
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Need some constructive criticism... - 09/15/10 07:29 PM

imo, cheapest route would be, open up the edelbrocks to MW size. run the mopar 337 intake that you can buy for $250 and i think you said you have a Dom already. i tried the nitrous jetting like that and according to the racing calcs i got a 85hp increase on a 150hp jetting. swapped the jets around and never made it down the track because it was making that much more power. i have 3 inch exhaust out the back
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